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Daft Ada
19th November 2011, 15:52
Now I understand the whole Greek/Italy debt thing.....

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

crosby
19th November 2011, 16:21
very nice summation Daft Ada, thank you.
regards, corson

sunflower
19th November 2011, 18:33
Rright on the spot....best description I have read about the whole sorry mess. Thanks.

music
19th November 2011, 19:41
Perfect, except for the part where everybody quickly returns to a state of indebtedness, waiting on the next fortuitous show of German largesse. The only people to benefit from the bailout package are the banks and insurance companies, and the Germans, whose currency remains artificially undervalued as long as Greece remains in the EU, allowing them to export like crazy to great advantage. The bailout package just gives the banks one more crack at sucking money out the situation until Greece does the only thing it can do, and leave the EU, perhaps studying the Icelandic response to external financial manipulation on their way out the door.

Mulder
19th November 2011, 20:00
I wish all the debts could be bailed out like this, but the debts have become so big all the paper money in the world is not enough to pay the debt! If all the paper money could be circulated to the butcher, the prostitute & back to the hotellier many times, the debt could be paid, but the bankers would hoarde all the money when it reaches them so the money go-around will be halted.

sygh
19th November 2011, 20:08
Bravo!!! Bravo!!!

Lord Sidious
19th November 2011, 20:32
I wish all the debts could be bailed out like this, but the debts have become so big all the paper money in the world is not enough to pay the debt! If all the paper money could be circulated to the butcher, the prostitute & back to the hotellier many times, the debt could be paid, but the bankers would hoarde all the money when it reaches them so the money go-around will be halted.

That isn't even the main problem.
The main problem is that you are using someone elses promise to pay to ''purchase'' whatever it is that you are ''purchasing'' and therefore, who really ''owns'' that property?

WyoSeeker
19th November 2011, 21:06
Or that is how the bailout COULD work if the money were given to main street instead of wall street. The reality is the bankers are creating more debt to cover their bad gambling losses and passing the burden for it all to the public. All while eating caviar and pissing in gold plated toilets yet continuing to grab with both hands for themselves. And this is happening on a global scale.

ThePythonicCow
19th November 2011, 21:23
The main problem is that you are using someone elses promise to pay to ''purchase'' whatever it is that you are ''purchasing'' and therefore, who really ''owns'' that property?
Of course, few notice that detail, until after the Monetary Powers of this world crash the economy, lowering almost everyone's cash flow (wages, salaries, pensions, and savings in stocks, bonds and options all dry up). Then almost anyone owing debt or tax payments can't make the payments, and loses control of the property used to secure the debt or taxes.

So long as those Powers maintain control of the "debt collectors", police on a small scale and military on a large scale, then the foreclosures, personal and national, continue to be enforced.

Lord Sidious
19th November 2011, 21:53
The main problem is that you are using someone elses promise to pay to ''purchase'' whatever it is that you are ''purchasing'' and therefore, who really ''owns'' that property?
Of course, few notice that detail, until after the Monetary Powers of this world crash the economy, lowering almost everyone's cash flow (wages, salaries, pensions, and savings in stocks, bonds and options all dry up). Then almost anyone owing debt or tax payments can't make the payments, and loses control of the property used to secure the debt or taxes.

So long as those Powers maintain control of the "debt collectors", police on a small scale and military on a large scale, then the foreclosures, personal and national, continue to be enforced.

I think you might have missed my meaning.
Even if you ''paid'' for whatever you were ''purchasing'', you would not own it, whomever owns the currency notes that you used would as it is their promise to pay, not yours.

ThePythonicCow
19th November 2011, 22:22
I think you might have missed my meaning.
Even if you ''paid'' for whatever you were ''purchasing'', you would not own it, whomever owns the currency notes that you used would as it is their promise to pay, not yours.

Yes - I did miss that meaning.

Now that (I think) I see it clearer, I disagree.

I am unaware that the method of payment creates such an implicit contract.

Ineffable Hitchhiker
19th November 2011, 22:25
Drink bombs, I mean bonds. :P
(another analogy of global debt)

http://i42.tinypic.com/24n0fp1.gif




NvFj4ZwWszY

Lord Sidious
20th November 2011, 00:20
I think you might have missed my meaning.
Even if you ''paid'' for whatever you were ''purchasing'', you would not own it, whomever owns the currency notes that you used would as it is their promise to pay, not yours.

Yes - I did miss that meaning.

Now that (I think) I see it clearer, I disagree.

I am unaware that the method of payment creates such an implicit contract.

How could it not?
You didn't give anyone consideration when you gave them the note, you gave them the federal reserves promise to pay.
Not yours, theirs.
This is one way they did away with private property.
They didn't ban it, they just made it so that you can't give or receive clear title.

Seikou-Kishi
20th November 2011, 01:30
Except it doesn't work like that. Private people have their debts and banks have their debts, but governments sold out their taxpayers by saying that a banker's debt would be paid for by the taxpayer. That bank will still call in its debts, but will not pay any of its dues, while in the meantime Mr X is made homeless by Cancerbank because Mr X had a mortgage with them and they foreclosed. Mr X moves into social housing, and pays his taxes, which are funnelled into Cancerbank's coffers because Prime Minister Sellout decided Cancerbank's private debts would be publicly backed.

It is a most disgusting thing for banks to behave as politicians allow them to behave. It is thievery twice done.

Daft Ada
20th November 2011, 13:33
Wow! this started a bit of a debate didn't it :p People have no idea how much they are owned and controlled by the establishement Sid, what you have described is but a tiny part. There is a guy on the net who gives talks and shows a lot of this stuff, he blew my mind. He shows how the country is run just like a business and we are all owned just like assets to the business, he shows the real reason we have a birth certificate and why you don't exist without it, have a look at some of his stuff fellow Avalonians it's a real eye opener.
His name is
John Harris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0IM7Hobd_k

Lord Sidious
20th November 2011, 13:44
John Harris is indeed excellent and yes, I am only talking about a tiny, tiny part of the picture here.