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Tony
11th February 2012, 11:48
This may, or may not help.

Whether this year will be magical or horrific, we do not know. But what is important is that collectively, we are aware of possible change. It's happening now at some level. So that in itself will have an effect.

I would like to discuss exaggeration. If we exaggerate, we could be obscuring the real thing, which could be extremely refined.
The ability to express what is felt is also vital. This may be difficult if one does not have the support of some structure.

A library of vocabulary is needed, with which to express oneself: that is why a system is useful – even though it may not be precisely what one is experiencing, it can help to convey to others. Otherwise it may be a feeling which others may sort of connect with, but which may not be exactly the same because of a different understanding – and so we may go off into a slight fantasy. That is why being precise is so important.

Let's take a feeling of devotion.
In the west, this brings a image of a dewy-eyed aspirant looking up devotedly at a statue – which doesn't convey to someone else of a different mindset what devotion is, or could be.

So if we look at devotion as trust - as a deep appreciation of what is being represented - this can seem more logical to the conceptual mind. This is how one can unify the heart and mind, otherwise if it is all head or all heart, it can be a barrier for others who are trying to empathise with what is being felt. Devotion can be alienating...

This trust is developed through looking, taking apart and reflecting on all aspects.
I have said this before, but it's as if 75% is provable, 20% is inference and if you have got that far, then trust is the other 5% because we are in the realm of indescribability at this point, beyond concepts. It's important to sharpen one's faculties and not just go by feeling...although feelings are an extremely useful radar when they are refined.

Devotion, in this sense, is tremendously important because one's heart and mind are totally open and receptive to what could be being transmitted by - what I would term, -“enlightened beings” (you may call it something else).

I speak from personal experience of this, and feel it is now the right time to say this, because I had a real problem with devotional practices – until I engaged in them. A year ago, I couldn't string two words together coherently, or join up the dots. Something has changed, which is remarkable. It has happened through devotion, deep appreciation, and trust – and a sense of longing: a connection of some sort was created.

I'm getting the feeling that it is happening to a lot of people, and I'm just saying be careful of exaggerating or imagining because this could obscure a pure, silent message.
This message cannot be held on to, or “claimed” in any way, because in claiming, the message can be intercepted and will produce pride.

Apart from meditation, prayer is important as a means of clarifying one's own mind for the benefit of all sentient beings. Maybe it's being a conduit...but I don't like putting labels on things. Sticking a label on yourself is claiming, and the right place for those labels is in the bin. Throw them away!

NeverMind
11th February 2012, 11:55
Personally I find this topic very important.

One of the reasons why many people tend to exaggerate feelings is because they are conditioned by their own language to do so.

The importance of language not only as an expressive tool but as a formative tool cannot be exaggerated. (And yet, very many people seem to think that they already know all there is to know about it.)

All I can say is, try and discipline yourself to express exactly what you mean - as an experiment, for a week or two.
Try saying I like this, a lot instead of awesome; I don't like that at all instead of that's terrible, but most of all, try to eliminate all variants of the verb to be (am, are, is, etc.).... and see how you feel. :)

Tony
11th February 2012, 11:56
Another way to look at it is: In prayer, I speak and God listens. In meditation, God speaks and I listen.

Tony
11th February 2012, 12:01
This episode is about Class and status, 11 minutes into the video, Manuel is told to 'throw it away!"

6lWJwgpOjpA

nf857
11th February 2012, 12:05
Yes this is great Pineal, ive felt this since the start of this year, a forbodeing feeling, like finally im not going to be 'labelled' anymore, i refuse to let other people tell me what or who i am. In that is people telling me what my health is like, when in reality its a lot different. People mis-understand what you mean even when its their in black/white easy to read by your own words, people still don't understand. Ive found talking to people over the phone is much easier in getting your point accross, its as if words on paper and words spoken have different meanings to people, maybe when people can hear where you are coming from, rather than just read it, as they don't know you there is no feeling attached to it, however when you speak in your person, they begin to understand? Just a thought. Ive felt like ive underplayed my illness quite a lot over the years, so people dont realise how much i suffer in reality, its because i wear a mask, & try & hide how much im suffering, i dont like to let other people worry about me, however since this started this year, ive started to speak a lot more plainly and honestly, than i would do before, its quite a unique feeling, like a new me is enfolding x

Tarka the Duck
11th February 2012, 12:27
Sometimes, being able to talk about things with people who are empathetic and allow you space without criticism, gives you time to reason out for yourself how you are feeling – particularly when you are feeling very emotional for some reason you can't clearly define. It's not always easy to accurately identify how you feels in a given moment...especially when you're feeling “sad”.

So empathy is so important: to understand that someone is feeling frustrated and overwhelmed by emotions. These things will all pass. And that is where the space is crucial. To react, to back someone into a corner, even to try and “sort it out” will all leave traces long after the emotions have died away.

BlueGem
11th February 2012, 12:41
Tarka, I agree when yo say empathy is important. I also think that patience is important in these situations, because frustration can cloud your judgement just as easily as exaggerated language IMO.

It is always easier to help someone else than to help ourselves, but patience towards yourself can be valuable too.

Tony
11th February 2012, 12:50
One of the outcomes of devotion is a feeling of softening up inside.
One's body and mind seem more flexible.
There are fewer desires.
There is a feeling of one's cup emptying, making way for other possibilities.

Tony
11th February 2012, 17:01
Stability.

There is a difference between a temporary experience and permanent experience, this of course is obvious...when it is pointed out!

A temporary appearance in sanskrit is called a Nyam. It is nothing to get excited about, it's a mere glimpse. If one is upset by these remarks, then it show instability. This is not knocking the experience, but if we are serious practitioners, we will pay attention. If not it could lead to much suffering.

This is precisely why one needs a guide (teacher). To help stabilise ones mind. Along the path of light, there is always the dark...waiting in ambush! The dark is the mind clinging to like and dislike.

Look into the essence of this magic, and realise that your mind is unfabricated purity.

Experiences create an experiencer and the thing experienced, a duality. Resting in unfabricated essence there can be no duality. Even this is only the beginning...!

9eagle9
11th February 2012, 18:05
That feelings can exaggerate anything out of proportion based soley on how we feel about it?

When I visted California several years back at the height of the AIDs scare, I was decended on by well meaning people literally shaking my arm and demanding to know what I was doing about the AIDs epidemic. They crusading on the behalf of all AIDs victims. And many of them had lost family members to AIDS.

I was very non plussed about the response they expected so could only state truthfully I had not personally crusaded about AIDS but that didn't have AIDs , I wasn't a vicitm of it, and I wasn't passing it around. Did that help the matter at all?

And they felt that was insufficient action on my part and thus become angrier with me.

So one woman who managed to keep her calm pulled me aside and offered me a peice of advice, and peice of Brie cheese on a cracker. And she said, "You have to accept that this is reality" as she handed me the cracker. "And that you are out of touch with reality. You don't know reality."

And I took the cracker and the cheese and I said, "Maybe, maybe not. But you haven't yet noticed that the cheese you are giving me is Cambenbert, and not Brie."

Lettherebelight
11th February 2012, 18:15
One of the outcomes of devotion is a feeling of softening up inside.
One's body and mind seem more flexible.
There are fewer desires.
There is a feeling of one's cup emptying, making way for other possibilities.

Pie'n'eal, what a cracker! I love that...wow

Mind if I quote this from you for the rest of this lifetime?

Nope...not exaggerating!

Lettherebelight
11th February 2012, 18:20
Another way to look at it is: In prayer, I speak and God listens. In meditation, God speaks and I listen.

Oh, yeah baby! :thumb:

...another winner!

jp11
11th February 2012, 19:07
This may, or may not help.

Whether this year will be magical or horrific, we do not know. But what is important is that collectively, we are aware of possible change. It's happening now at some level. So that in itself will have an effect.

I would like to discuss exaggeration. If we exaggerate, we could be obscuring the real thing, which could be extremely refined.
The ability to express what is felt is also vital. This may be difficult if one does not have the support of some structure.

A library of vocabulary is needed, with which to express oneself: that is why a system is useful – even though it may not be precisely what one is experiencing, it can help to convey to others. Otherwise it may be a feeling which others may sort of connect with, but which may not be exactly the same because of a different understanding – and so we may go off into a slight fantasy. That is why being precise is so important.

Let's take a feeling of devotion.
In the west, this brings a image of a dewy-eyed aspirant looking up devotedly at a statue – which doesn't convey to someone else of a different mindset what devotion is, or could be.

So if we look at devotion as trust - as a deep appreciation of what is being represented - this can seem more logical to the conceptual mind. This is how one can unify the heart and mind, otherwise if it is all head or all heart, it can be a barrier for others who are trying to empathise with what is being felt. Devotion can be alienating...

This trust is developed through looking, taking apart and reflecting on all aspects.
I have said this before, but it's as if 75% is provable, 20% is inference and if you have got that far, then trust is the other 5% because we are in the realm of indescribability at this point, beyond concepts. It's important to sharpen one's faculties and not just go by feeling...although feelings are an extremely useful radar when they are refined.

Devotion, in this sense, is tremendously important because one's heart and mind are totally open and receptive to what could be being transmitted by - what I would term, -“enlightened beings” (you may call it something else).

I speak from personal experience of this, and feel it is now the right time to say this, because I had a real problem with devotional practices – until I engaged in them. A year ago, I couldn't string two words together coherently, or join up the dots. Something has changed, which is remarkable. It has happened through devotion, deep appreciation, and trust – and a sense of longing: a connection of some sort was created.

I'm getting the feeling that it is happening to a lot of people, and I'm just saying be careful of exaggerating or imagining because this could obscure a pure, silent message.
This message cannot be held on to, or “claimed” in any way, because in claiming, the message can be intercepted and will produce pride.

Apart from meditation, prayer is important as a means of clarifying one's own mind for the benefit of all sentient beings. Maybe it's being a conduit...but I don't like putting labels on things. Sticking a label on yourself is claiming, and the right place for those labels is in the bin. Throw them away!

Pie'n'eal, I read what you wrote a few times and please assist me in better understanding. Was it before or after your experience of devotion that you couldn't string two words together coherently, or join up the dots? And the devotion you refer to, was it as a result of participating in a spiritual experience or event? And you say a connection of some sort was created.

If it's not too personal, a connection to what?

I was going to make some comment about communication skills, but I think that would be off the path of what your addressing. Perhaps not. At this point I'm not sure.

Tony
11th February 2012, 20:49
Dear JP11,


Personal experiences are not easy to discuss in public or relevant, because I would have to use Buddhist terminology, and that might confuse people. I will one day talk about the events that led up to this little realisation, but I was having a pretty tough time accepting certain things.

But I think it is important to share, for the benefit of others, who might think spirituality is far too above them. It is who we are. The process is to look at the ordinary and is not at all mysterious.

It was to do with vajrayana practice and devotion. In a long month long retreat of sitting 10 hours a day, there was a realisation that the three qualities of our being are connected to the three poisons, and the three building blocks of the physical universe.

This meant a great deal to me, because of the inner questions I was asking. Gradually I grew more confident in explaining the significance, which is still dawning on me, the words just come.

I am in fact as thick as two short planks, with very little education, and am definitely not awake...yet! Just a little less thick.

RunningDeer
11th February 2012, 21:40
Thanks for the heartfelt message, nf857. I agree with the missing voice inflections. At times, things can be misunderstood. And those who shy away from conversation spoken through the heart (not the kissy face kind), it's just too intense for them. They project onto you and door closes tight shut.

Tarka the Duck
12th February 2012, 11:21
@Pie


I am in fact as thick as two short planks, with very little education, and am definitely not awake...yet! Just a little less thick.

Dear Slightly-Less-Thick-Than-You-Used-To-Be

It seems to me that we are all on individual paths because of our individual karma and afflictive emotions which have to be worked through.
Therefore we will question reality in our own way, and as we get an inkling of some sort of answer, another question will arise...until we are totally satisfied and at peace with ourselves - and everyone else.

Yours
A Fellow Thicky

Tony
12th February 2012, 11:37
@Pie


I am in fact as thick as two short planks, with very little education, and am definitely not awake...yet! Just a little less thick.

Dear Slightly-Less-Thick-Than-You-Used-To-Be

It seems to me that we are all on individual paths because of our individual karma and afflictive emotions which have to be worked through.
Therefore we will question reality in our own way, and as we get an inkling of some sort of answer, another question will arise...until we are totally satisfied and at peace with ourselves - and everyone else.

Yours
A Fellow Thicky



Dear Thickynugget,

It is obvious that we all are at different capacities. Which does not mean, better or worse!
It is just where we are as individuals right now. We just happen to be in the same place at the same time, viewing the scene slightly differently.

It could be likened to sport, but here we are not competing with others, only with how we were in the past.

There could be much joy if we do not pull too heavily in opposite directions.... just a bit is OK!

Yours I am thicker than you,
Tony

9eagle9
12th February 2012, 13:52
But I think it is important to share, for the benefit of others, who might think spirituality is far too above them. It is who we are. The process is to look at the ordinary and is not at all mysterious.

Worth repeating.

Tony
19th February 2012, 08:27
Why not to exaggerate.

If we look within our mind, and find that we are not unhappy or indifferent, then we must be happy!
To take unhappiness and indifference out of the equation, the remainder is happiness, pure and simple.

In the writings of this so-called author, the words “merely” “just” and “barely” are used quite often. This is to indicate a subtle looking.
If the looking is done too consciously, it can become conceptual. One can have too much mindfulness (mindfulness is merely to remind us, and then we have to drop the mindfulness) .

Meditation is merely knowing, so when we are meditating, it means we are coming out of not knowing (when meditation is done properly...).
But we don't have to over know.
Just barely know. Barely be.
A sort of in-between state: a non-state.

Why is this important?
Because if it is turned into something that seems to be unattainable, we will give up.
If it feels like a “state” that has to be achieved and held on to, that is exhausting and can cause feelings of conceit and pride.

We rest in an effortless state.
Quite ordinary!
Quiet and ordinary!

Meditation is not a doing activity.
It is a being activity.
It is important to gain confidence in this, and when we are confident, no outside force can disturb us.
That is our universal right.

Whatever occurs in the mind – dullness, confusion, excitement, pride – is merely an appearance in the mind, which is temporary appearance.
Merely be aware of that which notices these appearances.

And there you are...!

NB I'm supposed to be on a break, but during meditation, ideas pop in and I write them down. And it's good to share...

NB2 When we talk about thoughts, that can be considered to be a bad thing. This is incorrect!
Thoughts can merely be distractions: if we follow the thought it will turn into thinking – and then thinking takes over. So it is a distraction.
But as we proceed with the practice of meditation, thoughts still arise but they don't linger - and sometimes (sorry if this sounds a bit mysterious!) the thoughts are merely a reflection of essence. That is what I am trying to describe now...

RunningDeer
19th February 2012, 13:44
This post is removed because may not have fit this thread.

Tarka the Duck
19th February 2012, 15:32
"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"


Hi, my name is Paula, and I’m a collector-holic. I’m coming clean. Before the invention of eBooks, I was a collector of the paper kind. Piles of them. I found that eBooks is not the true solution either, but I'll leave that discussion for another time.

How about you? Is your stuff beginning to feel more like anchors? No, I’m not going to suggest that you lighten your load. Heck, you can even have some of my stuff, if it makes you feel more secure. Because that’s what I want for you. Security means opportunity to feel the freedom and joy. And that my friend helps you, and me and everyone else.

These were some of the questions I had to ask my self. So I pass this list on to you so you can have one more thing to collect. Have you in the past or recently:

-purchase a larger home/apartment to store your stuff?
-taken on monthly payments for off site storage for your stuff?
-added a new addition on your home for your stuff?
-purchased a carport kit garage because there’s no room in your two car garage?
-purchased a stand alone building for your property?
-hired someone to build an stand alone building for your property?
-attached a mother-in-law apartment to your home, but don't have a mother-in-law?
-bribed your kids with Xbox 360 and iPhones to share a room in exchange to free up a room for your stuff?
-own a moldy box collection filled with things you have no idea because the magic marker has faded?
-rubric-cube configuration of boxes stacked with middle boxes of stuff getting the silent treatment?
-petrified mice entombed because they failed the cardboard maze of stuff?
-or how about a missing child or pet?

Lastly, if you find you have a line item budget that includes yearly moving expenses, or security deposit for first month and last month rent, or boxes chasing you in your dreams, it might be time for a green bag party. I use green so I can’t see what’s made it in. And the second rule don’t look in the bag. Be brave, tie it up. 

Stuff need not become anchors. If stuff provides basic comforts that free you up to become a balanced being then stuff serves it’s purpose. Stuff can be a material tool to get your from Point A to Point B.  Please, don’t forget that your heart holds more than you think. Picture, memories, loved one they are all there for the asking.


Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie

RunningDeer
19th February 2012, 15:58
"Stuff, Stuff and More Stuff"




Hello Paula

I have to ask...is this on the right thread?! Without wishing to appear rude, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!
I've been following this thread, and can't see how this fits in at all...could you please explain what you are trying to say a little more clearly?
Thanks

Kathie
My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be. Part of becoming Enlightened is to know what is truly need in this 3D human experience.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison. Simply be, simply heart.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.

Tarka the Duck
19th February 2012, 16:23
@Whitecrowblackdeer


My take on “exaggerated feeling” comes from a place of needing to be filled because of emptiness of self. Sometimes, people fill themselves up with the material things rather than to clear their space and open to whom they are without the physical identifiers how many, how much, how often. Just simply be.

And also, what’s most important is held in the heart. All material successes and toys and things, pales in comparison.

If this doesn’t fit the thread, I’d have no problem removing it.

I wondered, as I read your thread, who you were talking to. There seemed such an emphasis on the acquisition of material "wealth", and I wasn't sure whether you were using this as a metaphor or not.

The size of someone's house, and advice about how to get rid of our accumulated junk…are you being literal here?

But this thread is all about inner work, which is very subtle. About how easy it is to get carried away with exaggerations of our knowledge, our abilities, our ineptitude… Can't quite see how the "collector-holic" theme fits in :o

Apologies if this is a finely-honed analogy that I am missing completely!

ktlight
19th February 2012, 16:44
I am in fact as thick as two short planks, with very little education, and am definitely not awake...yet! Just a little less thick.

It's funny how we describe ourselves. I, personally, would say you are extremely intelligent and very humble.

Maia Gabrial
19th February 2012, 18:36
Another way to look at it is: In prayer, I speak and God listens. In meditation, God speaks and I listen.

Simple, yet elegant!.