Im questioning the idea of ownership

[jorr lundstrom]

Yes, Im questioning the idea of ownership as such. We have

been told that we walk around in our bodies. Do we? This body

I walk around in isnt my, it belongs to Gaia and will be returned

when I have no use for ir any longer. And I look at all things

that we imagine we own in the same way. I suppose we didnt have

the idea of ownership when we were hunters and gatherers. So it

seem to be an idea evolved when we began to stay at one place.

This idea of owning has caused us a lot of trouble during the

millenias, to not speak of greed ie, the idea of owning far more than

we need and can use. Im not questioning using things.

Do you think that humanity can let go of the idea of owning? Do you

think we can create a new world and still uphold the idea of owning?


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/skrflcka_p_bo_420.jpg

[Jenci]

Do you think that humanity can let go of the idea of owning? Do you

think we can create a new world and still uphold the idea of owning?




Hi Jorr,

We just need to see that we own it all. My body, your body, the planet, the universe - all of it is what I am.

Then we will stop claming one thing over another - this is separation.
Jeanette

[TWINCANS]

Jorr, didn't the original peoples here on North America live exactly that way? They had territories and disputes about those for sure, but I think they saw their tribes' land as necessary space for the health of their peoples. What they 'used' from the gifts from Mother Earth and Great Spirit they took with gratitude. I'm not romanticizing their ancient culture, but all of their old stories say that this sustainable and balanced way of life was taught to them by a being or beings of higher abilities. Maybe we are ready to learn the lesson again?

[jorr lundstrom]

Do you think that humanity can let go of the idea of owning? Do you

think we can create a new world and still uphold the idea of owning?




Hi Jorr,

We just need to see that we own it all. My body, your body, the planet, the universe - all of it is what I am.

Then we will stop claming one thing over another - this is separation.
Jeanette

I think thats just a way to describe wot Im saying from an other perspective.

And I think we could get into some weird consequenses if I stated that I own

your body. LOL I orefer to see it as all is within Gaia here and a greater creator

is behind it all. And we all are that creator and the creation, and this is the same.

This is really hard to put into words. Describing wot I really mean beats me. LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Jorr, didn't the original peoples here on North America live exactly that way? They had territories and disputes about those for sure, but I think they saw their tribes' land as necessary space for the health of their peoples. What they 'used' from the gifts from Mother Earth and Great Spirit they took with gratitude. I'm not romanticizing their ancient culture, but all of their old stories say that this sustainable and balanced way of life was taught to them by a being or beings of higher abilities. Maybe we are ready to learn the lesson again?

They did and I feel that humanty will get to similar ways of living again. LOL

[christian]

To really own something, one has to have created it from the scratch.

We are 'only' co-creators, everything we create draws upon something pre-existing.

Thus we merely lend stuff to use and/or transform it, lending stuff over an extended period of time is pretty much 'owning', but there is always the reminder that eventually it's temporary.

I'm feeling like sitting in a nutshell measuring the depth of the ocean with a stick, I'm out... :biggrin1:

[Jenci]

And I think we could get into some weird consequenses if I stated that I own

your body. LOL I orefer to see it as all is within Gaia here and a greater creator

is behind it all. And we all are that creator and the creation, and this is the same.

This is really hard to put into words. Describing wot I really mean beats me. LOL

LOL, Jorr, yes it can be tricky talking about it.

Our ownership of items and people comes from our need to create our identity as "me".
Me and my things.
The more things I own, the more sense of "me", or self, I have.

But if we can see that we are already everything.
We are all expressions of the Creator.
None of us is seperate from the Creator.
We realise our true sense of self.
Then the need to own and possess things to create our sense of self (the "me") is no longer needed.

Jeanette

[shamanseeker]

Do you think that humanity can let go of the idea of owning? Do you

think we can create a new world and still uphold the idea of owning?




Hi Jorr,

We just need to see that we own it all. My body, your body, the planet, the universe - all of it is what I am.

Then we will stop claming one thing over another - this is separation.
Jeanette

I think thats just a way to describe wot Im saying from an other perspective.

And I think we could get into some weird consequenses if I stated that I own

your body. LOL I orefer to see it as all is within Gaia here and a greater creator

is behind it all. And we all are that creator and the creation, and this is the same.

This is really hard to put into words. Describing wot I really mean beats me. LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Jorr, didn't the original peoples here on North America live exactly that way? They had territories and disputes about those for sure, but I think they saw their tribes' land as necessary space for the health of their peoples. What they 'used' from the gifts from Mother Earth and Great Spirit they took with gratitude. I'm not romanticizing their ancient culture, but all of their old stories say that this sustainable and balanced way of life was taught to them by a being or beings of higher abilities. Maybe we are ready to learn the lesson again?

They did and I feel that humanty will get to similar ways of living again. LOL


Thank you, everyone for your thoughts here. So true! I recalled a life once in which I was a young native American woman and I felt just what you are all talking about. I loved that life: was so very happy and at one with nature! And like you, Jorr, can't wait till things return to the way they were :)

[Tony]

I will have to take the opposite view...is that allowed?

Everything created is a temporary phenomena, hence an illusion of reality.
Our true essence is beyond all impermanent creations.
Everything is the play of a consciousness that does not know its true nature, called ignorance.

Suffering is caused by maintaining to claim to be the creator, it has to be constantly defended.

[christian]

I think the definition of owning virtually boils down to "deciding if or how something is being used", for obviously one cannot carry around all stuff that is allegedly owned.

Regarding this, ownership is closely related to responsibility and I'm all for being responsible in a wise way.

[shamanseeker]

I think the definition of owning virtually boils down to "deciding if or how something is being used", for obviously one cannot carry around all stuff that is allegedly owned.

Regarding this, ownership is closely related to responsibility and I'm all for being responsible in a wise way.


Maybe, we should think of ourselves as temporary guardians of the Earth rather than owners???

[music]

Well, look at the mess the concept of ownership has delivered to us!

[Elixer]

I'd been meaning to comment on this thread because it instantly reminded me of 'The Illuminatus! Trilogy' by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea. They use the word 'property', but it's the same thing as 'ownership', really. From page 92:


"Property is liberty," Hagbard said. "I am quoting the same man who said
Property is theft. He also said
Property is impossible."


Maybe you could add: Property is slavery.

This great book, a must-read for any truth-seeker...is available for free from here: The Illuminatus! Trilogy (http://dc205.4shared.com/download/D8wTQwiL/robert_anton_wilson__robert_sh.zip?tsid=20111217-211553-cd0a1898) btw.

Also, it seems especially relevant with this economic crisis situation, and now this potential for there to be lots and lots of gold, as well as the Occupy movements that go towards questioning capitalism.

I think this is potentially a very interesting discussion, since 'ownership' may indeed have been part of the initial corruption of mankind, part of the Antichrist system.

[Heyoka_11]

Do you think that humanity can let go of the idea of owning? Do you think we can create a new world and still uphold the idea of owning?

G'day jorr,

For my own part, I have been slowly ridding myself of the concept of ownership for many years now, and with great benefit. I see the concept of ownership as being ego based, in a world where the best we can claim is temporary possession / stewardship / guardianship; call it what you will. I have attempted to minimise the use of the word 'my' as a descriptor for objects outside of myself; as in 'my house', 'my car', 'my spouse', 'my footbal team', 'my' whatever. This game of semantics has been of great assistance, as, for me, it reinforces the temorary nature of life itself, and the futility of any attempt to attach a sense of permanence to the experience, especially through excessive material gain.

Does this mean that I shun possession? Absolutely not. I have an abundance of 'things', perhaps too much for my own good, to the point that these things have become somewhat burdensome.

I often think back to the time in my life when I had absolutely nothing. That was the time when I had nothing to lose, and there is much to be said for living one's entire life in such a state, or at least in that state of mind. Perhaps this is due to the pereived need to protect that which we feel we own, and the overwhemling sense of loss we would suffer, should we find ouselves suddenly without.

It is a Buddhist concept that the source of all suffering is attachment, and there is no easier way to attach ourselves to that which lies outside of ourselves, than to claim ownership of it.

Sunday morning, and still waking up :lazy2:..........addled thought! Did that make any sense? :lol:

OFtNChII78k

[jack]

We are nothing more then caretakers of the land on which we reside - Something my father always says.