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shadowstalker
22nd January 2012, 21:14
I have religious friends and I very much respect them for not trying to convert me, as I don't try to convert them, we have awesome conversations of spirituality. I don't and will not appreciate anyone who tries to convert anyone as there is no proof of a church god to back one up with.

I know several ppl who use religion as well as church, who use religion to gain control over others and use the old tactics of fear for the soul or life, send guilt complexes to there friends and especially to women. these ppl are highly insecure and have no control over there life, this is no different from being OCD.

Some seem to turn to religion to gain power over their own personal lives but when they do this they lose there personal power and give it up to a fake god created by man. These folks for the most part also give up personal responsibility to themself or others, these are the folks I feel for the most, the ones who feel they need to give something up to gain something back in there life, this is a false hood they have been tricked into by the church and society. Give up something about you and you will gain something back, this is the basic and basis of the lie. You didn't get what you wanted because god was mad at you or the devil intervened...

Your marriage failed because you didn't hold true to gods word, NO.... your marriage didnít work because it wasnít really meant to be or your spouse is an ass or you yourself messed up, or you rushed out of fear to get married (out of fear of being alone) to someone that was not worth it... there are all kinds of things that get involved with these things in life.

Some turn to religion to gain favor with friends or family, this is not good either, can you not be yourself? does one have to be someone else to gain a friend or acceptance of another? NO one should have to do that. If you have to give up something of yourself to keep or gain friends then they are not your friends, is this not what your parents use to tell you? You are weaker for giving up on yourself then to keep yourself, don't listen to the lie folks tell you about giving yourself up to keep, if you do that you only keep the lies in your life, not the truth in your life. If you have to downgrade yourself then all you truly gain is a fantasy and fantasies don't last very long do they..

Now if youíre going to these church's to gain some type of true spiritual learning then you need to be honest with yourself and with others and make it known and state you are not religious. I have more respect with that then to anyone one who is being pretentious about it.

Never give up who you truly are inside to be politically/religiously correct with others, it only brings you down and gives power to others, whether they realize it or not..

If you make mistakes in your life you should not be held to such a degree as to have someone tell you that youíre going to hell or what not, heaven is in the heart and no other place same goes for hell, it's up to you which directions you should take and not others.. if you want to party on your own time and not go to church you do have that right without feeling bad about it, if thatís who you are inside... Not an issue with me, "do what ye will, harm none"

I just wish more of my friends would truly look inside and not outside for their answers, I know they would be much happier for it. there is no fear in this except for what they themselves see in themselves, and what they create within looking into their own mirror..

How many friends has one lost due to religious judgment that most religious sects require one to have?

No this person cannot be your friend because they are not the same religion or because they are gay or because they don't fit the so called dress code recited to them... In your heart of hearts, soul of souls do you not miss these ppl, who have been there for you despite the dogmatic incarnations you display? These ppl still love you, why because they listen to their true hearts and not other versions/definitions/ of acceptance brought on by religious/social control...

There is much more to say but i don't want to turn this into a rant.
Respectfully submitted with the heart in mind.
Namaste-Matte

Molly
25th January 2012, 07:03
Very well said, ShadowStalker.
I myself have always been baffled/confused/etc... by certain behaviors by some folks who claim to be "Religious". There seems to be a good bit of bigotry, hypocrisy, deceit, you name it -coming from religious organizations. These big churches, while on the outside seemingly innocent, being a way to evade taxes while taking money left & right, claiming to be of aid to the "community" yet turning down people requesting bill assistance or food donations if they aren't a member of the church. Oh I could complain about this sort of thing all day LOL. But, I'll keep it short & just let you know I agree with your sentiments.

BestLion
25th January 2012, 08:16
Nice write up. I myself in my late teens early 20s got 'converted in a Methodist church. I spent about 3 years in this religion. I also went for 1 year to a community Christian Bible College. I was in the Army Reserves then go thankfully the GI Bill covered most of that.
My experience in this religion was at first positive- negative. The main reasons I got born again was to get out of hell. I thought I was a decent person , but without accepting Jesus I would go to hell. Thus the main reason to get into this was fear..and this church looking back would feed on that fear. They would preach at revivals or occasionally on hell and do 'alter calls' ..
More less the tact was to tell people how bad it will be in the next life without Jesus..and give stories like a man who didnt repent in revival..drove home got in a car wreck and died and ended up in hell..Thus the pastor said this can you YOU tonight..thus they played some slow song..and gave a an invitation to jesus ..was very emotional...the church works on peoples emotions..esp emotion of fear.
Well I did the born again thing at age 19..during my 3 years in this stuff..i preached at churches. Went door to door calling. I was rather fanatical. But as time grew..i noticed the people of the 'church' always sneaking around, being hypocritical, telling white lies. This I couldn't negotiate with the Bible. And the Methodist church believes unlike the baptist that people can fall from the faith..and have to get re-born again. I noticed while in the church young people struggling with sexual sins..and other struggling..and many would get re-born again every revival. I noticed this religion made people miserable. And my own life as a young 20 year old man..I also lusted after women, and had not always good thoughts..thus lead to my struggle. So i just had enough! I started studying the historical aspect of this faith, and consistencies etc..and about a year latter I left this church completely and never looked back! I feel sorry for people who spend their entire lives in this stuff.
I can also tell you these churches people are sneaking..I seen many adulteries being done. Also sexual abuse of children was reported to the police. ..
Well anyway I had many friends in this church..and LOST ALL OF THEM! A few in recent years found me on faceboook..but that is hardly a friendship. My sister is still in this stuff, and we can not talk about religion if we want to keep in good communications.
I see it like this..we as humans tend to grow in life..and who we are at a age 20 is not the same at age 35. That was a time in my life where I was naive and didnt know. I outgrew that stuff..and I came to the conclusion that it was just best to find new friends. Those Christians friends kept me on as a friend to reconvert me. And I wanted friends who didnt have an agenda and could accept me as who I was , and my for my views. Anyway..I went out to be a friend, and found many new friends who are open mined people, logical, and loyal friends.
As of now I dont have any Christians friends "or may I say serious Christians" some who claim they are via born that way..but never go to church etc.. I just have nothing in common with these people, and I am not interested in being a friend with someone who has an agenda to convert me via the friendship.

SomaSmith
25th January 2012, 08:19
Hi Shadowstalker,

It's as if you pulled those words from my own mind.
I had an 8 hr drive with a life-long friend this evening and we talked about this exact thing.
It is frustrating to miss out on experiences with others because of their judgement, but it is what it is.

Very well written, Thank you for sharing.

Soma

Borden
25th January 2012, 09:26
Hello shadowstalker,

I once stood in a hallway in one of the darkest hours of my life and had a conversation with a Christian who told me that he was very sorry, but because I smoke cigarettes I am going to hell.

In my opinion religions can attract the weak minded who cannot begin to recognize their own divinity. Religion is the enemy of spirituality. Having said that, I also know some Christians who are really lovely, intelligent people. Funnily enough, those Christians seem far less likely to quote from their beloved book, or to judge me according to a doctrine. Let's face it, this world generally has a trap for everyone. Even the intelligent and well meaning.

You can rant from the heart you know! Sometimes a good rant does the job.

Borden.

Jay
25th January 2012, 09:37
Christianity, Paulianity, Churchianity, Catholicism, Charismatic Witchcraft, Dominionism - all of these and some - are not all from the same fold although they are seemingly so on the face of it.

Shadowstalker: "I know several ppl who use religion as well as church, who use religion to gain control over others and use the old tactics of fear for the soul or life, send guilt complexes to there friends and especially to women." Me too - and some of them are the biggest vipers I ever met - sorry to say. Fortunately they are not the beginning and ending of life.

Borden -will see you at the smokers corner in heaven... :rapture:

BestLion
25th January 2012, 09:49
I once stood in a hallway in one of the darkest hours of my life and had a conversation with a Christian who told me that he was very sorry, but because I smoke cigarettes I am going to hell.
Ridiculous. before the modem age most Christians smoked cigars..the Prince of Pastors Charles Spurgion smoked daily. Also beer aint bad, martin Luther had a brewery in his home and would sit in the 1500s around a table drink 3-4L of beer and talk the Bible with his other pastors in the protestant church..I guess they also are going to hell. Can never do enough to please this megalomaniac god. Spiritually I would believe humans have more of a connection to nature than to a man in the sky.
i personally am geared more towards polytheism-paganism. They seem to love life,the earth, mother nature, the cosmos, unlike the sin- and death-obsessed Christian.

Borden
25th January 2012, 09:56
Well said, Bestlion,

and Jay ... I'll be there

Borden

shadowstalker
25th January 2012, 18:29
Thank you for the positive responses they are awesome..

Nice to know that I am not the only one who sees these things happening...lol
Religion is a very tricky pawn and well played by anyone who truly wants control over another person.
And most of the sheeple are plated by it and these poor folks have no clue till they do some research with an open none bias mind and heart, this is the only way one can truly break free from the dogma and fear...

write4change
25th January 2012, 19:03
One of the things that white men never acknowledge is that they got the pipe and tobacco from the Native Americans who always used it in a spiritual way. Never in their wildest imaginations would they have thought about dragging a pipe around with them all day and sucking on it constantly. From the beginning white men demonstrated to Native Americans that they had very little spiritual concepts nor did they really want any. Nor did the Natives ever convert tobacco to snuf which they saw as a very dirty habit--spitting and spreading disease by animals eating it etc. This is why few whites ever saw the inside of a sweat lodge in a spiritual way.

Having done many sweat lodge with Dakota Soux, the medicine man rarely shares his name. I never knew the name of this young man who was truly incredible married to a woman 20 years older and who believed his destiny was to serve the White Buffalo Woman. From doing this I understood why there was almost no mental illness in Native Americans until the white man. How many friends do you have that will sit for hours and give up the water of their bodies so you might be healed? It is in the deep dark shadows of the sweat lodge that Native American men have the safety to explore and share their needs and their fears. In the dark, they are one and they have the good manners afterwards to never discuss their experiences in the mundane.

The sweat lodge also by its very nature teaches a great deal of self discipline. Again the shamanic religions always teach the way up is the way down deep within yourself first.

shadowstalker
25th January 2012, 19:38
Very well said, ShadowStalker.
I myself have always been baffled/confused/etc... by certain behaviors by some folks who claim to be "Religious". There seems to be a good bit of bigotry, hypocrisy, deceit, you name it -coming from religious organizations. These big churches, while on the outside seemingly innocent, being a way to evade taxes while taking money left & right, claiming to be of aid to the "community" yet turning down people requesting bill assistance or food donations if they aren't a member of the church. Oh I could complain about this sort of thing all day LOL. But, I'll keep it short & just let you know I agree with your sentiments.

If we could meet we would b ranting together on that one.....lol been trying to help from all kinds of places like that and well if your not a MEMBER you get squat.