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Aqua marina
2nd February 2012, 17:28
Most of us probably know about John Titor, the putative time traveller who (on our timeline) first appeared in 1997. Many internet sites are devoted to him, so please read up.
http://johntitor.com

In 1997 Art Bell had a call-in show for time travellers. John Titor did not call in but sent a fax, which Art read on the air:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEqnXKCvKCE&feature=related

Below is the link to his new video, which I ran across this morning by accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm_jJ7LNSy0&context=C3fd7109ADOEgsToPDskLiM-N3Zp0OLrpRHRRAvkTy

In the notes to this video, he also has a website for contact and assistance:

http://johntitorhome.webs.com/

A search of "john titor" on youtube brings up many videos, too many to post links to. On this channel, JT has just the one video posted, explaining why he's here, saying he's stranded by a technological issue, and seeking some modest help.

In his original posts, John Titor was verbally straightforward and fairly abrupt. The wording in the video, as brief as it is, impresses me as being from the same person. I'd be interested in other opinions, and especially in that of Bill Ryan. John Titor would be an outstanding interviewee, and could feasibly get the help he needs through us.

NeverMind
2nd February 2012, 19:22
Thanks. :)

I learned about Titor in 2001, I think, when the story was still very much alive on the internet.
I didn't believe the story then, I don't believe it now.

However, I do agree that, should s/he (if s/he is indeed a single person) be interviewed by an intelligent, healthily sceptical, polite (of course) but unrelenting interviewer, it could be fun to watch/read. :)

Aryslan
2nd February 2012, 19:28
I don't believe it for a second. He needs $4000.00 dollar? I don't recall the J.T. I read about ever asking for handouts. I'd say this is a fake.

Aqua marina
2nd February 2012, 19:41
I'm less than certain about an "unrelenting interviewer" because a confrontational interview style effectively blocks the person's ability to communicate. One of the few heinously argumentative interviews given by Art Bell, oddly enough, was of Oliver Williams, webmaster and researcher for the John Titor website. It was as though Art was determined to keep the "interview" narrowed to the topic of JT being suspected as a fraud so that JT's actual commentary and future predictions would never come out. And they didn't. Adopting the presupposition that someone is a fraud is also fatal to the interviewer's own understanding, which drifts away from seeking information towards confirming what it already believes. And since the interviewer is the gatekeeper of the information, it also limits what the viewer can derive from the interview, whether s/he begins with prejudice or not.

By contrast, George Noory has given several useful and open minded interviews to Oliver Williams, good ones on Youtube from 2010 and from 2011, in which a fascinating picture emerges of continued confirmations over time of many of John's predictions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCqSoVhdmHg&feature=related

Ron Paul gets interviewers of the type you describe, with a predisposition to want to challenge him, and we can all see how unfairly the dynamics of that works. I'd rather see Bill interview in the open way he inevitably does.

Lazlo
2nd February 2012, 19:56
Even if the entire John Titor story is a complete hoax, it makes for absolutely fascinating reading. If he was a hoaxer, he was a VERY intelligent and well read one.

I ran across "Conviction of a Time Traveler" by Anonymous after hearing Kerry interview the author last year. I bought it and thought it was a great read.

Just my opinion, but even after many predictions failed to come true, the JT story still speaks to me more than most any other witness or whistleblower out there. My personal thought is that there is something to his story, and either we had a MWT divergence and/or he purposely skewed dates.

It certainly isn't any harder to believe (and I think easier) than Looking Glass, Yellow Book, Montauk, etc.

NeverMind
2nd February 2012, 20:00
I'm less than certain about an "unrelenting interviewer" because a confrontational interview style effectively blocks the person's ability to communicate.

That's a given. That's why I said polite.
(To me, polite, by definition, does not mean cold, let alone confrontational.)

Let's put it this way: FRIENDLY - but unrelenting. :)

Kari Lynn
2nd February 2012, 20:39
I had never found anything that Titor wrote himself, and by the time I'd heard of him, he was gone. But the person that told me about him said that he had been given a DNA test, to compare his DNA against the DNA of the then young child himself of that time of whom he stayed with. Supposedly the test proved he was who he said he was. But I never found that test or the results thereof either. I have often wondered though why he would need to go back in time to get a computer, when I'm sure the plans still exist to build one? And, how he planned to get back home when his time machine held a percentage of divergence. 60 years is not a long span, but just one second off that frame would prevent stable travel. If he's for real, and is stuck, I'm guessing he figured that out already.
I still reserve judgement of whether he's real or fake. The person who told me of him is credible. And I still have yet to see that DNA test of which he spoke of.

Lazlo
2nd February 2012, 20:55
I have never read of the DNA test, but the need to recover the computer was actually one of the more credible points to the whole story. It is way to detailed to go into in a single post.

If you've got a few hours to spare, the story is really worth digging into. Like I said, absolutely fascinating and a great read even if it is just sci-fi.

Dennis-G
2nd February 2012, 23:55
My opinion - a complete and utter hoax and fraud. For one thing, have any of his "predictions" come true? He claimed in his fax, which was his first contact with Art Bell, that Y2K would be a big mess and cause lots of deaths. We all know what a load of overblown hype Y2K was. If he was truly from the future he should have known that.

The physics breakthroughs at CERN never happened either. It was supposed to have happened years ago. Civil war in the United States was supposed to start in 2004 according to Titor. Did I miss it?

The Olympics were supposed to never happen again after 2004. Must have been reruns on my TV then. In fact, it seems all 10 of his predictions never happened, though they were supposed to have all happened by now.

Why would someone from the future even bother contacting Art Bell or anyone else, anyway? It's much more likely someone from the present would be doing it for giggles than someone from the future.

Any now he wants donations. Yeah, right. The link to his new video doesn't have a video on the page anymore. Did he give a reason why he needed donations? Because if he did, and they are related to his time travel hoax, he's most likely breaking the law by setting up a fund for donations under false pretenses.

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 01:25
Actually, anything that happened on our timeline after the year 2000 would, of necessity, be quite different than in the timeline JT experienced. This is something that he explained at length. Although we perceive a straight and unitary line from ourselves forward to John's time, his timeline actually diverges from our own because in John's, he himself was not part of his earlier life.

In John's timeline, nobody named John Titor came back in time to help correct the Y2K issues. Y2K therefore HAPPENED, and the electronic and electric infrastructure collapsed worldwide. It was huge, and this interjection of chaos precipitated societal breakdown and civil war.

Our timeline WAS John's timeline until he himself travelled back in time. That caused a split; we travelled forward on a timeline which included 1) John's adult appearance within the time of his childhood, and 2) his acquisition and retrieval of the IBM 5100, the only consumer computer with an inbuilt multi computer language translation and conversion program, which he explained was needed to correct the problem. In our timeline John appeared, retrieved the IBM 5100, and Y2K did not happen. This huge difference between timelines leads to SOME different events, and to numerous other event happening slightly differently, or at a slightly different time.
John Titor can only say what happened in his own timeline, much of which matches, but which doesn't match in all regards.

Don't know what you mean by the "Cern breathroughs" not happening, since Cern did announce the microsingularities just as John had said, only a few months after John left in 2001.

One interesting thing: it looks to me as if the collapse of Y2K on John's timeline destroyed the power of the cabal, and that as a result on his world true science is much more out in the open than what we have. I have wondered more than once if his post Y2K world isn't actually better for human freedom than what we have on our own timeline.

And I would like to ask again: John Titor says his window to stay here is until early May. Would we like Bill to interview him?

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 01:47
An interesting podcast by Oliver Williams, the JohnTitor.com webmaster, in which he discusses Cern's discovery of the singularities or "mini" black holes, and John's mission concerning the IBM 5100.

http://www.johntitor.com/Podcast01.htm

WhiteFeather
3rd February 2012, 02:08
Why don't we confer with Bill, see what he thinks about this. Fraud or Fact!

cloud9
3rd February 2012, 02:30
One interesting thing: it looks to me as if the collapse of Y2K on John's timeline destroyed the power of the cabal, and that as a result on his world true science is much more out in the open than what we have. I have wondered more than once if his post Y2K world isn't actually better for human freedom than what we have on our own timeline.

And I would like to ask again: John Titor says his window to stay here is until early May. Would we like Bill to interview him?


From what I remember from a George Noory show, John Titor said that Hillary Clinton was elected president, also he described his world very chaotic and scary, there was war, epidemics and scarcity of water so if this is true, we are much much better ...

haibane
3rd February 2012, 02:49
Wow. I haven't come across the name John Titor even during my numerous searches for vintage computers, which included the IBM5100 (with a hope to add one to my collection), that is until last year when it appeared in an anime series called Steins;Gate (a fairly good sci-fi story Btw) and thought it was made up. I wonder how I could have missed such an intriguing story ... (O__o )

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 03:01
Any now he wants donations. Yeah, right. The link to his new video doesn't have a video on the page anymore. Did he give a reason why he needed donations? Because if he did, and they are related to his time travel hoax, he's most likely breaking the law by setting up a fund for donations under false pretenses.

Your statements about "setting up a fund" are without substantiation. More pertinently, I just clicked on the video link and it still works perfectly. Maybe there's an issue with the video coding for your particular computer. I'm sorry but I never mastered the process of embedding a video, so I can only provide the link.

Lazlo
3rd February 2012, 04:36
Interesting brain teaser for you:

There has been a lot of talk lately about timelines converging at the end of this year. What if we did have the divergence because he showed up, but the timeline we are on now ends up in the same future that John Titor described. We still get a civil war, nuclear strikes, etc but...ouch, it is compressed into a more chaotic and shorter span of years.

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 05:21
Interesting brain teaser for you:

There has been a lot of talk lately about timelines converging at the end of this year. What if we did have the divergence because he showed up, but the timeline we are on now ends up in the same future that John Titor described. We still get a civil war, nuclear strikes, etc but...ouch, it is compressed into a more chaotic and shorter span of years.

Your hypothesis makes sense to me. We would be converging towards a future increasingly like his own, so that any predictions of his for periods from 2013 forward would become more and more like our own future. Interesting, considering he says he will post a video of 2036 in exchange for help.

Dennis-G
3rd February 2012, 06:07
Any now he wants donations. Yeah, right. The link to his new video doesn't have a video on the page anymore. Did he give a reason why he needed donations? Because if he did, and they are related to his time travel hoax, he's most likely breaking the law by setting up a fund for donations under false pretenses.

Your statements about "setting up a fund" are without substantiation. More pertinently, I just clicked on the video link and it still works perfectly. Maybe there's an issue with the video coding for your particular computer. I'm sorry but I never mastered the process of embedding a video, so I can only provide the link.

As for setting up a fund, the Paypal donation button is on the page. Someone else mentioned he was trying to raise $4000. That isn't some kind of fund raising attempt in your world? Besides, in the only sentence I mentioned the word "fund" it was preceded in the same sentence by the word IF ... indicating it is speculation.

As for the video, I've checked the page with Firefox, Opera, IE, and Chrome. All I see is an empty space where I assume the video is supposed to be. I don't have trouble with videos anywhere else, YouTube, here, other websites, so I have no idea why others can see it and I can't. Ideas, anyone?

Dennis-G
3rd February 2012, 06:19
So I went back there to look at the source code to see if I could find an URL to the video so I could enter it directly into my browser. Didn't see it, but I did see something else you may find interesting.

In the Paypal donation code are these lines:


<input type="hidden" name="business" value="david.van.den.bosch1@telenet.be">
<input type="hidden" name="item_name" value="donate for John Titor">

So David Vandenbosch is who the donations go to. Do you suppose David Vandenbosch is the infamous John Titor, or perhaps someone pretending to be him? I found a David Vandenbosch that lives in Belgium, which is the country code at the end of that email address. He's a Psychologist & Psychotherapist. I don't know if it's the same David Vandenbosch, but a psychologist is just the kind of person who would know how to play a convincing mind game.

Hmm ... it's getting interesting, isn't it?

Blueskywalking
3rd February 2012, 08:19
Only youtube comment so far:

I'll give you $4000 if i can go with you

teherror 14 hours ago


love it!
Also came across time traveller John all those years ago - truth or fiction - fantastic!

"There must be some kind of way out of here...." :cool:

"I'll give you $5k!"

"Cmon' Man, I'll give you $10k if I can take my dog..."

DNA
3rd February 2012, 08:42
I really enjoyed the original John Titor story. There is no way I'm buying this is the same John Titor, unless the family, and their lawyer representitive come out and officially say something.
Also, and wouldn't this be funny, the original Titor of our timeline has got to be around 20 by now. So,,,I suppose it could be the young Titor who has now grown up.

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 13:36
It IS getting interesting.

Thanks for looking at that code. You know, though, when someone just clicks the donation button it goes to a page which says PLAINLY at the top that all payments are being processed to david.van.den.bosch1@telenet.be. So it's not hidden, but is a prominent feature of the page.

By the way, I suspect you were looking at the wrong link for the video. I edited the original post up top to show more clearly that "video" refers to the Youtube link. When you watch it, you'll see that he actually says he needs just $2000--actually it's in text--which was inexplicably doubled in the reporting. LOL--the game of telephone isn't supposed to work when you actually have the print version to check with.

I found the linked in pages with David Van der Bosch's affiliations. This is him:

Current Member Board of Directors at Vlaamse Badminton Liga vzw
Sports Department at University of Antwerp
Communication Manager at IFIUS
Past Clinical Psychologist at ZNA
Education Belgian Olympic Academy
Universiteit Antwerpen
Universiteit Gent
Connections 110 connections

Pardon me, but does it seem to you that this academic, who sits on a board of directors, needs $2000 so much that he'll set up a phony webpage? This is a professionally affluent individual.

What occurs to me is that it could be a psycho-sociological experiment, either a private one or with some connection to Van der Bosch's university affiliation. (His professional positions are way too senior for this person to be involved in computer mindgames that risk reputation like a slacker.)

Or, Van den Bosch could be the intermediary for JohnTitor in Europe, as attorney Larry Kramer(sp?) in the US. As a professional TT or time technician, John's missions might well take him to Europe, where he'd need contacts.

At any rate, I wrote directly to van den bosch at the telenet email address to explain that his name appears on the account and asking for clarification, so we should know directly.

Incidently, there's a picture of David Van der Bosch on the faculty page below:

http://www.ua.ac.be/main.aspx?c=david.vandenbosch

jackovesk
3rd February 2012, 14:05
Re: Timelines

John Titor, obviously hasn't listend to the 'Bill Wood' interview..?...:pound:

Aqua marina
3rd February 2012, 14:18
Re: Timelines

John Titor, obviously hasn't listend to the 'Bill Wood' interview..?...:pound:

Indeed. That was but one of the things about Bill Wood/Brochbrader that made me feel he didn't know what he was talking about. One of the things I remember about John Titor was that he's not remotely tactful, and I can just imagine what he'd say about BW's performance.

jackovesk
3rd February 2012, 14:31
Re: Timelines

John Titor, obviously hasn't listend to the 'Bill Wood' interview..?...:pound:

Indeed. That was but one of the things about Bill Wood/Brochbrader that made me feel he didn't know what he was talking about. One of the things I remember about John Titor was that he's not remotely tactful, and I can just imagine what he'd say about BW's performance.

Having said what I said though Aqua marina,

I hope BW's version of the 'Timeline' is more accurate, rather than John Titor's take...:yes4:

Dennis-G
3rd February 2012, 18:58
It IS getting interesting.

Thanks for looking at that code. You know, though, when someone just clicks the donation button it goes to a page which says PLAINLY at the top that all payments are being processed to david.van.den.bosch1@telenet.be. So it's not hidden, but is a prominent feature of the page.

Odd...when I clicked the button it said Donation for John Titor. I wonder if it matters which browser you use? I'll have to check that out later.



By the way, I suspect you were looking at the wrong link for the video. I edited the original post up top to show more clearly that "video" refers to the Youtube link. When you watch it, you'll see that he actually says he needs just $2000--actually it's in text--which was inexplicably doubled in the reporting.

I'll check it out, thanks.



Pardon me, but does it seem to you that this academic, who sits on a board of directors, needs $2000 so much that he'll set up a phony webpage? This is a professionally affluent individual.


Honestly, not too much surprises me anymore. I've seen a lot of water flow under the bridge, so to speak. Academics are just as subject to human foibles, incongruity and disingenuousness as anyone.

I'm looking forward to see what his reply to you is, if you get one. I had the idea after I shut down my computer last night to go back and join the site, and then leave a message saying "How's it going...David?" just to see what his reaction would be. I'll wait now. :)

EDIT: I saw the video. I was expecting more. Nothing in it to change my mind, I'm afraid. I still think the whole Titor thing is a hoax. If the guy asking for Paypal donations is the same guy as the original Titor, then it's also become a scam now.