PDA

View Full Version : 'The Materialists'



niki
9th April 2012, 04:30
Two pressing important questions come into my mind lately, which I hope to seek answers from fellow lightworkers and truth-seekers here:

1) How could you convince "The Materialists", which I define as these many, perhaps even majority of people/human beings which are all around us every day, whom are still thinking that "the physical world, and the 'reality' they're seeing everyday (whether in the mainstream TV, newspaper, media) is ALL there is of Existence. nothing more!"?
How could you convince these kind of people, to change their mind, or the very least, to acknowledge that there IS/ARE Bigger Realities out there, more than meets the eye?
I even have encountered these Materialists in my own family (me being the only minority, obviously), and among my daily friends, and many other people. To these people, it's really hard to ever talk about all these 'Ascension' or even spiritual-related stuff, and they will readily dismiss 'em all as pure BS (bull****s) and nonsense which has no base on Reality whatsoever!
What's ironically funny though is how I've found many, if not most, of them will be soo readily got deeply obedient with their religions and religious dogmas, more than the REAL spiritual (or Truth)-seeking!

Which brings to my next important pressing question:

2) After you all lightworkers here know about the 'Bigger Realities' sort of outside of this 'physical/material world',
then how can you still keep your Faith (and Hope) so much?
and how can do you live every day, in day-to-day basis?
most importantly, how do you adjust now with the -unfortunately- still a VERY materialist world in our 'mainstream' society today,
ie: for example most people still value MONEY, profits, and will do literally ANYTHING just to get these two 'petty' yet very dominating-and-controlling things in our current society.
How can you still keep BELIEVING in what you're believing, and know for sure that "all these things will definitely CHANGE for sure (perhaps particularly, in this so-called Year of 2012)?

Answers to these two questions would surely help to clear a lot of my constant confusions,
as well as providing more sense of Purpose and meaning, to know also what I have to really do then.

Endity
9th April 2012, 04:46
Well I just typed out a real thought out response to your question and when I submitted it it just said the website was unavailable. SO I will save this spot and in the morning I will type what I feel again. I just can't do it again right now lol. I am fairly depressed that all I wrote just GONE :>

Carmen
9th April 2012, 05:03
Okay, to your first question: Do not share what you are learning with those who are not interested! This is a complete waste of time. Be the example to those around you of what spiritual understanding and advancement is, kindness, tolerance, acceptance, inner peace, etc. It is not until one 'becomes' the spiritual understanding of what they are learning do others around them start to notice. Just 'knowing about' doesn't do it. That's the wannabe stage! Spiritual growth and understanding takes time, patience and nurturing! Make it your best kept secret and in time it will become evident to others around you that you are on to something. When they ask that is your opportunity. Even then, let your Inner Self answer, not your personality. Talking about what you are learning and understanding to people who are asleep and not interested is what is meant by the term, 'casting pearls before swine'! They will trash your ideas and knowledge.

How do people keep 'faith' in what they have learned and experienced?

The word 'experience' is the key! Once we experience something directly, it cannot be taken away from us. We 'know' and that 'knowing' becomes stronger and clearer the more we tap into our own 'inner self'. Faith is needed to keep going and to never give up something we wish to experience but once we have that 'inner connection' we 'know' and faith is superseded. Life becomes easier. We don't have to chase after material things any more, they sort of just appear after we think them. Material 'things' become less important anyway and we often get more pleasure in giving things away. We are now on our 'souls journey'.

Every interaction with others becomes important and special. If we have hits of emotion with certain people we go and contemplate on what that hit has to teach us. After all anyone outside of us is mirroring us, back to us, otherwise we would never recognize the mirror. So, that is humbling to recognize. Time alone becomes precious and necessary as introspection, meditation etc become more important than parties and socializing. This is not something we force on ourselves, it just comes naturally. Old friends fall away as we outgrow them and eventually we meet a whole new set of friends, those of our spiritual family on a similar journey.

xeon
9th April 2012, 05:43
Hi Niki, basically what you are expressing is doubt. Doubt that always lingers on the back of your mind. I know this only too well. It is a dilemma that cannot be answered easily by anyone, because we are talking about 2 different worlds.

Case in point.

I have a friend who is basically working hard to get himself off his slavery (that is how he describes it) job. I was very surprised when long ago he asked me if I knew anything about Alex Jones. It seems he was one of the "awakened" ones. That was some years ago.

Today, my friend still keeps an eye on things by asking me to keep him updated now and again on "conspiracy news", but he has basically gone off "conspiracy/alternative" stuff. He tried to quit his job and find a means to work from home, but that didn't work out well. And I long surmised that it is very hard for him to be immersed in the corporate world today (which is his job), and yet go home and read about aliens and all that stuff, you know.....It is basically 180 degree mental adjustment, and very few people (if any) can pull that off successfully.

Basically, this is the dilemma that everyone who took the red pill, will need to face. Two different worlds. The pull of the physical world is so very much stronger I should say, whereas the non physical world cannot be proven completely, in all cases.

And that is why there is seemingly so much hate and vitriol for people who say that one of these 2 worlds is about to end soon (prime example is David Wilcock)...Many people do not really hate David Wilcock; it is his message that is splitting hairs and nails.

I call this The Dilemma.... :yo:

markpierre
9th April 2012, 08:37
Why do you ever need to convince anyone of anything? Are you absolutely certain that what you see or think you realize is real?

wavydome
9th April 2012, 12:36
Why do you ever need to convince anyone of anything? Are you absolutely certain that what you see or think you realize is real?

Markpierre, If i may, this is my perception and agreement, with what you said. This is my response to the OP.

It is actually risky to forcebly tell people what to think. Establish, somehow, in advance, that free will allows another's personal reality. This needs to precede any in-depth discussion of another's reality. But such technicalities are not a likely talking point. We will benefit greatly, if we have some experience with the breadth and depth of countless personal realities, all around us. Indeed, by far, the most common realities are matrix-materialist in scope.

Polite inquiry, as with continued appropriate questions, asked of the materialist, is the safest way. Leading questions, if gentle and not commandeering can open consentual dialog. It should allow their reality, no matter how solid or obstinate it might appear. Each answer given by the materialist deserves an acknowledgment (but not necessarily agreement) of some kind. Some materialist will resent too much softness others will desperately want commiseration. Avoid evaluating these things in their face. Simply ask politely and acknowledge their response, very simply, but never complex. Don't answer for them. Let them discover these things, as they release the tensions of material or emotional strings. The strings of materialist convictions-- That belief that humans are just chemical reaction, but nothing else. Let one first be invited into their confidence, to help them talk these thing out. If and when they pronounce a new realization of sorts, be sure to thank them for that and indicate you see how it fit together, only after their seeing such them self.

I would avoid highly charged words like ascension or idealism, etc... Instead, absolutely try to focus on words or concepts or works they can share on their own.

markpierre
9th April 2012, 17:48
I guess I would avoid evaluating anything.

There's nothing wrong with warning a teenager with a new drivers license not to drink and drive, or not to go too fast. Those warnings didn't help me out all that much, but experience did. Carmen had some good insights.
Sometimes new drivers kill themselves. Is that a 'mistake'? I don't know....it depends on what you think the world is for. It wasn't because they didn't listen to me. If all that remains is the pleasure of being 'right', then I would
rather have been wrong.
You can train a dog to behave like a human, but it takes away a fair bit of the dog. So what does it accomplish? Better companionship for me?

If I think that 'reality' is threatened by someone else's ignorance or mistakes, I live a pretty fragile and vulnerable existence. That's my 'experience'. It certainly has nothing to do with reality.

RMorgan
9th April 2012, 17:59
Hey mate,

There´s nothing more boring than trying to convince people of something.

The very word, convince, means that one part wins and the other part loses.

Try to avoid engaging in conversations where the other parts involved are not interested in learning/listening and having a healthy debate.

Convincing is not a good way to educate, because it means you´re using strategies to impose your beliefs to other people.

Cheers,

Raf.

nearing
10th April 2012, 15:13
Two pressing important questions come into my mind lately, which I hope to seek answers from fellow lightworkers and truth-seekers here:

1) How could you convince "The Materialists", which I define as these many, perhaps even majority of people/human beings which are all around us every day, whom are still thinking that "the physical world, and the 'reality' they're seeing everyday (whether in the mainstream TV, newspaper, media) is ALL there is of Existence. nothing more!"?
How could you convince these kind of people, to change their mind, or the very least, to acknowledge that there IS/ARE Bigger Realities out there, more than meets the eye?
I even have encountered these Materialists in my own family (me being the only minority, obviously), and among my daily friends, and many other people. To these people, it's really hard to ever talk about all these 'Ascension' or even spiritual-related stuff, and they will readily dismiss 'em all as pure BS (bull****s) and nonsense which has no base on Reality whatsoever!
What's ironically funny though is how I've found many, if not most, of them will be soo readily got deeply obedient with their religions and religious dogmas, more than the REAL spiritual (or Truth)-seeking!

Which brings to my next important pressing question:

2) After you all lightworkers here know about the 'Bigger Realities' sort of outside of this 'physical/material world',
then how can you still keep your Faith (and Hope) so much?
and how can do you live every day, in day-to-day basis?
most importantly, how do you adjust now with the -unfortunately- still a VERY materialist world in our 'mainstream' society today,
ie: for example most people still value MONEY, profits, and will do literally ANYTHING just to get these two 'petty' yet very dominating-and-controlling things in our current society.
How can you still keep BELIEVING in what you're believing, and know for sure that "all these things will definitely CHANGE for sure (perhaps particularly, in this so-called Year of 2012)?

Answers to these two questions would surely help to clear a lot of my constant confusions,
as well as providing more sense of Purpose and meaning, to know also what I have to really do then.

Niki, your post ironically coincided with my thread about the CPAK. My answer to your questions are in my small thread. Please check it out.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43462-Conference-on-Precession-and-Ancient-Knowledge&highlight=Precession+ancient+knowledge

I think you will feel better after you realize where we are in the Great Year (the ages of man). You won't need to convince anyone of anything. Give them time and they will discover it for themselves. I know we are impatient and want that to happen all of a sudden and now, but all is unraveling just as it should and after Dec of this year, the pace will pick up.

I promise. :-)

Neptun
10th April 2012, 15:28
Two pressing important questions come into my mind lately, which I hope to seek answers from fellow lightworkers and truth-seekers here:

1) How could you convince "The Materialists", which I define as these many, perhaps even majority of people/human beings which are all around us every day, whom are still thinking that "the physical world, and the 'reality' they're seeing everyday (whether in the mainstream TV, newspaper, media) is ALL there is of Existence. nothing more!"?
How could you convince these kind of people, to change their mind, or the very least, to acknowledge that there IS/ARE Bigger Realities out there, more than meets the eye?
I even have encountered these Materialists in my own family (me being the only minority, obviously), and among my daily friends, and many other people. To these people, it's really hard to ever talk about all these 'Ascension' or even spiritual-related stuff, and they will readily dismiss 'em all as pure BS (bull****s) and nonsense which has no base on Reality whatsoever!
What's ironically funny though is how I've found many, if not most, of them will be soo readily got deeply obedient with their religions and religious dogmas, more than the REAL spiritual (or Truth)-seeking!

Which brings to my next important pressing question:

2) After you all lightworkers here know about the 'Bigger Realities' sort of outside of this 'physical/material world',
then how can you still keep your Faith (and Hope) so much?
and how can do you live every day, in day-to-day basis?
most importantly, how do you adjust now with the -unfortunately- still a VERY materialist world in our 'mainstream' society today,
ie: for example most people still value MONEY, profits, and will do literally ANYTHING just to get these two 'petty' yet very dominating-and-controlling things in our current society.
How can you still keep BELIEVING in what you're believing, and know for sure that "all these things will definitely CHANGE for sure (perhaps particularly, in this so-called Year of 2012)?

Answers to these two questions would surely help to clear a lot of my constant confusions,
as well as providing more sense of Purpose and meaning, to know also what I have to really do then.

Why should you convince them? Save the energy. if they don't listen first time, then you can be sure they will not listen after 1000 tries.the only thing you get out of it is allot of waste of energy.

See this as your personally hobby and keep it to yourself if they clearly are not on the same page with this information.

Regarding money. I don't see why the money game should exclude being spiritual.
cJXcgCVQE-k

A0bkREYS4VY

niki
12th April 2012, 06:51
Thanks for all the comments and responses, as usual, I've learned a lot from them!

However/nevertheless, I'm still afraid that most of these 'Materialists' still can't, nor willing to see that "something BIG is currently happening that would change our whole paradigm shift."
Thus, in my opinion, what they largely need is a DRAMATIC shock (just like the excellent quote from the movie Batman Begins: "people often need dramatic (or tragic) examples to shake them out of apathy."), to really Change these huge population to really 'Wake Up'.

All of you here have given great answers,
But, like I've said above, it is my feelings (upon my own observation too) that if humanity is about to really change, drastically, then to change such a LARGE/HUGE populations of still what I would termed 'The Materialists' (please see my recent thread on this one), I sincerely feel that a HUGE, pressing, and even perhaps a shocking, catalysmic event(s) have to happen first, in order to truly WAKE UP these people. and only after then, we as the Lightworkers can really start to infuse our message(s) much much more easily, without feeling hopeless as if we're one person fighting against one million persons out there that often think the otherwise!

And the 'good news' is: whether coincidentally or cosmically/providentially, I'm starting to see these 'DRAMATIC' changes starting to happen, in this year (or rather, THE year) 2012. all the social unrests, the nature's signs, even some strange unusual signs, sounds, etc.
However, it's still not too DRAMATIC enough to really 'slap' the large/huge population of those Materialists, to really finally able to open their eyes -so to speak- and to finally start looking for the 'alternative' answers, ie: that there are much MORE things outside of their physical/material reality and all their status, money-driven material pursuits.

This is why I can't stress enough the importance of the 'external helps' (if there's really any) to help shape the next path of human's evolution. whether it's from non-physical entities, from higher dimensions/realms, E.Ts, Galactic Federation of Light, Pleiadians, angels, or 'higher gods', etc etc.
Somehow, I feel that we can't do this alone.
To create such a HUGE change, a 'miracle' is needed at utmost,
and that's where these 'external helps' would play their HUGE roles in helping us, the Lightworkers, to start infusing our 'new reality' message(s), so those large mainstream 'Materialists' people would finally start to LISTEN, take heed, and actually really pay attention to us, without much resistance and even mockery, rejection anymore "because there is NO PHYSICAL proof of what we're saying", as they (the Materialists) would often said (based on my own personal experience myself).

So yes, If BIG, HUGE evolutionary Changes is about to really happen, especially starting from this year 2012, then I truly feel that we all need to be ONE, and as well as involving those 'external helps/entities', to really come WHOLE, so we're all able to create such HUGE, BIG Changes needed for this paradigm shift!
Remember, Together is always much more stronger, than if we're only to fight alone by ourselves.

What do you all think about this?

niki
16th April 2012, 21:04
no more reply to my post above?...

greybeard
16th April 2012, 21:16
no more reply to my post above?...

Hi Niki this might help
Chris

The link is the home of the video but seperate.


http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_movie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OibqdwHyZxk&feature=player_embedded

greybeard
16th April 2012, 21:55
Its important to meet people where thay stand--- the video I posted does that but also shakes their tree.
The banking system is not what they believe to be true for example.
One the belief system is shaken it looks for somthing else to believe in the person is therfore more open minded to spirituality etc.

Chris

Positive Vibe Merchant
16th April 2012, 22:46
People are only able to see what they are able to see with their own eyes.

greybeard
17th April 2012, 06:34
no more reply to my post above?...
Hi Niki
your posts are very full your points wel put.
Dont be dissapointed at the seeming lack of response.
You are new to Avalon and perhaps dont know that there have quite a few threads on this and similar topics. So the subject always valid has been well debated here over the years.
Regards Chris