Is there such a thing as Evil? Is this live a grand play? or test?

[Ilie Pandia]

The thread here (Beyond Treason - True Planetcide (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?34200)) was being constantly derailed from the initial topic with questions about evil and life.

So I've created this thread where such questions can be discussed and analyzed apart from the original intention of the "Beyond Treason" thread.

[Kindred]

I happened upon this video late last night... It's been 'out there' since January, this year. Surprisingly, it's had only 7000+ views... Rather long at 1hr28min. Seems that most people have been trained to get bored after 1/2 hour, so that doesn't surprise me.

What you will learn is that Every Person, in Every US Administration since Reagan, and senior members of the House and Senate, are Guilty of Crimes Beyond Comprehension. These actions are Truly, the actions of maniacal psychopaths. If you aren't sickened by what you learn here... well, I don't know what else to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9iRxiQoZjI&feature=player_embedded

When combined with the information in the post: Disturbing video on our changing bodies
The Extent, Degree and the Magnitude of these Ultimate Crimes becomes apparent.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?33849-Disturbing-video-on-our-changing-bodies.

In Unity and Peace
(and Hope for a Better Future)

[Lord Sidious]

What if they know something that you don't and it isn't treason?

[ceetee9]

What if they know something that you don't and it isn't treason?Lord Sid, I'm sure they know something we don't, but that doesn't give them the right to experiment on people without their knowledge or consent and it doesn't make what they're doing any less treasonous. The end does not justify the means. I would never trust a government that has been caught in so many lies for so many decades and caused so much death and destruction to do much of anything for the "good" of humanity. If they can "handle the truth," so can we. After all, they're just people too. The secrecy and lies has to end.

[aranuk]

What if they know something that you don't and it isn't treason?

I know that you asked a question Lord but to what are you alluding to may I ask?

Stan

[Lord Sidious]

A most shocking video to say the least. It would seem that Iraq should be evacuated and the people there helped to live in a safe environment. Their country has been decimated and the ground is toxicated for billions of years. The babies born deformed by these evil bastards like Bush sen., Bush baby, Rumsfeld, Chaney, Powel, Clintons, et al.

Stan

What if they are not evil Stanugget?

[aranuk]

A most shocking video to say the least. It would seem that Iraq should be evacuated and the people there helped to live in a safe environment. Their country has been decimated and the ground is toxicated for billions of years. The babies born deformed by these evil bastards like Bush sen., Bush baby, Rumsfeld, Chaney, Powel, Clintons, et al.

Stan

What if they are not evil Stanugget?

OK. Evil can be misconstrued in religious terminology. The political and military and industrial forces are not what we could describe as nice people are they? They do all these things for power and money and influence for very selfish reasons at the expense of innocent people. This is a psychopathological way of behaving and certainly not a nice way to behave. When I used the word evil what I meant was that they knowingly do wrong to others with no compulsion other that their selfish desires. Gangsters usually killed their own adversaries not ordinary people. These bastards (in case you pull me up I do not mean they were born out of wedlock) meaning extremely cruel people are worse, much worse than gangsters. At least gangsters have at least some moral code involved in their actions. They don't.

Stan

[Lord Sidious]

What if it is all an act Stan?
And only the audience think it is real?

[spiritguide]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.

[Guest]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.

Do you mean it is a construct -to bring about Peace? or enlightenment or to change to the dream? Hope I'm not going to the wrong road here or offending anyone -definitely not intended.

Nora

we are all related

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.

Do you mean it is a construct -to bring about Peace? or enlightenment or to change to the dream? Hope I'm not going to the wrong road here or offending anyone -definitely not intended.

Nora

we are all related

I believe it is all a construct, but not for peace.
I think the entire reason to be here on this planet is to pass our tests, sort of like boot camp.
The thing is, there are many people who are only here to be a catalyst for others to get that spur they need to begin their journey, get a spurt of growth or whatever.
I call them actors.
I believe I am one of them.
So, what if this is not all real?

[ceetee9]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.Ok, maybe I'm dense here Lord Sid. What exactly are you alluding to then?

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.Ok, maybe I'm dense here Lord Sid. What exactly are you alluding to then?

Read my post above that you thanked.

[ceetee9]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.

Do you mean it is a construct -to bring about Peace? or enlightenment or to change to the dream? Hope I'm not going to the wrong road here or offending anyone -definitely not intended.

Nora

we are all related

I believe it is all a construct, but not for peace.
I think the entire reason to be here on this planet is to pass our tests, sort of like boot camp.
The thing is, there are many people who are only here to be a catalyst for others to get that spur they need to begin their journey, get a spurt of growth or whatever.
I call them actors.
I believe I am one of them.
So, what if this is not all real?Ok, so down the rabbit hole we go. If you believe we are all spiritual beings having a human experience (and I do--at least at this point in my life) then we are all actors on a stage and reality, if it exists, is on the other side of the curtain. But what if there's a curtain beyond the curtain? How many stages and superstages are there? An infinite number perhaps? If so, then is there even any such thing as reality at all?

Regardless, for the actors on this stage the reality of the atrocities perpetrated against them is all we can "know" for sure--and even that "knowledge" is denied by our "human" leaders. Does not these "facts" give one pause to consider that who or whatever is ultimately responsible for creating and/or allowing these conditions to exist (whether real or not) is one sick depraved entity. Maybe this is hell after all.

[ceetee9]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.Ok, maybe I'm dense here Lord Sid. What exactly are you alluding to then?

Read my post above that you thanked.Sorry, I didn't see your response until I finished posting my question.

[Lord Sidious]

Lord Sid, what ifs are everywhere, I can tell you that the video in question is real and especially to the victims. :peace:

I have no doubt that it is real to them.
I am sure that it is.

Do you mean it is a construct -to bring about Peace? or enlightenment or to change to the dream? Hope I'm not going to the wrong road here or offending anyone -definitely not intended.

Nora

we are all related

I believe it is all a construct, but not for peace.
I think the entire reason to be here on this planet is to pass our tests, sort of like boot camp.
The thing is, there are many people who are only here to be a catalyst for others to get that spur they need to begin their journey, get a spurt of growth or whatever.
I call them actors.
I believe I am one of them.
So, what if this is not all real?Ok, so down the rabbit hole we go. If you believe we are all spiritual beings having a human experience (and I do--at least at this point in my life) then we are all actors on a stage and reality, if it exists, is on the other side of the curtain. But what if there's a curtain beyond the curtain? How many stages and superstages are there? An infinite number perhaps? If so, then is there even any such thing as reality at all?

Regardless, for the actors on this stage the reality of the atrocities perpetrated against them is all we can "know" for sure--and even that "knowledge" is denied by our "human" leaders. Does not these "facts" give one pause to consider that who or whatever is ultimately responsible for creating and/or allowing these conditions to exist (whether real or not) is one sick depraved entity. Maybe this is hell after all.

I think that most are here to sit their tests and some, who have passed their test/s are acting as the test givers.
So, not all are actors, just some.

[Guest]

This is only my view point -only to qualify. If we move beyond the players, actors, directors, producers and the human collectives other collectives and the ones imposing themselves on the human collectives and beyond the mind screens and the created slide shows put into the mind screens there is something else communicating to our own humanness.

Nora

we are all related

[PurpleLama]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

edit

if that's what you're saying, I'd be inclined to agree. I missed seeing the second page until after I posted. Sorry.

[Lord Sidious]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

Very much so.

[Kindred]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

Very much so.

So Sir Sid... it's all just fine and dandy that young children get their limbs blown off, terribly burned and live in horrific pain, and further, get to see their friends and parents become terribly maimed, killed, etc, etc.... it's all just a game...

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I see this as hedonistic psychopathy.

I see no point in remaining among psychopaths...

[spiritguide]

Lord Sid, yes many lessons at many levels without emotions. Without Evil there is no Good or did good exist first to allow evil to teach us good? Just a point to ponder.

[Laurel]

I believe it is all a construct, but not for peace.
I think the entire reason to be here on this planet is to pass our tests, sort of like boot camp.
The thing is, there are many people who are only here to be a catalyst for others to get that spur they need to begin their journey, get a spurt of growth or whatever.
I call them actors.
I believe I am one of them.
So, what if this is not all real?

Sidious, great post!


Lord Sid, yes many lessons at many levels without emotions. Without Evil there is no Good or did good exist first to allow evil to teach us good? Just a point to ponder.

Perhaps there is no such thing as good or evil. We learn and grow from horrible events. They make us stronger and more compassionate. Most of the wonderful threads in this forum wouldn't exist if it weren't for these terrible acts inspiring us to raise our conciousness.

[Lord Sidious]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

Very much so.

So Sir Sid... it's all just fine and dandy that young children get their limbs blown off, terribly burned and live in horrific pain, and further, get to see their friends and parents become terribly maimed, killed, etc, etc.... it's all just a game...

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I see this as hedonistic psychopathy.

I see no point in remaining among psychopaths...

I didn't say it was a game, it is a screenplay, except only the audience believe it is real, the actors, the directors and the rest know that it isn't.
Oh and I never said it was find and dandy, don't put words into my mouth thank you.

[modwiz]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

Very much so.

So Sir Sid... it's all just fine and dandy that young children get their limbs blown off, terribly burned and live in horrific pain, and further, get to see their friends and parents become terribly maimed, killed, etc, etc.... it's all just a game...

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I see this as hedonistic psychopathy.

I see no point in remaining among psychopaths...

I didn't say it was a game, it is a screenplay, except only the audience believe it is real, the actors, the directors and the rest know that it isn't.
Oh and I never said it was find and dandy, don't put words into my mouth thank you.

I'll bet some ladies here think you're fine and dandy you big Sith stud, you.:p

Hey, is that a light saber in your pocket? :banplease:

[Lord Sidious]

What you seem to be saying, Sid, is what if we're living in a novel, or a movie. What if all the psychopaths are really doing a great job playing their scripted parts and the real test is for the rest of us, those who actually have a *choice*.

Very much so.

So Sir Sid... it's all just fine and dandy that young children get their limbs blown off, terribly burned and live in horrific pain, and further, get to see their friends and parents become terribly maimed, killed, etc, etc.... it's all just a game...

I'm sorry, I don't agree. I see this as hedonistic psychopathy.

I see no point in remaining among psychopaths...

I didn't say it was a game, it is a screenplay, except only the audience believe it is real, the actors, the directors and the rest know that it isn't.
Oh and I never said it was find and dandy, don't put words into my mouth thank you.

I'll bet some ladies here think you're fine and dandy you big Sith stud, you.:p

Hey, is that a light saber in your pocket? :banplease:

Damn, but you are a classic Rad.
I can't wait to sit on your porch and talk rubbish whilst drinking arabic mint tea.
This could be very soon.
To finally meet up with my brother from a different mother.
For those who don't know, I value this man more than I value oxygen.

[Lord Sidious]

Personally I'd like to get back to the topic of the post. It is important to learn about these things so that we do not ignore them and repress them. There definitely is evil here, and denying that it exists does not work in transcending it.

I am not sure I found the evidence put forth by Ms. Smallstone entirely convincing on every point, however it has opened a question in my mind as to what is going on. As to what to do about it? Personally I am not called to do anything except become aware of it and let go of any fear I have around it.

The more you focus on the negative in life, the more you will find negative in life. Yet there is a balance where is is extremely important not to ignore the 'elephant in the room'.

I hope others have an internal calling to do something about it, and in my experience that is how the whole functions, it calls upon each of us to step forward and make changes when it is time.

Avalon exists to bring to light information which awakens us all to what is happening on our lovely planet. Thank you for continuing this mission in the forum.

Tell me Dawn, how do you know there is evil out there?

[Ilie Pandia]

This thread is now open.

Please continue the discussion about the existence of evil and life as a test on this thread.

[Lord Sidious]

This thread is now open.

Please continue the discussion about the existence of evil and life as a test on this thread.

Thanks for that, Romanianugget.

[Ilie Pandia]

I personally don't think that life is a test :)

If we are creators (and not victims of some grand plan) then life is what we make of it. "The beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kinda thing.

And, probably in the grand scheme of things, in the "we are all One" point of view, there is no good and evil. And I'd have to agree with Lord Sidious (the real one!): "Good is a point of view Anakin!"

But, I am not sure that this means we should sit on our asses while in this "life"/"plane"/"reality" because is an illusion. My body endures hunger that feels very real, and so does laughter :)

[Lord Sidious]

I personally don't think that life is a test :)

If we are creators (and not victims of some grand plan) then life is what we make of it. "The beauty is in the eye of the beholder" kinda thing.

And, probably in the grand scheme of things, in the "we are all One" point of view, there is no good and evil. And I'd have to agree with Lord Sidious (the real one!): "Good is a point of view Anakin!"

But, I am not sure that this means we should sit on our asses while in this "life"/"plane"/"reality" because is an illusion. My body endures hunger that feels very real, and so does laughter :)

Nope, sitting around is what got us all into this mess to start with.

[RedeZra]

the words we use when we speak and write are not tangible to us

but if someone stabs an old lady in the back with a knife

then the term evil comes to mind to describe that act


wise men say "we will know good and evil by their fruits"

if the fruit is evil then the tree is likewise

and an evil act comes from an evil mind


but from where does the mind pick up evil ?

from the aeather


from evil spirits in the aether who influence and manipulate the mind to think and act evil

[music]

Evil exists only in the human mind.

In the purely natural, physical realm, of which our bodies partake, a lion kills a lamb because it hungers. There is no ill-intent, and there is no judgement.

In the purely natural, spiritual realm, of which our soul partakes, a metaphorical lion lies down with a metaphorical lamb because spirit knows no hunger. There is nothing but Love, there is no judgement.

"Evil" is the act of an embodied consciousness that has lost the connection to Love.

"Evil" is human - it is ours - own it.

Simple.

[Lord Sidious]

Evil is a judgement from the ego.
That is why I gave up on all that, I don't need my ego bull**itting me.

[music]

The ego bull****s all of us in subtle ways. Even the claim "I am free from ego" has some ego attached to it. It has it's place as part of our tool kit for 3D, we just gotta work to keep the sucker out of the driver's seat.

One thing is clear to me though - no ego, no evil.

Now that is a bumper sticker right there, and a T-shirt.

[Lord Sidious]

The ego bull****s all of us in subtle ways. Even the claim "I am free from ego" has some ego attached to it. It has it's place as part of our tool kit for 3D, we just gotta work to keep the sucker out of the driver's seat.

One thing is clear to me though - no ego, no evil.

Now that is a bumper sticker right there, and a T-shirt.

I didn't mean I gave up on ego, I meant I gave up on making judgements.
Except when I call people nuggets.
Nugget. :p

[ceetee9]

I didn't mean I gave up on ego, I meant I gave up on making judgements.
Except when I call people nuggets.LOL! Which begs the question (and you've probably addressed this somewhere along the way--I just don't recall your answer), exactly what is your definition of a nugget (since the term can easily be taken at least a couple different ways; e.g., a piece of gold or something you flush--or is that your intent)? ;)

[Lord Sidious]

I didn't mean I gave up on ego, I meant I gave up on making judgements.
Except when I call people nuggets.LOL! Which begs the question (and you've probably addressed this somewhere along the way--I just don't recall your answer), exactly what is your definition of a nugget (since the term can easily be taken at least a couple different ways; e.g., a piece of gold or something you flush--or is that your intent)? ;)

Sorry nugget, it is a secret, you have to be an initiated member of the Sith Order to find out.

[spiritguide]

Which begs the question.... Is need the manifestation of good (survival of body and soul) and want the manifestation of evil (pleasure of the ego)? On this plane of existance we get to choose from both or one alone.... IMHO

[Lord Sidious]

Which begs the question.... Is need the manifestation of good (survival of body and soul) and want the manifestation of evil (pleasure of the ego)? On this plane of existance we get to choose from both or one alone.... IMHO

Excellent questions nugget.
I would think that if you are not right, you are very close to the answer/s.
I find that the further I go up the ladder (metaphorically speaking), the less I want and the more simple my needs become.
Except for Harleys, that isn't a problem, we should all have an iron horse. :cool:

[Tony]

I was sitting on a bench in the town centre, and an old lady sat down. She turned to me and said, "There is something wrong....time seems to be speeding up....have the poles shifted.....I don't believe in this climate change idea....?" And then walked off. Everyone I meet is uneasy. Yes, there is evil about, and it is called utter selfishness.

[ceetee9]

I didn't mean I gave up on ego, I meant I gave up on making judgements.
Except when I call people nuggets.LOL! Which begs the question (and you've probably addressed this somewhere along the way--I just don't recall your answer), exactly what is your definition of a nugget (since the term can easily be taken at least a couple different ways; e.g., a piece of gold or something you flush--or is that your intent)? ;)

Sorry nugget, it is a secret, you have to be an initiated member of the Sith Order to find out.Oooo... I thought secrets and secret societies were a no-no on Avalon and with "enlightened" beings. :p

[music]

The ego bull****s all of us in subtle ways. Even the claim "I am free from ego" has some ego attached to it. It has it's place as part of our tool kit for 3D, we just gotta work to keep the sucker out of the driver's seat.

One thing is clear to me though - no ego, no evil.

Now that is a bumper sticker right there, and a T-shirt.

I didn't mean I gave up on ego, I meant I gave up on making judgements.
Except when I call people nuggets.
Nugget. :p

Which is a shame, because it sits inconsistently with your general level of awareness.

[music]

I was sitting on a bench in the town centre, and an old lady sat down. She turned to me and said, "There is something wrong....time seems to be speeding up....have the poles shifted.....I don't believe in this climate change idea....?" And then walked off. Everyone I meet is uneasy. Yes, there is evil about, and it is called utter selfishness.

"time seems to be speeding up" - many people are confused with that, and many here will have noticed the same thing. Is this a relative thing, a reaction to information and sensation overload? Or is it that our physical bodies are actually somehow relating differently to the passage of time?

We could divide selfishness into two kinds. The unthinking selfishness of those who have been brainwashed, and the calculated selfishness of the ones soaping up those brains.

The real "evil" is that there is a calculated effort by the cartel to prevent us from experiencing and assimilating the subtle energies that are a part of this "time", and this region of "space".

[another bob]

"The purpose of evil is to help man grow; to help man develop. To face man with the consequences of his own choices. To make him turn away from the toys of the world and look for his real self, his real nature. Evil is real but not the final reality. The final reality is the Light and Love of God. Root yourself in that final reality always and at every moment, and evil will crumble around you."

~Mother Meera


"There are various tests to which a devotee is subjected: they could be of the mind, or the intellect, of the body, and so on. A number of such tests are there. In fact, God is conducting tests all the time; every occurrence in life is a test. Every thought that crops up in the mind is in itself a test to see what one's reaction will be. Hence one must be always alert and aloof, conducting oneself with a spirit of detachment, viewing everything as an opportunity afforded to gain experience, to improve oneself and go on to a higher stage."

~Bhagavan Nityananda


Blessings!

[Syl]

I was sitting on a bench in the town centre, and an old lady sat down. She turned to me and said, "There is something wrong....time seems to be speeding up....have the poles shifted.....I don't believe in this climate change idea....?" And then walked off. Everyone I meet is uneasy. Yes, there is evil about, and it is called utter selfishness.

i dont really believe in evil on its own either, i think most suffering comes from misunderstanding and misinterpreting and not realizing i am you as you are me,.. reflecting your actions upon your own, dialectics,.. emphatie.. lets of people seem to forget about this still..

So yeah, selfishness,.. because most people havent been thought any other way, they dont try to see the bigger picture and the way we eventually are all connected somehow,..
So,. thats why i think, most 'evil' is based on misunderstanding either on purpose or not, the denial of equality for as each living being has its own perception as 'I' have my own.
in the end, logic can only bring good, even though logic can be aplied within a context offensive to another, though imo when it comes to percieving life, love and fear, were all equal.

[spiritguide]

A iron horse with a light saber holder. Right Lord Sid. :peace:

[Karma Ninja]

Evil is as evil does and good will do what good wishes. This might sound a little too Forrest Gumpish but allow me to expand. For all the good love seeks to accomplish, evil could always come of it...

There exists a line within us all that is the balance between these opposing forces. Each and everyone of us is capable of immense good and unbelievable evil. The two forces do not exist without one another and some might even see them as two sides of the same face. We are all desperately trying to find our personal balance. The outside forces we encounter push us to either side of the aforementioned face. One persons good is another persons evil. In the end we as a society have tried to establish a balance or happy middle ground that we can all coexist within. This line is established as a mean or median but is always moving. What a society accepts during war times is very different from what it allows during times of peace. While the balance a society strikes might be cemented by laws and rules, we are witness to the co-relation when we see how people constantly break these laws. We call this yin and yang or good and evil but it best understood as one and the same.

In the end there is no such thing as evil and there is no such thing as good. Just a societal norm...

And finally... all the above is simply an opinion and not your truth. Unless you want it to be.

[spiritguide]

Thing implies materialism whereas both evil and good are transcendental not just things. IMHO When one climbs his/her mountain to find the wise one atop, he/she then is told that the answer is back at the place you started. Look within and all the answers you seek will be found there ! The dichotomy of being human is simultaneously existing on two planes of existence at the same time.

:peace:

[sdafnom]

Evil is a judgement from the ego.
That is why I gave up on all that, I don't need my ego bull**itting me.

Doesn't Good then falls under the same category?
Unless the opposite of Evil is Non-Evil or Live.

Stavros

[161803398]

4.5 billion years of contamination in the middle east, asia and eastern europe is evil. just call me an an unphilosophical egomaniac.

[Lord Sidious]

Evil is a judgement from the ego.
That is why I gave up on all that, I don't need my ego bull**itting me.

Doesn't Good then falls under the same category?
Unless the opposite of Evil is Non-Evil or Live.

Stavros

Stavros, you are correct, good and evil are judgements from ego.

[ktlight]

Along the path are tempting distractions, fascinations. Avoid these temptations. Get caught up in fascinations and you are trapped.

[PathWalker]

In the duality domain, every value has an opposite.
Therefore is there is good there must be evil, and vice versa.

[motherlove]

Maybe, if we are a lense of consciousness our ego is the thermometer which creates the temperature in the room of our awareness. What we look at we affect by our thoughts words and beliefs so is evil out there? Could we have had a hand in creating it? If so is it more important to save the world or to save ourselves from ourselves? How do we change the world if we blame the effect rather than the cause? IMHO. Best Wishes

[Fred Steeves]

A most shocking video to say the least. It would seem that Iraq should be evacuated and the people there helped to live in a safe environment. Their country has been decimated and the ground is toxicated for billions of years. The babies born deformed by these evil bastards like Bush sen., Bush baby, Rumsfeld, Chaney, Powel, Clintons, et al.

Stan

What if they are not evil Stanugget?

How was it that you referred to "them" when we were talking that day? Ah yes, I remember, like making beer, it needs a CATALYST. See Rob? I was listening my friend...Makes sense to me so far...

Cheers,
Fred

[Lord Sidious]

A most shocking video to say the least. It would seem that Iraq should be evacuated and the people there helped to live in a safe environment. Their country has been decimated and the ground is toxicated for billions of years. The babies born deformed by these evil bastards like Bush sen., Bush baby, Rumsfeld, Chaney, Powel, Clintons, et al.

Stan

What if they are not evil Stanugget?

How was it that you referred to "them" when we were talking that day? Ah yes, I remember, like making beer, it needs a CATALYST. See Rob? I was listening my friend...Makes sense to me so far...

Cheers,
Fred

Belly good glasshopper. :p

[Tony]

Self cherishing is an evil. Doesn't look like an evil, but it is a cloaked evil.
It misdirects one's true nature, and that of others.

Anything that creates suffering is an evil, but we have got so used to
subtle suffering, so we hardly notice it anymore.

[panopticon]

G'day All,

From my understanding the idea of "good" and the idea of "evil" are essentially human concepts.
It's all inter-related and like everything operates on multiple levels.
As music said:

Evil exists only in the human mind.
In the purely natural, physical realm, of which our bodies partake, a lion kills a lamb because it hungers. There is no ill-intent, and there is no judgement.


I would also add that "good" only exists in the mind as well.
These two concepts are foundations for our co-existence.
Within different cultures different things are viewed as "good", while others are viewed as "evil".
They are also key in the "money, control, power" (MCP) inter-relationship that I've referred to in other posts.

Historically many religious groups, and "teachers", have used the "evil"/"good" dichotomy as a means of exercising and increasing MCP.
Corporations in the West have taken advantage of the protestant work ethic to create the myth of the "good employee" and too "direct" what is acceptable behaviour.
This was also applied via different techniques within other cultures by making use of equally applicable social norms and rules of conduct.
Nation States create the myth of the "good citizen" as a means of control, regulation and subjugation.
Laws that govern, to some extent, interactions and behaviour in a society are based on the legislation created by the Nation State which is in turn based on the foundation provided by the pre-existing, or imported, religious dogma.

For example, why is it that some religions moved from being popular local beliefs while others didn't?
Maybe one reason for this is that originally religion was used by the ruling/elite class to control and subjugate. If a religious belief was good at doing this then it stood a chance of being accepted and financed. If not, and if it was a possible problem, it would be defined by the authorities as "evil". The religion creates and controls the populace allowing for an increase in MCP. Eventually the society evolves around the religious dogma and when the Nation State arose it assumed the dogma as a base of control. This in turn transferred into law. Eventually the society outgrows some of the dogma (laws against homo-sexuality for example) yet the underlying foundation is still based on the dogmatic bedrock.

Looking at it from a different perspective.
Everyone here is already familiar with the yin/yang symbol and its meaning.
The two colours are complementary and exist within the symbol.
There can be no light without darkness because without darkness there is nothing that defines light.
There's a saying I once heard that went something like: "In a land of saints, incorrectly turning a page is a sin"

Important to remember also is that the symbol represents tao (the whole), not the individual parts.
So from the perspective of the dark "spot" part it is important and integral to all things, yet from the outside it maybe seen as only a minor piece.

Last, we have all been socialised into this world and our understandings are based on that which we have learnt over our life. These understandings are shaped by the languages that both confine and define our thinking processes. To live within a group we define rules, both formal and informal, that govern accepted behaviour so as to make exisitng in close proximity to each other easier. Unfortuantely this also allows for control of the group to be assumed by others, as I mentioned earlier, that are not necessarily working for the benefit of the whole group. This drama has been repeated throughout history and, in my opinion, only when decentralised self aware, self reliant communities exist will it be possible for the MCP mechanism to be mitigated.

So, does evil exist? Yes and No.
To the extent that individuals and groups define certain actions as "good" and others as "evil" then indeed "evil" exists.
To the extent that we exist within the world, as constructed/constrained by our sensory perceptions, and define/explain our understandings by the vagueness of language, then maybe it does.
Does evil exist as an absolute? No, I don't believe it does, however that's subjective (based on my understandings) and I am happy for anyone to say there is "good" and "evil", just do me the courtesy of understanding that your use of these terms is not absolute, but based on how you see the world (umwelt) and is preconditioned by learnt responses (doxa).

Lord Sidious has presented an interesting perspective that I am familiar with.
It is sometimes misunderstood as being "uncaring" but I view it as the opposite, it involves caring deeply.

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[RedeZra]

when we pass out and if we wake up in the sewer of the universe

then keep the composure and remember

it's all in the mind

but how the hell do we get out of here

[wolf_rt]

I have been trying to steer away from thinking in terms of good and evil lately.

I find 'Helpful' or 'Not Helpful' to be a more useful way to think of it.

I consider violating another persons will to be 'not helpful'... this would include tricking others into imposing your will on people.