Why is privacy important?

[Ilie Pandia]

Let my start by saying that this is a very serious question and I plan to collect the answers.

I did not see this discussed on Avalon (there are few threads about privacy problems but not why is it important).

I hope this thread will grow into an informative discussion that will raise awareness about privacy issues, why is it important and what can we do about it.

So why is privacy important? Why not share everything about yourself publicly?

[norman]

Because it's the basis of individual sovereignty, as opposed to the hive life.

[RMorgan]

Good thread Ilie.

For me privacy is important, because I have the right to choose which parts of my life I want to share, and with which people I want to share such information.

Of course, with the internet, you have to be smart about where you hold your info. If you have something you´d like to keep in secret, keep it away from gadgets connected to the internet.

Cheers,

Raf.

[DouglasDanger]

Yes, it is important to have your own space, place, to be alone with your thoughts. You cannot discover/realize/come to grips/ explore yourself with out privacy because your constantly bombarded with "others opinions". Alot of people freely express how they think you are suposed to live your life privacy gives you the opportunity to decide for yourself by yourself with yourself.. :)

[Amenjo]

Privacy is important because you are your own sovereign, and what you decide to share of yourself, is your gift to others.
If you decide not to share something of yourself, you shouldn't be judged for it. That is your choice. No one knows yourself better than you do.

Love and Truth,

Amenjo

[Limor Wolf]

Hello Ilie,and thanks for rasing this question.Being a privet person myself I do not possess an answer to your question,why it is actually important to keep some things privet?
I do know it is not about hiding anything,I think that it might do with leaving a space for myself in this very unreasonable world,or simply avoiding over exposure and listening to advices that I did not ask for.
If we are talking about privecy in general,than we know full well that our privet details known to some factors can be used against us.
In good hands,with good minds and hearts,I would not care much about giving up my privecy,but something in me tells me that to keep myself an island of peace and quiet is not such a bad thing nowdays,in our region of the worlds :-)
However,we have no real privecy anyway,when our mind and our behaviour can be searched and be very much open for those who does not inhabit this earth,or this dimension.

I am curious,how would you answer your own question,and what are other members thoughts about it.
"Why is privecy important?"

Why indeed..?

[Anchor]

In a metaphysical sense the idea of privacy is really funny.

I mean at some point when we find our-self telepathic and members of the ultimate community, a "group soul", the idea of privacy could be seen as a disease.

However, we currently live in a heavy density, where the machinations of controlling people have constructed features within our society which mean that one has to play a careful game in order to achieve ones objectives without social problems like: loosing ones job, being outcast etc.

For some, and I include myself in that, it is important to keep some things private.

That said, my need for privacy is not motivated by shame or fear.

On another level: I would be happy to walk naked in the streets, if it were not for that fact that others certainly would not be - for all sorts of reasons :)

[Strat]

Let my start by saying that this is a very serious question and I plan to collect the answers.

I did not see this discussed on Avalon (there are few threads about privacy problems but not why is it important).

I hope this thread will grow into an informative discussion that will raise awareness about privacy issues, why is it important and what can we do about it.

So why is privacy important? Why not share everything about yourself publicly?

I've haven't really considered this before, so my answer is off the top of my head.

Privacy in what regards?

Do you mean my name, profile pic, home address? I'll freely post a pic of me, I just find internet avatars to be a fun novelty. When it comes to my name, I am a bit protective but not paranoid. The fact of the matter is my screen name will be exposed to lots of people who I don't know. I love Avalon, but all internet forums occasionally get a nutjob/troll. I don't want some jerk looking me up and causing me trouble. I'm good at dealing with lunatics, but why risk the hassle?

Obviously, same goes with giving out my address. I don't mind if you know my general location (Jacksonville, FL) but I won't tell you my street address.

If one were to say that I'm being overly cautious, I'd say why do you want these things from me?

[spiritguide]

Each one of us has our own reason or desire for privacy. My realization is that everything about my personage is open and free for the taking. I have no fears about my life or how others would use that information. The flames of any fire directed at me will be quenched by my soul existance.

[ThePythonicCow]

I'm more concerned with whether one or a few institutions know too much about too many of us, collectively.

Individually, I'm not that concerned with privacy violations, and I am able to maintain easily enough what privacy I seek. My information managing talents are strong, and I'm not a "high value target" for The Bastards in Power (TBiP.)

But we as a vast majority of humans are more easily controlled by a few because the few have a massive information advantage over us collectively. We know little of who they are, what they do, or what they intend. They have massive amounts of data on us, in many ways. Occasionally that data is used to target one of us who gets too high a profile in their view. But more importantly, in my view, that data is used to control the population of humans on this planet.

Information is power; an information imbalance is a power imbalance; far too much power and information lies in the hands of a few; far too much of our past, our future, our knowledge, our awareness is kept from the rest of us.

A key purpose of this forum, and a key benefit of this forum to myself, is the sharing of some of that hidden knowledge, which is one key way we can redress the information imbalance.

[Tony]

Privacy in a forum is not really possible, but it is important to respect others territory.
Sometimes when having a conversation with another, what is said just applies to that particular person only.
On a thread this cannot be controlled, and if a third person is not in tune with the thread, they can gets the wrong end of the stick, and that leads to problems.

If we are taking about privacy in life, then if one does not conform, then it is very important. Again people get the wrong end of the stick!

In practice, most people are not interested in others private lives...only their own. So in practice nobody really cares!

Tony

[Davidallany]

Hi Illie,
In my personal experience, revealing personal information in all of its forms, depends either on trust, or on necessity need to know.

[Limor Wolf]

Interesting to see how each of our responses here is giving a different angle on privecy according to our different perceptions of it..

What was the poet's intention? we will need to hear it from Ilie ,when he will wake up from his hopefully good night sleep.

[Kristin]

My answer to this question is none of your business. ;)
From the Heart,
Wormhole

[norman]

I'm more concerned with whether one or a few institutions know too much about too many of us, collectively.



A very hot point Paul, and probably deserves a thread of it's own.

You've put your finger on the whole dynamic of the privacy issue with this. We are many and they are few. Our privacy is worth so much more to them than their privacy is worth to us ( as long as it is them with the technological advantage ). It's a complete reversal of the situation on the ground face to face. That's why they want to keep it like this as long as possible.

However, even though there are 'groups' who claim to be cyber warriors sticking up for us ( HAHAAA ) and as far as i can tell, so far, none of them are any such thing, there IS a twist to the technological voyeuristic balance that's not as it seems on the surface.

Check out what David Wilcock says about quantum interfacing with computers. That's one angle that's active. Another line of progress is good old hackmanship that's still going very strong.

It's one thing to know that tbtb are snooping, It's another thing altogether to know, by their own fingerprints, what they are most interested in. That tells us a hell of a lot about what they are up to. That's snooping back at them! Not for the feint hearted but it's doable.


Voyerism, is the flip side of this privacy thing, yea?

Perhaps it's a perversion to be voyeristic. Some of us are keen Voyers. I'll bet most Avalon members are so. How many here didn't come because they were interested in the other people's secrets. not many, I'd guess. A secret is a secret, whether you are a good guy or a bad guy. Guessing what someone's secrets are is only guessing. Knowing what someone's secrets are is, effectively, voyerism.

That sound's like a good case for not having secrets at all, but I absolutely insist that secrets are held by all sovereign individuals as a place holder, at least. We don't have to fill that place holder with anything in particular but it's a basis for privacy, and that's vital, in my opinion.

Others want to take that privacy away from us all the time because they can't stand secrets. Why can't they stand secrets? It's a condition that comes with being in this cogitively decapitated society that knows it's being decieved all the time. This state of affairs feeds the ripping away of all our privacy in a rediculously inverted logic that may or may not be a deliberate plan by the bad guys.

I want privacy to defend myself until the world convinces me I don't need to any longer. Until the world is sorted out, we are in a sort of military scenario that logic tells us not to give up out secrets. That's our privacy.

Anchor had a little chuckle earier about it. I quite GET what he means but we're not there yet.

[alienHunter]

Let my start by saying that this is a very serious question and I plan to collect the answers.

I did not see this discussed on Avalon (there are few threads about privacy problems but not why is it important).

I hope this thread will grow into an informative discussion that will raise awareness about privacy issues, why is it important and what can we do about it.

So why is privacy important? Why not share everything about yourself publicly?

the best reason to be concerned about privacy was the proffer of a left wing blogger on another site who/m was obsessed with the evil Barack Obama.

I suggested that Obama was a good guy and we had nothing to worry about. He suggested that he didn't agree but even if true, what about the next President who might not be so benelovent in his/her goals. In terms of my personal sovereignty (I've never felt that I had it) I could care less what the government does, but I do worry about those individuals that are in much more dire need of privacy protection than i.

[G.A]

Priority for me is protecting my family and those close/connected to me. If I was a hermit, I'd have no interest in privacy. But the world we live in is what it is, and I feel its my obligation to keep my loved ones out of harms way.

[Sidney]

Its important because in our world, anybody anywhere can hold anything you say against you. ESPECIALLY when the topic of dsicussion are as controversial as the ones here.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Those who would control us, the control freaks, find value in cataloging our every activity, profiling us all to determine who is an obstacle to their agenda.

If it were not for that, privacy would be of little importance to me. At sometime, hopefully in the near future, there will be no secrets.

[cheez_2806]

it is important to me in the way where I don't want people too know all about me, it makes me feel unsafe and uncomfortable.
I fear - after they know all about me, they won't see the me the same again, I fear because the very same thing about yourself can be used against you one day...I onced believed everyone needs privacy and everyone has privacy
but now, I still wonder whether there is such thing as privacy really...

[Ivanhoe]

I am a private person when I'm off the forum.
I see no need to provide personal information about myself other than what I've provided in my profile or to the mods.
I provide my thoughts and feelings when I feel it's appropriate.
I am a personable guy (I'm a bartender, duh!) but I keep council with only a handful of friends that I trust.
It's because of childhood drama/truama, trust issues I suppose. LOL
Love ya:kiss:

[58andfixed]

Here are some reasons:

1. Big Government and Corporations have used personal information to blackmail, coerce and attack individuals. J Edgar Hoover (http://edgar-hoover.tripod.com/) did it, and I doubt others wouldn't abuse private information.

2. Governments around the Globe are shifting towards a monitored state, and who know where it will stop? How bad will it get before citizens stop this attitude? One reference point is the "White Rose Society" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose_Society) during NAZI Germany, for voicing opposition to losing personal freedom of expression.

3. Because MSM media are so spineless in their function of being the fifth estate, it is up to leading citizens to point out the issues and events that those in power would prefer to quash, and these key persons are exposed to assassination. I'm sure PA member can punch in "missing scientists" or "dead whistle-blowers" to gain a taste of this issue.

Fortunately we have a growing list of alternative media (http://www.world-newspapers.com/alternative-news.html)to source.

4. Herd mentality. PC. People are so engineered to behave as a wave, in contradistinction to challenging authority, that people who question these 'points of contrived sources of truth,' are exposed to ridicule and marginalization. UFOs are the obvious genre for multiple sources of examples. Anonymity are one of the few remaining walls of protection to voice a perspective or experience, and avoid being ostracized for not 'fitting in' or 'going along to get along.' There is a 'transition zone' that some of the more active and aware can bring necessary perspectives to those that have yet to peek at the easily deniable and preferably avoidable ugly realities.

I'm surprised, even slightly shocked, at the dearth of familiarity with these issues so far.

- 58

[Rantaak]

Privacy is the notion that only what we choose to share is known to others. The violation of this personal boundary can be embarrassing to some, and a call for assassination to others, generally depending on how fearful they are.

Things like the "Patriot Act" are clearly unconstitutional, and yet the government has been using this to legally molest innocent american citizens.

Same goes for the whole TSA thing. Except that's literal molestation.

Privacy is only one of the first things to go in the gradual degradation of our legal rights as human beings.

My view has always been that, "I don't need a god d*mn piece of paper to tell me what my rights are. I am a conscious being." I do what I do, daring to speak freely because that is what I am compelled to do. No moral call, no fear. If I tiptoe around carefully, taking delicate care not to say anything that might offend someone or if I try to conform to other people's standards (legal and moral), then I'm wasting my energy. I don't like to waste energy.

Maybe they want us to waste our energy? Maybe they don't care? Maybe they think we won't wake up? I don't really care what they might think. Who would want to lock little old me up? I'm just a musician...

[Dawn]

I agree with everything 58andfixed said above. I'd also like to add some additional thoughts. The PTB have shown themselves to be evil in many ways. The lust for power seems to have corrupted them severely. Knowledge is power. Knowing where everyone is, what they are doing, saying, or believing is a road to more control and power. Based on past and current actions there is no reason to believe that the PTB are benign or that they would not use the above information to their advantage.

As they attempt to control the masses, they are likely expecting rebellion. Having ever more information about each and every one in the population would allow them to have more control over us all. I expect the PTB to continue to display the same behavior they have in the past... and that does not cause me to feel safe.

I do not have secrets from my closest friends, and I have no need to prevent them knowing where I live and what I am doing these days. Allowing Homeland Security to know where I sleep at night is an entirely different matter.

There is another kind of privacy, and that is the ability to spend time alone. This is also very important to me. I use times like this to balance myself and clear my mind. Very important!

I do not let anyone know where I sleep. In fact I do not even know the address (so I could not even tell someone if they asked).

[Enquiring1]

it is important to me in the way where I don't want people too know all about me, it makes me feel unsafe and uncomfortable.
I fear - after they know all about me, they won't see the me the same again, I fear because the very same thing about yourself can be used against you one day...I onced believed everyone needs privacy and everyone has privacy
but now, I still wonder whether there is such thing as privacy really...

Hi cheez, Thanks for your totally honest reply.

I relate to what you are saying and I think that what you are saying is a part of "being human now"

I find that my private thing is there is not one me but lots of me's that I present to different people.

There is the me that I present to my Parents, there is the me that I present to my old mates from way back, there is the me that I present to my work mates, there is the me that I present to strangers (and thats when the filter of who I present is on red alert!).

There are all these different me's and they are a front which I hide behind.

To be honest with you, the "I" that is doing the hiding behind all these different me's is a little bit hazy because I dont think I have met myself yet!

My conclusion is, privacy is a result of fear.

However as people have discussed there is also a practical necessity for privacy.

[Anchor]

My conclusion is, privacy is a result of fear.

However as people have discussed there is also a practical necessity for privacy.

Yes there are two reasons for it: fear is one, wisdom is the other - but only because our current odd circumstances have created a situation that requires it.

[Tarka the Duck]

From a purely pragmatic point of view, I really really really really object to having emails/letters/texts targetting me, and purportedly "offering me the opportunity" to buy something based in the information they say they have acquired about me from what they think have discover about my interests.

How dare they??!!
If I need something, I go and buy it (within reason!).
I really really really really don't appreciate a vast marketing machine grinding into action in the belief that I will fall for their irresistible charms and be tempted into buying some new double glazing just because I was browsing a site about energy conservation.

Kathie

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello,

Thank you for all your replies. My opening post was intentionally general because I wanted to see this "privacy concern" from many different angles. I have my own thoughts about this that I will share bellow.

The main reason I've started this thread was to clarify this for myself so I will be able to show the potential dangers to others.

The following text will relate to privacy on the Internet: how much about you is publicly known (or can be dug up using the Internet).

I sometimes try to warn friends and people I know about possible privacy issues. It bothers me that they so readily accept blatant privacy violation in the online environment and sometimes even offline.

What I hear most often is something like this:

1. "You're afraid of this because you have something to hide" (or rephrased "I have nothing to hide so I don't worry about privacy issues" )

2. "Private data is collected only by the government, so is not publicly available and this surveillance helps to keep us safe!"


Let's take the first one: "I have nothing to hide so I don't worry about privacy issues"


I understand why some would like to have a "public profile" and share things on the net, like favorite books, movies, foods, pictures from recent trips, plans for the future and your point of view on different matters. The main driving force behind this, is finding like minded people and communities. Others use this as a marketing tool for their web-sites and products.

But, how much of this so called "public profile" is linked to you as a "real person"? If you have nothing to hide would you publicly post the following information?

- real name
- social security number (or your personal identification number in other countries)
- your physical address
- your phone numbers and emails
- your travel schedule
- your health record
- your sexual preferences
- your love letters
- pictures with your children
- not so "pretty" pictures of yourself ("candid camera")
- your political views
- your religious views
- your monthly income and source of that income
- your PayPal password
- your emails
- and so on...

Almost all of the information above can be found today if someone is motivated enough, exactly because your are not concerned with your privacy! Your "public profile" is tracked and linked with your activities, location, travel plans, pictures (see the new face tagging in Google Picasa and Facebook) online purchases and so on. Sure, one piece of info cannot identify you, but this continuous tracking can generate such a complete "profile of you" that you can be easily identified. This model can get so accurate as to predict what you might do next. Each company will say: "The data we collect on you cannot identify you as a person". That may be true, but they fail to mention that linking together such data with many other companies a complete profile can be created.

If you still don't worry about privacy, consider the danger of impersonation.

Someone, with enough motivation and modest technical skills, can gather enough information about you to pose "as you" in the online environment. The main reason for that is to be able to reset your passwords and access private data (that usually relates to money). So online identity theft is a real concern. Remember that behind each "company name" are humans just like you, and those humans have their own weaknesses, desires and motivations. Cases of "the angry employee" publishing private data are well known by now...


Now let's have a look at: "Private data is collected only by the government, so is not publicly available and this surveillance helps to keep us safe!"


I understand that this is what we are being told, but there are some hidden dangers. "The Government" is in fact a group of people, and those people do have their own private agendas. If you make the assumption they will use the data only to protect you and your country, you may be very wrong. They have fiends and friends of friends that may ask them "to look someone up!". They may be linked to a private corporation that need the profile data to know how to best push a product so that many people will buy it.

However, we here know that the biggest problem is that "the government" may use this data to label a "terrorist" anybody that has any ideas to change the power structure. I submit to you that "the government" is using this data not to protect you or your county but to protect itself against any action that you may want to take to change that government or to convince the government to change its actions.

As some of you already wrote above, this data collection gives them a huge advantage against you, should you ever find yourself "against the government". I know that some forum visitors reading this thread will ask themselves "who in their right mind would be against the government?! the government is here to serve us, right?". To those I say: turn off the TV and have a look around you for a couple of days.


So why is privacy important?


Unfortunately, in today's world the main need for privacy is driven by fear. By the need to protect yourself and to be a sovereign being. If you don't care about this, you will most likely loose it and when you will realize you need it, it will be too late. I agree that from a metaphysical point of view "privacy" may have a different meaning (or no meaning at all). For those that are very aware of their true nature and connection to Source this thread may be extremely boring, but for the rest I think making sure our privacy is respected is very important in this 3D reality.

[araucaria]

To take the simplest example – a couple – privacy is the bonding principle that holds them together and creates an event horizon around them. A couple is defined by what goes on between them alone. They will seek and find this private space even in the most unpromising circumstances.

This does not stop them from functioning in society both separately and as a unit. On the contrary, they form a major building block of that society. So what goes for a couple also applies to larger groups – families, communities of all kinds.

So privacy can been seen as the exclusion aspect of an inclusion/exclusion mechanism. Paradoxically, inclusion cannot work without it. A sense of belonging to something means defining that something as opposed to everything else. A sense of belonging to Everything means defining that Everything as including all those somethings.

Hence the couple is not the simplest example at all. The fundamental sense of belonging is to oneself, seen as a multiplicity and at the same time Me as opposed to You and as part of Us.

[The One]

I understand that this is what we are being told, but there are some hidden dangers. "The Government" is in fact a group of people, and those people do have their own private agendas. If you make the assumption they will use the data only to protect you and your country, you may be very wrong. They have fiends and friends of friends that may ask them "to look someone up!". They may be linked to a private corporation that need the profile data to know how to best push a product so that many people will buy it

Spot on having worked for several government departments when information is shared they try to say we are sharing best practice mmmmmmmmmm for who

[Limor Wolf]

I very much agree with the above Ilie wrote.our society is going through a real test situation right now,a one that will determine the direction of wich it will lead,meaning -a threat to loss of freedom and being under constant control.we should not have it.no reason to
what type of world it will be? Not one that worth living in.It seem like the controlling forces need a rescue from themselves,and we need to vote - NO! stop right there,and let our actions and our non-participation be the last word.
I dare say,this is the most important crossroad of our lives !

I opened this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31509-An-Orweliian-state-imposing-its-will-or-our-chance-to-say-NO-The-new-Biometric-Law) lately with similiar and relevent concenrs - it is all happening right now where I live,and it spreads in a very fast tempo:

Here is a lighter side of how our life would look (in potential,not an option for me) when all our personal details are stored in a database computure.(again,the lighter side,there are much more horifying scenarios than this):


Please press here

ORDERING PIZZA (http://www.aclu.org/ordering-pizza)

[wolf_rt]

I really only look on privacy in a 'path of least resistance' kind of way.

I don't go around broadcasting information about myself that may cause difficulties or inconvenience for me.
If you ask i will tell you though, as long as it isn't a matter of trust between myself and another.

In a broader (data collection) way i feel much the same... I really don't care what anybody knows about me, but i do care that people want to step on my free will.

also this data collection does not mesh with the current abundance of stupid laws.
a whole lot of stupid laws don't really hurt if everyone ignores them... but when the computers that are tracking everyone, start to tick boxes next to all the crimes you have committed, suddenly there is a big problem. Everybody is suddenly a criminal.
This is why i am against data collection/tracking.

[Ilie Pandia]

I very much agree with the above Ilie wrote.our society is going through a real test situation right now,a one that will determine the direction of wich it will lead,meaning -a threat to loss of freedom and being under constant control.we should not have it.no reason to
what type of world it will be? Not one thas worth to live in.It seem like the controlling forces need a rescue from themselves,and we need to vote - NO! stop right there,and let our actions and our non-participation be the last word.
I dare say,this is the most important crossroad of our lives !

I opened this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?31509-An-Orweliian-state-imposing-its-will-or-our-chance-to-say-NO-The-new-Biometric-Law) lately with similiar and relevent concenrs - it is all happening right now where I live,and it spreads in a very fast tempo:

Here is a lighter side of how our life would look (in potential,not an option for me) when all our personal details are stored in a database computure.(again,the lighter side,there are much more horifying scenarios than this):

ORDERING PIZZA (http://www.aclu.org/ordering-pizza) <-- CLICK TO WATCH

Wow, thanks Limor!

That pizza thing IS NOT in the future! I got a very similar experience try to get a taxi to show up. And Google is sure way beyond that video. (Oh and Facebook too!)

[NeverMind]

So why is privacy important?


Good question.

It isn't.

Yes, that is right.
Not a typo. :)

But it is intentionally a little misleading (you know, nothing like shock value to get people to listen, and all that :-)).


Why not share everything about yourself publicly?

The key question is, what is this EVERYTHING that you mention. Because some things - many things, depending on the person -- are sacred, and those should be kept secret.
(Ha, I can't believe I only now noticed the convenient similarity between these two terms. :))

By "secret" I mean, not talk about them. AT ALL.
People don't share such things even with their friends -- I don't -- and often such things even escape words, so they cannot be shared.
It is not a coincidence that these things are the most precious of all our "data" and possessions.

If by "everything" you mean all sorts of data, including browsing habits and such, then the real issue, to my mind, is what can anyone, including governments, do about it.

If nobody can do anything (harmful in any way to you) about it, then all you are left are personal feelings of "exposure", for which others are not to blame. After all, what do you care about what someone may or may not think about you?
And whatever you do think about their thinking about you, it's your problem, your issue -- not theirs.

So, in principle, privacy in such things IS irrelevant and one should not be overly concerned with it.
In practice.... it may be a different issue.
Which is why it is important to ensure not so much that no-one gets to know anything about you --- but that they cannot do anything about it.
(except indulge in unhealthy curiosity, perhaps -- but again, that should not be your problem).


P.S. There is another, psychologically and socially valuable aspect to "privacy", though -- a strategic value.
The fact is, you are far more likely to succeed in manipulating people, for good or for bad, if they know as little as possible about you.
It's human nature, and t's senseless to deny it.
Familiarity really does tend to breed "contempt".... even though that "contempt", more often than not, is a reflection of the person harbouring such feelings. :)

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello NeverMind,

The kind of privacy you are talking about was not included in my initial post, but is indeed a "privacy concern".

So, my main goal here was to warn people about their "online privacy" and the dangers they expose themselves to if they "don't care about it".

Now back to your reply.

I think I understand what you mean and is a bit of a paradox... Let's take me for example :)

I use my real name, picture, location and so on, here on this forum and elsewhere on the web. I do this fully aware of the privacy concerns, so is a conscious decision that I make. Telling my name and showing my face here, is my way of making a statement that I stand strongly behind my words. What I try to say, share and do is important enough for me to do it in "broad daylight", not behind an Avatar or nickname.

That being said I am also a very private person and I have stuff that I want to keep to myself, because I believe I can be harmed if such information were to become publicly available. I mostly protect the identity of others related to me that don't want their names made public (for their own reasons), I obviously keep secret the keys to access the Avalon Server and I need to keep to myself any data that may allow someone to impersonate me and compromise the security and privacy of systems that I am in charge of.

This privacy is not because of a feeling of "being exposed", but rather protecting data that can be used against you.



The key question is, what is this EVERYTHING that you mention. Because some things - many things, depending on the person -- are sacred, and those should be kept secret.
(Ha, I can't believe I only now noticed the convenient similarity between these two terms. )

By "secret" I mean, not talk about them. AT ALL.
People don't share such things even with their friends -- I don't -- and often such things even escape words, so they cannot be shared.
It is not a coincidence that these things are the most precious of all our "data" and possessions.


I cannot relate to this. I do not believe that what is sacred must be kept secret. Rather the other way around. It seems to me that too much "non-sacred" stuff is being talked about everywhere these days. But you may be talking about something that I do not comprehend.



If by "everything" you mean all sorts of data, including browsing habits and such, then the real issue, to my mind, is what can anyone, including governments, do about it.


One thing to do is at least be aware this is an issue and don't blindly comply. Demand that the software you use has a privacy policy and make sure they keep to it! Do take the time to at least look at the privacy settings. How many Avalon members even know where the privacy settings for their profile can be setup?



The fact is, you are far more likely to succeed in manipulating people, for good or for bad, if they know as little as possible about you.
It's human nature, and t's senseless to deny it.


Yes, that seems to be true. I try to disarm myself in this regard and be honest and open with my friends. If they conclude they don't like me anymore after the "honesty moments", then we are all better of on our separate ways, and that is fine. (I'm still working on this, but I am making progress).

There probably is an inner part in each one of us that is private by its nature. (May be the sacred part that you're talking about). But if "we are all One", that private part may actually be the connection point to everyone else.

And I'd also like to touch on "private time".

Yes, I believe that is important. I want to be able to have my private time whenever I need it! That is to be alone with me thoughts and inner processes. But the constant erosion of privacy, the general surveillance of everyone will make this more and more difficult to have. In a police state, someone may, at any time, break your door for no other reason but the suspicion you are having "terrorist thoughts". So privacy is also important in this regard. Even if we are all One, we still need to be allowed to be individuals.

As I've said previously, if you don't care about your privacy, you will lose it.

[13th Warrior]

I don't know if this has been touched on?

Your information is being sold; are you getting a cut?

[Ilie Pandia]

I don't know if this has been touched on?

Your information is being sold; are you getting a cut?

You are not getting a cut, because you agree with sharing this information freely, even if the agreement is rather sneaky and it's based on you not paying attention. And they always say: "we are selling trend data, market studies, charts and numbers". Before the powerful computers era, it would have been near impossible to track one person down from this data. But today, the tracking is so complex, and so much data is being collected that keeping track of one person is not that difficult anymore.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

By the way... Gmail reads your email. But they say "That's OK... because we read everybody's email so.. we don't really know which one is yours..."

[13th Warrior]

I don't know if this has been touched on?

Your information is being sold; are you getting a cut?

You are not getting a cut, because you agree with sharing this information freely, even if the agreement is rather sneaky and it's based on you not paying attention. And they always say: "we are selling trend data, market studies, charts and numbers". Before the powerful computers era, it would have been near impossible to track one person down from this data. But today, the tracking is so complex, and so much data is being collected that keeping track of one person is not that difficult anymore.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

By the way... Gmail reads your email. But they say "That's OK... because we read everybody's email so.. we don't really know which one is yours..."

Hi Ilie,

Mine was a rhetorical question.

I wanted people to know that they/their information is being sold for profit; you are essentially being "pimped out" and that in it's self should be reason enough for privacy protection.

[CeltMan]

It is a personal decision....IMO

Having said that, taking two examples, the WWW, and this forum.

Re WWW: I do Not chose to belong to any of the social network sites. I can see no benefit of sharing my personal details with the 'world & his brother'.
I did have a moment of hesitation a few months ago, when I was asked to join one, and that my pal was also a pal of Matt Damon, an actor I particulalry admire.

Re Avalon: I thought about how much info to share in my bio, either-nill/nada, as many chose to do,..or enough so that people can see 'who I am, where I am coming from, etc'
Bearing in mind 'the intent/modus operandi of this forum', is what dictated my decision.
It was/is a matter of trust.

[Camilo]

Security & sovereingty come to mind.

[NeverMind]

Thank you for such an exhaustive reply (and I wasn't even expecting one).

You understand, of course, that we were - well, I was :) - talking in terms of principles.
I also find it profitable - and not just for myself - to act as a devils' advocate, from time to time.

But this wasn't one of those times.

I really do believe that the best one can do for oneself is to annihilate, utterly and completely, the desire to comply and to court other people's attention - their "good graces" - even by negation and seeming opposition. In other words, to care what anyone thinks of you. (And they don't know you anyway, BTW.)

[QUOTE]I cannot relate to this. I do not believe that what is sacred must be kept secret. Rather the other way around. It seems to me that too much "non-sacred" stuff is being talked about everywhere these days. But you may be talking about something that I do not comprehend.

When I say "secret", I mean labelled as such -- felt as such -- by one's own mind and soul.
There are experiences and insights that transcend the word, even the most articulate, or poetic, word - by far - and any attempt to express them by verbal means should be avoided. It is an inner imperative, and it must be obeyed.

But I do understand that perhaps not everyone has the same sort of inner "policing".
After all, we really ARE individual universes. (I don't mean this as a metaphor, I mean it quite literally.)


have stuff that I want to keep to myself, because I believe I can be harmed if such information were to become publicly available.

Of course. That was I was talking about. If the system in which you - or anyone, obviously - live makes possible any sort of abuse of such information, such a system should be targeted in order to improve it.
The catch is, no remedy would work, certainly not long-term, until people liberate themselves from the fear of other people's opinion.
But at least the legal infrastructure -- including the murky waters of public morality (where the media reign supreme and lead by example) -- could be reinforced to serve this purpose.

I was going to add a lot of more, but I can't. Not now. I am too tired - haven't slept for a week - and while that often stimulates my mind, today I seem to be at odds with words. :)

So, I may come back and add and edit and do better to explain myself.
Or maybe just strike-out the entire thing. :-)

Still... it does make for an interesting conversation, doesn't it? :-)

[Turcurulin]

In our society-at-large, privacy can seem very important. It can keep one from being alienated. It can keep one from having their 'identity' stolen. But, ultimately, privacy is a construct of external programming. In our very essence, and at our very cores, we are all the same. We have the same, generally, physical and emotional make-ups. But more than this, we have the same, again generally, life experiences. The idea of privacy only really serves to keep our consciousnesses separated. If we were all endowed with telepathy tomorrow, the concept of privacy would practically cease to exist. I can't help but think how much better off we'd all be if those with absolute truth and true knowledge, keeping it private, would cease to participate in this concept.

Privacy, in this sense, should not be confused with personal power/sovereignty, which can be displayed quite publicly.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hm,

I am not really too concerned that someone will get to see photos of me naked. I am pretty sure I look quite similar to other human males on this planet. I am not worried (too much) with what others think of myself. This is really not what this thread is about :biggrin:

The problem here is that, due to our lack of care or awareness, we surrender our rights to a handful of enforcers that know everything about you, while you know nothing about them. It's OK for them to spy on you, but you'll go to jail if you try to spy on them.

Not only that, but the "surveillance data" can be hacked and accessed by a third party. (It is actually simply sold to a third party, but that's a different story).

If you really don't care about privacy, I challenge you to post some of the information I wrote about here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36735-Why-is-privacy-important&p=379630&viewfull=1#post379630).

As for the telepathy thing, I am all for it! Yes, it would mean that I will no longer get to keep any secrets, but it will also mean that the "men in black" will have to come clean too! I theorize that telepathy is actively suppressed no to help us get along, but to help them fool us and lie to us all the time.

[Davidallany]

Illie,
Romanians are very well known to have stunning looks, so you have nothing that you need to keep secret. Dude you look like a model for crying out loud.

[CeltMan]

Most readers here no doubt are aware of 'key word recognition.'
This exists with regard to both internet and all phone systems.

I am sure however, that in the world at large, most people are Not aware of KWR.
And equally sure, that many people are 'tagged' and are totally unaware of that fact.

I was informed on good authority, about 15 years ago, that phone conversations were regularly tapped into, on a random basis,... as long ago as 15 years prior to that time. That is 30 years ago, before they had such sophisticated equipment as now exists.

We mostly expect, that in certain circumstances, that our movemnts are tagged: e.g. using our passports to travel abroad, (especially the new biometric ones)

[NeverMind]

I am not worried (too much) with what others think of myself. This is really not what this thread is about

Oh, but it is. :)
Privacy has everything to do with the power bestowed on public opinion.

I knew a person whose telephone was tapped and who was even followed for a while.
This person did not do anything illegal -- not according to the laws of a modern constitutional society -- so nobody could arrest him/her.
The only thing thy could do -- and tried to do -- was to blackmail this person.

But blackmail only works if public opinion has some sort of hold over the person being blackmailed.

Which is why in this case it didn't work
The person had enough sang froid to counter the "pressure" -- which was, in effect, no more than dirty looks and even dirtier words (public and private) from all sorts of people, none of whom meant anything to this person.

Problem solved. :)

[Ilie Pandia]

@Nevermind,

If the computer would have tapped and money stolen from say a PayPal account, I am pretty sure the "sang froid" would not have helped. But I get your point, I really do... however you don't seem to get mine :biggrin:... and that is OK too.

[NeverMind]

I theorize that telepathy is actively suppressed



The emphasis on theorize has not escaped me. :-)
And it's not a bad theory, in principle, but I would still like to know -- at least in theory -- how would anyone go about it.

Because the fact is, if anyone is trying to do that, clearly it's not working.
I have been afflicted with telepathy all my life -- like my mother -- and it's only becoming worse.
When I say "worse", I mean more difficult to tolerate.

Because, believe me, it ain't fun.

[NeverMind]

@Nevermind,

If the computer would have tapped and money stolen from say a PayPal account, I am pretty sure the "sang froid" would not have helped. But I get your point, I really do... however you don't seem to get mine :biggrin:... and that is OK too.


I do, Ilie. :)

Like I said, I was discussing this as a matter of principle , precluding all sorts of illegal activities or any sort of objective harm to any individual.
If a system allows abuse of power of information - of any sort - then clearly the system must be targeted.

We ARE discussing this on two different levels, but it doesn't really matter, as -- I believe -- both aspects are valuable in this discussion.

[Ilie Pandia]

I theorize that telepathy is actively suppressed



The emphasis on theorize has not escaped me. :-)
And it's not a bad theory, in principle, but I would still like to know -- at least in theory -- how would anyone go about it.

Because the fact is, if anyone is trying to do that, clearly it's not working.
I have been afflicted with telepathy all my life -- like my mother -- and it's only becoming worse.
When I say "worse", I mean more difficult to tolerate.

Because, believe me, it ain't fun.

OK, I'll play along :)

Telepathy is being actively suppressed by ridiculing it and denying any proper research into it. I also suspect that it may be suppressed by the electromagnetic radiations that we are exposed to, by additives is our water and food, and probably on some more "esoteric" levels too.

Because is not working in your case, that does not mean suppression does not exist :p

And, I believe you that is not fun. But I also believe that if telepathy would be a common thing then it will be fun as we will have to learn to discipline our minds and open or close them to "outsiders" as the situation requires. This is all theory of course, since I am not a telepath myself ;)

[NeverMind]

I didn't say suppression of it it didn't exist (theoretically speaking, at least)
.It's just that I understood the notion of "suppression" as being something on a relatively wide scale,.
That's why I said it was "not working". If it were, I would have to have been affected as well.

I'll add -- perhaps -- a few words on the beast itself after I have rested a bit.
At this point, let me just say that it works under the condition of openness (and not just of the "mind") -- a condition that is not very selective.
It's not in its nature. It's more of take it or leave it thing.
In practice, that is.

[panopticon]

G'day All,

Thank you Ilie for the thread.
Ilie (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36735-Why-is-privacy-important&p=379630&viewfull=1#post379630) and 58andfixed (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36735-Why-is-privacy-important&p=379523&viewfull=1#post379523) mentioned some very valid reasons (along with many others) as to why it is important to keep private some aspects of their life.
For me some of the obvious reasons I keep certain things private online (at Avalon and elsewhere) are:

I don't actually know who you are (sure some use their real names but I don't actually know you, only the persona put forward).
Much of the forum is viewable by non-registered users and actively indexed by the various search engines.
It supplies less information for those who may be interested in my online life.
There is less chance of being categorised by association (I detest being put in a little box by others).
I reserve the right, as a sovereign individual, to retain a certain level of anonymity.
Perspective employers, or others who have a certain level of authority over me due to their position, may not take kindly to my opinions which could lead to any number of sanctions and/or discriminations. While I am not personally concerned by this, others who are close to me may also be discriminated against by association.
Information is power, from that power control can be exercised.
I am not a participant in 'social networking software', unless via an anonymous avatar, so I can escape the annoyance of being contacted by people I didn't particularly like decades ago.

I am particularly wary of the latest government-corporate invasions of privacy.
The broad scale use of biometrics, RFID and the new "swipe and pay" credit/debit cards are a sore point, as are the tracking of online activity (eg purchases through online retailers).
In addition to this is the sale/trade of personal information between corporations/charities. The phone calls from corporations/charities "representatives" is exceedingly annoying. I take great joy in talking for as long as possible with them and being deliberately dumb so as to keep them on the phone.

It is also interesting that when a census is taken we, in Australia at least, are assured that the information supplied will remain anonymous and no further action will be taken. Why then does the census collector go through the form to make sure it has been completed? I know someone who wrote some false information on their form to see the reaction. The person in question later had an intrusive visit to ascertain the veracity of the information supplied. So when we are told that the "information remains anonymous" what it really means is "will remain anonymous unless we say otherwise".

I am, in real life, as I portray myself at Avalon and feel no shame, or need to hide my attitudes, in either my day to day interactions or my postings here.

In the virtual environment I choose to retain anonymity as I like the fact that I have a "clean slate" and my thoughts on a subject can be read without preconceptions. This leads to a sharing of ideas that I find helps with my understanding of subjects I find interesting/important as well as providing points for future reference on subjects I may not have touched on without the sharing of perspectives/understandings that have occurred.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[DarMar]

Hi,

I would like to know answer on that one also cause in most parts of my life i discovered that privacy is actually an illusion. And actually privacy doesnt exists.
Specially when using technical equipment which we barelly know to use and know nothing about how its done, yes few knows but very larger scale barely know where log off button is.
So why would illusion be important i wonder?

to this:
If you really don't care about privacy, I challenge you to post some of the information I wrote about here.

Lets say im pretty aware of some ways of how things work on this planet. I lived in shadow for a looong time and knowing it is not the time to go out of shadow to not get burned.
Avalon is first forum i ever registered and how things are it will stay only one for now.. I never ever gave any usefull data on any device and *100 on internet.. and im on net since BBC and Amiga
The day i applied request to join this community is the same day i decided to be known in database. Also i made Fb account so i can make their job easier at some points.
As we all know Bill and Kerry attracts much attention and i decided that this is the place to do that.
As they have reason to collect our data i have very reason that my data be collected in that way.
One step at a time and heading way i came to head.
Have many practical solutions and not liking much theories but as i noticed moment to step out with small steps i also knew collective is not yet ready for practical job im kinda all ears mostly here.

privacy in my laguage means: fooling yourself that youre special by keeping secret that everyone is keeping.

[58andfixed]

DutchSinse raises a very valid point that hasn't been brought up often, other than the general "abuse of power of information."

It doesn't have anything to do with laws either. Simply opinion that is different than the one that is held by those that could employ those that are searched.

DutchSinse brings up the issue early on in his 'closing' statement video. The 2nd issue he brings up is one of costs --- bandwidth, hardware & invested time.

Of the two issues DutchSinse brings up, the first one -- of expressing an opinion judged to be 'outside the acceptable norms for the corporate environment that would be preferred.'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFhDpF38pw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxFhDpF38pw

10m 303 views

Potential employers or clients can Google someone, and choose to employ them -- or not. Now this issue is a sensitive one for me, because I've only got 10 fingers and 10 toes, so I don't have enough digits to count up all the times I've been ostracized for my opinions coming as different from the 'herd.' This is a very real cost to expressing challenges to MSM herd mentality -- one that is very needed at this point in our history to counter the onslaught social engineering.

- 58

[58andfixed]

Great points PanOpticon:

Those 'air mile cards' -- how long have they been out -- 15/20 years ....? Seen them coming a country mile away.

Never bought into them, and frequently tell people about the 'DATA FARMING' that goes on to develop methods of putting one item on sale, only to gourd their wallet on associated items.

I encourage people to SWAP their AIR MILE cards. It helps to distort the data. :)

- 58





The broad scale use of biometrics, RFID and the new "swipe and pay" credit/debit cards are a sore point, as are the tracking of online activity (eg purchases through online retailers).

I take great joy in talking for as long as possible with them and being deliberately dumb so as to keep them on the phone.
Panopticon

[gdiggs]

Because it's the basis of individual sovereignty, as opposed to the hive life.

This succinctly sums it up on a social/political level for me.

Perhaps slightly tangentially, I've been thinking about privacy on a personal level. It seems to me that there are two types of people in the world: those who think there are two types of people in the world and those who don't... *ahem* what I meant to say is, there are those who will talk to you and those who prefer to talk about you. Privacy doesn't seem like so much of an issue with the second type. People who talk to you get to know you, get to know your perspective; if they have a problem with you, for whatever reason, there is the opportunity to defend yourself, explain, negotiate, and resolve the issue. Those who rather talk about you have little concern with getting their facts straight, often willfully and gleefully misconstrue their information in favor of juicier gossip. With these people privacy is more important to give them less ammunition to throw about out of context.

To look it another way, why would you go about violating somebody's privacy to gather information as opposed to talking to them directly? This is still on the interpersonal level. Talking to someone, getting to know them, fostering communication I feel is more in line with STO. Getting to know The Other, exploring their perspectives, motivations and reasoning. Spreading information about someone with complete disregard for that person is STS; gossip serves to aggrandize the gossiper at the expense of the gossiped about.

Jumping back more to the social/political approach of privacy in relation to TPTB I feel that privacy, as Norman said, is necessary to maintain certain level of individual sovereignty and freedom. I feel as though I should have nothing to hide but in the current circumstances that if certain things aren't hidden then life will become even more difficult than it is.

Of course it is always slightly different depending on where you are in the world. But, for example, if you enjoy exploring your consciousness through ingesting certain naturally occurring substances, or if you have a preference for different (fully consensual between adults) expressions of sexuality than the hetero-normative, or are an advocate an alternative political perspective or a fervent critic of the status quo, doing these things in the public sphere can make the brown stuff hit the rotary air-moving device.

I hope that all makes some kind of sense, I fear I might have got a little rambling on it, but nevermind.

If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.

[58andfixed]

Thank you StarChild111.

Consider what happened to the Dixie Chicks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks).

"During a London concert ten days before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, lead vocalist Maines said "we don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States (George W. Bush) is from Texas"."

"The statement offended many Americans, who thought it rude and unpatriotic, and the ensuing controversy cost the band half of their concert audience attendance in the United States."

*****

People are too easily herded about by 'consensus thinking' and MSM 'talking points' to be able to examine and cope with different perspectives.

When civilization can mature to a level that public discourse cannot be so easily vilified, it will be easier to leave our names attached instead of using privacy handles.

Right now the few that do speak under their birth names openly, collect every bit of my respect for their courage.

- 58



Its important because in our world, anybody anywhere can hold anything you say against you. ESPECIALLY when the topic of discussion are as controversial as the ones here.

[Ilie Pandia]

The beginning of this video is a very interesting talk about privacy:

Tkg3fmRu3zw

[Eagle]

why do I need privacy if i have nothing to hide and I am open and honest with my feelings and who I am, we become private because we are ashamed or have something to hide, soon nothing will be private, then what

[Ilie Pandia]

Sure Dig,

Can you please share with us your full name, occupation, income, what you spend your money on, email address, names of your children and where they go to schools, living family members and their location... no? Does this make you dishonest :)?

Just kiddin'

[Ilie Pandia]

Here is an excellent article about "Why privacy is important": http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2006/05/70886



The most common retort against privacy advocates -- by those in favor of ID checks, cameras, databases, data mining and other wholesale surveillance measures -- is this line: "If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?"

Some clever answers: "If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me." "Because the government gets to define what's wrong, and they keep changing the definition." "Because you might do something wrong with my information." My problem with quips like these -- as right as they are -- is that they accept the premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong. It's not. Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect.

[Ilie Pandia]

Another great answer to this question posted here: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-privacy-important-to-people

Since there is no direct link for that answer I'll have to copy it here, as the page may change in the future.



1. Physical safety (particularly for women, and particularly with location data).

2. Concern that your comments or behavior will be taken out of context, and potentially used against you in ways you can't anticipate.

3. The bits and pieces of data that you leave behind could be amalgamated into something else. You might end up revealing something you never intended to (like your sexual orientation). Remember Facebook's power to predict with some accuracy whether a couple would break up or not based on profile view data? Credit card companies can also infer whether you've lost your job or not based on sudden spending changes. Or if your female family members happen to "Like" lots of breast cancer research pages, (suggesting that they have been impacted by the disease), should a health insurance company factor that into the rates they charge you?

4. There's also concern that this data will help advertisers influence your behavior in ways you're not aware of. To some extent, advertising has always involved some level of psychological manipulation. Marketers put sexually appealing women in ads or attractive photos of food to trigger a Pavlovian response. Commercial images in magazines and TV affect what our society thinks is beautiful or worth aspiring toward.

Hyper-personalized ads that target us based on our entire life history of data may someday be able to influence us in ways we can't comprehend.

In the era of standardized, mass media, it was probably easier for consumers to understand and resist common advertising ploys. In the emerging era of hyper-personalized, social media, it may not be that simple. In Facebook's system, no human should ever theoretically see your personal data in order to target ads. It's all algorithmic. Even so, I'd like to know how personalized ads affect my behavior. I'd like to believe I have free will, but undoubtedly, advertising has impacted decisions I've made during the course of my life.

5. Freedom from tyranny. Maybe it doesn't seem so relevant now in our democratic, capitalist society, but just think back to authoritarian regimes from the past. You never know.

6. And one bonus reason: people often behave in inconsistent and irrational ways. One could argue that we don't actually have a singular "character," but rather our behavior is the product of competing and conflicting tendencies.

People may desire privacy because they know they will change over time or because they are unwilling to confront their own contradictions and irrationality.

See below: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20brooks.html
"... a century’s worth of experiments suggests that people’s actual behavior is not driven by permanent traits that apply from one context to another. Students who are routinely dishonest at home are not routinely dishonest at school. People who are courageous at work can be cowardly at church. People who behave kindly on a sunny day may behave callously the next day when it is cloudy and they are feeling glum. Behavior does not exhibit what the psychologists call “cross-situational stability.”

Note: I'm not putting these up here because I'm a privacy freak. These are just risks that anyone who is designing a system that involves sharing personal data ought to consider for the sake of their users.

[Zillah]

Because there is something very sacred by only allowing a special someone into your Secret Garden <3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLosOQP400

[Curt]

If I could have thanked you twice for this post, I would have. lol.
Sure Dig,

Can you please share with us your full name, occupation, income, what you spend your money on, email address, names of your children and where they go to schools, living family members and their location... no? Does this make you dishonest :)?

Just kiddin'

[Elly]

Ilie, thanks for the very informative links.

First, there is the idea of trust. Like with any relationship, you don't reveal too much about yourself until you know the other person better. I think it's a question of personal safety (psychological and physical). Then, there is the idea of power within the relationship. Are you dependent on this individual or entity (i.e. government, employer, insurance company, financial institution, etc.), has it more power over you? This arises the risk of abuse and even control. Therefore, privacy is important to protect your free-will and individuality.

[blake]

Hello Ilie Pandia,

I would like to thank you for starting this thread, and posting the links that you have shared. Other than the economy, I think there is not one issue that is more important for freedom, liberty, and personal wealth than people understanding, and being able to articulate why their individual privacy is necessary for their personal well being and that of their family. I have almost posted to this thread several times, but decided to put it off until I read what others had to say, and at this point I have nothing to add. So thank you for bringing this very important issue up which affects each and every one of us.

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis