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EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 15:24
I, and perhaps others, would be compelled to submit more creative threads knowing that we could edit / remove the now-expected negatives that attack our every premise—regardless if they are TPTW or misguided idiots. This proposed thread author privilege would allow the thread to maintain the positive objective it was created to provide, knowing it is within our control of which members may participate, avoiding other negative issues we currently endure.
:smash:

This addresses the issue that "PA isn't what it used to be." It should be getting much better! Is it?:confused:

I believe this proposed feature might just entice some of those recently departed to return, knowing they need not be distracted by those that previously succeeded in destroying the wonderful spirit of their threads. Can anyone say, "Welcome Back Pie, Darla, and many others...?"
:welcome:

Realizing that threads might become focused into two or more identified camps (having their opposition methodically banned from their opposition), I do believe traffic would increase to those threads knowing that the spirit of the author will be controlled by the author. Thus, membership, the PA threads, creative discourse and human solutions would grow in strength, volume and quantity.
:peace:

The mods would have much less work to do, because the thread authors wouldn't step backwards in karma, PA status with regard to four letter words and other expressions of frustration; Can anyone say, "Welcome back Crested-Duck?"
:ban:

This "STAY OFF MY THREAD" button could be utilized at the point the author read a post on his/her thread that distracted / contradicted their message.

What is the argument to those claiming they should have the right to call...
:bs:

Start your Own Thread!

While I do believe the enjoyable act of hitting the thread author's "Remove and Ban" button would be frequently employed, the greater result is as stated above to the benefit of Project Avalon. To the objective of all members, I believe threads would be much more constructive, thus accomplishing bonding and team-building toward the greater goals of humanity. It might also reduce the stress of those around us at our personal domains and beyond...:typing:

Show your support for the Thread Remove and Ban Button—For the Good of PA!:angel:

EnergyGardener

S-L
20th March 2012, 15:30
I believe this implementation would destroy Avalon. Can you imagine the animosity generated by people banning others from their threads, left and right? We'd all become mini-dictators for our individual threads.

Step out of line: banned.
Say something I don't agree with: banned.
Make fun of me: banned.

Ridiculous... why not sit in a small room and just listen to yourself talk?

Would you have banned me for this comment?

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 15:39
S-L. No, and thank you for your response. I do appreciate and understand why this would be a very unwelcome feature to the negatives; they would be forced to play in their own "negative" playground, perhaps alone.

I believe the result is that people will be much more careful and respectful of author and the "spirit" of the thread.

To your point, the negative of hitting the "Ban" button is that it would also delete the "bump" one enjoys from "any" post / response; it's pro/con would be considered for each use. I believe it's feature might invite the return of so many positives that have recently left and more positive threads by those that remain; they are sorely missed.

But because of the "understood" power of the author, it would likely be used less in time.

gooty64
20th March 2012, 15:39
EG, I don't know? I don't think it is that simple.

I have seen the system you are talking about abused on another forum and by a well known personality that I will refrain from naming here.

If the OP just deletes any criticism then where does that get us?

But you make a good point, my vote is: .....undecided!

modwiz
20th March 2012, 15:40
There are many different kinds of awards for different achievements. This thread deserves an award. I will say no more.

Muzz
20th March 2012, 15:41
This would create more work for the mods as multitudes of threads would emerge from p!ssed off members talking about others banning them. the mods would then have to trawl through all these making sure members were not being attacked.

this is a knee jerk reaction

many of my most valuable lessons are when i am corrected by this community on my posts by people who are not scared to tell it how it is. dont mess with this important interaction. common sense and slightly thicker skin required imho. dealing with ego helps this.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 15:42
EG, I don't know? I don't think it is that simple.

I have seen the system you are talking about abused on another forum and by a well known personality that I will refrain from naming here.

If the OP just deletes any criticism then where does that get us?

But you make a good point, my vote is: .....undecided!

gooty,

Its use would be weighed carefully, or the thread could end where it started. Perhaps, the knowledge of the feature alone would foster better discourse; perhaps it would be used very little then...

Skeptix
20th March 2012, 15:43
I believe this implementation would destroy Avalon. Can you imagine the animosity generated by people banning others from their threads, left and right? We'd all become mini-dictators for our individual threads.

Step out of line: banned.
Say something I don't agree with: banned.
Make fun of me: banned.

Ridiculous... why not sit in a small room and just listen to yourself talk?

Would you have banned me for this comment?


Sounds like GLP (God Like Productions)

meat suit
20th March 2012, 15:47
hmm, not sure Energy Gardener... its a bit like suggesting machine guns are the solution to conflict...
is anybody using the 'report' button to good effect?

Borden
20th March 2012, 15:52
There are many different kinds of awards for different achievements. This thread deserves an award. I will say no more.

Why don't you just say what you mean, wizard?

I like you, mate, but with the best will in the world ... how about less energy sounding clever and more energy being clever?

If I didn't give two hoots about you I wouldn't bother making this post. I think your cleverness would be awesome (and often is) if it were less snide. I love you, wizard. Please be more magnanimous, as I know it is in you to be. Then even a moron like me will find it less easy to pick holes in your responses.

I also agree with you! Are you being modwiz the grey ... or the white? Both have enormous merits obviously!

With love (genuinely)

Borden

aranuk
20th March 2012, 15:57
Can I suggest this idea be tried as a test for one thread only first. Then we can see in practice whether it would be to any benefit. If it doesn't work and too many problems then call it a day. Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say.
Surely the mods would have to install some button for the thread starter to press.

Stan

meeradas
20th March 2012, 16:00
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

jorr lundstrom
20th March 2012, 16:02
Why not start a forum of your own, where you were the only one
allowed to post. That would solve the problem with members that
disagree with you. But wait, how could you then use the "TPTW and
misguided idiots labels"? LOL

All is well


Jorr

jackovesk
20th March 2012, 16:03
There is another possible solution you may have disregarded..?

Mediation by PM...

Re: Let's make a Deal..!

For the 1st time I came to an agreement with another 'Avalonian Member' offering him the choice to stay off my 'Threads' and I would offer no further Commentary on his...

Seems to be working out just fine...:yes4:

aranuk
20th March 2012, 16:05
Another thing. Choosing an appropriate thread subject would be paramount to success. It could start off as an enquiry as in Krishnamurti style where we enquire together to discover something of the truth we hadn't quite seen before we started. No conclusion until the end. These are the things that would have to be worked out prior to the start.

Stan

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 16:07
There is another possible solution you may have disregarded..?

Mediation by PM...

Re: Let's make a Deal..!

For the 1st time I came to an agreement with another 'Avalonian Member' offering him the choice to stay off my 'Threads' and I would offer no further Commentary on his...

Seems to be working out just fine...:yes4:

In effect, a "mutual ban" button. That is likely what would happen automatically initially, but I believe the stated objective to my thread in the long run, would be more civil discourse and respect to each other's threads and their founded purpose.

Paul
20th March 2012, 16:12
I, and perhaps others, would be compelled to submit more creative threads knowing that we could edit / remove the now-expected negatives that attack our every premise—regardless if they are TPTW or misguided idiots. This proposed thread author privilege would allow the thread to maintain the positive objective it was created to provide, knowing it is within our control of which members may participate, avoiding other negative issues we currently endure.
Such a facility already exists :).

Click on "Groups", near the top of most forum screens, and "Create Group", and you can create a group and decide who's allowed in the group, which controls who can post to threads in that group. I've not used the Group facility much, in part because they are happily "self moderating", requiring almost zero mod team involvement, hence I can be a little slow on explaining the details of their usage.

As for some of the specific examples you mention above, I suspect that the posters of channeled information were frustrated not only by negative posts on their own threads, but also by separate threads negative to channeling and by mod team decisions negative to channeling, such as the recent decisions to (1) make the channeled sub-forum visible only to forum members, not the public and (2) more actively enforce the excerpt, don't copy and paste guideline. In the case of crested-duck, he got in to difficulty on his own thread, attacking the forum and other members of the forum, so unless he banned himself from his own thread, the outcome would have been the same. In the case of Pie'n'eal, forming a group to discuss Buddism or other such topics might well work, and it would enable Pie'n'eal to remove from those discussions those whom he prefers not participate. Hmm ... looking now ... I see that Tarka the Duck and Pie'n'eal were active participants in a group called "Meditation Group", which Tarka created, so clearly Pie'n'eal knows of this facility.

RunningDeer
20th March 2012, 16:18
Can anyone say, "Welcome Back Pie, Darla, and many others...?"
:welcome:

Oh, I'm liking this thread, EnergyGardener...

The way I'm reading this thread; there's different levels of discussion and ideas. Mine is about intentions of welcoming back, forgiveness and the like, so that's the purpose of me adding to this thread.

Sometimes, our words get ahead of us. I'll speak for myself, there are times when I wished I didn't say what I did. I just didn't read the post closely enough, or understand the intention of the responder. And I'm also learning that it is sometimes it's a language barrier.

I'm big on a clean slate and a hand shake. :wave:

aranuk
20th March 2012, 16:26
EG go start a group as Paul described. Let's get a going.

Stan

Paul
20th March 2012, 16:26
is anybody using the 'report' button to good effect?
Not many :).

The Report button can be used in a couple of ways.

It can be used to handle some a technical detail or question with a specific post ... it's an easy way to pass such a question or request involving a specific post to anyone on the mod team, and it automatically passes a link to the post you're reporting.

It can also be used to raise a concern with some other members behavior. This is the more frequent usage. But such usage has a feel of "telling the teacher on another student", which will usually feel more negative than privately asking a play mate to play in another sandbox.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 16:26
I, and perhaps others, would be compelled to submit more creative threads knowing that we could edit / remove the now-expected negatives that attack our every premise—regardless if they are TPTW or misguided idiots. This proposed thread author privilege would allow the thread to maintain the positive objective it was created to provide, knowing it is within our control of which members may participate, avoiding other negative issues we currently endure.
Such a facility already exists :).

Click on "Groups", near the top of most forum screens, and "Create Group", and you can create a group and decide who's allowed in the group, which controls who can post to threads in that group. I've not used the Group facility much, in part because they are happily "self moderating", requiring almost zero mod team involvement, hence I can be a little slow on explaining the details of their usage.

As for some of the specific examples you mention above, I suspect that the posters of channeled information were frustrated not only by negative posts on their own threads, but also by separate threads negative to channeling and by mod team decisions negative to channeling, such as the recent decisions to (1) make the channeled sub-forum visible only to forum members, not the public and (2) more actively enforce the excerpt, don't copy and paste guideline. In the case of crested-duck, he got in to difficulty on his own thread, attacking the forum and other members of the forum, so unless he banned himself from his own thread, the outcome would have been the same. In the case of Pie'n'eal, forming a group to discuss Buddism or other such topics might well work, and it would enable Pie'n'eal to remove from those discussions those whom he prefers not participate. Hmm ... looking now ... I see that Tarka the Duck and Pie'n'eal were active participants in a group called "Meditation Group", which Tarka created, so clearly Pie'n'eal knows of this facility.

Paul,

I am not sure anyone would be compelled to go through the motions, in effect creating a group "Private Message?"

This would negate the purpose of thread, to get it out for review (and possible response / addition) by everyone.

With this proposed "Remove and Ban Button," the thread would start out to everyone with the best of intentions; I do not believe its use would be employed that frequently. This is temporary solution for the remainder of 2012: It could be removed again altogether when the 3rd / 5th division occurs.:cool:

I would request that PA consider its trial use; perhaps at the discretion and its option by each author at the creation of each thread? I realize that might require some rather sophisticated code writing / programming by a knowledgeable volunteer?

DreamsInDigital
20th March 2012, 16:27
Jack, I think that's a great idea. I know there are few I wish would stay out of my threads, as they never seem to offer anything constructive but negative energy. And, that's not constructive at all. I think though maybe an more concerted effort to be more respectful of others when commenting in threads and taking more of an effort to explain how and why one disagrees with the information and not directly attacking the person, but the information, would be more productive in many ways.

sdv
20th March 2012, 16:30
Just my 5 cents' worth - I see negativity as a challenge for me to be open and non-judgemental. We all have stuff and baggage that we dump on others; we all get hurt and upset when others do not agree with or appreciate our views and thoughts and feelings (and it is tough to be vulnerable and share and risk).

Don't engage with what upsets and hurts us, and respond to that we think is constructive for us?

I am no saint and sometimes it takes me weeks to see my stuff in conflict, and to see the light and love in others that I may find offensive.

If someone is on this forum to create dissension and conflict then that person will not succeed if we do not take the bait?

Love and light to all of you. I don't get the time to read all threads in depth but am so grateful for the information that is shared here, and the laughs. Sometimes I need to hear an opposing view to open my mind further and question.

Solstyse
20th March 2012, 16:32
Sounds an awful lot like censorship.
And in the spirit of the thread, I will leave it at that.
:)

jackovesk
20th March 2012, 16:32
Jack, I think that's a great idea. I know there are few I wish would stay out of my threads, as they never seem to offer anything constructive but negative energy. And, that's not constructive at all. I think though maybe an more concerted effort to be more respectful of others when commenting in threads and taking more of an effort to explain how and why one disagrees with the information and not directly attacking the person, but the information, would be more productive in many ways.

Unfortunately 'Tact' is not one of my better qualities, nor is 'Stupidity' for the opposed...:pound:

:sorry:

But I can 'Forgive' & 'Forget' unless its 'Unforgivable'...:noidea:

Daozen
20th March 2012, 16:32
I don't think this is a good idea, although it's well meant.


To the objective of all members, I believe threads would be much more constructive, thus accomplishing bonding and team-building toward the greater goals of humanity.

If people can't take text criticism of their ideas, how are they going to deal with it in the offline world? So we are part of an enterprise to resurrect the Earth, here to build a team, here to sort all this dysfunctionality out..... but...... posters are so sensitive that they rage quit over a bit of negative feedback? Online crit is good practice for the real world. Like an immunization.

I've been on worse boards than PA. lol. People here seem decent enough. Learn to skim posts you don't like and get on with life.

P.S. A thread that you can ban other members from is called a blog. :wizard:

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 16:36
Just my 5 cents' worth - I see negativity as a challenge for me to be open and non-judgemental. We all have stuff and baggage that we dump on others; we all get hurt and upset when others do not agree with or appreciate our views and thoughts and feelings (and it is tough to be vulnerable and share and risk).

Don't engage with what upsets and hurts us, and respond to that we think is constructive for us?

I am no saint and sometimes it takes me weeks to see my stuff in conflict, and to see the light and love in others that I may find offensive.

If someone is on this forum to create dissension and conflict then that person will not succeed if we do not take the bait?

Love and light to all of you. I don't get the time to read all threads in depth but am so grateful for the information that is shared here, and the laughs. Sometimes I need to hear an opposing view to open my mind further and question.

That idea is healthy and valid on a level playing field.

However, I believe the current Negative / Positive ratio is suffocating, which is why so many are leaving. This proposal is intended to provide a simple method to reverse the effect of that.

MargueriteBee
20th March 2012, 16:37
I had a thread destroyed on another forum. Two people decided to have an off topic argument for two pages. I really wish I could have removed those posts and got them off my thread.

Paul
20th March 2012, 16:37
I would request that PA consider its trial use
Well ... there we get into a more practical concern ... such a facility would have to be implemented (software coded) pretty much in its entirety before it could be used in any manner, trial or otherwise, at all. I doubt that our only vBulletin coder, also known as "Ilie", would choose to code this unless he was already rather well convinced of its value. It does not sound like a simple item to code.

sleepy
20th March 2012, 16:44
xxxxx xxxxx

Paul
20th March 2012, 16:44
I had a thread destroyed on another forum. Two people decided to have an off topic argument for two pages. I really wish I could have removed those posts and got them off my thread.

I have had good luck, on a few occasions, moving such a thread derailment off to a separate thread. So if that happens here, you might try Reporting one of the off-topic posts, and asking in the explanation (given on the screen that comes up when you click the Report http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png button) if the off topic discussion could be moved to a separate thread. It is a fairly easy action for any of the moderators who has learned how to select some particular posts on a thread, and move them all to their own new and separate thread.

gooty64
20th March 2012, 16:46
O3F4GmbHl5g

Kimberley
20th March 2012, 16:53
EG I like your Idea. I admit I wish I had a button like that also!!

However I feel it is part of our evolvement to learn to let negative bump off of us/ not effect us. To learn to bless the negative and not give it ANY attention. To consciously chose to not react to negativity. I do not really like the word negative I prefer lower vibrating. To learn to not take things personally... etc...

Being in this forum has helped me a lot in this area of not giving attention to the obvious lower vibrating energy's. When I can feel the lower vibrating energy in a post I do not read it and if I do read a lower vibrating post I move on to the next one and do not debate it or defend etc... I just leave it alone.

So as much as I love the idea of a ban button...I have honed my skills of restraint and not getting pulled in to lower vibrating energy, here on this forum.

Much love to us all!!

aranuk
20th March 2012, 16:59
Open mindedness is the solution. Maybe it's just my Libran Sun effect but I am always ready to agree with a better idea than I had before I heard it. A case in point is here in this thread. I made a few comments off the top of my head about EG OP ideas. But after reading a few later posts by others here my mind is changing in another direction. I have always thought that two minds are greater than one. An illustration of this I find in films and tv series about detectives like Sherlock and Dr watson, Inspector Morse and Seargent Lewis. Here we have the intellectual and the practical in combination to discover the truth. Each respecting the others validity. They come from two places but they end up going to the same destination, wherever that might be.

What I'm tying to say here is that if we are in a thread discussing something, if we contribute towards that something, we build the picture up so we can see clearer than before. We don't have to be agreeing all the time as long as we adding to the picture from another viewpoint. If we are allowed to correct anothers wrong thinking that is constructive too. So long as the person who was doing the wrong thinking doesn't get touchy about it.

Stan

¤=[Post Update]=¤


O3F4GmbHl5g

Gooty would you believe that song has been wafting around my brain since this thread started. In fact that last post of mine was going to mention it but I changed my mind and forgot to say.

Stan

Kimberley
20th March 2012, 17:02
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

Perfect meeradas!!!! Thank you!

DreamsInDigital
20th March 2012, 17:03
I have seen in other venues where comments can be collapsed by the community. I like the idea of a community collapse rather than one person not wanting to hear a disagreement and being able to silence opposing views that are respectfully submitted.
I think that's half the problem though, there seems to be a general fundamental lack of respect coming from some of the people that post comments in threads. I would personally love to see *everyone* here treat eachother and themselves more respectfully and maturely. I know it is possible.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 17:13
I would request that PA consider its trial use
Well ... there we get into a more practical concern ... such a facility would have to be implemented (software coded) pretty much in its entirety before it could be used in any manner, trial or otherwise, at all. I doubt that our only vBulletin coder, also known as "Ilie", would choose to code this unless he was already rather well convinced of its value. It does not sound like a simple item to code.

Perhaps Ilie will appreciate the merits and give it a trial / go...

Solstyse
20th March 2012, 17:18
Maybe it is because I have thick skin and 2 older brothers who tormented me ( as they should have ) for most my life, but I haven't seen to many generally disrespectful posts.
Words like, idiot, stupid, dumb curse words, those to me show disrespect and useless anger. Now those aren't the only examples obviously, but you catch my drift I hope. :)
Sometimes an opposing view just sounds harsh. I personally only hold hands and cuddle with my daughter if you ain't her and I disagree I am going to say so. Doesn't mean I am being disrespectful just that I disagree.
Now back to the topic
I really like the collapsible idea.
That way it doesn't remove the comment but people don't have to see it if they don't want too ( I know for a fact a lot of my comments would be collapsed and I am ok with that ) Something that the fellow thread readers can "vote" on and not just the Original Poster.

That's my 2 cents which in today's economy is only worth about a hay penny. :)

write4change
20th March 2012, 17:29
I had a thread destroyed on another forum. Two people decided to have an off topic argument for two pages. I really wish I could have removed those posts and got them off my thread.

I have had good luck, on a few occasions, moving such a thread derailment off to a separate thread. So if that happens here, you might try Reporting one of the off-topic posts, and asking in the explanation (given on the screen that comes up when you click the Report http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png button) if the off topic discussion could be moved to a separate thread. It is a fairly easy action for any of the moderators who has learned how to select some particular posts on a thread, and move them all to their own new and separate thread.

This is the suggestion to me with the most practicality. There does seem to be a concerted effort to derail some of the most promising threads except for Wade's, who does his own thing well, and ulle's. Part of that is Wade's control of his own ego, his dedication to his work, and his grounded and centeredness. He puts his work out there and that his purpose. He does not get involved in popularity and feelings about it. Ulli, on the other hand, is a thread about caring and feeling and establishing virtual village environment. Thus, she will comment on the tone and tenor of what is being posted. She has a handle on it because she has also made very definitive statements about what works on the thread and what does not. The pub at the end of the universe seems to be working well for its purpose. I am trying with nearing to develop another kind of space and what is apparent when you first look at it -- is that short little clever bursts are not appropriate only intense, honest sharing is. That in itself starts to have an effect.

In our developing thread, I talked about the various camps that seem to be shaping up as an analogy. Look at this site for a moment as a virtual Burning Man. Each campfire has its own particular art and flavor. You roam around the campfire, share a cup of coffee, tell a joke, share a story, sit a while because it feels good or move on. There is plenty of space for you to build your own camp also. But most of all, you do not have the right to try and put someone else's campfire out.

That being said, I have also contemplated the negativity issue. And I have decided that Gregg Braden's theory in Divine Matrix is worth trying here. And his theory is based on scientific fact. This is a chance to use science and spirit in the right way. The Divine Matrix is the dark energy that we now know exists among everything. There is no empty space. We are just now beginning to understand how this energy works and how it connects everything. He says Princeton University has put boxes all over the world containing machines that measure and report to a mainframe computer the energy passing thru the earth's magnetic field. The usual pulse of that field is the same pulse given off by the human heart. The human heart generates a magnetic field 5000 times stronger than the brain. It is stronger still when the brain and the heart work together. This field showed an enormous spike around the world 15 minutes after the first plane hit on 911. Later it was seen that there was an upwards spike beginning on September 10. So they began to work and study how to predict and how to change the electro magnetic field.

They found you could bring peace if you wanted peace. How do you do this by feeling peace and meditating essentially i want to bring peace. He demonstrates this repeatedly with the same machines and his audiences. The question became how many people do you need to feel peace for peace to happen. And there is a definitive formula. You need the square root of 1% of any given population. For us at 2000 or 4000 that is not a big number but I can't do the math exactly someone else can. But if that many people clicked on the thanks button with the idea of bringing peace to this site--it would happen.

I have decided that when I click on Today's Post I give a short meditation that this site be a place of evolving peace and resolution. When I look at the posts, I look for where I function best and I leave the rest alone. Sometime I read to see what is happening but I don't dive into the negativity and I just recognize it for what it is. My only responsibility to it--is to counter it in my campfire. I see you. I hear you. And this is not working. Please stop. Everyone keep the peace.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 17:31
I believe healthy discourse of an opposing viewpoint is not the issue and where this GET OFF MY CLOUD "R&B" Button would be used.

I believe it is necessary for posters in opposition to a thread wherein after back-and-forth dialogue, they do not stop, they refuse to agree to disagree.

As with all things in life, there would be a trial-and-error period when people will hit the R&B Button too quickly, then come to regret it. One would ask as they go for that button, "how many other people will I alienate from my thread?"

I am more concerned and have the bigger picture objective by its mere presence, with the overall effect of DID's post:
I would personally love to see *everyone* here treat each other and themselves more respectfully and maturely. I know it is possible.

Like all new ideas, it takes some getting used to.

Also, because it provides more authority to the thread author, that authority also comes with great responsibility... to be used very judiciously.

For example, to S-L's point in the second post: I would not have used the R&B Button once on this thread: Thank you all for your very thoughtful responses.

This discussion alone is intended for the good of PA.:angel:

13th Warrior
20th March 2012, 17:31
I think you can make the connection i'm hinting at?

J02RdkvI6zo

sleepy
20th March 2012, 17:53
"xxxxx xxxxx

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 18:04
"I believe it is necessary for posters in opposition to a thread wherein after back-and-forth dialogue, they do not stop, they refuse to agree to disagree."

Perhaps we need an "agree to disagree" button.

The Agree to Disagree Button, could leave the previous posts, but stop future ones, if executed by the thread author. Is "Agree to Disagree" a more congenial solution and button label?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I think you can make the connection i'm hinting at?

J02RdkvI6zo

13th Warrior, whatever your intent, this was one of my favorite episodes. I always wanted to visit the "Soup Nazi" restaurant, at least once before getting banned. I would have asked for the split-pea on my first visit—to be safe.:hungry:

sleepy
20th March 2012, 18:11
"xxxxx xxxxxx

Sidney
20th March 2012, 18:12
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

I agree, we should all use the ignore feature regularly and see how it works out. If used wisely I think it would provide the same benefit as what you are proposing. as the 'stay off my thread" button, could and would be abused just like anything else here.

sirdipswitch
20th March 2012, 18:16
I may not agree with something someone say about me, or the subject that I am speaking about, but I will defend to the death, they're 1st amendment rights, to say it in my face, without the fear of getting banned.

It's all about...
LOVE and PEACE
sirdipswitch

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 18:18
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

I agree, we should all use the ignore feature regularly and see how it works out. If used wisely I think it would provide the same benefit as what you are proposing. as the 'stay off my thread" button, could and would be abused just like anything else here.

Yet, if it is your thread, the ignore button alone doesn't stop the damage to your thread/objective; everyone else will still see it. Worse, if you, as the author cannot see it, you are completely in the dark as to what damage is being done.

My objective, and I believe sleepy's proposed "Agree to Disagree" button, is a good compromise, as it leaves the history of what led to the action, but also, shows that it occurred.

sirdipswitch
20th March 2012, 18:18
oops their

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 18:29
I may not agree with something someone say about me, or the subject that I am speaking about, but I will defend to the death, they're 1st amendment rights, to say it in my face, without the fear of getting banned.

It's all about...
LOVE and PEACE
sirdipswitch

The first amendment isn't practiced in many places, save for the internet, yet... Virtually all of the media is controlled and truth removed for the CABAL; though it appears the majority is still awakening to that circumstance.

sirdipswitch, this proposed solution is a sincere attempt to provide some comfort to thread authors, so that the very real and current problem of departing PA members is stopped, preferably reversed.

You might realize its need if you memorialize an extensive and heartfelt epiphany, to watch it dashed upon the rocks of endless debate of semantics and "demand for proof." My point in the original post of this thread is that everyone retains that first amendment right: Instead of trashing another's creation, they are then free to, Post Their Own Thread.

There is much more LOVE and PEACE within a forum that accomplishes great things with more tools for the creators, perhaps by providing more edit controls to thread authors.

Sidney
20th March 2012, 18:30
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

I agree, we should all use the ignore feature regularly and see how it works out. If used wisely I think it would provide the same benefit as what you are proposing. as the 'stay off my thread" button, could and would be abused just like anything else here.

Yet, if it is your thread, the ignore button alone doesn't stop the damage to your thread/objective; everyone else will still see it. Worse, if you, as the author cannot see it, you are completely in the dark as to what damage is being done.

My objective, and I believe sleepy's proposed "Agree to Disagree" button, is a good compromise, as it leaves the history of what led to the action, but also, shows that it occurred.

That is a very good point. I hadn't thought of that. I do like the agree to disagree idea though. I mean, the stay out of my thread idea is a good idea too, I just think it would be easily abused by the troublemakers.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 18:40
We do have the 'ignore' thing - why don't you use it?

I have an in-built 'ignore' system,
it doesn't always work, that's true -
but if it doesn't, there's immediately
a replacement program running that's called
'learn' [that's actually running in the background all the time].

I'm fine with these. Try 'em out!

I agree, we should all use the ignore feature regularly and see how it works out. If used wisely I think it would provide the same benefit as what you are proposing. as the 'stay off my thread" button, could and would be abused just like anything else here.

Yet, if it is your thread, the ignore button alone doesn't stop the damage to your thread/objective; everyone else will still see it. Worse, if you, as the author cannot see it, you are completely in the dark as to what damage is being done.

My objective, and I believe sleepy's proposed "Agree to Disagree" button, is a good compromise, as it leaves the history of what led to the action, but also, shows that it occurred.

That is a very good point. I hadn't thought of that. I do like the agree to disagree idea though. I mean, the stay out of my thread idea is a good idea too, I just think it would be easily abused by the troublemakers.

But if it can only be abused on one's own threads, who loses?

kcbc2010
20th March 2012, 19:22
I know I've written a lot about this. I really can't wait for the day when I don't have to anymore! lol

A lot of the problems on PA really could be solved if people at least came out said after a snarky post </sorry I didn't realize I had such strong emotions over this or I'm sorry, but I'm feeling a bit snarky (angry/frustrated/playful). Really hope I'm in a better mood tomorrow> Just dumping a lot of emotions on people who really aren't prepared for them really isn't nice. Speaking from the "I" perspective, not the "you, you, you" perspective. would be a big help. Starting to feel like a broken record, but most people really do try to live by the Golden Rule. You know, treating your neighbor like you would like to be treated. Being on-line shouldn't be an excuse to treat people badly, especially when you disagree with them and think that they are the sole reason why humanity will never, ever progress. (Notice how I didn't call anyone a name!) :cool:

Anyway........I'm not sure a Remove/Ban Button is a good idea. I like the sentiment behind it, but I'd need more convincing before agreeing that it's the right thing to do. Would there be a magic number which would qualify someone for a ban or would it just be automatic if there's one problem? What if the mods don't think that the post was problematic? Remember that we also have an ignore button and the report button. I'd just like to see the idea fleshed out more before deciding whether to support it or not.

Ivanhoe
20th March 2012, 19:37
Whereas I appreciate your sentiments EG, I don't think your idea would help in the long run.
I think it would anger and intimidate people who think they have a legitimate concern or opposing viewpoint they wish to express.
I think if anyone is upset or offended by someone else's responses they should utilize the report and/or ignore buttons, that's what they're there for, that way the mods can ascertain the depth of the conflict and take the appropriate steps to try to resolve it.
To me, any use of a censorship button by the author of the original OP would invite even further hostility towards them in the form of a "rant" thread aimed at the author. Of what use could that possibly be.
Personally I just pass over those posts I deem mean or petty. I know that doesn't work for everyone.
LOL, kcbc2010 I was busy writing this and after I posted it I saw your post.:loco:

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 19:47
I know I've written a lot about this. I really can't wait for the day when I don't have to anymore! lol

A lot of the problems on PA really could be solved if people at least came out said after a snarky post </sorry I didn't realize I had such strong emotions over this or I'm sorry, but I'm feeling a bit snarky (angry/frustrated/playful). Really hope I'm in a better mood tomorrow> Just dumping a lot of emotions on people who really aren't prepared for them really isn't nice. Speaking from the "I" perspective, not the "you, you, you" perspective. would be a big help. Starting to feel like a broken record, but most people really do try to live by the Golden Rule. You know, treating your neighbor like you would like to be treated. Being on-line shouldn't be an excuse to treat people badly, especially when you disagree with them and think that they are the sole reason why humanity will never, ever progress. (Notice how I didn't call anyone a name!) :cool:

Anyway........I'm not sure a Remove/Ban Button is a good idea. I like the sentiment behind it, but I'd need more convincing before agreeing that it's the right thing to do. Would there be a magic number which would qualify someone for a ban or would it just be automatic if there's one problem? What if the mods don't think that the post was problematic? Remember that we also have an ignore button and the report button. I'd just like to see the idea fleshed out more before deciding whether to support it or not.

kcbc,

Great question on the numbers. Perhaps, at least 2, or even 3 posts should be allowed prior to being eligible for "the Button," though that "condition" would require even more code for Ilie.

I was there yesterday on S-L's thread arguing against his proposed depopulation of 80% of humanity; I was taking it personal for all of us that would be first to be picked up for the guillotines.... To S-L's credit, it stimulated much thought toward solutions for our future, that I and others would like to expound upon: provided we are more comfortable that it will not be derailed. You can be rest assured that if these ideas are proposed, I will not word the title or proposal in any way that could be interpreted supporting the elimination of any life, or as a back-door test to make TPTW's ideas less shocking as they plan to implement them.

:focus:

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 19:50
Whereas I appreciate your sentiments EG, I don't think your idea would help in the long run.
I think it would anger and intimidate people who think they have a legitimate concern or opposing viewpoint they wish to express.
I think if anyone is upset or offended by someone else's responses they should utilize the report and/or ignore buttons, that's what they're there for, that way the mods can ascertain the depth of the conflict and take the appropriate steps to try to resolve it.
To me, any use of a censorship button by the author of the original OP would invite even further hostility towards them in the form of a "rant" thread aimed at the author. Of what use could that possibly be.
Personally I just pass over those posts I deem mean or petty. I know that doesn't work for everyone.
LOL, kcbc2010 I was busy writing this and after I posted it I saw your post.:loco:

Ivanhoe,

Please see my response to starchild explaining why the "ignore" or "report" buttons do not solve this problem. But, as you and kcbc addressed, perhaps 2 or 3 posts should be allowed prior to eligibility for "the Button."

EnergyGardener

Ivanhoe
20th March 2012, 20:15
What I'm saying is where would it stop?
What might be seen as offensive or an attempt at derailment to one person might be deemed perfectly acceptable by another viewing the same thread.
Reporting it allows the mods to see the problem and try to rectify it.
I apologize, my thought processes are a little slow today and I'm sure I'm not being as clear as I intend. Sorry.

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 20:23
What I'm saying is where would it stop?
What might be seen as offensive or an attempt at derailment to one person might be deemed perfectly acceptable by another viewing the same thread.
Reporting it allows the mods to see the problem and try to rectify it.
I apologize, my thought processes are a little slow today and I'm sure I'm not being as clear as I intend. Sorry.

I believe, as with most things in life, we learn by doing; all is self correcting, provided we are afforded the time to learn: An author that has a heavy hand on the "Agree to Disagree" button, might pay the price of those not wanting to waste the time and effort toward "any" response. On the other hand, with a brief exercise on worthwhile occasion, very thoughtful and productive threads might reach their desired outcomes.

I trust people with more authority, not less.

Ivanhoe
20th March 2012, 20:28
Well EG, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. But I respect your viewpoint.
:peace:

Sidney
20th March 2012, 21:05
Why can't they just come out and say "Hey, I'm a big fat TROLL, and I really just want to upset you today, I'm really sorry."" LOL just kidding.

It is a shame we have to spend our precious time trying to find ways to not allow someone else to make us feel bad. I really don't know what the answer is, I wish I had something better to suggest.

aranuk
20th March 2012, 21:20
The thought just occurred to me that the author of the thread will need sleep. he/she will not be online for many hours. In that time 50 posts could have been posted and by that time it is too late.

Stan

tonius
20th March 2012, 21:28
EnergyGardener, while your intention is good, the way you propose to reach such ''peace climate'' remindes me of the first steps of a dictatorship. Let me explain why. You already have a possibility to keep away the ''negative'' part as you call it, you can use your Free Will, the method is called ''take your eyes away from the screen while you scrool down'' , that way your feelings wont be hurt and the FREE WILL of the person author of the ''negative '' post may be at least offered some considaration.Methods similar to yours what the first enthusiasts of the communist party in my country many years ago proposed, ''remove'' an ''limit'' some elements wich dared think differently because they were ''negative'' to the mighty communist party and by deafault to the rest of the community (Wich of course were sleeping), in that case of course remove ment literally remove , death, and ban ment isolation from the rest of the society, prison. I know , its maybe a banal example, but from story can be learned, what i learned : PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE TOLD WHAT TO DO OR SAY, MAKING THEM KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT. The button you propose does that , if you don't like you ignore but adding such button goes beyond, means DESIRE FOR PUNISHMENT.

At least if you all decide to do such thing, lets call this button by its true name, ''PUNISH Button''.

Even in the case ,which i dont esclude is already happening, of the presence of people with real bad intentions against avalon, acting in such direction would only make their work easier, their injection of ego based doses of fear would go smoothly, avalon is its peoples, souls , and they come and go,it doesent need protection, its just a FORUM, place to meet and talk , not a place in itself.

Avalon becomes more powerfull when we show that we dont fear the words or go against the free will of other beings, because with that button its not only you who will just ''cast away'' the ''negativity'' , you have also decided for other people who follow this forum, most of whom are not even registered, for whom , in their unique path they might have needed that ''negative post'' , to see at least we can take this reality for what it is ,be in it yet not ''directed'' in fear based reactions from it, that we dont flinch our eyes whatever opinion is thrown at us, we dont care about opinions, they change like the wind, we care abot the authors of such opinions, as much ''wrong '' as they may seem.


While I do believe the enjoyable act of hitting the thread author's "Remove and Ban" button would be frequently employed, the greater result is as stated above to the benefit of Project Avalon. To the objective of all members, I believe threads would be much more constructive, thus accomplishing bonding and team-building toward the greater goals of humanity.

Maybe you mean cult building and autogols of humanity. I even thanked someone who told me to f..ck off her thread, yet i truely thanked her for honesty, i looked beyond the words, it was just an expression of feelings,i didnt get hurt, i was happy she could say what she felt without being affraid of being benned or renmoved, and i even dont agree with the moderator who deleted it, its all part of a process, you cant just cancel parts of it, free will above all, freedom af speech too.

spiritguide
20th March 2012, 22:09
Very good example of what happens within societal structures tonius. Of all that has been said on this subject you showed the most valid example of what not to do. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. After reviewing all comments the need for self control is essential for peace and 10,000 new buttons will not lessen the effects of those that do not have any. Confronting adversity with geniality moderates the frequency. IMHO

:peace:

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 22:15
EnergyGardener, while your intention is good, the way you propose to reach such ''peace climate'' remindes me of the first steps of a dictatorship. Let me explain why. You already have a possibility to keep away the ''negative'' part as you call it, you can use your Free Will, the method is called ''take your eyes away from the screen while you scrool down'' , that way your feelings wont be hurt and the FREE WILL of the person author of the ''negative '' post may be at least offered some considaration.Methods similar to yours what the first enthusiasts of the communist party in my country many years ago proposed, ''remove'' an ''limit'' some elements wich dared think differently because they were ''negative'' to the mighty communist party and by deafault to the rest of the community (Wich of course were sleeping), in that case of course remove ment literally remove , death, and ban ment isolation from the rest of the society, prison. I know , its maybe a banal example, but from story can be learned, what i learned : PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE TOLD WHAT TO DO OR SAY, MAKING THEM KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT. The button you propose does that , if you don't like you ignore but adding such button goes beyond, means DESIRE FOR PUNISHMENT.

At least if you all decide to do such thing, lets call this button by its true name, ''PUNISH Button''.

Even in the case ,which i dont esclude is already happening, of the presence of people with real bad intentions against avalon, acting in such direction would only make their work easier, their injection of ego based doses of fear would go smoothly, avalon is its peoples, souls , and they come and go,it doesent need protection, its just a FORUM, place to meet and talk , not a place in itself.

Avalon becomes more powerfull when we show that we dont fear the words or go against the free will of other beings, because with that button its not only you who will just ''cast away'' the ''negativity'' , you have also decided for other people who follow this forum, most of whom are not even registered, for whom , in their unique path they might have needed that ''negative post'' , to see at least we can take this reality for what it is ,be in it yet not ''directed'' in fear based reactions from it, that we dont flinch our eyes whatever opinion is thrown at us, we dont care about opinions, they change like the wind, we care abot the authors of such opinions, as much ''wrong '' as they may seem.


While I do believe the enjoyable act of hitting the thread author's "Remove and Ban" button would be frequently employed, the greater result is as stated above to the benefit of Project Avalon. To the objective of all members, I believe threads would be much more constructive, thus accomplishing bonding and team-building toward the greater goals of humanity.

Maybe you mean cult building and autogols of humanity. I even thanked someone who told me to f..ck off her thread, yet i truely thanked her for honesty, i looked beyond the words, it was just an expression of feelings,i didnt get hurt, i was happy she could say what she felt without being affraid of being benned or renmoved, and i even dont agree with the moderator who deleted it, its all part of a process, you cant just cancel parts of it, free will above all, freedom af speech too.

The first steps of a dictatorship is to remove gun ownership. Then, they can "entirely" remove free speech.

Therefore, I support both gun ownership and free speech. What I do not support is overwhelming good threads with relentless negative swarming.

The result is a very real problem made evident by the substantial loss of very good members. My proposal / solution is born out of need. Without it, I am reluctant to venture forward at PA with creative solution oriented proposals—with the hope of support and additions to. This sincere proposal is intended to as a significant solution for action, but also to increase the awareness we are in need of a solution to increase the Positive/Negative ratio of postings here at PA.

I also support the right, as referenced above for anyone to freely post 2 or 3 messages, even if negative (that should be evident enough for those that require it), before getting the "Ban" button, at the sole determination of the thread's author. We've already accepted the mods' right to do so; I am suggesting each author should first have that right.

The rest of your arguments are a bit over the top with regard to communism, cults, punishment or enjoyment being told to ___ whatever; but I sense you passion for the subject of being threatened with censorship of any nature. Or, perhaps you object to the balance of the field of play by maintaining the thread author's focus at his discretion.

My point is that the freedom to rebut and Op Ed the thread has gotten out to hand to the point that long-term posters of real solutions will not and are not remaining. While we cannot know what good we are accomplishing for making the idea known, receiving relentless harassment does not sit well for return threads. That may be by design; I do not control this forum. This is an attempt to help PA with a solution of improvement; you and those that have expressed your strong disagreement may see its value in the future. Or perhaps not.

I do not expect everyone to appreciate or even understand how this is helpful to keep the diamonds here; clearly many do not care, or perhaps celebrate that end?

We all must choose where and when best to spend our time, efforts and share the seeds developed within each of our lifetimes.

aranuk
20th March 2012, 22:20
Hi EG, you haven't addressed my last post. The thought just occurred to me that the author of the thread will need sleep. he/she will not be online for many hours. In that time 50 posts could have been posted and by that time it is too late.
How do you get round that?

Stan

Moz
20th March 2012, 22:24
Dear EnergyGardener,

I believe that Avalon already has several "nets" to filter personalities that may present behaviour that is destructive. I also know its not perfect.

In my personal view I have seen these (negative,ironic or angry posts/replies) but one just skips these posts, the same way we spend more time reading comments that make sense to us and bring arguments to the forum.

If you have time to write, some of us will read you. Keep working and push forward. I really do not believe your suggestion is a bad one, I believe its just not the correct way in a plural organization that tries to make space for most opinions.

A hug to you,
Moz

This thread is your idea but everybody's forum...its ours.

Billy
20th March 2012, 22:31
So sorry for not reading all the posts yet, but i am so pleased this topic is being expressed.

Thank you Mods for your inpute. The group option is worth more thought.

I have limited time online just now. I will read on before comment i more.

My first thought is maybe. A lttle more tolerance balanced with a little more respect may move avalon foreward with no need for more rules.

I would love to see this community/project move foreward with all the individual unique energies from all universal civilizations achieving their dream, to live together in peace.

I believe this is possible.

peace

DeDukshyn
20th March 2012, 22:39
I believe this implementation would destroy Avalon. Can you imagine the animosity generated .....

Makes you wonder what kind of people we have here as members of Avalon; if it is true that abuse would be rampant and backlash severe, then who are we as a group? ... Should we support the perceived generated animosity or the right for thread control by the authors? Pie' said it perfect: (perhaps slightly paraphrased) --
Someone will start a thread on, say, how to make sandwiches, and someone always keeps interfering shouting "I don't Like sandwiches!" How do we repel the useless "I don't like sandwiches!" type posts on sandwich making threads if the mods don't keep these disruptive people on topic? I'm not taking sides -- just laying out the real issue as I'm sure it is perceived by the OP ;)

ADDITION: It appears to me that many members are asking for better control of disruptive posts that are ill-intended toward a particular topic / thread / person or whatever. The mods could accomplish this themselves by being a little more attentive to their own "off topic" / "disruptive.." rules. It's not really a complex issue, but many seem to see the current situation as enabling these types of disruptive responses, as opposed to eliminating them. A person can always start their own thread (perhaps with the mods "help" ;-) called "Why I hate ....." and leave the original threads and discussions alone. Soon it will be clear who are just here to be disruptive to others' interests and then they can be dealt with. But allowing them as is status quo will continue to be disruptive. It is that simple. ;)

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 22:59
Hi EG, you haven't addressed my last post. The thought just occurred to me that the author of the thread will need sleep. he/she will not be online for many hours. In that time 50 posts could have been posted and by that time it is too late.
How do you get round that?

Stan

Stan,

Having at one's disposal the "Ban" button would be helpful to reduce the "negative" swarming that occurs often now. This alone will serve as a significant deterrent. Sort of like the burglar knowing the homeowner is a gun owner and capable of using it.

Second, I have ended many a stalemate with the phrase (used here too), "Let's Agree to Disagree." Oftentimes it works, but occasionally not.

Your point is not so much of my concern, because the "negatives" argument is usually for the riled response of the author. While I realize this might be considered great training for patience, thoughtful creative response, etc., it is time consuming, distracting and deflates the lofty spirit and hope of the thread. After awhile, "enough is enough," one way or another. For now, "enough is enough" means, good people leave. I would like to change, "enough is enough," to boot negatives from good threads.

If someone wants to bump a thread 50 to 60 times without the thread author's response, I doubt if the author would mind. It is the actual and sincere banter with author that sucks out the energy, wearing thin a once lofty point, even making it seem moot.

I didn't respond previously because I didn't believe the "Ban" button applied to that circumstance. But if you are in fact asking a serious question; if something crazy like that did get out of hand, and to the author's displeasure upon awakening, then perhaps he can request a mod to help clean things up?

Stan, you have requested and I have responded; you have now heard my ideas, extensively. I have not heard yours, only questions.

Do you believe there is a problem? I would like to know your proposal for one or more solutions, if you in fact, offer any?

Deega
20th March 2012, 23:30
Thanks EnergyGardener, a difficult challenge you've selected! If a R & B button would be given to Tread author, it would worsen the situation at PA and here why!

As you know, we are dualitic people, our body work with these two polarities, we can't be without the other, it's natural! Why would we have to skip one polarity?, to save frustrated PA members from leaving!, maybe they were already at a crossroad of leaving, who knows...?

At a certain point in being a Forum member, we become stale, and we have to renew, one can stop posting or leave for another Forum.

Also, as you know, we learn more from the negative than the positive, the latter have us feel that "all is well and fine", and we don't usually learn deeper thoughts in the positive, it's securing, feel good thing, but do we grow intellectually, emotionally, spiritually...?, I would think that we should be in both polarities as much as we can, otherwise, it become difficult to hold.

Do we have the wisdom to do the right thing for the difficult situation (R & B for example)..., I would think that wisdom is partially reach in ageing and even then, it ain't always the perfect one!, because, from the look of other, we don't touched them as it should.

I like Paul idea to do a group thing.

All the best to you and continue this great Tread of yours.

Deega

EnergyGardener
20th March 2012, 23:52
Thanks EnergyGardener, a difficult challenge you've selected! If a R & B button would be given to Tread author, it would worsen the situation at PA and here why!

As you know, we are dualitic people, our body work with these two polarities, we can't be without the other, it's natural! Why would we have to skip one polarity?, to save frustrated PA members from leaving!, maybe they were already at a crossroad of leaving, who knows...?

At a certain point in being a Forum member, we become stale, and we have to renew, one can stop posting or leave for another Forum.

Also, as you know, we learn more from the negative than the positive, the latter have us feel that "all is well and fine", and we don't usually learn deeper thoughts in the positive, it's securing, feel good thing, but do we grow intellectually, emotionally, spiritually...?, I would think that we should be in both polarities as much as we can, otherwise, it become difficult to hold.

Do we have the wisdom to do the right thing for the difficult situation (R & B for example)..., I would think that wisdom is partially reach in ageing and even then, it ain't always the perfect one!, because, from the look of other, we don't touched them as it should.

I like Paul idea to do a group thing.

All the best to you and continue this great Tread of yours.

Deega

Deega,

Providing, allowing 3 posts (for eligibility) prior to the drop of an R & B button... isn't that enough duality from a single antagonistic poster / thread de-railer?

However, I like your confidence in the group PA thing. Please elaborate with Paul and others how that might work. I am looking for any improvement at this point that is acceptable to the majority; would be fun to give that a run.

EnergyGardener

Paul
21st March 2012, 00:22
However, I like your confidence in the group PA thing. Please elaborate with Paul and others how that might work. I am looking for any improvement at this point that is acceptable to the majority; would be fun to give that a run.
You can try it yourself.

Click on "Groups", in the menu bar near the top of this screen.
Look around on the next screen to see what groups already exist that you might be interested in viewing or joining.
To create a new group, click on the "Create Group" button, left side near top of the next screen.
You will see a screen to define your new group, giving it a name and description, choosing whether just members or the public can read, and choosing whether people need your approval to join. You could for example let anyone join, and anyone view it, but then (as the creator of the group) subsequently remove someone if you so desired.
Once created, as the group owner, you can subsequently delete the group if you like (on the "Admin" pull down menu you will see when viewing the group.)

So far as I know, any forum member can safely experiment with this.

Unlike quoting, linking, and IMG, VIDEO and YOUTUBE posting, which generate an unending stream of questions and confusions that I respond to, I almost never hear mention of these groups. People create and abandon or delete them, almost always without question and without my notice. They "just seem to work."

Cilka
21st March 2012, 01:07
Can we just get along at least here? The whole world is screwed up. How do we suppose to make the world more welcoming when everywhere you turn people cannot stand each other? I want to go back 20 years, when people were still humans and not mechanical over sensitive machines. I need to build a time machine.

Paranormal
21st March 2012, 01:49
If you are starting a group, to test a thread out - can you include me? I'd be interested to see how it evolves and if anyone else starts an "anti-thread"

mosquito
21st March 2012, 01:51
In the year that I've been a member here, one thing has continued to stand out, the fact that this forum is a reflection of humanity's collective attributes, both good and bad.

The OP has raised a perfectly valid point, one which seems to be brought up on an almost daily basis - the appaling lack of respect that some people insist on showing to their fellow members. Now, look at human society - people treat each other badly, disrespectfully, abusively, downright rudely; others rightly complain, and then we end up with rules and laws. As time progresses, the rules and laws become ever-more intrusive and ridiculous, and society's freedoms are gradually eroded. Sound familiar ?

So my feeling is that we need to sort this out without recourse to a "ban" button, or before long we'll have a "vapourize the bastard" button (probably being worked on by DARPA as I speak)

aranuk
21st March 2012, 02:03
Hi EG, you haven't addressed my last post. The thought just occurred to me that the author of the thread will need sleep. he/she will not be online for many hours. In that time 50 posts could have been posted and by that time it is too late.
How do you get round that?

Stan

Stan,

Having at one's disposal the "Ban" button would be helpful to reduce the "negative" swarming that occurs often now. This alone will serve as a significant deterrent. Sort of like the burglar knowing the homeowner is a gun owner and capable of using it.

Second, I have ended many a stalemate with the phrase (used here too), "Let's Agree to Disagree." Oftentimes it works, but occasionally not.

Your point is not so much of my concern, because the "negatives" argument is usually for the riled response of the author. While I realize this might be considered great training for patience, thoughtful creative response, etc., it is time consuming, distracting and deflates the lofty spirit and hope of the thread. After awhile, "enough is enough," one way or another. For now, "enough is enough" means, good people leave. I would like to change, "enough is enough," to boot negatives from good threads.

If someone wants to bump a thread 50 to 60 times without the thread author's response, I doubt if the author would mind. It is the actual and sincere banter with author that sucks out the energy, wearing thin a once lofty point, even making it seem moot.

I didn't respond previously because I didn't believe the "Ban" button applied to that circumstance. But if you are in fact asking a serious question; if something crazy like that did get out of hand, and to the author's displeasure upon awakening, then perhaps he can request a mod to help clean things up?

Stan, you have requested and I have responded; you have now heard my ideas, extensively. I have not heard yours, only questions.

Do you believe there is a problem? I would like to know your proposal for one or more solutions, if you in fact, offer any?

You said to me in this post

"Stan, you have requested and I have responded; you have now heard my ideas, extensively. I have not heard yours, only questions.

Do you believe there is a problem? I would like to know your proposal for one or more solutions, if you in fact, offer any? "


Can I say here now for the record, that my 11th post, my 15th post, my 19th post, my 34th post, my 60th post I offered suggestions ONLY. None of these posts (look and check for yourself) were questions at all but were suggestions. My ONLY post that had a question was my last one because you never once responded to any of my suggestions at all. Out of exasperation I asked you to comment on the last post I had made.

If you are serious in this plan you have, can I suggest that I will NOT be participating any any of your threads EVER. You seem to be blinkered in your obsessive way to go about this stuff. Can I say here that you need to reconsider this whole idea. Your behaviour in response to me is absolutely despicable.

Stan

Daozen
21st March 2012, 02:14
Community ability to collapse comments seems like a decent compromise. Even better to learn how to disengage.

aranuk
21st March 2012, 02:17
Community ability to collapse comments seems like a decent compromise. Even better to learn how to disengage.

Can you be clearer please?

Stan

EnergyGardener
21st March 2012, 02:31
How about, "Let's End this Thread" button? The day is about over and I've enjoyed all of the discourse; things ended about as I expected.

And, like all of you, I need to move on; I am satisfied to know the results. Thank you all for your supportive and opposing comments; this was not a "safe" subject.

I will ponder a New Group thread to see if productivity of my idea can develop better in that way. If not, well, there are always other options.

This idea (not the STAY OFF MY THREAD R & B Button), like all of them, seems to have been given to me to create a very important seed:

"It is the responsibility of special volunteers to bridge between the 3rd and the 5th after the shift?" Particularly those familiar with those left behind, Earth and the magic and beauty of things in the 3rd. I believe this is vital and needed, since so many will remain in the 3rd; at least as they appear now—most people I know remain clueless. Provide me a Private Message if you feel drawn to participate.

tonius
21st March 2012, 02:54
[Having at one's disposal the "Ban" button would be helpful to reduce the "negative" swarming that occurs often now. This alone will serve as a significant deterrent. Sort of like the burglar knowing the homeowner is a gun owner and capable of using it.

The problem here is that what you call your home,avalon, is yours as much as the burglar's , how is he supposed to ''awake'' to his reason if you just keep ''shooting'' at him( threats of ban), and dont take 2 minutes to tell him he is ''robbing'' his own home. Wasn't avalon about this, many are ready (not me) to wellcome beings that aren't even from this density, the modern gods, and yet we want to punish people on earth because of their current levell of understanding.

Weren't you once yourself a ''burglar'' too, wasn't everyone of us, and we still are from time to time, if i had banned my brother, or parents everytime every time i felt they were ''screwing'' with me, being ''negative'' towards me i would be without a family. And we know that even with our closest loved ones, words can easily get out of control. Give a ban button to everyone in this world and tomorrow there would be no human left on earth, we would cancel out each other.

That negativity you talk about, i know it sounds wierd, is part of the expansion of the understanding. Hiding from it is like asking the Light to exist without the darkness, you dont need to follow it, but you cant run scared from it for the sake of your ''peace'', thats not peace, thats adding another layer of illusion to the already existing illusion. I am not against you protecting your home, my question is when did it become ONLY yours, you are so concentrated on protecting it that you might one day open the door and witness the cost of your ''shootings'' , the '' bodies'' of all the so called ''burglars'' , some of wich maybe werent there even to rob you but maybe to ask for directon, maybe with a strong voice wich you mistaked for a sign of threat, or some new neibghour knocking to present himself. See, you just killed your real home, now you can enjoy that empty mass of bricks and wood.

We make avalon , even the ''negative'' ones, not the opposite, and as we change every day , so does it, in the outside it may seem for the worse but i see it differently, it just represent the reality of what the situation is now, it is what it is, trying to cut it in half is dreaming. When we dont willingly ban , not because we read books where is advised to be positive , all loving , but because we understand that we are all travellers with different , unique paths trying to walk a piece of the way together, we understand that the one near us is being ''negative'' or has such attitude because maybe he had a more ''tortuous'' path, maybe climbing on rocks without shoes while you and me took the bus. he just needs time to calm down while me and you get our arse out of the buss, and take some fresh air.

As its clear most of this is an analogy, to give better the idea, and is directed not only to you but to me and everyone else, its easy to take part in ''shooting'' campains anly to realise later, when its too late, what you have done. And even if , in some way my idea of your post might have been, as you would call it negative, for the reasons above, i would have never come up with the ''burglar's analogy, and, through it remind myself better why i am here, what i am and how does it translate in practical terms, so in some way, you HELPED ME, independently from my thoughts about your post, in fact what began as a mind matter turned to a heart matter, and i am seeing it as i write, so thank you.

Please don't shoot me ... i have the keyes too :) ( couldn't resist some humor, apologies, have to balance this seriousness vibe )

Craig
21st March 2012, 03:48
This is a very passionate subject and usually a key for me to avoid, but reading the posts I have had a thought, would it be possible that instead of a remove and ban option that we elaborate on the agree to disagree option, for example, I create a thread, Craig is God and here is why - completely false but hear me out. A poster comes on and says Craig you are an idiot and here is why - not being a god I wouldn't be able to smote them remotely but if there was an option open only to the thread creator where they can click the A2D (agree to disagree) button and that opens up a text box for the creator to directly repond to that response in an alternate font and colour. In this instance I would say thank for your post x but I don't believe you have the feeling of the thread at heart and here is why This could leave a better audit trail for those who may come to the post late and see that it has eventuated into a he said they replied scenario. Other posters will see the author respond to direct messages and can see whether or not it is a fair approach or becoming a personal attack.

We do need the ablilty to question what we read especially on any areas we don't fully understand, maybe sometimes the questions are asked in a manner that can be misconstrued as rude. If the creator becomes personal in their responses, firstly it will tarnish the original thread and secondly perhaps include the option to report the reply to the mods for further follow up.

That way people can choose to stay and partake or move on to a new thread.

PS I need to appear in a tortilla in mexico I'll be off now. (sorry M.Groening)

another bob
21st March 2012, 04:29
... not being a god I wouldn't be able to smote them remotely


There's always the direct approach...


http://i44.tinypic.com/2bxpw7.gif



:yo:

Craig
21st March 2012, 04:45
Bob, is there some mirroring going on? the right hand side person seems to be sticking his right arm in yet the left hand side guy is being whacked by a left arm. the idea is good though. lucky i have a flat screen and not a CRT for the full wind up affect.

another bob
21st March 2012, 04:52
Bob, is there some mirroring going on? the right hand side person seems to be sticking his right arm in yet the left hand side guy is being whacked by a left arm. the idea is good though. lucky i have a flat screen and not a CRT for the full wind up affect.

Hmmm.... maybe your right. Of course, there's an even more direct approach:


http://i39.tinypic.com/jzwr34.gif


:yo:

Solstyse
21st March 2012, 04:54
Bob, is there some mirroring going on? the right hand side person seems to be sticking his right arm in yet the left hand side guy is being whacked by a left arm. the idea is good though. lucky i have a flat screen and not a CRT for the full wind up affect.

Hmmm.... maybe your right. Of course, there's an even more direct approach:


http://i39.tinypic.com/jzwr34.gif


:yo:

Or we can always practice the love that we preach and love the inflammatories as much as we love the people who pat us on the back.

another bob
21st March 2012, 05:04
Or we can always practice the love that we preach and love the inflammatories as much as we love the people who pat us on the back.

You mean, walk the walk, instead of just talking the talk? That would be . . . revolutionary!


http://i44.tinypic.com/2d0jl91.gif

Craig
21st March 2012, 05:30
I always try to walk a mile in the other person's shoes, to try and understand their point of view, unfortunately I am miles from home and have a barrow full of shoes, still none the wiser though.

Anchor
21st March 2012, 05:47
Energy Gardener my friend

Your name gives it all away!

You want to be a gardener in your threads of energy

It is quite understandable, but Avalon wont work that way.

Trust that those seeds you plant, that need to grow, will grow.

Weed killer not needed - LOL

Just more Energy.

John..

ScubaMonkey
21st March 2012, 07:00
This is not an entirely unappealing idea, but I feel many of the worlds problems come from the fact that too many people only ever hear opinions that reinforce their own view. Your own opinion may be right or wrong but to close you mind to a counter argument - whether or not It's valid - can't be good. Gota take the rough with the smooth, I reckon!

Mad Hatter
21st March 2012, 08:29
Mad Hatter unsure of which hat specifically suits the particular style of comment he wishes to make shoves a random selection on his nut and proceeds forward anyway...

Due diligence cap...

With all due respect to the OP did they go to any effort to check if this subject has been previously covered. If not why not? I know from the time I've been here this issue has been raised more than once but alas the PA repository has yet another thread on effectively the same subject matter making it's usefulness as a resource for research that much more unwieldy due to the scattered nature of source material. I reaslise that some don't like the idea of old threads being ressurected but this approach would at least keep dialogue on a particular subject in the same place and thus save those with an interest in said subject matter from having to re-invent the wheel so to speak by inadvertently repeating things that have already been said.

Contrarian cap... (one of my favourites)

I wear this one on regular occasions as means of Socratic inquistion in an attempt to draw out further argument / analysis. *doesn't always work* It is however the one I would have to retire if what you wish to implement where to become so, unless of course like Pie your intelligent enough to understand and accept what I am attempting to do.

Respect cap...

Out of respect for those involved I don't venture to comment much in some threads because my albeit poor discerning ability tells me that my prepoderence for a more robust conversation would be misunderstood and not welcome. ie the touchy feely ones where a simple request for something resembling substantiation seems to be an unbearable proposition to deal with. To a certain extent I am a little dissapointed when denizens of such threads through what I percieve as lack of respect venture into the general discussion area and expect the temperature to be exactlty the same as the warm little pond they just left. *hello, welcome to the big bad world*.

Reality cap...

The scientific process being one of the better tools mankind has invented for problem solving works on the basis that nothing can be proved absolutely only disproved. If we liken that to a thread then what happens is an OP puts up a thesis and the rest of the crowd attempt to poke holes in it. If the thesis still stands at the end of the exercise then it can be said to be valid up to that point. By going down the path of banning naysayers one is simply inviting the problem of confirmation bias. *think IPCC*

Sarcasm cap...

I know it's said to be the lowest form of wit but it is quite often easier to make a point that way, considering the international language barriers, than the more hi-brow format of irony which may have a tendency to be lost in the culutral translation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

It should also be pointed out that offence can only be taken not given, so much like beauty it remains in the eyes *or ears* of the beholder.

Aussie humour cap...*not everyone's cup of tea*

Having said all of that this about sums up my current feelings on these types of threads.

WARNING BAD LANGUAGE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh6pZQX22CQ

cheers

Referee
21st March 2012, 08:34
I do not believe this concept is a good one it would allow Trolls to take over DFTT.

Ilie Pandia
21st March 2012, 14:43
Hello,

I've just finished reading this thread. Paul guessed right, in my estimation implementing such a change is a big project. The vBulletin platform is a complex piece of software and any tampering needs to be done very very carefully, especially on a forum with such high traffic as Avalon.

Right now I don't have the time (nor the motivation to make time) to address this issue in the manner you suggest. If there are coders that want to give it a try, then they should develop this on their forum and then send me their plugin/changes for review, but I reserve the right to install it on not. (Simply because the Avalon Forum is highly customised so I need to make sure any new plugin will not break anything).

That being said, my opinion is that your suggestion will not work as expected. We still have members abusing the posts formatting, the title of threads, quoting outside material, posting copyrighted material, the signature features and so on... such a power ban feature will most surely back fire due to abuse.

As Paul has already suggested, post can be reported as being off-topic and we will look into it. Groups can also be used. Yes, groups are not "public" per se, but if you have a look at how they work and their various options I think will find them more to your liking, because you basically want to have a conversation moderated by you.

Another option (that I also personally use), is to have your personal blog (free and quite easy to setup) and there you get to moderate what is being posted as comments and so on, and you get to build your own "thread" in the way you want. The only requirement we have is not to use Avalon as a tool to promote a website that simply sells stuff. That will not be allowed.

And, I've also seen posters who somehow manage to keep their treads on track, despite the occasional attacks or off-topic posts. So it's possible :)

Using the ignore feature may also work.

another bob
21st March 2012, 16:39
"Humility is very, very important. Everybody wants to win a point, win an argument, win a fight, and yet if you have humility, it never comes into your mind to win or get even. Say somebody slaps you. The first thing our ego will tell us is to beat them up, slap them back, shoot them, kill them, get even with them. But if we're wise, we'll understand the reason we were slapped on the face. Therefore, anything that has ever happened to you in any area of your life, no matter how it looks, you are in your right place. No one is picking on you, no one is trying to do anything to you. No one is trying to hurt you. If you cooperate and do not react and do not retaliate, and send out a message of love and peace, then you will transcend that .....

But if you retaliate and you try to win the battle, you may appear to be winning the battle this instant, you may appear to be getting somewhere, but the fruits of your actions must return sooner or later. Therefore, you are playing games with yourself and you'll never get anywhere; you'll keep repeating the situation again and again and again, with different people, you may move to a different state, be involved in different situations, but you will find the same problems.

Therefore, whatever seems wrong in your life, whatever seems terrible, do not look at the problem in itself as a problem. Rise above it, realize no one is to blame for it, you have no enemies, no one is trying to hurt you. This is humility.

You're not a coward, you're not a wimp. You have risen above that kind of thinking. That kind of thinking does not exist. That's why the story of Ramana Maharshi, when he went for a walk in the jungle one day, and he inadvertantly stepped into a wasps' nest, and the wasps started stinging him, he didn't even pull his leg out, but he spoke to the wasps and said: "I deserve this, I invaded the house where you live and I deserve what you are doing to my leg, and if you want, you can attack the other leg."

When he got back to the ashram from his walk, he was bitten all through the leg and had to put ointment on it. But he wasn't fazed one bit. He had a perpetual smile on his face, with the realization "All is well." Now look at your lives. Think of the things that bother you every day, that annoy you every day, the things that make you angry, that make you upset, that make you want to retaliate. Get rid of this."

~ Silence of the Heart: Dialogues With Robert Adams

:yo:

Dennis-G
21st March 2012, 19:26
At another forum I belong to they advise the members that they are member-moderators. This is your moderator button → http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/buttons/report-40b.png On this other forum, if three people report a post it is automatically removed from the thread until a moderator reviews it, at which time the mod can either then restore or delete the post. If three people report a thread (the first post in a thread) it will also be removed.

I don't know if this forum is set up to work that way, but this system works very well at keeping things clean. Whether it is how this forum works or not, if more members took their role as a member-moderator more seriously there would be fewer problematic threads and posts, if the other forum is any indication of the effectiveness of member moderation.

Some people may feel like they are "telling" on someone if they report a post. In my opinion, those who feel it isn't right to report offensive posts are letting childhood guilt trips affect their reasoning. Those guilt trips were very likely a manipulation attempt. You can choose to quit allowing it to manipulate you.

Being a member-moderator is about protecting the forum, not about being a stool pigeon. If you value the forum, then surely you should want to protect it, no? Instead of slumping in your chair and stewing in your own juices over problematic commentary, be proactive and report it. The mods can decide and act according to their discretion. The mods can't be everywhere though, so often they don't know there is a problem unless YOU report it.

With this power comes responsibility. Reporting posts you simply disagree with would not be a responsible use of your moderation button.

What often happens on forums is that people disagree in a disagreeable manner. Without a little less ego, one can disagree in a respectful manner. That has a much better chance of winning converts to your way of thinking than an attack will. Attacking someone is a proven way to harden their position, thus defeating your own purpose of explaining your disagreement. Unless, of course, you're just a jerk who likes to upset people. If that's the case, remember the law of cause and effect. You will get your comeuppance one day.

This is getting long so I shall stop here.

Ba-ba-Ra
21st March 2012, 20:16
The question to ask ourselves is: Is it more important to be right - or is it more important to be in harmony.

That doesn't mean you have to submit to someone else's truth. It simply means to state yours without argument. And try to listen to your own tone, sometimes in this hurried world and the briefness of posts, we aren't cognizant enough of our tone. Often it's not what we're saying, but how we're saying it. I try to reread my posts after I written them. Often I will change a word that wasn't meant to be combative, but on 2nd view I see it could be taken that way.

EnergyGardener
21st March 2012, 20:18
Dennis, Illie, Anchor and All Responders,

Anchor, the Roundup has been safely shelved. I knew it would be a hot topic, I was not disappointed.:flame: But it had to be aired for a hoped for solution.:first:

I very much appreciate and like Dennis-G's idea; it will not be the first or last time a cheesehead rushes in to save the day. Perhaps for those that choose to support serious and constructive focused dialogue for a creative (and therefore more vulnerable) thread, organization is developed in advance by author with at least two co-sponsors. Then, if the the focus is derailed or attacked, three of them can hit the "report" button to stop the distractions. Perhaps, it also advised to have members from each Europe, N. America and Australia, to address Stan's "while you were sleeping" issue.

To that note, Stan, my apologies for upsetting you.:yield: I sincerely thought you were kidding, initially. Then, I answered you on the basis that I believe these things usually occur while the author is very much awake, exacerbated as they themselves are banging back in anger in attempts to right the ship.:smash: While, you promised not to ever respond to any of my threads, I will not hold you to that.:nod: For what it's worth, your new photo appears that you are a rather happy and fine gent excepting yesterday evening; it was kind of you to share your likeness.:yo:

Will be fun when we can all do so; have to still take care of business in a world that remains substantially asleep.:sleep:

Also, thanks again to those that have expressed interest in working on my new project. We will do the initial work on the "Group Thing," then will break out with the results on a regular Thread in several weeks, perhaps giving Dennis-G's idea here a trial run. The new thread / series is a bit out there, but nagging at my gut to go.

If Anchor, Paul and Ilie sign on to Dennis G's proposal, we must inform Pie, Darla and all others departed that they only need two supporters to help them maintain sanity / control. Perhaps then we'll be blessed again with the familiar image of Pie's smooth head on our screens.;)

And Darla, I miss Darla, that sweet woman!:angel:


EnergyGardener

Dennis-G
21st March 2012, 20:51
I very much appreciate and like Dennis-G's idea; it will not be the first or last time a cheesehead rushes in to save the day.

I busted a gut laughing out loud at that. Thanks for the smile.

To clarify, while you could recruit co-sponsors it often isn't necessary. The other forum I referred to has enough responsible members that offensive threads/posts/spam are just reported by any three random members and kaboom, it's removed for moderation. If things are slow, some folks will send a PM or a Skype message to a friend or two asking them to report the post if they agree it's inappropriate, but for the most part even that much isn't necessary. To get to that point, however, requires an emphasis on being a member-moderator, and not much emphasis is made of that here (the emphasis is made by way of an entry in the TOS when you sign up and as a "sticky" at the top of the main forum.

This feature may be built into vbulletin as that's what this other forum uses, I think, but it's also been customized so it may not be a built in feature.