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Bill Ryan
24th July 2010, 09:48
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Dear All:

A couple of days ago, my friend Mozart, a very smart guy, started this interesting thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4225-Massive-explosion-earthquake-tsunami-at-the-Gulf-Oil-Gusher-site-on-July-23rd

It was titled: Massive explosion/earthquake/tsunami at the Gulf Oil Gusher site on July 23rd?

He cited this web page:

http://www.33mm.eu/en/backgrounds/bp/index.htm

Which is also available here if it disappears, as it might.

http://projectavalon.net/Tsunami_alert_for_Mexican_Gulf_on_July_23.pdf

I replied like this:



I just don't know what else to say.

I do....!


Massive explosion/earthquake/tsunami at the Gulf Oil Gusher site on July 23rd?

If that's a question, the answer is no. :)

This is the kind of New Age mumbo-jumbo nonsense that makes the alternative media a laughing stock - and is EXACTLY one of the things I was talking about in my interview with Tania the other day.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_Project_Avalon_Forum_18_July_2010.mp3

It's Rorschach Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test) thinking: we find and see the patterns we look for. I'm not going to give this the time, but I bet you several large jars of Marmite (in joke) that I can make these randomly chosen puzzle pieces mean absolutely anything I want to.

I looked for administrator options to see if I could move this thread to ATS or GLP, but I couldn't do that. :)

Here are my comments - and this is a valuable illustration of an interesting principle. This is what I wanted to share here, on a new thread.

-------------------

Enough said (almost). But none of want this forum to slip into the kind of gypsy soothsaying that is so prevalent on ATS and GLP.

You're welcome to tell us all that the world will end tomorrow, but only if you've been personally informed by the Angel Gabriel..... and you have the whole encounter on video, with witnesses. :)

This is NOT to discourage smart analysis of insider information, trend forecasts from Gerald Celente, or even phenomena such Bill Deagle's potentially important vision of October 2008. My point is that when it comes to complex subjective interpretation of symbols and numbers and perceived codes, I suggest that this really is a genuine waste of time and emotional energy and there are other forums where this kind of things is indulged in all the time by those with nothing better to do.

PROVENANCE of information is also an important clue. The site where all this nonsense came from also has on it these topics:


"679 days still to go before Pleiadic age"
Quotes from Revelations 8.8 and 8.9
"The end of time in the year 2012"

That doesn't mean that the author (Marc Smulders) is not well-meaning, but it does show the filters through which he views the world. And if we know someone's filters (I have mine, as we all do), it's easier to comprehend what someone's looking at and what they are interpreting. In other words, we can understand a little about how they are thinking.

Remember, there are three major things which humans do:


We seek meaning.
We take on board an organizing idea.
We seek consistency.

What that means is that we are ALWAYS looking to make sense of and seek patterns in our environment. A newborn baby just sees a kaleidoscopic blurry landscape of moving shapes with no meaning. But the baby is TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

Soon, the baby creates "organizing ideas". A round object with shapes like an eyes, nose and mouth means friendliness (usually). A smile is good news. Meaning is discovered.

After that, the baby sees the patterns it WANTS to see. We all do that. And we see them in human behavior, in the news, in the media, all around us. We WANT a consistent world where our preconceived organizing ideas are reinforced. It gives us security.

My opinion of Marc Smulders (see above) is also an organizing idea in itself. I sought meaning in his website, and observed patterns (or convinced myself that I did). When he next makes an announcement, the existing organizing idea I have will kick in as a filter.

He may be right or he may be wrong, and we have to remember that "Wolf, Wolf" was an organizing idea, too. Sometimes our organizing ideas can PREVENT us from seeing reality. There are still people who trust the government's view of 9/11. That's an organizing idea, too.

We can't escape this fundamental human function.

Other examples of organizing ideas:


Christ came to save us
9/11 was an inside job
ETs are real
ETs are a military invention
Obama is evil
Obama is a savior
All channeled messages should be believed
No channeled messages should be believed
Anyone who says "wait a minute, you may be wrong, maybe it was an accident" must be working for the CIA
Project Camelot was disinformation
Alex Jones is a _______ (insert your own organizing idea)
Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted
etc.


The point I'm making is that there is no escape from this aspect of how we work. I have my own ideas too (and I will sometimes defend them vigorously).

This is why when we are trying to figure out what's going on (assuming there is anything out there outside our heads at all!) we need to do more than say

"THIS IS MY ORGANIZING IDEA. I want you to take it on board."

To his credit, Marc Smulders DID lay out his entire argument so that it could be followed, if one wished to. That was actually very brave and very intellectually honest. He spent an amazing amount of time and energy presenting his organizing idea in detail - which turned out to be totally wrong.

But he might also have been very stupid... I wonder what he is thinking this morning.

greybeard
24th July 2010, 11:04
He might be thinking he got the date wrong. Smiling.
We cant forecast the future though there are possibilities and potential for things to happen.
The enlightened sages teach that in order to reach that state all positionality concepts belief systems must be released.
No easy thing to do which is as yet few are enlightened.
Christ consciousness, enlightenment, same thing,
The Sages, who know more than most, say that this now available to more people.
I am one with you that we need to get "real" on the forum.
I love the spiritual path but I also like scientific fact or at least proof.
Assumption makes an ass out of you and me.
David Wilcock presents a lot of evidence but I dont always agree with his assumptions but at least he is positive and he may well be right.
The interview you did with Marcel could have got more attention, it deserves it but spirituality does not really appeal to the ego in most of us.
No self no problem, but who would we be without our problems? At least that what the ego thinks.
Well enlightened ones live a full joyful life full of compassion for all, some are active for our well being like Dr Hawkins some are just happy too sit and lift the consciousness of all just by being what they are.
I am extremely positive that a change for the better is happening its just that the other stuff gets more attention.
Many on this forum are expressing love and compassion in a beautiful way.
Regards Chris

blue777
24th July 2010, 11:16
Other examples of organizing ideas:

* Christ came to save us
* 9/11 was an inside job
* ETs are real
* ETs are a military invention
* Obama is evil
* Obama is a savior
* All channeled messages should be believed
* No channeled messages should be believed
* Anyone who says "wait a minute, you may be wrong, maybe it was an accident" must be working for the CIA
* Project Camelot was disinformation
* Alex Jones is a _______ (insert your own organizing idea)
* Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted
* etc.

Hello BILL,
I will play devil's advocate in reply to your e-mail

I do not agree with you, that E.T's are not real * ET's are real" otherwise you and I would not exist.. everyone on the Earth is an E.T.seed......
Secondly quote:Christ came to save us........change the word christ to" love "and it will work perfectly.
:"Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted."..I have both, AND i TRUST THE 25 YEARS OF RESEARCH I PUT IN...HOWEVER you cannot give meat to people who have to have milk......Consciousness is raised slowly, and most of the answers are within us, therefore people have to look within , their higher self , which works in different dimension sound harmonics, also it is a synthesis of light and sound , Reason and Intuition not just one ...union of opposites..I cannot agree with you because everyone on the spiritual path is at a different stage and we all have different jobs to do.
regards
blue
Also some people are more eloquent at prose.....not everyone can be a good at writing English!!

Bill Ryan
24th July 2010, 11:28
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Blue, I was GIVING EXAMPLES of organizing ideas. I was not saying they were mine.

May some higher intelligence intervene to save the Forum from your posts.

Now please go and get yourself another cup of strong coffee. Maybe two! :)

Tuza
24th July 2010, 11:36
There is a line from a Shakespeare play that does come to mind. You all must know which one I am talking about surely.

Sometimes things can be subjective. Can we prove or disprove changing of timelines? Can we prove or disprove that benonolent ETs are fixing things.......well I suppose there is that Youtube vid of that little ufo flying in and throwing a beam on that missile in flight?

Mmmmm? Sometimes one can only hypothesize.

blue777
24th July 2010, 11:40
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Blue, I was GIVING EXAMPLES of organizing ideas. I was not saying they were mine.

May some higher intelligence intervene to save the Forum from your posts.

Now please go and get yourself another cup of strong coffee. Maybe two! :)

Does not matter who's ideas they are they still...." organizing ideas"...until one has researched the negative they will not get the positive answer
quote:
May some higher intelligence intervene to save the Forum from your posts.

You do not want all sychophants on this forum do you, you want people to express themselves ,right or wrongly....(.i think you will find they will)higher intelligence help my posts
regards

norwaymike
24th July 2010, 11:43
I quite agree about the issues you have raised about credibility and the alternative press. What they lack is a well founded "epistemology" for their statements. Epistemology is the science of - how do you "know" what you think you know. In this way an epistemology can be anything from totally worthless, like self referencing - as is done in the Bible (This is the world of God.) - to well formed epistemologies that scientifically can lift evidence to knowing when the rules are applied. One of the most important parts of this process, at its best is the necessity to have evidence for cross-referencing. The one source needs to support the other without conflict. The more sources that do this, the better the evidence becomes as far as value is concerned.

I write for a Norwegian newsblogg: www.acnlp.no - I have done several pieces on the well disaster. Now after 40 days - I still don't know what to write because there are so many conflicting sources, hidden agendas, squelched media and it all ends up in chaos. We still really don't know what even happened. So before I write another article, nature, or mankind has to make up its mind on how this thing is going to pan out. Right now it boggles my mind that the American press allows all of the deception going on.

frank samuel
24th July 2010, 11:49
Bill as a parent and seeing the world through my children eyes, I am reminded of something which year after year in my old age comes back to hit me in the face, "the more I learn the less I know". Sometimes we become so asphyxiated with our own ideas and concepts that we fool ourselves into believing it has any bearing of relative truth , incorporating these ideas and concepts into our believes system thus forming the essence of our character from which we perceive our world. It is no wonder that Quantum Physics has arrived at the same conclusions as the sages of old," the world we perceive and acknowledge as real is simply a mere illusion". In this sense for me is always wise to keep an open mind and don't wrap myself too tight into concepts and believes which fair to say that as the future unravels will more than likely will be shatter as we discover the origins of ourselves and the multiple realities, dimensions, parallel universes, time lines, and "intelligent" life forms.

Blessings to all.:thumb:

Bill Ryan
24th July 2010, 11:54
-------------

Blue, I was GIVING EXAMPLES of organizing ideas. I was not saying they were mine.

May some higher intelligence intervene to save the Forum from your posts.

Now please go and get yourself another cup of strong coffee. Maybe two! :)

Does not matter who's ideas they are they still...." organizing ideas"...until one has researched the negative they will not get the positive answer
quote:
May some higher intelligence intervene to save the Forum from your posts.

You do not want all sychophants on this forum do you, you want people to express themselves ,right or wrongly....(.i think you will find they will)higher intelligence help my posts
regards

Blue! You wrote:


I do not agree with you, that E.T's are not real

ETs ARE real. I've seen one with my own eyes at a distance of about 12 feet.

I was GIVING EXAMPLES. You didn't understand that. It's got nothing do to with sycophancy. What I want is for members to understand what I am saying (and what ANYONE is saying) before they go off on a wild tangent that bears no relation to the post they're replying to.

You had no idea what I was writing or why, and just jumped in as you often do without thinking, checking or editing your posts, or putting yourself in anyone else's shoes to feel out how they would perceive what you had written. That's what drives me nuts.

You may need a THIRD cup of coffee. Please don't reply until you're awake!

Tuza
24th July 2010, 11:56
He might be thinking he got the date wrong. Smiling.
We cant forecast the future though there are possibilities and potential for things to happen.
The enlightened sages teach that in order to reach that state all positionality concepts belief systems must be released.
No easy thing to do which is as yet few are enlightened.
Christ consciousness, enlightenment, same thing,
The Sages, who know more than most, say that this now available to more people.
I am one with you that we need to get "real" on the forum.
I love the spiritual path but I also like scientific fact or at least proof.
Assumption makes an ass out of you and me.
David Wilcock presents a lot of evidence but I dont always agree with his assumptions but at least he is positive and he may well be right.
The interview you did with Marcel could have got more attention, it deserves it but spirituality does not really appeal to the ego in most of us.
No self no problem, but who would we be without our problems? At least that what the ego thinks.
Well enlightened ones live a full joyful life full of compassion for all, some are active for our well being like Dr Hawkins some are just happy too sit and lift the consciousness of all just by being what they are.
I am extremely positive that a change for the better is happening its just that the other stuff gets more attention.
Many on this forum are expressing love and compassion in a beautiful way.
Regards Chris

I have read a lot of your posts on here Chris, you seem to me to have researched, be well read, studied philosophies and come to a good point in your life. (practising organized ideas here Bill, getting to it). Now Chris, you are 64 and I am sure you have been searching, reading, studying, etc, etc, for decades now, so have I. I am 56.

I have studied comparative religion, philosophy, esoteric sciences, etc, etc for decades, read hundreds and hundreds of books. I read about walk ins etc by Ruth Montgomery decades ago before the internet. But I seem to be awoken and getting very, very, Very upset with a lot of people on this earth plane; and herein is where I have this problem with the sages being so consumed with happiness and compassion for everyone.

This is the problem I have Chris. Everytime I turn on my darn computer and get up my homepage to get to my email or forum or whatever, even when I am not trying to look, some nasty, rotten, degraded, evil individuals have done something to innocent little animals Again.

I am not going to quote here what I read on Nine MSN on the computer today, maybe the aussies can, I wont repeat it. Last week it was other rotten little dispicable morons who again tortured to death poor little animals. I have now become too sensitive to cope with looking at this anymore.

I thought I was spiritual, awake, on the path, but I have found myself becoming extremely angry, fighting with the Creator and telling him to finish all of us (not the planet, not the animals) just us because why should we be eating, living, sleeping in a bed well others including poor innocent animals are being looked for to be tortured to death. I myself have had enough. Let the sages be sage, I am sorry but if I came across them I would probably shoot them if I had a gun and argue with God afterwards, wouldnt bat a lid and that would be probably too good for them.

That's my say. It's not the earth, it's not nature, it's not the animals, it's most of us I cannot cope with.

I hope this fits the organised idea form Bill.

And now I am going outside for a coffee and cigarette cause I am not a sage who is full of compassion and love for my fellow humans, and here I thought I was all this time.

Celine
24th July 2010, 12:05
They have changed us..

*celine hugs you tight *

We awaken together, we rise together, we change together.

i love you
celine

blue777
24th July 2010, 12:10
I quite agree about the issues you have raised about credibility and the alternative press. What they lack is a well founded "epistemology" for their statements. Epistemology is the science of - how do you "know" what you think you know. In this way an epistemology can be anything from totally worthless, like self referencing - as is done in the Bible (This is the world of God.) - to well formed epistemologies that scientifically can lift evidence to knowing when the rules are applied. One of the most important parts of this process, at its best is the necessity to have evidence for cross-referencing. The one source needs to support the other without conflict. The more sources that do this, the better the evidence becomes as far as value is concerned.

I write for a Norwegian newsblogg: www.acnlp.no - I have done several pieces on the well disaster. Now after 40 days - I still don't know what to write because there are so many conflicting sources, hidden agendas, squelched media and it all ends up in chaos. We still really don't know what even happened. So before I write another article, nature, or mankind has to make up its mind on how this thing is going to pan out. Right now it boggles my mind that the American press allows all of the deception going on.

This has nothing to do with "epistemology" , the answers to the questions are all within us, and we can get the answers by asking our higher self....the art of it is, to raise ones consciousness to ask the right sort of question, it is the synthesis of light and sound reason and intuition and intuition is the direct link to higher consciousness .

blue777
24th July 2010, 12:23
Blue! You wrote:



ETs ARE real. I've seen one with my own eyes at a distance of about 12 feet.

I was GIVING EXAMPLES. You didn't understand that. It's got nothing do to with sycophancy. What I want is for members to understand what I am saying (and what ANYONE is saying) before they go off on a wild tangent that bears no relation to the post they're replying to.

You had no idea what I was writing or why, and just jumped in as you often do without thinking, checking or editing your posts, or putting yourself in anyone else's shoes to feel out how they would perceive what you had written. That's what drives me nuts.

You may need a THIRD cup of coffee. Please don't reply until you're awake!

Dear Bill,
I have had my third cup of coffee.....
quote

You had no idea what I was writing or why,

I have had 25 years of thinking, and the bottom line is , we are in a battle between SANITY and INSANITY....A BATTLE BETWEEN LOVE COMPASSION ALTRUISM VERSES EGO, PRIDE , MALEVOLENCE , GREED , ARROGANCE, DECEIT , VANITY , etc.....therefore it is a battle within all of us to conquer our ego and fear ,and all of us are at different levels of spiriruality(REALITY).
iNSANITY could be the demise of Mankind , however infinite consciousness already knows the outcome ,and is preparing for it now, as the positive hierarchy E.T.HAVE THE FULLY OPERATIONALCAPABILITY OF SEEING THE FUTURE.. LINKED TO DIMENSION AND SOUND HARMONICS.....therefore it is up to the individual to conquer their ego and fear ...mostly done by suffering and to know what job they have to do on the Earth to compensate for their negativism they have done in their lives....If its anything different please enlighten us
regards
blue

Arpheus
24th July 2010, 13:03
Blue you need to take the chill pill dear friend and use the mind of the heart not the mind of the ego that may help you some ;),bill your post was well written.chris your always adding nice things as usual,and celine another big GIANT hug your way as well.
Much love to you all!!

blue777
24th July 2010, 13:09
Blue you need to take the chill pill dear friend and use the mind of the heart not the mind of the ego that may help you some ;),bill your post was well written.chris your always adding nice things as usual,and celine another big GIANT hug your way as well.
Much love to you all!!

Therefore you do not think this is the truth and reality?

I have had 25 years of thinking, and the bottom line is , we are in a battle between SANITY and INSANITY....A BATTLE BETWEEN LOVE COMPASSION ALTRUISM VERSES EGO, PRIDE , MALEVOLENCE , GREED , ARROGANCE, DECEIT , VANITY , etc.....therefore it is a battle within all of us to conquer our ego and fear ,and all of us are at different levels of spiriruality(REALITY).
iNSANITY could be the demise of Mankind , however infinite consciousness already knows the outcome ,and is preparing for it now, as the positive hierarchy E.T.HAVE THE FULLY OPERATIONALCAPABILITY OF SEEING THE FUTURE.. LINKED TO DIMENSION AND SOUND HARMONICS.....therefore it is up to the individual to conquer their ego and fear ...mostly done by suffering and to know what job they have to do on the Earth to compensate for their negativism they have done in their lives....If its anything different please enlighten us
regards
blue

Ross
24th July 2010, 22:14
Therefore you do not think this is the truth and reality?

I have had 25 years of thinking, and the bottom line is , we are in a battle between SANITY and INSANITY....A BATTLE BETWEEN LOVE COMPASSION ALTRUISM VERSES EGO, PRIDE , MALEVOLENCE , GREED , ARROGANCE, DECEIT , VANITY , etc.....therefore it is a battle within all of us to conquer our ego and fear ,and all of us are at different levels of spiriruality(REALITY).
iNSANITY could be the demise of Mankind , however infinite consciousness already knows the outcome ,and is preparing for it now, as the positive hierarchy E.T.HAVE THE FULLY OPERATIONALCAPABILITY OF SEEING THE FUTURE.. LINKED TO DIMENSION AND SOUND HARMONICS.....therefore it is up to the individual to conquer their ego and fear ...mostly done by suffering and to know what job they have to do on the Earth to compensate for their negativism they have done in their lives....If its anything different please enlighten us
regards
blue

Blue,

No need for the CAPS, we can all read.
You are chasing Bill around like there's money falling out of his pockets. Lighten up mate.

Our perception of reality is based on our belief systems, a construct of the information we have received/given...from any source...this, IMO, is a great lesson in discernment.

sanˇiˇty
n.
1. The quality or condition of being sane; soundness of mind.
2. Soundness of judgment or reason.

1. (Psychology) the state of being sane
2. good sense or soundness of judgment

Noun 1. sanity - normal or sound powers of mind
saneness
mental health - the psychological state of someone who is functioning at a satisfactory level of emotional and behavioral adjustment
lucidity - a lucid state of mind; not confused
rationality, reasonableness, reason - the state of having good sense and sound judgment; "his rationality may have been impaired"; "he had to rely less on reason than on rousing their emotions"
insanity - relatively permanent disorder of the mind.

Peace out

Ross

Fredkc
24th July 2010, 23:27
Note to blue, re. post #15: Far as I can tell, there isn't a sentence that makes sense. Neither are there two that don't contradict one another. This precludes a response to most of what you've written. But let me take a stab at, "If its anything different please enlighten us"

I would suggest to you the that we live all our incarnations simultaneously. Retribution, or rectification over time isn't really a factor. It's even tricker than that ;)
____________________________

"THIS IS MY ORGANIZING IDEA. I want you to take it on board."
The driving force behind the evngelical world. I've spent some time with this one, particularly the two main kinds: religious and political. I've found that there also exists a true nirvahna, for some, in mixing the two. Muddying the line between them covers a lot of unclear thinking.

To get my head clear about which approach, or goal others seem to have set by directing their scalphunting ways towards me, I came up with some guielines:
1. Religion is about how one comes to grips with their creator, and how they subsequently treat their fellow man.
Unfortunately how each of us does that, is a thing which cannot be grafted onto, injected into, or otherwise forced upon others except at the point of a gun. Whether someone else's is "valid" can only be hinted at by how they treat others. I'm not sure it can be truly judged in it's validity for them, in other ways.

I have come to believe that no one is ever convinced any of that is valid, or of value for them, through insistence. What you get is a surrender of will, which solves nothing. Only through the conviction in their living it. You can't sell that, or rub it in. Neither would it do anything, if acquiessence is your only motive. While I may choose to "try on" something that's worked for you, there is no obligation ever.

2. Politics. All of the above is about how a person conducts themselves. The second any of it becomes about how someone else should behave, then it is merely politics. Interweaving God into it, just makes it even more suspect.

Finally, I've learned my thiking self is a creature best tamed by logic. While I am quite aware that "Logic is not God, God is always ultimately logical."

My 2 cents worth. As you will.

PS: * Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted

Fair enough...
http://fredsitelive.com/personal/FredAtFairS.jpg

No, that is not a "bush hat". But if you'll look closely, you will see that it was made from a bush.

Fred

tone3jaguar
25th July 2010, 04:31
The best cure for the tunnel vision created by extreme circumstances, which is what allows irrational information to be taken at face value, is a digital fast. We all know about fasting when it concerns food. However, my personal opinion is that one of the healthiest things you can do to gain a sharper perspective on things is to detach from the digital world for a few days.

I just did that because I had to wait for my hardware to get here to fix my computer. I was once again amazed at how much easier it is to see information with clear logic having only detached from reading on the net for a couple of days.

Has anyone asked themselves why so much disinformation was seeded into the internet through trusted sources? Forget the people, cooperations, circumstances, future impacts and all of that emotion evoking stuff for a moment. Lets just look at this from the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator meaning that you erase the story and just look at the logistics of what the information did and how it did it.

In order to do this, lets reverse engineer the whole deal. Lets start with where we are right now and work our selves backwards. However, we are going to move backwards in the past to before the information was even propagated before we are done looking at this thing.

Our current status with the information is that we are now understanding that close to 90 percent of it was completely made up. Information on something large scale like this is usually like a snow ball that is rolling down the side of a mountain that is covered in giant randomly placed piles of bull ****.

If the information had propagated and evolved naturally, then it would have started out subtle. Then as the snow ball grew in size and became a near avalanche it would become lop sided and out of balance from all of the huge piles of bull **** that it was picking up on its way down the slope.

However, that is not the way that it worked this time. This time it was not a snow ball at the top of the mountain. It started out as a ball of pure bull **** and then picked up some snow and mostly more bull **** on its way down. Not only that, the ball of **** was seemingly simultaneously formed by multiple sources all at the same time.

Alright, so now we have established that it is clear that the information did not originally propagate itself in a holistic organic way. The only conclusion that I can come to is that it must have been propagated intentionally with very clear strategy. So then who would actually integrate such a clever misdirect to those of us plugged into the digital altermedia?

The answer is that we will probably never know for sure exactly who it was that spread all of this fringe lunatic stuff right out of the hole. We can however form a solid hypothesis as to what reason some agency or group would have had for doing so.

We know that it was not for control because we are right back where we started before the information multiplied, divided, and cancelled itself out.

We know that it was not for monetary reasons because no one made any money from the fringe lunatic claims about the situation.

We know that it was not about strategic reorganization of anyone or anything because we are right back where we started.

Then what do we know? Or an even better question is, what do they now know about us that they did not know before?

They now know that with some very simple strategic information planting to the right people that certain effects unfold as a result. They know that they can basically burn the credibility of the targeted communicator. They now know that they can whip people on the internet up into a frenzy just as fast as they can do it with the other media types like TV. Lastly they now know where the information moves to first and which web hubs propagate it with the highest level of efficacy.

Now we take a step back even further. Lets say that you are part of some board of advisors to some agency or group who is currently responsible for information and what can be done with it. You are all sitting around brain storming and thinking a few steps ahead of where we are right now as far as the quantity or percentage of the population that has switched from television media consumption to internet media consumption.

You decide that there is a very strong possibility that in the very near future the information on the net may over take the televised information as the media food for the masses. You then look around the net and identify some people that you view as key players that are currently trusted by the small but potentially huge alternative media consumers.

It is decided that it is going to be necessary to do some experimentation to see what kind of information will propagate itself and how. Then you sit back and wait for the next major event to occur.

In conclusion the hypothesis is that someone was doing market research on all of us and on the web itself to see what would happen. That may have been the main reason for all of the misdirects and extreme nature of the information surrounding this oil spill. I think that we can expect that this will not be the last time that this happens. The next time that it does, another group of people that we have learned to trust will be singled out and used as the conduits for the information. The endgame is probably to destroy the credibility of enough of the main players now and then replace them with people from their team.

There are already some people on the net right now that are acting as internet double agents. Instead of being an agent for two countries, they are an agent for the PTB and then they pretend to be an agent working for our side as well. They are lingering around on message boards, learning what types of information people are attracted to, and beginning to make themselves popular. They are effectively positioning themselves in order to be ready for the landslide of people that are about to move to internet media for information.

Its an old game folks, it is up to you who you believe.

blue777
25th July 2010, 08:47
Blue,

No need for the CAPS, we can all read.
You are chasing Bill around like there's money falling out of his pockets. Lighten up mate.

Our perception of reality is based on our belief systems, a construct of the information we have received/given...from any source...this, IMO, is a great lesson in discernment.

sanˇiˇty
n.
1. The quality or condition of being sane; soundness of mind.
2. Soundness of judgment or reason.

1. (Psychology) the state of being sane
2. good sense or soundness of judgment

Noun 1. sanity - normal or sound powers of mind
saneness
mental health - the psychological state of someone who is functioning at a satisfactory level of emotional and behavioral adjustment
a lucid state of mlucidity -ind; not confused
rationality, reasonableness, reason - the state of having good sense and sound judgment; "his rationality may have been impaired"; "he had to rely less on reason than on rousing their emotions"
insanity - relatively permanent disorder of the mind.

Peace out

Ross

Hello Ross,
I cannot see what the problem is......Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
quote: a lucid state of mind lucidity -ind; not confused

I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
Frdkc...trying to be intellectual does not hide the fact that I am telling the truth
your gobblygook does not make sense , do not treat people like fools, that is vanity
I keep on telling Bill if it is sycophants you want ,then it is a sorry place
p.s
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness

sygh
25th July 2010, 14:30
Greybeard,
When you stated "I love the spiritual path but I also like scientific fact or at least proof.", that really is the reality of what we must do. We must create, as Edgar Cayce has stated, from the spiritual to the mental to the material world. We are getting closer and closer to doing just that. People are coming together and getting bolder now. For a long time I was way-layed with other concerns. For the last few years, I have really been trying to focus on what it is I have been shown in the etherial and to work in the field I belong in. My background is in central telecommunications technician, now I study to be an electric engineer. I want to connect with, and work with others of like mind because with the help of this site and others I'm getting it. Now I have a better understanding about the changes we seek and realizing it will not happen with all of us wandering around alone. Further, it will not happen for the love of money. You bring up a really good when you say we can all talk about being hungry and still produce no bread. OK. Well, let us take the leap.

Recently, while considering the human mind, I have found research, indicating the average ability to focus, actually focus on one , "mentally", for humans, is about 12 minutes. And that's supposed to be the higher side of the range. In a higher state of consciousness, that ability expands by quantum leaps. Repeating what I just heard by Dr. Greer about energy being free flowing and all around us but that it is the rectification of such, not the energy but the power we need and then throwing that out as an analogy (anal, LOL, typical type A, tee hee) toward communicating and translating what we learn in this higher state equates reasonably to the same thing. Wouldn't it? Doesn't it? We are currently in the doing. Aren't we?

Celine
25th July 2010, 14:40
PS: * Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted

Fair enough...
http://fredsitelive.com/personal/FredAtFairS.jpg



i know another long haired guy, in a hat who works here.

ok guys is this a trend? any others out there?

illuminate
25th July 2010, 14:57
well... I'm a long-haired girl who LOVES her fedora... does that count? :P

blue777
25th July 2010, 15:11
well... I'm a long-haired girl who LOVES her fedora... does that count? :P

This is intellectual honesty
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
blue

sygh
25th July 2010, 15:25
[QUOTE=tone3jaguar;38366]The best cure for the tunnel vision created by extreme circumstances, which is what allows irrational information to be taken at face value, is a digital fast. We all know about fasting when it concerns food. However, my personal opinion is that one of the healthiest things you can do to gain a sharper perspective on things is to detach from the digital world for a few days.

I just did that because I had to wait for my hardware to get here to fix my computer. I was once again amazed at how much easier it is to see information with clear logic having only detached from reading on the net for a couple of days.

Has anyone asked themselves why so much disinformation was seeded into the internet through trusted sources? Forget the people, cooperations, circumstances, future impacts and all of that emotion evoking stuff for a moment. Lets just look at this from the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator meaning that you erase the story and just look at the logistics of what the information did and how it did it.

In order to do this, lets reverse engineer the whole deal. Lets start with where we are right now and work our selves backwards. However, we are going to move backwards in the past to before the information was even propagated before we are done looking at this thing....

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha... :dance: And do you know what? I followed you, read the whole thing. I love it. And so, in tribute, I give back to you the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU&feature=related
cheers! :becky:

Please know, I appreciate what you have said and believe it has merit. With that, I am off to see the Ocean.

CuppaJoe
25th July 2010, 16:48
This is intellectual honesty
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
blue

Blue. Your head is spinning. Smoke is coming out of your ears.

Just stop for a second. Breathe.

Okay. I get the feeling you are in the stage when everything seems very big.
You realize how many people are on the planet. All those people, all those choices, all those beliefs, and all the bad crap that's ever happened ever in history seems REALLY friggin bad.
You see that there is a fundamental struggle between "right" and "wrong" that takes place in the heart of every single person.
You see that our origins are not entirely of this world.
You see that we have allowed our very own Ego, born in the moment we were but of entirely our own creation, to rule us.
You see that knowing each other is really only about knowing ourselves.
You see that a lot of us are lost children.

That's good, blue. You've come very far and it's important to have a strong sense of your beliefs. But don't slip into the despair that makes everything seem so urgent and so badly broken. We are not broken. We are capable of making this change for ourselves. We are capable of remembering where we come from.

It starts with you. You will find it completely pointless trying to change other people. Ask any random member of this forum how much fun it is trying to explain to most everyone that money actually has no value and that paying taxes is completely optional. You'll get the same glazed eyes and tight-lipped "Mmmm-hmmm" we all get. You cannot force people to believe. You can try, we all have to try, but if there is something going on in your life that you do not agree with, first ask yourself why.

Why does this bother me so bad? Because someone else isn't seeing the big picture and that's the main problem and the whole point is to ascend out of this mess and we've f***ed it all up so badly and crop circles are alien messages warning of impending disaster and... Okay. All that is outside you. What do you feel? Fear? Loneliness? Frustration? Exhaustion? So you want to grab everyone and shake them and force them to wake up?

You can't, dude. It's not up to you. Get off my back cuz this here is MY ride too, monkey man. If there's some Ego popping up that you don't like or a belief running rampant on this forum that rubs you the wrong way... tough. The best way you can make yourself heard and not come off like a jerk is to state what you believe right now. There is NO WRONG belief. Every belief every person has is PERFECT for that person right now. You don't like that I believe every word in the Bible literally, even though you have excellent reasons why and I'm a moron for thinking it's ALL true and how could Jesus possibly have raised up from the dead anyway...??

Because that's my belief, that's why. I am on a journey just like you are. I am at this specific stage of learning and remembering just like you are. Who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

Share your beliefs, blue, that's how information moves. I may find something of yours that rings true for me and then my whole foundation of life changes and I think you're a god. But if you try to shove it down my throat or point at parts of myself and say, "WRONG" then I promise I will aim a kick squarely at your hindquarters and we'll never know what we might have learned from each other.

You are not allowing other people to do what they feel they need to do. At the same time, if you feel you need to be a perpetual thorn in the side of nearly every person you aim a response to, then more power to ya brother for really stretching the tolerance of all these good souls on this here forum. Heaven knows we aren't stretched enough!

What I'm saying is have a little tolerance yourself. Know what you know, keep expanding what you know, and never stop trying to better your world. But have some patience for the rest of us. We'll get there.

Keep fighting the good fight, blue. You bring up good ideas and I know 100% you are trying to connect with people. But you will find them more apt to take you seriously and actually think about what you say if you don't come off like a frantic, self-righteous little buzz kill here.

Alright, who's wants to be whipped next?? :p

Love to you, brother.

CuppaJoe

Note: I certainly do not literally believe every word in the Bible. It was an example of a belief that, if I so chose, I am entitled to have.

blue777
25th July 2010, 17:01
[QUOTE=CuppaJoe;38450]Blue.

Share your beliefs, blue, that's how information moves. I may find something of yours that rings true for me and then my whole foundation of life changes and I think you're a god.

What I'm saying is have a little tolerance yourself. Know what you know, keep expanding what you know, and never stop trying to better your world. But have some patience for the rest of us. We'll get there.

Keep fighting the good fight, blue. You bring up good ideas and I know 100% you are trying to connect with people. But you will find them more apt to take you seriously and actually think about what you say
Love to you, brother.


For a person who just came onto the forum , you have a big North and South Dude,
I think you are not seeing the big picture, and that is: REALITY ,LOVE , TRUTH and REASON rule in my world This is intellectual honesty......if you cannot see that , you must live in a world of unreality , hate, , falsehood disordered reason
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
love to you sister
blue

Beth
25th July 2010, 17:13
Dude, you just keep posting the same thing over and over again. It's getting quite old.

blue777
25th July 2010, 17:19
Dude, you just keep posting the same thing over and over again. It's getting quite old.
whats all this dude stuff....maybe some of it might go in.... reality love, truth and reason...there ,simple anything else is a load of Boll.......cks
lol
blue

Etherios
25th July 2010, 17:35
.....

I realy feel the same... you and others talk about how human treat animals. You forget that the crimes humans have commited to other humans are far far worse. A while back i read somewhere that the population of Africa dropped by a few hundred millions... When we all know that they make alot of kids. There are global genocides in many many places in the planet. We dont need god to wipe us out we are doing a fine job our selves.... (We still have slavery in the "Civilized" west).

BUT!!!!!!! i want to to think again. You cant blame humanity for the actions of a minority. Just because there is a mass murderer in your street it doesnt mean you live in murderers land. There are beings that want to be called "humans" that are seeing the rest of humanity as a comodity... we are not equals anymore they think we are not humans or at least we dont deserve to live. You cant give blame to the ppl that do atrocities because they were raised in a terrible enviroment and also blame the ppl that planed those atrocities. I am not a sage and in my 32 years i havent spend much time on self improvement or enlightenment ... but i want to believe that human beings are neither good or bad. We are born with animal insticts and then raised/trained/brainwashed to be what we are now.

We are capable of terrible terrible things but also such love and beauty ... that is what humans are. We that have the time and the ability to talk here and debate on this are sooo privileged we are soo lucky compared to others. You cant blame humanity for the bad things. Its our fault that we stopped thinking for our selves, its our fault that we stopped searching for the truth, its our fault that we learned to be slaves and hide behind this .... its not our fault that humanity is at this terrible state. We have to save our selves, we have to wake up... i dont think we can but its us that have to be saved first.

kcw_one
25th July 2010, 18:13
Whoa. This thread has gotten away from us a little. I think I see what blue is driving at (repeatedly). But what is missing in the formula there is this slippery notion of truth. Everyone in here is searching for and wanting to share their own version of the truth. After all, what an individual sees as the truth is a product of their perspective, nothing more. Truth is a statement we make about what we observe or experience. As such, truth is subjective. On the other hand, phenomena that is observed objectively is fact. Truth is as unique as the individual, yet we sometimes share a particular truth if our beliefs, experiences and observations match up.

There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it.

Wood
25th July 2010, 18:19
I agree with blue and others (even though I do not agree with the style) in that there is more to understand the reality than just intellect. I suspect intellect is part of the trap but then I need to be 100% sure (somehow) about the insights and intuitions I am getting before commiting to believe them as the truth. Intellect, logic, rationalism, XVIII world views are comfortable but they seem to leak when pushed too far: from Gödel proof of incompleteness of formal systems to quantum mechanics (not that I know much about that) or the way we destroy the nature in the name of progress. Intellect alone gives us just a piece of the puzzle IMO but we do not have the tools (or the confidence) yet to reason properly based on intuition alone.

blue777
25th July 2010, 18:33
Whoa. This thread has gotten away from us a little. I think I see what blue is driving at (repeatedly). But what is missing in the formula there is this slippery notion of truth. Everyone in here is searching for and wanting to share their own version of the truth. After all, what an individual sees as the truth is a product of their perspective, nothing more. Truth is a statement we make about what we observe or experience. As such, truth is subjective. On the other hand, phenomena that is observed objectively is fact. Truth is as unique as the individual, yet we sometimes share a particular truth if our beliefs, experiences and observations match up.

There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it.


Thank you kcw one...
There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it
the problem as you point out the truth is very subjective depending on our experiences, education , family teaching and so forth....therefore if we start with Truth , then work on the others , if I am wrong I will apologise to all.....
Truth in my mind has to to come from thought, sound, if it positive sound then it is truth, if it is negative sound it is a falsehood....therefore you always need REALITY TO PROVE A TRUTH.......if you see it then you can say it is a truth......however FEAR and the imagination can also provide a pseudo truth ..which is very real to that person, and it is hard to tell them it was a falsehood an unreality.

I will give you an example of this ,one which I experienced.....I was going to a party and had to drive through a real dark wood for miles..then all of a sudden a white horse was running next to the car , then faster infront of the car then it disappeared....I was driving pretty quick, therefore through my FEAR and Imagination I made it up and it looked very real , however it was not...therefore fear and the imagination creates falsehoods which are real to people.

Wood
25th July 2010, 18:44
I'll expand a bit on my previous post.
I think we use intuition all the time, and then the intellect as a tool to check the validity of our insights. This tool might be flawed in that it limits what we can accept as true. We rely on the intellect even when we know about theoretical (Gödel) and practical (our brain limits) issues of logic.
I have spent some time with artificial intelligence. From that point of view, insights/intuition are 'heuristics', 'shortcuts' given by the designer of the system as methods to help the purely deductive machine. They point to certain paths of reasoning as 'promising' and completely discard others as 'nonsense'. These heuristics are many times the key to make a problem solvable in practice. Otherwise it would take too long to simply inspect all the possible lines of thought. We have that implemented as, for example, the focus of attention. When a line of thought is taking too long we usually get bored of it and switch to other things.
I think the traditional view in the AI field is that these insights come from other parts of our brain that do not work in the serial way needed for the intellect. These parts are unconscious because we are not able to peek into their state intellectually, but nonetheless they work in the background and they learn. Now, since I was drawn into spiritual subjects, I suspect there is more to it than just 'unconscious parts of the brain'.

Celine
25th July 2010, 19:38
Blue...

The Kerry factor???

you seem to be creating your own world...

hope you are happy there

blue777
25th July 2010, 19:41
Blue...

The Kerry factor???

you seem to be creating your own world...

hope you are happy there

Thank you celine.....by the Kerry factor I meant intuition.......however she seems to be compromised now.....therefore we have to analyse REALITY ourselves.
Our reality is based on our senses, however there could be other realities linked to sound harmonics , frequencies
lol

Celine
25th July 2010, 19:46
if you believe she is compromised then i see no logic using her as an example.

blue777
25th July 2010, 19:50
if you believe she is compromised then i see no logic using her as an example.

well its a bit like Ebony and Ivory,fish and chips , ham and eggs head and tails etc...Kerry and Bill,,you know duelism
lol

Celine
25th July 2010, 19:54
You really believe that is the duality to focus on?

You do not see that...PA/Camelot ...is the duality?

Both Bill and Kerry knows this is not about them..its about PA/Cam ..


i have tried to follow your lead...feel what you are saying..

there is something..you are not saying..

i want to hear it...please

blue777
25th July 2010, 20:01
You really believe that is the duality to focus on?

You do not see that...PA/Camelot ...is the duality?

Both Bill and Kerry knows this is not about them..its about PA/Cam ..


i have tried to follow your lead...feel what you are saying..

there is something..you are not saying..

i want to hear it...please

O.K...Everything works in duelistic way..REASON and INTUITION..I.E Bill AND Kerry, although both will also have intuition and reason as well.....however , it is the synthesis of the 2, which gives us a higher level of Consciousness....eventually reaching a crystalline thought or crystal clear thought
lots of love
blue

HORIZONS
25th July 2010, 20:09
O.K...Everything works in duelistic way..REASON and INTUITION..I.E Bill AND Kerry, although both will also have intuition and reason as well.....however , it is the synthesis of the 2, which gives us a higher level of Consciousness....eventually reaching a crystalline thought or crystal clear thought
lots of love
blue

"The darkness and the light are alike unto thee."

greybeard
25th July 2010, 20:21
The mind is the hardware the concepts, belief systems, programing.
If you really want to know how the mind operates read "Power vs Force, the Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior" by Dr David Hawkins.
Its the best book I ever read explaining why we do the the things we do and intellectual honesty and integrity.
Chris

Ba-ba-Ra
25th July 2010, 20:23
Just a reminder to all, we are here to explore truths. If something doesn't resonate for you, best to either move on , or if you're inclined, explore it a bit. However, if it conjures up anger, it might be wise to make you look within and see why?

Also, since English is spoken here, we have to remember that some are not as literate as others in that language, so they might have more difficulty expressing themselves. Conversely, let us remember that emails often come across more bluntly than a more verbose writing style.

Several of you mention age. I am 70yrs old and been studying for many years, however, it is been my experience that advanced age and number of years studying doesn't mean much. There are many much younger than I, who are much wiser, and many older who have little wisdom. Years studying also means little from my perspective. There are those who study, but are not particularly good at internalization and application. Let's all be kind to each other and remember we are travelling together on this spaceship called Earth. Keep learning, stay curious and try to enjoy the ride. Love, Ba-ba-Ra

Celine
25th July 2010, 20:39
O.K...Everything works in duelistic way..REASON and INTUITION..I.E Bill AND Kerry, although both will also have intuition and reason as well.....however , it is the synthesis of the 2, which gives us a higher level of Consciousness....eventually reaching a crystalline thought or crystal clear thought
lots of love
blue


Yes yes,..everything is balanced...

i prefer the perspective of balance then duality...

you still are not saying it all...

blue777
25th July 2010, 21:09
Yes yes,..everything is balanced...

i prefer the perspective of balance then duality...

you still are not saying it all...

RIGHT, this is what I think will happen,just been out for a drive.

I think that we are heading towards the Evolution of Mankind, and changing from 3D to a crystalline form with the DNA going backto its ORIGINAL 12 STRANDS..giving us longevity
.Due to the archetypal fly -by ,fear got into Mankind at the atomic level and fear , negative sound creates negative spiritual, emotional intellectual thought patterns of unreality, hate/vanity and falsehood = Insanity. Therefore we have to conquer fear and ego, either by suffering or other means...however the last part which is at the atomic level needs a different approach..which I will explain later..everything is linked to the Fibonacci series
lol
blue

Scott
25th July 2010, 21:27
The mind is the hardware the concepts, belief systems, programing.
If you really want to know how the mind operates read "Power vs Force, the Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior" by Dr David Hawkins.
Its the best book I ever read explaining why we do the the things we do and intellectual honesty and integrity.
Chris

greybeard your starting to remind me of a fundamentalist shoving a bible in peoples faces whilst standing on a box quoting scripture.
Do the words Power vs Force & Dr David Hawkins really need to be in every single thread you post on, Really ?
I'm trying really hard to just ignore it but it gets to a point where its just over the top.
I get it, you have happy happy joy joy feelings and just want others to "see the light", the light is getting a bit blinding though.

Up to you of course, run with whatever works for you :)

greybeard
25th July 2010, 21:39
greybeard your starting to remind me of a fundamentalist shoving a bible in peoples faces whilst standing on a box quoting scripture.
Do the words Power vs Force & Dr David Hawkins really need to be in every single thread you post on, Really ?
I'm trying really hard to just ignore it but it gets to a point where its just over the top.
I get it, you have happy happy joy joy feelings and just want others to "see the light", the light is getting a bit blinding though.

Up to you of course, run with whatever works for you :)

I agree with you Aztar but its about knowing why we do things not about light.
Thats very valuable if change is sought. Other wise its "just talking about" and more of the same.
A spiritual teaching is of no use if it does not help you through the day in this life and its relevant to this thread,
Yes it works for me and I just share that. Up to people to look at the info or not.
Im just pointing to a book that will answer a lot of questions people ask repeatedly on this forum.
I assume when people ask questions they are actually looking for some way of getting the answers.
Hence I point to a valid place where the answers can be found.
But I do accept that it can get up peoples noses.
What I have said is certainly not a personal observation of you but just a generality.
Regards to you Azatar
Ps the book is a about the hidden determinents of human behavior written by a Psychiatrist who happens to be enlightened.
Its for people who are interested in getting away from fixed ideas. etc

Snowbird
25th July 2010, 23:17
:grouphug:

The passion of thought contained in this thread is possibly due to the calendar.

:yield:

observer
26th July 2010, 03:50
If you really want to know how the mind operates read "Power vs Force, the Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior" by Dr David Hawkins.
Chris

Chris, like Aztar, I've noticed you refer to Dr. David Hawkins in comments in other Threads....


greybeard your starting to remind me of a fundamentalist shoving a bible in peoples faces whilst standing on a box quoting scripture....

Like all of us here, I'm very interested in reaching an understanding about this particular three dimensional reality that can be proven with conclusive evidence.

Since I have a very clear understanding; there is not a single psychiatrist that can make the claim they have "cured" even one patient, and, in an effort to understand more about to whom you were making continuous reference, I did a little research on the "alleged" Dr. Hawkins.

Without too much effort I came-up with this article. I'm posting the link and not quoting any material from the article because (it seems) the good doctor's publishing company is in the habit of involving anyone who criticizes his work into litigation. I'll allow the article to speak for itself:

http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/2007/09ap-davidhawkins.html

I too have my own understanding of how this particular reality works. As evidence, I regularly use the religious dogma of recorded history as examples to support the theory I subscribe to: "cult organizations and the dogma associated with them (regardless if they are mainstream religion, or fringe followings) are part of the "mind control" mechanism that has manipulated the Mass Consciousness of Humanity since Homo Sapiens first appeared on the planet". This theory, of course, is nothing more than my "organizing idea", and as such needs to be open to the objective scrutiny of the Forum. I have no problem with that. However, debating that issue in this Thread would be completely off-topic.

I may be out of line here, but like Aztar, and as a member of this Forum, I'm not particularly interested in burdening-down stimulating debate with the dogma of a cult philosophy - regardless of the origin of that dogma. I would hope most of us here are past that.

With no reference to Dr. Hawkins work, the Mass of Humanity has little time to waste on antiquated concepts imposed on our thought processes through the mechanism of telepathic communication from the alleged gods of the past - dogma by any other name....

Celine
26th July 2010, 04:04
Both my parents worked in the medical field..

My mother was a psychiatric nurse at the montreal douglas hospital...

i heard about this man, from a very young age...he was a "god"..was the term i remember them using..

"In the 1950s, a revolutionary breakthrough in mental health treatment and research was made by Douglas psychiatrist, Heinz Lehmann, MD, who introduced anti psychotic medications to North America. Thanks to these medications, many patients, until then considered incurable, were able to regain an active life in society. This development also gave rise to the creation of less restrictive approaches and triggered deinstitutionalization in the mid-1960s."

thi is a great topic but it is off topic...perhaps anothr thread could be started...

Wookie
26th July 2010, 05:06
Also, since English is spoken here, we have to remember that some are not as literate as others in that language, so they might have more difficulty expressing themselves. Conversely, let us remember that emails often come across more bluntly than a more verbose writing style.
I agree and on top of language one must deal with semantics. http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Semantics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics) I'm linking a definition because I find semantics to be a difficult idea to wrap my head around not because I think anyone else needs it. I believe semantics fits nicely into the origonal thread topic "Organizing ideas, fixed ideas, intellectual honesty, and how the mind really work" as one of the tools one uses to Organize Ideas. Just something I'm thinking about.:playball:
When reading the title of this thread, Organizing thoughts, fixing ideas, intellectual dishonesty and how to really work on the mind popped into my head. I do tent to have random thoughts for time to time. With a few small changes i went from the way one thinks to the way one controls thought.(mind control) There are VERY intelegent people working VERY hard to influence your thoughts, so be vigilant when its comes your thoughs. I relax a bit when covering a subject i know well but when confronting something new i really try and make sure my thoughts really are my own. I hope I'm not to off topic, just sharing how I feel about this topic and I do think its important when dealing with the issues presented on this forum.

Peaceful Journeys. Wookie

greybeard
26th July 2010, 05:46
Both my parents worked in the medical field..

My mother was a psychiatric nurse at the montreal douglas hospital...

i heard about this man, from a very young age...he was a "god"..was the term i remember them using..

"In the 1950s, a revolutionary breakthrough in mental health treatment and research was made by Douglas psychiatrist, Heinz Lehmann, MD, who introduced anti psychotic medications to North America. Thanks to these medications, many patients, until then considered incurable, were able to regain an active life in society. This development also gave rise to the creation of less restrictive approaches and triggered deinstitutionalization in the mid-1960s."

thi is a great topic but it is off topic...perhaps anothr thread could be started...

Yes Celine it migtt seem of topic but its about Organiizing ideas, intillectual honesty nd how the mind really works.
Knowledge is power, and if you know how the mind works you know how to deal with many challenges.
On the Internet many knockers of what works will be found.
There have been cases of Plagiarism of Dr Hawkins work.
an early book was co-wrote with Linus Pauling see below.
Sir David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. is a nationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, spiritual teacher and lecturer. He co-authored the ground-breaking work, Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling, that helped revolutionize psychiatry.
For another side of the story just visit
http://www.veritaspub.com/
There is no need to defend Dr Hawkins his work speaks for it self.

Many including myself have been upset by the violence of man towards animals ad also the fact that we have be at war for 90% of history.
We are a very dangerous species yet with great potential to do good.

The book Power vs Force explains fully why all this has come about through the evolution of man kind.

Again knowledge is power, if it can be seen clearly the cause then there is a real possibility of change.
Surely we all want a harmonious world?
That can only be brought about by intellectual honesty.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it should be based on looking at the full picture.
That can only be got by reading the book which incidently gives a full description of and warns against cults.
The proverbial wolves in sheeps clothing

Hawkins is clear the teacher is there to serve you not the other way about. Put no head above your own.
With regard to all opinions and I do appreciate that I can get up peoples noses, for that I am sorry but I am not sorry for promoting information that hands Power to us in a book that has many favorable comments and sold millions of copies.
Its not about Dr Hawkins its about a way to know truth from falsehood and that is intellectual honesty.
If any one wants to start another thread fine but I dont really need to say more here on this thread .
Any comments can be put on the Transcending the ego thread, its the same thing as intellectual honesty.

The David Icke with Messer interview on this forum is an eye opener too.

Chris

Scott
26th July 2010, 06:38
Chris, like Aztar, I've noticed you refer to Dr. David Hawkins in comments in other Threads....



Like all of us here, I'm very interested in reaching an understanding about this particular three dimensional reality that can be proven with conclusive evidence.

Since I have a very clear understanding; there is not a single psychiatrist that can make the claim they have "cured" even one patient, and, in an effort to understand more about to whom you were making continuous reference, I did a little research on the "alleged" Dr. Hawkins.

Without too much effort I came-up with this article. I'm posting the link and not quoting any material from the article because (it seems) the good doctor's publishing company is in the habit of involving anyone who criticizes his work into litigation. I'll allow the article to speak for itself:

http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/2007/09ap-davidhawkins.html

I too have my own understanding of how this particular reality works. As evidence, I regularly use the religious dogma of recorded history as examples to support the theory I subscribe to: "cult organizations and the dogma associated with them (regardless if they are mainstream religion, or fringe followings) are part of the "mind control" mechanism that has manipulated the Mass Consciousness of Humanity since Homo Sapiens first appeared on the planet". This theory, of course, is nothing more than my "organizing idea", and as such needs to be open to the objective scrutiny of the Forum. I have no problem with that. However, debating that issue in this Thread would be completely off-topic.

I may be out of line here, but like Aztar, and as a member of this Forum, I'm not particularly interested in burdening-down stimulating debate with the dogma of a cult philosophy - regardless of the origin of that dogma. I would hope most of us here are past that.

With no reference to Dr. Hawkins work, the Mass of Humanity has little time to waste on antiquated concepts imposed on our thought processes through the mechanism of telepathic communication from the alleged gods of the past - dogma by any other name....

Hey observer

If you are interested in this sort of topic energygrid talks about in regards to Mr Hawkins there is a 19 page discussion about it on the Cult Education Forum http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,13156,page=1

Now back on topic

In regards to Organized ideas & Fixed ideas perhaps we should conciser environment & core beliefs.
The environment one is exposed to from birth onwards may form thought patterns that eventually become core beliefs which then become Fixed ideas.
With those core beliefs firmly fixed into our psyche we make value judgments on whatever comes into our life experience, "this is good for me", "this is bad", "I understand this" I do not understand that" ect ect
Jacque Fresco said in one of his video's "if you ask a headhunter, don't you feel bad that you have 4 shrunken heads on your belt?" He may reply "I sure do, my brother has 20" to which we could then say "tsk tsk" and call him a savage and be glad that we at least understand it is evil behavior from our morally higher ground.
Perhaps environment partly shapes each and everyone of us, and since we all have different experiences we all have a unique thought process and core belief system if this were not the case would there even be a need for fighting/wars or even a discussion forum :)

K626
26th July 2010, 16:25
It is my understanding that to a large degree the mind is a projector and can re-organise any given reality into a desirable mould that fits the needs of the projector. The is a huge and ongoing debate with regard to the nature of reality and then to what extent that 'reality' affects us...I mean you can go back to the Greeks if you like and then perhaps Nietzsche who took a quantum step in pulling the debate around the power of the will to overcome and indeed re-organise any given reality and in what way we interact with it. One example that always come to mind and is relevant with regard to UFO's and so on is that when the Spanish first arrived on the coast of South America, the locals couldn't make head nor tail of the ships that they came in and many actually couldn't even see the ships, so far out of their every day paradigm the then modern sailing vessels were. The mind always needs something to work with externally, but I'm willing to bet most of the data is self produced. :p

slipknotted
20th January 2011, 04:24
what happen to atlantis rising in the gulf and what happened to the life form feeding on the oil in the gulf ?

str8thinker
20th January 2011, 05:38
Oh boy, has this thread got away from Bill's original theme which (to me, at any rate) is crystal clear.

May I use Newtonian mechanics as an example. These are is the perfectly commonsense, understandable laws of physics which we use every day in walking, driving, etc. They are self-evident.

In one or two corners, however, the laws don't exactly fit though they can be stretched a little without understanding why. We had to wait for Einstein to introduce us to relativity to fill in the gaps.

Bill's "organizing ideas" are part of our need to find patterns. If we find two conflicting patterns, we naturally look for a superpattern that fits them all together and resolves the conflict.

This probably stems from our childhood instinct to accept what is told to us as truth. What we ought to try doing, painful as it sounds, is to start with the position that everything we are told is FALSE, that there is no pattern, and then start looking for points of accord, no matter how strange bedfellows they might make.