The Noble Qur'an topics and Questions

[Tangri]

I thought twice , third times before I start this Thread.

I was sorry to whom being set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil.

It is very interesting to know that by sure, it is real but rest of the world unaware of it .

Muslim people love the Jews . They did try to protect, support them hundreds years, until 50 years earlier of these days from zionist elits. And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

Muslim people believe and respects all prophets and their role of the earth.
The Nobel Qur'an is a reminder. A last one as a remind and warn.

In Muslim believe, The Torah came for Jews because of the Elites(Egyptian's Tirans) Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.
http://quran.com/2

http://www.torah.org/learning/maharal/p1m2part4.html

It will continue,

Love and Peace

[danceblackcatdance]

i've not done much (any) study of the Qur'an, but i am led to believe that Jesus is one of the most quoted prophets in the book?

and that there are many correlations with the Torah? obviously the bible too as it came much after both of the others...

[Praxis]

Levent Tonga, I mean no disrespect towards you or your beliefs. After my brother converted when he married his wife, I asked them for a copy of the Qu'ran because I wanted to know what got my brother to believe in something. However, I can not make it through the book because it is constantly repeating that Allah is all powerful and oft forgiving, yet you need to be afraid of him.
Demi gods require fear. The true GOD requires you only to experience. The only person you have to fear is yourself. Like the Qu'ran states you will watch the movie of your life when you die. However, I believe, and this may or may not be the belief that Muslims share, that we judge our own life and live through the actions that we did from the people we acted upon, positive and negative. There will be no hellfire and damnation for the wicked, just the judgment of their own conscience.
The god of the Qu'ran is a contradictory character, just like the gods of the Torah and Bible. I believe that the messages have been distorted for political and vampiric gains.

I want to repeat what I said: The true GOD would never require you to be any one state, especially fear, but would rather you just experience without outside pressure. If GOD were to prefer one state over another, it would be love. If it is not, I would not worship the true GOD either and I suggest you do the same. Only worship at the altar of the GOD of love, not fear.

[deridan]

having grown up in the christian dogma (old testament, new testament .... old school church and then new school evangelical church), it was easy to separate the LINES after much experience,
{& i mean i would not recommend for any christian to only carry half of this journey out, ...but complete it,...and who has time or the inclination or intellectual capacity}
[[that is to do with the fear-love doctrine]]

..could i/we not venture a guess, that the prominent 'say fear message' that the muslims give,,,,, is but only a remnant of 'person doctrine', rather then being a true measure of the TEXT-itself...
i mean, lets remember that religions compete for prominence, and that at the time when this was set up, that Muslims had in there eye the catholics
(--i've tried the short-cut route to learn about several religions, and for hinduism for-instance i've had to ask myself whether the commentary texts i've read were not a bit dated--)

[music]

Remember that though the prophet channels the words of God, these pure ideas are processed with human equipment, and the ideas expressed in human language. Then the works are read by other humans with different processing equipment and life experience. So any channeled or religious material is by definition three times removed from the pure intent of source.

The Qur'an is a wonderful and poetic exploration of humanity's relationship with the divine, and any percieved issues that the west has with Islam are the result of the words being tainted by flawed humans with sectarian and personal power agendas. The Qur'an is the first place in which the property rights of ordinary women are safeguarded, written down and transmitted as law, yet the west sees only the persecution of women that is not actually justified in the Qur'an, and which is the work of twisted zealots.

It is long past time that we as humans stopped looking at the differences of our beliefs, and learned to cherish the similarities

Love

[Eagle Eye]

I have one word for Noble Qur'an and it is : PERFECTION
Its the interpretation of this book that worries me so much because has caused so much confusion among people.

[Ultima Thule]

I remember picking up the Qur´an from the library shelf when I was in the high school. The first thing I read was about how man never ever has the right to harm another being in any circumstances(something in the likes of that at least..). After that I´ve never questioned the value of Qur´an but the later interpretations instead that seem to me to be tools of harnessing power over men.

UT

[Tangri]

I recently finished reading Torah. What I understand is all tree Prophets came from Jews, all were circumcised because of the Abraham's customs.

[ED209]

Levent Tonga, I mean no disrespect towards you or your beliefs. After my brother converted when he married his wife, I asked them for a copy of the Qu'ran because I wanted to know what got my brother to believe in something. However, I can not make it through the book because it is constantly repeating that Allah is all powerful and oft forgiving, yet you need to be afraid of him.
Demi gods require fear. The true GOD requires you only to experience. The only person you have to fear is yourself. Like the Qu'ran states you will watch the movie of your life when you die. However, I believe, and this may or may not be the belief that Muslims share, that we judge our own life and live through the actions that we did from the people we acted upon, positive and negative. There will be no hellfire and damnation for the wicked, just the judgment of their own conscience.
The god of the Qu'ran is a contradictory character, just like the gods of the Torah and Bible. I believe that the messages have been distorted for political and vampiric gains.

I want to repeat what I said: The true GOD would never require you to be any one state, especially fear, but would rather you just experience without outside pressure. If GOD were to prefer one state over another, it would be love. If it is not, I would not worship the true GOD either and I suggest you do the same. Only worship at the altar of the GOD of love, not fear.

I don't think there really is a way to know what an original god or universal god is like. Maybe good, maybe bad, maybe neutral, and maybe even non-existent. I do not assume that god is loving. I don't have a reason to assume that. Love might just be an evolutionary adaptation that assists in the conveyance on genetic material and cell division through the generations.

[music]

Levent Tonga, I mean no disrespect towards you or your beliefs. After my brother converted when he married his wife, I asked them for a copy of the Qu'ran because I wanted to know what got my brother to believe in something. However, I can not make it through the book because it is constantly repeating that Allah is all powerful and oft forgiving, yet you need to be afraid of him.
Demi gods require fear. The true GOD requires you only to experience. The only person you have to fear is yourself. Like the Qu'ran states you will watch the movie of your life when you die. However, I believe, and this may or may not be the belief that Muslims share, that we judge our own life and live through the actions that we did from the people we acted upon, positive and negative. There will be no hellfire and damnation for the wicked, just the judgment of their own conscience.
The god of the Qu'ran is a contradictory character, just like the gods of the Torah and Bible. I believe that the messages have been distorted for political and vampiric gains.

I want to repeat what I said: The true GOD would never require you to be any one state, especially fear, but would rather you just experience without outside pressure. If GOD were to prefer one state over another, it would be love. If it is not, I would not worship the true GOD either and I suggest you do the same. Only worship at the altar of the GOD of love, not fear.

I don't think there really is a way to know what an original god or universal god is like. Maybe good, maybe bad, maybe neutral, and maybe even non-existent. I do not assume that god is loving. I don't have a reason to assume that. Love might just be an evolutionary adaptation that assists in the conveyance on genetic material and cell division through the generations.

God means many things to many people, but when we break it down, I think all refer to our true nature. Internal and multi-dimensional exploration leads us to realise the truth that pure love is the background state of all being. Love viewed while in higher consciousness is different to human love. Recalling Plato's concept of the "forms", what we know as earthly love is only a poor copy of pure love. In any kind of data transfer system, there is loss during the process of transfer. In humans this is exacerbated by clunky perceptual devices, psychological incoherence, life experience, degree of repression of aspects of self, etc. All we perceive is but a poor reflection of the purity of love. Human love is based on need, pure love is the joy of being. All beings have but one desire in common, and that is the desire for love, but funnily enough, when we experience pure love we are freed from desire; we are freed from attachment.

When we truly live through the heart, we act allways in love. This is perfection, and we can do no wrong because our every action, being of love, will be for the greater good. In this way, laws and policemen are not needed, armies become redundant, and we realise that we are all one, and that we are God.

[ED209]

I am not a very positive person. I think of how we are supposedly created in god's image and then I think of how rotten people can be, which makes me think that god might just be rotten. Rotten created out of rotten. But Music, yeah, I like your vision much more than my own.

[GarethBKK]

A good starting point for me when embarking on an understanding (not a following) of Islam was to study Islamic geometry. I encourage all to do a search of Islamic geometric art and then compare to the following: crop circles, mandala, Judaic symbols, Egyptian mystery schools, alchemy, Plato's solids, megalithic structure, cymatic shapes et al. It is forbidden to depict Allah in art, and so geometry is used instead. Throughout Islam is a sacred geometry that feels so familiar and comforting to me. I can't see anything negative coming out of this, and so with open eyes I read the Qu'ran. As Music eloquently says "let's cherish the similarities".

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his inquisitors cap, his sceptics cap, his contrarian cap and some tin pants just for good measure ....


I thought twice , third times before I start this Thread.Fair enough. I also note you started it in a general thread so I will have no compunction about holding back from asking what some may perceive as awkward questions thus I hope you are up for robust discussion.


I was sorry to whom being set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil.As am I for all those who are influenced by what I perceive as delusional dogma...


It is very interesting to know that by sure, it is real but rest of the world unaware of it .Can you expand on this a little bit? ie Can I have your definition of 'real' here along with an explanation of what you know that the rest of the world does not.


Muslim people love the Jews . They did try to protect, support them hundreds years, until 50 years earlier of these days from zionist elits. And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."I am also equally sure that plenty of Jews love Muslims so your point is??


Muslim people believe and respects all prophets and their role of the earth.
The Nobel Qur'an is a reminder. A last one as a remind and warn.One mans Prophet can be another mans quack. To me Nostradamus, Machiavelli and Sun Tzu were prophets equal to any other so what is a Muslim perspective on what they had to say??


In Muslim believe, The Torah came for Jews because of the Elites(Egyptian's Tirans) Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.Hmm... finger pointing already, my god is better than your god and to me this is where the problems begin. Do you not find it arrogant to say the least that any man should hold his head above that of another and if not by what right do you claim such superiority? Surely not on the basis of having read the words of yet another man in some ancient text !!!


It will continue,Oh it will, of that you can rest assured especially while one sector of humanity for whatever reason wishes to claim superiority over some other section of humanity.

As for questions, I'd like to start with my three standard questions for those of religious persuasion...

1) Other than fallaciously claiming knowing through faith, can you prove your god exists?

2) Is your god a loving god?

3) Has anyone claiming to be an adherent to your religion ever been involved in any wars?

You asked for questions and although the source is from yet another dogmatic doctrine (christian) source http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-questions.htm I thought it would be interesting if you tried some of these on for size since any successful refutation put forward will see me in a position to happily put that case to the source in point:p






Muslims claim, that a proof the Koran was from God, is that it contains scientifically accurate information about Embryology before man discovered it for himself. However, all the information in the Koran regarding Embryology is copied from three sources, 1. A Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. 2. A Jewish doctor named Samuel ha-Yehudi who lived 150 AD. 3. the Greek father of medicine Hippocrates who lived 400 BC. My question is: in light of the fact that all the information contained in the Koran was already in print by these three doctors, will you retract the argument on Embryology? If not, will you supply one detail revealed in the Koran about Embryology, that was not already revealed or that was new?
Muslims claim, that a proof that the Koran was from God is that it contains scientifically accurate information about Embryology, yet in 86:6-7 the Koran says, "man was created from ejected liquid- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believed semen originates, from the brain down the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally out of the body. (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983, p. 317) My question is: do you reject modern science and believe the Koran when it says sperm originates from the mid-gut section of a man's body.
Muslims quote an article written in 1957 by the Jehovah's Witnesses who stated there were 50,000 errors in the translation of the King James version. My question is: Even if this were true, (which of course it is not), how does this prove there is corruption in the original Greek MSS from which the King James version was translated?
Muslims claim, that the many different translations of the English Bible will render a single text with many different words and phrases. You said this was proof the Bible is corrupted and that the Koran reads exactly the same way everywhere in the world in Arabic. My question is: Since the many English translations of the Koran also render a single text with many different words, does that proof that the Koran is corrupted?
Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus when he hung on the cross. The Bible records that Jesus said "Eli Eli lama sabachthani", but you say Jesus really cried out to Allah and said "Allah, Allah lama sabachthani" My question is: Would you please explain why you would use this argument when you don't believe Jesus ever hung on the cross? And second, since Jesus was quoting Ps 22:1 on the cross, isn't rather unlikely that both the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are wrong using Eli, a Hebrew word, rather than Allah, an arab word?
Muslims chide Christians because the earliest complete copies of the Bible were written 300 years after the originals of the first century. Yet Muslim scholars state the earliest copy of the Koran was written no earlier than 150 years after Muhammad died. My question is: in light of this fact, how could the Koran possibly be better than the Bible and would you please state the name and location and date of the earliest Koran you believe to be in existence?
Both the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul are written in the script style called "Kufic". And not the earlier style known as Ma'il or Mashq. This fact is the reason Muslim scholars date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. My question is: leaving aside blind faith and wishful thinking, what evidence do you supply that these MSS were written any earlier?
The British Museum in London has an ancient copy of the Koran written in the Ma'il style of script, but practicing Muslim scholar Martin Lings, who is the former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, dates this manuscript at 790 AD. My question is: Apart from just making the claim, what evidence do you supply that this MSS were written any earlier?
The text of the Koran in 37:103 reads "they had both submitted their wills (became Muslims)" while the Arabic text of the Tashkent MSS gives the exact opposite meaning, "they did not submitted their wills" (they did NOT become Muslims.) My question is: have you actually read the Tashkent MSS for yourself in this passage and how do you explain this textual variation given your comments on the miracle of the perfect Koran?
Qur'an 18:9, makes into real history, the second century myth of 7 Christian youths who were persecuted for their faith and went to sleep in a cave for 300 years and then woke up with no ill effects. In the original myth the hero is a Christian, but in the Koran the hero is a Muslim. My question is: in the absence of any copyright laws when the Koran was written, are you at least prepared to pay compensation to the living relatives of the author of this myth? If not, would you be in favor of going starting up a charity fund to compensate for damages of copyright infringement?
Koran 5:116, represents Christians as worshipping Mary which is a historical error. Given the fact that the pagan Arabs did worship Mary's idol in the Kaba, and that history records no group of Christians had ever worshiped Mary at this time, my question is would you please name the sect of Christians who worshiped Mary at the time of Muhammad?
Muslim's reject the doctrine of inherited sin of Adam but teach the Immaculate Conception of Mary. The reason the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was invented was to remove inherited sin. My question is: since you reject the doctrine of inherited sin and believe all men are born without sin, why do Muslim's teach the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary?
In Koran 7:125, death by crucifixion is stated to exist at the time of Moses in 1500BC. Yet Encyclopedia Britannica, in harmony with all records of history, reports that crucifixion did not exist any earlier than 500 BC. My question is: to how do you explain this blaring historical error, and do you just disregard the history of the world merely because the Karen says otherwise?
Muslim scholar, Tabbarah, said in his book, The Spirit of Islam, "Moslems do not worship the Black Stone, but only show special reverence and veneration for its dignity and they kiss it only after the example of the Prophet and to keep their Covenant with God to obey His Will and avoid His disobedience." (Tabbarah, The Spirit of Islam, p. 173, Muslim). Focusing on Tabbarah's key phrase of showing reverence and veneration to the Black Stone, My question is do you see any difference between the Muslim practice of kissing showing reverence and venerating the Black Stone and the Catholic practice of pope John Paul II kissing the statute of the Virgin Mary with reverence and veneration?
Informed Christians know there is no passage and the Koran that says the Bible is lost altered or corrupted. My question is would you please list all the passages you know where the Qur'an says the Bible that was in the hands of the Christians at the time of Muhammad had been corrupted?
Muslims will quote Quran 2:79 as a verse where the Koran says the canon of the Bible is corrupted, "Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!" My question is: If this verse refers to the corruption of the Bible, then why did Muhammad command Christians to follow the Bible they possessed in 600 AD in Quran 2:89; 7:157? And is this the only verse in the Koran that says the Bible is corrupt? (see also Quran 2:40-42,126,136,285; 3:3,71,93; 4:47,136; 5:47-51, 69,71-72; 6:91; 10:37,94; 21:7; 29:45,46; 35:31; 46:11)
Muslims will quote Jer 8:8 as proof that the Old Testament canon is corrupt, "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the Lord is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made [I]it into a lie" Yet this verse is clearly speaking of the written scribal interpretations of the Bible as Jesus condemned in Mt 15:1-14. Here Jesus accused the Scribes of the same thing regarding washing of hands and Corban, "you invalidate the written word of God for the sake of your tradition." My question is: is this the only text in the Bible where you claim the canon was corrupted? If not quote the other texts.
How can Muslims claim there are no textual variations in the Koran, when the Tashkent MSS differs from the modern Egyptian Qur'an in 5 passages: 2:284, 2:283, 3:37, 3:109 and 5:119. The Tashkent MSS uses the word 'Allah' while the modern Egyptian Qur'an, uses the word 'huwa' (the pronoun 'he'). My question is: Which word do you believe are in the "preserved master tablet" and "mother of all books" in heaven?
The yearly Passover ritual began the same year it was initiated in the 10th plague and continued uninterrupted for 1500 years. The weekly Lord's supper ritual began the same week that Christ was crucified and has continued ever since for 2000 years. The Islamic rituals just come out of nowhere, 2600 years after Abraham lived. Being as unbiased as you possibly can, My question is: are not the Jewish and Christian rituals more likely to be based on real history since the rituals of Islam that just pop out of nowhere 2600 years later?
The "Throw" is a reenactment ritual based upon Abraham and the "Run" is a reenactment ritual based upon Hagar. My question is: Did Adam perform the throw and the Run, and if not exactly when did they become part of Islamic ritual and do you have any actual historical evidence to support such?
Given the fact that Isaac Watt, said in his book, Islam and Christianity Today, "By the standards of modern historiography, the crucifixion of Jesus is one of the most certain events in past history" (Watt, Islam and Christianity Today, p. 144). My question is: What historical evidence do you give outside of the Qur'an that Jesus did not die on across?
If all Muslim's must reject the crucifixion of Christ based on the Koran and all Christians must reject Muhammad as a prophet based on the Bible, my question is: on exactly what basis do you believe Christianity and Islam are compatible religions?
Given the fact that the gospel of Barnabas is the 15th century forgery by Muslims, my question is: why do you quote this document as proof that early Christians denied the crucifixion of Christ and what proof do you offer that it is not a Muslim forgery?
Muslim's will quote Yusuf Ali's comment in footnote 663, as proof that the three early Christian sects of Marcion, Docetism, Basilides, denied the crucifixion of Christ. Given the fact the three sects are condemned as false teachers, deceivers and the anti-Christ in six Bible passages (1 John 1:1,14; 2:22; 4:1-3; 5:6; 2 John 7) My question is: on what basis do you claim they are Christian sects and isn't it as much of a misrepresentation for you to quote these Gnostic sects as Christians who deny the crucifixion, as it would be a misrepresentation for Christians to quote the Baha'i faith as proof Muhammad was not the final Prophet? (The holy Qur'an, text, translation and commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. 1872-1952, First published in 1938, 1973 ed., p. 230, footnote 663, commenting on 4:157)
The Koran says in 4:157, that God causes someone who looked like Jesus to die on the cross in his place, therefore tricking the apostles of Christ into thinking he was crucified. My question is: how can you escape the fact that the rise of Christianity to the largest religion in the world is ultimately the result of the divine action of Allah?
The deity of Jesus is affirmed four times in Hebrews chapter 1. Jesus Christ is called the son of God, worshiped by Angels, called God by the Father and stated to be the creator. Given the fact that you would say that this is a textual corruption of the original gospel message, my question is would you not agree that this corrupted text does indeed call Jesus God?
The Islamic religion teaches that Jesus Christ was a practicing Muslim. My question is: is this any less ridiculous than if Christians said Muhammad was a practicing Buddhist?
Muslim's claim that Isaiah 42 is a prophecy of Muhammad. Yet Isaiah 53 is one of the foremost prophecies of the crucifixion of Christ in the entire Old Testament. My question is: on what basis do you feel Isaiah 42 is uncorrupted which prophecies Muhammad, but Isaiah 53 is corrupted that prophesies the crucifixion of Christ?
My question is: If you feel the Bible is so corrupted, than why do you quote Deut 18:18 and John 16:13 as uncorrupted prophecies of Muhammad's comment in the sixth century AD.
Acts 19:23-41 mentions a religion that worshipped the great goddess Artemis and her meteorite which fell down from heaven. Taking note that this religion centered around a meteorite, my question is: is it possible that this is a pagan corruption of the Black Stone and meteorite that fell at the foot of Adam and that at the time of Christ the Black Stone was actually in Ephesus Asia minor?
Galatians 1:6-9 Apostle Paul says "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Christ for a different religion. But even if an angel from heaven, should preach to you a different religion, let him be accursed." My question is: Do you think it possible that this is a genuine text from God and he foresaw that both Muhammad and Joseph Smith would be taught a new religion by an angel?
Before the discovery of the dead sea scrolls in 1947 the earliest copy of the Old Testament was the Massoretic Text dated at 1000 AD. The dead sea scrolls are dated at 100 B.C. contain 19 copies of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of Psalms that are virtually identical to what we have in our Bible's today. My question is: since you believe the Old Testament was corrupted long before the dead sea scrolls were written in 100 B.C., will you at least admit that there has been no further corruption of the Old Testament since 100 B.C. right down to the present?
In Jude 3; 2 Peter 1:3; John 16:13 and 2 Tim 3:16 the Bible is called an all sufficient book with no need for anything else in regards to how we live our lives or worship God. You claim the same thing for the Qur'an. My question is: how can the Qur'an be all sufficient in our worship of Allah, if it does not even mention something as important as praying five times a day and does this not prove that the Koran without the Hadith is like a car without an engine?
The Huleatt Manuscript was written in 50 AD and is actually a prayer addressed to Jesus and calls Jesus "God". Therefore, Christians have in their possession archeological inscriptions within 20 years of Christ's resurrection that say he is God. My question is: Do you know of any archeological inscription dated within 100 years of Muhammad's death where he is called a prophet? If so, please name it.
The Bible contains over 60 distinct prophecies of Jesus Christ 1000 years before hand. My question is: what is the single most remarkable prophecy that Muhammad made that was fulfilled?
Muslim's believe the Bible is corrupted. Yet in Isa 40:22 and three other passages. (Prov 8:27; Amos 9:6 Job 26:10) it says the earth is round and not flat. Job 26:7 says the earth is free-floating in space: "he hangs the earth on nothing." Both these facts are scientifically accurate, and revealed in the Bible long before man discovered it for himself. My question is: Are these passages scientifically accurate corruption's?
Muslims proudly quote several passages in the Koran 30:48; 24:43, as scientifically accurate explanations of the hydrologic water cycle. My question is: given the fact the Bible had already fully documented the hydrologic water cycle 1600 before the Koran in Job 36:27-28, and 3 other passages (Eccl 11:3; Job 26:8; Eccl 1:6-7), doesn't this proof Muhammad merely copied the scientific facts of the hydrologic water cycle directly from the Bible? (Clouds hold water: Eccl 11:3; Job 26:8; Rivers recycle water: Eccl 1:6-7; Evapouration: Amos 9:6)
The 66 books of the Bible were written by 40 different men over a period of 1600 years with multiple threads of unified themes that span cover to cover. My question is: would you not agree that in contrast to the Bible, that the Qur'an is a jumble of disjointed material, without order, continuity or unity of any kind?
Muslims authorities refuse to release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul, one of the three oldest Korans in existence. My question is: do you have any idea why Muslim authorities refuse to release documentary photographs of the Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul and what they are afraid for the world to see?
Muslims have repeatedly claimed that Muslim women have more rights in Islam then Western women do in Canada and the USA. The proof you supplied with the fact that Islam gave women the right to vote 1400 years ago but women in the West only got the right to vote 100 years ago. My question is: would you please name one country in the world today that is ruled by a Islamic "Shariah" law where women are permitted to vote?
Muslim's claim that their growth rate is 235 percent and 47 percent for Christianity. This statistic came from the Readers Digest Almanac and Yearbook 1983, and represents 235 percent increase over 50 years. A simple review of the readers Digest study shows that the growth rate of Islam vs. Christianity is directly linked to the birth rate in Third World countries where Islam dominates and not actual conversions to each religion. My question is: do you have any more recent statistics on an annualized basis?
Muslims claim that Jesus prayed using the Muslim prayer posture, along with all the prophets. Yet Jesus instructed his disciples to pray while standing up. (Mark 11:25), King David prayed while sitting in (2 Sam 7:18), and Paul instructed prayer in church with hands lifted up in the air. (1 Tim 2:8) My question is: If Jesus was a Muslim, why would he instruct his disciples to pray standing up? And when it says Jesus fell on his face and prayed, how do you know he was not fully prostrate?
Muslims claim that Muhammad always worshipped Allah in a 100% correct way, without the need for any restoral. My question is: If this is true, then why did Muhammad pray towards Jerusalem for the first 5 years of his prophethood, and later redirected his prays towards Mecca? And did Jesus pray towards Mecca 5 times a towards Jerusalem or Mecca?
The Bible defines a miracle as something that defies the laws of nature. Muslims claim the Koran is a miracle merely because it was allegedly transmitted perfectly without alteration and flaw till the second coming. Since the Harry Potter books will certainly be transmitted perfectly without alteration or flaw, and be around until the second coming, my question is: does this make the Harry Potter books a miracle like the Koran?
Muslims claim that in Isa 42:1 Muhammad fulfilled the expression "bring forth justice to the nations" indicating that the immoral pagan Arabs before Muhammad's time were reformed into a just moral society. My question is: Even though you believe the New Testament is corrupt, had the Immoral Pagan Arabs all become Christians and followed the moral standards revealed in the corrupted New Testament, would they not have also transformed into a just moral society? If no why not? And how is the moral standard in the Koran superior to the moral standard of the Bible?
Muslims claim that the Angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary and caused her to conceive based upon Luke 1:26:38. My question is: If this is true, then why did Gabriel say to Mary in verse 35, "the power of the Holy Spirit will come upon you" rather than "my power will come upon you"?
Muslims quote Luke 22:43 as proof that when Jesus cried out to God not to be crucified, that an angel came and saved him from crucifixion. However the next verses says that Jesus was arrested by the mob for crucifixion. My Question is: on what basis do you accept the first passage as uncorrupted scripture, but reject the next verse as corrupted scripture?
Muslims claim it was medically impossible for blood and water to come out of Jesus when his side was pierced with spear because all the blood in Jesus body would have been clotted. The universal opinion of forensic scientists say that blood takes days to clot. My question is: Is this another example of where you reject all known science simply because Islam says this?
Muslims quote liberal agnostic Bible trashes who claim that the four gospels were copied from a lost original gospel known as the "Q document". This is a mythological document invented by these skeptics who reject Christianity, because they simply cannot accept the Bible is a book inspired from God. My question is: are you aware that the "Q Document" is a purely theoretical document that has never been found and is a complete fabrication and invention of the mind? And what is the value of quoting those who reject Christianity and Islam equally?
Muslims claim that the heading at the beginning of the four gospels "Gospel according to John", for example indicated the words came from John alone and prove the Bible to be a book of human authorship? In fact, that this text, like chapter and verse numbers, was added much later and are not part of the Bible? My question is: where did you learn that this text was part of the Bible?
Muslims state that they believe that the Bible is a book filled with pornography, and quoted Gen 19:32 where Lot made his two daughters pregnant. My Question is: Do you feel that the Bible should be removed from every library in Canada? And are you comfortable with the fact that your prophet Muhammad married a six year old child, when he was 55 years old? Do you think this is a good story to tell children?
Muslims teach Muhammad was sinless. However the Koran specifically limits the number of wives a Muslim man can marry to 4. Yet Muhammad married at least 12 women. My question is: Is Muhammad above the very law he gave in the Koran and isn't the definition of sin violating the law of God?
Muslims quote George Bernard Shaw who said, "The Bible is the most dangerous book in the world, keep it lock and keyed." My question is: What value is there for you to quote an atheist like Shaw who also said: "There is not one single established religion that an intelligent, educated man can believe." (George Bernard Shaw quoted in "2000 Years of Disbelief, Famous People with the Courage to Doubt", by James A. Haught, Prometheus Books, 1996) Shaw also said: "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. (George Bernard Shaw, Androcles and the Lion, Preface, 1916)
To prove the Bible text is corrupted, Muslims quote a newspaper article in the "Daily News" of Durban South Africa, Tues. May 22, 1990, where you claimed the Church of Scotland had deleted the virgin birth from the Bible. The article actually said that the church of Scotland had merely deleted the teaching from their local church creed and statement of faith. My question is: Would you please explain how a church deleting the virgin birth from their church doctrine books, in any way proves the Bible is corrupted?
Muslims quote Isa 42 as a prophecy of Muhammad and say that Christians teach it is a prophecy of the Holy Spirit. (In fact Christians apply the text to Christ.) You also said that Isa 42 can only be fulfilled by Muhammad because Jesus is never called "my servant". My question is: why did Matthew quote Isa 42 and apply the whole text to Jesus in Matthew 12:18?
Muslims claim that the prophecy of the coming prophet in Deut 18:18 cannot be fulfilled by Jesus but could be fulfilled by Muhammad because the text says the prophet must arise from among their own brethren. Muslims say that if a Hebrew was intended, that the Bible would have said, "from among yourselves" rather than the expression "from among their own brethren". Hence Muslims claim the expression, "from among their own brethren" excludes all Hebrews and specifically Jesus. My question is: Since Deut 17:15 uses exactly the same expression, when it said, "you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses, one from among your own brethren" why did God appoint Saul and David as King and not an Ishmaelite? And in Deut 18:2 it says, "The Levites shall have no inheritance from among their brethren." Did the Ishmaelites share the inheritance of the promised land of Palestine with the Hebrews?
The Koran says in 4:157, that God causes someone who looked like Jesus to die on the cross in his place, therefore tricking the apostles of Christ into thinking he was crucified. Apostle John wrote in1 John 1:1 concerning the crucifixion: "What we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life". My question is: Was not John accurately reporting the things he actually saw, things that Allah made appear to happen?
Muslims claim that the New Testament story of Jesus dying on the cross is a corruption of the truth and that Allah made it appear that Jesus died on the cross, as per Q4:157. My question is: How can Muslims claim that they believe any of the New Testament was originally revealed by God, since the corruption must have begun at the cross.
Muslims believe that the whole concept of blood atonement is an invention of the Christian church. My question is: What were the Jews doing since 1500 BC on the "day of atonement".
Muslims reject the gospel story of Jesus being a substitute for our sins, the just for the unjust. They use the illustration of a man having to pay for a speeding ticket he did not commit. My question is: How do you explain that in the Muslim view of the cross, someone completely innocent died in Jesus place, after God made him appear to be Jesus? Was not this a Substitutionary sacrifice?

Written by Brother Andrew (http://www.bible.ca/islam/email-brother-andrew.htm)
The 45 Bonus Questions for Muslims:
by Robert Morey
The outline below contains the very answers to the very questions Muhammad did not want his followers to know, namely that Islam is a sanitized version of ancient polytheistic moon worship which he invented to exercise military control.


Does the Qur'an define the word "Allah"? No.
Was the name "Allah" revealed for the first time in the Qur'an? No
Does the Qur'an assume that its readers have already heard of "Allah"? Yes
Should we look into pre-Islamic Arabian history to see who "Allah" was before Muhammad? Yes.
According to Muslim tradition, was Muhammad born into a Christian family and tribe? No
Was he born into a Jewish family or tribe? No
What religion was his family and tribe? Pagans
What was the name of his pagan father? Abdullah (Abd + Allah)
Did Muhammad participate in the pagan ceremonies of Mecca? Yes
Did the Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes
Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes
Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes
Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes
What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.
Was the title "al-ilah" (the god) used of the Moon-god? Yes
Was the word "Allah" derived from "al-ilah?" Yes
Was the pagan "Allah" a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.
Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.
Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes
Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.
At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.
Was the Kabah thus the "house of the Moon-god"? Yes.
Did the name "Allah" eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.
Did they call the Kabah the "house of Allah"? Yes
Did the pagans develop religious rites in connection with the worship of their gods? Yes.
Did the pagans practice the Pilgrimage, the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc.? Yes.
Did Muhammad command his followers to participate in these pagan ceremonies while the pagans were still in control of Mecca? Yes (Yusuf Ali, fn. 214, pg. 78).
Did Islam go on to adopt these pagan religious rites? Yes. (Yusuf Ali: fn. 223 pg. 80).
Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called "the daughters of Allah"? Yes.
Did the Qur'an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.
Have those verses been "abrogated" out of the present Qur'an? Yes.
What were they called? "The Satanic Verses." Yes.
Was the crescent moon an ancient pagan symbol of the Moon-god throughout the ancient world? Yes.
Was it the religious symbol of the Moon-god in Arabia? Yes
Were stars also used as pagan symbols of the daughers of Allah? Yes
Did the Jews or the Christians of Arabia use the crescent moon with several stars next to it as symbols of their faith? No
Did Islam adopt the pagan crescent moon and stars as it religious symbol? Yes.
As Islam developed over the centuries, did it adopt pagan names, pagan ceremonies, pagan temples and pagan symbols? Yes
Is it possible that most Muslims do not know the pagan sources of the symbols and rites of their own religion? Yes.
Are they shocked to find out the true sources of their ceremonies and stories? Yes
Can Islam be the religion of Abraham if it is derived from paganism? No
What then is Islam? A modern version of one of the ancient fertility cults.
Is the "Allah" of the Qur'an, the Christian God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? No
Do the Jews say that the Muslim "Allah" is their God too? No
Then whose god is Allah? Paganism





Now having said / quoted all of that please understand I will happily carry out the same exercise for any organised religion since for me they are all equally suspect when it comes to claims of being the unique word of god.

Thus my friend the ball appears to be entirely in your court so over to you...

Peace

PS if your christian and gloating these are for you...

1. When God said, "Go forth and multiply" did he not understand the problems that are caused by exponential population growth, or did he just choose not to tell us?

2. If human's were made in God's image, then does God have any of the following: nose, teeth, lungs, nipples, penis? And what would he use them for? What color is his skin?

3. When people of other faiths have near death experiences, why do they meet their own religious figures and never meet Jesus?

4. Most Christians rely on modern miracles to justify their faith. The favorite is Fatima. Why were there no first hand accounts reported at the time - only to appear later - not even by the media which had gathered to observe, and why did the three secrets supposedly told by Mary, never before mentioned, suddenly appear in 1942, AFTER the events 'predicted' in the first two had actually occurred?

5. How is it possible that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus birth when Jesus had two older brothers?

6. Why is it important to believe in/worship your God? For example:
- Why must people convert to Christianity, so much so that when the Church has sufficient power they will kill or torture those who won't?
- Why does your God need to be worshiped at all?
- why must you fear your all-good, loving God?

7. Why did God give you freedom of choice to choose only that which he wants you to choose or be punished?

8. When a child dies from birth complications, birth defects, disease or starvation, does God say 'Whoops!'

9. Why don't you follow the other religions? 5 billion people on this planet think your belief is incorrect. The odds are against you being right, so why would you be right instead of them?

10. Can you explain the existence of dinosaurs and neanderthals? Humans never interacted with dinosaurs or there would be evidence. If God made all the animals for humans, then what's the point of animals that humans never encountered? If we are indeed made in God's image, then were the very similar looking neanderthals a mistake?

11. Why was not a single mention or word EVER written about Jesus by anyone who was alive at any time during Jesus' supposed life-time?

12. Aren't you worried that you may be worshiping the wrong God? The real one may be very displeased with your false idol.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I have a question...

In one of the holiest Mosques in Tehran, a veil caught fire that separates men from women falling on the Qu`ran and burning it...

now to me, being a religious folk, I would see this as an act of God...

after researching this book it turned out to be one of the original first worshiped 1335 years before this date...

prophet Daniel's book ends in a message about the object that causes desecration will be destroyed after 1335...

does the Qu'ran also have Daniel and the same message at the end as in the Bible?

[butcherman]

now you mite just have a point there

Butcherman

[Rocky_Shorz]

Mad Hatter dons his inquisitors cap, his sceptics cap, his contrarian cap and some tin pants just for good measure ....

As for questions, I'd like to start with my three standard questions for those of religious persuasion...

1) Other than fallaciously claiming knowing through faith, can you prove your god exists?

2) Is your god a loving god?



1. yes
he gave me proof it wasn't just a dream by showing tomorrow can be changed with his will...

2. yes and no...

following messages, biblical disasters struck on 3 occasions killing close to a million...

yes because he was waiting for all of those souls when they arrived...

I'm what they call a God fearing man, because I have seen his actions...

on the other hand, I have watched miracles, a child stood who had never walked and ran to her mother...

he does care for all of us...

my first message was correcting a type-o of a Prophet...

written to the church of Sardis, at the time, John didn't recognize the name Saudis... Sardis was an important Persian city, so no matter which way it is read, the message was left there waiting...

the Church of Saudis, as in Arabia is where Islam began...

38,000 died for that little correction showing who was dotting my i's and crossing my t's...

[sdv]

Just my opinion, but aren't all divinely/angelically inspired texts, which are then used as a basis for religious organisations, just a part of human politics? There are ideas and stories worth contemplating and discussing in all so-called divinely inspired texts. If anyone wants to share those from the Qu'ran on this thread, I will be very interested to listen and contemplate, but we do not have to buy into the religion to contemplate, engage with, acknowledge and accept any ideas expressed in any so-called divinely inspired texts?!

I would love to see on this thread an engagement with what we can embrace from the Qu'ran, not because we want to be converted to the religion, but because we recognise and accept and uphold human rights and values in all religious texts, which transcend all religious texts and organisations.

I have never read the Qu'ran (it is is supposed to be beautifully poetic in its original language), but live peacefully and happily with Muslims in my community nonetheless. I also know of a number of men who have married very much younger Muslim women and have changed their names and converted to Islam.

It is all very confusing, but I am open to supporting this thread if it can identify and open to discussion the values expressed in the Qu'ran that we find transcend religions and culture and thus foster tolerance and acceptance of differences.

PS Thanks to Mad Hatter, for the input but ,although I do not subscribe to the religion, culture and holy book of Islam (however, do love the food, rich creativity in how they dress, and so on), I am sure that if I read the book, I would find something of value to take away with me!

[Rocky_Shorz]

much of Islam's teachings are the same as the Bible, the Prophets etc the same, the only major difference is they see Jesus as a Prophet instead of a God like Christians...

as long as everyone understands Jesus looked up to the same God as Islam, we'll be fine...


imagine a foreigner saying eloah, where the e is pronounced a and you will understand where Allah came from...

open to the front of your Bible and look under divine rendering...

they changed all the different names for God in the bible to God so people weren't fighting over a name...

2000 years later and it is still the name confusing everyone...


how many wars need to be fought over spelling?

[wynderer]

all you folks in the Middle East sure have a lot of historical/karmic stuff to carry

may the Force be with you...

[modwiz]

We need a sage burning smiley. Incense burner would work too.

[sdv]

Modwiz, sage burning is always a good idea to follow through on, for what ever reason.

So. folks, what in the Koran/Quran/Q'uran can we fins that resonates with us and is meaning to our lives?

[wynderer]

from: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Question:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

-------------------------------------------

and this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/696408/posts

VIOLENCE IN THE BIBLE AND THE KORAN

This leads us to the discussion of violence in the Bible and in the Koran. The debate over this question has intensified after the events of September 11. Those who want to exonerate the use of violence by Muslims, are quick to point out that Christianity is not different, because the Bible and Christian history are filled with violence. Earlier we cited Kenneth Woodward who wrote in Newsweek: "The Bible, too, has its stories of violence in the name of the Lord. The God of the early Biblical books is fierce indeed in his support of the Israelites warriors, drowning enemies in the sea" (Newsweek, February 11, 2002, p. 53).

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his fascinated cap....

@ Rocky_Shorz


1. yes
he gave me proof it wasn't just a dream by showing tomorrow can be changed with his will...

So how did that work?

Did you live through a particular day with no input from god that had one particular outcome then time travel back and relive the same day with his influence deriving a different outcome?

Did you agree on a methodology that would define how when and where gods influence would alter the outcome?

More questions come to mind...you imply things changed with his will so by that can I take it your / our will is not involved or is it a matter of team effort. If so what happens if two believers want different outcomes for the same event? Does god decide and if so do we really have free will?

Why god fearing I have to ask? I mean I could stand there awestruck at such abilities but I'm not prepared to give away my free will (assuming that's not a misnomer) to some entity that has such power but lacks the wisdom to see the error in demanding I pay homage. Sort of like cruelty to dumb animals in a way...

@ sdv


So. folks, what in the Koran/Quran/Q'uran can we fins that resonates with us and is meaning to our lives?

Great point. To my mind, although one risks the danger of being smote for changing the word of god, there would be value in taking all religious texts and parsing them to remove all references to violence etc. We should then end up with a tome of useful information about how to get along with each other sans all the gnarly bits...

Might even get the choir all singing of the same page...now wouldn't that be something !!

@ Modwiz


We need a sage burning smiley. Incense burner would work too.

You could add to that one for cleansing bells but my vote is for one displaying that face of wisdom appearing in your avatar:p

[ED209]

I don't understand why people need a book to tell them how to behave in the world, especially concerning basic moral stuff. I feel like I just inherently know how to behave ethically. I don't need a book to tell me how to be kind and not murder. I don't need a prophet or messiah to tell me. I think this is probably true for most people. Sure, yes, I am oversimplifying religious texts and missing out on their poetry and richness, but I think maybe more people have died for these books that have bern saved by the lessons contained within.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Mad Hatter dons his fascinated cap....

@ Rocky_Shorz


1. yes
he gave me proof it wasn't just a dream by showing tomorrow can be changed with his will...

So how did that work?

Did you live through a particular day with no input from god that had one particular outcome then time travel back and relive the same day with his influence deriving a different outcome?

Did you agree on a methodology that would define how when and where gods influence would alter the outcome?

More questions come to mind...you imply things changed with his will so by that can I take it your / our will is not involved or is it a matter of team effort. If so what happens if two believers want different outcomes for the same event? Does god decide and if so do we really have free will?

Why god fearing I have to ask? I mean I could stand there awestruck at such abilities but I'm not prepared to give away my free will (assuming that's not a misnomer) to some entity that has such power but lacks the wisdom to see the error in demanding I pay homage. Sort of like cruelty to dumb animals in a way...



well it's a pretty long story but the condensed version is I met him in my dreams, he asked me to deliver a message...

I had 4 million followers at the time so before I did, I asked him to prove it by giving me the following days lotto number...

done, he gave me two numbers that were the same as a special Key...

I played the numbers, the following day, both numbers came up...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=5469&thumb=1&d=1299273539

by now you must realize this isn't a job I asked for...

so I looked when to deliver the message, between Ramadan, Xmas and Hanukkah...

it was my birthday...

I delivered the message as asked then went to my Birthday party...

3 days later after the Christmas ham for our dinner, I leaned back to watch the news...

I delivered the message to Islam...


NEWS FLASH!!! Massive Quake hits Bamm Iran, 38,000 killed...


I looked over at the clock, 3 days almost to the minute...

that was just the beginning of becoming God Fearing...

2 more messages, 3/4 million lives...


the first one done online with millions watching, suddenly the forum was attacked, destroying the full history on the site including back-up... that's when I realized I have more than God to fear...

the 3rd, I decided not to wait until my birthday thinking if I deliver it early, maybe the disaster won't happen...

I delivered the poem feather of faith...

3 days later again to the minute, Massive Quake hits Pakistan, in what turned out to be exactly where bin Laden was hiding...

[deridan]

hate it when my internet connection goes dead on me unexpectedly, ...hit the post button and have everything disappear in the next second.

so here no frills:

(always send 3 prongs of attack into an enemies camp ...knowledge must move so in the land of ignorance, least one of its value points is derided)

liked Musics 1st post that it is much about the power of the crystal used to view the object (u crystal, object Text)

my personal favourite parts are those from which we see a closeness to Kabalic* themes, and those in which one sees a flicker of Eastern energy arts
*where i've seen them is my secret. i would have to read the full book to see the full listing of secrets. (last great secret energetically i found in an unusual rhythm repeat in Jeremiah)

then one would always find another narrative formatology (the imps of energy to result, both christian and quaranic have distinct flavour. for a good energy imp, if u christian, see psalm 119, use all words repeated more than 10times to manage the energetic flows) to the ones we familiar with

there may be 2 instances in the Quaran to do with UFOs
Muhammad ascends from Temple Rock jerusalem in what may be a ufo object
Muhammad (p.b.u.h) is holed up at Mecca, ..a large army attacks. they are apparently decimated with rocks dropped from birds

{like p.b.u.h - says something of the character of the man. it is a dint that one would say Peace be upon him, for even though M delivered this text, was first prophet, he said God would still decide whether i rest in Paradise/or/final heaven[perhaps]}

did i say the kabalah stuff. yes.
my fav part that can be used for us sdv in a very very future time,
is the meetings (prayer meetings are held five times aday, distinct prayers for each session, ..& what is prayer but meditation and ordering of charkra outputs?)
imagine for us, freed from the need to pray {cause we do so more or less intrinsically} to meet five times aday, amongst specialists
that time we should be able to master more than verbal communication, and it would be in the spirit that accuracies are convulsed
...so another good reason for its name as final testament of its type...that is God Inspired.

kabalah is after all philosophy (it came from the , or was systemized by the Jewish European dispora, ...maybe the Quranic elements are from the Essene dispora with early christianity)
j and m to me are but prophets, prophets philosophers the same
{though on some spirit level J is to me son of God, for the purpose as He said, First Son am I (Proverbs 1st chapter is supposed to be Jesus channeled by Soloman, as he speaks of she wisdom, much as men are prone to speak of great ground breaking machines be they car or ship by the title she), to make many sons}
(brother somewhere up ther of mordern christian ignorance. man made by God in his image , do not reference the mud frames.....there are treatize in the ot# dealing with the fallen path.... psychological soul spirit choices leading to longer shortcuts in this evolusinare path ,,,which is why some panic to leave the boat,)

[Tangri]

"O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty."

Qur'an is a reminder It reminds earlier warnings It does not deny them.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I don't understand why people need a book to tell them how to behave in the world, especially concerning basic moral stuff. I feel like I just inherently know how to behave ethically. I don't need a book to tell me how to be kind and not murder. I don't need a prophet or messiah to tell me. I think this is probably true for most people. Sure, yes, I am oversimplifying religious texts and missing out on their poetry and richness, but I think maybe more people have died for these books that have bern saved by the lessons contained within.

Yes I agree. These ancient avatars arrived with a doctrine to unify and educate a chaotic, barbaric and divided pagan world. For the most part that worked. However, political control mechanisms came into play, and over time they emerged to be less a useful spiritual aid as bespoke doctrines wielded more as a whipping-tool for the elite against the ignorant peasant masses. Meaning has thus been corrupted and overlaid, and truth ultimately diluted from its original form.

Such doctrines, Christian and Muslim alike, contain still tremendous virtue, wisdom and morality tales for the early seeker, but many important themes therein are distorted with old-world rituals and outdated philosophical theories. They have become institutions, serving to foster division rather unity, and to define cultural motifs (and ambitions) of today's political systems.

Together they have veered somewhat dangerously into the stagnant territory of dogma, and are now as obsolete as the beliefs of ancient pagan peoples they were designed to replace in the first place... Unfortunately such 'religions' have for mankind long outlived their usefulness.

[Tangri]

1. I swear by the Day of Resurrection;

2. And I swear by the self-reproaching person (a believer).

3. Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones?

4. Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.

5. Nay! (Man denies Resurrection and Reckoning. So) he desires to continue committing sins.

6. He asks: "When will be this Day of Resurrection?"

7. So, when the sight shall be dazed,

8. And the moon will be eclipsed,

9. And the sun and moon will be joined together (by going one into the other or folded up or deprived of their light, etc.)

10. On that Day man will say: "Where (is the refuge) to flee?"

11. No! There is no refuge!

12. Unto your Lord (Alone) will be the place of rest that Day.

13. On that Day man will be informed of what he sent forward (of his evil or good deeds), and what he left behind (of his good or evil traditions).

14. Nay! Man will be a witness against himself [as his body parts (skin, hands, legs, etc.) will speak about his deeds].

15. Though he may put forth his excuses (to cover his evil deeds).

16. Move not your tongue concerning (the Qur'an, O Muhammad ) to make haste therewith.

17. It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad ) the ability to recite it (the Qur'an),

18. And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad through Jibrael (Gabriel)], then follow you its (the Qur'an's) recital.

19. Then it is for Us (Allah) to make it clear to you,

20. Not [as you think, that you (mankind) will not be resurrected and recompensed for your deeds], but (you men) love the present life of this world,

21. And leave (neglect) the Hereafter.

22. Some faces that Day shall be Nadirah (shining and radiant).

23. Looking at their Lord (Allah);

24. And some faces, that Day, will be Basirah (dark, gloomy, frowning, and sad),

25. Thinking that some calamity was about to fall on them;

26. Nay, when (the soul) reaches to the collar bone (i.e. up to the throat in its exit),

27. And it will be said: "Who can cure him and save him from death?"

28. And he (the dying person) will conclude that it was (the time) of departing (death);

29. And leg will be joined with another leg (shrouded)

30. The drive will be, on that Day, to your Lord (Allah)!

31. So he (the disbeliever) neither believed (in this Qur'an, in the Message of Muhammad ) nor prayed!

32. But on the contrary, he belied (this Qur'an and the Message of Muhammad ) and turned away!

33. Then he walked in full pride to his family admiring himself!

34. Woe to you [O man (disbeliever)]! And then (again) woe to you!

35. Again, woe to you [O man (disbeliever)]! And then (again) woe to you!

36. Does man think that he will be left Suda [neglected without being punished or rewarded for the obligatory duties enjoined by his Lord (Allah) on him]?

37. Was he not a Nutfah (mixed male and female discharge of semen) poured forth?

38. Then he became an 'Alaqa (a clot); then (Allah) shaped and fashioned (him) in due proportion.

39. And made him in two sexes, male and female.

40. Is not He (Allah Who does that), Able to give life to the dead? (Yes! He is Able to do all things).

[humanalien]

38: The 66 books of the Bible were written
by 40 different men over a period of
1600 years with multiple threads of
unified themes that span cover to cover.

My question is: would you not agree that
in contrast to the Bible, that the Qur'an
is a jumble of disjointed material, without
order, continuity or unity of any kind?

I browsed through the Quran for the first time
yesterday. I read maybe 1 to 2 pages of each
chapter, just to familiarize myself with the book
and i found it to be just as you described it.
(In red above)

It made a brief mention of adam being created
out of clay and then it jumped to eve, already created
with no mention of how and then it went way off to
something else totally different.

The whole book was that way.


2: If human's were made in God's image,
then does God have any of the following:
nose, teeth, lungs, nipples, penis? And
what would he use them for? What color
is his skin?

I used to think the same thing but what i think
this means is the mankind had the likeness of
Gods spirit/soul inside them.



10: Can you explain the existence of dinosaurs
and neanderthals? Humans never interacted with
dinosaurs or there would be evidence. If God
made all the animals for humans, then what's
the point of animals that humans never encountered?
If we are indeed made in God's image, then were the
very similar looking neanderthals a mistake?

Do you think that it is possible that maybe satan
tried his hand at creating things because he wanted
to prove to God that he could create things to? After
all, isn't this the reason why satan rebelled in heaven
because he thought himself equal to God, if not higher.

Maybe neanderthals were his attempt to create a
human race but since he isn't God, he screwed it up.

[Tangri]

38: The 66 books of the Bible were written
by 40 different men over a period of
1600 years with multiple threads of
unified themes that span cover to cover.

My question is: would you not agree that
in contrast to the Bible, that the Qur'an
is a jumble of disjointed material, without
order, continuity or unity of any kind?

I browsed through the Quran for the first time
yesterday. I read maybe 1 to 2 pages of each
chapter, just to familiarize myself with the book
and i found it to be just as you described it.
(In red above)

It made a brief mention of adam being created
out of clay and then it jumped to eve, already created
with no mention of how and then it went way off to
something else totally different.

The whole book was that way.


2: If human's were made in God's image,
then does God have any of the following:
nose, teeth, lungs, nipples, penis? And
what would he use them for? What color
is his skin?

I used to think the same thing but what i think
this means is the mankind had the likeness of
Gods spirit/soul inside them.



10: Can you explain the existence of dinosaurs
and neanderthals? Humans never interacted with
dinosaurs or there would be evidence. If God
made all the animals for humans, then what's
the point of animals that humans never encountered?
If we are indeed made in God's image, then were the
very similar looking neanderthals a mistake?

Do you think that it is possible that maybe satan
tried his hand at creating things because he wanted
to prove to God that he could create things to? After
all, isn't this the reason why satan rebelled in heaven
because he thought himself equal to God, if not higher.

Maybe neanderthals were his attempt to create a
human race but since he isn't God, he screwed it up.

My humble personal Opinion is , to tread all religions at same level. They came to human society from some higher civilizations to cope together. but unfortunately survivor instinct was obstacle on it's way always.

Love and Peace