The need for recognition

[Star1111]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel despair when people talk about the (perceived) good they have done for or to others?

IMO when someone does something for someone else they shouldn’t expect a thank you (although a thank you is always nice). They shouldn't strive to be recognised for doing good.

Nor should they expect others to comment on their good deed or worse of all imo TELL people about the good they have just done.

Why is it that some people have to talk about the care they give or the good deeds that they do to and for others?

Imo the path to enlightenment is to give of thyself, and to give of thyself without needing recognition or reward.

I see people all the time, puff out their chests when they talk about something they did that was kind or helpful to others.

I see them coquettishly smile when someone highlights the good deed or kindness they have shown.

Is it needing confirmation of being a good person?

Is it Ego?

Is it insecurity?

Am I being unjust? I don’t know. :(


What I do know is that we ALL do it and when I do it I observe it and don’t like it!!

I’m trying very hard not to find delight in being recognised for doing good.

I find it irritating when someone talks about the good they have done or how wonderful they are because of the good they have done.

Am I a hypocrite then? :eek:

Your thoughts.

LOVE to you all.

[Sidney]

That is sheer NARCISSISM! It bugs me to. When people do that they scream " Look at WONDERFUL me me me". I have people in my personal life that constantly pat themselves on the back, and announce they have done this or that, and I am such a good kind loving giving generous bla bla. I struggle to tie my tongue, because I want to tell them they are narcissistic and self absorbed. But I don't (because I'm so wonderful, LOL kidding). But I do feel embarrassed for them.

[Lost Soul]

Unless used for teaching, bragging about good deeds undoes the goodness of the actor.

[another bob]

"In order to cut through the ambition of ego, we must understand how we set up me and my territory, how we use our projections as credentials to prove our existence. The source of the effort to confirm our solidity is an uncertainty as to whether or not we exist. Driven by this uncertainty, we seek to prove our own existence by finding a reference point outside ourselves, something with which to have a relationship, something solid to feel separate from. But the whole enterprise is questionable if we really look back and back and back. Perhaps we have perpetrated a gigantic hoax?

The hoax is the sense of the solidity of I and other. This dualistic fixation comes from nothingness. In the beginning there is open space, zero, self-contained, without relationship. But in order to confirm zeroness, we must create one to prove that zero exists. But even that is not enough; we might get stuck with just one and zero. So we begin to advance, venture out and out. We create two to confirm one's existence, and then we go out again and confirm two by three, three by four and so on. We set up a background, a foundation from which we can go on and on to infinity. This is what is called samsara, the continuous vicious cycle of confirmation of existence. One confirmation needs another confirmation needs another ...

The attempt to confirm our solidity is very painful. Constantly we find ourselves suddenly slipping off the edge of a floor which had appeared to extend endlessly. Then we must attempt to save ourselves from death by immediately building an extension to the floor in order to make it appear endless again. We think we are safe on our seemingly solid floor, but then we slip off again and have to build another extension. We do not realize that the whole process is unnecessary, that we do not need a floor to stand on, that we have been building all these floors on the ground level.

There was never any danger of falling or need for support. In fact, our occupation of extending the floor to secure our ground is a big joke, the biggest joke of all, a cosmic joke. But we may not find it funny: it may sound like a serious double cross."

~~from "Cosmic Joke", Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

:yo:

[markpierre]

Recognizing it in other people and caring one way or the other is sort of playing the same game.

[eileenrose]

Hi star1111,
whom are you referring to?
Anyone in particular that you feel is not demonstrating your values?

I think a forum gives us a chance to see many viewpoints and therefore gives us a safer than usual place to screw up.
I know I admitted I was wrong too many times to count. But in a big forum, no one seemed to mind (and of course, you don't actually have to apologize in public...people tend
to forget what you write.....so it is a lame sort of forgiveness that you get....but what the heck).
That's why I like forums, myself.

No better place to be egotistical and then later, realize it.

[Star1111]

Thank you all for your comments so far.

Dear Lost Soul, you hit the nail on the head for me, thank you !!

eileenrose, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, it was a general observation. In terms of values I think giving of thyself without need to have reward or recognition is a good value to have imo. For me egoism is not a good thing to have or demonstrate.

markpierre - can you explain further your comment if you would like to. It intrigues me. :)

Thanks to you all, it is good to know that I am not alone in this feeling :)

[eileenrose]

just a comment (in general)

"For me egoism is not a good thing to have or demonstrate."

I am not sure where it became wrong for people to have egos. We all have them.
They are what they are.

If you are against anything, like if someone says 'don't think of a carrot', guess what, you can't stop thinking about a carrot (I love that example).

So ego, no ego....doesn't matter. We still have one and it needs to be admitted too.

anyway, just talking to myself
"

[markpierre]

markpierre - can you explain further your comment if you would like to. It intrigues me. :)


Sure, if it needs explaining. Judgement is of the ego. Why do you need other people to behave according to your values? They must be lacking something that they seem to
need to compensate for. Maybe you can provide it?
Try this; don't have an opinion.

[Explodey]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel despair when
Is it needing confirmation of being a good person?

Is it Ego?

Is it insecurity?

Am I being unjust? I don’t know. :(


What I do know is that we ALL do it and when I do it I observe it and don’t like it!!

I’m trying very hard not to find delight in being recognised for doing good.

I find it irritating when someone talks about the good they have done or how wonderful they are because of the good they have done.

Am I a hypocrite then? :eek:

Your thoughts.

LOVE to you all.

Ego - is not a dirty word.
Is not ego the feeling of being important?
Important enough to exist?
Important enough to to feel?
Important enough to have an opinion?
We are all be guilty of this, and the many other crimes it takes to be truly human...
We are all hypocrites together... that is our journey.
Separation is the ego - Oneness is the sacrifice of ego.
Sacrifice is hard.
Let those who speak of good, speak.
Let those who feel good, feel.

Thank you for awakening me!

X

[Star1111]

Thanks for the clarity markpierre and for me, yes, it did need explaining.

The need for recognition in the way I have highlighted is for me something that irritates. I must look further into why it does. :) I can only tell you that it evokes a sense of annoyance and mild disgust when people highlight the good they have done or take pleasure in receiving praise for what they have done for others.

I will look deeper into this and observe................ without judgement.

A learning curve for sure and I thank you all for allowing me to think about things in a different way.

That's not to say I will agree, but I will think about it.

As far as having an opinion....... I'm not a zombie or a robot therefore I will have an opinion as I am a mind, body unit, a human being ............ we all do. Whether we 'should' have an opinion or not, is another topic.

To quote Plato (and my signature) "Thinking: The talking of the soul with itself”

LOVE to you all.

[nf857]

It does not bother me, ive dealt with it all my life, & it always makes me chuckle, worse is when people moan about their problems, which are so insignificant, ive learn to let that one go now too, ive always been a listener, so rightfully i do hear a lot of peoples problems, sometimes its just nice to be asked what yours may be? Which a lot of the time when they hear mine, they say OMG & hears me moaning about this & your suffering so much......its nice to enlighten people if that's what enlightning is, i feel it is as it lightens your load .....if you like lol!!!

Ive never really had an ego, im certainly not narssistic, i keep everything bottled up & im a martyr, so i expect to be burned, ive learnt to stop blaming myself and others for this, its just the way i am, im not self-centered, & it took years for me to realise people were walking all over me, & abusing me, i did used to blame myself for everything, ive since learnt, people just are the way the are, its the way they are made, you can't change people, people have to want to change themselves.

We all have some form of 'ego' i suppose as that is how we identify ourselves with others, however there is positives and negatives with 'ego' its the old duality game again, positives is that you learn from your mistakes, you accept when you go wrong, you treat people how you want to be treated, all the parables, & morals we should live life by, i think the realisation comes from which duality is present, when you stop blaming others or yourself, you transcend the ego, there is no duality. You stop trying to understand others & you just be yourself, whoever that may be, nobody in the entire universe, including consiousness itself is perfect, thats why love/light messages are not perfect, as they teach the ego, there is know personal responsibilty, it gets lost in translation. If you know yourself enough, you know you are a pure being, & thats all you need to know everyday of you life. Once you stop looking and trying to understand everything, & everybody, & just are, this is when 'enlightenment' happens.

I.E None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, we all learn and grow from them, or stay stuck. Ive learnt if somebody is annoying me, i just stop a conversation full stop, its different on here, as you do get to say things you would not normally say, without any responsiblity, id be lieing if i said id not had the occasional disagreement on here with people, i think the key is to get to the bottom of the issues that are bothering both parties. Anger is a useless comodity, pain is not, you can vent anger at somebody, however are you thinking of the pain that causes the other person, regardless of who was right/wrong, as from both perspectives they are both right, ive learnt there is no real right or wrong, in the true sense of the word, i.e if i kill somebody the worse person to suffer from that is me. I have to live with the consequences, just an example, hope in making sense, im on strong meds atm, so if im not you can excuse me, oh that reminds me, another thing that used to annoy me so much is people being presumptious or making assumptions - which comes into judgement, our brains have been conditioned to judge people on how the look, dress, speak, etc, i was never like this, ive always seen the good in everybody, my mum used to say 'oh nicola, you are so naive love', well i guess i am in a sense, in a sense im not, there is good in everybody, bad people are a product usually of some psychologial disorder, bad parenting, abuse/neglect from childhood etc etc, but i would heal the world if i could, thats just me lol!!! So where i was going with this, oh yes, my meds that im on, i could just imagine presumptious minds now thinking ooh shes a crackpot on meds, no im not on those type of meds, i have to be sedated for pain, not psychological disorder, so again if none of this is making sense, i appoligise now lol xxx

[PurpleLama]

I find that there are many circumstances where it is appropriate, laudable even, to describe one's own practice of service to others. It can be seen as being instructive and inspirational, or as a challenge to raise the bar on one's own practice. To be sure, the are those who might do so for the sake of recognition, for status or respect, but to say that anyone doing so must be for this reason alone is to do a great injustice to all the wayshowers, for those who seek to serve others by also helping those who seek the same. How can one teach if not by example?

[Fundy Gemini]

@ nf857 > I really resonate with everything you say

@ markpierre > I also resonate with what you are saying and wanted to add this: you said "judgment is ego" and I would also add that "jealousy is ego" as well .. and I think both are at work in the answer as to why one would feel irritated or vexed that some people like to broadcast and receive accolades for deeds well done, while in truth, many good people do wonderful deeds every day without notice or thanks -

@ star1111 > I resonate very much with your dilemma as well! Of course, being a parent is a good life-lesson in the answer to this: children are often the greatest example of being able to take without notice or thanks of the giver (parents) and at the same time needing much acknowledgement for their own deeds well-done. So following with that analogy, I try (and it's HARD at times) to look at those adults who behave like children and try to think of them as my own child... As a parent we do not hesitate to lift-up own child, and we are happy to earnestly celebrate their achievements with them because we LOVE them -and- we know it helps them grow, and eventually they (hopefully) do become aware of the importance of what their parent (or significant person who encouraged them) role was in their lives, and by that example they continue the pattern in their own lives etc.

So, the secret boils down to love and acceptance, realizing we are all one family, at different levels of growth. Of course - it's much easier to SAY than to DO .. :D .. but that is my philosophy anyway (realizing that nobody can be expected to be perfect, so don't be hard on yourself ) Trying is the main thing, and being aware of when and why we fail, and working on it ...) We are all a work in progress ...

[9eagle9]

Yes there's a marked difference between pride in accomplishment which I experience daily even if it just getting the laundry done....

And pride based on something hollow or a means to be superior for no discenrable reasons other than to prop up a loss sense of self value. ...is the ego at work.

And at the end of the day there is always going to be someone who perceives me as attempting to act better than them because I got all my laundry done. Chances are ....this is because their laundry isn't done....lol. Their probelm, not mine, my laundry doesn't affect them one way or the other and this their way of being involved in something that has nothing to do with them at all. It unusual to see mechanism of "we are greatness, of God" and then everyone clustering in this box where non-greatness is venerated, be modest, be humble, be demure--so Victorian....lol. It is as artificial as people who are chest pounding to hide their loss of self.

Anything can be perceived as bragging depending on how wounded the observer is.

Knowing how easily damaged people are about accomplishments, and this is all conditioning prompted in the public education system where, I don't blame people for keeping their triumphs to themselves. And neither do I care if they express them. One way or the other it has nothing to do with me other than, If we are all made of the same stuff, then if they achieve greatness everyone can. It's very inspiring, and it has nothing to do with me. It's a knee jerky mechanism 'because they triiumpehed I must be lacking somehow..." HUH?

False modesty its based in the same mechanism as ego pride. See how humble I am. It's all fear based. Pride cometh before a fall, so people fear pride in accomplishment ;they expect to be punished for it. I personally find that greatness, if you get the fear out of it, perpetrates itself you ride the wave of accomplishment. I see that a lot in healing communities, they want a certificate to 'show' they are a healer not realizing a person develops as a healer through accomplishment.



I find that there are many circumstances where it is appropriate, laudable even, to describe one's own practice of service to others. It can be seen as being instructive and inspirational, or as a challenge to raise the bar on one's own practice. To be sure, the are those who might do so for the sake of recognition, for status or respect, but to say that anyone doing so must be for this reason alone is to do a great injustice to all the wayshowers, for those who seek to serve others by also helping those who seek the same. How can one teach if not by example?

[nf857]

Knowing how easily damaged people are about accomplishments, and this is all conditioning prompted in the public education system where, I don't blame people for keeping their triumphs to themselves. And neither do I care if they express them. One way or the other it has nothing to do with me other than, If we are all made of the same stuff, then if they achieve greatness everyone can. It's very inspiring, and it has nothing to do with me. It's a knee jerky mechanism 'because they triiumpehed I must be lacking somehow..." HUH?

False modesty its based in the same mechanism as ego pride. See how humble I am. It's all fear based. Pride cometh before a fall, so people fear pride in accomplishment ;they expect to be punished for it. I personally find that greatness, if you get the fear out of it, perpetrates itself you ride the wave of accomplishment. I see that a lot in healing communities, they want a certificate to 'show' they are a healer not realizing a person develops as a healer through accomplishment.



All so true, i had an abusive father who was like a sergaent major growing up in his house, was learning the act of survial in the true sense of the word, i learnt to not be effected by his blows, & kicks, or should my sub-consious did, however the real damage was the pschylogical traumas, i.e your lazy, you fat, your worth nothing, you dont amount to anything, you will never be anything or amount to anything, funny how these scars are the ones that can effect you the most in a negative way, since getting so ill, this is the very conditioning that got me so ill in the first place, i became anorexic, work-aholic, went to the gym everyday, never relaxed or enjoyed myself, know why, cos i was trying to live up to what my father wanted me to be, since realising he never meant these words, it was probably something he heard as a child, unfortunatly i was his victim being the 1st child, but in way fortunatly as im glad my brother never got the same treatment, & i manage to protect him a lot & my mum. So its been a great lesson in life, even if ive been the one to suffer.

Reality was my dad felt threatened by me as i could stand up to him & i was not brainwashed like my mum and brother through fear, i didnt fear him like they did, i would stand my ground, my dad found this a threat. The blows got that bad i had to hide out for over months before going back to school once, my mum and dad hid my away saying i had glandular fever, my nose was broke in two places and my eye socket was the size of a melon, whats considerable here, is that even though all this damage was done, i can still love him with him with all my heart, its he who that backs down from me, its me that makes him quiver in his boots, as there is nothing he can do to me, hes tried it all, & he lost. The beatings became that in-effectual i used to laugh at them, this was a grown man on a child, who was very overweight, & even with his full force he could not knock me out, yes i saw a few stars, but never could knock me truely down, id still get back up to him, he couldnt stand it, he tired himself out eventually and walked away. True courage and strength comes from inside people not outside, remember this. Now when my dad sees me he would never say he is proud, but i know he is, he just cant express it to me, hes incapable of love, as he never want to get help for his issues, he still the same old broken down man, love to him, is buying somebody something, or doing somebody a favour so he can use against them later, or by manipulation, or blackmail, he uses al the tactics even now, its just so funny how he still tries them on me, i dont say anything, i dont have to anymore, he knows. He knows hes crazy psychotic, schzioprehnia/bipolar disorder is his problem, as he knows hes got it, he just want get help for it. He is the perfect example of DUALITY, one minute so NICE, next minute so EVIL. I just keep him at arms length. If he comes for a cuddle i welcome him with open arms, however i know hes never going to feel it, his guilt will eat away at him forever for the hurt pain and suffering hes caused his family, at least the cycle of abuse has stopped with me, i havent got my own child, i have a stepson, i constantly recognise my conditioning when i parent him, the one thing ive never done is raise my voice, slam a door, ive never laid a finger on him.

The one lesson i had to learn from all this, is to not to become too hard myself, & if you met me you would never know id been through all this, im very femine and petite, and well spoken, despite the odds, also to trust people again, we have to learn to trust people and love people un-conditionally. Thats why conditioning of the mind works, as it conditions, not un-conditions the mind xxx

[markpierre]

Thanks for the clarity markpierre and for me, yes, it did need explaining.

The need for recognition in the way I have highlighted is for me something that irritates. I must look further into why it does. :) I can only tell you that it evokes a sense of annoyance and mild disgust when people highlight the good they have done or take pleasure in receiving praise for what they have done for others.

I will look deeper into this and observe................ without judgement.

A learning curve for sure and I thank you all for allowing me to think about things in a different way.

That's not to say I will agree, but I will think about it.

As far as having an opinion....... I'm not a zombie or a robot therefore I will have an opinion as I am a mind, body unit, a human being ............ we all do. Whether we 'should' have an opinion or not, is another topic.

To quote Plato (and my signature) "Thinking: The talking of the soul with itself”

LOVE to you all.

Sure, I appreciate what you're saying. You're on the right track. The fact that it irritates you is the thing you need to be looking at. It's you that suffers the irritation, so it seems, and you seem to have recognized that it's your issue, not the people who are irritating you.

Everyone is in their own time-line somewhere in their own personal evolution, doing exactly what they need to be doing. I would suggest that you'd find your peace by leaving them to it.
I don't see a difference between someone else needing recognition, and myself looking for validation in not needing recognition. I must, or it wouldn't occur to me to make the comparison. It's a contradiction.
Something in me is incomplete and gets irritated, or I'd just continue on freely giving. Yes? No?
So how do I solve that? Take responsibility?

It has to have a deeper cause, or I wouldn't have a judgement. It just wouldn't occur to me. So it's me working out my own issues in the freedom of my mind to do that. I wouldn't regard it as freedom,I'd regard it as an imperative.
And grant that imperative and freedom to everyone else, whatever it appears they're doing.

You might get hung up a little when you're considering a drug addict, or a violent criminal. But why would you need to? It's not about right or wrong, and knowing the difference. It's about judgement. How do my observations bind me, or set me free.

Whats the purpose in anything? There is a purpose in everything.
For example I'm an alcoholic. The experience of alcoholism, as much or more than the experience of recovery, was a driving condition in my life. What did it drive me to? Ways of seeing and understanding that wouldn't be available in any other way...for me. But for my purposes. What are they? I won't guess, and you couldn't.

That's not a generalization, other than everyone needs whatever experience is supplied to them, for a purpose that is none of anyone elses business.

I hate to do this, but "judge not, lest ye be judged" is a mind observing itself in relationship with everything around it, relative to the judgements that it holds about everything.
Are they freeing or restricting? You feel acutely the effects of your judgements. What sort of judgements would you be willing to share? Guilt or innocence?

Giving unconditionally is giving without conditions right? So where does unconditionality end and conditions begin? That's what you've illustrated. Where you are unwilling to give.

Opinions are entirely subjective and transient. Uncertain. Why do we seek out others who 'share' our opinion, unless we need them to be validated somehow?
Forming opinions is not what Plato was regarding as thinking. 'Reasoning' is more appropriate.
That's how your different than a robot. You can change your mind. You can recognize (if you choose to) what, in your opinion forming, is conditioning or 'programing', and what is not.

Here, do some reasoning: Our opinions change with every new experience and every new scrap of information. So how valid are they? Are they worth defending?
They're derived from a limited viewpoint, and I would hope they'd change as the viewpoint expands, trusting that the viewpoint will expand.
Consider the infinite volume of information that's unknown about any given issue that an opinion is formulated without.
Unless I'm 'of the opinion' that my opinions are basically meaningless and define for me my limitations, I'm living in a fantasy. That my opinion has value.

So why do you think your own opinions have value? They're not solid or certain. They're valuable to you because they help you locate and establish yourself in this transient moment that's interpreted by the past.
It's a function of ego, which isn't a bad thing, but entirely untrustworthy. It's job is to define and protect a 'you'. Otherwise what would you be?
They also define for you, your limits of understanding. It's nothing to do with the truth of any moment or any situation or any other person.

It's entirely possible to regard opinions (mine, yours and anyone elses), as meaningless. They're just part of your current experience. The experience of changing your opinion, might be very impacting.
But it won't validate opinions.

I'm concerned that the more I say, the harder it can be to glean the point. I'll leave it there and see how you go with it.

Kind regards

[CD7]

:p ;) :cool: :wizard: :llama: :peep: :brushteeth: :tea: ...i cant stand people who need recognition! :third:

[christian]

from the Dao De Jing:


He who stands on tiptoe
doesn't stand form.
He who rushes ahead
doesn't go far.
He who tries to shine
dims his own light.
He who defines himself
can't know who he really is.
He who has power over others
can't empower himself.
He who clings to his work
will create nothing that endures.

If you want to accord with the Tao,
just do your job, then let go.

* * *

Care about people's approval
and you will be their prisoner.

Do your work, then step back.
The only path to serenity.

[YoungSoul]

I work with helping people everyday while doing this I always keep a smile on my face and sincerely say "you're welcome, have a nice day".
This is enough for me, but to be honest I really love hearing the word "Thanks".

[nf857]

Markpierce- thats a a great post, i agree with everything you have said, due to my own awareness of all these things, im my path in life. The questions posed are great, & we do ask ourselves these questions enough. Only when you start to really understand yourself, to your core, can you even begin to start understanding another. What traits/faults we see in others, we usually have in ourselves. We are all human at the end of the day, we are all of great value, as we are all part of the same thing, whatever that thing is. This is all reflection, upon ourselves, like if we say ooh i hate that about somebody, its usually some part of ourselves that we are really not liking. If we can recognise it in other, that means its got our attention, which means our sub-conscious is telling us this, when you become fully conscious you start to recognise these things. The learning part becomes how to use them to a positive effect rather than negative. Duality, getting rid of the negative. I find the saying 'forgive and forget' quite ironic, as ive always found it easy to forgive somebody, however we don't really ever forget it-do we? More so the more fully consious/aware we become, as to me being fully consious means being aware of your 'Now' which is your past, present, & future all at once. This is why we can never be 'fully consious' as if we were we could not handle it, this is why all the great teachings state 'that you can never become GOD' or 'Fully Consious', i understand this to mean, youd be aware not only of everything eventuality in your own 'Now' but also aware of everybody elses 'Now', i feel sorry for 'GOD' or 'FULL CONSIOUSNESS' i don't know how it copes lol!!! x

[gooty64]

Why does it bother you so much?

Does Dr. Laura still have her call-in radio program?

[nf857]

I work with helping people everyday while doing this I always keep a smile on my face and sincerely say "you're welcome, have a nice day".
This is enough for me, but to be honest I really love hearing the word "Thanks".



Yes certainly the only job i would ever inspire to be be if i could work, would be helping people. What is it you do? There is nothing wrong with wanting to be appreciated for helping people, for me ive found you only really get thanks, if you truely have helped somebody, remember the only people who can really help is the people themselves, they can only truely help themsevles, so you may guide them, give advice, etc, but you can only cure yourself from a psychological perspective that is, of course people have to want the help, to truely be receiving it, so thanks comes from those who appreciate the guides/advice we give them, if no thanks comes, its because people are not ready for that help, as they are not ready to help themselves, this is different if its a real physical problem, i.e being a nurse, or a doctor, or a surgeoun, this goes into saving lives, or saving body parts, not helping people. People can only really help themselves. I could go to Africa to give aid to people, i would be helping a community's welfare, not an individual self, if this makes any sense xxx

[Star1111]

Thank you all for your WONDERFUL posts and for really taking the time out to help me with this.
All of your posts have given me food for thought and I will think on.

I'm always open to listening and learning and I will read all your posts again, when I'm not rushing to make a long journey on a Friday night !! :) can't wait !!

Be back soon, again, thank you all so very much. :)