The ending of time by j. Krishnamurti & dr. David bohm

[Bo Atkinson]

The link below features free books. This book might be interesting.

THE ENDING OF TIME BY J. KRISHNAMURTI & DR. DAVID BOHM
Posted on | February 23, 2012 | No Comments
The Ending of Time is a huge compilation of the transcribed talks between J. Krishnamurti and Dr. David Bohm. Bohm was a quantum physicist who contributed to theoretical physics, philosophy of mind, neuropsychology and he is recognized as one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century. Krishnamurti will be known by most readers of this site as this book concludes our collection of the complete works of his teachings. Download The Ending of Time here (690 pages):
The Ending of Time

Free pdf (real text, not photos of text) download at-- http://www.holybooks.com/

(I'll try listening to to this today on mp3 player... Hmmm It generated a 714 MB file, a couple day's listening).

[ktlight]

By reading through all of J. KRISHNAMURTI & DR. DAVID BOHM debates, is what woke me up and freed me of fear.

[gooty64]

Note to self:

The answer is more likely in this conversation between Krishnamurti and Bohm than in all of the youtube videos combined.

Just read the first 10-20 pages and I found the explanation for why mankind is in conflict.

Thanks wavydome

[eileenrose]

ARticle is excellent! Thanks for the link.
eileen

[Earth Angel]

saw the name Krishnamurti twice today....must be a sign......will check this out......many thanks

[aranuk]

I read that book 25 yrs ago and lent it to a friend and I cannot remember who. A terrific book. I remember the enquiry about when thinking ceases that is intellegence.

A great thinker.

Stan

[aranuk]

Thank you Wavydome I now have my book back!

Stan

[TraineeHuman]

Isn't it wonderful how simple and everyday both Krishnamurti and Bohm manage to make this subject? The subject is nothing less than how to live beyond time, which -- surely -- is really from God's eyeview. It's living from the viewpoint of eternity, of immortality. And as they explain, it really is very simple to do. Simple, but not necessarily easy, for many.

At the very least, anybody who reads this and basically understands the general message will see a fascinating truth. Such a person will see that it's undeniable that living from God's point of view is not something very far away but it's something very close to us. If only we can reach out and take it and find a way to live it ourselves. It's so near. It's not unsayable or infinite in some dimension far, far away. It's right here, and the words in this book are pointing straight at it, right next to each of us.

In my opinion this is probably the best of all of Krishnamurti's many books. The truth should be spoken and shared, so thank you very much, Wavydome.

[conk]

Thank you very much. I am eager to read this!

[Quantum Logic]

It's not necessarily that it will end, but that it never truly existed in the first place, except in our limited perception of reality. Time is an illusion that is used to control perception of reality, and that is one of the greatest lessons we must learn- not only how, but why.

QL

[percival tyro]

Thanks wavydome I've bookmarked it.

[Bo Atkinson]

I would be thankful to discuss this dialog at length, having now listened through to the last pages. It seems to fit-well within the depths of Avalon.

(I converted the text to mp3 audio to allow listening in my rural and rustic work days, this winter. I wear a tiny mp3 player on my collar which has a speaker. Which is much less troublesome than ear phones. It is a convenience for work+study although it is not possible to 'rewind' short steps like the old tape players. This method is still a little clumsy and the reader-voice seems to miss most of the chapter heading. Possibly because these are not plain text? )

Where to start. This 1980 book is not about 2012 or the global madness of today. Indeed it is not promoting fear at all. It is more perhaps about the gradual east-west dialog, of the period. Assorted varieties of Yoga were introduced much earlier but were not academically discussed. Alan Watts is credited for academically introducing Buddhism to California in the 1960s. Minds were freeing up from WWII devastation of the 1940s. Cultural communications were booming with the introduction of the transistor. (A precursor to the silicon chip and also a namesake for the popular portable radios of the 60's). People had time and means to explore. Deeper thought was actually becoming very cool, among some of the young. East-west appreciation was growing, while the TPTBs were false-flagging the Viet Nam war, (1960s). The 1970s seemed tranquil enough with a meritocracy promising hope.

The-Ending-of-Time dialog explores reality with a multi-disciplinary approach. I love that aspect of using many mind skills all together. Physics has long projected ends of planets and stars, far into the future. In the 1980s some popularized tidbits from physics speculated on time. The mythologies and sacred texts of the wider world were also gaining attention as somewhat-addressable, or even comparable within popular science. Bohm and Krishnamurti did not address these concurrent trends directly. Instead they dialoged in a very personal-feeling sense. This personal opinion-sharing cut through unwanted densities of formalism.

Krishnamurti nominally provided just a little background on Yoga and Brama. To indicate that various popular adoptions of these terms miss deeper meanings. He was politely-dismissive of the empowerment-seeking-yoga, (my quick term). He did mention his many lifetimes on this planet, with many life-styles experienced and now what? Where do we go? Where does time go? What is it that goes or survives it all? Bohm seemed to provide the western scientific sounding board for all this. Saying most scientists would willingly observe all propositions, but expect sooner conclusions or outcomes. Then say, call us agin when you have something clear to show.

It seemed they both say that the human brain development, over epics of time, is key. ( I haven't found who the person "N" is. DB & B= Bohm, K= Krishnamurti).

Page 227: "DB: Well, it is the function of this occupied brain - that it is
occupied with itself and it doesn't listen.
N: In fact one of the things is that this occupation starts very
early. When you are young it is very powerful, and it continues all
through your life. How can we, through education, make this clear?
K: The moment you see the importance of not being occupied -
see that as a tremendous truth - you will find ways and methods to
help educationally, creatively. No one can be told, copy and
imitate, for then he is lost."

Page 585. "B: .... - we were discussing the other day that when the brain is kept busy with intellectual activity and thought, then it does not decay and shrink, you see.
K: Yes, as long as it is thinking, moving, living.
B: Thinking in a rational way, then it remains strong.
K: Yes. That is what I want to get at too. Which is, as long as it

is functioning, moving, thinking rationally..
B:.. it remains strong. If it starts irrational movement then it

breaks down. Also if it gets caught in a routine it begins to die.
K: That's it. That is, if the brain is caught in a routine, either the

mediation routine, or the routine of the priests..
B: Or the daily life of the farmer.
K:.. the farmer and so on and so on, it must gradually become

dull.
B: Not only that but it seems to shrink.
K: To shrink physically.
B: Perhaps some of the cells die.
K: That is what we were discussing the other day, yes. To

shrink physically. And the opposite to that is this eternal occupation with business - as a lawyer, as a doctor as a - you follow? - a scientist, thinking, thinking, thinking. And we think that also that prevents shrinking.

B: Well it does. Well at least experience seems to show it does, the measurements they made.

K: Yes, it does too. That's it. Excuse the word 'farmer'.

B: Whatever it is, the routine clerical worker and anybody who does a routine job.

K: Anybody.

B: Yes, his brain starts to shrink at a certain age. Now that is what they discovered and just as the body not being used the muscles begin to lose their..

K:.. so take lots of exercise!
B: Well, they say exercise the body and exercise the brain.
K: Yes. If it is caught in any pattern, any routine, any directive

too, it must shrink.
B: It is not clear why. Could you go into what makes it shrink,

you see.
K: That is fairly simple. It is repetition.
B: Well repetition is mechanical and doesn't really use the full

capacity of the brain.
K: One has noticed the people who have spent years and years

in meditation are the most dull people on earth. And also those lawyers and professors and all the rest of them, you can see them, there is ample evidence of all that.

N: The only thing that article seems to say that rational thinking postpones senility. But rational thinking itself becomes a pattern at some time.

B: Well it might. They didn't carry it that far you see, but rational thinking pursued in a narrow area might become part of the pattern too.

Please feel free to add something to this thread which i also plan to continue.

wavydome

http://harmoniouspalette.com/LogoPost.jpg

[Kindred]

It seemed they both say that the human brain development, over epics of time, is key. For relevance to forum-dramatics of today, the following may be relevant. ( I haven't found who the person "N" is. DB & B= Bohm, K= Krishnamurti).

http://harmoniouspalette.com/LogoPost.jpg

It was my reading of D.Bohm's theories and articles that first 'awakened' me, and, ultimately, brought me into a greater understanding of Reality. To read this short excerpt reminds me of an observation I had made - that to Truly Expand our Consciousness, one needs to Continually challenge the body and the mind with New Experiences.

Only by doing so, will the Spirit have the necessary exposure to every alternative to thus allow for it's advancement.

It is this Development of Spirit that is Paramount, and is the primary reason for All Manifestation.

In Unity and Peace

[CD7]

To those of you and you know who u are
Who have extended their greed
Who have taken what they wanted and not what they need
Who have kept the oppressed stranded on their knees
And bled their hearts dry to a crumbling freeze
Penance is thine WAITING FOR THE END OF TIME


I SIMPLY cannot wait for the END of time!

[Bo Atkinson]

I use sort-of-a self-challenging approach too, Kindred. It energized my self-education for multi-disciplined-life. Which helped steer clear from excessive, repetition or a carpal syndrome(my twist)-- As B&K also warn against overly repetitious, full-time routines, all through life.

It does seem reactions follows actions, christinedream7, but who get's the last laugh, at the end of time? Who get's first laugh "next time"? I get to wonder what these men meant by time. B-or-K did say something regarding TPTB or something to that effect, but... In the 1980s, life and "the end of time concept" was very different than today.

Overall, the book was a fun retread of those earlier contexts, from that time.

[CD7]

It does seem reactions follows actions, christinedream7, but who get's the last laugh, at the end of time? Who get's first laugh "next time"? I get to wonder what these men meant by time. B-or-K did say something regarding TPTB or something to that effect, but... In the 1980s, life and "the end of time concept" was very different than today.

Overall, the book was a fun retread of those earlier contexts, from that time.


Who gets ANY laugh...i could care less about. It is the fundamental CHANGE in our experience--TRUE FREEDOM unbridled and NO MORE "next time" that is the goal

[Bo Atkinson]

No offense, i'm just trying to see their meanings. RE 'timeless'

pg 502+
Quote:
K: Yes sir. That is, we start from the same source. 'A' takes one
turn...
B: We are continually starting from the same source, not going
back in time to a source.
K: Just a minute, just a minute.
B: There are two possible ways of taking your statement. One is
to say the source is in time, far back in the past, we started together
and we took different paths. The other is to say the source is
timeless and we are continually taking the wrong turn, again and
again. Right?
K: Yes. We cut out time, therefore it is constantly the wrong
turn.
B: Constantly the wrong turn, yes.
K: Why?
Q: Which means there is the constant possibility of the right
turn.
K: Yes, of course. That's it. We are getting a little more clear.
That is if we say the source from which we all began, then we are
caught in time.
B: You can't go back.
K: You can't go back. That is out. Therefore it is we apparently
are taking the wrong turn all the time.

[Bo Atkinson]

I also wonder a lot about what earth-changes we are engaging in. But K&B suggest we are the ones who must "end time... psychologically..."

page 10

K: You see, I want to abolish time, psychologically. You understand?

DB: Yes, I understand.

K: To me that is the enemy. And is that the cause, the origin of man's misery?

DB: This use of time, certainly. Man had to use time for a certain purpose, but he misused it.


page 11

K: Just a minute. I want to go into that a little bit. I am not talking theoretically, personally. But to me the idea of tomorrow doesn't exist psychologically - that is, time as a movement, either inwardly or outwardly.

DB: You mean psychological time?

K: Yes, psychological time, and time outwardly. Now if psychological time doesn't exist, then there is no conflict, there is
no `me', no `I', which is the origin of conflict. Outwardly, technologically man has moved, evolved.

DB: And also in the inward physical structure.

K: The structure, everything. But psychologically we have also moved outward.

DB: Yes, we have focused our life on the outward. Is that what you are saying?

K: Yes. We have extended our capacities outwardly. And inwardly it is the same movement as outwardly. Now if there is no
inward movement as time, moving, becoming more and more, then what takes place? You understand what I am trying to convey?
Time ends. You see, the outer movement is the same as the inward movement.

[Kindred]

D. Bohm says it quite eloquently:

"It is proposed that the widespread and pervasive distinctions between people (race, nation, family, profession, etc., etc.) which are now preventing mankind from working together for the common good, and indeed, even for survival, have one of the key factors of their origin in a kind of thought that treats things as inherently divided, disconnected, and "broken up" into yet smaller constituent parts. Each part is considered to be essentially independent and self-existent."
(David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order)

"The notion that all these fragments is separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion. Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. Thus, as is now well known, this way of life has brought about pollution, destruction of the balance of nature, over-population, world-wide economic and political disorder and the creation of an overall environment that is neither physically nor mentally healthy for most of the people who live in it. Individually there has developed a widespread feeling of helplessness and despair, in the face of what seems to be an overwhelming mass of disparate social forces, going beyond the control and even the comprehension of the human beings who are caught up in it." (David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980)

some related items:
Reality cannot be found except in One single source, because of the interconnection of all things with one another. (Leibniz, 1670)

We are a part of Nature as a whole whose order we follow. (Spinoza, Ethics, 1673)

Source: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-David-Bohm-Holographic-Universe.htm
I particularly like his concept of Implicate and Explicate Order...

In Unity and Peace

[Bo Atkinson]

Wow. Those statements of oneness-wholeness throughout western-thought are great to ponder. That website spaceandmotion is so relevant and brave. Trying to engage academia with banished physicists. I'm glad to push myself, learn more about Bohm. I completely missed his works in that depth (and many other great minds i'm sure). Though debates around wave vs particle have fascinated me, as in unified-field-theorizing. Bohm's standing wave may also harmonizes with Tesla's reconstruced-works in some ways. (Inventive works stolen from humanity, at this point).

Some sort of cosmological-spiritual-fascination got me asking though. What were some published distinctions between particles and waves? What could waves look like interacting together? Could human imagination trace some sort of unified vision of it all? I primarily explored imagination through geometry like this 1995 model).

http://harmoniouspalette.com/rigaton80wGeo.jpg

Geodesics provided helpful tools to explore 'isotropic' (or spherical) radiance, IMO. Spirals provide the classical interaction of electricity and magnetism forming a polarity. Multiple wave polarities and phases as one wave front interested me in that model.

The holographic proposition does appear to offer effective 'compartmentalizations' of the so called 'dimentions' or densities of perceptions. If perception is indeed based on something comparable to video screens. The "maintenance crews of human minds" could at some level switch the 'screen'. Instant access to new perceptions could thus follow.

In contradistinction, the effort of compartmentalizing physics (and all academia for that matter), easily retarded scholarship.

Dot connecting ^__^ for holistic thought . ~wavydome

[take]

Whoa, thanks! Also bump. Gotta check this out sooner than later.

[Sirius White]

Yes, both of them were geniuses.

Bohm understood the true nature of the universe, the Implicate Order.

Don't worry, his research has gone leaps and bounds inside the intelligence communities. So he wasn't forgotten, but its time for people to catch up.

[Bo Atkinson]

...Don't worry, his research has gone leaps and bounds inside the intelligence communities....

Hmm, yesterday i was trying to recollect. Just how the word 'compartmentalization' was used in the Iran-Contra hearings of the Reagan 80's.

They blocked justice with 'compartmentalization'!

The gradual ratcheting to end psychological-time, tighter and tighter, into controlled compartments.

[Muzz]

The link below features free books. This book might be interesting.

THE ENDING OF TIME BY J. KRISHNAMURTI & DR. DAVID BOHM
Posted on | February 23, 2012 | No Comments
The Ending of Time is a huge compilation of the transcribed talks between J. Krishnamurti and Dr. David Bohm. Bohm was a quantum physicist who contributed to theoretical physics, philosophy of mind, neuropsychology and he is recognized as one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century. Krishnamurti will be known by most readers of this site as this book concludes our collection of the complete works of his teachings. Download The Ending of Time here (690 pages):
The Ending of Time

Free pdf (real text, not photos of text) download at-- http://www.holybooks.com/

(I'll try listening to to this today on mp3 player... Hmmm It generated a 714 MB file, a couple day's listening).

Thankyou so much for introducing me to the Holybook.com website.
This alone is incredible -
The Sacred Books of the East – all 50 volumes

Cheers wavydome.

[gooty64]

This thread lead me to this interview with Krishnamurti, Bohm and a David Shainberg. Although at times, the interview is a bit uncomfortable and uneasy to follow, it cuts deep into the message of Krishnamurti and Bohm and friend. Shainberg takes a bit of beating by Krishmurti. I consider it awkward but a great teaching moment.

b5ID588B59k

[Bo Atkinson]

Thanks Muzz. I meant to try another book there but needed suggestion, context of Avalon! especially.
Thanks for the vid Gooty64, It makes me feel acceptable. :wizard:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/AndTheyCalledMeCrazy.jpg

[Sirius White]

...Don't worry, his research has gone leaps and bounds inside the intelligence communities....

Hmm, yesterday i was trying to recollect. Just how the word 'compartmentalization' was used in the Iran-Contra hearings of the Reagan 80's.

They blocked justice with 'compartmentalization'!

The gradual ratcheting to end psychological-time, tighter and tighter, into controlled compartments.

Yes its sad.

I had a friend once ask me how the "big secret" of alien life forms and secret technology was covered up, how could something so big not be known to us?

And you pretty much illuminate how they do it.

Compartmentalization is nothing new, the Vatican and the Church have been doing it for "God" knows how long. That's how they've hidden so much of vital history, and crucial teachings of spirituality (and given the public, that which gave them power over others, same formula used by Industrial, military and Pharmaceuticals).

I feel this is changing now, but I feel actually really bad for those in mainstream science who think they are at the "cutting edge."

[Bo Atkinson]

Well put Sirus, I meant to emphasize that it seemed this was the first time high offices in the USA flaunted the word 'compartmentalize' in live-broadcast court rooms, on public radio, (as an actual defense termanology during proceedings). Perhaps it is isinsignificant though. Prior to that public trial, it had seemed they simply swept things under the rug without saying, ya we done it, we broke laws, but so what, hey it is standard operating procedure. My life has been largely rural and isolated. The Vatican simply twisted 3d logic without admissions of crime, no?

---------much later edit added:

Rather than bump this, i just wanted to add another resource which came to mind:

Web search these for more illuminating contexts:
holographic + "walter russell"
holographic + bohm
bohm + pribram

Russel's graphic work, is currently found on the web as by using google/images.