credulous fake spirituality and blank denial

[joedjemal]

This post is probably going to raise a howl of anger and shrieking but I'm at the point where I don't care.

I was considering leaving Avalon today. Several threads on the forum over the last few weeks have left me feeling like pulling my hair out in frustration.

The problem is all the people who leave their critical thinking faculty at the door and who believe any old insane tripe just because they hear it from some famous name in the so called alternative community whilst denying the very real threats that all life on Earth faces because they don't feel it's true.

There are things happening around us that are obvious, have mountains of evidence backing them up and that are a clear and present danger to the lives of everyone in this community but any time anyone mentions them they're ignored or denied. Things like population, exponential growth, the raging destruction of just about every habitat on the planet, the ongoing mass extinction, caused by our industrial civilisation that is killing off species faster than has ever been known in the past. EVER! It's happening faster than even the mass extinction that killed off 95% of all species on the planet when the Earth turned into a giant snowball.

We're running out of every imaginable resource. The global economic system is collapsing under the weight of its own insanity as we speak. We're ruled by psychopaths that control the media, control all religions including this crazy new age galactic federation do nothing stuff and who are marching us all off to a thermonuclear war which, along with biological weaponry will probably kill almost everybody reading this.

Unless we get our acts together, do the truly spiritual thing and reconnect with our mother Earth. And that means getting your hands dirty and planting things.

But what have we got? We have a religion where you can't point out the problems because according to that religion your noticing it causes them to "manifest". Really? Sounds a bit blame the victim to me. Sounds just like the sorts of things that psychopaths do.

You can't use reason according to this religion because that makes you left brain, unspiritual, not open to your heart centre because spirituality is beyond reason and can't be grasped by it. I don't think so. Sounds like more psychopathic manipulation to me. Sounds like somebody doesn't want you thinking. It's all love and light until you start trying to get to specifics then it's endless ad hominem attacks and claims of being disconnected from the heart the stuff I've come to expect from a significant proportion of those who believe themselves enlightened and superior to others whilst claiming that we are all one.

It's fake. It's like the mink coat christians in the 50s who only went to church to show off their husband's wealth.

I've seen people on this forum believing in and promoting the most preposterous stuff I've ever heard denying all rules for the way the universe works "because it's consciousness and beyond rules"

I don't think so. Consciousness needs a structure to manifest in. And there I use that word in its real sense, become real within this universe with its rules and structure and beautiful complexity.

I'm sick of fake aliens rescuing us that never turn up or even show us what they look like that many believe in because of some pretty contradictory words coming out of a channel.

I'm sick of physically impossible threats like our sun going red giant or Earth becoming a star or the crust slipping around on the mantle or brown dwarfs entering the solar system or "photon belts" (it's protons) or nibiru or all these impossible things which, when you point out their impossibility, you're dismissed as closed minded or "taking the hard path to enlightenment" THERE IS NO EASY PATH feeling good about yourself and shutting out the bad bits of the world isn't enlightenment IT'S DELUSION.

All this crap about the Illuminati being destroyed by white hats or aliens, a new money system won't do a thing to prevent cascading systems failure which has ALREADY STARTED that's what's probably going to kill you.

The rats are deserting the sinking ship because it's sinking not because some imaginary federation is making them leave.

I'm taking a break from the forum for a while. It seems to me it's becoming a waste of my time. I wish you all well. Please get in some extra food. The replicators aren't coming.

[dddanieljjjamesss]

The part that I take for granted, in explaining the way I see things work, is that it takes conscious action to manifest change.
Conscious action can be many, many things. But I've often find that a lot of times, just changing my mind allows me to access channels and pathways in TANGIBLE reality that were perceived as not present before.
I have no doubt that there are things I must struggle with in my life, related to the worldly/universal issues that are here in my experience.
However, I have no doubt that I am taking actions that will lead me to where I need to go, and hopefully I will learn how to attune myself to the life I want to experience.

Some will choose not to 'doubt' the reality they want to see, while not ever making conscious actions to help bring it to fruition.
Some will choose to doubt that there is anything but the reality they are in, but never believe that it can be better and doom themselves to things they see as 'inevitable.'
And some will find balance between what is, and what can be, and do what is in their power to change it, starting with themselves and their perspective.

Each mistake allows me re-evaluate and fine tune my process, and everything is always progress even when it seems like it isn't.
I fully believe and find myself sitting in the spider web of infinite choice. Sometimes it helps to imagine voices from on high, sometimes it helps to be afraid of the demons.

It ain't ever that simple and never ever will be (unless you're not worrying about any of this and just enjoying the ride ;) )

[Orph]

The thing is, you can't let yourself get too discombobulated over what other people do or don't do. Don't get ulcers getting PO'd about other people. Be who you are, believe what is right for you, and then, .................. at some point you sort of have to shrug your shoulder and say "Oh well".

[gooty64]

Joe:
The rats are deserting the sinking ship because it's sinking not because some imaginary federation is making them leave.

Sinking ships always go under.

This boat is sinking.

The human race is not going to conquer the cabal with weapons or Love and Light.

We're sunk.

Really the only chance I see is a precipitating event that causes upheaval and forces everyone to take notice.

What can we do to cause this precipitating event?

I dunno.

Gardening/planting more is something but, it doesn't rescue a sinking ship.

gooty

[joedjemal]

Joe:
The rats are deserting the sinking ship because it's sinking not because some imaginary federation is making them leave.

Sinking ships always go under.

This boat is sinking.

The human race is not going to conquer the cabal with weapons or Love and Light.

We're sunk.

Really the only chance I see is a precipitating event that causes upheaval and forces everyone to take notice.

What can we do to cause this precipitating event?

I dunno.

Gardening/planting more is something but, it doesn't rescue a sinking ship.

gooty

They have to realise it's happening and that it's going to personally affect them first.

It's like the stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining and finally acceptance. Most are still in the denial phase. Anger is brewing. When we finally get to the acceptance stage people will stop trying to keep the old ways going and get on with surviving. I just wish it wasn't taking so long. The slower the collapse is, the more of us will die.

I lost my temper. A relatively rare thing for me. My equilibrium is returning but I don't regret what I said.

[Ascension]

Not to be negative here, but I keep reading that these light beings will not allow a nuclear war. Well, Fukishima is sending the equivalent in radioactive fallout all around the world. It may well result in in genetic changes to our many species over the next 20 years. It conjunction with DU weapons and nuclear plant leaks, nuclear fallout from accidents all will have tragic consequences for all species on the planet. Apparently, we should not be allowed to play with ANYTHING nuclear and yet no off-world/other dimension beings appear to be stepping in to prevent this escalating tragedy.

[jorr lundstrom]

joedjemal, take a walk, kick some stones, and return when you can. Yes, this
ship is going down. I cant do anything about it and neither can you. It makes
me kinda sad when I see so many imto the victim/perpetrator game, ie go
down with the ship, blaming the controllers. Who bye the way also go down
with the ship.
As Bill Ryan said in the Atticus interview, Im kind of a purist myself.

So, better to abandon the game and grow some carrots.

[songsfortheotherkind]

My personal experience is that when I was looking at all the terrible and horrendous things going on in the world, and my spectacularly insignificant ability to do anything about IT ALL (which is one of the deliberate methods of disempowerment, the ALL or NOTHING view), my brain broke and I attempted suicide at the world weary age of 14. For some reason the gun failed to fire and I trudged home, figuring that other things were meant for me. I went through various periods of getting caught up in the 'here's the TRUTH!' 'HERE it is, we're all being farmed and there's not a damn thing we can do about it!!', 'NO, we're all going to die in a NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST and there's nothing we can do about it' which periodically caused my brain to shut down, partly because of my ability to hold very large numbers of seemingly incompatible pieces in my head at any one time. I read Derrick Jensen's works and again became non-functioning, because I have observed, all my life, the absolute impossibility of large numbers of the world's population 'waking up' to any really interesting degree, and all the solutions seemed to hang on just such a requirement. So it all appeared futile and useless and I don't function at all in that space.

So I stopped listening to everyone else and started listening to my Self again, which apparently is the biggest taboo in our society (and I have an understanding as to the why's of this but won't go into that here). This is the point that my life got truly interesting, enlightening, expansive and a joy to participate in. When my wellbeing and joy depends on the intelligent and Conscious actions of others, my life becomes a complete mess, because my personal experience is that, in general, individuals aren't that Conscious and frequently not very intelligent, intelligence in my language being less to do with IQ tests and more to do with such things as 'perhaps allowing the permanent poisoning of our water supplies is not the smart thing to do'. If I look to the general population, I feel nothing but grim despair and hopelessness, but in my *Self* I have vastly more interesting resources, perspectives, abilities and visions.

What can I possibly do with regards the Illuminati? Send them a letter of protest? Should I take up the warlike actions Derrick Jensen advocates? What, if any, are the 'appropriate' responses to the tsunami-sized wave of Things Unfriendly that currently sweeps the planet? Sure, if I had the means I would be preparing, but I currently live in a rental, in a populated area, and as soon as the neighbours figure out we aren't starving they're going to be on the doorstep in true Henny Penny fashion demanding their share of the bread: I have done my Zombie Apocalypse research because I'm surrounded by them. So what do I do when they're banging on my door, shoot them? I have struggled with these and myriads of other questions since I was first able to think- I taught myself to read at three and then spent the next 14 years researching the human species and its histories, philosophies, psychologies and religions, from Western to ancient to Eastern, in an ultimately futile attempt to understand the incomprehensible level of self destruction and self hate that the species displayed at every opportunity. I have not come to my personal and Singular way of doing things because I'm too lazy to think rationally or logically, it's absolutely the opposite: rationally there is no satisfactory explanation for a focused and species wide intention of suicidal/self destructive behaviour until we start to look for other forces and influences. I came to my own conclusions regarding the destructive roots of religion and 'gods' and investigated other areas, which ultimately came full circle back to things that I used to tell my mother when I was a small child, before I became too afraid to speak it anymore due to the savagely hostile reception such things received.

One of my life partners puts it this way- 'Can I do anything useful with this information right now? What, if anything, can I do differently from what I am doing right now? If the answer is nothing, then why get bent about the information?'. I have come to appreciate the value of this- what good does it do me to listen to a four hour lecture on 'here's how badly the world sucks' if there is no equal measure of 'and here's what you can do about it'? I'm really interested in *those* conversations, the 'what skills/internal-external resources/foundational philosophies/ways of Being do we need to bring our visions to fruition? What, if anything, can we take from this system of things with us into the evolved world we're visioning into? What do we need to leave behind?' and all the other aspects of this evolving way of Being. Personally, this works for me- living *into* the visions so that we are creating a living example of an exit strategy, rather than being another voice of doom with few if any possibilities. I *am* Awake, I was born this way- what I've needed to discover is what to do with that. My way will never look like anyone else's way because we are all Singularities, hurrah! So this seems to indicate to me that what is needed for this time is for each of us to be fully, absolutely and Congruently who we know and experience our Self to be, rather than trying to invent another flawed paradigm that will only recycle us back through the same old gloop. That's what a revolution is, just another cycle around the hub.

Personally, I'm up for Now For Something Completely Different.... :D

[Hervé]

Hello songsfortheotherkind, welcome to Avalon! I like your posted viewpoint.

It seems that, indeed, there is a shift occurring on Avalon with a new -- or renewed -- appeal to rationality and common sense.

Joe, I can relate to your frustration as I almost got worn down on the "Elenin" monster thread where flocks of sparrows kept going from one Gootube video to another... completely out of touch with 3D physics.

Then I ran into this video (songsfortheotherkind, glad you got out of the dire state which is intentionally generated as explained in this video):


jMWVUoYNezU



... my comment on the video can be found at this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?33351-KGB-Agent-tells-you-what-the-illusion-is&p=341720&viewfull=1#post341720).




As for the denial and the tooth and nail fighting for it... I posted this on another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41362-Social-Conditioning-The-Georgia-Guidestones-the-new-Heresy.&p=436593&viewfull=1#post436593) but it equally applies here:



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png

To give some reality on how a programmed individual keeps on going with the program whether the latter is performed on one while out-of-body as in "The Programming of A Planet (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39288-Bill-Ryan-joining-Kerry-David-W.-with-Bill-Wood&p=411418&viewfull=1#post411418)" (abductions or `in-between lives') or through an upbringing within a particular culture, tradition or community, here is an example of a mom who tried to talk some sense into her son who is still caught up into what has become a cult (Co$):



Sadly, the last time we saw our son who is still in the S.O., I pointed out the outpoint of "Super Power" to him. He could not respond other than to repeat how the building needs to be finished first and the staff in place before the tech can be delivered.

I kept trying to get him to duplicate that all that isn’t required to get staff through, even if only one at a time. It was amazing for me to see how he could not respond other than to state the party line about the building. He just could not think it through.

The only other time I have personally witnessed what I saw in my son was a time years ago when a friend of mine was hypnotized by her brother in front of me and her boyfriend. Her brother asked me what I would like him to have her do after he woke her up. I wanted to see if she would repeat something that she would considered silly under normal circumstances. I said, have her get up and flush the toilet every time you tug at your collar.

So he gave her the command, then woke her up. He tugged his collar, she got up, went into the bathroom and flushed the toilet, came back and sat down. He tugged his collar again, and she did it again. And again. After three or four times, I finally asked her why she kept getting up to flush the toilet.

First, she just said it needed flushing. She did it again. And again, I asked her why she kept flushing the toilet. Each time I asked her, she would make up some lame reason as to why she had to flush the toilet.

She got more and more annoyed at me for asking, but she did it again and again upon command and could never see that there was anything strange about it.

Her brother hypnotized her once more to release her of the command, but what an amazing thing to have witnessed.

This is what I saw in my son. He could not answer a simple question about Super Power, but only parrot the party line.



Emphasis ,mine, to underline what happens with an awake individual's "friends" and "family" who just refuse to hear or talk about anything else than what's on TeeVee...


So... how to un-hypnotize skull-dwelling zombies who are either under the spell of post-hypnotic orders and behaviours, or an equivalent, when they are not only unaware of it but would fight anyone attempting to demonstrate it to them... tough catch-22 job!http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png


In a general way, what can be done is starting, as exemplified above, with oneself then expand gradually to others on a gentle slope instead of using shock therapy as the MSM love to do following the courts proceedings: John Doe vs the rest of the whole bloody universe (see my 2sd signature)!

[Alex Laker]

I agree with the majority of this, although I might not say some things so strongly. You are absolutely one million percent correct in your call for action. We can not expect to be passively saved from what would seem like the impending destruction of society. Such an idea is lazy and selfish. It is almost as if the thought of something big - an idea - the thought of this date - 21/12/2012 is sucking the energy from people. Even if nothing extraordinary is destined to happen on this date, the idea of it is strong. It is at the back of the minds of everyone on this forum, whether they believe something is coming or not. Even if nothing does, for me there will be enough interest in how the large number of people who do believe something is coming prepare for this day, and how they react when it finally does come. No matter what, this day is a big day. I think that if this day does go without so much as a cat getting stuck in a tree - then - then there will be many who truly wake up. Wake up to the idea that there will be no deus ex machina. Quite literally.

On the other side of things, we need hope. We always need hope that there is something bigger. And if the world really is crashing and burning, then we need to know there is someone who cares. Someone bigger than it all who knows the big picture. I think what needs to happen is balance. We can believe/know (not easy to distinguish) anything about extra-terrestrials, channeling, secret cabals, underground bases etc. But should we not act in the vein of the dogma in which we put our trust? Say what you will about organised abrahamic religions, but 'the word of God' is something they take seriously, and those of these faiths act upon what they believe. Sure a lot of what is preached is hate, and I'm not at all saying we should follow organised religion, but maybe what we need is the 10 commandments of Avalon. Sounds absurd perhaps, I don't know. People here spend too much time wondering what to think. Well I think it would be a whole lot easier to agree on what to do. A set of 10 things, that if every one of the members here did, might be more than just a drop in the ocean. Set an example in the real world. Bring Avalon to the masses. I don't know what these 10 things would be, and I don't even know if I would have the means to do every one of them myself.

It is very easy on the Internet, and especially a forum, where the majority of content is text, for words to carry more weight than actions. I myself am only waking up to this idea, and the idea that I need to DO more. It's difficult, and I think it will be a few years before I have the means to live in the way that I truly want, but for now I'm a little bit stuck in the system (maybe I just don't feel empowered). So it may seem hypocritical (or it does to me) to say what I'm saying.

One step at a time, up the steepest of staircases.
An ascension, not given or contrived.
A struggle for a new Earth,
We will make for ourselves.
No hand of God, no real answers.
Conjecture without conjunction.
Reverence without relevance.
Words are meaningless.

[mosquito]

Joe, Well said !!

Please stick around, your input is appreciated, and from your posts it's clear that you are doing what you can and walking your talk. Maybe you could try and not get too involved in the ongoing dramas here, I've decided to be mostly silent since coming back from a long rest. ;)

Songfortheotherkind - a lovely post, thanks !

Yours-without-any-answers-and-now-bereft-of-ideas, Philip

[Kimberley]

Dear brother Joe I hear you and I understand you... so many of us are tired. myself included however I re-post here what I posted in 2 other threads today because this is how it works for me.... keep your eye on the prize my dear brothers and sisters.. it is the way!!!


I am thrilled to be here NOW on planet earth at the incredible time of evolution!
I KNOW we are protected and that all is playing out in divine order and that we are moving quickly out of the lower vibrating cycle of the past 24,000 years into a higher vibrating cycle. It is a done deal!! Thank you one and all for your part in making this happen much much easier and lighter than was imagined.
I also keep trying to remind us to keep our/your eyes on the prize...keep your focus on what is wonderful and working well in the world. And be grateful for all that is falling away that no longer serves us.

Much love to us all!!!

Rob Brezsny Reading From His Book PRONOIA Is the Antidote for Paranoia.
Less than 7 minutes

Evo_lvqBxdg

For More Info On Rob's Work Plz Visit http://freewillastrology.com/



**********************************************************************
Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think Peter H. Diamandis & Steven Kotler

Less than 9 minutes

IyXik42ASAg

Some of the facts in the book:

The number of people living in absolute poverty has dropped by more than half since the 1950s. At the current rate of decline, it would hit zero around 2035.

A Masai warrior with a smartphone on Google has access to more information than the President of the United States did just 15 years ago.

Groceries today cost 13 times less than 150 years ago, according to a study from The Grocer magazine.

Solar cell production capacity is growing at 30 percent per year. Meanwhile, the price of solar cells is falling at 6 percent per annum. At this rate, America is less than 20 years away from meeting 100 percent of its energy needs with solar.

[Snoweagle]

Excellent thread. Quite understandable reaction too. Do not quit Avalon. In fact, it is in your best interest to stay.
Avalon has many visitors who genuinely wish to "wake up" and discover for themselves the truth that impacts their lives. For the most part, it is a prep school of elite dirty laundry revelations. There are many Avalonians who are worldly wise who can clarify and provide insight to further research so each individual must take responsibility for their own investigations.
But the psychological battle also continues here with paid and secular individuals posting diatribe nonsense to muddy the waters. Regretfully that will continue. Though eventually and with practice, people do climatise and recognise the wheat from the chaff, therefore negating the negative influences. That can be seen across the forums both here and elsewhere.

I too am sick to death of this alien mumbo jumbo, channeling malarky and ayahuasca teacakes tripe as you are, in that you are not alone. However, that comes with the territory when the un-askable question of twenty years ago is now hot on everyone's voice then the to's and fro's of revelation will eventually, hopefully reach consensus for the betterment to everyone.

@joedjamal Take a break, take a holiday, do whatever you need to do. When you look back here, as you will, you will find Avalonians still chasing rainbows though with an ever increasing discernment for truth. And they need you too. They need more people ridiculing misinformation. The problem with the bubble of psyops, it revolves around lies and needs just one prick to release the truth.

We need you :-)

[Arrowwind]

Joe, please do not let the simple mindedness of some posters keep you from continuing to post your insights here. Remember that we all are at different places in our understanding and awareness.

Some people cling to their religions, newage or otherwise or beliefs out of fear or an inability to perceive their truth. Such is the way of the world.

Although there are a few people here who I genuinely feel are prosteltizing (sp?) I cannot help but feel that they are really here for a greater learning. give them space even if it is a bitter pill to swallow.

Sustainability is core to my learning process right now... both in gardening and in medicine and health... I feel that there is a lot of supportive people here, you included. We need to learn from each other... acutally I have done rants not to dissimilar than yours... with little effect. People are slow to change for they dont know which way to go or how to create it in their reality. On top of that you get people naysaying the core teachings on how to create, period. as in the current Secrets thread. We must learn to physically alter our reality as well as our soul purpose, and learning how to call that in is one of the ways to help bring it about. You can call in a new car or you can choose to call in a garden... the choice is always individual.

You have to keep going over it over and over and over and when people are ready they will advance. This I see in my own endeavors for comprehending that which I have not and are yet to and which I have not even glympsed yet.

what else is there to do elsewise? We must keep pushing each other forward, and I can only assume that if people come to this forum they are looking for a push, and insight, a goal, a support of some kind to take the next leap, being in faith, in direction, in goal, in purpose, in manefestation on the physical plane.

There is so much trash that we all have to work out. It is a process.
God grant us speed. .. the god given intelligence within us us all, freed of fear, guilt and brainwashing.

[Dennis Leahy]

I'm taking a break from the forum for a while. It seems to me it's becoming a waste of my time. I wish you all well. Please get in some extra food. The replicators aren't coming.
Don't be gone too long. This little enclave needs you - for balance.

Onion seeds started in indoor pots (northern hemisphere gardener.) Will start other plants in a few weeks. Fruit trees ordered. Working with the community gardening program to help others get their gardens kicking. I do believe this is going to be one of the most important acts I do this year: gardening - and influencing others to get off their butts and get their hands into the dirt. When (not if) the SHTF, having a garden full of food is going to be pretty damn important.

Peace, bro.

Dennis

[RedeZra]

good post ; )


there is not much we can do now but watching the events as they unfold


i don't know about you

but i'm gonna get straight with God


these are times you really want provision and protection

and who can come through to lend a hand

when it all crumbles around you

if not the Creator of the universe

[CivilDawn]

When trying to discern what resonates with me on this forum, I've found that a lot of the airy-fairy, benevolent ET savior stuff does NOT. It's gonna take vigilant action from a point of clarity in each one of us to seal the leaks, or at least to bring a lifeboat safely to shore. All we can give is our best and let go of our attachment to outcome.

I think some people easily latch onto any well-known self-indicted researcher because they a) are too lazy to find the info themselves or b) don't know where to start looking. Either road points to ignorance. Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst. Because of this some people havent developed a sense of discernment for information so they go with what appeals to their emotions. I can speak about this because I was one of those people before I landed in this domain.

It starts with you and me. It starts with self-empowerment coupled with self-motivation.

Things might get brutal but there are still some of us out there that reassess our paradigms/programming who are willing to listen. There are still some of us who are growing in a positive, realistic direction that listen to the "heretics" who call bullshi+. Better keep talkin while the net is still uncensored.

[Magnus]

This post is probably going to raise a howl of anger and shrieking but I'm at the point where I don't care.

I have always appreciated your opinions and this post of yours really confirms many of my own conclusions. Thank you!!

Nonetheless i've personally moved some of my thinking ahead of the "invincible game", as to what it concerns controlled change for global betterment and sanity.

The game is chaotic, of course, but what if we are just meant to fail, as probably countless civilisations before us, on earth and elsewhere has done?

Maybe, just maybe are we collectively psychotic about our common physical lifes and earthly reality.

If our bodies and maybe even the planet would seize to exist, then what's left? Who will suffer then? In the end of the day, what was all that fuss about, that we now so falsely and obsessively hold so very dear?

If death is the end like turning the light off and then there is nothing or wether we are immortal souls that come to exist outside of time and space, or whatever, in both cases it seems like the game of life here and now is just but a mere expendable temporary state of existence.

It occurs to me that a game is always nothing but a game.

By stating this i don't intend to belittle or flush out the game in itself, what i do intend, is to suggest that maybe we need to find a new more sane way to grip our views, by climbing out of the "i'm awake" box. None of us are never fully "awake", but rather continually awakening.

[m1i1c2h3a5e8l]

I have quit Google, And I may quit YT for all intent and purposes, But one thing i wont quit is blind faith, Not in any religion per se. But in my belief that mankind is good. And we can fight our demons. Im not one to be preachy. And I dont like to tell people what to do. It just seems to me like at the flick of an electrical or digital switch we are all up ****s creek. I appriciate Avalon for the nature of its existance. Its the questions that drive me. Answers are forthcoming. Change is enevitable. And our choices matter. There are currently over 7 billion realities happening simultaniously. And the crashing of realities into one another when we interact is also a certainty. We are more than the sum of our parts. I enjoyed reading this post from everyone who participated because it validates my own sentiments to a certain degree.

Peace

[gripreaper]

The game is chaotic, of course, but what if we are just meant to fail, as probably countless civilizations before us, on earth and elsewhere has done?

My understanding is we have a DNA memory where we did just that, completely annihilated ourselves back on Atlantis (save but a few survivors). I don't think we want to go through that again.

[Dennis Leahy]

I've done a fair bit of investigation about education and the imposed educational paradigm under which many of us (worldwide) and most of us in the US have been programmed.

Really, it is amazing that we can have such diverse communication, and that there are so many that can process information - at all! This was not the intent of Carnegie and Rockefeller et al. It was intended that we would all be broken by now, irreparably broken in our ability to think critically, think creatively, discern logically, and express ourselves. We were deliberately programmed rote input-output of selected "factual" information. The intent was to atrophy the ability to do the middle steps: after taking in information, and before distributing some variant of that information (or something catalyzed by it), the middle steps involve logic, discernment, critical thinking, and creative thinking (including creative problem solving.) Those middle steps make a profound difference on what comes out as output. How well the output is articulated (classical rhetoric) is yet another foundational skill deliberately left out of modern education.

If you are not familiar with the trivium (grammar, logic, rhetoric - the basis of a classic "liberal arts" education) here (http://www.triviumeducation.com/) and here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium_%28education%29), and, the subject of Dorothy Sayers essay, The Lost Tools of Learning (http://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/sayers-lost/sayers-lost-00-h.html), it will be eye-opening to realize what we missed.

Since Carnegie and Rockefeller and pals conspired to destroy the education system about 100 years ago, it's safe to say most of us were not given a trivium education. In fact, most people have no idea that they didn't get key foundational pieces of education, and believe themselves to be "smart" or "stupid" based on the grades they received in the exercise of rote regurgitation.

This is not an excuse. Well, not really. Some minds defied the molding and "dumbing-down" process - which shows that it can be done.

Some minds were impossible to tame, I guess. Some minds rebelled when not taught logic and rhetoric, and those minds did their best to reinvent those wheels. We did the best we could, and we have at least a part-time and fuzzy-bordered critical and creative thinking, and logic. All-in-all, (even though I vacillate between major irritation with "sheeple" and a compassionate understanding of why the programming is so deeply etched in some), I'd still say that I'm grateful to have your rebellious self-trained minds to interact with.

By the way, I consider myself a fuzzy-bordered and part-time creative and critical thinker and logician. Some of you appear to be full-time and very crisp in these abilities - firmly rooted in the trivium (however you managed to get there.)

So, most of us are only informally trained (at best) in logic and rhetoric, some of us are pretty thickheaded, and it is going to take a lot more than a brilliant post here and there to alter the programming. As Arrowwind said:


You have to keep going over it over and over and over and when people are ready they will advance. This I see in my own endeavors for comprehending that which I have not and are yet to and which I have not even glympsed yet.

what else is there to do elsewise? We must keep pushing each other forward, and I can only assume that if people come to this forum they are looking for a push, and insight, a goal, a support of some kind to take the next leap, being in faith, in direction, in goal, in purpose, in manefestation on the physical plane.

We won't have as many breakthroughs unless we nurture - and push - each other.

Dennis

[Magnus]

The game is chaotic, of course, but what if we are just meant to fail, as probably countless civilizations before us, on earth and elsewhere has done?

My understanding is we have a DNA memory where we did just that, completely annihilated ourselves back on Atlantis (save but a few survivors). I don't think we want to go through that again.

Is it inevitable that we have to?

[Sidney]

Don't forget to drop popcorn, so you can find your way back. You are right, Joe. The world sucks. I can't speak for anyone else, but most of the time I feel powerless. But when I visit here, at least I am in the company of like-minded friends, who understand what its like being awake in a sleeping civilization. I'll keep the coffee warm for you.:tea:

[panopticon]

G'day Joe,

I can only nod in sad agreement. Periodically I wonder why the hell I come here.

This is the only forum I frequent regularly and sometimes I'm appalled at the lack of knowledge exhibited. The "sun has moved in the sky" cause a youtube video says so, the "Elenin" debacle and the "red giant" bollocks you mentioned all actually made me shudder at the time.

I fear that two things (amongst many others of course) are occurring in the world:

The dawning of a new "dark age" which opposes reason (probably due to the lack of an education system, they're really vocational learning facilities designed to train children to not question, that most "developed" countries now entrust their children to along side the rise of fundamentalism in Western societies) and
That humanity will smile in self delusion on its way to destroying the planet.

There are many in society who are trying to shift the dominant discourses away from this path of destruction, but only time will tell how successful it is. The Born Again/New Age Rapture/Ascension Cults are eventually going to have to face up to the fact that it is only through action that change occurs (as opposed to talk of action, dwelling in smug ignorance or constant reinforcement of socially constructed "beliefs" in "end time" prophecy). I'm not talking about rioting on the streets or storming the gates of power, but simple change at the local level, in the "think global, act local" mind set, such as the 'A Food Forest for All in Seattle (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41248-A-Food-Forest-for-All-in-Seattle)' post from a few days ago. Maybe some guerrilla gardening (http://www.guerrillagardening.org/) might be a good place to start...

I enjoy and agree with much you post and am glad you are here. I don't normally respond to threads such as this but I felt it warranted (no it didn't bloody "resonate" with me, I felt like posting).

So plant your seeds, tend the garden of reason and tree of knowledge with care and eventually, maybe, a harvest of truth will be forth coming (ie. someone will listen).
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Addendum:
Just saw Dennis' post and couldn't agree more...

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his half past caring cap...


Things like population, exponential growth,

Australia ~= 7,686,850 square kilometres

divide by a world population of ~ 7,500,000,000

that would leave each and every person standing in the middle of ~1000 square meteres

BUT the rest of the planet would be humanless.

Overpopulation....really?? or could it be yet another scare campaign for the unwary to buy into??


the raging destruction of just about every habitat on the planet,

Mkay... just like the Great Barrier reef was going too bleach away to nothing twenty odd years ago but miraculously recovered. Not before a lot of tree hugger types got got their snouts in the public trough for a bucket load of money thus fortifying the dreams of the following 'the world owes us a living' generations who went on to become globual warning alarmist$.


the ongoing mass extinction, caused by our industrial civilisation

It is not my 'industrial civilization', far from it. I did not design or build it I just happened to be born here one day so I won't be laying claim to ownership or any associated blame. Thanks for the offer but I'll hope you'll understand my declining the guilt trip.


that is killing off species faster than has ever been known in the past. EVER!

and your entirely de-humanised copy of planet earth which allows the ability to make such a statement logical is parked where??

My problem, as I'm sure it is for a lot of people, is what exactly to believe. If one looks at Avalon in it's entirety one could easily get the sense that the world is very quickly going to hell in a handbasket thus from that perspective quibbling about the state of the basket seems a bit ludicrous to me. I have yet to find a way of looking at the world in its entirety that does not require holding multiple contradictory ideas in stasis in ones head long enough to see reason without the risk of loosing the entire marble collection!!

I get it that you are frustrated, aren't we all. I heard your call to action with some of your very first posts and am appreciative of all the knowledge you have shared and I thank you for that although I'm not in a position to implement any of it yet, I have it tucked away and am working towards it.

All that being said, I can only really suggest that you opt for being one of those 'along to enjoy the ride' for a bit. Sometimes answers are a bit like looking for love, they don't show up while your actively searching and frequently never from a quarter you'd expect. :p

cheers and be well...

[gripreaper]

By the way, I consider myself a fuzzy-bordered and part-time creative and critical thinker and logician. Some of you appear to be full-time and very crisp in these abilities - firmly rooted in the trivium (however you managed to get there.)

Dennis

Reading. Read often, reading anything and everything.

[greybeard]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
God helps those who help themselves and others.
Raising your own personal consciousness through being kind to all helps all.
Let go of fear-- forgive.
You are not the body but it needs fed and looked after.
Balance in all things.

Chris

[Tarka the Duck]

Thank you very much for this, Joe.
I needed to hear this this morning, from a source other than my own thought patterns.
With love
Kathie


I enjoy and agree with much you post and am glad you are here. I don't normally respond to threads such as this but I felt it warranted (no it didn't bloody "resonate" with me, I felt like posting).

Haha! Exactly! Love it!

[crested-duck]

Dennis just kicked a field goal, and it was beautiful thing to see it happening. Tough love is often needed, but not well recieved by the one that needs it most. I've always questioned everything and the motives behind all. It's a ongoing lifelong quest, I've answered many questions about many subjects for my own satisfaction, but still ask questions and piss people off most days regardless of intent not to do so, just by stating facts and asking others to try and see relationship between question and answer to it, and just whom benefits from created situations and solutions . I wish this crazy party called my life would wind down soon because I'm exausted and readdy to go home and get some well deserved rest and rejuvination for my next adventure.

[Wind]

When I joined this forum I joined because I saw potential in it. It was a good choice. Here are many good and wise people, but from time to time I am overwhelmed by the negative atmosphere. Why is that? Have some people been disappointed so many times? I know we all have different kind of beliefs and opinions, but it makes me sad to see that some people have lost their faith. I guess it's just normal in times like these, but please try to keep an open mind. At least that's what I try to do. I try not to condemn even if I always don't agree.

[Maria Stade]

Joe I have been there so many times in the past, asking my self what am I doing here and nothing is changing this is pointless and I am just wasting my time to write to people that dont like to hear waht I say and dont what to understand what I say.
I have spent so much time infront of the computor.. it seems crazy ... but its not.
2008 I started writing and sharing and we are truly living in amazing times.

But just because I have been around so long I have had the great opportunity to see that all is changing all the time... even ME.
People are changing it is a true blessing to see how individuals change over time.

Dont get mad or tired because they will get it in their own time.
The biggets blessing is that we have the opportunity to give and recive from one another and we are all growing and evolving to something better.

It is easy to think that I cant do any difference but WE ALL ARE.
What we do will make difference and aslo what we chose to NOT do !

To NOT do, is a very important thing .... it is a matter of what we give our energy to.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/Vitabuffeln/writeyournameintheheartsofpeople.jpg

Thank you Joe for being here and all you other bright souls to, because we are the change that is sowing the seeds for the future !

[Peace of Mind]

In a way… it’s good to feel the way you do, joedjemal. I feel you.

Bless be those who eyes are open to the blatant discord and obvious issues we all must face to move forward. Feel good about your clarity and continue to be the examples you want to see. We all are followers to a tint, and we all learn from each other. We all want to travel the least complex path to happiness and prosperity…but we all need trailblazers to get it started.

Yes, some of us are more aware than others (atm). However, we all must exercise patience and tolerance for those struggling in removing their blinders. This can be a rigorous excercise, and if not mentally strong it can potentially exhaust you. Still, you must remain lite for others to see because the darkness is can be very thick and consuming. When you’re lost in the darkness, the sight of light is attractive…so keep shining, be the beacon and assist the universe, the planet, and humanity by simply being that example of hope. We must not ever forget how manipulated we ALL are…we can win this easily when expressing sympathy and love for those we see operating under the spell.

They/we need people to Keep fighting the good fight…don’t worry so much about others denial and their restraint. Plant your seeds, nurture them and move on. Out of the filth a tree is born.

Peace