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Wookie
15th August 2010, 23:49
If I have freedom of speech should I not also have freedom to not hear? more than not listen, to not hear, see or feel what is spoken at all? Is this censorship or personal sovereignty? How far can one take freedom of speech before it become more than a right to speak ones mind? (copied and edited from another thread) Freedom to preach or freedom of speech? Say what ever you like about my beliefs and actions, they are not me. Yes I have beliefs and often my beliefs lead to the actions I take but I am more than just beliefs and actions I am a human. Sometimes Beliefs and actions are so fundamental to a persons view of them selves that it becomes difficult to take criticism or insult to said beliefs and actions. Where is the line? Personally I feel freedom of speech becomes verbal assault when a person is attacked not his/her beliefs and actions. Even though I have the right to be disrespectful towards someone I choose to be respectful, not because I am afraid of what will happen, but because the person is more than just their beliefs and actions. Maybe the person has been brought up to believe and act in a manor that doesn't agree with me. Yes, I have the right to tell them that but why? what will telling a person that everything they believe in and all there actions are wrong do to solve the problem, if in fact there is a problem. Freedom of speech is about being able to talk about anything, not an excuse to belittle, insult, or attack someone. Now if a belief or action is harmful and the person or people connected to the belief or action can not separate themselves from it how does one express their right to freedom of speech with out being disrespectful? Well that comes down to the language used, and to the listener. No matter how much research, logic, and love one brings some people just cant be reasoned with. Often the line between respect and disrespect is between both speaker and listener. What good are beliefs and actions that can not be openly discussed? Freedom to preach, to say what they think and feel and have a choice if they want to explain their point of view or not, is simply that preaching and i have the right to ignore the preaching just as much as the preacher has the right to preach. But whats the point? if I'm so insecure about what I am saying that I am not open enough to have a dialog about it there must be some underlining dout to the credibility of my beliefs and actions. Once free speech is heard there is some form of a communication contract between speaker and listener, and it is up to both parties to agree or disagree on said contract. If the listener has no say in the contract then it becomes free preach and is all about control. These views are my own and feel free to comment, attack, and slander my beliefs, ideas, and actions but leave me as a person out of it.

Peaceful Journeys with love. Wookie

Rimbaud
16th August 2010, 00:08
If I have freedom of speech should I not also have freedom to not hear? more than not listen, to not hear, see or feel what is spoken at all? Is this censorship or personal sovereignty? How far can one take freedom of speech before it become more than a right to speak ones mind? (copied and edited from another thread) Freedom to preach or freedom of speech? Say what ever you like about my beliefs and actions, they are not me. Yes I have beliefs and often my beliefs lead to the actions I take but I am more than just beliefs and actions I am a human. Sometimes Beliefs and actions are so fundamental to a persons view of them selves that it becomes difficult to take criticism or insult to said beliefs and actions. Where is the line? Personally I feel freedom of speech becomes verbal assault when a person is attacked not his/her beliefs and actions. Even though I have the right to be disrespectful towards someone I choose to be respectful, not because I am afraid of what will happen, but because the person is more than just their beliefs and actions. Maybe the person has been brought up to believe and act in a manor that doesn't agree with me. Yes, I have the right to tell them that but why? what will telling a person that everything they believe in and all there actions are wrong do to solve the problem, if in fact there is a problem. Freedom of speech is about being able to talk about anything, not an excuse to belittle, insult, or attack someone. Now if a belief or action is harmful and the person or people connected to the belief or action can not separate themselves from it how does one express their right to freedom of speech with out being disrespectful? Well that comes down to the language used, and to the listener. No matter how much research, logic, and love one brings some people just cant be reasoned with. Often the line between respect and disrespect is between both speaker and listener. What good are beliefs and actions that can not be openly discussed? Freedom to preach, to say what they think and feel and have a choice if they want to explain their point of view or not, is simply that preaching and i have the right to ignore the preaching just as much as the preacher has the right to preach. But whats the point? if I'm so insecure about what I am saying that I am not open enough to have a dialog about it there must be some underlining dout to the credibility of my beliefs and actions. Once free speech is heard there is some form of a communication contract between speaker and listener, and it is up to both parties to agree or disagree on said contract. If the listener has no say in the contract then it becomes free preach and is all about control. These views are my own and feel free to comment, attack, and slander my beliefs, ideas, and actions but leave me as a person out of it.

Peaceful Journeys with love. Wookie

This is a "prose" poem..and a beautiful one at that..God Bless Wookie..can you send us more?

Rimbaud

Steven
16th August 2010, 01:19
Thanks Wookie for this thread :)

Freedom, Respect, Rights, Responsibility. Giving to one of these concepts an absolute preponderance regardless of the others is close to tyranny. The world we live in and the beings we are is a complex compound of concepts that together, in a wonderful order, creates the whole. Unity in diversity. We are gregarious and we live and grow together. Relationship, communication, social impact, are among the fabric of our material experience. If Freedom alone rules absolutely, regardless of this coherent structure, rights, responsibility and respect are neglected one way or another.

For example this forum. It is just like our world, in a more distinctive manner. Let's suppose that for the sake of "freedom of speech" we choose no guidelines, mission, structures, it is formless. It can become whatever. A forum about anything, where all specters of human attitude (including death treat) could be allowed. Where all kind of information (from cooking to preaching) true or false, researched or not, could be available. Would you be still interested? Not me ;) So, where do we put the limits? That is where the shapes of the community takes form. What is our main mission? What do we accept and refuse? We are all different and have different cultures, value, human experience. So, where do we find a common ground? That is where I think, respect comes in. What are my responsibilities? What are the responsibilities of the moderation team on the forum? Do we all agree upon the guidelines? If my right to say freely my mind of whatever I wish to whoever, would I be respecting this person's right to be treated with respect?

In a world where absolute freedom is king, there is not much room for rights and respects. Because it all depends who has this overpowered freedom. The Elite of our world doesn't respect our rights. But, in their point of view, they have the right to do it so because they are free and above all laws. Absolute rights, absolute freedom, absolute responsibility or absolute respect creates a problem. If I respect anything, anyone without regard to anything else, I will simply sit a stop to breath. We have an impact and we influence everything around. That is where responsibility comes into play.

So an intelligent balance between these concepts are quite important. Balance in all things. We live in a magnificent order.

Namaste, Steven

HORIZONS
16th August 2010, 02:41
"Freedom - It may not be what you want it to be, but it will be what it is and that is free." -Mike Cudd, the misguided mystic.

RedeZra
16th August 2010, 04:38
tnx for the words Wookie


I just watched a clip about the police in Canada infiltrating a peaceful demonstration in 2007 with the purpose of inciting a clash so as to discredit the group and the claims of the peaceful protesters



So it has come to this

BWbgnyUCC7M

Steven
16th August 2010, 21:58
Respect is a care for someone, something, to accept reducing our personal freedom to increase the one to this being, thing.

Namaste, Steven

MariaDine
16th August 2010, 23:07
«Sometimes Beliefs and actions are so fundamental to a persons view of them selves that it becomes difficult to take criticism or insult to said beliefs and actions. Where is the line? »

I took out an important bit of the text that Rimbaud posted above..................Yes...where is the line? .............watch the same question in the video bellow
LOVE
MD



«Sometimes Beliefs and actions are so fundamental to a persons view of them selves that it becomes difficult to take criticism or insult to said beliefs and actions. Where is the line? »

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk37TD_08eA&feature=related

Anchor
17th August 2010, 00:05
I read the opening post and ended up feeling like I just read a John Donne "meditation" :)

There is always freedom of speech, but then there are the mechanics of the forum - comprising its software, and the policies and attidudes of the "human" components of its administrative and mangement matrix that decides what happens to it on and ongoing basis. There is obviously a balance between unconstrained speech and what is allowed to remain on the forum.

It is where that balance is set, and how it is maintained that acts as the attractor for the membership. When the character of that balance changes, so does the membership.

John..

Wookie
8th June 2011, 03:29
I was rereading some of the threads I had posted on today and found this little nugget that i felt strongly about almost a year ago and still feel strongly about today. It seems fitting to bump this thread as some of the ideas I talked about and the ideas of the other posters seem just as relevant, if not more so, than they did then. So much has changes and stayed the same over the last year here at PA that i want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject matter.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

Lord Sidious
8th June 2011, 03:42
I was rereading some of the threads I had posted on today and found this little nugget that i felt strongly about almost a year ago and still feel strongly about today. It seems fitting to bump this thread as some of the ideas I talked about and the ideas of the other posters seem just as relevant, if not more so, than they did then. So much has changes and stayed the same over the last year here at PA that i want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject matter.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

What is this bumping your own threads nuggetry?
Oh, by the way.
Bump.

Nasu
8th June 2011, 05:38
Wookie, Sid, what does bump mean? Bump...N

Lord Sidious
8th June 2011, 05:46
Wookie, Sid, what does bump mean? Bump...N

It is a word you use to bring a thread back to the top of the front page and internal search engine.
I believe it stands for
B ring
U s back to that
M otherf**king front
P age.
Or something. :p

Chuck
8th June 2011, 05:54
Thanks wookie

... and last respects to a fallen brother...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN35GLxmk1E&feature=youtu.be

Wookie
8th June 2011, 07:39
Chuck its been along time since i have seen something that had the kind of affect the above video had on me. Your Bill of Rights as an America, My Charter of Rights as a Canadian, and basic Human Rights as a species this is what is at stake. What happened to being the shinning light of hope and liberty? What happen to the "Golden Rule"? I am so angry right now I'm shaking. I'm better than this, you are better than this, the whole Human race is better than this. WAKE THE %!@# UP PEOPLE!!!! I had intended the thread to be focused on what is happening in out little forum community both last August and today, but seeing that video and thinking about all the other violations of human rights around the world I have to reconsider. I am humbled by my own over sight or lack of vision and for that I would like to thank you Chuck for expanding my view and opening my eyes just alittle bit wider. Basic Human Rights and Liberty these are the concepts that can motivate good honest people to fight for their beliefs. These are the concepts that brave good people lost their lives to protect. Not oil, Not drugs, Not slaves, Not power, Not wealth, and sure as hell NOT TO LINE THE POCKETS of TPTW. I can not help feeling responsible for my ignorance. I did not know why as a Canadian I was asked to remember my fallen country men on Remembrance Day, yes i had a naive idea of why but there is only so much one can "know" with out living it. Still safe in my quite little town, i no longer feel that I am not part of the bigger picture. I want to take this opportunity to stand up and say:

I am a sovereign 'Being' and I do not recognize the authority of anyone or anything that would deprive basic Human rights and liberty from any other 'Being'
You do not have the authority to kill, harm, or anyway interfere in the lives of my fellow humans, or others.
I SAY NO!
STOP!
NOW!
I and many others still have the integrity to forgive. For how much longer? Do you really want to find out? Do your really want a angry mob of 7 billion people that have had enough and are no longer willing to settle for less than your head on a stake?
I SAY NO!
We as a race are on a path we have traveled many times before we know where it leads, we know we don't want to go there, yet we march on like lambs to the slaughter. This lamb has teeth, and I live and die for the pack. TPTW will not see their goals come to fruit, their new dawn will not come, we the people of planet earth are on to you. So whilst there is still time for you TPTW STOP NOW before its too late. Repent, there is not much time left, GROW THE %$@! UP!! or we will kick you out of the car we call planet Earth and you will have to walk home. I say all of this out of love for you and all of your victims.
NO
STOP
NOW

Peaceful Journeys with Love and LAZERS Wookie

P.S. I will probably regret some of the anger present in this post later then again maybe not