Dmt

[Youniverse]

I started reading Rick Strassman's book called "DMT - The Spirit Molecule" today. I am very curious about the effects of DMT and it's role in our bodies. Has anyone on this forum ever used something like DMT (a psychedelic), LSD, Peyote, Ayahuasca, etc.? If so, I am very interested to hear about your experience, that is, if you can recall much of it. Moreover, do you see the Pineal Gland as the portal through which the spirit leaves the body at death? Or "the seat of the soul" as Descarte called it. Please share your experiences or knowledge on this topic with me!

[Kendall]

I too would like to try DMT, Joe Rogan raves about it.

[Rantaak]

You try it every night when you're sleeping. And right before and after.

There are a few threads related to this topic floating around here, I'm sure you'll find all the information you need.

I would also recommend reading The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=334) as well as The Essential Psychedelic Guide by D.M.Turner (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/essential_psychedelic_guide/essential_psychedelic_guide.shtml).

Also, read everything by Terence McKenna if you haven't already.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

I had it about a year ago - after the experience all I wanted to do was find out more about it, and talk about it....

It shows different realities/dimensions - the experience truly is unique and interesting. I just don't see how it helps you in the MATRIX WORLD we all live in at this point....

...I have a friend who is a shaman and has probably done it about 1000 times - but the funny thing is this guy is pretty self absorbed, and selfish - so as far as working on the person to 'better' them - it may, but this friend still has no idea how selfish he generally is...I would have thought DMT 'enlightenment' would have at the very least switched that doozy on for him - as in to wake him up to that fact...still he has not...

[Spartacus]

“DMT is a mystery wrapped within an enigma, a mandalic gateway to the innermost depths of existence and one’s soul, a hyperdimensional rollercoaster ride into the realm of the imagination, the liquid palace where dreams are made and unmade, the 13th dimensional candy store at end of time where the weavers of god’s tapestry sing, dance and play...”

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/index.aspx

[Trail]

How coincidental, i tried it lastnight for the first time. Not what i expected. I saw closed eyed visuals. Geometric patterns that have a biological feel about them. I had it lying around for a year and didn't have the right pipe to smoke it with.

What i didn't expect about it is that there wasn't a mind trip associated with it. I felt very clear and myself. Wich made me wonder how i could be seeing the things i did while i was feeling pretty normal. (unlike when on shrooms)

It was like taking a purely observational peek behind the scenes of the matrix.

Visuals lasted about 5 minutes, ebbed away during about 15 minutes, at that point i could easily function again, then it took another 45 minutes to clear away from my system totaly.

DMT did not help me contact my guides/angels/spirits. But it is said that the visuals i saw where the veil between dimensions and when one takes more DMT, one bursts through the visuals i saw and then the experience is indescribable and cannot be translated into words or even correctly remembered when one comes back to the normal world. Maybe next time:)

~Trail.

[danceblackcatdance]

read The Spirit Molecule which is ace and i've smoked DMT a few times.. same stuff people reporting here; geometric visuals etc... starts with the buzzing in the ears, got a vaguely insectoid / alien vibe a couple of times.. quite scary but didn't actually 'cross over'.

I also did an Ayahuasca ceremony in South America in 2010... its a lot more full on concoction when DMT is ingested like that, last about 5 hours with lots of puking and occasional diarrhoea :) Most people tend to cross over when taking Ayahuasca because its very potent and takes much longer to be broken down in the blood stream... the buzzing much stronger that time and a huge factor when coming up, I perceptibly felt my ego and my 'consciousness' separate from my body making 3 separate entities, all of which had awareness of each other... it was fairly frightening as the body vibrates quite heavily and it more often than not feels like you are physically dying, they call it the 'death vine' for good reason.

Was shown the interconnectedness of all things in the multiverse visually, generally saw mad **** and then was kinda glad when it was over :wacko::flypig::juggle::target:

ps. the Ayahuasca brew is made from a combination of plants, when I asked our shaman how they first knew that those plants made DMT she said the Shamans could speak to the plants and were told how to do it :cool:

pps. I also took San Pedro which is mescaline, its more like tripping on LSD, there are realisations to be had but you won't seemingly cross over to other dimensions with it in the same way... save to say I've had one of my most 'spiritual realisations' with medical grade nitros oxide... who's to say what you'll get out of any of it.. I probably sound like a nutter now so will stop :)

[Trail]

Actually that is exactly why i was let down by my experience.. DMT being the spirit molecule.. i was expecting something more spiritual.. some profound spiritual insights.. or maybe seeing visual entities like the DMT elves, or the big loving alien mantis that is often reported seen/interacted with while on DMT.. but none of that stuff.. :(

I had spiritual intentions when i took the DMT but the experience i had was void of anything spiritual.. it just took me on a short visual ride.. :(

Maybe its because the dmt i took was a chemical substance and might have been void of the 'plant teacher spirit'. Depending where the dmt came from..

Or if the plant teacher spirit was indeed in the dmt, she might have taken it easy on me as the experience is very strange and it takes some mental stability to cope with even for experienced cosmonauts.. i was worried about my breathing and checking myself althroughout the experience.. i felt my body tingle very intensely.. i felt a tight band of chocking energy around my throath wich might have been from the smoke i inhaled but all in all it was distracting me... if i was a benevolent and powerful dmt spirit i would take it easy on a person during their first time.. :)

Maybe i couldn't ask for a better experience for a first timer.. in that case: Thank you DMT plant spirit teacher for your kindness :)

~Trail.

[danceblackcatdance]

Strassman said that a year later even the most intense 'spiritual' realisations were gone in the subjects and life returned to baseline... i think this is because its obviously a temporary experience and one hadn't actually taken the actual spiritual journey just had the veil pulled back for a glimpse of the other side..

Tail, keep smoking it till you 'cross over' this could take a few goes in the same session, get someone with you to take the pipe away so you don't burn your house down :)

she might have been taking it easy with you, no bad thing... worth being extra careful, could be real scary, you won't die though you won't know that at the time!

[Timreh]

Hi Youniverse, you may also find the website "erowid (http://www.erowid.org/)" useful it is like the online bible of psychodelic drugs.

[Timreh]

No suprise DMT just like Ayahuasca, Mescaline and others are highly illegal and classed as "Schedule 1 drugs" in most countries??

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Ayahuasca is legal here in Brazil, because it´s attached to a religious cult, called Santo Daime.

Santo Daime is mostly a mix of christianity and shamanism.

Much before the creation of Santo Daime, it was used in many sacred indigenous rituals.

Anyway, I´ve experienced it in Santo Daime a few times and I must say it´s very very potent. It´s so powerful that some people really lose control over their actions very often.

The only bad thing is that Santo Daime is mostly a brainwashing cult that transforms people into fanatic idiots after some time.

I´ve never smoked it, but if you are planning to ingest Ayahuasca, I highly advise you to have a friend nearby to look after you. The thing is potent.

Cheers,

Raf.

[mountain_jim]

You try it every night when you're sleeping. And right before and after.

There are a few threads related to this topic floating around here, I'm sure you'll find all the information you need.

I would also recommend reading The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=334) as well as The Essential Psychedelic Guide by D.M.Turner (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/essential_psychedelic_guide/essential_psychedelic_guide.shtml).

Also, read everything by Terence McKenna if you haven't already.

I treasure the meeting I had with Terence, brief though it was. (Magic Maui Weekend - Language About The Unspeakable - 2/27/93 )

In support of the link between naturally produced by the body DMT for sleep regulation, etc. , I have found I can have bilocation experiences while hovering in that space between sleep and awakeness where my pineal light grows to fill much more of the internal visual field and what I see there is my body lying from well above, or my house roof from 300 feet or so, or more than a few times me sitting parked in my company car with my head leaned against the window while waiting for work-crews to arrive.

These visions were all accurate to what was happening in that time/space - I was definitely seeing myself from locations outside my body. I had no awareness of another, or light body at these times.

Usually shortly after this I do pass into sleep though, rather than being able to hold that position or do anything with it. :)

[Vitalux]

Most amazing a spiritual enlightenment I ever experienced.

The only crime against humanity is that the ptb made this stuff illegal.

If more people were aware of dmt and awakened with it, the whole world would be many steps closer to a paradise of beauty.
It's easy to get dmt if you know the right folks, otherwise, most of the world is oblivious to it, like dirty chem trails in the sky.

Message me if interested

[Zamendar]

I tried a Ayahuasca Healing Ceremony very recently. I haven't ever tried anything else with Pscyodelic properties like Mushrooms, Peyote, Wachuma, etc.

I had heard everyone from Sting, David Icke, Graham Hancock, and Joe Rogan speak very highly of Aya and wanted to find out for myself.

I had to go on a very restrictive Dieta prior to the ceremony that I think helped the whole experience. The facilitator said that smoking DMY (from the frog I assume) is like "Maturbating" vs. making love to a woman (Ayahausca ceremony). He definitly didn't reccomend merely smoking it and I can see why because of the whole importance of the diet, ceremony (beautiful music, singing, etc that really enhances the experience as a whole when under the influence).

You can see things pop out of the walls like everything becomes three dimensional but the real visions come when you close your eyes. It was like viewing 3d images on a screen in your head. I can't remember much other than I got possible future events, colors, shapes, and simbols, and a voice in my heading stating different things. The only thing I remember very clearly was "The images and visions are nice but the most important things are the lessons learned."

Overall a very enlightening experience but I wouldn't reccomend to just anyone. It's a VERY difficult path (vomit is awful...it was a wonderful experience and horrible expereince at once). It felt like food poisoing and yet listening the the music, going within, seeing things and listening the the calming voice was awesome!

Would I do it again? I believe I took what I needed from the experience. :cool:

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I took Mr. Mckenna's advice and consumed 5grams of dried psylocybin mushrooms. This is a nearly absurd dosage but i think he was right. I truly had mystic visions and cosmic vibrations, as an old beatnik once said. Albert Hoffman said Psychodelics are the future of human spirituality, forgive my misspelling

[Youniverse]

Well, that's some great feedback folks! Exactly what I'm looking for. I'm almost done reading DMT - The Spirit Molecule. Here's some background on my drug use experience: I have none, ha ha. Though I used to drink alcohol by the truckload as a youngster. DMT interests me for many reasons, but mainly for it's potential utility in making progress on ones spiritual journey. Rick Strassman only used test subjects with previous experience with hallucinogens. He did so for several reasons which I won't get into here. I am curious what a "good dose" of the drug would do for someone with no recreational drug experience whatsoever. However, I'm not gonna run out and try it tomorrow just like that, lol. Besides, my wife would kill me! I will post more next time, as speaking of my wife, I'm getting kicked off the computer. A couple impressions I'll leave you with from the book. Yes, many of Strassman's test subjects experienced visions, shapes, and colours as some of you have expressed here. He leaves the test subjects that had "transpersonal" experiences on DMT for the last chapters of the book. These included experiences of "aliens," insectoid creatures, gumby-like creatures, elves, etc. that performed a variety of functions including comforters, teachers, guides, and even tormenters. People even experience things like being in a laboratory...

[Youniverse]

Alright, so as I was saying, some people under the influence of DMT say they were quickly taken by some alien beings to an examination room of sorts, and "worked on." Some of those that were worked on said they were improved or "evolved" rapidly from the procedure. They often seem to experience fear of these "beings" at the start, then quickly are put at ease by some overwhelming reassuring feeling. It seems there is quite a range of experiences with DMT. Ranging from utter terror to blissful ecstasy. The vomiting that is mentioned by some here seems to be the exception with most of Strassman"s test subjects. It was a very "controlled" hospital setting, with all the safety measures and precautions in place. Strassman stresses the importance of setting for these experiments as it affects the moods, feeling, energy, expectations, etc. of all those involved. The way strassman went about these experiments, make it an almost inviting experience to a drug virgin like myself (though one could say any adult in this day and age uses all kinds of unofficial drugs in one form or another). Perhaps just a "taste" of dmt, or a very low dose would be enough to tell me if I should try a higher dose or to back off. At any rate, I'm not sure about the addictive dangers, if any, of DMT use, but Strassman did conclude that one does not develop a tolerance to it. He set-up a series of experiments in order to determine if any tolerance of DMT can be acquired through repeated use.

Of course, there are no guarantees, when it comes to what kind of experience, whether positive or negative, comes from the use of DMT. Strassman points to a number of different factors that could determine what one gets out of it. A few of you that have posted here used DMT by smoking it. And as one of you pointed out, and Strassman would likely agree, it is like the difference between masturbation and intercourse. That being smoking it and IV injection. Some of you also talked about possibly breaking the threshold of light next time around. Indeed, according to Strassman, the test subjects that moved through this threshold did have a more majestic and overwhelming experience on the other side.

The whole experience sounds exhilirating and really beyond words, mixed with adventure and danger in my opinion. Now, even if I never try DMT, I will not judge those who have or will use it. In the end, if the effect or experience or whatever it is that it brings was worth the risk to the individual, then that is the main point of it. As Rantaak said, "you do it every night when you sleep," that is something that I'm working on. I'm focussing now on lucid dreaming and meditation. And perhaps there is a different "quality" of experience when a large dose of DMT is released naturally from the Pineal Gland during deep meditation, for example, or during an intensely tramatic event, like a near death experience. However we learn those lessons and come together as equally marvelous human beings, so much the better in our evolution as "one is all, and all is one."

[Youniverse]

Did any of you have any vsions or precognition of future events while using DMT, that you later saw fulfilled?

[Youniverse]

Ya Strassman explains in "DMT-The Spirit Molecule" why DMT was labelled a schedule 1 drug. It sounded like bogus reasons. Mainly to do with people's fears of the unknown, and connection to more, shall I say, infamous drugs like LSD. No offence to those who like LSD. Mescaline didn't seem as appealing to me because of the uspet stomach and horrible vomiting commonly associated with it. At any rate, Strassman chose DMT for several reasons, some being the rapid onset of the trip, and it's relatively short duration. Thanks for your response!

[danceblackcatdance]

DMT as a substance is non-addictive... its illegal because it shows people the world we inhabit is not 'real' imo. Civilisations have used psychedelics for hundreds of years as a means to evolve and current power structures don't want people to evolve from current paradigm...

yeah smoking vs IV different in terms of result, unless u take Ayahuasca or Ibogaine (not DMT but similar) goes into bloodstream for a prolonged experience.. also used to treat alcoholics and heroin addicts with good success rates.

strassman also had a theory that large spontaneous brain releases were responsible for alien abduction experiences if i remember correctly... maybe interesting that a good friend of mine reported visiting aliens when he did smoked DMT on a number of occasions... he said that the place he went to wasn't just a hallucination because time continued in the other place when he wasn't there and when they welcomed him back, they didn't just pick up where they left off.. this could just be his imagination of course, but when he also gave the DMT to another friend they reported visiting some aliens (don't know if they were the same or not) and they said to this other chap, ah yes we know so and so who sent you! make of that what you will
:)

vX1CvW38cHA
RIP Bill Hicks, you are a legend!

[Cjay]

There is (or was) a thread about LSD. I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

[Rantaak]

You try it every night when you're sleeping. And right before and after.

There are a few threads related to this topic floating around here, I'm sure you'll find all the information you need.

I would also recommend reading The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (http://www.erowid.org/library/review/review.php?p=334) as well as The Essential Psychedelic Guide by D.M.Turner (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/essential_psychedelic_guide/essential_psychedelic_guide.shtml).

Also, read everything by Terence McKenna if you haven't already.

I treasure the meeting I had with Terence, brief though it was. (Magic Maui Weekend - Language About The Unspeakable - 2/27/93 )

In support of the link between naturally produced by the body DMT for sleep regulation, etc. , I have found I can have bilocation experiences while hovering in that space between sleep and awakeness where my pineal light grows to fill much more of the internal visual field and what I see there is my body lying from well above, or my house roof from 300 feet or so, or more than a few times me sitting parked in my company car with my head leaned against the window while waiting for work-crews to arrive.

These visions were all accurate to what was happening in that time/space - I was definitely seeing myself from locations outside my body. I had no awareness of another, or light body at these times.

Usually shortly after this I do pass into sleep though, rather than being able to hold that position or do anything with it. :)

Yup, this happens to me all the time now. Especially right before and after sleep. Sometimes I move around in space and time in this density, other times I visit different densities or create conduits of information which more effectively allow me to glean what is necessary from the interaction. It's a purely subconscious thing though, or at least I've found no way to willfully control this pattern.

[SEAM]

There is (or was) a thread about LSD. I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

Paul shut it down out of fear!!:rolleyes:

[mountain_jim]

There is (or was) a thread about LSD. I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

Paul shut it down out of fear!!:rolleyes:

Well here's one that was moved by Paul to an obscure area but not by shut down. Perhaps if you keep it to experiences and perspective and not 'how do I' or 'where can I get some' type of posts, which puts the forum at risk, you can go there.

Edit : There are also other forums on the internet that specialize in these areas, I don't fault the admins of this one for discouraging promotion of illegal activities here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43943-How-many-of-you-have-Tripped

[Radi]

Zamendar ,
the dmt extracted from some toads is 5meoDMT wich I think also have great spiritual potential, and the other which Rick Strassman writes is nnDMT.
about 5meoDMT :
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt.shtml
,,5-MeO-DMT is a naturally occurring psychedelic present in numerous plants and in the venom of the Bufo alvarius toad. It is found in some traditional S. American shamanic snuffs and sometimes in ayahuasca brews. It is somewhat comparable in effects to DMT..''
some interesting interviews about 5meoDMT :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kC8VJTO8cE&feature=BFa&list=PLE5027DC4999730B4 (1of5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EWILfLPyRg (part 1 of 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upRaeO7a6GM&feature=relmfu (part 1 of 11)

I think both nnDMT and 5meoDMT are great substances which can teach us a lot of things!

[cacophony]

In regards to Danceblackcatdance's post:
"Strassman said that a year later even the most intense 'spiritual' realisations were gone in the subjects and life returned to baseline... i think this is because its obviously a temporary experience and one hadn't actually taken the actual spiritual journey just had the veil pulled back for a glimpse of the other side.."

I found this interesting, as Baba Ram Dass says just about the same things in relation to his own psychedelic experience...no matter what, you are always returned to baseline.

Personally, I have tried DMT twice. A friend helped me through everything the second time, and I'll never forget I found myself with a being who I recall named himself (was a boy) Ixa, or Ickza. He told me he has known me forever. I remember him to be a million little moving patterns, that all coalesced to form his beautiful being. Whenever he raised his hand it got lighter and I could see more around us. When he lowered it, it was like we were both in a very small sphere and the light dimmed around us. I remember there was extreme enjoyment from this entity at my reactions. I have since found that experiences like this are common, mine even feels a bit tame to some of the other reports I have heard!

Thanks as well to Radi, for posting all of those videos!

[Strat]

Check this out, "Interviews with people who just smoked DMT" by Vice Magazine:
http://www.vice.com/read/interviews-with-people-who-just-smoked-dmt

[SEAM]

There is (or was) a thread about LSD. I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

Paul shut it down out of fear!!:rolleyes:

Well here's one that was moved by Paul to an obscure area but not by shut down. Perhaps if you keep it to experiences and perspective and not 'how do I' or 'where can I get some' type of posts, which puts the forum at risk, you can go there.

Edit : There are also other forums on the internet that specialize in these areas, I don't fault the admins of this one for discouraging promotion of illegal activities here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43943-How-many-of-you-have-Tripped

Thanks MJ.. I was told it was canceled...Looking forward to catching up....

I do, however take exception with your notion that I was somehow offering illegal drugs for sale. That was never my attempt. (you must have skipped a page or two) .. I haven't engaged, as it were, for over 35 years..

Edit, because P. got pee, iey, es, es, ee, dee, at my last response...

As for "Risks" .. ha.. We engage in conversations about Aliens, Assassinations, NWO, and Revolution, and you're worried about experiences that took place almost 40 years ago? Aayyee.

[mountain_jim]

There is (or was) a thread about LSD. I tried searching for it but couldn't find it.

Paul shut it down out of fear!!:rolleyes:

Well here's one that was moved by Paul to an obscure area but not by shut down. Perhaps if you keep it to experiences and perspective and not 'how do I' or 'where can I get some' type of posts, which puts the forum at risk, you can go there.

Edit : There are also other forums on the internet that specialize in these areas, I don't fault the admins of this one for discouraging promotion of illegal activities here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43943-How-many-of-you-have-Tripped

Thanks MJ.. I was told it was canceled...Looking forward to catching up....

I do, however take exception with your notion that I was somehow offering illegal drugs for sale. That was never my attempt. (you must have skipped a page or two) .. I haven't engaged, as it were, for over 35 years..



I am sorry if it appeared my (somewhat rushed) post seemed to attribute that sentiment to you.
Upon re-reading it now I can see why it would be taken that way. My apologies.

It was meant to point you to the thread, but to support the mods if/when they decide a thread is not appropriate to Avalon if posters (meant the generic folks and not the specific 'you') encourage illegal drug-related activities, however worthwhile they may in fact be in reality.

[Youniverse]

I want to also point out that regardless of what path we choose to enlightenment (this discussion having to do with psychedelics), we still have the ability to choose. Now, those people that had very spiritual experiences, transpersonal, personal lessons learned, etc., regardless of how much time passes after that experience, still have to choose to use what they experienced in a constructive way. Perhaps what they brought back was too incoherent to apply to their lives? Perhaps they weren't really ready for those lessons yet? I don't know. However, this is not what I heard from some of Strassman's participants. It sounded like they did bring back, and understood some powerful lessons and discoveries. My point being, the honous was still on them to decide how to apply that to their lives. Unconditional love still provides them with the freedom to take what they learnt and make their life better. It may be the case that not everyone is ready to experience what they experience on dmt or other drugs and that's okay. I heard a quote from someone in Strassman's book(can't remember the name) that said "dmt may not give you what you expect, but it will give you what you need." If dmt is indeed "The Spirit Molecule," then it has to do with God, and if it has to do with God, then there must be an all-knowing presence involved. And if there's an all-knowing presence involved, there are no secrets anymore. And if there are no secrets, dmt, or spirit, or God knows what you can handle, whether it's the right time, what you're allowed to experience, etc. If I took dmt and the next thing I saw was some huge monster kicking my butt out of there(hypothetically speaking), it sounds like I could take that a few different ways. I might decide to back off and try to forget the experience altogether, OR I could choose to do what some did and genuinely face that fear and then move beyond it. Other's simply may not have had the correct dosage for them to get them where they want to go. Or as someone else said, the right mix of herbs or whatever(I'd like to hear more about that "teacher spirit plant"). As many ancient cultures have being using different kinds of psychedelic drugs for thousands of years, they just might know what they're doing with such a potent substance as dmt. Perhaps this is the best way to use such a drug, through the guided wisdom of a shaman or other spiritual teacher? I heard once that Shaman's will prepare themselves for a week or two before using a psychedelic, and the care and attention they take seems to prevent "bad trips" from happening.

[Youniverse]

Thanks for your comment and link danceblackcatdance. You are probably right in what you said about the powers that be not wanting people to "evolve from current paradigm." I'd like to discuss that more with you sometime. These alien abduction experiences on dmt or otherwise fascinate me. The consistency which they hold, and the detail that is present is remarkable. I think the old argument that it's "all in your head" is being challenged more and more these days. Perhaps, in a sense it starts out "all in your head" as you turn within or to innerspace, which then acts a s a portal to anywhere in the universe, or "right here" just in a different dimension. It's sounded more and more to me like mulitple dimensions exist and we need only "turn the channel" to see what's on the other channel. Strassman talks about that at the end of his book as well. I would strongly urge anyone, if they feel compelled to try any psychedelic(I am by no means telling anyone to do that)to consult with or seek out the guidance of an expert such as a Shaman. These people probably know best. But back to the alien element, what is also intriguing to me is, as Strassman says, one could remove the word "dmt" from many of the dmt users stories, and find that they provide an almost perfect parallel to countless stories of alien abduction. A skeptic could account for this by saying it is something embedded in the psyche of these people, or a Freudian analogy of yearning for a comforting father figure or someone to ease the fear of death. This just doesn't seem to add up for me however. At any rate, this all comes down to what we choose to believe, and that determines the shape of our reality.

[Youniverse]

That Bill Hicks video, LOVED IT! Loved it, loved it, loved itttttttttttt!!!!! And I am not and never have been a drug user folks! How 'bout that!? As Morpheus says in "The Matrix," "I'm trying to free your mind." Yes the powers that be will not allow a "positive drug story" to make the news because that would interfere with their masterpan to continue world dominance and their false illusion of power.

[Youniverse]

By the way, if it's not clear yet. It was never my intention to encourage drug use, only to have a frank and objective discussion of this fascinating topic. In that I was totally innocent(and probably a bit naive). Keep up the good work my friends on your spiritual journeys! God bless!

[mountain_jim]

As posted in another thread:

In the context of personal and individual autonomy, and as one who was awakened by substances the state declared to be off-limits and illegal, and who found most forms of prohibition absurd and counter productive, I found resonance with these ideas:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519BJZAGZZL._SS500_.jpg



Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country (ISBN 0-931580-58-7) is a book by Peter McWilliams in which he presents the history of legislation against what he feels are victimless crimes, or crimes that are committed consensually, as well as arguments for their legalization.

The book is divided into five sections.
Part I gives a definition of victimless and consensual crime and outlines the difference between personal morality and governmentally-imposed morality.
Part II presents arguments against the criminalization of victimless crimes.
Part III gives a closer look into some of the individual activities which the author classifies as consensual crimes, such as prostitution and marijuana use, but which the majority of criminologists would classify as victimless.
Part IV gives historical examples of the treatment of consensual and victimless crimes, such as Prohibition, and Biblical examples.
Part V advises readers on what to do to change the laws.

Throughout the book are approximately six hundred quotations by noted thinkers on both sides of his positions (primarily supporters).

McWilliams presents a variety of arguments against the criminalization of victimless crimes. Some are philosophical in nature: one argument is that laws against these crimes are based in religion, which violates the separation of church and state. He also claims that they are un-American, as they attempt to homogenize the country to a certain group's idea of morality, and that they create an oppressive society, restricting personal freedoms without justification. Another claim is that they teach irresponsibility, by not letting people deal with the natural consequences of their actions, but rather penalizing them whether or not their actions harmed anyone else.

Other objections are practical: catching the "criminals" involved is an expensive affair. Victimless crimes draw manpower and funds away from crimes that do hurt innocent parties, and enforcement of the laws is not consistent enough to be an effective deterrent. He also argues that actions to help people deal with problems caused by these illegal activities are effectively prevented by their criminilization -- for example, no one could be helped about their drinking problems during Prohibition. Additionally, he details how laws against victimless crimes paved the way for organized crime.

Activities examined in detail in Part III include gambling, recreational drug use, medical marijuana, prostitution, homosexuality, pornography, indecent exposure, and seat belt legislation.