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Ernie Nemeth
16th June 2012, 14:37
Being employed by a company whose primary means of funding comes from building prisons I have been forced to contemplate our penal system.

Here in the Toronto area they are quietly building several "super jails". It is big business, involving thousands of vested interests. No one outside the industry even know they are being built. One is in the heart of the city...

My take on the whole matter is simple: no one should ever be imprisoned. Instead, there should only be two courses of action, two choices - a quick and merciful death or real, true, fair rehabilitation.

Furthermore, financial punishment should never be used for curtailing a citizen's actions since this world is already financially challenging enough. Fines are a means of addressing what amounts to a "grey area" or "an opinion" about certain aspects of lawful behavoir.

If a person "transgresses" the only question should be, "Do we kill him humanely or do we offer a real solution to the problem.

Never should a person be subjected to rape, torture or incarceration. This solution is only a method of fear-mongering and the promulgation of further atrocities. It is a means for feeding the sick propensities of those who should already have been "culled" from society, not segregated and allowed to fester and further swell the ranks of the "perverted".

That's my stance, purely "black and white" and offering a choice of either "fix what's broke" or "live and let live" - not "whitewash" the problem with fines, sanctions and jail time...

I'm interested to see what others may think.
Any opinions?

Carmody
16th June 2012, 15:19
thanks Ernie.

This is a stealth attempt by the Harper government and that which is behind him. namely, the CFR, the oil groups, the Rabid side of the republicans and overall... the fascists lurking in the background.

They are trying to introduce mandatory sentences for minor issues, with regard to Canadian Federal laws. The breaking of a functional social fabric, created by the illusion within short sighted people having been used to 'vote' such people as Harper and his cohorts, into the federal offices.

It should be known that Harper is almost literally incapable of chewing bubble gum and walking -at the same time. so literal and linear minded, that he can't speak one word of a speech, without having his eyes on the script, at the exact same time. it is easy to see, then, that this man is inherently mentally flawed and very very dangerous. It is obvious that his psychological reach is nearly NIL.

To presage or pre-set the roll (set the stage) into overt fascism... they destroy the economy through bank and monetary manipulations (when Canada has it's OWN national bank that USED TO issue it's own script and Canada was debt free). This is done through manipulations of Canada's finances at the federal level that people don't see. They don't see it therefore they don't understand that the manipulations are taking place.

(largely...this is happening the world over, regarding the economic and western world)

Then the militarization and police paranoia is introduced into the mayhem of escalating personal and overall socioeconomic "fabricated crisis".

They are removing federal funding and the ability for the prison systems to function without massive interventions due to 'fake created' crisis with regard to federal ability to finance the prison systems.

They then will propose to privatize all prisons, along with introducing the mandatory drug laws and mandatory fines, mandatory imprisonments, etc.

The prisons will be privatized, but it will prove to be TWICE as expensive to the public coffers, with massive overcrowding and incredibly high prison populations.

Then, the labor of the inmates in the prisons.... will be sold of to military and connected corporations, by the privatized prison system. This will be sold off for pennies of cost to the corporations, per hour of labour.

The prison systems as private corporations will receive huge funding from the government, or people, the laws will be fascist and paranoid in order to fill the prisons, and religion and patriotism will be used against those who protest this insanity - Along with incarceration.

There will be no oversight as they will be privatized corporations.

The VERY DEFINITION OF FASCISM: the collusion, of corporations and governments -against the will of the public. Hidden or otherwise ---it is what it is.

(by this correct and true definition of fascism, the USA has had a fascist government for at least 100 years)

Thus the militarization will occur and at no cost to the corporations riding on that free labour and the prison owners will be making profit from both ends.

All this, while the people are in jail, paying for the mess. while the people in the streets will be forced into a paranoid fascist world of war and religion.

This is the recipe that was used in the USA since about 1970, and has been used in this world in various forms, for the past few thousand years. (started as a combined effort with the Rockefeller drug laws and the wholesale privatization of the prison systems, in NY state, around 1970 or so)

This was their response to people seeking freedom in the 1960's.............and they are going to try it again.

See it for what it is.

Harper has brought the same crap, this diseased fascism cloaked in patriotic flags, paranoia, and religion...... to Canada.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You see, the federal reserve banks created the Union banking corporation (run by Prescott Bush) which financed the Nazis. The nazi's created these big prison complexes and labour sources.

By the time the war was in full swing, the systems of incarceration had 85% of the soft goods of the military manufactured, for free..in prison based labour camps.

In 1942, they were busted (the union banking corporation) and were told to stop financing the nazis.There is evidence to show that they did not stop. this is all on US congressional record.

The Dulles brothers, who were instrumental in the creation of the CIA and were skull & bones members, they brought back about 5000-7000 nazi scientists and experts, so the private federal banks could re-coup their investment in nazi Germany, while the fascist nazis hid the best stuff for themselves, in different places, around the world. Half was also sold off to the Russians (Stalin).

This became the USA's big military/corporate black ops, where the science advanced at a rate of 50 years for every 'public year' that the rest of us were and are aware of. This is the source of Eisenhower's parting warning, to 'beware the military industrial complex'.

Things worked swimmingly beautiful, people were patriotic and the world was good, as the USA basically was at the top of the financial food chain (1950's), with the ugly stuff that has been floating around for the past many thousands of years..was running things, while hiding in the backdrop.

Then, Korea, Japan as a labour camp, and so on. Banana republics were still going on strong as forced labour camps in central America, all the US news was washed, the whole ball of wax.

America was happy, fat, and ignorant.

Then, Vietnam.

The public becomes aware and the government starts looking into -it being backed by private interests and that thousands of year old thing---that system starts to move into... turning on the USA.... as the USA is no longer a willing and ignorant host... to having a parasite that rides on it.

People were waking up.

Thus the whole drug law thing, the privatization, etc..and America has the same crew in charge, in the backdrop..and the incarcerated people are living in a semi-hidden fascist system..with the same as the Fascists in Germany.

We get to the mid-late 1970's.. and we have Forced labor in prisons, manufacturing 85% of the US military's soft goods--same as the nazi's. The same people --created the same system. All those 'prisoners'...doing it for free, for corporations, who were subjugating the world via owning the federal offices (due to no standing army in the USA borders as federal law, so they went the federal route of control). (some 790 military bases in the rest of the world, outside of the USA)

Now they are trying to tear down the USA on the INSIDE so it will have NO LIVING MEMORY of what was done to it, by this multi-thousand year old hidden system.

That the USA was used as weapon to tear apart the rest of the world and now that it is too destroyed to stand on it's own, then kill the unwilling and unwitting killer/assassin (the USA)...from the INSIDE. (The USA was a fresh, open, NEW country with VAST untouched resources, that's why it could be -and was- done)

That is what is going on.

Now, Harper is brought into federal office by the same groups and hidden hands, and is starting up the same nightmare, in Canada.

It is a short synopsis, but that is the essence of it.

So, when you look at Harper, and what is behind him..... all of the above... THAT..is what you are staring at.

Canada has vast untapped resources, you know.

Now that the USA is 'tapped' and dry, in some ways, it will now be torn and shattered.. to kill any possibility of memory in the people... and the Canadian lands/resources will be confiscated, and the Canadian public will be indoctrinated/'mindwiped' via socioeconomic means into a paranoid fascist state and then used as a resource system for a fascist reboot of the North American continent.

Just in case any of you folks wanted to know, that is what is going on. That is the attempt, that is the hidden directive.

Ernie Nemeth
16th June 2012, 21:04
Well said Carmody. It is, like usual, hard to pick out a single point to comment on in your comprehensive replies and posts.

The Americans have been at war since WWII without surcease so there can be no argument about their intentions, that's for sure. But Canada has stood up to them for the longest while and even gone against them - like the Iraqi invasion, for instance. But this Harper government is like no other in Canada's history and it has brought out the most hard-lined neocons that up until this time have been moderated by more lenient right-of-center true Conservatives. Like Preston Manning, these neocons Nazis are thinly disguised bullies that want things their way and everyone else be damned! Like their 3 pot plants and the mandatory 6-month jail term ploy. Live and let live is a thing of the past in Canada, I'm afraid.

The upside is that for the first time in Canada's history, the Left-leaning NDP has an actual grassroots resurgence in public support that may well be the demise of the Liberals and perhaps the Neo-cons as well. If Bob Rae had gone ahead and renigged on his promise to not run for permanent leader of the Liberal party that would have been a slam dunk - now we'll have to wait and see...

Thanks for your reply.

crosby
16th June 2012, 21:11
Carmody, that is one of the most essential posts that I have read in quite a while. Thank you so much. That is it in a nutshell.
warmest regards, corson

Mulder
16th June 2012, 21:31
I totally agree & I don't want to repeat your information.

All I want to add is how much the sheeple LOVE hurting themselves - why do they vote for politicians who want to "get tough on crime?" When every year more and more sheeple are turned into criminals by their Govt, so their family will be sitting in jail for a long time with all these laws.

Why do the sheeple support cutting Driver Licences, or putting people who don't pay child support in jail, when it's impossible to ever pay it sitting in jail.

Now 11 years after 9.11 all these laws aimed at "terrorists" are applied to everyone, e.g. TSA grope downs, making people "prove" they got money legally (hard to do as money is not tracked like it is in a cashless society), etc. I think the sheeple are so blind, they'll only wake up at the gas-chamber - where the Nazi train always ends up.

Robert J. Niewiadomski
16th June 2012, 21:38
Ernie, think there are at least two other ways beside killing or rehabilitating the offender. First is banishment to the lawless place where the outlaw can do as she/he please ( to the "prison planet"?!). Second is abandonment by and relocation of the rest of society to the other planet (or dimension?!) Leaving the offender behind...
Well killing is a form of banishment to the other dimension... Technically speaking of course...

spiritguide
16th June 2012, 22:16
The thread title should read ' Incarceration as the best public/private business '. This subject is real and an anchor to the future of our fate. The department of corrections at state and federal levels are just as corrupt as all others, and we know it. Some are fighting it through the system like the ACLU. Check out their website for more info.

http://www.aclu-il.org/

This link is the IL chapter and has link to the federal site and other state's sites.
As this thread indicates it looks like Canada is following suit. Actually it is an overt form of slavery as the corporations want it.

This discussion has been waiting to happen for a long time and it's needed. A thread on this was posted a few days ago, here is the link...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46239-Is-this-how-we-treat-our-children&p=503960#post503960

:peace:

Ernie Nemeth
17th June 2012, 01:15
Robert, your suggestion sounds very much like what Britain did centuries ago with its crimminals - send them to Australia! That seems to have worked itself out quite nicely...

It is a case in point, and not far off what I am advocating - either kill them or rehabilitate them for real. What I was trying to suggest is that this is not a question of crimminals, it is a question of our intent. Do we truly want to make things better or do we want to sweep the entire issue under the rug? If the options are "black and white" as I recommend then we are given a choice that reflects our true intentions. If we kill them, what we are really saying is that our system is screwed up and we don't care to fix it. If we try to rehabilitate the criminal we would actually have to address the issues that made them criminals in the first place. And that is the point.

Our system is, and has always been, unfair and inequitable. But, by having a penal system in place we can ignore the problems and go on with "business as usual". At least with a choice of death or rehab we would confront our own demons and deal with issues that for far too long have been ignored.

In america, fully 80% of inmates are from the lower third of the economic spectrum, 70% are non-whites, and 65% (or there-abouts) are drug-related. Only some 30% are there for violent crimes and very few for murder or sex-offenses. Canada is not much better. Here, crime has been dropping for well over a decade - yet the sudden need for "super jails" as espoused by the neo-cons? Makes anyone with a mind that still functions to stop and wonder why.

Most of the time, offenders are those that have come from troubled homes, with parents either physically or psychologically absent. This means that what they lacked was love (primarily), respect, fairness, compassion, mentorship and a firm and understanding role-model. Exactly what is missing in society in general...

Also, where would you suggest we place these unwanted and disruptive elements of society? The question is rhetorical, since there is no place left on earth. Oh, and by the way, if there was such a place a lot of people besides the offenders would opt to join them - I would. At least there you'd know where you stand and you could live a short but authentic life, not the pablum-fed, robot-like, automaton congruity forced upon us in this modern world.

This world is heading towards the gas-chamber of Nazi fame, just like Mulder says, and I'm not paying for the ride. Give me real solutions (freedom) or give me death! (forget who said that, not good with quotes) is an apt way of putting it.

I'm not into vengeance as a deterrent...

Carmody
17th June 2012, 01:25
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Liberty

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

Hervé
17th June 2012, 01:53
Corroboration of sorts to Carmody's post # 2 above through the "Orion Model" as explained by Alex Collier:


Orion model

One of Alex Collier's interviews by Robert Stanley who yanked those interviews off his website...


Alex Collier interview, 2011-10-27
http://kiwi6.com/file/f8s5019nne (http://kiwi6.com/file/f8s5019nne)


Welcome to a new episode of Unicus Radio, I am your host Robert Stanley we have a special guest, our friend Alex Collier.

“ …our ancient ancestors, the Sumerians, the Egyptians they all had full knowledge of our cousins. They often saw them in the air, they had some forms of interaction between them and humanity on a relatively frequent basis. The Mayans, the Aztecs also have the same stories of being with the gods and you know, agriculture, horticulture, manufacturing were all taught to our ancestors. It’s after, really, the sinking of Atlantis and then the last pole shift that occurred which was caused by the Anunaki where everything kind of went black, and then what we have basically, we have all these legends on this as we are taught but are in fact based on actual history. Now, as far as the freeing of the galaxy…

“I am gona tell you what I have been told.

“’For the most part, most of the galaxy is pretty civilized, ok. It’ really matured, it’s coming to its own. But there are some areas, mostly on the outskirts, where it’s still pretty [much] considered “jungle.” But that’s changing rapidly as well. Now, if you remember when I first started speaking, the Andromedans, Moreney and Faceyas, had said that tyranny showed up in our galaxy in the future and they had come back in time to find out what was going on and they had narrowed it down – not just the As but several groups or teams that were part of the Adromedan council -- had come back and had focused it to this particular area of our solar system.

“Now, we have some really bad elements here. They are not just here but in this kind of sector, this part of our galaxy. Some are in our solar system, obviously, and some are directly underneath us. But some are also inhabiting some of the other planets and moons in our solar system.

05:00
“Basically this was like a free zone. This was an area where nobody paid attention to. And it's because of that that this rogue element was drawn here because they felt like they could do whatever the hell they wanted to do. In essence you could say this was like a lure to them. This area that nobody gives a sh*t about, that’s where we go, that’s where we hide. Like pirates would do.

“So, they come here en masse, in numbers, not only physically but dimensionally. The dimensional part, doors were opened for them so they could actually come in and now basically what you have now is that you have this cesspool of just renegades who for the most part have all their own agendas. They may have different agendas, but none of those agendas are really about the betterment and welfare of the natives. It’s all about what can we get for ourselves. And humanity has mirrored this as well, you know, in our history.

“So, now, what we have is that the doors are closing. Behind this group, I know there are some basically saying it’s over, and that is absolutely so far from the truth. And I’ll give you an analogy of why that's so far from the truth. Now, it is clear that they are backing up and they are beginning to know that they are cornered. But it isn’t over because we are between them and the good guys. For the most part humanity is completely unaware of what’s really going on around themselves. Humanity is in a very precarious position.

“But I’ll just give you this analogy. You even hear it with some of these speakers saying, you know, a brand new financial system is coming in, and it’s gona be miraculous, it’s gona be absolutely wonderful; it’s gona replace the old system. Well, the old system was based on a fiat currency from, they only last about 80 years. So it’s coming to an end. It has reached its pinnacle of putting everybody in debt. So we have now a new financial system coming in. This is an Earth financial system. However it is being managed by other personages who are not solely human.

“At this point, there were only four countries that were not part of the Rothschild’s banking system. They were North Korea, Cuba, Libya and Iran. Well we know Libya is no longer a part of that. They're no longer free, they are now part of the Rothschild’s banking system. The next would be Iran and we are already hearing the ramblings about going to war with Iran and making them the bad guy. As far as North Korea and Cuba, I don’t think anybody gives a sh*t about those two countries.

“So, this should show everyone that what they’re hearing that it’s all over, it’s time to relax, you know, pick up your heels, open a six-pack, you know, it’s way premature, way premature.


25:30
“Most people in government don’t really understand the real element of control here and that it’s extraterrestrial. They are aware of the human element. Those that have awareness of it, made a choice to succumb to this evil. I am sure that they were probably threatened and that their families were threatened, etc. Because we have inherited this problem. Those alive today inherited this problem. But this is the Orion Model.

“This is what the Orions, both the human aspect of what’s the Anunaki are a part of and the Reptilian lineages used to do, hundreds and hundreds of millions of years ago when the colonization of galaxies was in its beginning and its infancy. I don’t even know how many years ago that was.

“But this is the Orion Model: they would come in with different gods, they would separate the humanity of that planet. They would change their language. They would teach them a faith or a religion to separate them even more. Then they would use them to fight one another to build animosity and distrust.

“That alone changes the entire harmonic of not only the race but the planet. They think holographically, they know this stuff. They know what it does, ok, because they have all this knowledge.

“So, when you have planetary race and a planet vibrating at a low frequency, it is like a nesting zone for these guys. And when that’s done, what they then do is they corrupt, they create a priesthood to be the intermediaries between humanity and them because the more hidden they are, especially if they are regressive, the more stealth they are, the easier it is for them to manipulate.

“So, they use their human priesthoods, or their priesthoods – I am assuming all the races are human; they are not -- to basically implement the strategy and the plan.

“Once they have absolute control of a planet and the humanity on it and all the resources, just before they expose themselves, come forward and introduce themselves as gods, what they do is they eliminate all the people that helped them. All, the priesthoods, all the intermediaries, all the middle management, they eliminate all of them so there is no one left to tell the story. And they erase history. Then the humanity on that particular planet is floundering around wondering “Who the hell are we?” “what’s true, what isn’t true? “How do you explain this?” “That religion says that.” It creates all this confusion and no one is on the same page and that’s exactly how they managed to control these planets.

““Ordo ab chao”

“You cannot enslave a planet that is well educated and you have a humanity that knows who it is on high spiritual principles. You cannot enslave a race like that.”

ghostrider
17th June 2012, 02:18
I agree with Ernie, no one should be locked up, either quick death, or rehab . An eye for an eye .

Mark
17th June 2012, 04:50
My perspective on this is as an American currently living in Canada, just outside of Montreal. I'm watching these student protests going on right down the highway and wondering how the same events would have been handled in the States. First of all, students in the states have long since been cowed by the government for the most part, probably going all the way back to Kent State and the murder of some students by soldiers in the 70s. They accept the ever-increasing costs with little complaints, willingly going into a life of debt-slavery and probable peonage.

Before I can jump on board with any draconian answers to the prison problem it's going to have to be a bit less race-based. A little known fact about the federal prison system is that it was first put into place in the United States after the Civil War and implemented in the South. It was used in order to round up black men that couldn't find jobs and put them back to work for free in a new form of slavery. It was used in tandem with the Black Codes, which morphed into Jim Crow, which had lesser and greater forms of implementation in all sectors of the United States, be it North, South, East or West. The West was best but still had its issues.

The Federal Prison system in the States was created to house blacks and put them back to work for businesses, corporations, for free. As an aside that I don't think is at all coincidental, the 14th amendment, which was designed to give black folks a form of citizenship (yes, I know all the sovereignty arguments about the united states corporations, citizenship, person-hood and the 14th amendment) was co-opted by business interests just a few short years following emancipation and the corporations were given person-hood. Over the next years and decades, more cases involving the 14th amendment were brought before the courts involving the rights of corporations than the rights of blacks and other minorities denied equal treatment under the law.

Being involved in a system, being forced from birth into peonage and hopelessness creates an inter generational memory regarding possibility and potentiality that is difficult to transcend. Humans are able to do so because we are infinite beings, souls wearing bodies for a time, but patterns related to the status of the biology remain ingrained as mental patterns are ingrained in synapses and neural nets during the course of a lifetime. Drug crimes - often the only jobs left in the cities since 'white flight' and the emptying of the cities of capital and opportunities in the 1950s, 60s and 70s - crimes of passion and petty crimes are generally symptoms of environmental desperation, where there are few alternatives and opportunities. Both mentalities and perspectives, that of victimization and that of entitlement, are two sides of the same coin, they feed off of each other and often lead to draconian responses on both sides.

More benefits for those who don't have anything. Less benefits for those who don't do anything. Given the subjectivity of perspective and the all-encompassing nature of our personal viewpoints on the nature of reality, unless purposefully cultivated, it is very difficult to truly see another's position unless one has somehow been in that position themselves and can relate.

In other words, I'm all for rehabilitation. Thanks for this thoughtful topic.

mosquito
17th June 2012, 04:53
I agree Ernie, though I also think a form of public humiliation could be useful.

As I'm sure you know, it's a hugely complex issue and we have to take into account the psychological state of society as a whole. My memory of Britain, which you can confirm just by reading the letters pages of newspapers, is that there is a substantial section of modern society which does seek vengeance on "criminals".

With issues like this and others relating to society, I always try to envisage a doomsday scenario, where humanity has succeeded in destroying itself and I'm one of a handful of survivors. What do we do ? How do we live ? How do we build a community and what agreements do we have ? How do we deal with transgressors ?

Prison is neither practical nor humane, the expansion of the prison system, brilliantly summarised by Carmody, is a clear symptom of a psycopathic society.

Rakhyt - Well said.

Carmen
17th June 2012, 05:06
Wow! I'm glad I don't live in the 'States', "Just kill em"' an "an eye for an eye"!! What about people who are "setup", who are wrongfully prisoned" Will it be "whoops," we made a mistake!!

There has to be a better way. Lawlessness, murder, rape etc is the terrible effect of an equally dreadful cause!! Hopelessness is another affect of a dreadful cause. We talk about this dreadful cause all the time on this forum. Does it have to be spelled out.

spiritguide
17th June 2012, 13:32
Here is just another dot for the Canadians to see where you are heading with regards to the need for more prisons.... Check out the linked article....

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ottawa+airport+wired+with+microphones+Border+Services/6788759/story.html

Welcome back Rahkyt, long time no see.

:peace:

scanner
17th June 2012, 14:17
We are all incarcerated , a prison without bars is still a prison .

percival tyro
17th June 2012, 15:53
Incarceration followed by the cold blooded killing of any life form is not the way forward for any reason. All life forms are born innocent and are starting a new journey into environments that the sheeple. past and present have created. We can support any legal candidate at any election. Why do we continually support the illuminati's poodles. I don't get it (Apologies to real poodles)

kcbc2010
17th June 2012, 17:56
I totally agree & I don't want to repeat your information.

All I want to add is how much the sheeple LOVE hurting themselves - why do they vote for politicians who want to "get tough on crime?" When every year more and more sheeple are turned into criminals by their Govt, so their family will be sitting in jail for a long time with all these laws.

Why do the sheeple support cutting Driver Licences, or putting people who don't pay child support in jail, when it's impossible to ever pay it sitting in jail.

Now 11 years after 9.11 all these laws aimed at "terrorists" are applied to everyone, e.g. TSA grope downs, making people "prove" they got money legally (hard to do as money is not tracked like it is in a cashless society), etc. I think the sheeple are so blind, they'll only wake up at the gas-chamber - where the Nazi train always ends up.


Criminals are the only group of people who the "sheeple" are allowed to hate on. It sounded weird to me when I first came upon the idea, but then it made sense. People have aggressive emotions, but, in a lot of ways we aren't allowed to express them in productive ways. So, the lawmakers and judges came up with a group of people who we could vent our rage on w/o fear of political correctness. (In fact, they even created a lot of the criminal class by making things like drugs illegal/three strike laws, etc) It's a vicious circle.

Jail is supposed to be the humane choice these days. We don't want to execute them - and in the States where it is legal, there is an appeal process. So, it's not like the death penalty gets applied right away. That said, I always thought the founders had the right idea with "give me liberty or give me death" as in their time, jail was seen as the worse punishment of all. Now, we just warehouse people and call ourselves "enlightened".

kcbc2010
17th June 2012, 18:12
Wow! I'm glad I don't live in the 'States', "Just kill em"' an "an eye for an eye"!! What about people who are "setup", who are wrongfully prisoned" Will it be "whoops," we made a mistake!!

There has to be a better way. Lawlessness, murder, rape etc is the terrible effect of an equally dreadful cause!! Hopelessness is another affect of a dreadful cause. We talk about this dreadful cause all the time on this forum. Does it have to be spelled out.

Just a little perspective. Not all states have the death penalty. And those states with the death penalty often can't execute someone right away. Since the appeal process is long, people complain about criminals who are locked up and still in jail who should be dead. I kind of find it ironic that CA didn't have the death penalty when Charles Manson was convicted because I'm sure he would have gotten it. However, every few years he comes up for parole and he's denied (again), so it's hard to say which is a better mode of punishment. We want to say we are humane, but it's hard to know exactly what humane means in terms of what to do with criminals who are in "for life" or on "death row".

I know that probably sounds harsh to someone outside the US, but defendants are allowed appeals and there is a very passionate anti-death penalty movement in the US. There are times when it's "oops" we made a mistake, but it is thought that having the death penalty is worth the risk. The innocence project is one of the better known advocates for prison/criminal justice reform. http://www.innocenceproject.org/

sdv
17th June 2012, 18:36
I admit that I have no research or evidence to back up this claim, but ... I think that there are 'humans' walking this planet that are without a soul or have something missing (and, yes, 'white' science is putting a lot of effort into trying to find an answer) and that no rehabilitation is possible.

BUT

We cannot execute others, take part in any kind of act of vengeance of or punishment without compromising our ideals, and thus, ultimately, becoming victims ourselves.

Vengeance: I live in a country where a certain community is so fed up with thieves disrupting their lives (e.g. stealing wiring for the few cents they can get for the copper or mature full-grown men raping children under the age of 13 - more than 7 reported such rapes a day) with impunity that they have taken matters into their own hands and captured and set alight such miscreants in the street. Justice? (Well, take them to court, if you can, and a lawyer will argue and get a reduced sentence, if guilt can be established) .What I think of is the children - imagine as a child waking up to the smell of the burning flesh of street justice?

Punishment and vengeance: When we choose to punish and seek vengeance we damage all that is good on ourselves and our children. Can we not see how easily humans are corrupted and how fragile and weak we are and how we will always choose the stupid route of perceived short-term personal gain? The tables will always turn and those who seek the high ground as victims will always victimise ithers.

Yes, lock away those who are a severe threat to the life of others in society, but treat them well and review what we regard as a severe threat often?

Perhaps the answer is to consult all that we know to evaluate if a person is a threat to society, and if so, to remove that person from society but to uphold our, hopefully, values in treating those people well.

Carmen
17th June 2012, 18:41
Thanks for replying to me. I interact with people here and also with Americans on a horsey forum and they are some of the kindest, most thoughtful people I have ever met. This to me is humanities 'natural' way of being. This dreadful violence is a learned, conditioned 'dog eat dog' response deliberately brought on by television, poverty, drugs, hopelessness and a total lack of quality, loving parenting! our education systems are mind dumbingly boring. No kids are taught how to think for themselves, just how to regurgitate someone else's second or third hand ideas. Kids have a huge, active, creative energy that just has to express, to move physically. They shouldn't be made to sit still for hours on end with no outlet for that energy. Yet kids don't have freedom of movement anymore, they are so often now confined to houses and maybe backyards. Sport remains one of there outlets thank goodness, but actuall freedom to play and express away from home is not an option in many cities and countries. Man, when I think of the freedom I had to roam as a kid!! I think I was very fortunate. I'd be gone all day and my parents wouldn't have a clue where I was, but I was just fine being with my friends or roaming the city or countryside on my pony! Flying kites we made ourselves, making carts and pushing them round the streets. We had just plain fun and the streets were our playground. We also knew and visited all our neighbours. All adults looked out for all kids! I am thankful that I live in the country where my grand kids can roam free and explore nature. No television either! That is such a tool of violent conditioning and mind control and poor wee kids are plonked in front of that in a mindless trance for hours. Talk about a perfect tool to produce violence and criminality!! Well I've had my rant.

Ernie Nemeth
17th June 2012, 19:13
Great responses! Although I think that the proper perspective should be remembered.

Firstly, this society is so full of contradictions that holding together a coherent "system" in which people can "thrive" "spins off" an equal amount of injustice. This "injustice" as society sees it is addressed by our laws and upheld by our "justice system". It is easier to incarcerate than to address the inequities built into the "system". If examples are still needed then perhaps Rahkyt's reference to the injustices still visited on the African American is easiest to see. So I refer you to his excellent post above.

Secondly, the proposition to "kill" a "crimminal" as the only recourse to breaking the laws of society is meant as a crude and blunt reminder of those very contradictions inherent in the system. If a person resorts to selling drugs to provide for his or her family because they have no other recourse to lucrative employ, is that worthy of incarceration? If a person steals from a store to feed their children, is that worthy of jail time? Instead, now, in this scenario and with only two options, which do they deserve?

In our society at this present time the first is evil incarnate for providing drugs to people who are vulnerable. The second should simply line up at the food bank or soup kitchen and wait for their handout. Both are guilty of not developing a marketable skill with which to provide for their families - and deserve the full weight of "justice" to descend upon them. They are the "losers", the "lazy", the "degenerates"...the "guilty" - the "flawed". They took the "easy" way out and now must bear the "punishment" their errors require.

And if the second option, that of rehabilitation, is chosen just how far down that rabbit hole are we willing to go? For that rabbit hole is what is discussed in the threads on this site, are they not?

Is it difficult to see that such a discussion, the very need of rehabilitation itself, points to the "dirty secrets" we all gloss over in our worldviews? Wars, economic sanctions (both global and local), the financial system, class, race, creed, color, who you know (or "who you blow"), and a host of other equally inappropriate distinctions that serve as the stratification of the masses results in anything but "justice".

That is what this discusion should focus on. Not how one innocent person might be "killed" but that we are all innocent and deserve better than the fear of torture to keep us toeing the line in a system that is anything but "fair".

Very, very, very few people deserve to be "killed" for their crimes, if any. No one deserves to be imprisoned. And the "system" certainly needs to address its inequities. That is justice. That leads to freedom and liberty for all.

sdv
17th June 2012, 19:36
Not how one innocent person might be "killed" but that we are all innocent and deserve better than the fear of torture to keep us toeing the line in a system that is anything but "fair".

I doin't know the answer, but I do sense that this is the 'right' question to ask.

the_vast_mystery
17th June 2012, 20:15
The entire criminal justice system functions on mass hypocrisy. It cannot ever be fair or impartial (as humans cannot be 100% fair or impartial, let alone with the police militarization and insider cultures promoted by their "Internal Affairs" style of handling misconduct.) but to function it requires it be sold as both of these things. (So that the governed will trust the system enough to turn over evidence to it and cooperate with it.) Our social institutions are all built on contradictions just like these. Worse, to maintain the contradictions we allow government to propagandize and lie about the virtues of these systems under the guise of "state secrets" and other odious national security language to keep just how dysfunctional our system is out of the public eye so that people will still continue to trust/use it.

This is why I'm sure police misconduct is handled how it is. Because if everyone regularly heard about Law Enforcement's screwups they'd probably never trust it.

Mulder
17th June 2012, 21:42
I admit that I have no research or evidence to back up this claim, but ... I think that there are 'humans' walking this planet that are without a soul or have something missing (and, yes, 'white' science is putting a lot of effort into trying to find an answer) and that no rehabilitation is possible.


Perhaps the answer is to consult all that we know to evaluate if a person is a threat to society, and if so, to remove that person from society but to uphold our, hopefully, values in treating those people well.

These people without souls are called Psychopaths. They are around 4% of the population & are equally male & female (but female psychopaths are sometimes more underhand e.g. will marry an old man and poison him for his money), according to Thomas Sheridan

Ki's
17th June 2012, 23:12
Robert, your suggestion sounds very much like what Britain did centuries ago with its crimminals - send them to Australia! That seems to have worked itself out quite nicely...

It is a case in point, and not far off what I am advocating - either kill them or rehabilitate them for real. What I was trying to suggest is that this is not a question of crimminals, it is a question of our intent. Do we truly want to make things better or do we want to sweep the entire issue under the rug? If the options are "black and white" as I recommend then we are given a choice that reflects our true intentions. If we kill them, what we are really saying is that our system is screwed up and we don't care to fix it. If we try to rehabilitate the criminal we would actually have to address the issues that made them criminals in the first place. And that is the point.

Our system is, and has always been, unfair and inequitable. But, by having a penal system in place we can ignore the problems and go on with "business as usual". At least with a choice of death or rehab we would confront our own demons and deal with issues that for far too long have been ignored.

In america, fully 80% of inmates are from the lower third of the economic spectrum, 70% are non-whites, and 65% (or there-abouts) are drug-related. Only some 30% are there for violent crimes and very few for murder or sex-offenses. Canada is not much better. Here, crime has been dropping for well over a decade - yet the sudden need for "super jails" as espoused by the neo-cons? Makes anyone with a mind that still functions to stop and wonder why.

Most of the time, offenders are those that have come from troubled homes, with parents either physically or psychologically absent. This means that what they lacked was love (primarily), respect, fairness, compassion, mentorship and a firm and understanding role-model. Exactly what is missing in society in general...

Also, where would you suggest we place these unwanted and disruptive elements of society? The question is rhetorical, since there is no place left on earth. Oh, and by the way, if there was such a place a lot of people besides the offenders would opt to join them - I would. At least there you'd know where you stand and you could live a short but authentic life, not the pablum-fed, robot-like, automaton congruity forced upon us in this modern world.

This world is heading towards the gas-chamber of Nazi fame, just like Mulder says, and I'm not paying for the ride. Give me real solutions (freedom) or give me death! (forget who said that, not good with quotes) is an apt way of putting it.

I'm not into vengeance as a deterrent...

"Give me liberty or give me death" Patrick Henry

Mark
18th June 2012, 03:39
Not only are the ones without souls called psychopaths, they are also called organic portals (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm).

Great points in your follow up, Ernie. Whew, this is a difficult topic.


In our society at this present time the first is evil incarnate for providing drugs to people who are vulnerable. The second should simply line up at the food bank or soup kitchen and wait for their handout. Both are guilty of not developing a marketable skill with which to provide for their families - and deserve the full weight of "justice" to descend upon them. They are the "losers", the "lazy", the "degenerates"...the "guilty" - the "flawed". They took the "easy" way out and now must bear the "punishment" their errors require.

And if the second option, that of rehabilitation, is chosen just how far down that rabbit hole are we willing to go? For that rabbit hole is what is discussed in the threads on this site, are they not?

That formulation right there? LOL That perspective is the entire difference between Left and Right. I'm glad you started out with "In our society at this present time ... "

Of course you are familiar with all of the counter arguments.

Ernie Nemeth
18th June 2012, 09:53
I would like to take this further but I'd be remiss if I did not point out that Songsoftheotherkind has started a thread on heteronomy/autonomy that is exactly what I was pointing towards, in my slow and stumbling manner. here

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46461-So-how-much-transformation-is-actually-wanted-really&p=507727

spiritguide
18th June 2012, 23:58
Just run across this item and it fits this thread's essence......

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=16949&d=1340063443

Makes ya think..

:peace:

Ernie Nemeth
19th June 2012, 00:09
What is this? Gift day?

I am honored by your contribution. Thank you.

So simple, so direct, so profound.

Spiritguide, thanks so much.

Respect - and gratitude,
and Love!

spiritguide
19th June 2012, 13:06
What is this? Gift day?

I am honored by your contribution. Thank you.

So simple, so direct, so profound.

Spiritguide, thanks so much.

Respect - and gratitude,
and Love!

Your welcome brother! The ancestors knew and their wisdom is not necessarily bound in a book. It's there for all to see in the Creation which we are all a part of.

:peace:

sunnyrap
19th June 2012, 19:05
Love this discussion because I agree prisons are utterly inhumane, stupid and ultimately valueless.

BTW, I live in a 'prison town', meaning there are 7 prisons here and so are the largest employer in the county. I know many people who have worked for the prisons for many years. They agree that at least 70% of the prisoner population don't really belong there, they are the victims of wrongful conviction or specious 'laws' or just have bad environments to deal with. And these opinions are made by psychiatric professionals. 20-25% are probably very mentally ill and need humane attention, 5-10% are incorrigible and unreachable and prison is the only place they could live without killing or being killed. But prisons as they are mostly administered shouldn't exist. They are simply forced labor camps in which employees get no vacation, no overtime, poor food, the cheapest most uncomfortable housing and marginal health care (though my friends, medical professionals, state some would get no care at all if they weren't there).

(Begin personal rant): I was fuming today because my son got tapped out for a seat belt violation and given a whopping fine. I've been stopped twice for tiny 'infractions' )(one tail light bulb burned out while I was driving, a $175 fine-); not putting on my turn signal at a right on red intersection) when crime is running rampant throughout the county from rape, pedophilia, violence, drug trafficking to increased breakins and armed robbery. Police would rather write easy tickets than risk themselves in the more serious situations --probably because they are inadequately staffed and equipped. They are ramping up efforts to 'catch' and fine violations in order to keep the county funded. This in an area where the employment ads comprise one 4 inch column in the local paper and wages (except for prison and medical workers) are 90% at minimum wage level and unemployment is high. Near as I can tell, the prisons don't contribute to the tax base and there is no other significant industry here besides the medical industry--so police prey on the populace like vampires for their life-blood. The two junior colleges are set up to crank out law enforcement workers, medical support people and clerical people. Period. Not the world I wish to inhabit....(End of rant)

I've now determined a critical mass of us need to master the legal system and fight this situation legally, as a number of astute types have successfully done. It has gotten completely damaging to all of us.

Maia Gabrial
19th June 2012, 21:14
I have another idea that might sound better than killing or locking people up. I believe Humanity has faced this very same "punishment" during the cavemen days. And sound was used....

What's worse than being locked up and all your freedoms taken away? IMO having your memories completely erased. No knowledge of who you were. No language between anyone. No technologies or living comforts. And your dna being reduced to 2 strands....Then having to figure out how to survive without ANY of that. This would mean starting from ground zero in everything.... The world would be very hostile in that kind of situation, don't you think? No one would be put to death, unless they failed to fight for their own survival.

In time, IF they changed their ways, they'd get a reprieve....

I'm hoping that most of us will get those reprieves....

Ernie Nemeth
27th July 2015, 01:25
I'm ready for my reprieve...

Jackson
28th July 2015, 03:19
Yes....what a great article. Well timed also.

I have a grandson that became caught up in the system (aged 21) Had a good job and was promoted twice, doing well. He was abducted by three men and taken to a condo and where the older man tried to rape him. He was very intoxicated (by them). He made his way into kitchen when to man attacked him again and tried to defend himself with a steak knife that was on the kitchen counter. The attacker was stabbed 6 times by my grandson and when the two other men came down from the bedroom, they maced my grandson and called 911. The police naturally took the side of the victim and tried to make it a hate crime by trying to get my grandson to admit he did because the man was gay. We hired a private detective to look into this man's past and discovered that he had done this type of thing several times and had not been prosecuted for even one event. The man's defense was that he didn't remember anything at all and the other two men didn't witness the event so it was my grandson's word against theirs. The court wouldn't allow any of his past events to be admitted in a trial so we had to accept a plea bargain. My grandson was charged with assault with a deadly weapon and assault 3 and gave him 18 months in prison and he is now a felon and certain rights are denied him. My anger was in the fact that they really didn't want to look any further into the crime and didn't charge the other two with kidnapping. It was the perfect storm. Victim couldn't remember, my grandson admitted that he had stabbed the man (never in any trouble before this) but was attacked again and fearful for his life, and the prosecutor was up for re-election and campaigned that he had put all these people in prison and they wouldn't be a bother (so re-elect me, I am doing a great job) and said to our lawyer that he would not accept anything except prison. The judge was sympathetic but his hands were tied if the prosecutor wouldn't relent as this was a high profile case in this small community and he wanted to stay another four years. I learned then that the justice system in not your friend and it is all about filling the prisons. They really don't want to hear the truth. My solace is that the man didn't die and is a miserable unhappy human and will never find any happiness in this lifetime. I also understand that past karma played a big part in this and was playing out between the two. Hopefully they won't have to come back and play it out further.

Kind of related....hope I didn't hijack your thread but felt it was appropriate....

Jackson

GrnEggsNHam
28th July 2015, 21:34
Yes....what a great article. Well timed also.

I have a grandson that became caught up in the system (aged 21) Had a good job and was promoted twice, doing well. He was abducted by three men and taken to a condo and where the older man tried to rape him. He was very intoxicated (by them). He made his way into kitchen when to man attacked him again and tried to defend himself with a steak knife that was on the kitchen counter. The attacker was stabbed 6 times by my grandson and when the two other men came down from the bedroom, they maced my grandson and called 911. The police naturally took the side of the victim and tried to make it a hate crime by trying to get my grandson to admit he did because the man was gay. We hired a private detective to look into this man's past and discovered that he had done this type of thing several times and had not been prosecuted for even one event. The man's defense was that he didn't remember anything at all and the other two men didn't witness the event so it was my grandson's word against theirs. The court wouldn't allow any of his past events to be admitted in a trial so we had to accept a plea bargain. My grandson was charged with assault with a deadly weapon and assault 3 and gave him 18 months in prison and he is now a felon and certain rights are denied him. My anger was in the fact that they really didn't want to look any further into the crime and didn't charge the other two with kidnapping. It was the perfect storm. Victim couldn't remember, my grandson admitted that he had stabbed the man (never in any trouble before this) but was attacked again and fearful for his life, and the prosecutor was up for re-election and campaigned that he had put all these people in prison and they wouldn't be a bother (so re-elect me, I am doing a great job) and said to our lawyer that he would not accept anything except prison. The judge was sympathetic but his hands were tied if the prosecutor wouldn't relent as this was a high profile case in this small community and he wanted to stay another four years. I learned then that the justice system in not your friend and it is all about filling the prisons. They really don't want to hear the truth. My solace is that the man didn't die and is a miserable unhappy human and will never find any happiness in this lifetime. I also understand that past karma played a big part in this and was playing out between the two. Hopefully they won't have to come back and play it out further.

Kind of related....hope I didn't hijack your thread but felt it was appropriate....

Jackson

I am currently appealing a ludicrous sentence myself. I was charged with reckless driving(102mph in a 65mph zone) in 2012 in a county 2 hours away from where I live and work(had the job for 3 weeks when this happened). I faxed a letter of continuance to the court citing my inability to attend. The day of the hearing I called to see when my new hearing date was. I was informed my continuance was thrown out due to me not being there and a bench warrant was issued for my arrest. What!? Ok, whatever people I will go on with my life. I just stopped driving and took public transport or biked/walked everywhere. Here I am in 2015 expecting my first child in a month and we just purchased our first home. My wife whom I married in 2014 wants me to clear my name of the warrant before our child is born. So 3 months ago I took off work and turned myself in. Posted bail and received my arraignment date. I then took off work again and went to my arraignment. I was denied a lawyer because I make too much money. I was told to represent myself or obtain one on my own. I can't afford a lawyer so I had to ask my mommy to pay for one. Good thing I did because if I hadn't I would be in jail right now with no job. 2 weeks ago I go to my hearing and I receive a sentence of 25 days jail time(90 days suspended license) for reckless driving and failure to appear for my first hearing(the one I faxed the continuance in for). No serving on weekends just straight to jail and I was in handcuffs. The lawyer filed my appeal and I was released. I know driving at that speed is not safe and I was ready to accept a reasonable punishment for a victimless crime. Honestly a fine and a suspended license is all that is necessary but instead I get days in jail? Meaning I will lose my job for sure... It's incredibly sad but my only hope is that the judge at my appeal hearing allows me to serve the time on the weekends. But even that brings up ridiculous circumstances. Like how am I supposed to get to the jail that is 2 hours away when I cannot drive? In the US we do not have reliable public transit to go between these smaller counties/towns. I made an error in judgement while driving. I should've slowed down and gotten behind the line of 18-wheelers when I saw the lane is ending sign. Instead I sped up to that 100mph speed and got in front of them an a cop just happened to be hiding during that .25-.35 mile stretch. For that mistake I will now likely lose my job and subsequently my house because with my license suspended I won't be able to get a job with a similar salary as my current. Apparently this is justice...

My apologies for also derailing this topic and posting my pity party.

Ernie Nemeth
29th July 2015, 01:33
No need for apologies. The op is a trigger for sure.

We have abrogated our sovereign right to see justice done for ourselves. Instead we have allowed a bunch of elite, high paid, out of touch with the rest of humanity sociopaths with a misguided superiority complex to mete out justice to us riff raff. So of course they are harsh and lacking compassion and fairness - they live, breath, and ruminate way up high in their ivory towers - the view is rosy from on high...

Chester
30th January 2016, 22:09
Corroboration of sorts to Carmody's post # 2 above through the "Orion Model" as explained by Alex Collier:


Orion model

One of Alex Collier's interviews by Robert Stanley who yanked those interviews off his website...


Alex Collier interview, 2011-10-27
http://kiwi6.com/file/f8s5019nne (http://kiwi6.com/file/f8s5019nne)


Welcome to a new episode of Unicus Radio, I am your host Robert Stanley we have a special guest, our friend Alex Collier.

“ …our ancient ancestors, the Sumerians, the Egyptians they all had full knowledge of our cousins. They often saw them in the air, they had some forms of interaction between them and humanity on a relatively frequent basis. The Mayans, the Aztecs also have the same stories of being with the gods and you know, agriculture, horticulture, manufacturing were all taught to our ancestors. It’s after, really, the sinking of Atlantis and then the last pole shift that occurred which was caused by the Anunaki where everything kind of went black, and then what we have basically, we have all these legends on this as we are taught but are in fact based on actual history. Now, as far as the freeing of the galaxy…

“I am gona tell you what I have been told.

“’For the most part, most of the galaxy is pretty civilized, ok. It’ really matured, it’s coming to its own. But there are some areas, mostly on the outskirts, where it’s still pretty [much] considered “jungle.” But that’s changing rapidly as well. Now, if you remember when I first started speaking, the Andromedans, Moreney and Faceyas, had said that tyranny showed up in our galaxy in the future and they had come back in time to find out what was going on and they had narrowed it down – not just the As but several groups or teams that were part of the Adromedan council -- had come back and had focused it to this particular area of our solar system.

“Now, we have some really bad elements here. They are not just here but in this kind of sector, this part of our galaxy. Some are in our solar system, obviously, and some are directly underneath us. But some are also inhabiting some of the other planets and moons in our solar system.

05:00
“Basically this was like a free zone. This was an area where nobody paid attention to. And it's because of that that this rogue element was drawn here because they felt like they could do whatever the hell they wanted to do. In essence you could say this was like a lure to them. This area that nobody gives a sh*t about, that’s where we go, that’s where we hide. Like pirates would do.

“So, they come here en masse, in numbers, not only physically but dimensionally. The dimensional part, doors were opened for them so they could actually come in and now basically what you have now is that you have this cesspool of just renegades who for the most part have all their own agendas. They may have different agendas, but none of those agendas are really about the betterment and welfare of the natives. It’s all about what can we get for ourselves. And humanity has mirrored this as well, you know, in our history.

“So, now, what we have is that the doors are closing. Behind this group, I know there are some basically saying it’s over, and that is absolutely so far from the truth. And I’ll give you an analogy of why that's so far from the truth. Now, it is clear that they are backing up and they are beginning to know that they are cornered. But it isn’t over because we are between them and the good guys. For the most part humanity is completely unaware of what’s really going on around themselves. Humanity is in a very precarious position.

“But I’ll just give you this analogy. You even hear it with some of these speakers saying, you know, a brand new financial system is coming in, and it’s gona be miraculous, it’s gona be absolutely wonderful; it’s gona replace the old system. Well, the old system was based on a fiat currency from, they only last about 80 years. So it’s coming to an end. It has reached its pinnacle of putting everybody in debt. So we have now a new financial system coming in. This is an Earth financial system. However it is being managed by other personages who are not solely human.

“At this point, there were only four countries that were not part of the Rothschild’s banking system. They were North Korea, Cuba, Libya and Iran. Well we know Libya is no longer a part of that. They're no longer free, they are now part of the Rothschild’s banking system. The next would be Iran and we are already hearing the ramblings about going to war with Iran and making them the bad guy. As far as North Korea and Cuba, I don’t think anybody gives a sh*t about those two countries.

“So, this should show everyone that what they’re hearing that it’s all over, it’s time to relax, you know, pick up your heels, open a six-pack, you know, it’s way premature, way premature.


25:30
“Most people in government don’t really understand the real element of control here and that it’s extraterrestrial. They are aware of the human element. Those that have awareness of it, made a choice to succumb to this evil. I am sure that they were probably threatened and that their families were threatened, etc. Because we have inherited this problem. Those alive today inherited this problem. But this is the Orion Model.

“This is what the Orions, both the human aspect of what’s the Anunaki are a part of and the Reptilian lineages used to do, hundreds and hundreds of millions of years ago when the colonization of galaxies was in its beginning and its infancy. I don’t even know how many years ago that was.

“But this is the Orion Model: they would come in with different gods, they would separate the humanity of that planet. They would change their language. They would teach them a faith or a religion to separate them even more. Then they would use them to fight one another to build animosity and distrust.

“That alone changes the entire harmonic of not only the race but the planet. They think holographically, they know this stuff. They know what it does, ok, because they have all this knowledge.

“So, when you have planetary race and a planet vibrating at a low frequency, it is like a nesting zone for these guys. And when that’s done, what they then do is they corrupt, they create a priesthood to be the intermediaries between humanity and them because the more hidden they are, especially if they are regressive, the more stealth they are, the easier it is for them to manipulate.

“So, they use their human priesthoods, or their priesthoods – I am assuming all the races are human; they are not -- to basically implement the strategy and the plan.

“Once they have absolute control of a planet and the humanity on it and all the resources, just before they expose themselves, come forward and introduce themselves as gods, what they do is they eliminate all the people that helped them. All, the priesthoods, all the intermediaries, all the middle management, they eliminate all of them so there is no one left to tell the story. And they erase history. Then the humanity on that particular planet is floundering around wondering “Who the hell are we?” “what’s true, what isn’t true? “How do you explain this?” “That religion says that.” It creates all this confusion and no one is on the same page and that’s exactly how they managed to control these planets.

““Ordo ab chao”

“You cannot enslave a planet that is well educated and you have a humanity that knows who it is on high spiritual principles. You cannot enslave a race like that.”


Did Robert Stanley give any reason for removing this interview?

If not, does anyone at least have a good guess as to perhaps why?

Hervé
27th October 2016, 15:27
The business/profit virus... AKA Greed:

Slave labor: Prison food contractors funded efforts to combat marijuana legalization (http://www.mintpressnews.com/prison-food-contractors-funded-efforts-combat-marijuana-legalization/221750/)

John Vibes Mint Press News (http://www.mintpressnews.com/prison-food-contractors-funded-efforts-combat-marijuana-legalization/221750/) Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:50 UTC



https://www.sott.net/image/s17/353589/large/AP_1202010106391.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s17/353589/full/AP_1202010106391.jpg)
An inmate makes a sandwich while working in the employees’ cafeteria at Coxsackie Correctional Facility in Coxsackie, N.Y.


Food Services of America, a subsidiary of Services Group of America is funding efforts to keep marijuana illegal. It makes sense, considering that a vast majority of America's prisoners are locked in prison on marijuana charges, and the company stands to gain a lot of business from the laws staying the same.

Marijuana.com report (http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/10/prison-food-company-funds-legal-marijuana-opposition/)ed (http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/10/prison-food-company-funds-legal-marijuana-opposition/) that the company donated $80,000 to a campaign committee opposing the legal cannabis measure on Arizona's November ballot.

Services Group of America has been criticized in the past (http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/inmates-at-butte-jail-say-nutritional-needs-aren-t-met/article_8902dca8-139a-58c0-80e2-4b400006c311.html) for providing food to prisons that failed to meet basic nutritional requirements.

The report also indicated that the Arizona state Chamber of Commerce contributed $498,000 to the same campaign week. The effort also received a half million dollar donation from opioid maker Insys Therapeutics (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/52079-2/) as well as sizeable contributions from various players in the alcohol industry.

The influence that the alcohol and pharmaceutical industries have on keeping marijuana illegal has been well documented, but the influence of prison contractors is rarely discussed.

The prison industry is one of the fastest growing and top-earning businesses in the United States. In the past three decades, this enterprise has grown into a monstrous system of oppression that now houses over 2 and a half million people in the US. This number is, by far, the largest prison population in the world. No country on earth has as many inmates as the "land of the free."

Ironic isn't it? Since 1991 the violent crime rate in America has dropped at least 20%, while the amount of people in prison has increased by 50% in that time. These numbers show that the rapid growth in the prison population is primarily due to over prosecution of nonviolent crimes.

This has nothing to do with "cleaning up the streets" or making our society safer — it is all about money and control. The prison system as it stands now does not make our society any safer but instead turns average nonviolent offenders into hardened criminals (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/truth-police-violence-blacklivematter-telling/)by exposing them to such a harsh environment.

The sad truth is that the way our prison system has been structured has actually outlawed more than half of the US population. Nonviolent offenders have no place behind bars. The savage conditions of prison will turn most people into violent offenders once they get out. Which is exactly what the prison establishment wants - return customers.

This establishment is the collection of state and quasi-state/private industries that make up the "prison industrial complex." Billions of dollars are made every year in this industry. One company, Wackenhut Corrections, makes over a billion dollars a year and they aren't even the biggest prison service in the country.

These numbers also don't take into consideration the many satellite businesses that surround this industry. There are over 1,000 vendors that specifically sell correctional paraphernalia. Even local phone companies cash in on the operation. The companies install payphones for free because those phones can generate $15,000 per year from each inmate making a phone call every day.

Those companies are just the tip of the iceberg. That isn't even counting the police, lawyers, wardens, politicians and food distributors that line their pockets through the incarceration of peaceful Americans.

All of these organizations have a distinct interest in keeping nonviolent people in jail. So, it should come as no surprise a prison contractor is working to keep marijuana illegal.

Michelle Marie
25th November 2017, 18:58
The entire criminal justice system functions on mass hypocrisy. It cannot ever be fair or impartial (as humans cannot be 100% fair or impartial, let alone with the police militarization and insider cultures promoted by their "Internal Affairs" style of handling misconduct.) but to function it requires it be sold as both of these things. (So that the governed will trust the system enough to turn over evidence to it and cooperate with it.) Our social institutions are all built on contradictions just like these. Worse, to maintain the contradictions we allow government to propagandize and lie about the virtues of these systems under the guise of "state secrets" and other odious national security language to keep just how dysfunctional our system is out of the public eye so that people will still continue to trust/use it.

This is why I'm sure police misconduct is handled how it is. Because if everyone regularly heard about Law Enforcement's screwups they'd probably never trust it.

I don't trust law enforcement.

I don't trust the court system.

My rights have been violated and I have been harmed.

There is no ethical law enforcement. They are dangerous criminals in police costumes infringing on the rights and freedoms of others.

There might be some good cops and true criminals, but the criminals I'm seeing hold high positions and pass laws and engage in murder to make themselves immune to being caught, restrained, and reformed. The criminal police and courts I personally experienced clearly were bullies operating outside the law within the system. (Too prevalent these days.)

Hopefully, the current momentum of truth will change all of this.

Law enforcement makes me feel in danger instead of safe.

MM

Michelle Marie
25th November 2017, 19:11
The business/profit virus... AKA Greed:

Slave labor: Prison food contractors funded efforts to combat marijuana legalization (http://www.mintpressnews.com/prison-food-contractors-funded-efforts-combat-marijuana-legalization/221750/)

John Vibes Mint Press News (http://www.mintpressnews.com/prison-food-contractors-funded-efforts-combat-marijuana-legalization/221750/) Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:50 UTC



https://www.sott.net/image/s17/353589/large/AP_1202010106391.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s17/353589/full/AP_1202010106391.jpg)
An inmate makes a sandwich while working in the employees’ cafeteria at Coxsackie Correctional Facility in Coxsackie, N.Y.


Food Services of America, a subsidiary of Services Group of America is funding efforts to keep marijuana illegal. It makes sense, considering that a vast majority of America's prisoners are locked in prison on marijuana charges, and the company stands to gain a lot of business from the laws staying the same.

Marijuana.com report (http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/10/prison-food-company-funds-legal-marijuana-opposition/)ed (http://www.marijuana.com/blog/news/2016/10/prison-food-company-funds-legal-marijuana-opposition/) that the company donated $80,000 to a campaign committee opposing the legal cannabis measure on Arizona's November ballot.

Services Group of America has been criticized in the past (http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/inmates-at-butte-jail-say-nutritional-needs-aren-t-met/article_8902dca8-139a-58c0-80e2-4b400006c311.html) for providing food to prisons that failed to meet basic nutritional requirements.

The report also indicated that the Arizona state Chamber of Commerce contributed $498,000 to the same campaign week. The effort also received a half million dollar donation from opioid maker Insys Therapeutics (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/52079-2/) as well as sizeable contributions from various players in the alcohol industry.

The influence that the alcohol and pharmaceutical industries have on keeping marijuana illegal has been well documented, but the influence of prison contractors is rarely discussed.

The prison industry is one of the fastest growing and top-earning businesses in the United States. In the past three decades, this enterprise has grown into a monstrous system of oppression that now houses over 2 and a half million people in the US. This number is, by far, the largest prison population in the world. No country on earth has as many inmates as the "land of the free."

Ironic isn't it? Since 1991 the violent crime rate in America has dropped at least 20%, while the amount of people in prison has increased by 50% in that time. These numbers show that the rapid growth in the prison population is primarily due to over prosecution of nonviolent crimes.

This has nothing to do with "cleaning up the streets" or making our society safer — it is all about money and control. The prison system as it stands now does not make our society any safer but instead turns average nonviolent offenders into hardened criminals (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/truth-police-violence-blacklivematter-telling/)by exposing them to such a harsh environment.

The sad truth is that the way our prison system has been structured has actually outlawed more than half of the US population. Nonviolent offenders have no place behind bars. The savage conditions of prison will turn most people into violent offenders once they get out. Which is exactly what the prison establishment wants - return customers.

This establishment is the collection of state and quasi-state/private industries that make up the "prison industrial complex." Billions of dollars are made every year in this industry. One company, Wackenhut Corrections, makes over a billion dollars a year and they aren't even the biggest prison service in the country.

These numbers also don't take into consideration the many satellite businesses that surround this industry. There are over 1,000 vendors that specifically sell correctional paraphernalia. Even local phone companies cash in on the operation. The companies install payphones for free because those phones can generate $15,000 per year from each inmate making a phone call every day.

Those companies are just the tip of the iceberg. That isn't even counting the police, lawyers, wardens, politicians and food distributors that line their pockets through the incarceration of peaceful Americans.

All of these organizations have a distinct interest in keeping nonviolent people in jail. So, it should come as no surprise a prison contractor is working to keep marijuana illegal.


They are just making innocent people appear guilty. Those who profit in these unethical practices should be restrained in educational institutions (like jails, only with a purpose to rehabilitate their values) until their conscience works properly.

MM

Valerie Villars
3rd July 2018, 22:22
:bump::bump::bump:

I'm bumping this because it's damn good stuff. Carmody and Ernie are invaluable.

Foxie Loxie
10th July 2018, 20:09
Agreed, Val!! :highfive: Let's see....why was Dinesh D'souza incarcerated?!! :idea:

Valerie Villars
10th July 2018, 20:35
He was incarcerated for having given some money as a campaign contribution, probably to some Republican election campaign. He violated some obscure and almost never enforced campaign contribution law which is only enforced if you piss off certain people. It wasn't much as I recall.

It was obvious they were out to get him for being out-spoken about the Democratic Party's real intentions, aspirations and history.

I want to emphasize this is the way he presents it but after having watched his documentary, I can believe that's the way it really went down.

Foxie Loxie
11th July 2018, 19:56
Sorry, Val...that was rather a rhetorical question!! :o It is simply astounding how many HAVE been incarcerated by the Swamp Creatures!! It is amazing how this Titanic is beginning to turn around after being headed in the same direction for SO many years!! :dancing:

Valerie Villars
11th July 2018, 20:23
:facepalm:

Carmody
12th July 2018, 11:25
Well, they needed an enemy, a lower caste new enemy. (their thinking, not mine)

So they imported the problem. Forcibly imported the problem. At least it might be possible to interpret it that way.

So a fascist reboot of North America and Europe. Europe gets to be united in the process.

Then both descend on the common enemy, in the middle east. And go to war with the far east, at the same time. Openly and semi-silently economically, and so on.

Canada legalizes cannabis and we see other parts of the system fighting back. Like new laws about detection of use of cannabis, mouth swabs.

Well, mouth swabs can be used to collect DNA as well. That will be struck down fairly fast as an illegal enterprise. No mouth swabs.

At a road side check, random or otherwise...say no to mouth swabs. It might take a few years for the charge to clear, but the mouth swab (or blood collection) must always be a no (denied), if you don't want your DNA collected.

The Cannabis laws in canada set the stage for the destruction/erosion of the USA's Military industrial complex's financial means to an end, which is excessive incarceration.

So they speed up the dissolution of the underlying fiances of the continent itself.

Enter Trump and trade wars, to break the financial/economic system apart and bring on the downturn more quickly. Chaos, so they can run a system of their design through it. They have to make the downturn happen before a system can right itself. Otherwise their door of an opportunity will close.

Then there is this, slowing reform and correction down (keeping the ugly up and going):

The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

The class divide is already toxic, and is fast becoming unbridgeable. You’re probably part of the problem.

(Atlantic magazine article) (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/)

You appear to be looking at a slow motion war, with the entire world as the ground and fodder of it.

petra
17th October 2018, 16:00
My take on the whole matter is simple: no one should ever be imprisoned. Instead, there should only be two courses of action, two choices - a quick and merciful death or real, true, fair rehabilitation.
..

I'm interested to see what others may think.
Any opinions?

I got as far as the above paragraph and don't need to go any farther yet. I already agree, and I already have my contributions.

This kind of connects into this Justifying Murder (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92127-Justifying-murder...&highlight=justifying) thread which I started a while back.

At the time I wrote that, it was the main thing on my mind. How we choose to deal with criminals as a whole is important! This is a huge factor in our evolution as a species.

I was just searching for "vengeance" all by itself, and this thread came up.

Maybe I am a potential murderer, but I sure as heck wouldn't be a vengeful one! The difference is Mercy.

It's impossible for me to forgive someone who's not legitimately sorry (as in they won't do it again), mostly because I'd feel like an idiot for doing so. It's also impossible to know how they're *really* feeling - and that's where we get stuck.

I'm not vengeful (I can't recall a single time!) and I generally don't like vengeful people either.... unless those are the people who are standing up for my (or our) rights.

Maybe vengeance isn't as bad as I thought it was. Other people's so called vengeance can trigger feelings of love, happiness and thankfulness in me....!
I'll never forget the dream I had (described in the murder thread at post #11). I was just so thankful to be FREE

Pam
18th October 2018, 12:19
I really do think that most people can be rehabilitated. In the US we make it so ridiculously hard for anyone that has a felony conviction to gain employment or housing that is greatly increases the probability of them returning to a prison setting. I also believe there are a few who will refuse rehabilitation or simply cannot be. I do think that keeping them away from others is the better way. If you are a predator while incarcerated you need to be isolated.

Incarcerating drug addicts is big business. They are one of the few groups that PC doesn't care to turn into victims. It is absolutely pathetic to lock up drug addicts and alcoholics just for possession or use.

Prison for profit is a really bad idea. People will just become fodder for the mill. I have heard of prisons for profit demanding that communities provide them with a certain amount of prisoners. Does that make cops have to go out and look for offenders to "fill the house"? We definitely live in a time where corruption is maxing out.

Pam
18th October 2018, 12:23
My take on the whole matter is simple: no one should ever be imprisoned. Instead, there should only be two courses of action, two choices - a quick and merciful death or real, true, fair rehabilitation.
..

I'm interested to see what others may think.
Any opinions?

I got as far as the above paragraph and don't need to go any farther yet. I already agree, and I already have my contributions.

This kind of connects into this Justifying Murder (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92127-Justifying-murder...&highlight=justifying) thread which I started a while back.

At the time I wrote that, it was the main thing on my mind. How we choose to deal with criminals as a whole is important! This is a huge factor in our evolution as a species.

I was just searching for "vengeance" all by itself, and this thread came up.

Maybe I am a potential murderer, but I sure as heck wouldn't be a vengeful one! The difference is Mercy.

It's impossible for me to forgive someone who's not legitimately sorry (as in they won't do it again), mostly because I'd feel like an idiot for doing so. It's also impossible to know how they're *really* feeling - and that's where we get stuck.

I'm not vengeful (I can't recall a single time!) and I generally don't like vengeful people either.... unless those are the people who are standing up for my (or our) rights.

Maybe vengeance isn't as bad as I thought it was. Other people's so called vengeance can trigger feelings of love, happiness and thankfulness in me....!
I'll never forget the dream I had (described in the murder thread at post #11). I was just so thankful to be FREE


There are some really, really violent, unapologetic sociopaths out there. What about pedophiles that don't want to change? What do you propose happens to them? Would you feel the same way if they moved next door to you? Would you rent them a room in your house?

petra
18th October 2018, 15:01
There are some really, really violent, unapologetic sociopaths out there. What about pedophiles that don't want to change? What do you propose happens to them?

I'd kill them personally as long as I didn't think I'd be punished for it. Painlessly of course.
I'd be willing to deal with the consequences of my actions.

I like how you clarified 'don't want to change' because I know for a fact there's people out there with pedophile tendencies that do NOT like those tendencies one bit.


Would you feel the same way if they moved next door to you?

Yeah, so they darn well better hope I don't find out about their dirty little secrets.



Would you rent them a room in your house?


Hell no, and if they were to trick me, they'd definitely be dead - Laws or No Laws.
Really hope I don't end up in jail someday myself :P