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Beren
3rd July 2010, 21:39
Dealing with this type of things is difficult. Mere try to explain all surrounding fact is almost impossible task for many. However that does not change the fact that a war rages on. A war that is very often unseen . It`s a war for souls.
Tons of evidence of entities whom reside in another reality or dimension than ours are forcing us to at least think of what is going on in our lives.
Thoughts, actions and other things are effected by spiritual world more than we are aware of.
Heard of a phrase that fish stinks from its head?
Well that could explain the things here. Spirits are controlling majority of people without same people being aware of it.
Free will is a rule but affecting is not ,hence thoughts are being infused into minds ,patterns of thinking, even vivid pictures or whole conversations- all in order to provoke reaction of people.
Then when people react ,they mostly do it blindly erring or doing things which they regret afterwards.

Whenever you do good thing, or a good deed, it does not comes unnoticed by all sides. Dark ones then seek to diminish your effort ,to down it. Then they turn to yourself in a form or energy attack or simply by bombarding your mind with negative thoughts, provoking you to do evil.

As we are physical we can`t deal with them on physical level. But first step in overcoming the enemy is knowledge.
Knowledge of what is happening and whom is affecting your life in bad way.
You may think it is this or that but major affecter are spiritual entities.

That is why this is a war for souls. They wish that humans be enslaved or dead. Why?
Because human kind are meant to inherit eternal blessings from Creator.
Bible spoke of that.
Now forget all that you assume about Bible. Forget all and approach from other angle.
Story written there is bigger than we ever thought of.
One of the reasons why that story is blurred or diminished was and is dark ones`s wishes that we as humans never ever raise our head and have knowledge. Hence the history of lies ,murders and all evil to keep the truth out of humanity`s hands.

But never forget that little thingy ... free will. By free will that is granted to me I choose to know and to be. I choose to live and to love. I choose to have nothing with darkness. I choose to live my life like some people never will, I choose to find kindness ,beauty and truth.

I hope that you too - who ever you are that reads this lines - will choose wisely.
Circles that we start always are rounding to our face, some may feel as blessing and other as curse. May you choose knowledge filled with love,tossed with wisdom and justice - first step towards Creator as our everlasting Father.

kriya
3rd July 2010, 22:08
I completely agree with everything you have written, an excellent post, thank you.

Many people believe their thoughts to be their own but at times they are not. Watch your thoughts.
Every good thought and deed brings you closer to the Divine. Focus upon that.

I have been attacked by negativity all my life, but I'll fight until the end because I am on team GOD

Love,

Kriya

Moemers
4th July 2010, 00:20
So I have a question pertaining to this. It's been in my mind all day.

I feel like there's something big coming, and I wish I could elaborate on that, but I find myself unable to, which may be part of the problem.

I don't feel like I'm ready. I don't feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be, like I'm just ...completely behind.

I'm a relative newcomer to most of the information on this board and its many sources, but I've been interested in spirituality my whole life.

I guess my question is, Am I just being negative because of the mass of information I've still yet to accumulate stressing me out?

How do I prepare further? Will I know in my heart, without a doubt, that I am advancing?

Thanks everyone, and sorry for the ridiculous questions. It's been a weird day.

Tuza
4th July 2010, 00:38
Thank you Beren my friend, everything you said is right on the mark.

Moemers you will be fine hon, will be fine, don't stress, you will absolutely be okay.

kriya
4th July 2010, 08:56
So I have a question pertaining to this. It's been in my mind all day.

I feel like there's something big coming, and I wish I could elaborate on that, but I find myself unable to, which may be part of the problem.

I don't feel like I'm ready. I don't feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be, like I'm just ...completely behind.

I'm a relative newcomer to most of the information on this board and its many sources, but I've been interested in spirituality my whole life.

I guess my question is, Am I just being negative because of the mass of information I've still yet to accumulate stressing me out?

How do I prepare further? Will I know in my heart, without a doubt, that I am advancing?

Thanks everyone, and sorry for the ridiculous questions. It's been a weird day.

Hello Moemers:welcome:

I think you are experiencing what everyone else goes through when they here this sort of informaton for the first time......sheer panic:eek: Its not ridiculous at all, but our minds just can't cope with it. The best advice I could give is not to live your life in fear. For me its a case of accepting what will be will be. And you are right the best thing you can do is work on your own spirtitual advancement, by raising your consciousness and therefore your vibration. Ignore negativity as best you can and remain positive. Fill your mind with loving thoughts and cutivate a relationship with the Divine, is the best advice one could give.

As my old Guru said......why look down the sewer, when there is loveliness all around:kiss:

Love,

Kriya

Beren
4th July 2010, 10:05
Kriya & Tuza;

Keep the faith and let love be your energy.
If we stand firm to our choices, evil can not prevail since law of free will is above them.
They chose their road, now they are jealous on others whom not wish to follow them on the road to "hell" ( hell is a permanent stage of being where you`re cut off of Creator`s life and love and light).

Beren
4th July 2010, 10:09
Moemers,
friend , a first step is the hardest. It`s like strangling the serpent inside of you. Clear your mind when learning about all deceit thrown upon us, do not be afraid because the moment you set your foot to seek light ,that is the moment of darkness defeat. Continue the path and ready your heart to be fertile soil for Love, Justice ,Wisdom and Power of Creator.

greybeard
4th July 2010, 11:06
Yes Beren all true.
The dark feed on negativity and fear.
Its up to us to walk forward with faith and humility in our heart.
We havent the spiritual energy to win through unaided, what is heavy to us is is a feather to the Divine.
We need to forgive the dark for they know not what they do.
Our act of forgiveness shines the light of the Crerator on them till not even a shadow of darkness remains.
The darkness only has the power our fear and negativity gives, they are energy vampires.
Remove the energy and they dissolve.
Chris

Elandiel BernElve
4th July 2010, 16:42
Moemers,

All this information is overwhelming, it can make you insecure.
My advise is get to know yourself, know who and what you are and what your purpose is.
When you have reached total acceptance of yourself youll be a lot more at ease and all this information out here will be much easier to accumulate

Love

Moemers
4th July 2010, 17:31
Thank you everybody :)

I think I'll start at the beginning. Seems like the best place :D

Beren
6th July 2010, 10:16
Yes Beren all true.
The dark feed on negativity and fear.
Its up to us to walk forward with faith and humility in our heart.
We havent the spiritual energy to win through unaided, what is heavy to us is is a feather to the Divine.
We need to forgive the dark for they know not what they do.
Our act of forgiveness shines the light of the Crerator on them till not even a shadow of darkness remains.
The darkness only has the power our fear and negativity gives, they are energy vampires.
Remove the energy and they dissolve.
Chris


Chris,
I think they forcefully embed fear emotions as a seed ,then as that grows inside of us they reap the fruit, usually in the form of some deed caused by fear.
That is why is necessary to recognize "the seed" of fear and thus eliminate it.

Anchor
6th July 2010, 10:35
Beren,

I think if you like to fight, then you will fight.

If you want to live by the sword, then prepare to die by it.

If you want to rise above it, you can.

If you are attacked, then you at some level invited it, but you have a choice how to respond.

If I am attacked I can choose the outcome and the mode of achieving that outcome. I can even choose to loose - and should my heart dictate this, then that is what I would do. Sometimes, loosing a bridge to win a war is good. Sometimes you find that in the big scheme of things, the loss of the bridge was nothing. You never know till after - but you are tested to follow your inner voice and guidance and relax into the certainty that it is ALWAYS correct.

Most of us will respond to an endless stream of challenges according to our programming and learning rooted in our single lifetimes experience in this realm. Then as we grow in our self knowledge, faith and power, led without error by our hearts - the singular focus where all that is meets all that is, we will master the game. All paradox resolved, all distortion resolved, one light and one love.

You can dress up the challenge in all kinds of drama - its your choice. You can have a war of souls, or a war of flesh and blood - its all the same - 3D drama.


I am human becoming - help me to become,
We are humans becoming - help us become,
They are humans becoming - help them become.

John..

greybeard
6th July 2010, 10:53
Chris,
I think they forcefully embed fear emotions as a seed ,then as that grows inside of us they reap the fruit, usually in the form of some deed caused by fear.
That is why is necessary to recognize "the seed" of fear and thus eliminate it.

I can understand where you are coming from Beren.
However for me its about transcending, letting go of, starving the negative of attention.
If I fight or resist in any way then I am using the same level of energy that created the fear.
it a subtle response, its not head in the sand, its not avoidance.
I recognize that we are a fear based society (Ego)
Im not in fear of anything because I no longer fear death.
I have preferences --- I would rather dies a non violent death without pain for example.
All fear is related to the body as Im inclined to point out. I have no fear for my soul, it belongs to God.
We live in a university of consciousness.
For example without suffering of others we could not show compassion, the greatest form of love.
I pray for the day when suffering is no longer necessary for us to express love.
Every seeming negativity is an opportunity for us to express love and forgiveness.
God forgive them for they know not what they do.
Jesus Christ was and is all about love and forgiveness.
He stood back and let The Father work through him.
Of my self I do nothing, it is the Father within.
I surrender the fear to God, He deals with it for me.
The strength lies in the humility to let God work through us.
The ego feels that it should do something about everything.
There is our business, other peoples business and God's business.
The more time we spend getting our own house in order the better.
With love and respect for you Beren

frank samuel
6th July 2010, 15:22
Yes Beren all true.
The dark feed on negativity and fear.
Its up to us to walk forward with faith and humility in our heart.
We haven't the spiritual energy to win through unaided, what is heavy to us is is a feather to the Divine.
We need to forgive the dark for they know not what they do.
Our act of forgiveness shines the light of the Creator on them till not even a shadow of darkness remains.
The darkness only has the power our fear and negativity gives, they are energy vampires.
Remove the energy and they dissolve.
Chris

Chris you are absolutely right. If you want to know how to conquer evil or negativity just look at Nelson Mandela's example, over 20 years in prison of pain and torture, yet he forgave his enemy and embrace him as a friend thus through this type of heart the impossible became possible, he melted and heal the heart of a whole nation . The source of all has a heart of compassion and forgiveness, thus in liberating ourselves from entities that feed on fear and insecurity, just turn it off. Smile, love and embrace even those that offend you and just like Mandela you can make the impossible become possible. Your enemy will become your friend, fear can become courage, hate can become love.

Many many blessings to all.:thumb::wub:

kriya
6th July 2010, 16:51
Beren,

I think if you like to fight, then you will fight.

If you want to live by the sword, then prepare to die by it.

If you want to rise above it, you can.

If you are attacked, then you at some level invited it, but you have a choice how to respond.


This is not necessarily so John. As the nearer one gets to God the more evil forces try to attack you. Ultimately, they can not harm you, but that is not from lack of trying. A strong will and determination to succeed are required. I can attest to this in my own life.

Love,

Kriya

greybeard
6th July 2010, 21:35
This is not necessarily so John. As the nearer one gets to God the more evil forces try to attack you. Ultimately, they can not harm you, but that is not from lack of trying. A strong will and determination to succeed are required. I can attest to this in my own life.

Love,

Kriya

While I can see the truth of what John says, and that does apply at some point, but certainly as one has removed a lot of the obstacles to enlightenment, the light grows stronger and brighter, and that attracts the attention of the dark.

Many a Guru has been seduced by the attraction of power and that higher vibration of love also attracts female followers who want to sleep with the master.
So the position of teacher can be abused, miss used, the high vibration is lost and the teacher crash lands.
A genuine long term mutual attraction is different but to use people knowingly is some thing else.
I watched the film of Padre Peo and he was tempted by the devil who showed his female spiritual companion in a sexually attractive way.
Of course it was a illusion but if Padre Peo had given up his vow of chastity that would have been a massive victory for the dark side.
Jesus was also tempted by the devil being offered power on earth.
So it is something to be aware of when you are on the spiritual path.

The lower astral is greatly threatened by the ongoing spiritual evolution of the human race.
It will do all that it can to induce fear and tempt people away from spiritual progress.

Some thing also to be aware of is that before the third eye begins to open there is a certain naivety, forgiving is one thing, condoning some thing else.
The spiritually advanced is astute and exercises extreme discernment.
The spiritual path is not all hearts and roses.

Love Chris

Beren
6th July 2010, 21:52
The lower astral is greatly threatened by the ongoing spiritual evolution of the human race.
It will do all that it can to induce fear and tempt people away from spiritual progress.

Some thing also to be aware of is that before the third eye begins to open there is a certain naivety, forgiving is one thing, condoning some thing else.
The spiritually advanced is astute and exercises extreme discernment.
The spiritual path is not all hearts and roses.

Love Chris

Chris, you touched the point here.
All I am trying to say is that we`re dealing with things totally unaware of their state of being. We know the info about them (but even that just partially) ,but we can`t really say what are they...

And we`re in the process of learning... Everything is being thrown upon us ,most of the times we can`t cope with all- and that`s the thing they wish ... When you are overwhelmed ,you succumb.

Wars and fights and swords ...those things are just figures of speech to explain emotional and mental daily struggles of all.
A day will dawn when we will overcome,all that "their names are found in book of life"-(another figure of speech...).

Beren
6th July 2010, 21:59
John,
I understand what you wish to say and think that we`re speaking about similar things. But from a different angle.
Also Kriya said thing that is very true. Ultimately if we choose light ,we win. We then became sons & daughters of God. But until the moment of our glorification we are attacked non stop . In order to be stopped and diverted from our decision to choose light.
Until a day comes when Creator say : "it`s finally enough ! " -we will not find our complete rest from attacks. Attacks in all imaginable ways...Wars and fights ,despite being sometimes just figures of speech ,are really happening,it`s just we don`t talk about them.
A talk would help since then we `d start to overcome the deceits thrown upon us...

truthseekerdan
6th July 2010, 22:18
John,
Ultimately if we choose light ,we win. We then became sons & daughters of God. But until the moment of our glorification we are attacked non stop . In order to be stopped and diverted from our decision to choose light.


We are all sons & daughters of God, but are we all aware of this? How many of us are in touch with the deeper soul that is ourself, that is our true self, while we inhabit the corporeal body? How many of us can go in a day-to-day existence living with the temptations thrown at him, and living with everything that he has? Lord Jesus could have said, "Stop, no, I refuse to go through this!" But he did not. Therefore, that is why he is different from us.

He is what we all can be however, it requires knowledge and a pure heart.
This is what we all must strive for. It is possible. Jesus said he is the Way.
If we can but open our eyes and our hearts, we should see this.
Lord Jesus showed us that it is possible to grow.
That in order to escape and to attain the freedom and the knowledge of love, that you (soul) must grow (evolve).
In the end He came to save us from ourselves. Don't believe it? Look around...

Love to all,

Dan

Jonathon
6th July 2010, 22:22
If I could just add... the word 'attack' assumes there is something to defend. Perhaps 'test' is a better word to use. This way you see the challenge as something of a puzzle to solve, hill to climb etc. An opportunity.

It is unfortunate in my view that 'fight' language seems to permeate Christian language and teachings (this has been my experience). This style of language has a sneaky and subtle way of changing the intent from one of non-resistance to that of heavy resistance. War, battle, fight, casting out, damn you satan and so on. All fully counter to the teachings of Jesus.

Anchor
6th July 2010, 22:31
This is not necessarily so John. As the nearer one gets to God the more evil forces try to attack you. Ultimately, they can not harm you, but that is not from lack of trying. A strong will and determination to succeed are required. I can attest to this in my own life.

I don't see you disagreeing with me. You get the lessons you need. Obviously determination is necessary - though I think of it as focus.

John..

Anchor
6th July 2010, 23:07
John,
I understand what you wish to say and think that we`re speaking about similar things. But from a different angle.
Also Kriya said thing that is very true. Ultimately if we choose light ,we win. We then became sons & daughters of God. But until the moment of our glorification we are attacked non stop . In order to be stopped and diverted from our decision to choose light.
Until a day comes when Creator say : "it`s finally enough ! " -we will not find our complete rest from attacks. Attacks in all imaginable ways...Wars and fights ,despite being sometimes just figures of speech ,are really happening,it`s just we don`t talk about them.
A talk would help since then we `d start to overcome the deceits thrown upon us...


Our views are definitely not dissimilar. I would say though that you have a dramatic flair - perhaps it was this that prompted me to comment in the first place.

The path to expanding consciousness need not be one filled with drama - the clash of swords, the rattle of guns, the swipe of a demon's talon or the siren call of a harpy.

Many westerners who have lived comfortable lives like fights - we grew up on war films, on Hollywood heroes. It is how we were programmed. Others have had less comfortable lives and have grown up directly impacted by wars and real hardship - still programmed in the context of conflict. Many others, through our lack of sharing don’t have a moment to think as they struggle every moment for food and water.

At some point there is a growing realization that as part of all this I (like you and everyone else reading this) have a responsibility for all of it. As we intellectually come into the realization that we are part of an all encompassing whole, then we start to see that everything that happens is basically down to each of us.

That realization is the gradual "awakening" to the knowledge that you are not a powerless being living a flawed, distorted and challenged by life’s slings and arrows, but you are a (or a part of a) creator being with infinite abundance at your disposal – members of the great scriptwriters guild!

The creator says "enough" when you do. When you can honestly say "I and the father are one" that is when enough is enough!

Until then, we play the game – together. Increasingly more of us will re-focus our intent on harmony. That is what I want. Harmony.

What we are now about is learning how to wield creative power together - in concert - forgiving the odd misdemeanour and "error". I quote "error" because ultimately there is no such thing. Everything that happens is meant to, it all has its purpose and reason. Right now we don’t always see it. We have lived many lives as individual souls, but now are starting to take the steps towards our group soul. We have many differences and these differences are being given expression in conflict.

As we form our human group, not one single one is to be left behind. No matter how evil we deem the illusion of their/our making, or what poison script drips from their quill onto the book of life.

The darkest soul you can imagine is ultimately your brother – and sooner or later – we will come to terms! Knowing this we move on and along the way we learn by distortion, we forgive, but we don’t forget. We crystallize hard won wisdom. What is done by each of us is done by, for and to all of us.

Soon, and specifically due to the nature of this moment and the changes that are upon our part of the manifest universe – rapid progress and change is felt. It is a wave of change, and a wave we ride. That is why I posted “Ride the wave.” (I can’t remember if it was this forum or the last one now that things seem to move so fast).

I do see a golden future for us all. From the remnant ugliness, beauty will be restored. Even with the state of things today, the sun still shines the birds still sing. We are not doomed. WE will win. Even over a bloodstained battlefield beauty can be seen in nature. Even among the piles of waste left by a sick and disharmonious civilizations, beautiful plants do grow through. Nature has her own war – which she will win.

Such is the intensity and complexity of the expression we create.

John..

Steven
6th July 2010, 23:24
Wow! John, I feel very close to your perspective here. Inspired you are brother!

Namaste, Steven

bettye198
6th July 2010, 23:41
Thoughts and the spoken language can create alterations in the morphogenetic field. All thoughts are things manifest and are eternally stored there. Gives new meaning to how we live our life and think and speak doesn't it?

frank samuel
7th July 2010, 00:29
John your words ring very true, our souls have gone through many life cycles, some good and some deem evil, yet here we are given another opportunity to start anew. Just like we have been given that opportunity so do others have another opportunity to grow, regrow and transform their lives from an ugly troll if you will to a beautiful butterfly. It is the same for each and every one of us. In that sense that which you perceive to be your enemy is in fact another reflection of you, the man or woman in the mirror.

Many many blessings to all.:wub:

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 00:53
War, battle, fight, casting out, damn you satan and so on. All fully counter to the teachings of Jesus.


what did Jesus cast out of people Jonathon




As we form our human group, not one single one is to be left behind. No matter how evil we deem the illusion of their/our making, or what poison script drips from their quill onto the book of life.


there is a naive flair in your words John


good thing you're not a Judge or a referee

for what you speak of is unfair to the Just

Anchor
7th July 2010, 01:44
there is a naive flair in your words John

good thing you're not a Judge or a referee

for what you speak of is unfair to the Just

Sorry Redzra, I don't understand what you have said. I probably am naive by most standards, but can you please elaborate on what you mean?

How am I being unfair?

John..

Celine
7th July 2010, 01:48
i am wary of that war..

tired in my soul..

Jonathon
7th July 2010, 02:10
[QUOTE=RedeZra;32618]
what did Jesus cast out of people Jonathon

Well I'll go with the obvious track here and answer: on multiple occasions Jesus cast out demons. The question here is how this is interpreted and redirected. Did he fight, attack or otherwise demonstrate aggressive behavior toward the entity or did he stand in his light, empowered by the I AM that HE IS? The latter is my interpretation.

The 'casting out' I have come accustomed to hearing has more to do with aggression and separation via highlighting themselves as THE chosen people... cast out the Muslims, cast out the godless and so on.

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 02:10
I probably am naive by most standards, but can you please elaborate on what you mean?

How am I being unfair?


yes John it's naive to think that those who choose to do evil

will not be judged and punished for their crimes against the just

Jonathon
7th July 2010, 02:16
yes John it's naive to think that those who choose to do evil

will not be judged and punished for their crimes against the just

'Evil' and 'just' are contextual - culturally defined - which is a product of what the majority or most capable believe. Ultimately each is their own judge. Free will means the right to choose and modify the journey based on your own experience and definition. You are ultimately responsible for yourself.

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 02:46
'Evil' and 'just' are contextual - culturally defined - which is a product of what the majority or most capable believe. Ultimately each is their own judge. Free will means the right to choose and modify the journey based on your own experience and definition. You are ultimately responsible for yourself.


no Jonathon good and evil are universal and hard coded in our psyche

it's not science but common sense

some cultures got it wrong down the hallway of history but that doesn't make it right


yes you are responsible for yourself

but if you do evil and believe you can get away with it or lightly judge yourself

you are mistaken


you might be a crown achievement of Creation

but you are not an Angel of the Assembly nor the Creator


the supreme Consciousness is not only Compassionate but also Just

Solphilos
7th July 2010, 03:14
no Jonathon good and evil are universal and hard coded in our psyche

it's not science but common sense

some cultures got it wrong down the hallway of history but that doesn't make it right


yes you are responsible for yourself

but if you do evil and believe you can get away with it or lightly judge yourself

you are mistaken


you might be a crown achievement of Creation

but you are not an Angel of the Assembly nor the Creator


the supreme Consciousness is not only Compassionate but also Just

All of this is based on the false assumption that there is such a thing as right and wrong, and there is not. There is no good and evil, although there is a positive and negative polarity.
Neither is superior to the other, and there is no punishment for choosing the 'negative'. They are both necessary to keep the universe in balance, and leaning towards one side and in opposition to the other leads to folly.

Jonathon
7th July 2010, 03:19
no Jonathon good and evil are universal and hard coded in our psyche

it's not science but common sense

some cultures got it wrong down the hallway of history but that doesn't make it right


yes you are responsible for yourself

but if you do evil and believe you can get away with it or lightly judge yourself

you are mistaken


you might be a crown achievement of Creation

but you are not an Angel of the Assembly nor the Creator


the supreme Consciousness is not only Compassionate but also Just

If anything is programmed into our psyche, then we did it to ourselves as a product of our choices, however it's pretty easy to look across a multitude of cultural bounds to prove this is not so. From my perspective I can't imagine how a pre-programmed definition wouldn't be a free will inhibitor and therefore counter to creation. Not to be argumentative or obtuse but just to enlighten point, define evil, good, wrong, common (as in common sense) and psyche for me from your context.

frank samuel
7th July 2010, 03:31
As our society is full of prisons, punishing those who commit crimes against others, every year more and more people fill these prison walls. Punishment seems not to deter people from committing crimes, worse of all it does very little to reform and reeducate these inmates, many a victim of their own past. For example as some of these child abusers where in fact victims of child abuse themselves. Yes those that commit a crime should face some type of punishment yet each and every person can learn or relearn from their past mistakes. Many people simply do not remember that in past lives many of us where not saints but far from it, as your soul is infinite it will eventually learn the lessons needed. How many millions of life cycles has brought you to this moment in time where now you can hold yourself accountable for your actions. In the name of a righteous God we have become judge and jurors over the fate of the lives of others. For me knowing who I am, who I was and what we can all become gives me the hope to know someday we will all hold ourselves accountable and finally learn the lessons we need to learn and maybe just maybe we can begin to recreate our world thereby reaching our true potential .

Many many blessings to all.:thumb:

Anchor
7th July 2010, 03:39
yes John it's naive to think that those who choose to do evil

will not be judged and punished for their crimes against the just

Ahh I see what you are saying.

I could not agree less.

Not only do you think I am wrong, but you judge me naive for thinking it. That is ok by me, it is your opinion. I am sure your system of judgement empowers you sufficiently in this regard to make such statements.

In my opinion: each of us, including you, are our own worst enemies and our own judges.

I think that no-one but yourself can truly judge you - except some pretender using some pretext to curtail your ultimate freedom.

John..

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 04:07
From my perspective I can't imagine how a pre-programmed definition wouldn't be a free will inhibitor and therefore counter to creation. Not to be argumentative or obtuse but just to enlighten point, define evil, good, wrong, common (as in common sense) and psyche for me from your context.


very well this free will inhibitor is called conscience or common sense

it is called common for we all share it and it is a moral and mental compass

so we can distinguish right from wrong - good from bad - positive from negative



you know what is good and right and you know what is evil and wrong

and you don't need anyone to tell you the difference

for it is hard coded in your Psyche which is the Soul Mind complex


now when Psyche is clothed in Matter as in a physical body

it is facinated with the outward show of the senses and forgets itself within

and believes the world to be more real than itself

and so mistakes are made for not adhering to the inner Reality

which naturally knows right from wrong


wait and see until you loose your physicality

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 04:11
I think that no-one but yourself can truly judge you - except some pretender using some pretext to curtail your ultimate freedom


well John seems to me you think you created the Universe

Anchor
7th July 2010, 04:34
well John seems to me you think you created the Universe

Yes and No, I think we all did.

Jonathon
7th July 2010, 04:40
very well this free will inhibitor is called conscience or common sense

it is called common for we all share it and it is a moral and mental compass

so we can distinguish right from wrong - good from bad - positive from negative



you know what is good and right and you know what is evil and wrong

and you don't need anyone to tell you the difference

for it is hard coded in your Psyche which is the Soul Mind complex


now when Psyche is clothed in Matter as in a physical body

it is facinated with the outward show of the senses and forgets itself within

and believes the world to be more real than itself

and so mistakes are made for not adhering to the inner Reality

which naturally knows right from wrong


wait and see until you loose your physicality

Gosh I'm so sorry Red, but that response is so distorted I barely know where to begin with it. Are you saying that conscience and common sense are pre-programmed? Fixed definitions of good and evil? Based on what? Do you believe that people who perform what you (yourself) would define as evil acts know they are performing that evil? In my experience, very few have such context... they have a myriad of their own personal distortions based on their own experience and culturing. Westerners consider cheating unethical. Some eastern cultures consider it good use of opportunity. How do you explain this with a pre-programmed definition? How do you resolve the free-will implications? What's the point of choosing if you are limited to a single choice? And isn't that effectively slavery? How do you resolve that?

Soul Mind Complex? What is that from your point of view? Can you provide some context? What is the inner reality you are referring to? Mistakes? What exactly do you call a mistake? Isn't everything a learning experience? Can you kind of see where this is going? Despite the fact that we speak the same language, we clearly have completely different sets of experiences that define who and what we are... it's all in the context. Words are fictionalizations of experience - a mere conveyance of our OWN truths/experiences. How do you resolve this disparity with fixed psyche parameters?

Let's start back at definitions of evil, just, common, wrong etc. What you may find is that you are unable to define those words outside of your own cultural context. Naturally, that was the point.

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 04:48
Yes and No, I think we all did.

your Body did not create it

your Mind made it come into vision

your individual personality as a Soul did not create it

so the Supreme spirit made it come into fruition for you to enjoy it

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 05:30
Gosh I'm so sorry Red, but that response is so distorted I barely know where to begin with it..


well Jonathon perhaps you don't want to understand


you bet I say that conscience which is common sense is pre-programmed

but I also say that when you are born with a body into this world

common sense has to compete with your senses


say you want another man's wife

common sense says stay away but your senses say indulge

see

now you say that some eastern cultures consider cheating good use of opportunity

lol really what cultures


sometimes a wrong might become a cultural habit but that doesn't make it right


are you really saying that you don't know right from wrong

then pick up a good Book


Im saying you can choose wrong even if you know it's wrong

it happens all the time

but conscience is there to make you think twice


the Soul Mind complex is you surviving when the body dies


now after death you are without a physical nervous system

and common sense no longer has to compete with the physical senses

so most things will be crystal clear

Moemers
7th July 2010, 06:09
Common sense, and laws and rules and regulations and morals - are based solely on arbitrary cultural standards.

Nothing has meaning - it simply is - until we project our experiences and reality upon them.

The screen you're staring at right now exists. But everything behind you does not. When you turn around, the screen will cease being.

The light is hitting the sensors in your eyes, which is sending a signal to your brain to decode, which allows you to see. But until that signal is sent...

Your consciousness is. What your consciousness is experience isn't.

Jonathon
7th July 2010, 06:33
well Jonathon perhaps you don't want to understand


you bet I say that conscience which is common sense is pre-programmed

but I also say that when you are born with a body into this world

common sense has to compete with your senses


say you want another man's wife

common sense says stay away but your senses say indulge

see

now you say that some eastern cultures consider cheating good use of opportunity

lol really what cultures


sometimes a wrong might become a cultural habit but that doesn't make it right


are you really saying that you don't know right from wrong

then pick up a good Book


Im saying you can choose wrong even if you know it's wrong

it happens all the time

but conscience is there to make you think twice


the Soul Mind complex is you surviving when the body dies


now after death you are without a physical nervous system

and common sense no longer has to compete with the physical senses

so most things will be crystal clear

If I did not want to understand, I would not ask questions. Would you mind answering those you left out?

To respectfully address yours, that would be the Chinese culture.

Next, wife is cultural. If I'm a traditional Sicilian Catholic, the context of that entire example you presented will be far different than if I'm born into an indigenous tribe. One may consider the woman their property while the other may have an open and sharing community without the concept of a wife. So, no that doesn't work.

I'm not saying I don't know right from wrong, I'm saying I know right and wrong from my own learned context which is then skewed by my individual, essential nature based on my collective experience. By your claim there should be an equal amount of crime (also a contextual word) throughout various cultures and socio-economic backgrounds due to an in-born parameter. Obviously, this is not the case.

Do I carry my experience within my core being from incarnation to incarnation? Yes, however in this density with a mighty heavy veil, which is necessary to ensure freedom of experience. From that point of view, perhaps we have some common ground. However each experience and experiencer is unique in what is brings in and takes out. ANY form of control parameter (especially a universal behavioral one) not only limits the experience, it also defeats the whole purpose of creation in my opinion. A fish can only grow so large in a small pond. Further, specific incarnational lessons may be chosen in order to balance the experience, therefore in one instance I may be a murderer while in the other a martyr - this fundamentally requires different starting qualities, if you will. Certainly the journey back to source requires a balanced understanding of all aspects. All roads lead back to One. Free will ensures the greatest possible variety of the creator experiencing itself.

greybeard
7th July 2010, 13:45
Hi Guys
Its not a question of right or wrong - good versus evil.
Its a question of vibration /energy.
The "system" is self regulating via attractor fields.
There is if you like a sliding scale of vibration with creator at the top --- fastest vibration. Infinite unmeasurable beyond our understanding,
If you see God a life then at the top is that which is most life supporting then, the support diminishes till it is life diminishing, depleting, heavy slow vibration.
If you see God as light then its extremely bright down to dim then an absence of light. Not opposite but diminishing scale.

Every action or deed has a vibration and we are the total vibration of everything we have done, nothing is unrecorded in the field of consciousness.
Every act has natural consequences -- no one gets off scot free -- its not a punishment.
Every life supporting act also has consequences --- it is not a reward.

On death the soul gravitates naturally to a concordant vibratory field.
"In my Fathers house are many mansions"
So if your intentions and action have been life supporting your vibration rises.
If your actions have been selfish and to the degree that they have not supported life in general you will graduate to a lower vibrtion heaven or at worst a low astral realm (Hell) on death.
If your vibration has risen enough you dont come back to earth which is like a from of purgatory, we have a chance to balance "negative" karma.
If we reincarnate then we come in at the same vibration that we left our last incarnation with so the "system" is fair.
Through out life we attract that which is concordant with our vibration so we literalily reap that which we sow.
We give out love respect harmony humor then that comes back to us sooner or later, but nor necessarily back from who ever we gave to.
Hope this helps
Chris

truthseekerdan
7th July 2010, 14:41
The "you" who is chasing enlightenment will never become enlightened. Instead of striving towards some distant goal that you will never reach, Adyashanti invites you to stop and ask: How am I avoiding the enlightenment that is already present in each moment? How am I seeing separation where it doesn't exist?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WpUuNN-BLw

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WpUuNN-BLw

Beren
7th July 2010, 15:48
High vibration or low vibration ... the point is we may speak about it but we do not feel it ...yet.
We fell the consequences of both. It shows us did we sow in good or in bad. Whatever we sow, it will bear the fruit...

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 16:34
If I did not want to understand, I would not ask questions. Would you mind answering those you left out?


I think I did comment upon just about every question you posed


Consciousness is not a blank state but imbued with qualities like Bliss Compassion and Righteousness


most of us are closest to this Consciousness when we are in deep sleep

that's why we feel refreshed when we wake up to greet another morning

and go about our day in a waking state of amnesia

which the nervous system with it's senses present to us as the old familiar world


this Consciousness has always cultivated and inspired mankind from the get go

it taught us most every arts and mode of living and brought us civilization from the very beginning


this Consciousness is not a blank state but imbued with qualities like Bliss Compassion and Righteousness


this Consciousness is the core of your Being but that doesn't imply that you are aware of it

but it is the purpose of life

to raise your awarness to this the Most high presence which is not a blank state

but Bliss Compassion and Righteousness



you cannot hope to know yourself if you revel in wrong and cling to error

or choose evil before goodness


this is common sense and is hard coded as conscience within yourself


you are free to rebel and do the opposite of what is expected of you

but there are consequences

like house arrest in hell hehe

truthseekerdan
7th July 2010, 17:09
Many westerners who have lived comfortable lives like fights - we grew up on war films, on Hollywood heroes. It is how we were programmed. Others have had less comfortable lives and have grown up directly impacted by wars and real hardship - still programmed in the context of conflict. Many others, through our lack of sharing don’t have a moment to think as they struggle every moment for food and water.

At some point there is a growing realization that as part of all this I (like you and everyone else reading this) have a responsibility for all of it. As we intellectually come into the realization that we are part of an all encompassing whole, then we start to see that everything that happens is basically down to each of us.

That realization is the gradual "awakening" to the knowledge that you are not a powerless being living a flawed, distorted and challenged by life’s slings and arrows, but you are a (or a part of a) creator being with infinite abundance at your disposal – members of the great scriptwriters guild!

The creator says "enough" when you do. When you can honestly say "I and the father are one" that is when enough is enough!

Until then, we play the game – together. Increasingly more of us will re-focus our intent on harmony. That is what I want. Harmony.

What we are now about is learning how to wield creative power together - in concert - forgiving the odd misdemeanour and "error". I quote "error" because ultimately there is no such thing. Everything that happens is meant to, it all has its purpose and reason. Right now we don’t always see it. We have lived many lives as individual souls, but now are starting to take the steps towards our group soul. We have many differences and these differences are being given expression in conflict.

As we form our human group, not one single one is to be left behind. No matter how evil we deem the illusion of their/our making, or what poison script drips from their quill onto the book of life.

The darkest soul you can imagine is ultimately your brother – and sooner or later – we will come to terms! Knowing this we move on and along the way we learn by distortion, we forgive, but we don’t forget. We crystallize hard won wisdom. What is done by each of us is done by, for and to all of us.

Soon, and specifically due to the nature of this moment and the changes that are upon our part of the manifest universe – rapid progress and change is felt. It is a wave of change, and a wave we ride. That is why I posted “Ride the wave.” (I can’t remember if it was this forum or the last one now that things seem to move so fast).

I do see a golden future for us all. From the remnant ugliness, beauty will be restored. Even with the state of things today, the sun still shines the birds still sing. We are not doomed. WE will win. Even over a bloodstained battlefield beauty can be seen in nature. Even among the piles of waste left by a sick and disharmonious civilizations, beautiful plants do grow through. Nature has her own war – which she will win.

Such is the intensity and complexity of the expression we create.

John..

Dear John, thank you for expressing wonderful thoughts in 'your' detailed message.
I want you to know that it resonates strongly within 'myself' as well my friend. :love:
Like you said, at this level of consciousness 'we live' in where many see divisions instead
of oneness, 'we create' our own demise going on the same path of destruction that we
chose prior to this epoch. We are 'given another chance' to learn from our 'mistakes'.

The intent for us is to transcend this level, and enter a new level of consciousness
based on Oneness and Unconditional Love, just like Lord Jesus showed us the Way that
is possible to follow if one chooses to grow (evolve) spiritually. Indeed He was at that level
of consciousness that 'ordinary humans' could not understand or grasp at that time due
to their low spiritual level. We are at a point in 'time' now where could accumulate knowledge
more than ever before, when you actually needed more 'lifetimes' to achieve the same amount.

Everything is accelerating including the illusion of 'time' it's a proven scientific fact.
We have reached the 'crossroad' of letting the 'old way' of thinking dissolve, and to embrace
the new way of consciousness that will catapult us into living in Harmony. This will also enable
greater things to be achieved once 'our God given powers' will activate just like they used to be.
At that moment humanity will be ready to join the galactic and multiversal communities.
There is more, but words don't do justice at what will be revealed, I'll let you all draw your own conclusions...:)

Love to you, and all,

Dan

RedeZra
7th July 2010, 18:28
Indeed He was at that level of consciousness that 'ordinary humans' could not understand or grasp at that time due to their low spiritual level.


why do you think we are more spiritual than our ancestors

greybeard
7th July 2010, 19:05
why do you think we are more spiritual than our ancestors

Thats a very good question RedeZra.
Who knows for sure as we do go through cycles.
There is plenty of evidence that we were technically evolved to the point that we generated nuclear explosions and had flying machines, there is also much to suggest there was a previous Golden age where we were spiritually evolved.
The Sancript language is the oldest we have regarding recording spiritual truth, it is also a very sophisticated written language, very precise and evolved.
The Buddha said of some of his teaching that it would not be relevant for approx three thousand years, thats now.
When Jesus said I am the way he might have meant that the "I am presence, Christ consciousness is the way" it makes no sense at all if we could not emulate what he did. God declared "I am what I am" if my memory serves me well.

If the path is enlightenment all that we need has be known and given freely for many thousands of years.
Its not a goal, not something to be attained. The illumined state shines forth when all that is not of God is removed. All concepts, all belief systems, all conditioning.
The clouds hide the sun but when removed the sun shines forth.
So enlightenment requires action to remove the obstacles to enlightenment. Neity neity (cant spell) not this not this.

Regards Chris

shiva777
7th July 2010, 19:34
The Guardian Alliance teachings through Ashayana Deane experienced...

week 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYK8g-4R_do&feature=player_embedded#!

week 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaAsj6-DM0s&feature=player_embedded


week 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWhmkQTuuGM&feature=player_embedded#!

these are the techniques she is using

http://www.azuritepress.com/techniques/new_technique_outline.php

Beren
7th July 2010, 20:45
One of the reasons I started this thread is exactly these replies here. By reading them we see that all of us are influenced. INFLUENCED
I will repeat ,we are mostly unaware of that.
And there the spirit world is being using us. Caught us off our terrain. Knowledge is the key.
Also Jonathon,

I believe Redezra has answered your questions but I`d add this story;
I knew a guy who once did next thing. I told him that I think smoking is bad for him. He went on philosophy and its way for the next 30 minutes to explain me that actually cigarettes are good for you.
He tried and explained and called this theory and that theory ,this and that example...
All to show me that black is really white and ,that actually white is black...

Now is he right?
No.
We all know the damage cigarettes are doing.
But he tried in vain to paint a different picture. In the end he failed. He didn`t convinced me that cigarettes are good for me.
He was not looking healthy and feeling good because he smoke a lot. And no matter of how good he felt while smoking ,that did not changed the truth that cigarettes were killing him...

Truth is always self evident.
No matter of our relativity towards all.

And remember those wise words : " Woe to them that make night of a day and day of a night..."
Words rightly uttered...

Jonathon
8th July 2010, 00:24
One of the reasons I started this thread is exactly these replies here. By reading them we see that all of us are influenced. INFLUENCED
I will repeat ,we are mostly unaware of that.
And there the spirit world is being using us. Caught us off our terrain. Knowledge is the key.
Also Jonathon,

I believe Redezra has answered your questions but I`d add this story;
I knew a guy who once did next thing. I told him that I think smoking is bad for him. He went on philosophy and its way for the next 30 minutes to explain me that actually cigarettes are good for you.
He tried and explained and called this theory and that theory ,this and that example...
All to show me that black is really white and ,that actually white is black...

Now is he right?
No.
We all know the damage cigarettes are doing.
But he tried in vain to paint a different picture. In the end he failed. He didn`t convinced me that cigarettes are good for me.
He was not looking healthy and feeling good because he smoke a lot. And no matter of how good he felt while smoking ,that did not changed the truth that cigarettes were killing him...

Truth is always self evident.
No matter of our relativity towards all.

And remember those wise words : " Woe to them that make night of a day and day of a night..."
Words rightly uttered...

Hello Beren,

Yes truth is self evident, that is, evident to the self and not necessarily the other self. Why is that? Because truth is in the experience. Any communication of that truth is a fiction. What makes it a fiction? The fact that I cannot experience your experience in the precise way that you experienced it =) Your description of that experience is full of contextual meanings and references that I have not and cannot experience in the same way.

The creator is neither dogmatic nor definable. All is within, all is allowed and all is one. The purpose in asking for definitions of good, evil, common (sense), wrong etc. (which were not answered) is that you will find that you cannot define these without context, which is to say they are universally gray (non-dogmatic, undefinable) - not black and white (dogmatic, definable). Believing that good and evil are universally defined means you also believe the creator is finite and, well, human - man making God of his own image or personal context.

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 03:29
Yes truth is self evident, that is, evident to the self and not necessarily the other self. Why is that? Because truth is in the experience. Any communication of that truth is a fiction.

The creator is neither dogmatic nor definable. All is within, all is allowed and all is one. The purpose in asking for definitions of good, evil, common (sense), wrong etc. (which were not answered) is that you will find that you cannot define these without context, which is to say they are universally gray (non-dogmatic, undefinable) - not black and white (dogmatic, definable). Believing that good and evil are universally defined means you also believe the creator is finite and, well, human - man making God of his own image or personal context.


if truth was in the eye of the beholder

we would have as many truths as there are eyes

and chaos is assured - and chaos we have


truth is universal and is a substratum of the universe

it does not change with the fashions of mind and the seasons of time


truth is eternal like light


when the soul inhabits a physical body

the nervous system brings the world into vision and the senses are distracted by appearances

and this focus on the external show of the world dims this inner light and obscures this inner truth


some are so caught up in this external show and are so out of touch with truth within

that they start to confuse right with wrong and night with day


truth pertains to being while facts and fiction are experiences of the senses


righteousness is acting in adherence to the universal truth within everything when dealing with the outside world


don't be deceived - adultery is universal unacceptable forever and ever - it is wrong no matter how many think it's right



no I will not talk about swinging - but it's obviously not so detestable as adultery for no hearts are hurt


common sense guys

Jonathon
8th July 2010, 04:37
if truth was in the eye of the beholder

we would have as many truths as there are eyes

and chaos is assured - and chaos we have

Precisely. The enternal truth: I AM. Chaos is the highest form of order. It is your inability to perceive it's perfection that negates your understanding of it.



truth is universal and is a substratum of the universe

it does not change with the fashions of mind and the seasons of time

truth is eternal like light

Truth is inextricable. Truth is not a substratum. There is no truth without experience... truth is the creator experiencing itself through it's many points (you and I and ALL that is). It is fluid and dynamic therefore changes at it's leisure and will. Your sense of singularity and will is your current perception of this truth hence truth is your experience.




when the soul inhabits a physical body

the nervous system brings the world into vision and the senses are distracted by appearances

and this focus on the external show of the world dims this inner light and obscures this inner truth

some are so caught up in this external show and are so out of touch with truth within

that they start to confuse right with wrong and night with day

Yes incarnation into this dense form presents the opportunity to experience the distortion toward separation. Belief in separation is the source of what we call 'the human condition' - the source of all suffering. Right and wrong are the red-headed step children of belief in separation - these are the judgments of men. Self-imposed parameters to control the flow of experience. These are choices made within the context of perceived 'chaos' as you alluded to above and stem from the inability of individuals to self-govern without a fixed reference point. God requires no reference point, for God is all there is.



truth pertains to being while facts and fiction are experiences of the senses

righteousness is acting in adherence to the universal truth within everything when dealing with the outside world

Quite right Red. The only thing I would add, is that righteousness is acting in adherence to your distilled singularity of universal truth, hence a man cannot be scorned for his ignorance, only by failing to act in accordance with his knowledge.



don't be deceived - adultery is universal unacceptable forever and ever - it is wrong no matter

how many think it's right no I will not talk about swinging - but it's obviously not so detestable as adultery for no hearts are hurt

common sense guys

Adultery is man's creation as is marriage. That's called community control. People are not property. Ownership is a truly silly concept. You do not / cannot own anything. You cannot steal what no one owns. That is common sense. Native American's thought the white man lost his marbles when he introduced them to the concept of ownership. This concept was so far removed from their understanding that they were easily swindled from their homeland. How can you own something that belongs to the earth? How can you own something that belongs to itself?

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 04:49
When Jesus said I am the way he might have meant that the "I am presence, Christ consciousness is the way" it makes no sense at all if we could not emulate what he did.


yes I believe so Chris

Jesus was a historical figure but Christ is universal consciousness

Jesus knew that he was not the body mind nor even soul but Spirit

so there is nothing wrong in showing devotion to the Jesus character

for it is a Name and a Form of universal consciousness


I don't condone for a minute that we are evolving animals


it seems that cataclysms has wiped out civilizations at least as advanced as us

perhaps there is a danger when high tech achievements are coupled with spiritual bankruptcy

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 05:05
The enternal truth: I AM


this I AM is imbued with certain Qualities like Truth Light Love

so it makes Truth Light Love the Substratum of the Universe

and not some empty concepts for you to mind juggle with


I want an apology right now lol

Jonathon
8th July 2010, 05:26
this I AM is imbued with certain Qualities like Truth Light Love

so it makes Truth Light Love the Substratum of the Universe

and not some empty concepts for you to mind juggle with


I want an apology right now lol

LOL. I appreciate your humor!

Imbue assumes truth, light and love were added to I AM. Sub-strata assumes inferior to or below. Truth, light and love are I AM. There is no separation. They exist as one. A blade of grass is long, green and thin... all qualities coexisting in its singular being-ness.

Complicated yet simple, isn't it! Full of paradox!

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 05:31
LOL. I appreciate your humor!

Truth, light and love are I AM. There is no separation. They exist as one. A blade of grass is long, green and thin... all qualities coexisting in its singular being-ness.

Complicated yet simple, isn't it! Full of paradox!


tnx I knew you would come to the right conclusion

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 05:57
All of this is based on the false assumption that there is such a thing as right and wrong, and there is not. There is no good and evil, although there is a positive and negative polarity.



welcome to la la land where everything goes and none is responsible

have some cotton candy upon this pink fluff... or is it plysh

Anchor
8th July 2010, 07:32
welcome to la la land where everything goes and none is responsible

have some cotton candy upon this pink fluff... or is it plysh

Such a pure anarchy does not imply any lack of responsibility. In fact it mandates complete and full responsibility.

Real, authentic, humans that are FREE are subject to nothing - no law, no false God and no judge.

I have no fear of such a world - which is lucky, because its just around the corner.

John..

greybeard
8th July 2010, 08:55
Such a pure anarchy does not imply any lack of responsibility. In fact it mandates complete and full responsibility.

Real, authentic, humans that are FREE are subject to nothing - no law, no false God and no judge.

I have no fear of such a world - which is lucky, because its just around the corner.

John..

Words are meaningless if taken out of context and they way you have expressed freedom here is I feel correct John.
My world would appear similar to that John. I can do what I like but my action is not rebellious, it does not knowingly impinge on others.
My doing what I like has become selfless service, in the main, without even realizing that it is happening.
There is an appropriate action that occurs without even knowing it to be so.
When mass consciousness rises to a much higher level then right action will just be a normality.
Non supportive actions would literally be "not thought of."
"Evil" is not attracted into my world though occasionally temptation arises and there are dark nights of the soul when I feel utterly alone, abandoned and unloved.
that is spite of every evidence to the contrary.
Times I just want to leave lesser love and go home to LOVE.
These times pass and I come out the other side all the stronger for it.
We seem to be in a holding area. Love and freedom just around the corner as John said and the old way just "round the bend"

Chris

Anchor
8th July 2010, 12:37
@greybeard: yes that is how I see it too. Evil is reduced to a label, a classification of a certain type of energy.

Just because you can do what you like doesn't mean you will start causing heartache to others or servicing self at the expense of others.

My core point is that the notion of external judgement, in anyway that really matters to you, is false. If you think you are to be judged by someone else then you are likely in FEAR of that judgement. Fear is cement binding the bricks of our prisons. People are said to be "god fearing" as if it is some kind of a complement - which in my books is tragic.

So where does that leave "Spiritual encounters of all kind - war for souls" - for me it is ongoing, background drama which is observed in the moment.

I get to choose when and if I want to get involved. That choice can be made variously at a sub-conscious, conscious, or super-conscious level - but it is my choice, and I will fear no judgement for my actions; but I will judge myself, and I will be responsible for every action, thought, word and deed that I set in motion.

Beren, may I express my extreme gratitude for this thread and the opportunity I have had to express some recently re-thought ideas in a newer way.

John..

Beren
8th July 2010, 12:40
Our views are definitely not dissimilar. I would say though that you have a dramatic flair - perhaps it was this that prompted me to comment in the first place.

The path to expanding consciousness need not be one filled with drama - the clash of swords, the rattle of guns, the swipe of a demon's talon or the siren call of a harpy.


John..

John, when I think deeper I found your words hmmm, at least thought provoking. It's a human tendency to infuse to unexplained things certain attributes. For example we think of angels as beings clothed in white robes and with wings... But in reality are they like that?
It's just the things that we can not explain - we try to simplify it.
A question for you John,
could you explain to wide array of people of various background ,say 500 years ago about what is an airplane?
How would you present a concept to ones whom does not have a connecting knowledge to it?

Beren
8th July 2010, 12:45
@greybeard: yes that is how I see it too. Evil is reduced to a label, a classification of a certain type of energy.

Just because you can do what you like doesn't mean you will start causing heartache to others or servicing self at the expense of others.

My core point is that the notion of external judgement, in anyway that really matters to you, is false. If you think you are to be judged by someone else then you are likely in FEAR of that judgement. Fear is cement binding the bricks of our prisons. People are said to be "god fearing" as if it is some kind of a complement - which in my books is tragic.

So where does that leave "Spiritual encounters of all kind - war for souls" - for me it is ongoing, background drama which is observed in the moment.

I get to choose when and if I want to get involved. That choice can be made variously at a sub-conscious, conscious, or super-conscious level - but it is my choice, and I will fear no judgement for my actions; but I will judge myself, and I will be responsible for every action, thought, word and deed that I set in motion.

Beren, may I express my extreme gratitude for this thread and the opportunity I have had to express some recently re-thought ideas in a newer way.

John..

I always welcome your valuable insights John.
It's the thing that as we type over keyboard we miss certain expressions that would be instantly recognized when talking.
;)

Anchor
8th July 2010, 12:59
A question for you John,
could you explain to wide array of people of various background ,say 500 years ago about what is an airplane?
How would you present a concept to ones whom does not have a connecting knowledge to it?

Yes - how to explain vision to a blind man, or color to one who can only see in black and white ?

I suppose one has to rely on abstract imagery. I think this was the skill of many poets.

In teaching these things we learn new ways to do it better - and often in our own way we learn from the teaching we ourselves perform.

I remember saying this on another forum - there is no teaching without learning and no learning without teaching. As you know I like the Ra material, and in there Ra refers often to "teach/learn" - this is often in the context of emphasizing that the teacher is not above or below the student. Teacher and student are aspects of the one, interacting in an expanding and nurturing way - the way of creation.

The teacher must learn about the student and adapt the methods to the specific needs of the student.

So to your point, if you are faced with such a challenge, you first learn about your audience so you can impart your information in the most meaningful way. This can of course take time ...

John..

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 13:31
Such a pure anarchy does not imply any lack of responsibility. In fact it mandates complete and full responsibility.

Real, authentic, humans that are FREE are subject to nothing - no law, no false God and no judge.

I have no fear of such a world - which is lucky, because its just around the corner.



why wait

we have this world now

everyone exercises free will everywhere


if everybody was of impeccable integrity we would have harmony already


if everyone was like you John and Chris and Beren and Johnathon and Solphilos

and many many others - we would probably live in a righteous and harmonious civilization


it is admirable but also naive to believe that everybody shares your high standards




Just because you can do what you like doesn't mean you will start causing heartache to others or servicing self at the expense of others.


no it doesn't mean that but it happens all the time in our world today

they got it wrong for it is not right

soon it will be set straight

Beren
8th July 2010, 14:31
RedeZra,

Have you noticed that people wish freedom and when they obtain it , they immediately abuse it?
Level of nowadays conscience is not high I'm afraid...

frank samuel
8th July 2010, 15:37
Sometimes when we preach to others we find that in reality the only person that needs to listen is the man in the mirror, for as we point the finger at others there's 3 fingers pointing back at us. The war we often do not see is the one we have to win, that is the war we create with words, silence of the heart through our daily actions quickly diminishes any inner struggles. Why? For one thing you're to busy to dwell on such things, soon enough your inner struggle diminishes. It is then that you realize by focusing on my inner war I will never be at peace.The secret in embracing your enemy is that you realize that the greatest enemy we could ever face is the one within. Even in the mist of hell you are at peace. We can learn a lot from the examples of Mother Theresa, Mandela, Desmond Tutu , Gandhi ,who face the internal enemy within by embracing the external enemy as a friend and long lost cherish brother . You choose the type of history you wish to create for yourself, family, friends,neighbors, community. A warm embrace is worth more than a thousand words.

Many many blessings to all. :thumb::wub:

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 16:00
Sometimes when we preach to others we find that in reality the only person that needs to listen is the man in the mirror, for as we point the finger at others there's 3 fingers pointing back at us.


to point a wrong is not to preach


sometimes it is right to raise the forefinger

but is it right to answer with the middle finger




Have you noticed that people wish freedom and when they obtain it , they immediately abuse it?
Level of nowadays conscience is not high I'm afraid...


some don't even believe in conscience

and when it kicks in they brush it of as a whim

greybeard
8th July 2010, 16:05
Sometimes when we preach to others we find that in reality the only person that needs to listen is the man in the mirror, for as we point the finger at others there's 3 fingers pointing back at us. The war we often do not see is the one we have to win, that is the war we create with words, silence of the heart through our daily actions quickly diminishes any inner struggles. Why? For one thing you're to busy to dwell on such things, soon enough your inner struggle diminishes. It is then that you realize by focusing on my inner war I will never be at peace.The secret in embracing your enemy is that you realize that the greatest enemy we could ever face is the one within. Even in the mist of hell you are at peace. We can learn a lot from the examples of Mother Theresa, Mandela, Desmond Tutu , Gandhi ,who face the internal enemy within by embracing the external enemy as a friend and long lost cherish brother . You choose the type of history you wish to create for yourself, family, friends,neighbors, community. A warm embrace is worth more than a thousand words.

Many many blessings to all. :thumb::wub:

Yes Frank there are quite a few here I would like to give a warm embrace to and your top of the list.
Chris

Celine
8th July 2010, 16:05
Hmm i believe it was greybeard that said...

It is ok to have a point of view...but not to point your view.

Beren
8th July 2010, 16:13
some don't even believe in conscience

and when it kicks in they brush it of as a whim


People do that often. It's childish . When seen from higher point of view many of God's children deeply in the past refused to grow up and went their own silly ways... The only thing now is that those silly ways often ended in bloodshed. ..

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 16:15
Hmm i believe it was greybeard that said...

It is ok to have a point of view...but not to point your view.



it's a nice saying

it is ok to have a point of view about wrong and right

as it is ok to point one's views on the wrong and the right

Celine
8th July 2010, 16:16
ummm really?

so who/what defines what is wrong and right then?

Your morale stick maybe a lot bigger..or shorter...then anothers...

who says who is right?

Bah old stale argument IMO

Beren
8th July 2010, 16:20
No wonder why we are here and now in this body- we did not learned the real lesson.
Eternal principles and truths we skimmed and by passed and now we got to re learn them or we will have no tomorrow.
Funniest thing is that all this things we talked on this thread are holding some truth to it but it all fails to deliver on the very moment we stop talking and look our selves.
Can we instantly be in the presence of Creator?
Can we heal others now? Can we instantly fly to other parts of Earth or somewhere in space? Can we say forgive me- or I forgive you? Can we raise or dear beloved dead friend who just died???

No ...and that is telling us something right?

But good thing is that at least some are taking first baby steps towards healing and ultimate learning.

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 16:24
ummm really?

so who/what defines what is wrong and right then?

Your morale stick maybe a lot bigger..or shorter...then anothers...

who says who is right?

Bah old stale argument IMO


well if you don't know the difference you are right to not speak on it

Celine
8th July 2010, 16:28
i never said i dont know the difference.


What is right for you may be wrong for another...

if you do not agree with this, i would love to know on what authority you stand , that makes you able to tell us what is right or wrong?

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 16:42
i never said i dont know the difference.


What is right for you may be wrong for another...

if you do not agree with this, i would love to know on what authority you stand , that makes you able to tell us what is right or wrong?



I don't know every right from wrong - just the basics

like it's wrong to lie decieve murder adulterate steal etc etc

I think you know too like everyone else


if someone tells me it's not wrong to do these things I consider him and her confused

Celine
8th July 2010, 16:54
All is balanced..

Intent, In my opinion is what defines right or wrong.

Lying...Murder...Adultery etc...cannot be blanketed under one "right or wrong" in my opinion..

If i Murdered Hitler... the act itself is wrong..but the intent balances it out. IMHO

frank samuel
8th July 2010, 16:57
Sometimes those that are blind can see a lot better than those that have eyesight. The heart is our strongest weapon for it can perform the greatest miracle of all, created by the source of all, LOVE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeriTXdLfZk&feature=related

Many many blessings to all.:wub:

Celine
8th July 2010, 17:10
*celine stands and claps *

HEAR HEAR!!

well said Frank heart

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 17:14
All is balanced..

Intent, In my opinion is what defines right or wrong.

Lying...Murder...Adultery etc...cannot be blanketed under one "right or wrong" in my opinion..

If i Murdered Hitler... the act itself is wrong..but the intent balances it out. IMHO



yes at the outset it's wrong to commit to lying murder adultary etc

now it has become a habit

and we see the result in the world

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 17:20
Can we instantly be in the presence of Creator?
Can we heal others now? Can we instantly fly to other parts of Earth or somewhere in space? Can we say forgive me- or I forgive you? Can we raise or dear beloved dead friend who just died???

No ...and that is telling us something right?



these things are impossible to achieve as long as one doesn't adhere to truth and righteousness

am I right or am I wrong lol

greybeard
8th July 2010, 17:41
I know I repeat myself but the finest explanation to queries raised by many seekers of truth is to be found in the book
Power vs Force / The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior"
Dr. David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the spiritual evolution of mankind.
www.veritaspub.com/

Please check out the publishers website fully.
My favorite book of his is "Discovery of the Presence of God"

I actually agree with both RedeZra and Celine which seems a contradiction but it depends on the spiritual level.
It also depends on intention and context. I could get a vet to put loved pet out of its misery and I have and entirely different story is if I go and shoot a dog for the fun of it. I havent ever killed life intentionally. Thats my choice.
I have a responsibility for my actions and there is something within me that encourages appropriate action given my intention and the circumstances.
That action may vary from person to person depending on many thing a lot of which are not even in awareness.

See my post no 13 and 45 on the thread

I have love for all on this thread regardless of varying opinions as I know the heart of every single one of you is in the right place.

Chris
Namaste

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 18:18
I actually agree with both RedeZra and Celine which seems a contradiction but it depends on the spiritual level.
It also depends on intention and context. I could get a vet to put loved pet out of its misery and I have and entirely different story is if I go and shoot a dog for the fun of it. I havent ever killed life intentionally. Thats my choice.



Celine says much I agree with as well


I don't know the right and wrong thing to think say and do in every encountered circumstance


but I believe the universal consciousness is perfect

and that I miss the mark every so often or maybe more


to shoot a dog for the fun of it must be wrong

to put a pet out of it's misery might not be wrong

at least not so wrong as shooting it for the fun of it


there are probably natural karmic implications in both incidents

perhaps ask the universal consciousness for assistance

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 19:53
is it not a wrong to close the eyes to the crimes and corruption of your fellow man and woman

greybeard
8th July 2010, 20:15
Awareness is very important RedeZra. Blinkered head in the sand is no use but neither is a full frontal attack.
We are back to what has worked against all odds.
Frank has mentioned several times Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, and others who have won through, using nonviolent ways.
Raising consciousness is the only effective long term answer, nothing else has worked.
Chris

RedeZra
8th July 2010, 20:45
Awareness is very important RedeZra. Blinkered head in the sand is no use but neither is a full frontal attack.

Frank has mentioned several times Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, and others who have won through, using nonviolent ways.
Raising consciousness is the only effective long term answer, nothing else has worked.
Chris


yes Im not thinking full frontal attack but at least an acknowledgement

as to what is righteous and what is not

so when we see wrong we are not silent but we speak up against it

and do the opposite of what the wrongdoers do

so as to set an example of peace and nonviolence

greybeard
8th July 2010, 21:16
yes Im not thinking full frontal attack but at least an acknowledgement

as to what is righteous and what is not

so when we see wrong we are not silent but we speak up against it

and do the opposite of what the wrongdoers do

so as to set an example of peace and nonviolence

There is no easy answer my friend.
The difficulty is balance.
Wars have been fought to right wrongs --- well war is war and innocent people die by the million in them.
Close to home the violence in Northern Ireland came to an end Ex IRA now in the Government.
Peace has existed for a period of time and now extremists are trying to start it all over again.
History the past is quoted and the fight declared as just to right wrongs.
Who's right? Any position can be justified everyone can prove their cause right and quote chapter and verse to justify their point of view and hence violence.
Anger arises at any injustice.
The work book part of "A Course in Miracles" is well worth a read. It says we are never angry for the reason we think we are angry and that small anger is just as dangerous and of the same energy as big anger,
I honestly think we have to let go of taking up positions.
The course says "Know that the moment you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion"
When we stop judging this is right or this is wrong then we are taking a massive step forward, It starts here.
If others want to save the world let them try.
That has never worked.
Every war has been caused by people trying to fix something by force, imposing their version of right on others.
He who wins the war writes the history book.
Ramana said. "The world you are trying to save doesn't even exist"
I say get you own personal world as right as you can.
If everyone does that then there is no problem.
Lead by example.
With love and respect for all concerned with having a better world.
C

Anchor
8th July 2010, 22:58
as to what is righteous and what is not

Your dilema, if you have one - I am not sure, is solved when you consider the standards by which you judge your actions righteous or otherwise.

Are you judging them based on the standards discerned from within? Or are you judging them based on the standards set by someone, thing, culture, civilization etc from without? In the former case, my position is that you stand on firm ground. In the latter case you are set up for a fall.

The next thing that happens is - what happens to consensus? What happens when person a's standards appear to differ from person b? Do we have conflict?

What I think we have is one or the other not being honest :) Because if everyone was able to follow thier heart, they would all end up going in the same direction AS ONE, in harmony with the divine intelligence that motivates all that is.

John..

shiva777
8th July 2010, 23:01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrqOnVemD2s

Beren
8th July 2010, 23:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrqOnVemD2s

One of the reasons this thread exists is to show people that entities that affect us all were one of those showed in that video- in their extreme physicality and blood thirst.
When they can not affect you in that level, they skip on another -shown in this thread. By affecting your thought patterns and provoking you. The tricky part is you are mostly unaware that they are perpetrators of things you feel or think...


And this is why I say we`re at war with them...
I won`t allow them to control me .Nevertheless is I`m off my guard and my guard being the good relationship with Creator, they will -rest assured- sniff me out and immediately attack me in all possible ways...
Remember that lie is different on every level so who ever think that is enlightened, you better watch your ground since your enlightenment will be tested by those who are en-darkened...

And again those things are not imaginations of my mind or soul experience. Never forget that for everyone tests or attacks are very personalized . You may not feel what I feel and encounter same things as I ...never the less THE SAME spirit stands behind it all. Spirit of rebellion, deceit,darkness, selfishness,boasting pride and lie.

That`s why it was "figure of speech-ED " as serpent... wiggly and slippery...

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 02:52
Your dilema, if you have one - I am not sure, is solved when you consider the standards by which you judge your actions righteous or otherwise.

Are you judging them based on the standards discerned from within? Or are you judging them based on the standards set by someone, thing, culture, civilization etc from without? In the former case, my position is that you stand on firm ground. In the latter case you are set up for a fall.


I am considering the standards set forth by both Buddha and Christ - which I accidently or naturally happen to agree with

these two spoke of not only love but truth and righteousness too - which they intimately knew from their high point of view

truth and love might imply righteousness but one cannot have one without the other

truth and love are the two wings we need to fly high


I think far too much focus has been on love only - nobody wants the truth

with only one wing one can't lift an inch

Anchor
9th July 2010, 03:14
....................

truthseekerdan
9th July 2010, 03:45
I think far too much focus has been on love only - nobody wants the truth

with only one wing one can't lift an inch

RedeZra, may I ask you how would you find the 'truth' if you don't connect with your Inner/Higher Self?
If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?
No evidence will convince you of the truth of what you do not want to find within.
Love is the answer. Namaste,

Dan

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 05:31
RedeZra, may I ask you how would you find the 'truth' if you don't connect with your Inner/Higher Self?

No evidence will convince you of the truth of what you do not want to find within.


hehe sure Dan

most say they are connected to a higher self - then sit back and pat themselves on the head
for saying that

without establishing any connection whatsoever - but just repeating a love mantra

which they confuse with emotions by the way - while they mistake instincts for intuition

they have no distinction for right and wrong - for they think they are right to do whatever they want

so they say love love but never a word about truth - for they don't know it and they don't want it


1st step to connect to a higher self is adherence to virtues - that means one must be able to distinct it from vices - else one will never connect - or one can surrender to the higher self

but I agree it's very easy to say - I am connected with my higher self and love is the answer

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 07:16
I honestly think we have to let go of taking up positions.
The course says "Know that the moment you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion"
When we stop judging this is right or this is wrong then we are taking a massive step forward, It starts here.




let's not accept cruelty by looking the other way - let us at least speak up when we see it


there is a somewhat famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets - one group after another



" THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up. "




an animated poem by Maurice Ogden called the Hangman

a hangman comes to town and executes the citizens one by one
as each citizen is executed - the others are afraid to object out of fear that they will be next



eivPlM2Vihg

frank samuel
9th July 2010, 09:16
Truth and righteousness in this side of the hemisphere as far as historical statistics go in the name of Christianity over 50 million Indians killed on both sides of the Americas, with another 100 million dying of diseases brought by the Europeans conquerors.

http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm

In the name of truth and righteousness people have proclaim their brand of truth as being absolute this somehow has given humans the right to kill each other thus the state of affairs of our world, past, present and if we don't learn form our mistakes this will also be our future.

Many many blessings to all.:wub:

greybeard
9th July 2010, 10:06
Hi Guys
We are in many ways saying the same but from different levels of perception.
I agree that we need to fly on two wings.
Again at the risk of boring people --- It is all to be found in Dr Hawkins books.
He warns of the wolves in sheep's clothing, he warns against naivety, he confirms the power of love vs the weakness of force.
The answer is first being fully aware ie both wings as mentioned by RedeZra then in the book is the knowledge of why these negatve things happen and are being done by a high percentage of the population
Knowledge is power and being aware of negativity is only part of it, it is necessary to know why the acts are happening, where the perpetrator is coming from and then appropriate and power full action can take place.
History speaks to us, Chamberlain thought he had done a peace deal with Hitler, Churchill maintained that it was not worth the paper it was written on. Churchill was accused of warmongering. Who was right? Why Churchill of course.
If he had been listened to millions of lives would have been saved.
Honestly most of the answers are to be found in Power vs Force.
People act according to the level of their consciousness without a rising of consciousness we will have more of the same for ever.
We raise our own consciousness we raise all others.
That is the ultimate answer.
A rising tide lifts all boats.

Love C

Beren
9th July 2010, 11:11
Truth and righteousness in this side of the hemisphere as far as historical statistics go in the name of Christianity over 50 million Indians killed on both sides of the Americas, with another 100 million dying of diseases brought by the Europeans conquerors.

http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm

In the name of truth and righteousness people have proclaim their brand of truth as being absolute this somehow has given humans the right to kill each other thus the state of affairs of our world, past, present and if we don't learn form our mistakes this will also be our future.

Many many blessings to all.:wub:


Frank,now, if you want to be fair you must notice that "Christianity " that caused all those deaths is NOT of the Christ. It's of the Vatican and its lust for power.
That is why truth must be spoken of and established since many use Christ and his words for excuse for vile things. Same Christ will be their judge.

One more thing ;
there are four things that are pillars of Creator. Four things that are of him and him.
Love - Justice -Wisdom-Power

All other virtues are emerging from that four.
Truth is his word. His word in every sense,either by literal form or things he utter,for whatever language Creator uses among all his creation he speaks truths.
It's just that we are mostly ignorant about many things and we simply don't "get" what Creator is saying to us. Spoken word in the flesh and to the flesh is the roughest and final conversation to beings. It means that if you have to speak aloud - it means that person whom the words are uttered is not understanding non of the other forms of Creator languages.

greybeard
9th July 2010, 11:25
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
The wisdom to know the difference.

After years of trying to change people events etc all with the best intention.
I have come to the conclusion that it is my responsibility to change me get me right.
if I do that the rest of my world automatically comes right.
Its a vanity to think I can change others.
I have enough difficulty changing me Lol.
I can set an example though.
I try to be the change I want to see.
We should listen to the likes of Gandhi, he got it more right, whatever right is, than most of us.
Love Chris

frank samuel
9th July 2010, 12:22
Beren the people who committed these atrocities throughout the course of history where people just like you and me, no different. They truly believe they understood the truth and that their faith gave them the right to conquer in the name of God. This is not the story of a particular religion rather the story of humans searching for an identity which is not found within this human form. It is your soul that connects you to the source of all, there is where the answers are. Still we identify with this 3 dimensional form and unfortunately commit errors in judging this temporal illusion as the sole reality. We are so much more, one day soon the veil will be lifted .

Many many blessings to all.:thumb::wub:

truthseekerdan
9th July 2010, 15:22
so they say love love but never a word about truth - for they don't know it and they don't want it


The only 'truth' that we need to grasp while in this 'flesh body' is the reality that only God IS. God = Unconditional Love. Everything else is just details. Our Father God is experiencing (experimenting) IT-Self through 'us' His Children, and everything else in this physical realm and Universe.

He also gave 'us' Free Will. However, many of His Children chose Not to become Love and grow to BE Sons / Daughters, but instead 'separated' and live like children in fear. The latter is the 'reality we live' in today. Jesus the Christ, volunteered to come down to 'our level' to help 'us' reconnect the missing link (Love) that will enable all of humanity to reach its full potential.

God the Father is waiting patiently, because he knows no such thing as time; waiting for His Children to uncover once again their true potential and destiny. How could humanity climb upward if it is constantly going round in circles repeating the same mistakes throughout history? This was what Jesus Christ (God in Human Flesh) came to 'save' humanity from.

Humanity needed an example, someone to show them the 'Way'. It was important that he come, as we all must come into a human physical body and be exposed to all the trials man must face. Jesus had to show us that he could rise above it. If he could do it, humankind could also. His goal was to show humanity through his example how they should live. That the greatest lesson to be learned was to Love their fellow creatures on earth. If Love was present, no further negative karma could be created. If Love was present, there would be no more wars and suffering.

To conclude here, is that the thirst for Knowledge of 'truth' and Love will set one free.
"If you have ears, pay attention!" (Matthew 13:9; Contemporary English Version)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmathQytipE&feature=related

greybeard
9th July 2010, 15:36
The only 'truth' that we need to grasp while in this 'flesh body' is the reality that only God IS. God = Unconditional Love. Everything else is just details. Our Father God is experiencing (experimenting) IT-Self through 'us' His Children, and everything else in this physical realm and Universe.

]
We are all waves of the Divine Ocean.
There only is One self.
"Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord"
It is a vanity to think we know what is right or wrong ( for others) in the big picture. Accepting that there is a universal concept of appropriate behavior.
Love all serve all.
Chris

Celine
9th July 2010, 15:38
Remember you are love.

Beren
9th July 2010, 17:39
Remember you are love.

That's a bold statement. But ultimately true.

truthseekerdan
9th July 2010, 17:41
We are all waves of the Divine Ocean.
There only is One self.
"Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord"
It is a vanity to think we know what is right or wrong ( for others) in the big picture. Accepting that there is a universal concept of appropriate behavior.
Love all serve all.
Chris

Chris, I really do agree (resonate) with your post here. (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?143-Life-is-as-it-is&p=591&viewfull=1#post591) :)

Love you brother, ~ Dan~

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 17:47
Truth and righteousness in this side of the hemisphere as far as historical statistics go in the name of Christianity over 50 million Indians killed on both sides of the Americas, with another 100 million dying of diseases brought by the Europeans conquerors.

http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm

In the name of truth and righteousness people have proclaim their brand of truth as being absolute this somehow has given humans the right to kill each other thus the state of affairs of our world, past, present and if we don't learn form our mistakes this will also be our future.


truth and righteousness is of course not about killing those that are wrong

it doesn't matter which faith one confesses to - both the heart and the scriptures say it's wrong to kill

whatever label we put on people - we are first and foremost humans

when we don't get right from wrong and break about every commandments in the scriptures
it is convenient to blame religion - when in fact it is failure to adhere to religion that is the cause of so much misery

the quest for a Crown's empire killed the Indians - the ambition for personal power and wealth killed the Indians - not truth and righteousness

if someone says 'I have to kill you in the name of Christianity' or 'I have to kill you in the name of Freedom' - then they use these labels as scapegoats and an excuse for their own perversions

throw them a Bible or a Bill of Rights and say 'does it not state it is wrong to kill me'

Beren
9th July 2010, 17:53
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?

greybeard
9th July 2010, 18:10
Mind loves to contemplate and complicate.

We are not mind.

In simplicity enlightenment (freedom from ignorance) is our natural state. Remove ego and true self stands out illuminated.
Once all thats is not God is remove from self the oneness which is God is revealed -- God realization.

The sages who experience and live in this sate have existed since time began,
Not one sage is of any religion.
How could God manifest as a sage be of any religion?

Nothing to do with New age, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, or anything other than the realization of SELF.

What is there to talk about?????

Discussion on this subject is irrelevant.
Truth is not my truth.
Truth is not debatable
Truth is not negotiable
Truth is not subject to opinion.
Truth is God Eternal unchanging Pure LOVE.

Everything else is story telling.

Love Chris.

I -- Me didnt write this.
I channeled internally from my Higherself.

Ps Dan minded me of this post which I have pasted in.
Chris

truthseekerdan
9th July 2010, 18:11
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?

Great question Beren. :)

Jesus 'may have said' that to Peter to make him understand that his mission was not what other people who believed in him as the 'Messiah' were thinking that he came to conquer and/or to free them from romans and to become their earthly king.

His mission was to spread Love, knowledge and compassion, and to teach them the true lost Spiritual Way. See my other post. Hope this helps. ;)

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 18:12
Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

Jesus had a mission to fulfill the Prophets and to complete the Cross - a mystery we cannot fully fathom

He could probably climb down from the Cross at any time - imagine the shame of the Spirit

crucified like a common criminal to all the onlookers

Beren
9th July 2010, 18:25
Jesus had a mission to fulfill the Prophets and to complete the Cross - a mystery we cannot fully fathom

He could probably climb down from the Cross at any time - imagine the shame of the Spirit

crucified like a common criminal to all the onlookers


Painfully true.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Great question Beren. :)

Jesus 'may have said' that to Peter to make him understand that his mission was not what other people who believed in him as the 'Messiah' were thinking that he came to conquer and/or to free them from romans and to become their earthly king.

His mission was to spread Love, knowledge and compassion, and to teach them the true lost Spiritual Way. See my other post. Hope this helps. ;)


It reminds me of story of waters below and waters above. Waters represent thoughts.
God's thoughts are so above ours that we can not fathom it.
Not yet.

Soon all who are found worthy before Creator will be instantly joined in spirit with him and our heavenly brothers.

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 18:30
God = Unconditional Love. Everything else is just details.

To conclude here, is that the thirst for Knowledge of 'truth' and Love will set one free.


you got it almost right at the top - you left out Truth

at the conclusion you got it - Congratulation


now never leave out Truth any more but include it with Love

Remember it takes 2 wings to fly high

greybeard
9th July 2010, 18:32
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?

Hi Beren good question.
When you know that you are not the body what is death?
Jesus came to do a job.
His last words as far as I know were "God forgive them for they know not what they do"
His last words were aligned with the first two commandments.
If we follow those two all the rest automatically fall into place.
So Jesus saw the big picture, he led by example.
In spit of everything he forgave.
God does not interfere. Jesus of his own will endured crucification to show that it is possible to forgive in the most horrendous circumstances.
He had to show that we can do the same. We cant call on angels as he can. It had to be a level playing field-- same deal we have.
Even though it is my belief that we automatically on death go to a realm concordant with our spiritual vibration.
We are shown life's events and where we failed to honor others and God immediately after death, at this time we can ask Jesus Christ to intercede such is the love and fairness of God.
Chris

Beren
9th July 2010, 18:33
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?


Also beside other things ,was he not provoked by entities of darkness to react unappropriately ?
He could see through veil that we can not and who knows whom wished so badly that Jesus do a wrong thing then. Then evil would have lasting excuse before Creator of that error.
Just think of a way to exploit the possible err by Christ at that very moment.

That is the thing I wish to point in this thread - INVISIBLE but very real influences over our minds hearts and souls... How to recognize them and not to err.

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 18:35
We cant call on angels as he can.

sure we can Chris

maybe not legions - but our own forsaken guardian Angel




God does not interfere

sure He does Chris

He interferes at His own discretion

Beren
9th July 2010, 18:39
Hi Beren good question.
When you know that you are not the body what is death?
Jesus came to do a job.
His last words as far as I know were "God forgive them for they know not what they do"
His last words were aligned with the first two commandments.
If we follow those two all the rest automatically fall into place.
So Jesus saw the big picture, he led by example.
In spit of everything he forgave.
God does not interfere. Jesus of his own will endured crucification to show that it is possible to forgive in the most horrendous circumstances.
He had to show that we can do the same. We cant call on angels as he can. It had to be a level playing field-- same deal we have.
Even though it is my belief that we automatically on death go to a realm concordant with our spiritual vibration.
We are shown life's events and where we failed to honor others and God immediately after death, at this time we can ask Jesus Christ to intercede such is the love and fairness of God.
Chris


Chris ,
do you see now how precious we are in the eye of Creator?
Can you fathom our importance before Lord of all?

And can you realize why a war is waged against us ?
A terrible bloody war since a dawn of time against ones whom will inherit the kingdom!
We must never forget that as we travel on our road toward God. Ultimately Love is all there is. Creator's impulse was love when he created us. Now we learn about all ,about principles of our being ,about us -because we are his Children.

greybeard
9th July 2010, 18:45
sure we can Chris

maybe not legions - but our own forsaken guardian Angel


Yes we agree RedeZra but in the context of the reply we cant call on legions as Jesus can.
Mine is over worked. He/ she had to learn to swim to be of service to me. Lol
C

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Chris ,
do you see now how precious we are in the eye of Creator?
Can you fathom our importance before Lord of all?

And can you realize why a war is waged against us ?
A terrible bloody war since a dawn of time against ones whom will inherit the kingdom!
We must never forget that as we travel on our road toward God. Ultimately Love is all there is. Creator's impulse was love when he created us. Now we learn about all ,about principles of our being ,about us -because we are his Children.

Oh yes Beren rest assured I know.
C

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 18:51
Mine is over worked. He/ she had to learn to swim to be of service to me. Lol


nah I don't think you give your Angel too much trouble lol

Celine
9th July 2010, 18:52
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?

Timing is everything..

RedeZra
9th July 2010, 19:15
Timing is everything..

tnx for throwing the cliches around as if they were perfumed petals for us to whiff lol


smile Celine :p Im just joking

RedeZra
10th July 2010, 02:22
He could see through veil that we can not and who knows whom wished so badly that Jesus do a wrong thing then. Then evil would have lasting excuse before Creator of that error.
Just think of a way to exploit the possible err by Christ at that very moment.


this is a good point Beren

we are not free if we give in to temptations - but slaves of the senses


Jesus talked the talk walked the walk and points to the path

we are free if we talk the truth and walk the way of love and light - like masters of mind

Beren
10th July 2010, 09:48
this is a good point Beren

we are not free if we give in to temptations - but slaves of the senses


Jesus talked the talk walked the walk and points to the path

we are free if we talk the truth and walk the way of love and light - like masters of mind


Good reasoning RedeZra.
It's about mastering your being to a level of Christ.

kriya
10th July 2010, 10:18
A question;

Why ,in your opinion, Jesus stated to Peter in the moment before arrest- do you not think that I could ask for 12 legions of angels from my Father to aid me now?

But nevertheless he did not ask for it...

Why?

In order to demonstrate the power of love and God's nature of love and forgiveness.

Love,

Kriya

truthseekerdan
10th July 2010, 20:19
you got it almost right at the top - you left out Truth

at the conclusion you got it - Congratulation


now never leave out Truth any more but include it with Love

Remember it takes 2 wings to fly high

Realize that the intellect can never know Truth. Truth can only come from within. It is vast, infinite, beyond words.
How can you describe Love using words? You can describe the feelings associated with Love, but you can't verbalize Love itself. Unfortunately many can not understand that Love is everything.

Remember it takes Love to change everything...:)

RedeZra
10th July 2010, 20:55
Realize that the intellect can never know Truth. Truth can only come from within. It is vast, infinite, beyond words.
How can you describe Love using words? You can describe the feelings associated with Love, but you can't verbalize Love itself. Unfortunately many can not understand that Love is everything.

Remember it takes Love to change everything...:)

Realize that the emotions can never feel Love
Love can only come from within - It is vast infinite beyond feelings

How can you describe Truth using feelings ?
You can describe the thoughts associated with Truth but you can't emotionalize Truth itself Unfortunately many can not understand that Love and Truth goes hand in hand in everything

Remember it takes Love and Truth to change everything...:)


that's right Dan - Love and Truth

PathWalker
10th July 2010, 23:21
How can you describe Love using words? You can describe the feelings associated with Love, but you can't verbalize Love itself.
Unfortunately many can not understand that Love is everything.

Remember it takes Love to change everything...:)

Let me try defining love with words.
1. Love is an emotion.
2. Love is a drive to be united with the love subject. Enjoyment with the presence or closeness of the subject.
3. The subject of love can be: animate being, substance, spirit being, condition.
4. Love differ from affection, with the drive for unification.

I agree that love is the power of creation. I would add that any strong emotion has the creative power.
It is also studied that most powerful (and opposing) emotions are love and fear.
We utilize the fear emotion to contract and solidify polarized/dualistic creation.

As long as we are in physical body we are bounded to duality (fear/love). So better make the best out of it. And feed the wolf of love. The wolf of fear will always be there.

Beren
10th July 2010, 23:30
Let me try defining love with words.
1. Love is an emotion.
2. Love is a drive to be united with the love subject. Enjoyment with the presence or closeness of the subject.
3. The subject of love can be: animate being, substance, spirit being, condition.
4. Love differ from affection, with the drive for unification.

I agree that love is the power of create. I would add that any strong emotion has the creative power.
It is also studied that most powerful (and opposing) emotions are love and fear.
We utilize the fear emotion to contract and solidify polarized/dualistic creation.

As long as we are in physical body we are bounded to duality (fear/love). So better make the best out of it. And feed the wolf of love. The wolf of fear will always be there.


Just think of this; we `re placed on this beautiful planet to learn . We weren`t placed on some rock in space, we are on amazing place.
That tells you that one who wish us to learn about love and truth is wishing us well.

Now learning about Love is a prime factor in life. Everything is doomed if it`s not colored & infused with Love. We will begin to understand God on the very moment we learn about divine language of Love. It`s a process and a tough one. But worthy of effort.
Tomorrow when you realize that you will be able to create a planet or to create another life... it will be amazing!
But first things first!
"Love thy neighbor as yourself"

truthseekerdan
10th July 2010, 23:41
Let me try defining love with words.
1. Love is an emotion.
2. Love is a drive to be united with the love subject. Enjoyment with the presence or closeness of the subject.
3. The subject of love can be: animate being, substance, spirit being, condition.
4. Love differ from affection, with the drive for unification.

I agree that love is the power of creation. I would add that any strong emotion has the creative power.
It is also studied that most powerful (and opposing) emotions are love and fear.
We utilize the fear emotion to contract and solidify polarized/dualistic creation.

As long as we are in physical body we are bounded to duality (fear/love). So better make the best out of it. And feed the wolf of love. The wolf of fear will always be there.

Good try, PathWalker. :thumb: Now try defining God the Creator :)

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa77/nanasadd/Love%20and%20Light/wolves-331.jpg

PathWalker
10th July 2010, 23:50
That tells you that one who wish us to learn about love and truth is wishing us well.


In order to learn the value of love, one need to feel the opposite. That is way we are in duality. We learn mostly by pain and struggle.
One fails to appreciate health until being ill, Safety until being robbed, plenty until being poor...
Hope you get the idea. We are here to experience it all. All aspects of creation. The full spectrum of emotions and physical experiences.
God/Creator/Cosmos/Nature... has no preference of good or bad.
The predator is not preferred/better to the pray.
It is a role game (like D&D, second life).

The game rules are spiritual rules. Mainly karma, compassion and forgiveness (which are actually one).
We are here to serve and play well (not necessarily be nice to each other), each one of us has a sacred role in the game. We participate in the role coordination meetings when we are asleep. We express our free will in the role coordination meetings and the instant response we have to life events.

Play well and remember to feed the love wolf, the fear/hate wold will take care for himself.

Beren
10th July 2010, 23:55
Well, at least interesting line of thinking Pathwalker :-)
An error becomes an error in you constantly repeat it, if you like it and impose it on others as a good thing. Meanwhile if you learn from it then it`s an experience.

Steven
11th July 2010, 00:45
...Love is an emotion...

Love is an emotion or it is what causes the emotion when it passes?

Namaste, Steven

RedeZra
11th July 2010, 03:22
Love is an emotion or it is what causes the emotion when it passes?

Namaste, Steven


love and hate are emotions - truth and false are thoughts


love like falling in love is a feeling an emotion as passion

love is affection and also attachments - love is a lot of things


truth as a flash of insight is a remembrance a thought as intuition

truth is principle and also presuppositions - truth is a lot of things


capital Love and capital Truth are attributes of the Infinite consciousness


love and truth are feelings and perceptions - as through a glass darkly - into the Infinite consciousness




Namaste

truthseekerdan
11th July 2010, 03:58
Realize that the emotions can never feel Love
Love can only come from within - It is vast infinite beyond feelings

How can you describe Truth using feelings ?
You can describe the thoughts associated with Truth but you can't emotionalize Truth itself Unfortunately many can not understand that Love and Truth goes hand in hand in everything

Remember it takes Love and Truth to change everything...:)


that's right Dan - Love and Truth

My dear RedEzra, you like to play devil's advocate, I see. ;)
Truth is a way not a destination, like harmony, peace, kindness, faith, etc. which are parts of it.
Unconditional Love on the other hand is a destination because it is what defines God, and we are parts of IT.
Conclusion... Love contains IT all. :) Namaste ~ :love: ~

Dan

RedeZra
11th July 2010, 04:26
My dear RedEzra, you like to play devil's advocate, I see. ;)
Truth is a way not a destination, like harmony, peace, kindness, faith, etc. which are parts of it.
Unconditional Love on the other hand is a destination because it is what defines God, and we are parts of IT.
Conclusion... Love contains IT all. :) Namaste ~ :love: ~

Dan



dear Dan


the devil does not want us to know Truth - for then we would be free from his lies


God is more than Love - He is Truth too and Light



love without truth is blind

truth without love is lame



now go and sin no more lol


---

- almost forgot Namaste -

truthseekerdan
11th July 2010, 04:42
the devil does not want us to know Truth - for then we would be free from his lies


What is truth for you, might not be necessarily for me RedeZra...;)
Truth is respecting other people too. For you might be irrelevant, as for me is truth.
Here is a short definition of who the devil really is, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=22990&viewfull=1#post22990) my friend. Peace and eternal Love to you. :)

RedeZra
11th July 2010, 05:02
What is truth for you, might not be necessarily for me RedeZra...;)
Truth is respecting other people too. For you might be irrelevant, as for me is truth.
Here is a short definition of who the devil really is, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=22990&viewfull=1#post22990) my friend. Peace and eternal Love to you. :)



the devil is in the details Dan


you are quite right in that truth for me is not necessarily truth for you

but then again I'm not telling you how to live your life either


truths are thoughts like loves are emotions


Truth and Love are attributes of God

which we at best can imitate as best we can til we become it and be it



- love and light Bro -

:peace:


---

I respect everyone til they prove unworthy of it - then I respect God in them

PathWalker
11th July 2010, 07:35
I am with RedeZra this time.

Truth and love are attributes of god. As well as evil and lies.

Einstein said that
there is only one absolute truth, which is there in no absolute truth.

Personally I believe that there is single absolute truth, that there is a single creator/conscious/god/cosmos/nature/force that includes us and we include it.

The rest is philosophical/religious interpretations.
If you look at galactic events are they bad or evil. Then what about biological event is glass of water, are they good or evil.
Hope you get the point.

When one broaden its perspective there is more room to compassion and forgiveness, which in turn generate love.
But first thing is the intention. All start with intention, every bit of creation. As in the Jewish bible all started with god's word.

RedeZra
11th July 2010, 08:29
Truth and love are attributes of god. As well as evil and lies.



ahem evil and lies are not attributes of God but mistakes of nonexistent minds

believing this diversity which the Infinite consciousness conjures up as a pastime

while concealing Itself in an apparent play of hide and seek




---

so Great is God

kriya
11th July 2010, 10:53
hehehe.......you guys crack me up!


Love is a cosmic force

Steven
11th July 2010, 11:09
The emotion felt when Love circulates between two is not Love. It is what Love causes. Love is much more than emotion. It is like a game, the game creates joy, but the game is not joy...

Namaste, Steven

greybeard
11th July 2010, 11:40
There is a difference between talking about and being it.
Ultimate Love, God has no attributes. It does not need a recipient. It just is.
A beautiful sunset can inspire the poet uplift many, it does not mean to.
One can write a phd about the flavour of an orange but if you havent tasted one its meaningless.
Even the wisest of my disciples can enter heaven by faith alone.
We are just having fun passing time on this thread.
Love is inherent within each of us, another may be the catalyst but when it rises up within us, we know it is special, we know what it is, then we make the very human mistake of thinking the other is responsible for the feeling and if they go we have lost love, so then the other becomes an attachment. Been there done it.
So all Love is God. That love that arises in us is God. It really has no cause no agenda till mind looks for a reason for it being there. Thats when the trouble begins.
Compassion is a high expression of love as it looks for no return, bur even then the human mind/ego will swell up with, dident I do good. no it just happened as a pure act of love.
People risk their lives very often spontaneously, if they thought about themselves they would not take the risk. Trained life savers, like firemen, are brave they do it consciously the are aware of the risk, they take a risk that they have accessed. They overcome fear to do it.
The act of compassion by love is not aware of self--it is a self less act, fear and love do not co exist.
Hope this helps the discussion.
Great thread thanks Beren and all other contributors.
Chris

truthseekerdan
11th July 2010, 12:40
Woke up with this verse in mind, and no I'm not religious...:)
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:13) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:13&version=NIV)

Beren
11th July 2010, 12:54
The emotion felt when Love circulates between two is not Love. It is what Love causes. Love is much more than emotion. It is like a game, the game creates joy, but the game is not joy...

Namaste, Steven


It`s kinda funny :-) , we are of God but yet we do not fully comprehend what and whom is our Father. But we take it little by little.
Right now I feel pity for all those souls that chose darkness as their state of being. They simply chose jail cell...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Woke up with this verse in mind, and no I'm not religious...:)
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:13) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:13&version=NIV)


Dan , you inspired me to paste here whole chapter since it`s just beautiful :-)


1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Beren
11th July 2010, 13:04
Hmmm -it`s funny but now I realized one more detail here; the night I started this thread I was not thinking high and wide about what to write ... it just came to me... Now I see that even the name spiritual encounters makes you think different now. Evil spirits wish you that you never raise your head and ask -why-? They want you down in the sand without questions- a slave. On the other hand good spirits of our Father wishes our well being and wishes us to grow in love ,truth,wisdom and all virtues of Creator.

Give or take we all have spiritual encounters realize it or not. Since we can not avoid them ,since in essence we are of spirit , use this encounters for good.
There are languages to learn which are not of physical form, let us learn the ways of Father. Cast down ways of brothers that chose darkness.

Anchor
11th July 2010, 23:24
Let me try defining love with words.

Talk about mission impossible :) It's like trying to count infinity. You may have more success pushing water up a hill with a garden rake!

I agree with much that you have said in your post, but there are some subtle differences that might be worth talking about.


1. Love is an emotion.

Disagree, however they are associated. See (2)


2. Love is a drive to be united with the love subject. Enjoyment with the presence or closeness of the subject.

Agree, love is a force. (inspiration note: emotion => love in motion ). The law of attraction (like attracts/resonates with like) also is recognised in this.


3. The subject of love can be: animate being, substance, spirit being, condition.

I am not so sure love has a subject. The way I see it, love permeates the manifest universe = hence the Divine in all things (which one strives to see!)


4. Love differ from affection, with the drive for unification.

Agree


I agree that love is the power of creation. I would add that any strong emotion has the creative power.

I may agree with this but in a different way. Manifestation requires the intent of a creator being. Strong emotion can be associated with an intent - sometimes by accident, which can cause problems!


It is also studied that most powerful (and opposing) emotions are love and fear.
We utilize the fear emotion to contract and solidify polarized/dualistic creation.

We don't utilize fear - TPTB do. Fear should be removed from your conciousness as soon as you become aware of it.

John..

truthseekerdan
12th July 2010, 03:52
Let me try defining love with words.
1. Love is an emotion.


"Love is misunderstood to be an emotion; actually, it is a state of awareness, a way of being in the world, a way of seeing oneself and others." (David R. Hawkins) (http://www.veritaspub.com/)

RedeZra
12th July 2010, 04:33
Ultimate Love, God has no attributes. It does not need a recipient. It just is.

surly God is something - besides you already identify Him with Love - so that is something see hehe

me I will not confine God and tell Him what He is and is not - but I do it all the time too lol

greybeard
12th July 2010, 06:39
surly God is something - besides you already identify Him with Love - so that is something see hehe

me I will not confine God and tell Him what He is and is not - but I do it all the time too lol

Simple truth is we dont know when we are in the non enlightened state, we are ignorant of the magnificence and majesty of God.
The enlightened ones know.
So agree we cant put God in our personal box That which God is, is beyond human definition.

Chris

RedeZra
12th July 2010, 08:44
Simple truth is we dont know when we are in the non enlightened state, we are ignorant of the magnificence and majesty of God.



that is a truth honest heart

Celine
12th July 2010, 14:27
Love..

A four letter word

A trigger, sending waves flowing through you.

Love..

An intent, a cause for reaction

A motivator that drives desires and passions in Human beings.

Love..

A state of being, energizing our souls

A being, searching the cosmos for home.

Love,

You, me, us, them

Here, Now, forever


Home...

love,
celine

greybeard
12th July 2010, 15:06
may be so
C

Beren
12th July 2010, 15:58
Why some spirits chose to hate? Is it so hard to express love towards your brother?

lightseeker
12th July 2010, 15:59
I have been reading what some have said regarding a very strong feeling of something big is about to happen, but being unable to articulate just what that something might be. I would like to share a possible related experience that way very profound for me. Most of my life I have practiced meditation, but with working full time raising kids and a very busy life, often made it difficult to find the time to meditate on a daily basis. I have now been retired for over two years. My kids are grown up and living on their own. I have been able to give more time to my spiritual developement, and meditation figures very much in my life as a daily routine. Recently I have noticed a MAJOR change in the energy around me everywhere. This was one of those WOW moments. I could pinpoint the exact time and date that this happened, the energy field was very strong and came with a clear message which I heard loud and clear inside me. NOW IS THE TIME FOR DOING. There was a clear sense that everything that I had been doing from the time I was a child was preparing me for something that is imminent, that the time for learning and preparation is over, it is now time to take action. What confuses me about this is what action is required! I dont have a clue, although my instincts tell me to be patient and wait. I do not know if this makes any sense to anyone else, or if any of you have had a similar experience. I am still waiting patiently as to where to go from here.

truthseekerdan
12th July 2010, 16:19
Why some spirits chose to hate? Is it so hard to express love towards your brother?

Without the opposite of Love which is hate a product of Fear, we wouldn't know (understand) the extent of Love.
That's why we're here to experience and learn all this to grow, and evolve spiritually. :love: ~ Dan

greybeard
12th July 2010, 17:27
May be slightly off topic but its helpful
chris

Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.


--- Max Ehrmann, 1927

kriya
12th July 2010, 17:32
I have been reading what some have said regarding a very strong feeling of something big is about to happen, but being unable to articulate just what that something might be. I would like to share a possible related experience that way very profound for me. Most of my life I have practiced meditation, but with working full time raising kids and a very busy life, often made it difficult to find the time to meditate on a daily basis. I have now been retired for over two years. My kids are grown up and living on their own. I have been able to give more time to my spiritual developement, and meditation figures very much in my life as a daily routine. Recently I have noticed a MAJOR change in the energy around me everywhere. This was one of those WOW moments. I could pinpoint the exact time and date that this happened, the energy field was very strong and came with a clear message which I heard loud and clear inside me. NOW IS THE TIME FOR DOING. There was a clear sense that everything that I had been doing from the time I was a child was preparing me for something that is imminent, that the time for learning and preparation is over, it is now time to take action. What confuses me about this is what action is required! I dont have a clue, although my instincts tell me to be patient and wait. I do not know if this makes any sense to anyone else, or if any of you have had a similar experience. I am still waiting patiently as to where to go from here.

Lovely post lightseeker! Welcome.

I envy the time you have and wish it for myself.

Just keep meditating!

Love,

Kriya

Spiral of Light
12th July 2010, 18:03
'There was a clear sense that everything that I had been doing from the time I was a child was preparing me for something that is imminent, that the time for learning and preparation is over, it is now time to take action. What confuses me about this is what action is required! I dont have a clue, although my instincts tell me to be patient and wait. I do not know if this makes any sense to anyone else, or if any of you have had a similar experience. I am still waiting patiently as to where to go from here.'

I have walked a similar path to yours, Lightseeker. Now that the family is out of the nest and I have some time to devote to my spiritual journey, several synchronistic events have helped me to become more and more aware of strengths and energy that I have to share... or to use in some important way. The way is not totally clear to me yet.

The light of understanding seems to get brighter as I continue to meditate and focus on those things that will help to move me along my pathway. So, yes, I am, like you, waiting for whatever happens next on this remarkable journey. Much love and light to you as you continue on yours.

Namaste,
Nancy

Beren
12th July 2010, 20:24
[B]
Therefore, be at peace with God


This is crucial.

Anchor
12th July 2010, 23:11
Love..

A four letter word

A trigger, sending waves flowing through you.

Love..

An intent, a cause for reaction

A motivator that drives desires and passions in Human beings.

Love..

A state of being, energizing our souls

A being, searching the cosmos for home.

Love,

You, me, us, them

Here, Now, forever


Home...

love,
celine

That is a beautiful synthesis of what has been said in this thread about love.

Thankyou.

John..

RedeZra
13th July 2010, 01:37
Recently I have noticed a MAJOR change in the energy around me everywhere. This was one of those WOW moments. I could pinpoint the exact time and date that this happened, the energy field was very strong and came with a clear message which I heard loud and clear inside me. NOW IS THE TIME FOR DOING. There was a clear sense that everything that I had been doing from the time I was a child was preparing me for something that is imminent, that the time for learning and preparation is over, it is now time to take action. What confuses me about this is what action is required!

you know best yourself

perhaps it is time for a slight shift of focus - from meditation til righteous action

put the hands to good work - for the heart is connected - and the head knows the difference

hands that help are sweeter than lips that pray

RedeZra
13th July 2010, 02:30
Why some spirits chose to hate? Is it so hard to express love towards your brother?

sense of separateness - it's either me or you - my way or the highway - me myself and I

greybeard
13th July 2010, 03:53
sense of separateness - it's either me or you - my way or the highway - me myself and I

Its back to transcending ego my friend.
The most important relationship we can have is the one with That which created us.
Things in this material world come and go, store up treasure in Heaven.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within.
Love your Self.
The one constant is God, which is life itself.
Endeavor to put "Credit in the spiritual bank"
( See I remembered your advice Uffe, my silent but always with me friend)
You never know when you might need to make a withdrawal.
The credit comes from selfless service, dedicating the fruit of ones action to God. (no karma then)
Love all serve all.
Sometimes discernment means tough love needs to be applied.
There is a difference between loving unconditionally and giving unconditionally.
Different circumstances, different context, require different action, which will be right action.
There are time when "no" is the correct response.
Whenever you see the necessity to say no, say it like you mean it.
That includes saying no to one self. Smiling broadly.
reaching for the Golden Virginia.
Well I am human lol
c

RedeZra
13th July 2010, 04:26
Its back to transcending ego my friend.
The most important relationship we can have is the one with That which created us.


morning early birdie


it's hard to believe that all are connected - we don't learn that at school

so we go through life feeling alone and separate


til one somehow finds this truth in themselves - that all are connected

and that every lost soul is held high in the Heart of God

Beren
13th July 2010, 09:19
morning early birdie


it's hard to believe that all are connected - we don't learn that at school

so we go through life feeling alone and separate


til one somehow finds this truth in themselves - that all are connected

and that every lost soul is held high in the Heart of God


All are connected and we all feel that deeply subconsciously. Evil spirits are often insinuating "take this" grab that" do this do that..... But they never offer anything real. All their offerings lead to dust. On the other hand God wishes us to learn ,grow and be as him.

I think good choice is pretty obvious ...

greybeard
13th July 2010, 20:13
Its possible to come into this world, and while still needing God, being aware somehow of that Love with out naming it anything, there is no need of the bible, commandments, or any rules.
Acts of cruelty is alien to one and there is little chance of bonding with a peer group from the onset because their actions are completely foreign to one.
Compassion wells up inside to such things, as a tree being cut down.
It is known that everything is alive and has consciousness.
Unfortunately there can be a period, where in an effort to fit into society, born of loneliness, there is an attempt to fit into others standards.
Ergo when consciousness rises to a certain point one comes back to where one was as an innocent child.
Jesus said be as little children.
What I am trying to say is that when we evolve enough in consciousness there is no need of rules, as anything other that right action is unthinkable.
The love of God just guides us.
I believe we are heading for that now.
Enlightenment and Christ consciousness is much the same state of being.
Raising of consciousness is crucial now
Chris

Beren
13th July 2010, 20:30
Its possible to come into this world, and while still needing God, being aware somehow of that Love with out naming it anything, there is no need of the bible, commandments, or any rules.
Acts of cruelty is alien to one and there is little chance of bonding with a peer group from the onset because their actions are completely foreign to one.
Compassion wells up inside to such things, as a tree being cut down.
It is known that everything is alive and has consciousness.
Unfortunately there can be a period, where in an effort to fit into society, born of loneliness, there is an attempt to fit into others standards.
Ergo when consciousness rises to a certain point one comes back to where one was as an innocent child.
Jesus said be as little children.
What I am trying to say is that when we evolve enough in consciousness there is no need of rules, as anything other that right action is unthinkable.
The love of God just guides us.
I believe we are heading for that now.
Enlightenment and Christ consciousness is much the same state of being.
Raising of consciousness is crucial now
Chris

Christ said that all points up to these two things; Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
Everything clings to these two.

kriya
13th July 2010, 20:35
Christ said that all points up to these two things; Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
Everything clings to these two.

Absolutely! These two commandments are the most important, imo.

Love,

Kriya

Beren
13th July 2010, 20:42
Absolutely! These two commandments are the most important, imo.

Love,

Kriya


Yes! :-)

This is the heart of the matter.
You can not live and prosper in any dimension and in anything in any reality without these two.

greybeard
13th July 2010, 21:48
Yes! :-)

This is the heart of the matter.
You can not live and prosper in any dimension and in anything in any reality without these two.

Playing the devils advocate
If you need these two comandments you wont live in love ant respect of God and all others.
The commandments are only necessary because we need them here in this lunatic asylum at present.
It only a madhouse because of fallen consciouses,
When we in humility and love have enough humility to surrender fully to God that we will have heaven on earth.
c
PS God having no needs wants or desires and just pure love would have no need to command us to do anything.
The people of Moses day perhaps needed to be told that these were commandments with a fear element inherent in them. ie do as I say or go to hell.
More modern language would be, these are suggestions from loving Father, that are for your own good and yes there are consequences that are non to healthy if you dont follow them.
All that being said.
The first two commandments and as affirmed by Jesus are all important for our spiritual evolution and the creation of Heaven on earth.

chris

Beren
14th July 2010, 11:35
Playing the devils advocate
If you need these two comandments you wont live in love ant respect of God and all others.
The commandments are only necessary because we need them here in this lunatic asylum at present.
It only a madhouse because of fallen consciouses,
When we in humility and love have enough humility to surrender fully to God that we will have heaven on earth.
c
PS God having no needs wants or desires and just pure love would have no need to command us to do anything.
The people of Moses day perhaps needed to be told that these were commandments with a fear element inherent in them. ie do as I say or go to hell.
More modern language would be, these are suggestions from loving Father, that are for your own good and yes there are consequences that are non to healthy if you dont follow them.
All that being said.
The first two commandments and as affirmed by Jesus are all important for our spiritual evolution and the creation of Heaven on earth.

chris


You do not need to play devil's advocate Chris :-)...

Core of the message stays the same though fabric changes through time.
Many of the things written in Bible were highly unexplainable to people in past times and no matter how we are thinking today ,still a lot of things are not explainable to us today.

For example how would you (if you know how to) explain to modern scientists how you made bread and fish out of thin air ???
Or wine from water?
Or healing the sick ?
Or raising dead??

How would you explain that when they do not understand a bit of what you are doing?

That's why we were said that we should have faith now and tomorrow we will know all.
It's a matter of trust to God.

Beren
14th July 2010, 12:32
That's why we were said that we should have faith now and tomorrow we will know all.
It's a matter of trust to God.

And that faith and trust is exactly being exploited by all. By religions ,by governments, by schools, by everyone. Sometimes I am amazed of the size of the agreed conspiracy against humanity...
One terribly big maze of evil against sons and daughters of God...

~Winged Gnostic~
14th July 2010, 14:44
Dealing with this type of things is difficult. Mere try to explain all surrounding fact is almost impossible task for many. However that does not change the fact that a war rages on. A war that is very often unseen . It`s a war for souls.
Tons of evidence of entities whom reside in another reality or dimension than ours are forcing us to at least think of what is going on in our lives.
Thoughts, actions and other things are effected by spiritual world more than we are aware of.
Heard of a phrase that fish stinks from its head?
Well that could explain the things here. Spirits are controlling majority of people without same people being aware of it.
Free will is a rule but affecting is not ,hence thoughts are being infused into minds ,patterns of thinking, even vivid pictures or whole conversations- all in order to provoke reaction of people.
Then when people react ,they mostly do it blindly erring or doing things which they regret afterwards.

Whenever you do good thing, or a good deed, it does not comes unnoticed by all sides. Dark ones then seek to diminish your effort ,to down it. Then they turn to yourself in a form or energy attack or simply by bombarding your mind with negative thoughts, provoking you to do evil.

As we are physical we can`t deal with them on physical level. But first step in overcoming the enemy is knowledge.
Knowledge of what is happening and whom is affecting your life in bad way.
You may think it is this or that but major affecter are spiritual entities.

That is why this is a war for souls. They wish that humans be enslaved or dead. Why?
Because human kind are meant to inherit eternal blessings from Creator.
Bible spoke of that.
Now forget all that you assume about Bible. Forget all and approach from other angle.
Story written there is bigger than we ever thought of.
One of the reasons why that story is blurred or diminished was and is dark ones`s wishes that we as humans never ever raise our head and have knowledge. Hence the history of lies ,murders and all evil to keep the truth out of humanity`s hands.

But never forget that little thingy ... free will. By free will that is granted to me I choose to know and to be. I choose to live and to love. I choose to have nothing with darkness. I choose to live my life like some people never will, I choose to find kindness ,beauty and truth.

I hope that you too - who ever you are that reads this lines - will choose wisely.
Circles that we start always are rounding to our face, some may feel as blessing and other as curse. May you choose knowledge filled with love,tossed with wisdom and justice - first step towards Creator as our everlasting Father.


Beren, You spoke straight from my heart... I am new to the forum so plz forgive me for only reading the first two pages of this thread.

What can be difficult for people to understand is that we are all one in consciousness with individual free will, and this consciousness can be influenced negatively by the wrong entities. Realizing that we have free will and exercising it can set us free from the bondage's that keep us down (physically, emotionally, and spiritually).

~Winged Gnostic~
14th July 2010, 15:05
And that faith and trust is exactly being exploited by all. By religions ,by governments, by schools, by everyone. Sometimes I am amazed of the size of the agreed conspiracy against humanity...
One terribly big maze of evil against sons and daughters of God...

This cycles back to rediscovering free will. Letting go of the 'control' systems we have been conditioned to accept and becoming one with God. I have many 'Christian' friends who still don't understand how their churches indoctrinate them to feel unworthy unless they conform to the churches will. These same people fear that if they grasp the free will concept and move forward spiritually they will be condemned by their church. They don't realize that the same church they are devoted to reinforces the control which keeps them further away from God spiritually.

Beren - your words are so wise and you state them eloquently!

greybeard
14th July 2010, 16:36
While the essential message of Jesus is at the core of Christian teaching, I cant believe a God who is unconditional love would judge us and send us to hell.
I believe that in that respect we are master of our own fate. What we sow wee reap is true.
The Lords prayer is prayer enough.
That and Beloved God how may I serve You?
We raise our consciousness by devotion to our loving Creator, by aligning our will to His will, then all is well.
Simple but not easy, there are many temptations and distractions.

One sage said "The love of God is unconditionally available to all, but God loves those the most who love Him.

Ch

Beren
14th July 2010, 20:35
While the essential message of Jesus is at the core of Christian teaching, I cant believe a God who is unconditional love would judge us and send us to hell.
I believe that in that respect we are master of our own fate. What we sow wee reap is true.
The Lords prayer is prayer enough.
That and Beloved God how may I serve You?
We raise our consciousness by devotion to our loving Creator, by aligning our will to His will, then all is well.
Simple but not easy, there are many temptations and distractions.

One sage said "The love of God is unconditionally available to all, but God loves those the most who love Him.

Ch

You know what is funny ye olde pirate? ;)
Right now you can talk with the Creator of the universe!!!
Every soul can, right now!

Will they talk to God?

No.

Why?

I believe your ego thread explained a lot...
It`s a battle inside to overcome many things and simply start genuine conversation with God !

~Winged Gnostic~
14th July 2010, 22:55
While the essential message of Jesus is at the core of Christian teaching, I cant believe a God who is unconditional love would judge us and send us to hell.

From my understanding, what is referred to as hell in the Bible has been translated from the word pit. I also remember learning about 'purgatory' in bible school... My own spiritual understanding is that hell doesn't exist, and that purgatory isn't a specific place either. The only thing I can relate to what purgatory may be is the place we go between reincarnated lives as we progress spiritually. Since purgatory isn't taught as a permanent place then this theory makes sense to me. Church teachings have twisted so much of the truth that it's even very hard for scholars to decipher what the original teachings were.


I believe that in that respect we are master of our own fate. What we sow wee reap is true.

God is love. If you have children then you should realize how important it is to punish children when they need correcting. Punishment is a way of teaching children to be accountable for their actions. So if I need to be punished from time to time because of my own actions then I must understand this as God's love for me to succeed on my journey.


The Lords prayer is prayer enough.
That and Beloved God how may I serve You?

Actually I believe that Jesus taught us that He was here to serve us. What are we asked in return? To honor God's name, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (unconditional love to others), receive our daily bread (don't expect abundance in material things - this means nothing to spiritual growth), forgive others so we may be forgiven (unconditional love again), and give God the credit for the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory of the universe. In essence we serve God by showing others the unconditional love He shows us and give Him credit for it.


We raise our consciousness by devotion to our loving Creator, by aligning our will to His will, then all is well.
Simple but not easy, there are many temptations and distractions.

I honestly believe our consciousness is raised by loving our fellow man as we are instructed to do. This brings us closer to God because we become more like him. His will is for us to show unconditional love for others. It's true this is not easy, we have to let go of selfishness and control of issues as they unfold.



One sage said "The love of God is unconditionally available to all, but God loves those the most who love Him.

I don't believe this quote in the context that it sounds. If you have more than one child then it would be easy to understand that you don't love more over another. You may favor one because he or she shows more respect and honor for your wishes. Then again for the child who rebels and gets into trouble (even outside of your influence) you grieve for their struggles. This is because you know the child who submits to your will (doing what is right) can look forward to an easier path in life. You grieve for the child who is constantly getting into trouble because you know he or she is only causing more grief in his or her life. God doesn't love any one of us less than another. He has given us free will to do what we may, and advises us before hand that we have consequences for our actions.

These comments are my own point of view... I respect your point of view, however I will have to agree to disagree with your comments.

truthseekerdan
15th July 2010, 03:34
~Winged Gnostic~, I really enjoyed your analogy. :) Thank you, and kudos to you! :thumb:

Love, :love:

Dan

greybeard
15th July 2010, 09:48
God is always available and listens but we do have to ask if we need help.
In desperation I did.
"People rarely learn by gentle reminders"
Sai Baba quote.
If you are interested reading what motivated me to love God
Click on the song link at bottom
go to home on the web site then to
Spiritual and life, then to.
Life is as it it is.
There I share what happened from an early age till recently.
Chris
Namaste

greybeard
15th July 2010, 10:06
Hi Winged Gnostic
There is little we disagree upon.
In the main there is agreement.
I enjoyed your take on it.
The God loves quote from a sage is not necessarily my point of view just a may be so.
There is no specialness.
I would disagree re hell as some who have died and come back to life testify that there is hell, its lower astral.
My main source of spiritual information is Dr David Hawkins who also experienced hell as an agnostic and cried out "If there is a God I ask him to help me"
He was saved from the pit the very depth of hell and was enlightened.
Dr H book Power vs Force was an eye opener as were his other books. I have read spiritual book by enlightened sages for years but there were always questions unanswered, he answers most of them for me.
God can be likened to an infinite electro magnetic field, electrons and we are created in his likeness, we are a walking electro magnetic field.
God is intelligent beyond our understanding and radiates pure love and like the sun radiates on all.
The clouds obscure the sun but it is still there. Obstacles(clouds) created by ego (EDGE GOD OUT) have to be removed in order for Self illumination, freedom from ignorance, enlightenment to occur.
Chris
Namaste

greybeard
15th July 2010, 10:45
You know what is funny ye olde pirate? ;)
Right now you can talk with the Creator of the universe!!!
Every soul can, right now!

Will they talk to God?

No.

Why?

I believe your ego thread explained a lot...
It`s a battle inside to overcome many things and simply start genuine conversation with God !

Agreed my friend.
Its more like Ancient Mariner than old pirate, laughing loudly.
chris

Beren
15th July 2010, 14:55
Agreed my friend.
Its more like Ancient Mariner than old pirate, laughing loudly.
chris

:p

Nothing happens without a cause so I think it's nice to see good old friends after few ages...

Beren
15th July 2010, 15:02
That is a beautiful synthesis of what has been said in this thread about love.

Thankyou.

John..

John ,you spoke in one of the comments about bad guys utilizing fear, now what do you think about utilizing love on others?
In all of love's forms...

~Winged Gnostic~
15th July 2010, 16:07
Hi Winged Gnostic
There is little we disagree upon.
In the main there is agreement.
I enjoyed your take on it.
The God loves quote from a sage is not necessarily my point of view just a may be so.
There is no specialness.
I would disagree re hell as some who have died and come back to life testify that there is hell, its lower astral.
My main source of spiritual information is Dr David Hawkins who also experienced hell as an agnostic and cried out "If there is a God I ask him to help me"
He was saved from the pit the very depth of hell and was enlightened.
Dr H book Power vs Force was an eye opener as were his other books. I have read spiritual book by enlightened sages for years but there were always questions unanswered, he answers most of them for me.
God can be likened to an infinite electro magnetic field, electrons and we are created in his likeness, we are a walking electro magnetic field.
God is intelligent beyond our understanding and radiates pure love and like the sun radiates on all.
The clouds obscure the sun but it is still there. Obstacles(clouds) created by ego (EDGE GOD OUT) have to be removed in order for Self illumination, freedom from ignorance, enlightenment to occur.
Chris
Namaste

You have a magnificent life story and I am happy to hear we have little to disagree on. Thank you for sharing your story with me. My life experiences are only similar in the fact that I've faced many challenges, and inspirations, which together have brought me to where I am now.

When I post my thoughts it's a reflection of what I've learned to this point, yet it doesn't reflect what I haven't learned yet from my own spiritual journey. Maybe I will go on that forum and post my own story which is also full of of amazing revelations.

There is nothing any person or collective group of people can say to change my view on hell as an eternal place with no escape. You said yourself that Dr. David Hawkins was brought back from the place he visited and described it as hell. It's quite possible his experience was such to enlighten him from the path he was on. I believe reincarnation is a big part of this lower astral level - which I'm not saying doesn't exist. It's about our soul journey through multiple human life forms so we may learn and grow spiritually.

We also have lessons to learn in the astral plane, teachers who guide us into the physical world so we may make greater spiritual advancements. We may live many lifetimes, however in the end it's about learning to live with this pure love, light, consciousness in both the astral and physical planes. This not only requires that we love others, but that we love ourselves. The more love and light we let into our lives in the physical world, the more love and light that's in the astral plane we enter at our physical death. OK.. so it's much more complicated than this, yet really simple when we think about it.

Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Thank you Dan :happy:

Don't know what I did right, but it sure feels good.

greybeard
15th July 2010, 16:32
Dear Winged Gnostic
I agree with your latest post 100%

Dr Hawkins had religious scrupulosity as a youngster then as a teen he experienced the totality of suffering of the human race since time began, he could not believe in a God who was responsible for that and became an agnostic.
He described hell as having different levels (heaven does too) and the formless one, which he was in is horrendous beyond belief.
It was timeless, so the impression was that it was eternal, abandon hope all who enter so to speak, however Gods mercy is also infinite and those who call out to Him even there are released from that pit.
In the enlightened state he realized that God is not responsible for human suffering, it is the ego.
So I think you are correct that he had to go there in order to have such a magnificent release in to the state called enlightenment and to be able to share his experience with others.
It would be great if you share your experiences on Dan's web site "My spiritual Oasis"
Looking forward to reading them.
The more people who are willing to share their spiritual experiences the more others are given hope and uplifted.
I think we are here to learn to love as Jesus and other spiritual Avatars did.
Chris
Namaste

Beren
15th July 2010, 16:38
[QUOTE=~Winged Gnostic~;35234]You have a magnificent life story and I am happy to hear we have little to disagree on. Thank you for sharing your story with me. My life experiences are only similar in the fact that I've faced many challenges, and inspirations, which together have brought me to where I am now.

When I post my thoughts it's a reflection of what I've learned to this point, yet it doesn't reflect what I haven't learned yet from my own spiritual journey. Maybe I will go on that forum and post my own story which is also full of of amazing revelations.

There is nothing any person or collective group of people can say to change my view on hell as an eternal place with no escape. You said yourself that Dr. David Hawkins was brought back from the place he visited and described it as hell. It's quite possible his experience was such to enlighten him from the path he was on. I believe reincarnation is a big part of this lower astral level - which I'm not saying doesn't exist. It's about our soul journey through multiple human life forms so we may learn and grow spiritually.

We also have lessons to learn in the astral plane, teachers who guide us into the physical world so we may make greater spiritual advancements. We may live many lifetimes, however in the end it's about learning to live with this pure love, light, consciousness in both the astral and physical planes. This not only requires that we love others, but that we love ourselves. The more love and light we let into our lives in the physical world, the more love and light that's in the astral plane we enter at our physical death. OK.. so it's much more complicated than this, yet really simple when we think about it.

Peace

[COLOR="#ff8c00"]
A path that lead one to be as Christ tomorrow is not easy , you have to learn many things that you are not even aware of. Starting point is love and ending point is ... love.
First thing is confidence that trusting your life in the hands of Creator is not a bad thing . It's that first primal fear of if you let go someone will hurt or kill you.

But that someone is non less than our Heavenly Father. Whom you can trust more than him for ever and ever?

But we are bombarded with other visions and fear, so we do not let go. We are afraid of the one who created us. That is unreasonable fear.
Next step is to see through the veil of who is frightening us? Whom doesn't wish our eternal well being?

That force was named "Satan" - meaning adversary. Or "devil" meaning liar.
Also that force would like so much that we think of it as red horned guy with fork or whatever is ever presented during history.

There is a quote from Bible : " ... my people is dying because of lack of knowledge..."

SO learning is the key for starting of spiritual journey .

greybeard
15th July 2010, 17:01
The heavenly realms are Celestial you could say higher astral though.
Enlighten ones when they leave the body go to these higher realms to advance spiritually.
The dont have to come back to Earth but on rare occasions they do, and of course they forget what they are just like the rest of us.
The Buddhists have a name for them Bod ---- some thing I forget
Chris

shiva777
15th July 2010, 19:41
no, everything DEPENDS upon your level of DNA awakening...almost all so-called "enlightened masters and teachers" have fallen in to the trap of surrendering themselves to a "god" or "oneness" that just reflects their level of DNA activation,which is mostly very low going by their teachings,they don't understand the mechanics of conciousness and hence think they have reached some kind of "enlightenment",the "enlightenment" their reliogions or false creator gods wish them to be deceived in to...it's the old "love,light and clueless" program that has sucked them in to these bubbles of "enlightenment" created by these fallen "gods"...on higher dimensions their oversouls and Avatar selves know this...when you activate higher levels of DNA you do not fall in to that trap...again,most of you won't understand that and will fall in to the same traps as those "bliss-bunnies" have where they have merged with "gods" or "sources" that are far from pure expressions of ORIGNAL GOD SOURCE,they are holding tanks where conciousness can be used as food for the energies they have surrendered to..if you are coming from a place of suffering and pain those false "enlightenment" states will look and sound even greater...if you come from a wiser level of activation you will see the traps being laid by almost all "teachers and masters" mostly unknowingly and from a state of love,light and cluelessness
wake up

greybeard
15th July 2010, 20:13
Shiva777 I have respect for you dogged determination.
Has it ever occurred that perhaps just possibly you have been misled?
It seems virtually everybody but you is out of step.
You are maligning teachings that were in place for thousands of years before the Buddha in the most intelligent form of written language ever developed, Sancript.
Have you actually read the Bhagavadgita or books by Nisargadatta or Ramana?
Be sure though, I dont in the least mind you having a different opinion.
All I can say is that my personal experiences in meditation bear out ancient truths before I had even read them.
I dont have to rely on second hand information though I find it very helpful in filling in gaps in my understanding, I remain open minded.
Regards Chris

PathWalker
15th July 2010, 20:24
everything DEPENDS upon your level of DNA awakening...
My belief is that the creation in all dimension responds to soul intention. DNA is very physical dense manifestation of a greater wisdom and knowledge. It was said somewhere that the correct activation of the DNA can connect one to the Akashic records and achieve mastery over the material (research the Broninkov method in http://www.bronnikovmethod.com/). Therefore the awakening practice I follow is about refining the ego intention, striving to connect with the soul.


..almost all so-called "enlightened masters and teachers" have fallen in to the trap of surrendering themselves to a "god" or "oneness" that just reflects their level of DNA activation,which is mostly very low going by their teachings
When one is going criticizing 'almost all' so-called ... One should be very aware on the value of the truth teaching he is bearing. Because the debating or arguing truthfulness of spiritual teaching is a know trap of the ego.

The state of bliss you are talking about is the state of nirvana, or the state of being connected with the one. If one did not experience nirvana one cannot understand the longing to it. As if trying to explain to a child the feeling of an orgasm. The nirvana could be explained as a state of orgasmic spiritual experience. One cannot stay for long in the nirvana state. But once experienced you become addicted, literally.

The soul is source of being and is part of the wholeness/god/nature/cosmos/creator. The spiritual path is the path of experiencing the creation. Good or bad is only perceived in the dualistic material virtual game we are having together. Once a person is connected to the soul (in all cultures, all teaching) the person is in service to other. The connected person feels (in contrast to knows by teaching) the connection to all all and the self responsibility. The awakened person see the others as part of himself. And all nature is part of himself.

This connectedness is termed, cold selfless love. Cold because all are equally loved, ones family are as loved as ones enemy. I think (in contrast to feel) that the Tibeten Dalai Lama is a fully connected person.
Being connected is also very painful to genuinely feel empathic all the suffering of others. And very lonely as well. So being connected in as a physical being is a 100% being in service to other. Others just ascend and do not return.

shiva777
15th July 2010, 20:36
yeah,I know you guys don't get it...they have partial truths and partial "nirvana",,,given to them by the level of DNA they work on and which limits their awareness...much of what the "masters" teach is truth but what it is that is missing is where the TRUE awakened states are,,,in a decade or 2 these things will become obvious to many more

greybeard
15th July 2010, 20:51
Shiva777.
I appreciate you mean well and believe what you are sharing.
We are in spiritual kindergarten that is true but there is a certain sequence to evolution, the next class being enlightenment or Christ consciousness.
You cant take a primary school child and expect him or her to understand physics, its irrelevant at that stage.
DNA is of the physical body we have no need of it when we leave.
If we reincarnate we will probably come back into a body with evolved DNA. It may evolve rapidly 2012 who knows.
We dont drive model T Fords any more they served their purpose and we have moved on.
Evolution and creation are the same thing, God is in every act of creation and evolution. It happens first in the formless then manifests in form.
Chris

shiva777
15th July 2010, 21:00
you have fallen for the dogma and false ascension teachings...you don't understand DNA or the relationship between spirit and body at all.....I hope you wake up soon..Time and space happen ALL AT ONCE and ALL IN THE SAME SPACE.some clues

PathWalker
15th July 2010, 21:04
Shiva777.
We dont drive model T Fords any more they served their purpose and we have moved on.
Evolution and creation are the same thing, God is in every act of creation and evolution. It happens first in the formless then manifests in form.
Chris

Hallelujah for that.
I would add that since we are here in the physical duality game. We should better play it alright. We came here for reason with a mission to accomplish. Debating is one aspect of the mission.
But as you said one will not evolve till one is ready no matter how many reflections/mirror/accidents/suffering one experience. When the soul has the intention the person will grow. We have to wait and respect the soul choices.
To me this is a very difficult lesson, learning to respect and honor soul choices.

Joy and happiness. May the light shine on you and through you.

shiva777
15th July 2010, 21:16
of course,everythin g happens in GOD,,,question is are people evolving or devolving in terms of embodying divinity?...we are here to EMBODY GOD,which means activating DNA in OUR bodies so we can EMBODY more GOd conciousness...get some clues as to how our level of Dna activation determines where we go when we die or "ascend" and what we perceive and EXPERIENCE as "love" and God...and so much more

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

Loren
15th July 2010, 21:36
It's all great advice. Negative thoughts have to be acknowledged as they are an inherent part of this world , take a deep breath and let it pass through you and move on with the knowledge that you are not alone and the great spirit will prevail. I start my day by asking for protection and guidance ,give thanks and imagine a golden white bubble around ones self. There are thousands of other worlds and spirits looking out for you. I hope I'm on topic here ? In Science "Intent" has been a new interesting topic with experiments being done on a molecular level.

greybeard
15th July 2010, 21:47
of course,everythin g happens in GOD,,,question is are people evolving or devolving in terms of embodying divinity?...we are here to EMBODY GOD,which means activating DNA in OUR bodies so we can EMBODY more GOd conciousness...get some clues as to how our level of Dna activation determines where we go when we die or "ascend" and what we perceive and EXPERIENCE as "love" and God...and so much more

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

With respect Where we go on death of body has to do with our attractor field, level of consciousness, spiritual vibration.
It is always wise to cross check information. If information comes from one source only then it is a may be so. If it is coming from many sources over thousands of years and confirmed by subjective experience then it is so.
Any sage will laugh at dogma they are free of it they do not belong to any religion.
The Truth is not to be found in any dictionary or book though they can confirm personal subjective experience.
Every enlighten being has said the same thing since time began.
God is to found within.
God is the totality all of it.
The state of enlightenment is timeless, formless, omnipresent, omnipotent.
The ego wants more.
The ego looks for explanations, technique, information --- "in form ation"
We are formless in essence, what has DNA got to do with formless? It is not required by spirit.
In human evolving form we do need it but not otherwise.
Chris

shiva777
15th July 2010, 21:59
yeah,you have no idea Chris,you say "Every enlighten being has said the same thing since time began."...our history "since time began" has been largely erased and replaced by partial truths and partial "enlightened masters and experiences"...the teachings and experiences that are a result of our DNA being shut down and that's what the "enlightened beings" have been limited by

we are both formless and in FORM at the SAME TIME...one does not come before the other,time is simultaneous..


the lies and ignorance have been perpetuated for thousands of years and you are continuing it,look for the EVOLVING spiritual understandings and info being provided now...away from the clever dogma and tricks back to spiritual SCIENCE and the meeting of the mind and heart

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

greybeard
15th July 2010, 22:01
Ps Consciousness is rising at the moment and when Kundalini energy rises in the body it rewires our nervous system in order to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
Up till now because of the heavy density of Earth enlightenment has been rare, that is changing. Kundalini energy is rising in many at the moment.
Kundalini could be likened to Chi or even The Holy Spirit, this way there is more of God energy electrons in embodiment.--
its a complex subject but well documented in Indian texts --- non religious.
Just Love God and your fellow man -- What else is needed?
I suggest leave the rest to God
Chris

MariaDine
15th July 2010, 22:03
I leave here a text i like very much. Namaste

Freedom of Fear
An anthropologist once questioned an Alaskan shaman about his tribe's belief system. After putting up with the anthropologist's questions for a while, the shaman finally told him: "Look. We don't believe. We fear."

His words have intrigued me ever since I first heard them. I've also been intrigued by the responses I get when I share his words with my friends. Some say that the shaman unconsciously put his finger on the line separating primitive religion from civilized religion: primitive religion is founded on childish fear; civilized religion, on love, trust, and joy. Others maintain that the shaman cut through the pretensions and denials of civilized religion and pointed to the true source of all serious religious life.

If we dig down to the assumptions underlying these two responses, we find that the first response views fear itself as our greatest weakness. If we can simply overcome fear, we put ourselves in a position of strength. The second sees fear as the most honest response to our greater weakness in the face of aging, illness, and death — a weakness that can't be overcome with a simple change in attitude. If we're not in touch with our honest fears, we won't feel motivated to do what's needed to protect ourselves from genuine dangers.

So — which attitude toward fear is childish, and which is mature? Is there an element of truth in both? If so, how can those elements best be combined? These questions are best answered by rephrasing them: To what extent is fear a useful emotion? To what extent is it not? Does it have a role in the practice that puts an end to fear?

The Buddhist answer to these questions is complex. This is due partly to Buddhism's dual roots — both as a civilized and as a wilderness tradition — and also to the complexity of fear itself, even in its most primal forms. Think of a deer at night suddenly caught in a hunter's headlights. It's confused. Angry. It senses danger, and that it's weak in the face of the danger. It wants to escape. These five elements — confusion, aversion, a sense of danger, a sense of weakness, and a desire to escape — are present, to a greater or lesser extent, in every fear. The confusion and aversion are the unskillful elements. Even if the deer has many openings to escape from the hunter, its confusion and aversion might cause it to miss them. The same holds true for human beings. The mistakes and evils we commit when finding ourselves weak in the face of danger come from confusion and aversion.

Maddeningly, however, there are also evils that we commit out of complacency, when oblivious to actual dangers: the callous things we do when we feel we can get away with them. Thus the last three elements of fear — the perception of weakness, the perception of danger, and the desire to escape it — are needed to avoid the evils coming from complacency. If stripped of confusion and aversion, these three elements become a positive quality, heedfulness — something so essential to the practice that the Buddha devoted his last words to it. The dangers of life are real. Our weaknesses are real. If we don't see them clearly, don't take them to heart, and don't try to find a way out, there's no way we can put an end to the causes of our fears. Just like the deer: if it's complacent about the hunter's headlights, it's going to end up strapped to the fender for sure.

So to genuinely free the mind from fear, we can't simply deny that there's any reason for fear. We have to overcome the cause of fear: the mind's weaknesses in the face of very real dangers. The elegance of the Buddha's approach to this problem, though, lies in his insight into the confusion — or to use the standard Buddhist term, the delusion — that makes fear unskillful. Despite the complexity of fear, delusion is the single factor that, in itself, is both the mind's prime weakness and its greatest danger. Thus the Buddha approaches the problem of fear by focusing on delusion, and he attacks delusion in two ways: getting us to think about its dangerous role in making fear unskillful, and getting us to develop inner strengths leading to the insights that free the mind from the delusions that make it weak. In this way we not only overcome the factor that makes fear unskillful. We ultimately put the mind in a position where it has no need for fear.

When we think about how delusion infects fear and incites us to do unskillful things, we see that it can act in two ways. First, the delusions surrounding our fears can cause us to misapprehend the dangers we face, seeing danger where there is none, and no danger where there is. If we obsess over non-existent or trivial dangers, we'll squander time and energy building up useless defenses, diverting our attention from genuine threats. If, on the other hand, we put the genuine dangers of aging, illness, and death out of our minds, we grow complacent in our actions. We let ourselves cling to things — our bodies, our loved ones, our possessions, our views — that leave us exposed to aging, illness, separation, and death in the first place. We allow our cravings to take charge of the mind, sometimes to the point of doing evil with impunity, thinking we're immune to the results of our evil, that those results will never return to harm us.

The more complacent we are about the genuine dangers lying in wait all around us, the more shocked and confused we become when they actually hit. This leads to the second way in which the delusions surrounding our fears promote unskillful actions: we react to genuine dangers in ways that, instead of ending the dangers, actually create new ones. We amass wealth to provide security, but wealth creates a high profile that excites jealousy in others. We build walls to keep out dangerous people, but those walls become our prisons. We stockpile weapons, but they can easily be turned against us.

The most unskillful response to fear is when, perceiving dangers to our own life or property, we believe that we can gain strength and security by destroying the lives and property of others. The delusion pervading our fear makes us lose perspective. If other people were to act in this way, we would know they were wrong. But somehow, when we feel threatened, our standards change, our perspective warps, so that wrong seems right as long as we're the ones doing it.

This is probably the most disconcerting human weakness of all: our inability to trust ourselves to do the right thing when the chips are down. If standards of right and wrong are meaningful only when we find them convenient, they have no real meaning at all.

Fortunately, though, the area of life posing the most danger and insecurity is the area where, through training, we can make the most changes and exercise the most control. Although aging, illness, and death follow inevitably on birth, delusion doesn't. It can be prevented. If, through thought and contemplation, we become heedful of the dangers it poses, we can feel motivated to overcome it. However, the insights coming from simple thought and contemplation aren't enough to fully understand and overthrow delusion. It's the same as with any revolution: no matter how much you may think about the matter, you don't really know the tricks and strengths of entrenched powers until you amass your own troops and do battle with them. And only when your own troops develop their own tricks and strengths can they come out on top. So it is with delusion: only when you develop mental strengths can you see through the delusions that give fear its power. Beyond that, these strengths can put you in a position where you are no longer exposed to dangers ever again.

The Canon lists these mental strengths at five: conviction, persistence, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment. It also emphasizes the role that heedfulness plays in developing each, for heedfulness is what enables each strength to counteract a particular delusion that makes fear unskillful, and the mind weak in the face of its fears. What this means is that none of these strengths are mere brute forces. Each contains an element of wisdom and discernment, which gets more penetrating as you progress along the list.

Of the five strengths, conviction requires the longest explanation, both because it's one of the most misunderstood and under-appreciated factors in the Buddhist path, and because of the multiple delusions it has to counteract.

The conviction here is conviction in the principle of karma: that the pleasure and pain we experience depends on the quality of the intentions on which we act. This conviction counteracts the delusion that "It's not in my best interest to stick to moral principles in the face of danger," and it attacks this delusion in three ways.

First, it insists on what might be called the "boomerang" or "spitting into the wind" principle of karmic cause and effect. If you act on harmful intentions, regardless of the situation, the harm will come back to you. Even if unskillful actions such as killing, stealing, or lying might bring short-term advantages, these are more than offset by the long-term harm to which they leave you exposed.

Conversely, this same principle can make us brave in doing good. If we're convinced that the results of skillful intentions will have to return to us even if death intervenes, we can more easily make the sacrifices demanded by long-term endeavors for our own good and that of others. Whether or not we live to see the results in this lifetime, we're convinced that the good we do is never lost. In this way, we develop the courage needed to build a store of skillful actions — generous and virtuous — that forms our first line of defense against dangers and fear.

Second, conviction insists on giving priority to your state of mind above all else, for that's what shapes your intentions. This counteracts the corollary to the first delusion: "What if sticking to my principles makes it easier for people to do me harm?" This question is based ultimately on the delusion that life is our most precious possession. If that were true, it would be a pretty miserable possession, for it heads inexorably to death. Conviction views our life as precious only to the extent that it's used to develop the mind, for the mind — when developed — is something that no one, not even death, can harm. "Quality of life" is measured by the quality and integrity of the intentions on which we act, just as "quality time" is time devoted to the practice. Or, in the Buddha's words:

Better than a hundred years
lived without virtue, uncentered, is
one day
lived by a virtuous person
absorbed in jhana.
— Dhp 110

Third, conviction insists that the need for integrity is unconditional. Even though other people may throw away their most valuable possession — their integrity — it's no excuse for us to throw away ours. The principle of karma isn't a traffic ordinance in effect only on certain hours of the day or certain days of the week. It's a law operating around the clock, around the cycles of the cosmos.

Some people have argued that, because the Buddha recognized the principle of conditionality, he would have no problem with the idea that our virtues should depend on conditions as well. This is a misunderstanding of the principle. To begin with, conditionality doesn't simply mean that everything is changeable and contingent. It's like the theory of relativity. Relativity doesn't mean that all things are relative. It simply replaces mass and time — which long were considered constants — with another, unexpected constant: the speed of light. Mass and time may be relative to a particular inertial frame, as the frame relates to the speed of light, but the laws of physics are constant for all inertial frames, regardless of speed.

In the same way, conditionality means that there are certain unchanging patterns to contingency and change — one of those patterns being that unskillful intentions, based on craving and delusion, invariably lead to unpleasant results.

If we learn to accept this pattern, rather than our feelings and opinions, as absolute, it requires us to become more ingenious in dealing with danger. Instead of following our unskillful knee-jerk reactions, we learn to think outside the box to find responses that best prevent harm of any kind. This gives our actions added precision and grace.

At the same time, we have to note that the Buddha didn't teach conditionality simply to encourage acceptance for the inevitability of change. He taught it to show how the patterns underlying change can be mastered to create an opening that leads beyond conditionality and change. If we want to reach the unconditioned — the truest security — our integrity has to be unconditional, a gift of temporal security not only to those who treat us well, but to everyone, without exception. As the texts say, when you abstain absolutely from doing harm, you give a great gift — freedom from danger to limitless beings — and you yourself find a share in that limitless freedom as well.

Conviction and integrity of this sort make great demands on us. Until we gain our first taste of the unconditioned, they can easily be shaken. This is why they have to be augmented with other mental strengths. The three middle strengths — persistence, mindfulness, and concentration — act in concert. Persistence, in the form of right effort, counteracts the delusion that we're no match for our fears, that once they arise we have to give into them. Right effort gives us practice in eliminating milder unskillful qualities and developing skillful ones in their place, so that when stronger unskillful qualities arise, we can use our skillful qualities as allies in fending them off. The strength of mindfulness assists this process in two ways. (1) It reminds us of the danger of giving in to fear. (2) It teaches us to focus our attention, not on the object of our fear, but on the fear in and of itself as a mental event, something we can watch from the outside rather jumping in and going along for a ride. The strength of concentration, in providing the mind with a still center of wellbeing, puts us in a solid position where we don't feel compelled to identify with fears as they come, and where the comings and goings of internal and external dangers are less and less threatening to the mind.

Even then, though, the mind can't reach ultimate security until it uproots the causes of these comings and goings, which is why the first four strengths require the strength of discernment to make them fully secure. Discernment is what sees that these comings and goings are ultimately rooted in our sense of "I" and "mine," and that "I" and "mine" are not built into experience. They come from the repeated processes of I-making and my-making, in which we impose these notions on experience and identify with things subject to aging, illness, and death. Furthermore, discernment sees through our inner traitors and weaknesses: the cravings that want us to make an "I" and "mine"; the delusions that make us believe in them once they're made. It realizes that this level of delusion is precisely the factor that makes aging, illness, and death dangerous to begin with. If we didn't identify with things that age, grow ill, and die, their aging, illness, and death wouldn't threaten the mind. Totally unthreatened, the mind would have no reason to do anything unskillful ever again.

When this level of discernment matures and bears the fruit of release, our greatest insecurity — our inability to trust ourselves — has been eliminated. Freed from the attachments of "I" and "mine," we find that the component factors of fear — both skillful and unskillful — are gone. There's no remaining confusion or aversion; the mind is no longer weak in the face of danger; and so there's nothing from which we need to escape.

This is where the questions raised by the shaman's remarks find their answers. We fear because we believe in "we." We believe in "we" because of the delusion in our fear. Paradoxically, though, if we love ourselves enough to fear the suffering that comes from unskillful actions and attachments, and learn to believe in the way out, we'll develop the strengths that allow us to cut through our cravings, delusions, and attachments. That way, the entire complex — the "we," the fear, the beliefs, the attachments — dissolves away. The freedom remaining is the only true security there is.

This teaching may offer cold comfort to anyone who wants the impossible: security for his or her attachments. But in trading away the hope for an impossible security, you gain the reality of a happiness totally independent and condition-free. Once you've made this trade, you know that the pay-off is more than worth the price. As one of the Buddha's students once reported, "Before, when I was a householder, maintaining the bliss of kingship, I had guards posted within and without the royal apartments, within and without the city, within and without the countryside. But even though I was thus guarded, thus protected, I dwelled in fear — agitated, distrustful, and afraid. But now, on going alone to a forest, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty dwelling, I dwell without fear, unagitated, confident, and unafraid — unconcerned, unruffled, my wants satisfied, with my mind like a wild deer. This is the meaning I have in mind that I repeatedly exclaim, 'What bliss! What bliss!'"

His deer is obviously not the deer in the headlights. It's a deer safe in the wilderness, at its ease wherever it goes. What makes it more than a deer is that, free from attachment, it's called a "consciousness without surface." Light goes right through it. The hunter can't shoot it, for it can't be seen.

MariaDine
15th July 2010, 22:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbVVbDpGzM&feature=related

greybeard
15th July 2010, 22:20
yeah,you have no idea Chris,you say "Every enlighten being has said the same thing since time began."...our history "since time began" has been largely erased and replaced by partial truths and partial "enlightened masters and experiences"...the teachings and experiences that are a result of our DNA being shut down and that's what the "enlightened beings" have been limited by

we are both formless and in FORM at the SAME TIME...one does not come before the other,time is simultaneous..


the lies and ignorance have been perpetuated for thousands of years and you are continuing it,look for the EVOLVING spiritual understandings and info being provided now...away from the clever dogma and tricks back to spiritual SCIENCE and the meeting of the mind and heart

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

With respect.
Go read Dr David Hawkins Truth vs Falsehood.
Everything that has ever happened is recorded in the field of consciousness and can be accessed and verified by using muscle testing kineosology.
Tests have been done over a twenty year period using scientific standards and double binds and are providing consistent answers, only drawback is that only about 20% of the population can do this accurately.
The questioner and the questions must be integreous.
Anyway you are free to believe what you want but that does not necessarily make it so because you are taking some one elses word for it without personal experiencing it to be true, are you not?
I know what I know through subjective personal experience and though I am not enlightened have experienced spiritual states of bliss without being in a meditative state.
I am not trying to convince any one just sharing.
Chris

shiva777
15th July 2010, 22:21
Kinesiology is a very limited practice that works within certain parameters but is sorely lacking in ability to connect to higher wisdom and guidance,,the TRUTH changes at every level and Kinesiology works on lower levels..Hawkins is lost in his little paradigm and his Kinesiology has mislead many others,,,as Hawkins says "you can only understand something from the level that you are at"...it's like speaking to a brick wall Chris,you have your walls up

Gautama buddha is being re-educated on the inner planes to get him out of his bliss-bubble and awaken his dormant DNA...his first mistake is that he believed "life is suffering and impermanent"...Our origina human blueprint does not suffer or age or DIE...it is an eternal form that was messed with by Fallen ET groups...our DNA is coming online again and as it does more will see through the misunderstandings and deceptions that Buddha and co were trapped in that resulted in his limited teachings about enlightenment

morguana
15th July 2010, 22:28
Ps Consciousness is rising at the moment and when Kundalini energy rises in the body it rewires our nervous system in order to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
Up till now because of the heavy density of Earth enlightenment has been rare, that is changing. Kundalini energy is rising in many at the moment.
Kundalini could be likened to Chi or even The Holy Spirit, this way there is more of God energy electrons in embodiment.--
its a complex subject but well documented in Indian texts --- non religious.
Just Love God and your fellow man -- What else is needed?
I suggest leave the rest to God
Chris

beautifully put chris, am in total agreement with your words
m

shiva777
15th July 2010, 22:42
one of the most loving things you can do is to look behind the spiritual and religious dogmas that have mislead humanity in to being naive,loving little servants for false "gods" and distorted dimensional fields...many are waking up to that now and becoming wiser awakened beings who no longer fall for the teachings of the fallen matrix/spiritual realms..

for those who are seeing through the old religious/spiritual paqradigms,this may help...science and spirit evolve to be one and the same thing

www.keylonticdictionary.org

frank samuel
15th July 2010, 22:58
I think although we might disagree on many things it is highly dangerous for anyone to proclaim to have or be the absolute truth authority as we are all learning from each other here. Chris has a vast amount of experience as well as many others members here on this forum. Wisdom and spiritual development comes with experience, as a young man I thought I knew the truth and was eager to let everyone have a piece of my truth not understanding that my attitude along was a very poor indicator of that which I was proclaiming to be the truth. The way we carry our message shows a lot about our spiritual state and development. One thing I know for sure everyone has the right to err that does not mean I have to devalue the belief of others by promoting mines. Respect for each others opinion whether we agree with it or not might help to promote the so call truth we all feel so necessary to convey.

Many many blessings to all.:grouphug::wub:

truthseekerdan
16th July 2010, 00:11
one of the most loving things you can do is to look behind the spiritual and religious dogmas

for those who are seeing through the old religious/spiritual paqradigms,this may help...science and spirit evolve to be one and the same thing


I strongly suggest shiva777, that you read Chris' Life Testimony, (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?143-Life-is-as-it-is) and see that he is not a religious nor a dogmatic person.
Please read it and decide for yourself. Also will be nice of you to show a little more respect, even if you don't agree with his beliefs or views, you might learn something in the process.
Just wanted to point that out... Thank you for your understanding.

May the Great Spirit enlighten you, :)

Dan

Beren
16th July 2010, 00:19
of course,everythin g happens in GOD,,,question is are people evolving or devolving in terms of embodying divinity?...we are here to EMBODY GOD,which means activating DNA in OUR bodies so we can EMBODY more GOd conciousness...get some clues as to how our level of Dna activation determines where we go when we die or "ascend" and what we perceive and EXPERIENCE as "love" and God...and so much more

www.keylonticdictionary.org beyond the dogma and simplistc deceptions

I think you do not understand what some are saying. You try to explain unexplainable by materialistic approach. That is irrelevant before God.
It`s just like plasteline which kids get in school to practice molding. For God ,everything material is plasteline.It can always be changed.
And I think you talk about that.

Spiritual way is completely different dimension. Which can not be reached by any mechanical or material means.

Anchor
16th July 2010, 01:15
John ,you spoke in one of the comments about bad guys utilizing fear, now what do you think about utilizing love on others?
In all of love's forms...

Beren, your question pulls me like a magnet back to this thread :)

My thinking is that one does not "utilize" love. I will try to explain the idea I have in detail.

In order to form an outcome, one takes action to cause that to happen. In the course of doing that one must have previously had some idea of what it is that one wants to achieve. This is what I mean by intent.

Now, if one's intent is dark, and thus working against the divine flow - the principles of unconditional love, nurturance of life and expansion of consciousness, then one will rely on a strategy of disharmony in order to achieve one's aims. For example, blocking the light with fear, and casting a shadow where love is reduced. This has been possible to do on our planet by the concerted efforts of dark forces, who have led humans into focusing on base things: misused of sexual functions, conflict, disharmony, war and materialism (all kinds of " 'isms " in fact) etc. With the outcome that fear is created in the imprisoned minds – reducing people to building and maintaining their own prisons and being willing and somewhat ignorant slaves to the dark forces.

However, with the changes that are happening now, the normal routine employed by the dark forces is not so effective anymore. The poor old dark forces are trying to hold back an unstoppable tide of light and love. They build sandcastles only to see them washed away - they are finding that they did not build on solid foundations.

On the other hand, if one's intent is going with the flow of the divine then everything is different. Correctly envisioned intent causes the mechanics of the universe simply rush to your aid, and bring with them infinite abundance and resource to manifest the desired outcomes. Everything becomes a lot easier.

We are heading rapidly to a state where the dualities of our reality will be so far behind us, fear won’t even be a factor any more.

In the model I have attempted to describe - the closest thing I can say about "utilizing" love in the sense that I think you mean it is to express love unconditionally. Fear not - Be love - Be here now. Unconditional means not even attempting to judge another's qualities or assessing their right to be on the receiving end of that love. It is not something one plans, when you decide to open your heart, you really need free yourself from inner created judgemental patterns - otherwise it will hurt. The love flows from the universe through the matrices of our being and is transduced into a form that becomes part of our co-created consensus reality.

So what do I personally think (disclaimers on personal opinions apply...) I think mentally expressing blessings for people would be a good example. Even when those people are some of the darkest ever to walk the planet! I think it’s a good idea! Don’t hold back. Embrace the “sandcastles” of duality. Learn from them. Love them - and let your love merge with the tide that will eventually wash them away.

Once again - thanks for the question and this scintillating thread.

It is Friday here and most of the people around me are feeling good about it - that is nice. Bless you all, and I hope you all have an amazing weekend.

John..

Anchor
16th July 2010, 01:37
no, everything DEPENDS upon your level of DNA awakening...almost all so-called "enlightened masters and teachers" have fallen in to the trap of surrendering themselves to a "god" or "oneness" that just reflects their level of DNA activation,which is mostly very low going by their teachings,they don't understand the mechanics of conciousness and hence think they have reached some kind of "enlightenment",the "enlightenment" their reliogions or false creator gods wish them to be deceived in to...it's the old "love,light and clueless" program that has sucked them in to these bubbles of "enlightenment" created by these fallen "gods"...on higher dimensions their oversouls and Avatar selves know this...when you activate higher levels of DNA you do not fall in to that trap...again,most of you won't understand that and will fall in to the same traps as those "bliss-bunnies" have where they have merged with "gods" or "sources" that are far from pure expressions of ORIGNAL GOD SOURCE,they are holding tanks where conciousness can be used as food for the energies they have surrendered to..if you are coming from a place of suffering and pain those false "enlightenment" states will look and sound even greater...if you come from a wiser level of activation you will see the traps being laid by almost all "teachers and masters" mostly unknowingly and from a state of love,light and cluelessness
wake up

Shiva777,

1) Convince me that you just didn't fall into the same trap?

I for one think you have. Your path seems massively complex to me and appears to risk tying up the resources of the limited human physical mind into an intellectual gordian knot from which escape would be close to impossible. Maybe one day my conciousness and intellect will expand to a degree that this wont seem complex any more! Then I may give it a shot.

2) The imagary you use in your "warnings" seems designed to create fear in those that don't follow your "narrow" path. I am not interested in following teachings that use the fear stick.

3) Personally speaking, I find your style extremely judgemental - its all them and us. I can live with it, and your information deserves expression, but the way you do it "colours" your posts in a way that probably takes them far from what you are trying to acheive given the audience here.


John..

greybeard
16th July 2010, 03:29
I would like to thank my friends for their comments.
As you know Truth does not need anything other than to be shared as it is by many here.
Those that can see it will.
As one sage said when threatened with beheading by Alexander the great. Cut my head off and we will both watch it fall to the ground.
I no longer have fear and my mind is mainly silent, that is by the Grace of the one and only God.
Of myself I do nothing.
As said the intellect will take one so far then is to be dispensed with or as Ramana said "Use a thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away."
I agree with John and many others here. When I was filled with the first fire of spiritual enthusiasm (all isms best disposed of) I ran around like a headless chicken trying to convert everyone to my point of view. Now I just share my understanding of the moment as many do here.
Many New age teachings have been modified to suit a new audience a new set of believers. Anything that teaches specialness or separation or fear is not of God, how could it be? Fear and Love cannot co-exist.
Everyone is free to choose fear or choose God.
chris
Namaste

shiva777
16th July 2010, 03:39
yeah,you guys don't get it and you go off on all kinds of tangents...I expected that...some people need to learn the hard way,I hope it's not too hard for you all...the intellect is a tool that has been much maligned by spiritual teachers and gurus who don't understand that they have been mislead in to bliss-bubbles that eventually pop...empowerment is NOT fear,and the more knowledge you have the more power you get,the only fear I see here is your reactions to my posts

3 people have sent me private messages thanking me for my link and input in this thread ...and they actually checked it out and registered for free...so for others out there who see through the hypnotism of the accepted spiritual teachings being defended by others in this thread...here is the link again

www.keylonticdictionary.org learn about how clever the traps have been set and how those traps have been spread by people such as Hawkins,Tolle,Ramana and co...out of ignorance and limited bliss states

greybeard
16th July 2010, 03:53
Sorry but Bliss has to be surrendered too.
There is no it to get you are already it. it is not different from what you are. It being Truth.
God is within and not in any teaching. All true teachers point to it being within.
Ultimate truth is, only God is.
You have been shown love Shiva777
The rest is up to you.
Love or fear? No contest for me.
Chris Namaste

Anchor
16th July 2010, 05:08
www.keylonticdictionary.org learn about how clever the traps have been set and how those traps have been spread by people such as Hawkins,Tolle,Ramana and co...out of ignorance and limited bliss states

Thanks for the link.

PathWalker
16th July 2010, 12:00
...I expected that...some people need to learn the hard way,I hope it's not too hard for you all...

I agree with the quote above. I would have replaced you with us. As a token of being humble.
We (me included) learn through experience then, if and when: we evolve with suffering and struggle.
Two questions for shive777. Following your truth.
1. Why do we evolve/enlighten?
2. What is truth?

Joy and happiness
may the light shine into you and through you.

Beren
16th July 2010, 13:55
I again state that no one can explain spiritual matters by material means... Many though try... :rolleyes:

greybeard
16th July 2010, 14:12
I again state that no one can explain spiritual matters by material means... Many though try... :rolleyes:

Agree Beren
The longest distance is from the head to the heart..
It can take many life times.
Thanks again for starting the thread my friend, Im sure a lot of good is coming of it.
Now about the pint of ginger beer you promised me.
Or send the pieces of 8. Spanish Doubloons would do. Lol
Chris

Beren
17th July 2010, 09:08
Beren, your question pulls me like a magnet back to this thread :)

My thinking is that one does not "utilize" love. I will try to explain the idea I have in detail.

In order to form an outcome, one takes action to cause that to happen. In the course of doing that one must have previously had some idea of what it is that one wants to achieve. This is what I mean by intent.

Now, if one's intent is dark, and thus working against the divine flow - the principles of unconditional love, nurturance of life and expansion of consciousness, then one will rely on a strategy of disharmony in order to achieve one's aims. For example, blocking the light with fear, and casting a shadow where love is reduced. This has been possible to do on our planet by the concerted efforts of dark forces, who have led humans into focusing on base things: misused of sexual functions, conflict, disharmony, war and materialism (all kinds of " 'isms " in fact) etc. With the outcome that fear is created in the imprisoned minds – reducing people to building and maintaining their own prisons and being willing and somewhat ignorant slaves to the dark forces.

However, with the changes that are happening now, the normal routine employed by the dark forces is not so effective anymore. The poor old dark forces are trying to hold back an unstoppable tide of light and love. They build sandcastles only to see them washed away - they are finding that they did not build on solid foundations.

On the other hand, if one's intent is going with the flow of the divine then everything is different. Correctly envisioned intent causes the mechanics of the universe simply rush to your aid, and bring with them infinite abundance and resource to manifest the desired outcomes. Everything becomes a lot easier.

We are heading rapidly to a state where the dualities of our reality will be so far behind us, fear won’t even be a factor any more.

In the model I have attempted to describe - the closest thing I can say about "utilizing" love in the sense that I think you mean it is to express love unconditionally. Fear not - Be love - Be here now. Unconditional means not even attempting to judge another's qualities or assessing their right to be on the receiving end of that love. It is not something one plans, when you decide to open your heart, you really need free yourself from inner created judgemental patterns - otherwise it will hurt. The love flows from the universe through the matrices of our being and is transduced into a form that becomes part of our co-created consensus reality.

So what do I personally think (disclaimers on personal opinions apply...) I think mentally expressing blessings for people would be a good example. Even when those people are some of the darkest ever to walk the planet! I think it’s a good idea! Don’t hold back. Embrace the “sandcastles” of duality. Learn from them. Love them - and let your love merge with the tide that will eventually wash them away.

Once again - thanks for the question and this scintillating thread.

It is Friday here and most of the people around me are feeling good about it - that is nice. Bless you all, and I hope you all have an amazing weekend.

John..


Those things that happen inside of our soul are really hard to explain. But I think you did well.
In the essence all that counts is the intent . From intent all other is in the process of development . Now this concept is not easy to grasp since most of the people do not think about it. We are just programmed to live like this or like that. Of course we can brake the program but it takes realization of WHAT to brake. From today's point of understanding we can begin to grasp of deeper insights that Christ gave us when he said in lay term in order for that day people to even begin to understand.
"all comes from the heart" or "even if you thought of taking another man's wife- you already made an adultery"...

Intent of the heart and soul means all.

PathWalker
17th July 2010, 13:22
Those things that happen inside of our soul are really hard to explain. But I think you did well.
In the essence all that counts is the intent . From intent all other is in the process of development . Now this concept is not easy to grasp since most of the people do not think about it. We are just programmed to live like this or like that. Of course we can brake the program but it takes realization of WHAT to brake. From today's point of understanding we can begin to grasp of deeper insights that Christ gave us when he said in lay term in order for that day people to even begin to understand.
"all comes from the heart" or "even if you thought of taking another man's wife- you already made an adultery"...
Intent of the heart and soul means all.

100% truth.
It is possible to elaborate here on the free choice/free will to walk a path.
As said we are programmed, when we awaken we take control over our programming.
Being good or bad is a moral issue that change with geography and time.
I would replace good => being in service to others, bad => being in service to self.
This is the essence of duality.
The actual action or personally is never 100% on either side. The personality is moving along the continuum.
Therefore in order to evolve the duality game, we need to surrender to the diving (what ever it be is part of the intention).

Beren
17th July 2010, 19:44
100% truth.
It is possible to elaborate here on the free choice/free will to walk a path.
As said we are programmed, when we awaken we take control over our programming.
Being good or bad is a moral issue that change with geography and time.
I would replace good => being in service to others, bad => being in service to self.
This is the essence of duality.
The actual action or personally is never 100% on either side. The personality is moving along the continuum.
Therefore in order to evolve the duality game, we need to surrender to the diving (what ever it be is part of the intention).

Right.

It`s a really good example when you wrote about ;
good => being in service to others, bad => being in service to self.
This is the essence of duality.

To even more simplify the matter , one glass can take certain amount of water. After that water can not fill in the glass, instead it`s going over glass`s edge.
Now one glass can contain all the water in the universe.
How?
By sharing it. When it`s full ,you then sip it somewhere (throat, meal, plant...), then it can be refilled and while it can be refilled ,it actually shared water with ones whom were in need of it.
So one glass can be a hero and other just a sandy crystal thing-essentially empty.

We are made according to God`s image and the moment we act as a unsharing glass we will stop developing permanently. Unless if we decide or realize that non sharing God`s life force and love and all that is of God is simply life ending to one.
Being or beings that were named "fallen" were and are the ones whom selfishly decided that they want all for themselves.
How sad that they were filled quickly.
How sad that they do not see how actually empty they are!

shiva777
17th July 2010, 19:51
The remembering process began first with a group of individuals who were actually born with more than the 12 strands of the Angelic template. These individuals are known as Indigos. They have come into this Time Matrix specifically to work together with the Angelic Humans in assisting the planet during the SAC transition, despite the dangers involved. In doing so they risked forgetting why they came, since they needed to enter bodies that carry the same distortions that the Angelic Human template carries—distortions that wipe out all memories of previous lifetimes and block communication with the higher dimensional selves.

The additional DNA strand templates carried by Indigos, assist them in countering the innumerable distortions within the DNA. These extra strands help them to activate their own strands more rapidly—and in turn to down-step their activations to Angelic humans through the energetic connections both groups share. The additional DNA strands also help them to see more quickly through the misinformation surrounding them, and to remember why they have come into this Time Matrix in the first place. (If you have read this far, you are probably one of these Indigos who came in to help the planet and all life forms through the coming SAC.)

With greater DNA activation comes higher dimensional awareness and higher sensory perception. But due to the distortions on the planet, the process continues to be a slow, challenging one, requiring extra effort to dismantle the blockages. In order to make the shift during the coming SAC—and to assist others in this process—the distortions need to be healed quickly so the activations can occur.


http://www.azuritepress.com/dna_activation.php

greybeard
17th July 2010, 20:21
So true Beren
Similarly you can light endless candles with one lit candle without diminishing the original flame. Thats God for you.
He is the eternal flame that lights all of us up with eternal life.
Chris

PathWalker
17th July 2010, 22:19
I concur with Beren on the light vessels.
The Kabbalah which is the Jewish mysticism use the metaphor of light vessels.
The more evolve the light vessel is the more light is going through.
That is why I bless: may the light shine into your and through you :)

In response to shiva777.
There are many stories about the fallen of conscious from diverse cultures. The DNA story is the most modern. Our ancestors did not have the DNA term.
I would say few years from now we will replace the DNA term with something like holographic footprint. Because the DNA is holographic tool to access other dimensions of reality not acknowledged by mainstream science yet.

Yet the collective Ascension Descension is part of greater game we (our souls) play, as we chose to have this duality game/adventure here in this dimension. The beloved Gaya has her path as well, with many cycles of life. We are seeds of god, having an holographic composition.
The DNA is very physical dense aspect of the holographic composition.

The intent is the tool of creation, as I learn from many sources. The DNA is one mechanism. The masters/sidha that have full control over matter do not use DNA. They use their command of the oneness.
If you saw the Matrix movie there is a scene where a child I learning to bend spoon and he says. "Do not try to bend the spoon, be the spoon", I find this quote very profound. But I am just learning the path as we all are.

Joy and happiness
May the light shine into you and through you

greybeard
17th July 2010, 22:34
Dear PathWalker
You could say some light bulbs are dimmer than others because there is more resistance.
Chris
Namaste

Beren
18th July 2010, 10:23
Dear PathWalker
You could say some light bulbs are dimmer than others because there is more resistance.
Chris
Namaste

Hi Chris,

It`s because some light bulbs are afraid.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Pathwalker,

you spoke about things which is usually hard to understand, on a way that is understandable.
That is already one good deed, putting light over so others can grasp at it.
One by one ,big or small good deeds are wonderful!

greybeard
18th July 2010, 12:00
Fear the obstacle, Love, devotion to God and humility to surrender to Divine will the antidote
In God we trust.
I know nothing. ( apart from asking for help from God works)
I just assume I do.
That makes an ass out of you and me
Ch

Beren
18th July 2010, 14:23
Fear the obstacle, Love, devotion to God and humility to surrender to Divine will the antidote
In God we trust.
I know nothing. ( apart from asking for help from God works)
I just assume I do.
That makes an ass out of you and me
Ch


Ginger ale ,a?

:thumb:

Beren
18th July 2010, 14:28
Love God with all your heart,soul ,mind.
Love thy neighbor as your self.


I saw in my thoughts and reality this eternal maxima.
Whenever I was thinking and aligning myself with God a situation emerged where I was about to or not to, show the love to my neighbor.
And I did.

Then I saw how the power worked.
Love.Justice.Wisdom.Power.

It`s just wonderful how those four are intermingled. :p

PathWalker
18th July 2010, 19:34
Then I saw how the power worked.
Love.Justice.Wisdom.Power.

It`s just wonderful how those four are intermingled. :p

Beloved baren, you mention Love, Wisdom and Power which I agree and striving for as well.
As for justice I am afraid of human justice and judgment. I do still have fears I have to work out.

Personally I trust the 12 laws of Karma (as much as I can), leaving justice to Karma.
My belief is that the more awaken you are the quicker the Karma laws manifest.

Love
Joy and happiness

Beren
18th July 2010, 20:34
Beloved baren, you mention Love, Wisdom and Power which I agree and striving for as well.
As for justice I am afraid of human justice and judgment. I do still have fears I have to work out.

Personally I trust the 12 laws of Karma (as much as I can), leaving justice to Karma.
My belief is that the more awaken you are the quicker the Karma laws manifest.

Love
Joy and happiness

Well in order to become true sons & daughters of God we must embody those four virtues. Love , Justice , Wisdom and Power.
We occupy them partially but we have to live them fully or we will never succeed.
Justice, as you mentioned is always true when you do not take sides. When you hold to the eternal principles.

But we are often weak and thus justice fails in our eyes.
But in reality justice never fails.
What you sow ,you will reap it.

You must take responsibility for your actions.
Trying to avoid that made you a fugitive from justice...and no one can escape justice.

Be blessed friend,

Beren

greybeard
18th July 2010, 20:43
I am manifesting a guiness for you Beren.
Go to your local and tell the bar man to charge it to me Lo.
Thanks again for the thread and your friendship.
Chris

Beren
18th July 2010, 20:50
I am manifesting a guiness for you Beren.
Go to your local and tell the bar man to charge it to me Lo.
Thanks again for the thread and your friendship.
Chris

Well mariner, I will meet you one day with my good old friend Earendil the mariner... :p
tricky things with sailors that they are more efficient with ales than rest of the pack ...:p
So I can manage one guiness , for more ....I will join you with ginger ales ,hah!

Be blessed friend ,

Beren

Anchor
18th July 2010, 22:55
Personally I trust the 12 laws of Karma (as much as I can)

I didn't know there were 12 laws of Karma. Please can you point me to a list?

Beren
19th July 2010, 15:51
I didn't know there were 12 laws of Karma. Please can you point me to a list?

I would like to hear as well .

Celine
19th July 2010, 15:54
Quick Google search gave me this...

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-12-Laws-Of-Karma

Beren
19th July 2010, 20:50
Quick Google search gave me this...

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-12-Laws-Of-Karma

beautiful!
:p

PathWalker
19th July 2010, 21:31
I didn't know there were 12 laws of Karma. Please can you point me to a list?

Greetings seekers,

I watched an interview with Steven L. Hairfield about his book The Twelve Sacred Principles of Karma (http://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Sacred-Principles-Karma/dp/0972008063) in my favorite site http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/interviews.htm

I found in google the following MP3 http://www.alternatives.org.uk/Site/DownloadMP3.aspx?ID=147&AltsList=False
and this link http://www.freado.com/read/4221/the-twelve-sacred-principles-of-karma-dr-steven-hairfield

Hope you will enjoy it as much as I do.
I am also embedding the rules into my life. (Still work in progress :peep:).

Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Initiate
19th July 2010, 22:03
Hello Beren and Friends. It's been a long time since I posted on project Avalon. I have been traveling the inner road and learning who I am and exploring how I am relates to thoughts that become action in this World and it's connection to the Spiritual World. All I can say is that it has been intense. It is one thing to hear about it and another thing to experience it.

In your initial post you mention the war. If you have a sense of humour but would also like to learn of the tactics that are employed by the dark ones in the spiritual world I would highly recommend "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis (Lion the witch and the wardrobe). Here is a link to the reading of the book by John Cleese. The Screwtape Letters (http://www.radiomickdanger.com/ListShows.php?seriesname=The%20Screwtape%20Letters )

Enjoy.

Beren
19th July 2010, 22:42
Hello Beren and Friends. It's been a long time since I posted on project Avalon. I have been traveling the inner road and learning who I am and exploring how I am relates to thoughts that become action in this World and it's connection to the Spiritual World. All I can say is that it has been intense. It is one thing to hear about it and another thing to experience it.

In your initial post you mention the war. If you have a sense of humour but would also like to learn of the tactics that are employed by the dark ones in the spiritual world I would highly recommend "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis (Lion the witch and the wardrobe). Here is a link to the reading of the book by John Cleese. The Screwtape Letters (http://www.radiomickdanger.com/ListShows.php?seriesname=The%20Screwtape%20Letters )

Enjoy.

Initiate, friend, I will look up this link tomorrow or very soon, thanks.
War for souls... war is being led from ancient time. Not in a form we are used to but in all forms.
All came from Father, all souls.
In some point some souls chose that they are sole deciders of good and bad ,which is questionable enough. Also they wish to impose on others by force of what to do ,think ,feel.
That is breaching of free will.
Others refused that acts and from then on we are at war.

Now a lot of experiences came from that war ,a lot of learning. Process is still going on.
Until God decides to stop it once and for all.
Being omnipotent and just -God - he knows what is best for us -his children.

Beren
21st July 2010, 20:06
Recently a thought came . A thought of a need to learn Creator`s languages.
In order to hear him and understand him.

He speaks every day but we do not listen or we do not know how or what to listen.
This lack of knowledge is being exploited by certain entities to impose on us their view of realities.

greybeard
21st July 2010, 21:41
I find that God talks to me through synchronism Beren.
I pray and if there is a genuine need rather than want, then perhaps a person will appear and the need is meet.
If its advice I need then a suggestion is made by a friend perhaps, If I ignore that and I do to test it, then it will come from some one else and some one else till I get it.
Another way is that the same challenge will surface repeatedly in my life situation till I try a different way of handling it. therefore I try to learn from my mistakes.

Regards Chris

Anchor
21st July 2010, 22:46
If you have a sense of humour but would also like to learn of the tactics that are employed by the dark ones in the spiritual world I would highly recommend "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis (Lion the witch and the wardrobe). Here is a link to the reading of the book by John Cleese. The Screwtape Letters (http://www.radiomickdanger.com/ListShows.php?seriesname=The%20Screwtape%20Letters )

I have been listening to these on my commute. They are very good. John Cleese does a superb job of reading this material. Thanks so much for this pointer!

John..

Beren
22nd July 2010, 14:31
I have been listening to these on my commute. They are very good. John Cleese does a superb job of reading this material. Thanks so much for this pointer!

John..



John,

would you choose to enlighten people ,the very people that throws rocks on you?

P.S.
this on a first glance does not have a thing with theme here but it may have :-)

Wood
22nd July 2010, 16:06
Here is a link to the reading of the book by John Cleese. The Screwtape Letters (http://www.radiomickdanger.com/ListShows.php?seriesname=The%20Screwtape%20Letters )

Thank you for that. I've found the book in pdf and I'm reading it. Just what I needed today :)

Beren
22nd July 2010, 21:40
Hello Beren and Friends. It's been a long time since I posted on project Avalon. I have been traveling the inner road and learning who I am and exploring how I am relates to thoughts that become action in this World and it's connection to the Spiritual World. All I can say is that it has been intense. It is one thing to hear about it and another thing to experience it.

In your initial post you mention the war. If you have a sense of humour but would also like to learn of the tactics that are employed by the dark ones in the spiritual world I would highly recommend "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis (Lion the witch and the wardrobe). Here is a link to the reading of the book by John Cleese. The Screwtape Letters (http://www.radiomickdanger.com/ListShows.php?seriesname=The%20Screwtape%20Letters )

Enjoy.

:-)
From the very high point of view it`s so fun to listen how they "plan" or "work" against people...
They are so poor in their misunderstandings of things...

But in reality we have to deal with them directly and in essence openly say "I do not believe a word you`re saying... leave me be "...

Anchor
22nd July 2010, 23:20
John,

would you choose to enlighten people ,the very people that throws rocks on you?

P.S.
this on a first glance does not have a thing with theme here but it may have :-)

Here to save me doing it ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Screwtape_Letters


Plot overview

The Screwtape Letters comprises thirty-one letters written by a senior demon named Screwtape to his nephew, a young demon named Wormwood. Screwtape's letters contain advice for how to turn Wormwood's "Patient", an ordinary man living in war-time England, toward "Our Father Below" (Devil / Satan) and away from "the Enemy" (God).

After the first letter, the Patient converts to Christianity, and Wormwood is given a severe rebuking and threatened with the "usual penalties" at the House of Correction for Incompetent Tempters. A striking contrast is formed between Wormwood and Screwtape during the rest of the book. Wormwood is depicted through Screwtape's letters as much closer to what conventional wisdom has said about demons, i.e., wanting to tempt his patient into extravagantly wicked and deplorable sins and constantly writing about the war that is going on for the latter half of the book. Screwtape, on the other hand, is not interested in getting the patient to commit anything spectacularly evil, saying that "the safest path to hell is the gradual one." He sees a demon's primary goal to befuddle, confuse, and eventually corrupt a person rather than to tempt.

Lewis's use of this "correspondence" is both varied and hard-hitting. With his own views on theology, Lewis covers areas as diverse as sex, love, pride, gluttony, and war. Lewis, an Oxford scholar himself, suggests in his work that even intellectuals are not impervious to the influence of such demons, especially in regards to being led towards placated acceptance of the "Historical Point of View".

In the last letter, it emerges that the Patient has been killed during an air raid (World War II having broken out between the fourth and fifth letters), and has gone to Heaven. Wormwood is punished for letting a soul 'slip through his fingers' by being handed over to the fate that would have awaited his patient had he been successful: the consumption of his spiritual essence by the other demons. Screwtape responds to his nephew's desperate final letter by assuring him that he may expect just as much assistance from his "increasingly and ravenously affectionate" uncle as Screwtape would expect from Wormwood were their situations reversed, paralleling a situation where Wormwood himself turned his uncle over to Satan for making a religiously positive remark that would offend him.


Or have I missed the point of your question?

Beren
23rd July 2010, 09:14
Or have I missed the point of your question?


You missed the point ;)

Screwtape letters --- I read long time ago something similar but from Lav Nikolayevich Tolstoy...
I can not remember the name of the 30 page text but it was hilarious :p and got him out of the Russian orthodox church ...
It was about how devil held a meeting with demons and questioned them how they deceive the people... Needless to say how Tolstoy wrote many truths there and thus Church immediately threw him out ever since...

But I think he does not give a damn... :pound:


Point was if you imagine yourself being heavily attacked because you were enlightening the people , how would you react?
For example, you have a friend whom you wish good . And you try subtly for years to help to be the light and finally he reject that and accuse you of his worst enemy and tries to destroy every thing that you were building together for years... how would you react?