How to rescue a dying friend from a hospital??

[Kabaraz]

This is a delicate and urgent situation.

A friend who I met through my website has a sister who is currently dying in a hospital. She has been degenerating rapidly since being taken there. He is new to alternative medicine and knows very little. He is trying to get them to feed her Youngevity supplements, at least, but they refuse. His sister absolutely trusts the doctors/nurses of this mainstream hospital, and his sister's daughter (who is watching after her) is slightly skeptical but is completely ignorant to anything beyond the mainstream.

I asked my friend to find out what they're feeding her to keep her alive. They're feeding her now through a feed-tube to her stomach a horrible, unspeakable concoction of GMO-Corn derived synthetic vitamins, minerals, sugars, and GMO oils. It's absolutely awful. They're just flat out killing her while keeping her just barely alive - extracting maximum profit.

She's now suffering with pneumonia, IBS, stomach problems, god-knows what else. She's so drugged up on morphine that she can't comprehend what's going on anymore.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this woman OUT of the hospital and into competent hands? In fact, she just needs to get out of there and into an environment that allows some interference by my friend, who can at the very least juice fresh vegetables/fruits for her and give her supplements which can help her body heal and regenerate.

Please, anyone with experience or ideas, share them. I cannot find answers online and I am only 25 years old, I don't have a hell of a lot of experience with hospitals.

[Tony]

Dear Kabaraz,

I am not a medical person.

You have wonderful intentions, but your friend's sister is very ill and needs help. She is probably in the best place for all that is going on with her.
The medical profession are not all demons!

At the moment is sounds like they have to get food into her. When she is recuperating fresh food will obviously help.

Unless you can take total responsibility for her, by taking her out of hospital, there is not much you can do...but pray for her.
Do you have people around you that have medical knowledge, of what could be done for her?

My wife's mother had a tube inserted to get nutrients in to her, and it helped.

Don't worry too much, just be a support to your friend. When she is more stable then you can whisk her out and care for her.
Is she getting worse? If, (unfortunately) nothing can be done for her, and she is actually dying, then she can die at home.

But please don't be over taken by all the crazy stuff on forums.

I am sure the hospital are doing their best.

Love,
Tony

[bennycog]

i am sorry this is happennig to your mates sister.. and i hope that he can convince them..
did she sign any waivers before she went into hospital? did she say who gets to make the decisions while she is unable to do them herself?
because i think there would be a clause there somewhere that lets them have their way no matter what you try to do..
the paperwork and lawyers are on their side.. and this is true for anything with corporations involved..
just want to say i have lots of love to give and some will be going her way..

[Rollo]

I'm really sorry to hear about your friend's sister. I can't help much with hospital issue but I will send my support to her.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Strength to her, you and her loved ones, hope this works out well.

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Kabaraz

Firstly, I must say how wonderful it is to hear how much you care for another person, and how strongly you want to help this lady.

But. I wonder if there is an underlying medical condition you haven't mentioned (or are unaware of): morphine and intravenous feeding would indicate that. Incidentally, I cared for someone who had a feeding tube fitted for two years and it enabled her to live for two more years once she was unable to eat by mouth - don't knock it! Lots of people are able to lead happy and healthy lives with a PEG!)

I understand completely about your feelings that hospitals are hostile environments, not conducive to the healing process. But you need to really understand this lady's illness, her physical and mental needs, her care requirements...what do you mean by "getting her into competent hands?" I was so desperate to get my mother our of hospital when she was ill that we brought her home for the weekend - and realised the magnitude of what we had done when she fell in the middle of the night and we were physically unable to lift her to put her back into bed. Taking on the role of carer is a huge responsibility, and good intentions are not enough to keep that person safe.

I live in the UK, so can't comment on the practicalities: when I visited my mother-in-law in hospital, I used to take in nourishing food that she would enjoy to help the healing process. Spinach soup, fresh fruit juices, live yogurt, vitamins etc etc. Can't you do that? Can your friend eat by mouth, even though she has a PEG?

I know that this viewpoint may not be what you want to hear. It's so hard, when overwhelmed by emotions and facing an unknown and unchartered situation, to keep a clear head, so I'm just trying to do that on your behalf. Please do PM me if you want to talk anything through.

Love
Kathie

[eileenrose]

This is a delicate and urgent situation.

A friend who I met through my website has a sister who is currently dying in a hospital. She has been degenerating rapidly since being taken there. He is new to alternative medicine and knows very little. He is trying to get them to feed her Youngevity supplements, at least, but they refuse. His sister absolutely trusts the doctors/nurses of this mainstream hospital, and his sister's daughter (who is watching after her) is slightly skeptical but is completely ignorant to anything beyond the mainstream.

I asked my friend to find out what they're feeding her to keep her alive. They're feeding her now through a feed-tube to her stomach a horrible, unspeakable concoction of GMO-Corn derived synthetic vitamins, minerals, sugars, and GMO oils. It's absolutely awful. They're just flat out killing her while keeping her just barely alive - extracting maximum profit.

She's now suffering with pneumonia, IBS, stomach problems, god-knows what else. She's so drugged up on morphine that she can't comprehend what's going on anymore.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this woman OUT of the hospital and into competent hands? In fact, she just needs to get out of there and into an environment that allows some interference by my friend, who can at the very least juice fresh vegetables/fruits for her and give her supplements which can help her body heal and regenerate.

Please, anyone with experience or ideas, share them. I cannot find answers online and I am only 25 years old, I don't have a hell of a lot of experience with hospitals.

OK, first two issues, one is your age. You don't have experience in care giving I take it (I am assuming from the age given). So is there anyone in your immediate family that does or can you afford to hire someone (again...at your age there are usually income issues as well).

The second major issue is the pneumonia (beside the fact we don't know what she is degenerating or went to the hospital in the first place). I don't have an alternative cure for it. It probably exists. But for now, let the hospital treat it. She could get well in a couple of days with a Vitamin C intravenous drip....but hospitals here require someone ask ahead of time for such and provide doctor approve paperwork (or so I've read...havn't tried this). So you would need to find an advocate. Trying to find a free one is again a major challenge and one the hospital will let in is the other (maybe someone else can add to this).

Feeding her supplements on a bad digestive system is a waste of time. Doubtful they can get through the IBS anyway (if it is needing treatment currently).

So I let what they are feeding her go. Right now it isn't relevant (to keeping her alive). And I wouldn't let her out of the hospital till the infection is gone...no matter how else they are negatively affecting her.

People don't usually terminate on IBS, and stomach issues (generally). They just are in lots of pain and may need surgery if it has been left untreated. Then they will have new issues to deal with....but still be alive (might have to drink their food afterwards though....or so I have heard...at least once).

That is all I have from the little given. I am not a medical doctor and miss quite a lot. And on the other hand, I can help in ways not known to medically certified pharmaceutically trained people (they really are little more than drug reps these days...unless you get an old timer).

If you PM me I can give some alternative solutions that are outside the box.

--
ps: Keep at it so you can learn what you need to for the next time (arn't there always). And don't forget, befriending doctors/nurses is a good idea (even if you disagree with their tactics).

And on a side note, you are a little too invested in outcome.
Sometimes fate needs to happen. Otherwise if just keeps happening to the person anyway.

The trick is do what you can, but don't go beyond what is needed. It is quite the balancing act I know. But again, something useful for you to learn (and perhaps...this will also bring into view the fact you like alternative medicine....ever think of getting into it permanently? You sound like you would be good at it...ie. interested).

[Lifebringer]

If she writes a living will while she still has her faculties and has a lawyer present when she signs, then the hospital cannot go against her wishes. Have her specify if the hospice care can only give her nurtrients from a feeding tube to allow her release with pain medications, to use more softer and natural nutrients and care for life. If this is done, it will go to the chain of command and end this misery of pharma unnatural care. Even the family MUST honor her wishes.

If she tells them she wishes to pass at home among family, then you really have a chance to help her.

Good luck, tell your family and friends what your wishes are and what type of treatment you want for your care. They must honor it. If Jehovah's Witness can keep their people from being poisoned, then so can American citizens.

[scarletfire]

I'm truly sorry to hear about this ordeal. Much love and peaceful vibes to her!

Other than vibes I can offer some answers to your questions as I'm a nurse and work at a mainstream hospital. First of all I'd like to point out, as Tarka did that modern mainstream medicine isn't completely evil...not to say that it's all good, it is was it is, nothing more nothing less. If u have specific questions about her condition/meds/nutrition or day to day hospital routine I will do my best to answer them ( u can pm questions ). From what u said above it sounds like the tube feedings/IV nutrition is being used because she is gonna need a high amt of calories that her fragile gastric system can process (bowel/ibs prob). This nutrition may be IV if there is a worry about the gastric process as lots of folks who have gastric problems end up with pneumonia. IV nutrition is mixed in pharmacy on a daily basis and totally rests the bowel while the tube feeding is kinda like ensure or meal replacements given at controlled rate. Brand is on back of bottle and can be easily researched.

As for "breaking" her outta the hospital.... May not be a bad idea depending on what kind of place she is at, patients or their representatives always have the right to request transfer or leave altogether on an AMA basis (against med advice which gives insurance an excuse not to pay...fair warning. It would be a good idea for your pal to hang out for a day or so to have questions answered by the doc... Who runs the show. Supplements CAN be given if the doc orders it to be given, if it were me and I wanted my family to receive supplements I would make my case to the doc, research in hand and beg him to order it. Also, one more thing.... If she is in fact dying... Hospice is a great service and goal can be changed to palliative so that individual makes death transition with dignity. Keep in mind that mainstream medical folks honestly think the holistic "supplements" are nothing more than snake oil so if u believe in the supplements then be prepared to make a smart research based argument. Docs and nurses aren't all bad, nurses JOB is to advocate for the patient and act as a middleman so utilize her/him and ask questions, write things down and keep chins up.

[Lifebringer]

She needs natural homemade soups without preservatives in them. Fresh produce blended in a blender and liquid vitamins they give babies like Tryvesol to make it easier for digestion. If she suffers from ulcers from medication give her pure aloe in liquid form. They have the aloe drinks now on the shelf with natural pieces of the aloe in it. I suggest that or just plain off the leaf.

I suffered through IBS in 99 and used the aloe to stop pain and naturally increasing strength of the cell. Also raw clove of garlic to build her immune fighting capabilities. It's the body's natural antibiotic.

I was in pain after a uterine tumor removal operation and had those stomach ulcers. Well I HAD to use the aloe. The hospital released me without considering the medication they gave me that flared up my ulcers, and the pain was masked by the medicine from the surgery so I didn't feel it for 24hr after release. Such pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I remembered what I learned on the only island vacation I ever had that the aloe restores cells healthy and kills cancerous bacteria and virus in the cells without harming the healthy ones.

I sent my nephew to the store and he came back with PURE ALOE VERA juice and I drank it straight out the bottle, about two good gulps.(taste lemony) and in 2 minutes the pain was gone. I promise you, this doesn't have to be. I have lived with diverticulitis and IBS for the last 12 years and these natural remedies work. Also tell her a glass of prune juice once a weak will keep here regular and soft to keep Irritable Bowel Syndrome at bay and pain free.
Don't forget the lawyer and the living will, then she will have control of her wishes and body/care.
Don't know if she's a pot smoker, but IBS is bought on by excessive acid production from stress. Pot mellows the person out after a stressful day and allows the body to relax, even the the mind has not.

Move her to a medical marijuana state for the natural treatments that may include pot.

[ghostrider]

Find some MMS , a cure invented by Jim Humble, it has cured lots of illness. Definitely be careful of western medicine it makes things worse, they prolong illness, eastern medicine heals illness. best wishes. It's worth a try IMO.

[Kabaraz]

I would like to respond to each of your posts individually but let me make this easier on myself.

I've taken bits of everyone's advice and it has helped me form a more coherent picture of what to do next. Thank you everyone very much, I will also try to channel your good intentions towards my friend and his family :]

[Bill Ryan]

The medical profession are not all demons!


True. But they're not always competent, or knowledgable outside of their pharmacological paradigm.

To add more, they know absolutely nothing (zero!) of energy medicine -- Reiki, radionics, acupuncture, homeopathy, Rife therapy, to name just a few of many modalities -- and dismiss out of hand remedies such as Amazon Black Salve, Essiac, or MMS as quackery, despite literally tens of thousands of anecdotal case histories that testify to extraordinary cures.

[Mike]

The medical profession are not all demons!


True. But they're not always competent, or knowledgable outside of their pharmacological paradigm.

To add more, they know absolutely nothing (zero!) of energy medicine -- Reiki, radionics, acupuncture, homeopathy, Rife therapy, to name just a few of many modalities -- and dismiss out of hand remedies such as Amazon Black Salve, Essiac, or MMS as quackery, despite literally tens of thousands of anecdotal case histories that testify to extraordinary cures.



i've seen more docs than i can count over the last 6-7yrs. many are well-intentioned, but this is not enough. it is almost comically ironic that the small percentage of men and women who are disciplined and intelligent enough to become md's have so little common sense when it comes to creating health. very few know how to truly heal or create health; most only know how to use pharmaceuticals and surgery to treat or "manage disease", an Orwellian phrase if i ever heard one.

i had blood drawn and sent to Wales not too long ago, to confirm my suspicion of mitichondrial disorder(there is a wonderful doctor there, Sarah Myhill, who has been something of a pioneer in the field of mitochondrial health.) she mailed a write-up to me and one to my physician. i went to see my physician shortly after he recieved the write-up, and watching him read the thing might have been hilarious had i not had so much riding on it. his face was scrunched up the entire time, and it looked as if he were trying to remember his old high school locker combination or something. he was borderline exasperated. when he was done, he said: "Mike, this stuff is so esoteric and confusing that..." and then i tuned him out. it was actually quite simple; it just happened to be contrary to everything he was taught in medical school.

at the end of the appointment he patted me on the back and wished me luck. that pat on the back cost me 75 bucks.

[ThePythonicCow]

at the end of the appointment he patted me on the back and wished me luck. that pat on the back cost me 75 bucks.
Ya got off cheap, ya lucky dog :).

Many such pats cost the patient their health and their fortunes.

I quit going to such doctors myself, when one of them prescribed some statins to me five years ago now. I looked up statins on the web that evening, and politely called his office the next day to cancel my next appointment, saying "I'd reschedule when I could."

I still have that unopened bottle of statin pills, that I keep as a souvenir .

The capacity of the human mind, even the best of them, to put on blinders is rather remarkable (and a bit scary, seeing as I'm equipped with one human mind myself.) Consider for example the majority of American dentists who still install mercury fillings in the mouths of their patients, family and colleagues. Just one of so many examples ...

[Mike]

:)

at the end of the appointment he patted me on the back and wished me luck. that pat on the back cost me 75 bucks.
Ya got off cheap, ya lucky dog :).

Many such pats cost the patient their health and their fortunes.

I quit going to such doctors myself, when one of them prescribed some statins to me five years ago now. I looked up statins on the web that evening, and politely called his office the next day to cancel my next appointment, saying "I'd reschedule when I could."

I still have that unopened bottle of statin pills, that I keep as a souvenir .

The capacity of the human mind, even the best of them, to put on blinders is rather remarkable (and a bit scary, seeing as I'm equipped with one human mind myself.) Consider for example the majority of American dentists who still install mercury fillings in the mouths of their patients, family and colleagues. Just one of so many examples ...



got off cheap? you're probably right. ha!

i'll never forget: my first trip to the hospital, i was sucking oxygen from that damn mask in the back of that stuffy ambulance, and i looked in the corner and saw the coq10 i'd just started taking (unbeknownst to me, the paramedics actually took my supplements with them , for reasons i'm still not clear on...perhaps thinking they were responsible for my condition...how frickin ironic, eh?;)) they were only 5 feet away from me or so, but seemed miles from my reach...and though i was way too mentally muddled to untangle all the symbolism at that moment, i was aware enough to crack half a smile:)

those supplements eventually saved my life. funnily enough, like you i kept that particular bottle of coq10 as a souvenir: Jarrow brand, gelcaps. 100mg. a 60 count.

[Kabaraz]

Just an update, the dying 63 year old woman I am referring to here has a C-Diff infection and this essentially is what's killing her, along with pneumonia. She has lost a ton of weight and has gotten down to 65 pounds. C-diff infections are acquired in hospitals, and millions die every year from these infections inside hospitals. Her body is overrun by harmful microorganisms.
This is what my friend, a nurse who works in oncology at a hospital had to say about this:

"She must have it really bad to be dying from it? How old is she? C-diff doesn't usually kill younger people, just the old and really immunocompromised. Well as you know C-diff is nosocomial (hospital acquired) opportunistic infection caused by being on antibiotics. What was she on antibiotics for? She needs big time PROBIOTICS! Would be really cool if he could put kefir made with raw cow or goat's milk in her feeding tube. So all the friendly bacteria in her G.I. tract was killed from the antibiotics and then the harmful bacteria were able to proliferate freely and she got C-diff. The weird thing is that what do they use to treat C-diff but another antibiotic Vancomycin and flagyl!!!!!!!!! See this is exactly what I was talking about, it's all so Machiavellian!"

Apparently they have not fed her anything except the GMO synthetic fluid made by Nestle through the feed tube. They have been giving her antibiotics on top of more antibiotics, on top of medications upon more medications to control every aspect of her body (blood pressure, etc).. as you all have summed up well, there is no healing. Only suppression (drugs). Pharmacology by its nature is all about suppression of various processes and organisms within the body, it is not about healing.

The nurses/doctors will not take my friend seriously.

If there is a doctor here who would be willing to give me their phone number, I could connect you with my friend Dan and maybe you could potentially talk to a nurse or doctor at the hospital and convince them to administer probiotics or something. I know it's a lot to ask.. but it might save a life.

I don't know if there's anything else that could be done, they will not listen to a layperson. Sorry if this post if a burden on anyone.

[Mike]

Kabaraz, i've refrained from posting advice here cuz i have absolutely no clue how to proceed in a situation like this.

however, i have worked in hospitals, and hospitals being what they are (not prisons) patients can leave whenever they damn well please. it will be heavily discouraged, but the patient must find the strength to not crumble under the pressure of the docs. taking emotion out if it...in the final analysis, if she is dying there in the hospital, what does she have to lose by trying something else? you yourself could give her the probiotics by simply bringing them to the hospital, no? i understand the slippery slope this will put you on, but i'm just thinking out loud here.

is she cognizant enough to make such decisions?

i'll keep you both in my prayers. best of luck to you, mate.

[Kabaraz]

Unfortunately I live too far away to drive down there or I would have done so, definitely.

It sounds like she isn't very cognizant, she's sort of neither here nor there. And when she WAS cognizant, she had 100% trust in what the hospital decided. She had given herself over to their authority completely.

She has nothing to do lose but would never leave the hospital, by the sound of it.

[Mike]

we unfortunately cannot override the autonomy of another human spirit. her decision is her decision. i hope you can take some comfort in realizing you're doing all you possibly can for your friend.

i have great empathy for your situation, my friend...

[wynderer]

hi Kabaraz -- not to make light of such a horrible situation -- but i watched the movie 'Fan Boys' today, in which 3 guys rescue their dying-from-cancer buddy from the hospital by charging thru the corridors w/him on a wheelchair

i hope the legal advice helped

[mahalall]

Sorry to hear of the distress,

Dying processes, Hospital environments and medical interventions do appear shocking at times,

Questioning motives and energies is healthy and necessary, remembering though the majority of staff in hospitals do do their best within their knowledge framework.

Certainly the nutritional supplements given in hospital would be perceived as dead food within some circles and seen as not designed to support the subtle nature of health. Putting to one side our dietary perceptions the best nutrition we can give is to be present and to give our highest regard (observations in clinical practise supports this adjunct as aiding best outcomes)

Providing continuation of care in the community is possible but for it to be successful a thorough assessment plan has to be undertaken (understandably because the hospital and clinicians do have a duty of care or cynically viewed do not want to be sued for neglect);

One has to ask;
Does the person at the centre of this want it? does the Next of Kin-partner family want this, if they do-what are their capabilities-this is not to judge but to see what services can best serve their needs in the community, then one has to look at what community services are available,
If seriously considering community care of a poorly/dying relative one would do best to communicate with the nurse manage-on the unit/ward and hospital discharge team/patient liaison department and ask for a mulitdisclipinary meeting to support continuation of care in the community.

[Tarka the Duck]

Thanks for the update, Kabaraz.

I don't think many on this forum would deny the power of complementary/alternative therapies: You are clearly aware of their benefits. I've used many of these throughout my life, and to be honest, I tend to view them as a way to maintain the health of my body.

But, when it comes to life-threatening illnesses - such as the case of the lady, whose physical condition sounds extremely poor - my personal view is it's horses for courses.

Conventional medical treatment saved my life 28 years and since then, I have been using complementary medicine to try and avoid being in such a situation again. Personally, when it comes to health matters, I think it's vital to keep all doors open...

[wynderer]

i did editorial proofreading for 5 years for WB Saunders, one of our top medical publishers at the time [Rupert Murdoch bought it out just before i quit -- it may have gone downhill since] -- i read 'gold standard' books in various fields, 'cutting -edge' books, & many journal articles

this confirmed my desire to stay as far away from hospitals & docs as possible

also, when doing the proofreading , i learned that nurses are vastly more knowledgeable than docs, save way more lives than docs, & thus are grossly underpaid

[Tony]

We sometimes (most of the time) find it difficult to take the middle road.
The extremes seems more exciting!

We all have our fads, but we cannot generalise what is right for others. There is common sense, and there is what an individual needs....and now we have our fad.

Food, natural food is not only nourishment it is medicine. Ancient humans were stronger and more robust than we are today, because their food was simple (they lived of the fat of the land), had no electronic equipment to zap their genitals, and exercised naturally.
They also had little stress..apart from dodging the local mammoths!

So a truly healthy diet meant a healthy life...apart from the local jungle residents who saw you as dinner!

Food is medicine. However most people today, have turned to a processed diet from the local corporate jungle residents...who also see us as dinner. This new diet makes us ill together with our electronic life style.

Natural medicine is food...stuff that grows.
Now, because of our unnatural diet, life styles and weaker immune systems, we now have unnatural medicine - alternative medicines from the pharmaceutical companies.
This can have nasty side effects, but not always!

This is where you can get overly confused. There is a level of ill health that natural food can bring the body back to natural health. But then we may over step this mark and find the body becomes very ill. A healthy diet and supplements can still help, but we may need something stronger- because of our electronic life styles.

The thing we must not forget, is that all through the ages there are people who care- most medical staff do care! Some of the information they receive maybe suspect, but they do care.

So there are times when we do need their help and support. I have just had two laser treatments on my eye, without it I would be blind in that eye, and I am very grateful- I'm sure you have had occasions to be grateful as well!

So, we need a balanced view, and note what is available to us at any given moment.

The problem with forums is that they can get whipped up into a froth, and loose common sense. There are lots of creative health devices that can help us, but you are still not going to live forever.

There comes a time to just let go, this is Tony Nicklinson time (from another post).

I do not understand the government or the legal people, either they are incompetent or do not care or something worse. They are definitely not on the side of compassion.

Tony has the right choose his treatment and time to leave!


Tony

[geofffxdwg]

I feel for you because I just went through the same thing last March.Five months later its still an ugly mess.The closer my friend was to dying the harder they make it.The last 3 days of his life they even posted a nurse at the door to his room taking down names of those who came to visit.They also moved him to this room which was directly across from the nurses station where no less than 6 people were facing his room at all times.I wish I had an answer for you but the only one I have is "Never to have brought her there in the first place" which does you no good.The American Murderers Association is set up to do just that.They not only murder you but it has to be a slow painful death.They want you to die without dignity and most of all they want your assets everything they want your kids college tuition.They know its their because they created the American dream.When a person dies the hospital already has a lean on that persons property before the body is moved.Many other parties or sharks may also smell the chum and start circling but the hospital always gets paid first and they can charge what ever price they want.I'm sorry I know what you are going through right now and I know this is not good news for you but its the way it is.Understand that many doctors and nurses are very good people and they want to heal people but the are black mailed into doing this because if they don't they will be fired and they will be barred from the AMA for life.The whole industry world wide including the Pharmaceutical industry is controlled by the Rockefeller crime syndicate.You being a member of Avalon know exactly what I'm saying.Just have someone she loves be with her as much as possible.Sorry....Geoff PS if this effects you like it has me and you want to perhaps help some one close to you in the future you should read "Murder By Injection" by Eustace Mullins

[grannyfranny100]

Unfortunately we are all in a bind. First: traditional allopathic medical care is the only thing covered by most health care plans or medicare and who has the money to pay for anything else. Two: finding alternative partitioners is hard to do since they can't advertise what they can do unless they want to be run out of business by the government enforcement arm of the AMA. Sure would like to find a worldwide handbook of alternative practitioners. One keeps reading of more and more people going out of the US because they can get heart transplants or cancer treatment including airfare cheaper than they can in the US. But generally one is too far gone by the time one needs to research such options.

Bill Ryan is living in a country with many shamanistic healers but that's a word of mouth thing. Too bad there isn't a major clinic offering a batch of services by world wide practitioners. But you know what big pharma would do: stop supplying their drugs to traditional hospitals throughout the country. Any one have a handbook of secret practitioners that Rockefeller uses?

[geofffxdwg]

Yes you are very correct.Right now in the states there are only two states that I know of with alternate practitioners legally healing people and thats Nevada and New Mexico.As you mentioned they also know their days are numbered and although they are legally helping people they still keep a very low profile.As I mentioned in an unrelated thread the global elite inbred inbreds always and I mean always come up with ways of having us pay out of or pockets the funding necessary for them to kill us and they usually always earn massive profits as well.In this case the AMA's army of thugs in the form of FBI,SWAT,Police or whatever and they need all the help they can get because those alternative practitioners are a mean ugly bunch.

[Gekko]

I'm no more older or wiser in this regard, but your friend might consider transferring her to another hospital if the one she's at is less than caring, proactive, or accommodating. There can be a league of difference between hospitals. My father came down with viral encephalitis in 2003. The first hospital he was taken to could not diagnose him properly and did little to improve his condition. My mother was able to get him transferred to a more reputable hospital (Brigham and Womens in Boston) where he was finally diagnosed and treated. A week later he came home and spent time recuperating in bed. Unfortunately he ignored the direction of the physicians to walk around frequently and developed a blood clot in his leg. When taken to a nearby hospital, once again they could not figure out what was wrong with him. When my mom got him back to Brigham and Womens, they almost immediately knew what was going on and performed open-heart surgery. They removed the now-detached clot just as it was going to enter his lung (a pulmonary embolism). The difference between hospitals saved his life twice within a one-month period. They worked within the same, perhaps faulty medical 'paradigm' for lack of a better word, but the difference in passion and experience between the doctors was enough. Just something to consider.