Open chat about the Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure

[Eric J (Viking)]

Ok everyone is invited for their views on this. I dont mind critical or even a little sarcasm, as long as it is intended for humour.

I would like to ask everyone here for their opinions.

What are the advantages and disadvanges of disclosure. Who has the most to lose and who has the most to gain.

And I don't mean the disclosure we all know about here. I mean total world wide disclosure from the government and even an introduction from our star families and world wide confirmation that we are not alone.

http://skillingmagazin.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/ufo_horizon.jpg

I have tried to see the disadvatages of this, but perhaps I am blinded by my obvious passion. So hence here I would like to open up intellegent chat about the fors and against of 'worldly knowledge of our star brothers and sisters'. In my opinion this will manifest soon, whether it will be from the government or ET...who knows.

ps I am not trying to catch anyone out, just honest views and why.

viking

[Prodigal Son]

The only ones that stand to lose are the Old World Order and their Reptilian overlords. Humanity on earth has everything to gain. Just the release of the more than 6,000 patents they're suppressing would catapult mankind into a fantastic epoch of peace and prosperity. And when I say "mankind" and "humanity", I'm only talking about those of us who are confined to this particular planet.

I find it interesting that the type of ET's that were indoctrinated into our consciousness by the Spielberg movie are the artificial kind. The large heads and eyes on the skinny little bodies are the result of PLF (Programmable Life Form) technology. The fetus is grown in an artificial environment, and without having the pressure from the womb it retains fetal proportions and features. So these are the fake ones and are not going to be "benevolent". Our true alien friends look just like we do and I'm convinced that they have been living among us for quite some time. So we're programmed to think the fake ones are friendly and not believe the REAL ET's because they look just like us.

Lots of info about these PLB's here:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

The idea of this "free will quarantine" makes sense to me, for the purposes of evolution, but it also makes sense to me that there would be time limits on this quarantine, particularly when it's very existence puts the planet in danger of being destroyed completely by the cabal that has been able to run amok for 13 thousand years because of it.

[gooty64]

The tall whites would like to cordially invite the OP for dinner at their house, your one-way ticket is in the mail, Mr. OP!:p

[Eric J (Viking)]

The tall whites would like to cordially invite the OP for dinner at their house, your one-way ticket is in the mail, Mr. OP!:p

One way ticket hey....I wish...! ;)


Thanks Prodigal...i'll have a gander.

viking

[WhiteFeather]

I myself wouldnt mind getting some temporary assistance by our "Star Family" coming here briefly and pulling out the weeds that have consumed this beautiful garden. Besides the weeds that have grown here are not from this planet anyways. So a good weed and feed would be nice. And thus after removing the biggest weed known as "Godzilla" - The Energy Mafia.....Then we could start our developments in Free Energy Technologys.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0zRcsuhKoigDOMGWXHjjowZhnvxVY7y26W233OMlnITyGRV8_DA

[WhiteFeather]

The tall whites would like to cordially invite the OP for dinner at their house, your one-way ticket is in the mail, Mr. OP!:p

You know Your a pretty funny guy gooty64. Remind me of that Joe Pesci Scene In Goodfellas! Lol

[Eric J (Viking)]

The only ones that stand to lose are the Old World Order and their Reptilian overlords. Humanity on earth has everything to gain. Just the release of the more than 6,000 patents they're suppressing would catapult mankind into a fantastic epoch of peace and prosperity. And when I say "mankind" and "humanity", I'm only talking about those of us who are confined to this particular planet.

I find it interesting that the type of ET's that were indoctrinated into our consciousness by the Spielberg movie are the artificial kind. The large heads and eyes on the skinny little bodies are the result of PLF (Programmable Life Form) technology. The fetus is grown in an artificial environment, and without having the pressure from the womb it retains fetal proportions and features. So these are the fake ones and are not going to be "benevolent". Our true alien friends look just like we do and I'm convinced that they have been living among us for quite some time. So we're programmed to think the fake ones are friendly and not believe the REAL ET's because they look just like us.

Lots of info about these PLB's here:

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

The idea of this "free will quarantine" makes sense to me, for the purposes of evolution, but it also makes sense to me that there would be time limits on this quarantine, particularly when it's very existence puts the planet in danger of being destroyed completely by the cabal that has been able to run amok for 13 thousand years because of it.

Slightly off topic...not sure of anyone is aware of this but the chap that Steven Greers has teamed up with to make this film (Amardeep Kaleka)....his father was killed in the recent shooting!! read into it as you want...!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/amardeep-kaleka-sikh-temple-victims-son_n_1746465.html

Just thought I would mention...anyway lets hope the film is released ... apparently it will be a blockbuster...

viking

[Fred Steeves]

Hi viking, if a government official told me the sky was blue, I would have to walk outside and look up just to be sure. If it was a cloudy day, I would just have to wait. Therefore, whether they told me about ET, or ET suddenly just revealed themselves en masse, I would be thinking somewhere along the lines of Project Bluebeam.

Actually, even if a ship landed in my back yard, once I got the dogs to stop barking, (good luck with THAT one) I still wouldn't be in a rush to greet them with open arms. Just like if a stranger pulls in my driveway and wants to chat, fine, but they're not going to get an invite inside until I'm atleast reasonably certain of their intentions.

Now, as far as "worldly knowledge of our star brothers and sisters" is concerned, you're likely already friends with some. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Cheers Mate,
Fred

[K626]

Evidence shows that interaction with a super advanced culture carries huge dangers for the host culture.

The best way is to introduce is in tiny incriments so as not to destroy the identity and hopes and initiative of the less advanced society. Sudden access to limitless energy although seemingly ideal carries with it many issues: the breakdown of most of the host cultures way of doing business and industry (laying waste to power production)..Think of all the jobs gone in the blink of an eye. The danger of misuse as a weapons systems, uncheked growth etc...

Who we are is in a lot of ways defined by how we grow and develop, our struggle to overcome (our unique footprint). Wiping all of that out in one swoop by the introdction of systems and tech that makes us look and feel ridiculous would I imagine be very demoralising...Societies drive might break down...Whole cultures would go into an identity crisis. There is also the religious aspect...All swept away in an instant. This stuff might prove very destructive psychologically for mankind.

The advanced culture is well aware of the risks and probably is very reluctant to intervene unless it really has to.............

Just my initial thoughts...

love

K

[PurpleLama]

For the OP, I have some questions. Should the visitors reveal themselves en masse, would this not be seen as a huge violation of free will, as so many would not be ready to understand the implication of actual, physical ETs? Would this not effectively remove the possibility for people to think about it and choose for themselves what to accept, and what to believe, about life, the universe, and everything?

I recomment NanooNanoo's recent thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48110-The-Biggest-Show-On-Earth-WELCOME

[SilentFeathers]

Hi viking, if a government official told me the sky was blue, I would have to walk outside and look up just to be sure. If it was a cloudy day, I would just have to wait.


I agree Fred as I am also one who would have a very difficult time believing anything coming from a group of psychopathic liars who have proven themselves a broken arrow..........

[PurpleLama]

Hi viking, if a government official told me the sky was blue, I would have to walk outside and look up just to be sure. If it was a cloudy day, I would just have to wait. Therefore, whether they told me about ET, or ET suddenly just revealed themselves en masse, I would be thinking somewhere along the lines of Project Bluebeam.

Actually, even if a ship landed in my back yard, once I got the dogs to stop barking, (good luck with THAT one) I still wouldn't be in a rush to greet them with open arms. Just like if a stranger pulls in my driveway and wants to chat, fine, but they're not going to get an invite inside until I'm atleast reasonably certain of their intentions.

Now, as far as "worldly knowledge of our star brothers and sisters" is concerned, you're likely already friends with some. http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

Cheers Mate,
Fred

If one lands in your back yard, I believe the correct protocol would be to invite them on to the porch and offer them a beer. Then, maybe, when you run out of beer (ets drink fast) they will let you pilot their craft on the beer run.

[wynderer]

hi Viking --

true 'disclosure' by my own country's gov't would be along these lines: Sorry, guys -- we made treaties w/some ETs back in the '50s -- we have since learned that this was a mistake, as they have proven to be untrustworthy [likely some of our Op Paperclip nazis were in on the treaty-makings]

my understanding/experience is that planet Earth is a dangerous place for higher-dimensional ETs [those who are vibrating to a frequency closer to that of Love]-- those who have incarnated here, or [lawfully] 'walked in' to a Human body, are marked & targeted by the controllers [centralized schools & standardized tests are helpful to them to find us] -- many are regularly abducted by both ETs & our gov't -- & implanted & blocked in other ways from accessing our innate spiritual abilities

also i think that for a higher-dimensional ship to manifest in 3D is an invitation to be shot down -- even in 4D these days

[Eric J (Viking)]

Thanks Fred and all ... but I was looking more into the Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure...but much appreciated for your responses

Thanks K626...can you point me to a link about 'Evidence of super advanced culture carries huge dangers for the host culture'...I am very interested...I suppose we are slowly getting increments of disclosure one way or another...

Not sure about industries collapsing, some are as we speak...yes I have wondered about all the jobs lost, but would not more jobs be created with other introduction of technologies...yes I can understand a question of identities, but are not our identities manufactured??....also not sure if this would demoralize or raise up to a higher vibration...I also think religions need to come together as one anyway...well anyway some more thoughts...thanks again K626

@purple...I'll have a peep...

viking

[wynderer]

also i do not care for pyramidal/hierarchical power structures -- imo, by this endless waiting for official 'disclosure,' one gives one's power away to those higher up the pyramid

i've conducted my own little poll for yrs, asking folks if they've ever seen a UFO -- many people have, or have a close friend or family member who saw one

if the NWO would disappear & leave this poor planet alone, imo Earth Humans would happily take to the fact that we are so not alone in this 3D Universe [& beyond] -- that's a big 'if' tho

[Prodigal Son]

Slightly off topic...not sure of anyone is aware of this but the chap that Steven Greers has teamed up with to make this film (Amardeep Kaleka)....his father was killed in the recent shooting!! read into it as you want...!! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/amardeep-kaleka-sikh-temple-victims-son_n_1746465.html

Just thought I would mention...anyway lets hope the film is released ... apparently it will be a blockbuster...

viking

Of course my very first inclination when I heard about the Sikh Temple shooting was that it was just another psy-ops false flag for gun control, but I actually did, albeit momentarily, try to entertain the idea that maybe it was just a lone nut job because it was an Iraq war veteran. But then it didn't make sense because the Sikhs were the friendly ones and it should have been the Sunnis that a post-traumatic war veteran would go after. Then comes the news that there were multiple shooters, so that little attempt at being open-minded didn't last very long, and now we see the reason for this particular target, and we see who is getting a message delivered to them.

So many UFO researchers and whistleblowers end up being killed, like Bill Cooper, Phil Schneider, and Barbara Marciniak, it becomes quite obvious that their material is both trustworthy and very damaging to the PTB.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Thanks Prodigal ... yes they are buggers aren't they... (politely)

Anyway just a few thoughts whilst checking your link...

Some good info here from Steven...short and to the point...now I know some of you have a dislike to Greer...but listen to the message...


The Earth has been visited by people from other worlds who are not malicious, but in fact concerned for the future of humanity.



A cabal of military, industrial and financial interests have kept this contact and what we have learned from it secret for over 60 years
.
Their secrecy is meant to suppress the knowledge that can liberate the world from the yoke of oil, gas, coal and nuclear power and replace the current world order with one of New Energy and true Freedom.


Also here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtcFq2MT1bI&feature=player_embedded

Again to reiterate ... Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure.. appreciated for your responses

viking

[wynderer]

is Mr Greer still of the opinion that 'all ETs are benevolent' -- ?

many abductees have seen Greys , Reptilians, etc working w/Humans in uniforms & suits -- an unholy alliance


Thanks Prodigal ... yes they are buggers aren't they... (politely)

Anyway just a few thoughts whilst checking your link...

Some good info here from Steven...short and to the point...now I know some of you have a dislike to Greer...but listen to the message...


The Earth has been visited by people from other worlds who are not malicious, but in fact concerned for the future of humanity.



A cabal of military, industrial and financial interests have kept this contact and what we have learned from it secret for over 60 years
.
Their secrecy is meant to suppress the knowledge that can liberate the world from the yoke of oil, gas, coal and nuclear power and replace the current world order with one of New Energy and true Freedom.


Also here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtcFq2MT1bI&feature=player_embedded

Again to reiterate ... Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure.. appreciated for your responses

viking

[Amysenthia]

Hi Viking,

I just returned this weekend from the MUFON national conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. This discussion was the topic of many of the groups that gathered after each lecture to discuss the last presentation. Some of the die hard UFO hunters that were there wanted a more IN YOUR FACE type of disclosure. One person even said that they wanted to see flying saucers land on the White House front yard. Most others in the group feel that disclosure has been going on for some time. It has just been happening more subtlety. If you look at the vast amounts of movies, television series like Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Chasers, etc., (don’t even start me on the children’s programming). Then consider there is an entire network the SYFY channel that covers all things science fiction. How can you not say that disclosure has not been going on for decades now.

If anyone wants to know the truth about UFOs there is plenty of ways to find it. If the government truly did not want you to know about ETs do you really think they would not be doing more to stop internet access to sites about the subject. Or doing more to debunk people who come out to talk about their experiences.

Personally I see disclosure as a double edged sword. As stated by others in this thread the ramifications of the existence of ETs would disrupt much of our way of existence while it propelled us into a greater use of technologies. Look at the jobs lost by those that work in the energy areas of coal, gas, electric, nuclear, and hydro-generated power. Not to mention the industries that make the products to support these areas, such as cars, buses, trains, planes, and all of the parts manufacturers. Then let us suppose that they are going to bring advanced medicine/healing practices. There goes the hospitals & workers. Doctors, nurses, aides, food service workers,janitors, drug stores, etc. The list goes on and on of the people that would now have no livelihoods.

Then don’t even start to discuss the upheavals in religious beliefs. What happens when they explain to everyone that religion is a man made mechanism to keep the masses in servitude to the churches/temples/mosques. What happens when the Vatican is exposed for the house of lies that it is, along with all of the great religions.

For these reasons full outright disclosure can’t happen until the world has faced such an upheaval in its way of existence that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Perhaps this is what is coming up with the 2012 scenarios. Who knows if the ETs are going to be our saviors or are they going to be coming to let us know that they plan to take over now. This was the theme of the whole UFO conference” ARE ETS FRIENDS or FOES.

Either way having our governments come out and tell us they are here serves no real purpose. If they tell us the truth all chaos breaks out, and what are they suppose to say when they are asked how we are being protected from them. What can they say? We are pretty much powerless to do anything about them. They are technologically so much more advance there is nothing we can do. So lets just talk about the panic that ensues in the populations with that announcement.

For those that truly know the truth no disclosure is necessary. However, there are many, many people just like the saying goes, that cannot handle the truth.

[wynderer]

hi Amysenthia -- i don't think that Earth Humans would freak out if a high gov't official announced that ETs are real -- as D W Griffith said, 'Never underestimate the intelligence of the common man'

i recently watched one of the late Karla Turner's talks on youtube -- she said that every abductee she knew had dreamed 'The Night of the Ships' dream -- i had just dreamed this dream for the 3rd time in my life [that i can remember] a few weeks before listening to Karla's talk

it is not a fun dream -- i wake up at night & go either to the window or outside -- the sky above is filled w/lethal & hostile-looking ships -- a strong sense of menace & doom emanates from them

i am hoping that these dreams are just part of some mind control psy-op, & not precognition


Hi Viking,

I just returned this weekend from the MUFON national conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. This discussion was the topic of many of the groups that gathered after each lecture to discuss the last presentation. Some of the die hard UFO hunters that were there wanted a more IN YOUR FACE type of disclosure. One person even said that they wanted to see flying saucers land on the White House front yard. Most others in the group feel that disclosure has been going on for some time. It has just been happening more subtlety. If you look at the vast amounts of movies, television series like Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Chasers, etc., (don’t even start me on the children’s programming). Then consider there is an entire network the SYFY channel that covers all things science fiction. How can you not say that disclosure has not been going on for decades now.

If anyone wants to know the truth about UFOs there is plenty of ways to find it. If the government truly did not want you to know about ETs do you really think they would not be doing more to stop internet access to sites about the subject. Or doing more to debunk people who come out to talk about their experiences.

Personally I see disclosure as a double edged sword. As stated by others in this thread the ramifications of the existence of ETs would disrupt much of our way of existence while it propelled us into a greater use of technologies. Look at the jobs lost by those that work in the energy areas of coal, gas, electric, nuclear, and hydro-generated power. Not to mention the industries that make the products to support these areas, such as cars, buses, trains, planes, and all of the parts manufacturers. Then let us suppose that they are going to bring advanced medicine/healing practices. There goes the hospitals & workers. Doctors, nurses, aides, food service workers,janitors, drug stores, etc. The list goes on and on of the people that would now have no livelihoods.

Then don’t even start to discuss the upheavals in religious beliefs. What happens when they explain to everyone that religion is a man made mechanism to keep the masses in servitude to the churches/temples/mosques. What happens when the Vatican is exposed for the house of lies that it is, along with all of the great religions.

For these reasons full outright disclosure can’t happen until the world has faced such an upheaval in its way of existence that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Perhaps this is what is coming up with the 2012 scenarios. Who knows if the ETs are going to be our saviors or are they going to be coming to let us know that they plan to take over now. This was the theme of the whole UFO conference” ARE ETS FRIENDS or FOES.

Either way having our governments come out and tell us they are here serves no real purpose. If they tell us the truth all chaos breaks out, and what are they suppose to say when they are asked how we are being protected from them. What can they say? We are pretty much powerless to do anything about them. They are technologically so much more advance there is nothing we can do. So lets just talk about the panic that ensues in the populations with that announcement.

For those that truly know the truth no disclosure is necessary. However, there are many, many people just like the saying goes, that cannot handle the truth.

[CdnSirian]

I've heard Bashar (:warning2::tape2::alien:) answer the question "why don't you come down and meet us face to face?" twice.
1. Because you'd shoot us.
2. While the inmates are running the asylum?:eek:

Stephen Greer said almost 20 years ago that the fossil fuel industries will collapse and also that the most populous countries will be the most powerful. After all, they are only "kept down" by denial of energy.

In the past twenty years, however these countries have changed a great deal. During a transition of energy production, if people are fed and sheltered while things get re-organized, hopefully there won't be too much crazy stuff. That will head off the weaning away from money.

Wow. A civilization based on cooperation instead of competition? The hours worked in everyone's day of equal value? Why not? Lots of ego bending.

Leadership issues will be tricky. More ego bending.

Yet any move forward is a true advantage, ultimately.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Feedback in bold typo...


Hi Viking,

I just returned this weekend from the MUFON national conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. This discussion was the topic of many of the groups that gathered after each lecture to discuss the last presentation. Some of the die hard UFO hunters that were there wanted a more IN YOUR FACE type of disclosure. One person even said that they wanted to see flying saucers land on the White House front yard. Most others in the group feel that disclosure has been going on for some time. It has just been happening more subtlety. If you look at the vast amounts of movies, television series like Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Chasers, etc., (don’t even start me on the children’s programming). Then consider there is an entire network the SYFY channel that covers all things science fiction. How can you not say that disclosure has not been going on for decades now.

Yes I agree, but this is all too common with us folk here, but the masses have not got a clue...they are still ignorant of this fact...it has to a certain extent been ongoing, I agree...but this needs to be dealt with globally

If anyone wants to know the truth about UFOs there is plenty of ways to find it. If the government truly did not want you to know about ETs do you really think they would not be doing more to stop internet access to sites about the subject. Or doing more to debunk people who come out to talk about their experiences.

The governmant have to tried to no avail to stop internet access and the type of information that we are offered...in fact one of the Rockerfella's had suggested they need some kind of moderation/policing on this...he failed

Personally I see disclosure as a double edged sword. As stated by others in this thread the ramifications of the existence of ETs would disrupt much of our way of existence while it propelled us into a greater use of technologies. Look at the jobs lost by those that work in the energy areas of coal, gas, electric, nuclear, and hydro-generated power. Not to mention the industries that make the products to support these areas, such as cars, buses, trains, planes, and all of the parts manufacturers. Then let us suppose that they are going to bring advanced medicine/healing practices. There goes the hospitals & workers. Doctors, nurses, aides, food service workers,janitors, drug stores, etc. The list goes on and on of the people that would now have no livelihoods.

We would initially lose jobs but in time the lost jobs would also be replaced by other types of industry led technology....also with easier and cheaper living we would not have to work so hard...I won't even mention child slave labour which in some countries if rife!! It would be great if we didn't need hospital workers!! The list could go on....

Then don’t even start to discuss the upheavals in religious beliefs. What happens when they explain to everyone that religion is a man made mechanism to keep the masses in servitude to the churches/temples/mosques. What happens when the Vatican is exposed for the house of lies that it is, along with all of the great religions.

As I said before all religions are manufactured to keep us in check...F~~k the vatican...sorry to sound so blunt, but my research tells me we can do without the vatican/churches/temples ect ...

For these reasons full outright disclosure can’t happen until the world has faced such an upheaval in its way of existence that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Perhaps this is what is coming up with the 2012 scenarios. Who knows if the ETs are going to be our saviors or are they going to be coming to let us know that they plan to take over now. This was the theme of the whole UFO conference” ARE ETS FRIENDS or FOES.

IMO the ETs are friends...we would have been toast a few eons ago, if they wanted to...they have all the resouces they need up there...

Either way having our governments come out and tell us they are here serves no real purpose. If they tell us the truth all chaos breaks out, and what are they suppose to say when they are asked how we are being protected from them. What can they say? We are pretty much powerless to do anything about them. They are technologically so much more advance there is nothing we can do. So lets just talk about the panic that ensues in the populations with that announcement.

IMO we won't need protection from them...it is a different playing field once you are invited within the cosmic family....'guns and wars no more'

For those that truly know the truth no disclosure is necessary. However, there are many, many people just like the saying goes, that cannot handle the truth.

Amysenthia I really appreciate your feedback...thanks

~~~~~~~~

@Wynderer...thanks

Remember 'fors and againsts'

viking

[crosby]

hi viking. i see one of the biggest disadvantages as communication. i have read stories that perhaps they communicate via telepathy, but what are the actual numbers of humanity that can pick up their telepathic symbols? and what about biological factors being a risk? i believe that we humans are full of diseases that they may not be able to combat, or even vice-versa.
regards, corson

[wynderer]

Hi Viking -- what are 'fors & againsts' -- ?

[Amysenthia]

Feedback in bold typo...


Hi Viking,

I just returned this weekend from the MUFON national conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. This discussion was the topic of many of the groups that gathered after each lecture to discuss the last presentation. Some of the die hard UFO hunters that were there wanted a more IN YOUR FACE type of disclosure. One person even said that they wanted to see flying saucers land on the White House front yard. Most others in the group feel that disclosure has been going on for some time. It has just been happening more subtlety. If you look at the vast amounts of movies, television series like Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Chasers, etc., (don’t even start me on the children’s programming). Then consider there is an entire network the SYFY channel that covers all things science fiction. How can you not say that disclosure has not been going on for decades now.

Yes I agree, but this is all too common with us folk here, but the masses have not got a clue...they are still ignorant of this fact...it has to a certain extent been ongoing, I agree...but this needs to be dealt with globally It is being dealt with globally, just in a measured way.

If anyone wants to know the truth about UFOs there is plenty of ways to find it. If the government truly did not want you to know about ETs do you really think they would not be doing more to stop internet access to sites about the subject. Or doing more to debunk people who come out to talk about their experiences.

The governmant have to tried to no avail to stop internet access and the type of information that we are offered...in fact one of the Rockerfella's had suggested they need some kind of moderation/policing on this...he failed

I don't believe they really have tried too hard. When DHS wants a website shut down, it gets shut down. Look at what the FDA has been doing with Raw Milk proponents. They don't want raw milk to be sold and people are getting arrested.

Personally I see disclosure as a double edged sword. As stated by others in this thread the ramifications of the existence of ETs would disrupt much of our way of existence while it propelled us into a greater use of technologies. Look at the jobs lost by those that work in the energy areas of coal, gas, electric, nuclear, and hydro-generated power. Not to mention the industries that make the products to support these areas, such as cars, buses, trains, planes, and all of the parts manufacturers. Then let us suppose that they are going to bring advanced medicine/healing practices. There goes the hospitals & workers. Doctors, nurses, aides, food service workers,janitors, drug stores, etc. The list goes on and on of the people that would now have no livelihoods.

We would initially lose jobs but in time the lost jobs would also be replaced by other types of industry led technology....also with easier and cheaper living we would not have to work so hard...I won't even mention child slave labour which in some countries if rife!! It would be great if we didn't need hospital workers!! The list could go on.... Yes but the initial upheaval would be catastrophic. Where would people get the money to buy food, etc. while these new jobs are being created. Sorry but WT???: Are you truly considering the initial ramifications and not just being blinded by the, "OH how great it will be scenario". Don't get me wrong I look forward to a time when we can live side by side with an advanced race presence. I just think it has to be done very carefully.

Then don’t even start to discuss the upheavals in religious beliefs. What happens when they explain to everyone that religion is a man made mechanism to keep the masses in servitude to the churches/temples/mosques. What happens when the Vatican is exposed for the house of lies that it is, along with all of the great religions.

As I said before all religions are manufactured to keep us in check...F~~k the vatican...sorry to sound so blunt, but my research tells me we can do without the vatican/churches/temples ect ...
Are you not thinking about the people whose whole existence is based on their religion. Think what this will do to them psychologically.

For these reasons full outright disclosure can’t happen until the world has faced such an upheaval in its way of existence that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Perhaps this is what is coming up with the 2012 scenarios. Who knows if the ETs are going to be our saviors or are they going to be coming to let us know that they plan to take over now. This was the theme of the whole UFO conference” ARE ETS FRIENDS or FOES.

IMO the ETs are friends...we would have been toast a few eons ago, if they wanted to...they have all the resouces they need up there...

Either way having our governments come out and tell us they are here serves no real purpose. If they tell us the truth all chaos breaks out, and what are they suppose to say when they are asked how we are being protected from them. What can they say? We are pretty much powerless to do anything about them. They are technologically so much more advance there is nothing we can do. So lets just talk about the panic that ensues in the populations with that announcement.

IMO we won't need protection from them...it is a different playing field once you are invited within the cosmic family....'guns and wars no more'

For those that truly know the truth no disclosure is necessary. However, there are many, many people just like the saying goes, that cannot handle the truth.

Amysenthia I really appreciate your feedback...thanks

~~~~~~~~

@Wynderer...thanks

Remember 'fors and againsts'

viking

Although I feel we probably agree more than we disagree, I just feel that the disclosure has been going on, (perhaps a little to slowly), and that all out govt disclosure would be disastrous for many reasons. That is why I believe that it is not going to happen until it is forced upon us.

Also, to believe that all ETs are our friends is a big mistake. The PTBs are backed by malevolent ETs and the martial law threats and all the other global power struggles are directly related to their desire for world dominance through the misguided humans that they have promised protection to.

There are however, those ETs on our side that do not wish to see the plans of the PTB take shape. They are hoping that we humans will take control of our world before it is to late. If we do not I feel that the scenario will become one that is right out of the pages of the dead sea scrolls. "and the sons of light made war against the sons of darkness, etc.".

[Rollo]

Advantages:

Exchange of experience, ideas, goods, technology, knowledge, wisdom, possible cooperation, of course we could satisfy our natural curiosity in this subject. We could try out new kitchen(some of you would be more than happy to do it), learn about diffrent form of life, culture, fall in love(who knows)... I see it like a journey to a distant country or place on Earth where we have to do the efforts, show and give of ourselfs enough to be accepted and understood. ETs/EDs/Time Travelers have to do the efforts. Please don't forget that we are very powerfull, loving beings, capable of doing really good and evil things if we choose to. We should look at any visitors from this point of view. Not as vulnerable, stupid slaves how the PTW want us to be.

Disadventages:
Contact with ETs/EDs/Time Travelers could destroy the Earth's law and order in our matrix. How? By displaying technology, ideas and culture that is far beyond our imagination. Something so different that could make us feeling like being on a bad trip that stays for hours or a lifetime. If we are not ready to see and understand it. I was thinking as well about lack of understanding of the thought processes or behaviours which can be a major factor leading to receive them as malicious intent.

Millions of people who belive strongly in one of many religions couldn't withstand the shock of knowing such an obvious thing for us as extraterrestrial life. Or people who can't imagine life without money, power, control or popularity, which might prove irrelevant in the new world. Someone would have to help these people regain mental balance.

All in all we can only speculate.

Much love,
Rollo

[K626]

Thanks Fred and all ... but I was looking more into the Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure...but much appreciated for your responses

Thanks K626...can you point me to a link about 'Evidence of super advanced culture carries huge dangers for the host culture'...I am very interested...I suppose we are slowly getting increments of disclosure one way or another...

Not sure about industries collapsing, some are as we speak...yes I have wondered about all the jobs lost, but would not more jobs be created with other introduction of technologies...yes I can understand a question of identities, but are not our identities manufactured??....also not sure if this would demoralize or raise up to a higher vibration...I also think religions need to come together as one anyway...well anyway some more thoughts...thanks again K626

@purple...I'll have a peep...

viking

Think it boils down to evolutionary diversity.

When a very advanced culture colonises a more 'primitive' one, as has happened on our very planet, as when Europeans appeared in Africa or the Amazon or South America those cultures were radically altered.

It is likely that ET has mastered time travel and has seen our future would we want to know?
Would we want to mimic them and their behaviour?
What if they had ALL THE ANSWERS? Where would that leave us?

You see all these things could be massively demoralising and rid us of our will to develop IN OUR OWN WAY. After all why bother if we suddenly had acess to tech a 1,000 or a million years in advance of our own.

You see there are many worrying implications.


love

K

[Prodigal Son]

is Mr Greer still of the opinion that 'all ETs are benevolent' -- ?

many abductees have seen Greys , Reptilians, etc working w/Humans in uniforms & suits -- an unholy alliance



I think maybe this will clarify Greer's position on this.... from this interview with Kerry Cassidy...

http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/steven_greer_interview_transcript_en.html


I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in facilities in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places where they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian species that people think are ETs.

And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re working alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re absolutely what are called nano-bio-machines and they are Programmed Life Forms. There is no question that that is going on.

So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to you with just an empirical observation, what is it they’re seeing?

Now I’m going to cross over into something even more controversial.

We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I can’t say where it is but it’s in the South in an underground facility, and its chief scientist is someone I knew very well.

They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can put someone into a state, and they can go into – and this gets into a cosmological, complex discussion now – a lower astral, or denser astral field. And some would call this demonic.

They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring them in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through these electronics.

So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing to do with interstellar and extraterrestrial.

So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar civilizations that also have transdimensional capability... You can’t go through interstellar space at the speed of light or less.

KC: Right.

SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening within ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because people are conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs, that are Programmed Life Forms, man-made.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Thanks again K6 ... feedback in bold ...



Thanks Fred and all ... but I was looking more into the Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure...but much appreciated for your responses

Thanks K626...can you point me to a link about 'Evidence of super advanced culture carries huge dangers for the host culture'...I am very interested...I suppose we are slowly getting increments of disclosure one way or another...

Not sure about industries collapsing, some are as we speak...yes I have wondered about all the jobs lost, but would not more jobs be created with other introduction of technologies...yes I can understand a question of identities, but are not our identities manufactured??....also not sure if this would demoralize or raise up to a higher vibration...I also think religions need to come together as one anyway...well anyway some more thoughts...thanks again K626

@purple...I'll have a peep...

viking

Think it boils down to evolutionary diversity.

When a very advanced culture colonises a more 'primitive' one, as has happened on our very planet, as when Europeans appeared in Africa or the Amazon or South America those cultures were radically altered.

I don't know K6 ... would we not adopt a different mindset and get on with, so to speak...I don't mind if we are all 'radically altered' as you say...as long as it is for the best of mankind...would not our lives and responsibilties expand ?



It is likely that ET has mastered time travel and has seen our future would we want to know? why not ... ?
Would we want to mimic them and their behaviour? again why not...
What if they had ALL THE ANSWERS? Where would that leave us? I really don't think that ET up there have all the answers...(bet they have the answers to our problems though ;-) ) I think its ongoing...

You see all these things could be massively demoralising and rid us of our will to develop IN OUR OWN WAY. After all why bother if we suddenly had acess to tech a 1,000 or a million years in advance of our own. Well like I said before we would have more time for relaxation/leisure time and learning...the way it is now and if it stays that way, we will be shackled for years to come...the ptb will want to enslaven us as long as they can...suppresion of technologies/knowledge/spiritual awareness ect...we will all be like robotic slaves working as slaves with very little time do much else...

You see there are many worrying implications.

I think the implications are worrying if we stay on this timeline and the powers still in control...New World Order!...yikes

love

K

[wynderer]

from my personal experience -- some Greys, yes, are what Greer calls PLFs -- but the Reptilian i met was very much an individual, & not bioengineered --

it seems detrimental to the Earth Human sense of self worth to believe that it is only Humans who are doing the mind control/abduction stuff

our controllers want you to believe that Humans are an inferior life form -- you are not -- you are awesome





is Mr Greer still of the opinion that 'all ETs are benevolent' -- ?

many abductees have seen Greys , Reptilians, etc working w/Humans in uniforms & suits -- an unholy alliance



I think maybe this will clarify Greer's position on this.... from this interview with Kerry Cassidy...

http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/steven_greer_interview_transcript_en.html


I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in facilities in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places where they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian species that people think are ETs.

And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re working alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re absolutely what are called nano-bio-machines and they are Programmed Life Forms. There is no question that that is going on.

So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to you with just an empirical observation, what is it they’re seeing?

Now I’m going to cross over into something even more controversial.

We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I can’t say where it is but it’s in the South in an underground facility, and its chief scientist is someone I knew very well.

They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can put someone into a state, and they can go into – and this gets into a cosmological, complex discussion now – a lower astral, or denser astral field. And some would call this demonic.

They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring them in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through these electronics.

So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing to do with interstellar and extraterrestrial.

So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar civilizations that also have transdimensional capability... You can’t go through interstellar space at the speed of light or less.

KC: Right.

SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening within ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because people are conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs, that are Programmed Life Forms, man-made.

[Peace of Mind]

I’m not sure of the ramifications….as I don’t know what we will be dealing with. I suppose if we knew the intentions of said visitors we could better assess the situation. If they are benevolent I suspect this would be displayed to everyone before their actual arrival. For such an advance race to travel here they should have thoroughly researched this place and easily come up with a way to disclose their presence. I doubt I’ll be able to trust any E.T. sneaking around our planet, much less being presented to the masses by the very governments we don’t trust. The E.T.’s should be smarter than that, why use the untrustworthy to be our ambassadors? If I don’t see immediate signs of respect and acknowledgement to human sovereignty…my intuition will be seeking out and exposing their true agenda.

Peace

[Carmody]

Evidence shows that interaction with a super advanced culture carries huge dangers for the host culture.

The best way is to introduce is in tiny incriments so as not to destroy the identity and hopes and initiative of the less advanced society. Sudden access to limitless energy although seemingly ideal carries with it many issues: the breakdown of most of the host cultures way of doing business and industry (laying waste to power production)..Think of all the jobs gone in the blink of an eye. The danger of misuse as a weapons systems, uncheked growth etc...

Who we are is in a lot of ways defined by how we grow and develop, our struggle to overcome (our unique footprint). Wiping all of that out in one swoop by the introdction of systems and tech that makes us look and feel ridiculous would I imagine be very demoralising...Societies drive might break down...Whole cultures would go into an identity crisis. There is also the religious aspect...All swept away in an instant. This stuff might prove very destructive psychologically for mankind.

The advanced culture is well aware of the risks and probably is very reluctant to intervene unless it really has to.............

Just my initial thoughts...

love

K

Our biggest development problem regarding technologies and the rest of it is is entrenched power systems whom the operators of are DEFINITELY less evolved than those desiring illumination and freedom.

This less evolved aspect is due to the ego and DNA centric characteristics of those who are drawn to power situations..having eventually become the runners and owners of such areas of human society and culture.

with a bit of in depth analysis, it becomes clear that this is the main sticking point in the block on overall human elevation, at this time.

To concentrate effort, one must know what to concentrate it on and what situation needs be resolved.

Sociopaths are designed, via wiring/DNA, breeding, etc.. and from the ground up in learning..to HIDE THEMSELVES in society, in order to protect themselves from discovery.

This problem arises in that people project what they are onto and into the world and they also think that all others think as they do and how they see the world and act within it.

This allows sociopaths to HIDE if the sociopath is diligent and aware. They, as parasites, have become VERY successful.

Secret societies, governments, war machines, corporations, wall street, finances...and so on.

Nowadays..due to this effective infiltration of what was a more functional society..they have become prominent,and the others are becoming aware of this separation.

And as has been done in smaller groupings (countries around the globe, at times), they attack society, in order to protect themselves from the society that they have become too prominent within.

For a host does indeed.... finally recognize that they have too many parasites trying to feed off of them, which gives rise to the parasite finally attacking the host.

This is a millennia (thousands of years) long run of a parasite moving from host to host, in parasite groupings and in isolation, all over this globe, from place to place and country to country.

They use slash and burn tactics, once they are discovered, in most cases.

The other trick is to kill the host off so well, that there can be NO LIVING MEMORY in the given place/country/city/continent, of what was done to the given host systems or groups.

If you look at it this way, you find that the support structures are the points that need be addressed, and that other works/attempts will likely fail.

This, as the warning from previous societies and cultures show that this "slow march of the hidden parasite' is never revealed to and within the awareness of the given connected public.... until the job is done or near done.

The borderline sociopaths are the ones who enable this situation. selfishness driven to extremes, due to paranoid fears of death... and desires for self aggrandizement -and pleasures. hive mind mentality us vs them, the core origins of enlistment and enrollment in secret societies. They, in many ways, have our dumbest and most vicious, self centered, and so on, as their low level foot soldiers - who keep the rest of us in check.

That's the basics, and that is the part that is important to know.

Frame and open the question correctly, so that the methods and directions can be seen, in a way that creates a pathway to a workable answer.

The stumbling block has ALWAYS been the awareness of the public, and the low empathy types gathering together to help on another, as it is their nature to get into positions where low empathy, as a grouping of people... can and does work for them.

Root out the insanity and misdirection on and in your own local and global societies (emphasis on local work and local recognition). We prefer and desire to deal with issues that are 'far away' as it is safer. Too bad that this will lead nowhere.

Risk yourself, but risk yourself in a state of knowledge, one that is directed and thus an effective risk taking.

Until the individual does these things, nothing will happen -it will only get worse.

Oh yes, the break point for the establishment of these conditions, with regard to complexities and actions, begins at about the population mark of about 10,000 people as an isolated group, or city state.

Below that, in human gathering and societal interaction terms(less than about 10,000 people)...there is too much familiarity of one another for such hidden systems to arise into prominence. (below that amount it is more open a situation... due to individual members of the public's connections and familiarity with others of the group, and it is thus more difficult to get into extremes)

[Alien Ramone]

I have become ambivalent on the topic. Disclosure is something that I think we should have, since we should be told what is going on, but it is not necessarily any type of solution. We wouldn't know if the information in the disclosure was true. With the governments we have now, if there was disclosure by them, it would probably be for the purposes of manipulation. Disclosure by alien groups could very possibly be done in their own interests, not ours. Disclosure whether truthful on all the information or not would most likely signal an acceleration toward some outcome, which might not necessarily be good for us.

[Lifebringer]

There's two sides to that scenerio also. Some who have seen and were afraid to tell their family members for being labled unstable, will finally be vindicated of their sanity and the gut instincts that have been coming on strong since 2007 in July. You know with all that the "pssst cabal" has done and are capable of doing under our noses, and our inability to stop it sooner than later through vote, I welcome anyone from the higher peaceful relms to put an end to this nightmare enslavement of the planet, where the struggle to survive, never pays off for some, but is dripping in prosperity, just by being in the family name and owning all the parents own that keeps the masses struggling.

How can the younger heirs live in the greedy oppressive shoes of their parents? I don't think this group of youngsters waiting for justice will. I think they will use what God gave them in their hearts and minds, to do things for the better. The LOVE Generation is alive and still kicking, and WE have OUR time in history also to make changes.

THIS IS IT!!

[sirdipswitch]

I personally know many people, that would have a nervous break down, if ET ships were to start landing in mass.

Perhaps this is the sole reason, that the US, seems to be gearing up for Martial Law.

At 11:00pm, Dec 21, 2012, the space ships will land, and America, will wake up to a brand New Day. chuckle chuckle chuckle.

[Carmody]

The most alarming thing of all, is that we, of this forum, as a grouped type in society... would be the least harmed by any form of 'complete' ET disclosure..... yet few-to-none of us can agree on the basics.

That is how wrapped up in ourselves we really are - To our own detriment, and that of all the others out there.

You folks talk a good talk, but I see so very few walking the walk.

[Amysenthia]

You folks talk a good talk, but I see so very few walking the walk.

Really Carmody,


WHAT? The purpose of this thread that Viking started is to discuss disclosure vs non-disclosure. Many good ideas have been presented here for and against. This is a debate not a call to action.

What walk are you hoping to see?

[truth4me]

As wynderer said the "sky full of ships" dream is one I had when I was about 8 or 9. Advantages would be technology and the spiritual wisdom that we would get. Disadvantages would be choas. It would be just flat out crazy. People would be dying of heart attacks and such.Then the questions threw at the governments and all the lies that have been told by each government to their people.....well, your talking a serious can of BIG HUGH worms my friend. I think it would take a world event like a pole shift and they would appear to help those who wanted it. I think YOU know what I mean viking! Then again as Aymsenthia said "many cannot handle the truth" My sister I could see totally and I mean totally freak out.......

[Carmody]

You folks talk a good talk, but I see so very few walking the walk.

Really Carmody,


WHAT? The purpose of this thread that Viking started is to discuss disclosure vs non-disclosure. Many good ideas have been presented here for and against. This is a debate not a call to action.

What walk are you hoping to see?

I've been at this for a very long time.... and I am so very tired.

One thing that is seen so often, is the lack of congruity in the various statements, ideas, opinions, etc. Not any form of consensus in understanding.

page one, chapter one, on any book titled 'effective works', involves everyone understanding the problem and moving forward from there.

I recognized the near impossibility of this, when I was 13. That's how long I've been at this, and on this subject. In THIS life ---never mind others.

Thinking that is all over the map stemming from the mental picture in the human mind of being 'right and correct' at any given moment of understanding, instead of realizing that it is a never ending process of unfolding, and to begin addressing the question and answers from that point of knowing.

[SKAWF]

i see a potential vulnerability.

disclosure would be a 'new' thing for everyone.
at first i could imagine a global insecurity as everyone gets used to the idea,
actually, maybe insecurity is the wrong way of putting it.

it would radically change the perspective of nearly everyone on the planet.
and initially, people would be very unsure.

its at that time we would be vulnerable.
i reckon people would accept almost anything,
that would enable them to get a get some kind of grip
on what might be a state of personal confusion.

[WhiteFeather]

The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology and nature will be able to coexist in a long term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.

Jobs and money would become obsolete. Everything would be available to us for free, even freedom. And Then Planet Earth could start her healing process perhaps. Wouldnt this be Bliss. : )

www.thevenusproject.com

This is the answer IMO. And Jacques Fresco has some wonderful ideas for Mother Earth.

I believe it could become a reality as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THo1DEYioac

[heysoulsister]

As wynderer said the "sky full of ships" dream is one I had when I was about 8 or 9.
Advantages would be technology and the spiritual wisdom that we would get. Disadvantages would be choas. It would be just flat out crazy. People would be dying of heart attacks and such.Then the questions threw at the governments and all the lies that have been told by each government to their people.....well, your talking a serious can of BIG HUGH worms my friend. I think it would take a world event like a pole shift and they would appear to help those who wanted it. I think YOU know what I mean viking! Then again as Aymsenthia said "many cannot handle the truth" My sister I could see totally and I mean totally freak out.......

LOL there is a news blurb on the idiot box (TV) right now about the "real" Roswell incident ;)
Agreed some people would just keel over at the sight of some big ole UFO's passing by.
and I was going to ask if this were to take place before mother Earth breaks down and can't take anymore and the SHTF or during or after?

Really there will never be an "ideal" time.
But what's the right answer here for humanity and this plant at this point in time :noidea:
Lets everyone be honest, we are a mess (collectively) and this beautiful planet that we live on has surely had enough of our treatment of it and our behaviour.

With all the Olympics speculation going on it got me to thinking, that for sure if the powers that be got wind of our space brothers coming in they would without hesitation bring out their "UFO's" and start blowing up innocent people willy nilly so that they have even more distrust.

I reckon some global full disclosure of the lies the untruths to the everyday common people would do the trick. Maybe TV/Movie screen style so people can see it and understand it for themselves.
Heck even for people like us that research and read about the things that we do, even we don't have the real full picture (I suspect we are very close though) i.e - illuminati, the truth behind all these religions etc, oil and energy problems, wars, global elitist, the dumbing down of society, the poisoning, and on and on and on it goes :ballchain:

If there are real "aliens" space brothers whatever the heck out there and they do want disclosure they need to understand that in many respects we (humans) are little more than animals that have been locked up and mentally and physically tortured and abused, and any intelligent being knows to approach a abused animal with caution.
There are going to be a whole lot of spiritual and emotional hurts to be healed I suspect

[Selene]

Thanks for opening this timely thread, Viking. And double thanks for your attempts to keep it on topic! (i.e. the “advantages and disadvantages” of formal disclosure.)

In my view, there is one overwhelming disadvantage to the proverbial “formal announcement from the White House” disclosure scenario:

If the world’s governments formally acknowledge the presence of ET’s, we’d inevitably discover they’ve actually been secretly working with them – and against the public interest – for many decades now. It’s not a new event. They’ve been hiding this for generations. This disclosure would cause a worldwide revolution of unprecedented fury against the existing cabal.

• It would expose “democracy” as a sham, and its pretense as a tool of control.
• It would make clear that the mass of humanity has been excluded from key decisions about its own future.
• It would expose the cynical abuse of humanity by humans and the collusion with negative ET’s that has been the deliberate basis of government policy for more than 60 years.

That’s the sh*t situation they’ve dug themselves into now. And they aren’t going to implode it on themselves.

We’ve endured paradigm shifts before in world history, but no previous scientific, economic or paradigmatic revolutions, no scientific discoveries or “earth revolves around the sun” insights could so completely implicate nor expose the lying manipulations of our so-called planetary leaders as the prospect that they have been secretly and persistently taking advantage of extraterrestrial contact and the technical and scientific knowledge that actually belongs to all of humanity while persistently denying that any of it is possible at all.

Nothing would make clearer that humanity has been screwed over by its own so-called leadership, screwed by other humans who have been traitors to their own kind, who have greedily kept all the goodies for themselves and eagerly sold the rest of us out so that they could become Absolute Rulers of this planet.

These so-called leaders are now the unwitting and obsequious minions to the “true” masters of our world – the greys, the reptilians, the nordics, and all the rest who find us “useful”. (I am not saying that all ET’s are of bad intent – there are surely some who have good intentions - but referring to the ones whom our governments have regrettably allied with.) We have been conquered by our own “traitorship”. (Is that a new term for “government”?)

And the “nice” [if so] ET’s are not stupid: they know perfectly well that any unilateral “mass uncloaking” to humanity would be interpreted by our [implicated] governments as a hostile act, an act of war against these governments and their allies: the greys, the reptiles, etc. And our governments would respond with massive force. There would be serious loss of life at some level. Not good.

So. In my view, it ain’t going to happen except in the manner it’s happening now: a slow drip-drip of brave souls speaking their truth, coming forward to tell their stories, facing ridicule and assassination, day after day, year after year. One YouTube vid after another.

There’s no advantage to the PTB to openly disclose. None.

I’d really, really like to be wrong here. Any comments, friends?

Cheers,

Selene

[Carmody]

I agree. When it comes to the average Joe, even one who will and would quite quickly gain a clear head..over time..as such a change rolled on......I'd have to say, as I have before..that there is no dimension, no time, no place that the elitists can go that is far enough away to escape the fury and whirlwind of humanity's overall desire to 'get even' for the losses incurred.

People have no idea how twisted and off course things are.

We are taking about the ground you walk on, the clothes, the body, the streets, the education, the family, the children, the mind, the design the wiring of the mind, the horrors, the wasted efforts, the intensity of misdirected energy, everything you think, feel, know, see and exist as..is ALL, I repeat ALL twisted far off course from where it should be.

And once the horror of knowing that someone and something purposely blunted you into this enforced retarded and violent life, once that comes to you as a reality of KNOWING, as it WILL....what will you think?

Your unending pain and fury will be as big as your life force itself.

Of that, there is no doubt.

And at that point it may drop to a smouldering, with flare ups of pain, loss and rage... but the effect will be complete.

There will be nothing that can or does exist.... that will deter you from making this thing move FORWARD. Today, now, tomorrow.....and for every further moment that you exist, alive, on this planet and in this life.

And that is what some of you fear. You still want to play in the park and have fun. (you need more proof!..before you upset your own imagined applecart)

Too bad.... that time is past. You want to retain some semblance of your old comforts, but they don't exist - and haven't, for quite some time.

You fear the knowing of the truth of what has been done to remove your potential and to remove your future from you.

Which is why they are trying to find a way to kill you, before your figure it out. The host is awakening, so the parasites will try and kill it first, before that awakening happens.

[sandy]

Great Thread Viking!!

I agree with you Selene :)

Until the masses are more awake and can come together cooperatively to support a benevolent ET race disclosing itself and technologies to help "Mother Earth" and her clan, there will be no disclosure for the good of all IMHO. What good would contact be if in the end it created greater division and more annihilation of our planet and her people??

I believe there is a dripping process going on for a reason as change needs to happen in ways that people can accept and then work toward making happen. It has to be change that overall our civilization wants and not put upon us in ways we haven't chosen or once again we will be managed by some type of power structure and remain enslaved.

Thank you for the Venus Project Video WhiteFeather Although they teamed up with Zeitgeist for a while they are no longer affiliated and again the Venus Project is on it's own to try and get people to see their dream for our civilization and planet.

Jacques is in his nineties and has been at this since a young man and is a genius to say the least. He is very rational about his ideas and his opinions and sometimes seems fascist, or maybe believes in eugenics in his presentations but I don't think he is or is part of the NWO crew either. He is just very matter of fact and puts up with no guff :) I highly respect him!!

Anyway I'm all for disclosure when the masses have truly come together to shut the door on TPTB and in all honesty, I can't think of a disadvantage to this outcome but I sure could fill a book with all the Advantages beginning with Free Energy.

Most of all my eyes all filled with tears right now and my heart is filled with joy, feeling and envisioning LOVE eliminating everywhere upon this reality in our world one day>>>>>>>and the sooner the better.

So keep up the good work everyone in trying to get others to look a little deeper, internally and externally to start the process of changing their personal scarcity paradigm to one of abundance and love throughout our world.

[Ontarioguy]

Great thread Viking! Thanks for creating it. Love all the different comments and then I got to thinking.... after disclosure...I mean no nonsense absolute real disclosure, I ask "will Avalon still remain as busy" ? or perhaps maybe busier? I mean after disclosure, there are no more date predictions right? haha. I almost think Avalon will become even busier to be honest.
But staying on Vikings topic, I could mention pros & cons...but many of the previous comments have covered my thoughts. All in all, I think the pros would outweigh the cons.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Hi Viking -- what are 'fors & againsts' -- ?

'Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure'

viking

[Eric J (Viking)]

. I think it would take a world event like a pole shift and they would appear to help those who wanted it. I think YOU know what I mean viking! Then again as Aymsenthia said "many cannot handle the truth" My sister I could see totally and I mean totally freak out.......

Thanks Truth...just a thought my friend, would you board the ships?? bearing in mind that you might just have 15 minutes ish to make up your mind...1st wave would be preferable... ;-)(sorry to put you on the spot)

Anyway...yep the main thing is the ptw/governments have too much to lose...! this is the real problem, I'm afraid they should have come clean when ET first showed up and suggested a little help from them, but no, the ptw chose a different road to suit their greedy selfish needs...not thinking what was best for humanity but only for themselves...

Well I can see the disadvantages...most of which I am sure we would overcome in time...once over the shock of...and I agree what a few here have said that the advantages would most certainly outweigh the bad points...

At the end of the day it is transition we will be going through...I am sure we will all be in the right place at the right time...

Thanks again Carmody and Selene and all for responses...

viking

[jaybee]

In my view, there is one overwhelming disadvantage to the proverbial “formal announcement from the White House” disclosure scenario:

If the world’s governments formally acknowledge the presence of ET’s, we’d inevitably discover they’ve actually been secretly working with them – and against the public interest – for many decades now. It’s not a new event. They’ve been hiding this for generations. This disclosure would cause a worldwide revolution of unprecedented fury against the existing cabal.

• It would expose “democracy” as a sham, and its pretense as a tool of control.
• It would make clear that the mass of humanity has been excluded from key decisions about its own future.
• It would expose the cynical abuse of humanity by humans and the collusion with negative ET’s that has been the deliberate basis of government policy for more than 60 years.

That’s the sh*t situation they’ve dug themselves into now. And they aren’t going to implode it on themselves.


I agree....that we aren't going to get the kind of 'disclosure' that we would like because of political and legal reasons.....and because it is all tied up in National Defence and Security...

I think anything NEAR to Disclosure...would be a senario perhaps like this....


a new mission that reveals that a life bearing eco system existed in the past on another planet.....ie Mars.

I wonder if the new Curioity Mars Rover Mission will 'come up with the goods' in regards to this......?


Sorry to be boring...:).....I believe in ET and Other Dimensional Beings...but I just can't see there being any OFFICIAL disclosure more than this for the time being.

but I would love to be proved wrong....


.

[wynderer]

advantages/disadvantages for whom?



Hi Viking -- what are 'fors & againsts' -- ?

'Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure'

viking

[Eric J (Viking)]

advantages/disadvantages for whom?



Hi Viking -- what are 'fors & againsts' -- ?

'Advantages and disadvantages of ET disclosure'

viking

If our space brothers were to show themselves on a mass scale (woldwide) or disclosure by our governments (worldwide on all channel ect...highly unlikely! but you never know...)

If this happens in one way or another what would the advantages be for us, humanity...or if you wish disadvantages for humanity...

viking

[Eric J (Viking)]

In my view, there is one overwhelming disadvantage to the proverbial “formal announcement from the White House” disclosure scenario:

If the world’s governments formally acknowledge the presence of ET’s, we’d inevitably discover they’ve actually been secretly working with them – and against the public interest – for many decades now. It’s not a new event. They’ve been hiding this for generations. This disclosure would cause a worldwide revolution of unprecedented fury against the existing cabal.

• It would expose “democracy” as a sham, and its pretense as a tool of control.
• It would make clear that the mass of humanity has been excluded from key decisions about its own future.
• It would expose the cynical abuse of humanity by humans and the collusion with negative ET’s that has been the deliberate basis of government policy for more than 60 years.

That’s the sh*t situation they’ve dug themselves into now. And they aren’t going to implode it on themselves.


I agree....that we aren't going to get the kind of 'disclosure' that we would like because of political and legal reasons.....and because it is all tied up in National Defence and Security...

I think anything NEAR to Disclosure...would be a senario perhaps like this....


a new mission that reveals that a life bearing eco system existed in the past on another planet.....ie Mars.

I wonder if the new Curioity Mars Rover Mission will 'come up with the goods' in regards to this......?


Sorry to be boring...:).....I believe in ET and Other Dimensional Beings...but I just can't see there being any OFFICIAL disclosure more than this for the time being.

but I would love to be proved wrong....


.

Interesting to see what the Tibetan Monks think of this scenario ...

~~~~~~~~

Remote viewing is nothing new in Tibetan monasteries. For thousands of years remote viewing in the middle of other spiritual activities have dominated Tibetan culture. What some Indian tourists came to learn from a few Tibetan monasteries under the current Chinese rule is extremely alarming and fascinating.

Remote viewing is nothing new in Tibetan monasteries. For thousands of years remote viewing in the middle of other spiritual activities have dominated Tibetan culture. What some Indian tourists came to learn from a few Tibetan monasteries under the current Chinese rule is extremely alarming and fascinating.

According to these tourists remote viewers are seeing world powers in the course of self-destruction. They also see that the world will not be destroyed. Between now and 2012 the world super powers will continue to engage in regional wars. Terrorism and covert war will be the main problem. In world politics something will happen in and around 2010. At that time the world powers will threaten to destroy each other.
Between 2010 and 2012, the whole world will get polarized and prepare for the ultimate dooms day. Heavy political maneuvers and negotiations will take place with little progress.
In 2012, the world will start plunging into a total destructive nuclear war.

And at that time something remarkable will happen, says, Buddhist monk of Tibet. Supernatural divine powers will intervene. The destiny of the world is not to self-destruct at this time.
Scientific interpretation of the monks, statements makes it evident that the Extra Terrestrial powers are watching us every step of the way. They will intervene in 2012 and save the world from self-destruction.
When asked about recent UFO sightings in India and China, the monks smiled and said the divine powers are watching us all. Mankind cannot and will not be allowed to alter the future to that great extent.
Every human being though their current acts in life called "Karma can alter the future lives to some extent, but changing the destiny in that large extent will not be allowed to that great an extent.

Monks also mentioned that beyond 2012 our current civilization would understand that the final frontier of science and technology is in area of spirituality and not material physics and chemistry. Beyond 2012, out technologies will take a different direction. People will learn the essence of spirituality, the relation between body and the soul, the reincarnation and the fact we are connected with each other are all part of "God.

In India and China UFO sightings have increased in many folds. Many say the Chinese and Indian Governments are being contacted by the Extra Terrestrials.

In recent days most UFO activities have been seen in those countries who have indigenously developed Nuke capabilities.

When asked if these extra-terrestrials will show up in reality in 2012, the answers remote viewers are giving is: they will reveal themselves in such a way that none of us scared. They will reveal themselves only if they have to. As our science and technology progresses, we are destined to see them and interact with them any way.

According to the remote viewers, our earth is blessed and is being saved continuously from all kinds of hazards all the time that we are not even aware of. As our technologies progress we will realize how external forces saved us.

~~~~~~~~

viking

[Mutchie]

I think its very hard knowing what to truly believe .....Norman Bergrun found ufos which were over a thousand miles long in the rings of saturn we have documented pictures of these crafts so either saturn is populated or one of its moons holds intelligent life ... take our own moon its a total enigma and we all know there is lots of unanswered questions up there ...then we have John Lear who states FIRMLY that our OWN solar system is teaming with life , he says we have been fed nothing but lies and that mars has humans on it , he also says venus is nothing like we have been told ... now what i want to know is WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING ????:confused:

I believe there will be NO DISCLOSURE ..... the lie is SO BIG & its went on for so long ...introducing aliens could be the END of us

[Eric J (Viking)]

This one is a big problem here...and this one problem drives me nuts...how and when will the wars cease...??

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540253_419423951427130_1554456779_n.jpg

viking

[Mutchie]

This one is a big problem here...and this one problem drives me nuts...how and when will the wars cease...??

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/540253_419423951427130_1554456779_n.jpg

viking

Well said Viking .... we cannot even get along on our own little planet and here we are wanting to meet aliens ???

I want to believe that disclosure would unite us but we humans are so warlike ... technology ...greed ....fear ... envy ... any alien race who was going to make themselves known to us would do well
not to just make contact with any one country but all of mankind at the same time!!!:cool:

[VirgoSun79]

Hi Viking,

I just returned this weekend from the MUFON national conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. This discussion was the topic of many of the groups that gathered after each lecture to discuss the last presentation. Some of the die hard UFO hunters that were there wanted a more IN YOUR FACE type of disclosure. One person even said that they wanted to see flying saucers land on the White House front yard. Most others in the group feel that disclosure has been going on for some time. It has just been happening more subtlety. If you look at the vast amounts of movies, television series like Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Chasers, etc., (don’t even start me on the children’s programming). Then consider there is an entire network the SYFY channel that covers all things science fiction. How can you not say that disclosure has not been going on for decades now.

If anyone wants to know the truth about UFOs there is plenty of ways to find it. If the government truly did not want you to know about ETs do you really think they would not be doing more to stop internet access to sites about the subject. Or doing more to debunk people who come out to talk about their experiences.

Personally I see disclosure as a double edged sword. As stated by others in this thread the ramifications of the existence of ETs would disrupt much of our way of existence while it propelled us into a greater use of technologies. Look at the jobs lost by those that work in the energy areas of coal, gas, electric, nuclear, and hydro-generated power. Not to mention the industries that make the products to support these areas, such as cars, buses, trains, planes, and all of the parts manufacturers. Then let us suppose that they are going to bring advanced medicine/healing practices. There goes the hospitals & workers. Doctors, nurses, aides, food service workers,janitors, drug stores, etc. The list goes on and on of the people that would now have no livelihoods.

Then don’t even start to discuss the upheavals in religious beliefs. What happens when they explain to everyone that religion is a man made mechanism to keep the masses in servitude to the churches/temples/mosques. What happens when the Vatican is exposed for the house of lies that it is, along with all of the great religions.

For these reasons full outright disclosure can’t happen until the world has faced such an upheaval in its way of existence that it doesn’t really matter anyway. Perhaps this is what is coming up with the 2012 scenarios. Who knows if the ETs are going to be our saviors or are they going to be coming to let us know that they plan to take over now. This was the theme of the whole UFO conference” ARE ETS FRIENDS or FOES.

Either way having our governments come out and tell us they are here serves no real purpose. If they tell us the truth all chaos breaks out, and what are they suppose to say when they are asked how we are being protected from them. What can they say? We are pretty much powerless to do anything about them. They are technologically so much more advance there is nothing we can do. So lets just talk about the panic that ensues in the populations with that announcement.

For those that truly know the truth no disclosure is necessary. However, there are many, many people just like the saying goes, that cannot handle the truth.

As far as jobs are concerned with all of the listed jobs that will be lost, something else has to replace it otherwise why are we losing it. So with whatever those replacements are, they will require people to run those things, and if not then I think that would be good to. I don't think anybody is actually born with the 'want' to build cars or work in factorys for the rest of their lives. It seems like it opens the dooor of opportunity for everybody to have an even playing field on actually doing what everybody 'wants' to do. People can actually follow their passions. That seems like a beautiful world o me.

I do agree that if aliens show up and basically take a huge dumb all over what we know is peoples religion/faith/beliefs there will be some MAAAAAAAAAAAJOR problems. Wow, talk about making your entire life feel like a waste of time you've spent praying to someone who isn't there, or in church or thinking you're doing something to better yourself when you're not. That's ALOT of the average person in this day and time to take. I think that's going to be hardest thing to get over if any formal/confirmable/obvious/infront of everybody's eyes alien encounter happened.

And you raise another good topic about if they are friend or foe? That's a great question, I'm inclined to believe they are both; the foe's are obvious. But my question is why the hell hasn't team humanity the teachers of the past, the helpers the supportive specieis of aliens come back to help! That part I don't understand! The other side makes such a strong hold on our society, yet it doesn't seem like the other side is there at all. It's all so confusing.

[Carmody]

the after affect would be very much like that of the mess at the end of the given wars in Vietnam, Bosnia (Yugoslavia), Germany, France (wwII), Japan, and so on. massive disruption of the culture and society, and a rebuild along completely new lines.

and with the old paradigm of power and circles of power, completely changed, from the ground up.

This last part, is the component that the PTB are trying to avoid, and are spending all their efforts in preventing.

they are also trying to avoid the wrath of the population that WILL be forthcoming.

Neither situation can be avoided, so they work within the environment of something much like, say...the more desperate moves of the German government and their black programs, before the war ended.... and it was known by all involved......how it was going to end.

All programs and pogroms are moving forward, and some have little chance of success these days. But there was no doubt that they would be tried, to their utmost, and to their bitter ends.

For the final moment is an ending, regardless, so all long shots and all extremes MUST be played out.

It's all delaying tactics at this point in my estimation. Facades are all that remain in some cases, IMO. facades are important, it's the reasoning behind a cat having it's fur stand on end, or feathers fluffing on a bird, and so on. A ruse, a trick, a cover.(at least humans have surmised that).

for example, a CEO for a given oil company WILL find a way to defeat a given movement to shut down a pipeline or a drilling effort that could bring serious coin and serious advantage - simply as they will not tolerate failure on THEIR watch. Afterward, after they leave the company... they may not care one iota, anymore.

Humans in other worlds, like presidencies, heads of departments, heads of militiary and associated programs, heads of corporations that do black ops, and have hidden scientific advantage, owners and heads of banks and financial institutions ---are all the same. self centered to some degree, or whatever, but NONE of them will tolerate the cover story falling apart on THEIR watch.

People and things can 'go down' but it WON'T BE THEM, they will not allow it.

Which is why we have no change.

No one wants to be, nor will they tolerate being the swinging and hanging corpse on the end of the rope. They will fight that scenario, to the death.

And on the side of those who seek disclosure and pretend to be the ones who will do anything to make it there... almost to a given person, none of them want to be (and are NOT willing to be) the one person who gets hit by the shotgun and dies, when the 100 slaves/prisoners finally rush the one guard with the shotgun.

So much for human integrity, resolution, action, and clear thinking.

Which is why I've said, that I realized all this when I was 13, regarding situations and people who want change... I said:

If not YOU, then WHO?

If not NOW, then WHEN?

For example, in the idea of being around for their children....most people who have children... fail to understand that they are literally living within the act of failing the fight to keep their children alive.

[K626]

The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology and nature will be able to coexist in a long term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.

Jobs and money would become obsolete. Everything would be available to us for free, even freedom. And Then Planet Earth could start her healing process perhaps. Wouldnt this be Bliss. : )

www.thevenusproject.com

This is the answer IMO. And Jacques Fresco has some wonderful ideas for Mother Earth.

I believe it could become a reality as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THo1DEYioac

Not interested in a planned society thanks. :)

love

K

[Carmody]

the after affect would be very much like that of the mess at the end of the given wars in Vietnam, Bosnia (Yugoslavia), Germany, France (wwII), Japan, and so on. massive disruption of the culture and society, and a rebuild along completely new lines.

and with the old paradigm of power and circles of power, completely changed, from the ground up.

This last part, is the component that the PTB are trying to avoid, and are spending all their efforts in preventing.

they are also trying to avoid the wrath of the population that WILL be forthcoming.

Neither situation can be avoided, so they work within the environment of something much like, say...the more desperate moves of the German government and their black programs, before the war ended.... and it was known by all involved......how it was going to end.

All programs and pogroms are moving forward, and some have little chance of success these days. But there was no doubt that they would be tried, to their utmost, and to their bitter ends.

For the final moment is an ending, regardless, so all long shots and all extremes MUST be played out.

It's all delaying tactics at this point in my estimation. Facades are all that remain in some cases, IMO. facades are important, it's the reasoning behind a cat having it's fur stand on end, or feathers fluffing on a bird, and so on. A ruse, a trick, a cover.(at least humans have surmised that).

for example, a CEO for a given oil company WILL find a way to defeat a given movement to shut down a pipeline or a drilling effort that could bring serious coin and serious advantage - simply as they will not tolerate failure on THEIR watch. Afterward, after they leave the company... they may not care one iota, anymore.

Humans in other worlds, like presidencies, heads of departments, heads of militiary and associated programs, heads of corporations that do black ops, and have hidden scientific advantage, owners and heads of banks and financial institutions ---are all the same. self centered to some degree, or whatever, but NONE of them will tolerate the cover story falling apart on THEIR watch.

People and things can 'go down' but it WON'T BE THEM, they will not allow it.

Which is why we have no change.

No one wants to be, nor will they tolerate being the swinging and hanging corpse on the end of the rope. They will fight that scenario, to the death.

And on the side of those who seek disclosure and pretend to be the ones who will do anything to make it there... almost to a given person, none of them want to be (and are NOT willing to be) the one person who gets hit by the shotgun and dies, when the 100 slaves/prisoners finally rush the one guard with the shotgun.

So much for human integrity, resolution, action, and clear thinking.

Which is why I've said, that I realized all this when I was 13, regarding situations and people who want change... I said:

If not YOU, then WHO?

If not NOW, then WHEN?

For example, in the idea of being around for their children....most people who have children... fail to understand that they are literally living within the act of failing the fight to keep their children alive.

Now some of you might understand my earlier comment, about people "talking a nice talk" but ultimately failing, at the core level, to "walk the walk".

If you want the change, you are going to have to be it, you are going to have to be that change, that act, that moment.

No free rides..no matter how much you internally squirm, no matter how much the depths of your mind and ego try to steer you around this bit of truth, it is the only thing that remains to be overcome.

That point in the mind that puts the self at risk, in order to get it done. It still comes back to the same thing.

Do. Real. Things.

Get it done.

[K626]

Historically it's never been 'the people' though Carmody, it has always been a leading cadre or group of intelligensia backed at the right time or in the right place at the right time. Consent then has to be manufactured. This has been the case so far sadly.

love

K

[Eric J (Viking)]

Well I thought I would list some of the advantages imo ...

I personally think that disclosure would set humanity free from the shackles of suppression of all sorts...

Wars would cease ...

Hunger/world starvation would come to an end

Technologies would be released for easier living and more relaxation for all

We would become more spiritual enlightened

We would be able to travel anywhere on earth with ease, if we wish other planets as well

We would all come together and learn how look after Gaia with right pruning here so that we could sustain growth in areas that need it.

We would be guided toward more natural healing as opposed to the crap most digest daily

No more worries about chasing your tail for the dollar, just to survive...

Well just a few tid bits...many more I am sure

viking