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View Full Version : how about Suicide and Torture cases? is it written in 'Divine Plan' too?..



niki
15th May 2012, 11:10
As can be seen from my other threads,
I often act as a 'devil advocate', being surrounded everyday by the 'normal' people & society and the pragmatists, skeptics, "all-about-Money-and-profits" kind of daily ordinary people,
I can't help to keep wondering new question upon question,
because in the end, what I want is only one: the ULTIMATE Truth. not just some 'pretty made-up words' or wishful-thinking escapism only.

So hence, a very curious thought suddenly arise:

If all of these are said to be "written already in the Divine Plan" (whether by God/s, the Universe, the 'Matrix Creator/s' (Whoever/Whatever They might be)),
then how about those Suicide, and Torture cases?
you know:
- those mortal people who die in pain,
- those GOOD, kind people who have to undergo painful tortures, pains, and unwanted deaths
- and finally those GOOD people who can't stand any longer of the burdens exceeding their wants/needs to stay in this earthly world, and chose the final option: Suicide.

Can you still somewhat 'easily' say that "these are also part of the Divine Plan of the Universe/Gods/etc" ?...
again, I believe if this forum is all about seeking & searching for the ULTIMATE Truth,
then it shouldn't only be about 'good wish-wash' stuff all the time,
but have to deal with these HARD, 'realistic' question(s), and the 'BAD stuff' as well, in order to be fully complete and taking account ALL perspectives!

So, is there perhaps a 'Divine' or basically a well, logical, "Truth" explanation(s) for this curious 'realistic' matter, that always happened all across this world?

thanks
~regards from the Truth-seeker from Indonesia~

danceblackcatdance
15th May 2012, 11:23
i get what you are saying but can humans ever understand the 'divine plan'? i mean if it exits it is divine after all...

ultimate truth: change is the only constant :)

WyoSeeker
15th May 2012, 18:45
Hey Niki,

Why do bad things happen to good people is an age old question. This certainly means no offense, but my take is that the question itself shows a complete lack of understanding about how things work. The question implies someone is supposed to be judging what is "good" and what is "bad" and steering things accordingly.

In the eyes of the creator we are children playing in a sandbox, and no matter what games we play no real harm can come to us. Further, we change roles in lifetime after lifetime while we play these games. So if we can't be harmed and we swap roles back and forth why would the Creator interfere in the game? The whole point was to let us play.

Also, it seems certain that we associate with a "soul group" between lives and that we plan the major events and learning opportunities that will be a part of each life. Ultimately through this life planning and our incarnational creative powers exercised through the choices we make, even random seeming tragedies like accidents and disease are created by us at some level.

Ultimately there is no "good" or "bad", only radiating love in service to others or drawing in love from others in service to self. There are however laws in place, the universe reflects what you put out, as you sow so shall ye reap and karma is a bitch.


This is my own answer to that question and in my own life I've found there are no accident or coincidences. You can take it for what it's worth.

Unicorn
15th May 2012, 21:45
I wonder if we are slaves here as much as we are on the other side. Perhaps we are forced to come back to this plane, and endure so many challenges, just because "it is for your own good". Have you ever considered that the ones who are pulling the strings here could be the same operating on the other side?

noprophet
15th May 2012, 21:55
The plan, if anything, is freewill.

Freewill can be nasty from ground level.

Unicorn
15th May 2012, 22:03
The plan, if anything, is freewill.

Freewill can be nasty from ground level.

The best slave is the one who thinks s/he's free

OneLittleFrog
15th May 2012, 22:24
Good on ya for asking that, niki.



the question itself shows a complete lack of understanding about how things work.

See, there is no 'good' or 'bad', but pompousness in wondrous quantities. ;)

Anchor
15th May 2012, 22:39
How can anything that happens NOT be part of a "divine plan" ? One assumes that if there is one a divine plan would be precise, accurate and all encompassing.

The real question is: is there a divine plan?

I think not.

One of the most confusing aspects to our perception is time.

The very idea that there is a "plan" which is implies an intended orderly sequence of events, milestones and objectives designed to bring about some state is in my opinion misleading.

What I think there is, is a creation, in which stuff happens.

Anything goes - and it is all fractal timeless experience within the infinite experience of the one infinite creator.

Mulder
15th May 2012, 22:51
Ifeel suffering has a purpose, but I don't know exactly why we "need" or just do have suffering in our lives. I HOPE that before I was born I "agreed" the experiences that I'd go through in this life and consented to them.

RMorgan
15th May 2012, 22:52
Hey mate,

In my opinion, the "divine plan" is just another ideological strategy created by religions to transform people in conformist slaves.

So, this way, when a bad thing happens to someone, they donīt revolt or protest, because itīs "Godīs will", itīs part of the plan and so on...

People who believe this stuff will accept any tasks imposed to them, because itīs part of the "divine plan".

So, personally, I donīt buy it for a second.

History proves that this sort of religious ideologies always lead to slavery.

In my opinion, you make your own plan, working hard, day after day.

Cheers,

Raf.

OneLittleFrog
15th May 2012, 23:38
Wonderful RMorgan. I agree, but I could never have put it so well.

Evil exists in this world. We can justify it and divinify it all we want, but it's still there, and the innocent still suffer horribly. I can't shrug off the reality of that suffering with a belief they 'deserve' it or 'signed up' for it.

However I find one comfort -- this Cosmic Caligula who orchestrates the suffering of this world, who revels in the plagues and the famines and the slaughters, has NEVER been able to fully stomp out all the little seeds of love and hope and kindness that still spring up all over this world. Shell-shocked and weary these little seeds may be, but persistent as hell.:)

tenacity1
15th May 2012, 23:47
to the original question.. first, the far right and the far left have a big thing in common. They both have found ways to excuse themselves from those they are not comfortable thinking about.. the far right say those who are suffering are not right with God and need their version of God.The far left uses all kinds of neat ways of seeing stuff like "you picked this life now suffer" Both sides never really get to the crux of the matter which is the lack of empathy in this world. Our govts know that to rid a country of dead weight, ie the disabled, they have to make others see them as a burden.. this is what happens in America.. it's every man for himself and survival of the fittest. There are those who will tell you that they are evolved or awakened.. but believe me.. one has enough to do with managing ones own life rather than constantly thinking you can fit into any sides idea of who you are or what your morals and ethics should be. I think all religion etc and new age stuff should stay as personal as ones relationship with God is.. personal. and the conversations I have heard over 55 years would be as uncommon as talking about what underwear one wears. Maybe if folks stopped talking about awareness or religion and started living it, the world would be a far better place/. I don't think any of us can presume to know what God is thinking.I think all we can do is look for the LIGHT of love God left inside of s and hope for the best. All the rest is illusion

WyoSeeker
16th May 2012, 20:44
See, there is no 'good' or 'bad', but pompousness in wondrous quantities. ;)

This was a discussion my daughter and I had the day before this questions was posted. I took it as a bit synchronistic when I saw the question and just wanted to share the gyst of our discussion. It was meant with love, sorry if you or anyone else took it any other way. As I said you can take it for what it's worth.