Vatican astonished at Belgian police raid

[MargueriteBee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100625/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_belgium

VATICAN CITY – The Vatican said Friday it was astonished and outraged that Belgian police investigating priestly sex abuse had conducted raids that also targeted the graves of two archbishops.

The Vatican summoned the Belgian ambassador to the Holy See to convey its anger over the raids, which also included the home and offices of the retired archbishop of Belgium. The ambassador was called in for a meeting with the Vatican's foreign minister.

In a statement, the Vatican said any sinful and criminal abuse of minors from members of the church must be condemned and repeated that there is a need for justice and amends.

But it added, "The Secretariat of State also expresses astonishment at the way in which the search took place." It expressed "outrage over the violation of the tombs."

On Thursday, police raided the home and former office of former Archbishop Godfried Danneels, taking documents and Danneels' personal computer. Police and prosecutors did not say if Danneels was suspected of abuse himself or simply had records pertaining to allegations against another person. He was not questioned.

Investigators also opened the graves of archbishops in the St. Rombouts Cathedral in Mechlin, north of Brussels, looking for possibly incriminating documents, said Jean-Marc Meilleur, spokesman for the Brussels public prosecutor.


I say, "Yeah for the Belgian police".

[Ailée]

Wow.

Hey, thank you for the news, MargueriteBee.

And thank you for your signature :yo:

[Baelsfire]

I wonder what they found in the graves?! Two grumpy vampyres?! I think the Vatican's position of expressing outrage over digging up graves rather than the alleged organised ring of child abuse and sexual molestation (and implied subsequent cover-up) says a ton about their priorities and morality.

[Mulder]

I have to agree with the Vactican - digging up graves to get evidence for sex abuse sounds absurd - (dead men tell no tales). I really think the Police in Belgium should spend their time searching pedophiles who are still alive, or persuing cases where there is proof (e.g. many informants, some proof - like pics or movies of abuse). So there will be convictions.
However, the Vatican has covered up this abuse for too long, so its good to see the Police are doing something (no matter how mis-guided).

[MargueriteBee]

I wonder what documents they were after.

Your welcome Ailee.

[Baelsfire]

digging up corpses (harms no one, possibly uncovers buried evidence)
organised and systematically covered-up child molestation within a religious institution (does unlimited perpetuate harm)

Simple question:

Which do you think is more outrageous?

[Lost Soul]

Betcha there's birthmarks that the victim could not have attested to unless the (deceased) culprits were undressed. Finding the birthmarks (or tattoos) would add credibility to the victim's assertions.

[conk]

Short of murder, there can be no more egregious crime. Getting a young boy to submit to sexual advances under the cloak of religion is an abomination.

[Studeo]

Pope causes outrage for condemning church abuse raids in Belgium

Pope Benedict XVI 'I want to express … my sadness, in which, certain surprising and deplorable methods, searches were carried out,' says the pope. Photograph: Vincenzo Pinto/AFP

Groups representing the victims of clerical abuse tonight expressed outrage after the pope criticised raids on the Catholic church by Belgian police.

Last week, police raided the home of a retired bishop, opened the grave of at least one archbishop and detained Belgium's nine current serving bishops as they met, seizing their mobile phones and only releasing them after nine hours.

Pope Benedict described the raids by officers investigating abuse claims as "surprising and deplorable" and demanded that the church be allowed a role in inquiries into child molesters in its ranks.

In a message to the head of the Belgian bishops' conference, Monsignor André-Joseph Léonard, the pontiff condemned the raids and offered his support to the bishops "in this sad moment".

"I want to express, dear brother in the episcopate, as well as to all the bishops of Belgium, my closeness and solidarity in this moment of sadness, in which, with certain surprising and deplorable methods, searches were carried out," he said.

"I hope that justice will follow its course while guaranteeing the rights of individuals and institutions, respecting the rights of victims, [and] acknowledging those who undertake to collaborate with it."

The Vatican has also protested to Belgium's ambassador to the Holy See. Yesterday, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican secretary of state, said: "There are no precedents for this, not even under communist regimes."

But the raids were welcomed by the American clerical abuse victims group Snap. "Vatican officials who criticise the Belgian police raid of the Brussels church hierarchy should be ashamed of themselves," said Joelle Casteix of Snap. "While Roman church officials talk about stopping abuse, Belgian police officials take action to stop abuse."

As cases of abuse by priests have emerged throughout Europe this year, the Belgian church has apologised for failing to root out abusers in the past and promised a crackdown.

On Friday, the pope appointed Monsignor Jozef De Kesel as the bishop of Bruges to replace Roger Vangheluwe, 73, who resigned in April over abusing a boy. Vangheluwe was the first European bishop to step down after confessing to abuse.

As part of their investigation into recent claims of abuse, police last week drilled into the tombs of two archbishops at the cathedral in Mechelen, north of Brussels, using cameras to look for hidden documents, a church official said. Investigators said only one tomb had been opened.

Léonard condemned the raid as being inspired by "crime novels and the Da Vinci Code".

Police took documents and a computer from the home of his predecessor, Godfried Danneels, and seized documents from an independent panel investigating 500 cases of suspected abuse by priests.

After initially treating the abuse revelations emerging in Europe as a plot to discredit the church, Vatican officials have increasingly admitted the need for it to co-operate more closely with police.

But in his reaction to the Belgian raids, the pope stressed that abuse within the church needed to be handled by both civil and canon law, "respecting their reciprocal specificity and autonomy".

Avvenire, the newspaper of the Italian Bishops' Conference, went further, claiming the police investigation went "beyond the legitimate requirements of justice" and was the sign of a secular government's "desire to attack the church in its entirety" by a secular government.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/27/pope-causes-outrage-over-condemnation

Pope causes outrage for condemning church abuse raids in Belgium

[Anchor]

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

[jackovesk]

There are alot of people who contribute to this forum that have excellent intuitve insight.

If you take one Look at this picture tell me what you see?

http://everythingbutamericasucks.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/pope.jpg

All I see is PURE EVIL, not to mention the COVERUP of Peodifile Preditors thoughout the Catholic Church! The TRUTH will come out about this Sick Ba$tard one day. But unfortunately it's already too Late!

PS - Just to rub it in have a look at the insignia in the middle of his FishHat, "A Sheperd on a Throne with a Child on his Lap.

[Anchor]

I agree that said Pope does not seem to me to reflect the love and light that you might expect from one of a high spiritual authority. Why would such a person get all uppity over some police investigating some very serious allegations. What he is doing and saying is tantamount to obstruction of justice - so one must ask - what side is he really on? Is this about respect for God or is it about the respect that ought to be shown to the power of Men who claim special affinity with God ?

Enough clerics have been found to abuse thier positions of trust and power, falling into the traps laid for them by thier own distorted views and expressions of sexuality - that all of them become suspect in the minds of many. Enough have confessed or been found to be guilty, and when this has happened, nothing much is done (except some hollow apologies) or out of court settlements.

I think the Pope is going to see that the moral high ground has subsided on this one.

John..

[morguana]

There are alot of people who contribute to this forum that have excellent intuitve insight.

If you take one Look at this picture tell me what you see?

http://everythingbutamericasucks.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/pope.jpg

All I see is PURE EVIL, not to mention the COVERUP of Peodifile Preditors thoughout the Catholic Church! The TRUTH will come out about this Sick Ba$tard one day. But unfortunately it's already too Late!

PS - Just to rub it in have a look at the insignia in the middle of his FishHat, "A Sheperd on a Throne with a Child on his Lap.

i see the same as you jack, thats one really creepy photo!

[PathWalker]

Don't get mislead-ed by the front headline.

Ask yourself:
1. Why now, the police (or any other official power) is raiding catholic burial tombs?
2. Are these really burial tombs? Maybe storage tombs, or doors?
3. Who pulls the strings about releasing this to the main stream media? Not every raid is in the media.
4. The Belgian police? Really? Who sent them and why?

I believe this is not really a story about pedophile clergy men. This is a story about pushing the power envelope of the Vatican. The Vatican nemesis powers are now pushing the limits of the Vatican power influence. All in order to collect information and estimate the Vatican power.
Do not get fooled by the public media. The main stream media is highly controlled. Try to recognize the sinister powers behind.

One more note. Do not assume that the Vatican's enemy is your friend.

We are not victims, we relinquished our power. Now we take it back. It is a personal empowerment struggle.
Try to keep the balance. Falling into duality/polarity (rage, anger, fear) will obstruct our progress.

[Baelsfire]

It is possible that the Pope himself is part of a Nazi-inspired infiltration and is simply doing what needs to be done to push the agenda of driving the masses away from the Catholic institution, as are all the paedophile priests. Because the Catholic church have always been a force for enlightenment, intelligent open discussion and raising the standards of health and living for Humankind, right? Wait... why are you walking away?!

[SkepticSoul]

haha go belgian cops!

[SkepticSoul]

Don't get mislead-ed by the front headline.

Ask yourself:
1. Why now, the police (or any other official power) is raiding catholic burial tombs?
2. Are these really burial tombs? Maybe storage tombs, or doors?
3. Who pulls the strings about releasing this to the main stream media? Not every raid is in the media.
4. The Belgian police? Really? Who sent them and why?

I believe this is not really a story about pedophile clergy men. This is a story about pushing the power envelope of the Vatican. The Vatican nemesis powers are now pushing the limits of the Vatican power influence. All in order to collect information and estimate the Vatican power.
Do not get fooled by the public media. The main stream media is highly controlled. Try to recognize the sinister powers behind.

One more note. Do not assume that the Vatican's enemy is your friend.

We are not victims, we relinquished our power. Now we take it back. It is a personal empowerment struggle.
Try to keep the balance. Falling into duality/polarity (rage, anger, fear) will obstruct our progress.


I should say HOLD ON mate!
First of all you don't know anything about belgian politics and what is going on here...
We just had a new government election sumwhere begin of june and the people in belgium constantly kept asking police to deal with this matter as no1 is getting arrested for a SERIOUS crime against the LAW and the soul of the victim.
This raid happened for real cause they talking about it all day here in Belgium (Ghent)

[Kra]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/28/MNRF1E68UI.DTL

[PathWalker]

I should say HOLD ON mate!
First of all you don't know anything about belgian politics and what is going on here...


Yes I agree, I know nothing about Belgian politics. Please elaborate and try to explain/interpret what is going behind the scene .
I cannot trust the controlled information streamed by the media.

Please do elaborate.

[RedeZra]

can you spot evil in a picture

http://dutchtv.web-log.nl/mijn_weblog/images/2008/12/30/dutroux_portal_594444d.jpg

meet Marc Dutroux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux)


a Belgian serial killer and child molester who insist that he was part of a Europe-wide pedophile ring

with accomplices among police officers businessmen doctors and even high-level Belgian politicians


it is interesting to note that he does not mention any members of the church



how about the 'The Franklin Cover-Up' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations)

uncovered by former Nebraska state senator John De Camp

a nationwide pedophile ring servicing some of the wealthiest and most powerful figures in the

Omaha business and political elites in the Republican Party circles of George Herbert Walker Bush



pedophilia is a perversion of the powerful

it's not church exclusive but elite inclusive


Im not saying that every man and woman in positions of power

misuse this power for economic and sexual gratification


but it is crystal clear to me

that our society would not have organized crime drugs arms pedophilia trafficking

if TPTB did not want it around


one is at best misled if one thinks the church is in any position of power in our society


but the church has the power to influence millions of minds

and that makes it a formidable opponent to any secular governments

so it's best to infiltrate and smear it


am I saying that the phedophile priests are infiltrators of TPTB

yes and an unequivocal yes

[john.d]

Child abuse witnesses get death threats
Sun, 04 Jul 2010 21:26:46 GMT
Font size : [Increase] [Normal] [Decrease]
Belgian police, file photo
Police investigating claims of child abuse by Belgian clergy say they are probing death threats against witnesses and magistrates.

The threats have been made to witnesses who gave information to the police and to the magistrates who may end up judging the case.

Last month, police raided a meeting of Catholic bishops as part of a probe into allegations of child abuse by priests in Belgium.

The allegations are the latest in a long line of similar cases that have hit the Catholic Church in Europe and North America.

"There are some threats against certain people around the case, and the prosecutors office is investigating that," BBC quoted Jean Marc Meillure, a spokesman for the public prosecutors office, as saying on Sunday.

source :

http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=133423&sectionid=351020605

[Studeo]

Priest 'stole $1.3m from church to pay for male escorts'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/priest-stole-13m-from-church-to-pay-for-male-escorts-2020065.html
By John Christoffersen in New Haven, Connecticut
Wednesday, 7 July 2010
AP

A Roman Catholic priest was charged yesterday with stealing $1.3m
(£850,000) in church money over seven years to use for male escorts,
expensive clothing and luxury hotels and restaurants.

The Rev Kevin J Gray, who was formerly pastor at Sacred Heart/Sagrado
Corazon Parish in Waterbury, Connecticut, was arrested and charged
with first-degree larceny, Waterbury police said. He was expected to
be arraigned yesterday at Waterbury Superior Court.

Mr Gray, 64, allegedly used the money to stay at such hotels as the
Waldorf-Astoria in New York and pay for expensive clothing including
Armani suits, said Captain Christopher Corbett. He also paid the
college tuition and rent of two men he had met, he added.

"We are deeply saddened by the events which have recently had such a
profound affect on Sacred Heart/Sagrado Corazon parish," the
Archdiocese of Hartford said in a statement. "At the financial level,
the archdiocese continues to work with the parish to improve its
financial controls and to address issues arising from the situation
such as insurance coverage and outstanding indebtedness.

"At the spiritual level, we continue to pray for healing and
consolation for the parish family as it moves forward and for guidance
and reconciliation for Father Gray as he encounters the legal
proceedings that await him."

The archdiocese last month asked police to investigate after it
discovered during a financial review that Mr Gray may have taken more
than a million dollars for personal use. The money involved a
combination of parish savings and money that should have been used to
pay certain debts, such as insurance premiums, church officials have
said.

Mr Gray was Sacred Heart's pastor from January 2003 until 15 April
this year, when he was granted a medical leave. He was later
suspended.

[MargueriteBee]

'Scumbag pedophile priest' jailed for 19 years

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38053508/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

A Catholic cleric, who described himself as a "scumbag pedophile priest," has been jailed for nearly 20 years for abusing 25 children in Australia.

John Sidney Denham, 67, pleaded guilty to carrying out attacks on boys as young as five years old at schools in New South Wales between 1968 and 1986, The Australian newspaper reported.

Judge Helen Syme spent at least three hours summing up the charges. “The indecent assaults involved multiple children, often significant planning, were frequently sadistic and overall persistent, objectively serious, criminal courses of conduct,” she said, according to the newspaper.

“The offender's actions contributed to a culture of fear and depravity, especially at the school, which allowed these disturbing offences to occur and then remain unpunished for years.”

Denham was sentenced to 19 years and 10 months, with an order that he serves a minimum of 13 years and 10 months before being considered for parole.

[RedeZra]

surly pedophilia is evil

some say that good and evil are nonexistent - like right and wrong - it's all in the eyes of the beholder

surly pedophilia is wrong


anyone want to try to wiggle away from this ?

[greybeard]

surly pedophilia is evil

some say that good and evil are nonexistent - like right and wrong - it's all in the eyes of the beholder

surly pedophilia is wrong

It is not to be condoned for sure RedeZra.
No action goes un-noticed no one gets off scot-free, every action has consequences.
it is all levels of understanding.
We dont know enough to judge, but for the grace of God there go I.
We are all potential saints and sinners, anyone can be tempted, not everyone can resist.
Ordinary people can do the most terrible things in war.
Suicide bombers are that programed, brain washed, that genuinely they believe the are doing it for God.
We are living in a lunatic asylum.
Yet God in the His ultimate state is pure love and unconcerned because He knows we never left Him we never left heaven, its an illusion but so real.
When we dream we believe it is so.
We must act as though it is real, because it is to us.
Cut the body it bleed but we are not the body, never loose sight of that and fear goes, we cross over to the other side we croak we die, then it is seen that we worried un necessarily, we were always, safe secure. The world does not need healed neither do we but we have every opportunity to find out what we are through love of God and forgiveness of others.
Be in this world but not of it.
its not easy but that is my understanding of this moment and I dont claim to be right.
Love Chris

[Victoria Tintagel]

Isn't this a bit far out? This digging up of bodies? What in heavens name were the police thinking? Should it not be much better if witnesses gave their testimony? Of abuse in their childhood?
Who is going to benefit from these actions? I think it's quite absurd and bizarre, although this doesn't mean I am in favor of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church, as an institution.
Always, in religious fights, individual humans and the organisation are mixed up and that is a shame.

[shiva777]

our BODIES are ONE with our God Self identity...there is no seperation and our bodies are supposed to be the vehicle of pure God expression...they have been shut down to a large extent but they were originally designed to be ETERNAL vehicles of God experience,joy and creativity ....

.we ARE our bodies...just as we ARE one with God


. but our bodies at this time reflect freewill choices that were misunderstood and abused..one aspect of a "freewill" system is that very negative outcomes are allowed....those who do not identify and work on opening their DNA potentials just end up in the artificial cycle of reincarnation,pain and suffering....you know ..the twisted path that Buddhists,religions and new-agers tell us is NATURAL and the WILL of God...we have the capacity to transcend those falsehoods and awaken our DNA IN OUR BODIES to see beyond the lies and go beyond the unnatural recycling of "lower selves" , that are fed on by the very beings that shut down our DNA in the first place

the correct terminology is I AM THIS I AM
not " i am THAT i am" as the false "Gods" wish us to believe

...careful with those philosophies that tell you "you are not your body"...where your spirit goes depends very much on how you deal with your body here..our spirit is supposed to transmute OUR BODY into a vehicle of FREEDOM and LIGHT

one of the biggest lies that has been told to us is that we evolved from the ape or that the annunaki created us...the illuminati were created like that but most of us were not ..we were created as 12 strand DNA,12th Dimensional beings and we are returning to that ...

WE ARE HERE TO EMBODY our GODSELVES,not to escape from the body or from individuality...unity in DIVERSITY is what it is all about

[MargueriteBee]

:focus:

http://alterboys.tripod.com/Faith/Studies_on_Prx.html

'The problem is not just with the fraction of priests who molests youngsters, but in
an ecclesiastical power structure which harbours pedophiles, conceals other
sexual behaviour patterns among its clerics and uses the strategies of duplicity
and counterattack against the victims.'- Joughin, M. 'Church response to the sex
abuse priest', In Fidelity, No.8. September 1995, p. 1.



The evidence is that a higher percentage of Catholic priests and male Religious molest
children more than other ministers of religion. Clergy of all denominations do not molest
equally. In her foreword, the lawyer, Sylvia Demerest cites a 1995 survey of 19,000
treating professionals, funded by the National Centre on Child Abuse and Neglect. The
study found that in the US, 94% of abuses by religious authorities were sexual in nature.
Over half of these cases (54%) involved perpetrators and victims who were Catholic, even
though Roman Catholics comprise only 25% of the United States population. The minor
victims of priest abuse are overwhelmingly boys and teenagers, (80­90%), which is
contrary to the pattern of abuse in the general population.

American studies are not the only ones which defy the assumption that clergy of
all denominations abuse equally. The Briggs­Hawen study included 200
convicted child molesters in New South Wales, Australia. It found that 93% of
convicted and imprisoned child molesters had themselves been sexually abused as
children and 60% stated that they had been abused by a Catholic priest or
Brother.