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risveglio
25th August 2011, 16:52
I don't see this Target. The message he speaks is one we have not seen or heard in generations. If he is just controlled opposition, then I don't get it because if his message wins out, they lose. Even if he does what BO did and go back on every promise. It is the message that matters, not the man.

kathymarie
25th August 2011, 17:04
...oh, TargeT...I hope you're wrong about this. Although every time I've voted in the last couple of decades I feel like I'm always weighing between the lesser of two evils. Again, I hope you're wrong about Ron Paul...but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right on the money. It stands to reason in this controlled world, that we'd be given someone saying the things we want to hear....

robinr1
25th August 2011, 17:54
have u ever examined his 30 plus year voting record? u claim hes controlled oposition and working for the dark side....but u offer zero proof and zero tangible evidence.


horribly misleading and untrue post imo






It doesn't get any better than this, Risveglio! I'd say Americans ARE waking up!

waking up to what though?

Controlled opisition?

I was die hard RP supporter back in 2008, but then I did a little deeper looking....

Now I've completely given up on the political scene, Ron Paul is (IMO) controlled oposition, he is the gate keeper to 9/11 truth & he is holding the gate firmly shut... he is the steam release valve that is needed in a society of dichotomy where one side is too heavily represented, or rather, the mask of the "two sides" that we have to pick from is slipping, so now we get RP..

Same thing happened in england back when they went to a 3 party system & look where they are now.

Plus he fits the mold (background wise)... am I wrong, check into it and see for yourself.

TargeT
25th August 2011, 18:27
have u ever examined his 30 plus year voting record? u claim hes controlled oposition and working for the dark side....but u offer zero proof and zero tangible evidence.


horribly misleading and untrue post imo


with information like this nothing I said would convince you, you need to look into this for yourself or ignore it. either is fine with me.

I'm fairly certained I stated this is IMO (In My Opinion).

I have closely tracked his 30 year record & feel that it only lends more strength to my opinion, I was a RP fanatic from 2006-2009. Joined the meet up groups, campaigned for him (yeah I acctually commited MY TIME to this, which bespeaks my level of supportiveness & how strongly I felt on the topic) I voted for him, I pushed him as hard as was allowed, I had the stickers, the yard signs & a completely different mentality than I have now.

If nothing else you should be aware that thoughts such as mine exsist.



...oh, TargeT...I hope you're wrong about this. Although every time I've voted in the last couple of decades I feel like I'm always weighing between the lesser of two evils. Again, I hope you're wrong about Ron Paul...but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right on the money. It stands to reason in this controlled world, that we'd be given someone saying the things we want to hear....

Nothing makes me sadder, honestly; I do not revel in this information. RP is/was everything I though this country needed.

but in studying universal duality patterns start to imerge it took me a long time to get here & I would NOT have been receptive to this message back in my supportive days (infact I remember some whisperings that he was a masonic patsy & I thought "Impossible!" and never gave it another thought... )


check out the video "Athene's Theory of Everything" on youtube; this describes why idea's that are very contrary to ones you currently hold will be (sometimes violently) opposed due to the basic wiring of our brain.

This is the reason I won't get into "proving" this idea, you either are receptive and find it for your self or you'll go into instinctive defense mode & not be receptive to new ideas.

risveglio
25th August 2011, 18:33
Please enlighten us TargeT. I don't see any problems with his record.

TargeT
25th August 2011, 18:37
WTF?.....:nono: What a :loco: Comment..! Perhaps this is more to your liking TargeT..?

[Mod-edit: flashing image of former Alaska governor Sarah Palin removed - too dang annoying. -Paul.]
I live in Wasilla & know that woman; she is a cheerleader that never grew up, I aplaud her leverage of the "celebrity" fascination that this sad nation is so obsessed with; but in no way support her as someone that should be in charge of more than a ketchup packet (and even then I'd have someone watch her).


I edited my post above, please read for answers to the questions that followed it.


You'll not find me giving much thought to politics; untill I see some evidence that it's not just a distraction I will not spend my mental efforts on that game.

I'm "opting out".


Please enlighten us TargeT. I don't see any problems with his record.

The true problem isn't (just) in the object your measuring, its the stick you are measuring with that is flawed.. (no judgement or negativeity in any of my comments, I wish I had this info back in 2006, though I do not doubt I would have laughed at me back then; reguardless I feel compeled to share what I have gained, if it resonates go with it, if not then I'm just some random internet voice, easily ignored).

robinr1
25th August 2011, 18:46
u state u are not giving much thought to politics....yet u claim a man with a 30 year voting record of following the constitution.....small government principals, the most anti war politician imo.......and is agianst the unconstitutional war on drugs , patriot act, and tas rapings is controlled oposition....

hmmmm somthing doesnt quite add up.

can u please give me one example of his voting not matching his spoken ideals for 30 years.

jackovesk
25th August 2011, 18:46
...oh, TargeT...I hope you're wrong about this. Although every time I've voted in the last couple of decades I feel like I'm always weighing between the lesser of two evils. Again, I hope you're wrong about Ron Paul...but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right on the money. It stands to reason in this controlled world, that we'd be given someone saying the things we want to hear....

IMHO TargeT is 'Dead Wrong' on this kathymarie..!

NO NEED to listen to anyone else on whether or not Ron Paul is a Man-of-Honor...

You only need to follow your own Intuition...

TargeT
25th August 2011, 18:50
You only need to follow your own Intuition...

YES!
and I'll add (as my signature says) question EVERYTHING, ALWAYS (especialy what you "know" as "knowing" is the quickest way to stop learning and close oneself off from "knoweldge")


can u please give me one example of his voting not matching his spoken ideals for 30 years.

I'm not sure how to approach this, if you were of a mentality that the ENTIRE POLITICAL SYSTEM is a distraction and game of control; why would you look to that same system to prove a point (see my measuring stick comment).

this is just my conclusion, I now hold beliefs that 2 years ago I would have thought crazy. so grain of salt and all that ;)

risveglio
25th August 2011, 18:57
The true problem isn't (just) in the object your measuring, its the stick you are measuring with that is flawed.. (no judgement or negativeity in any of my comments, I wish I had this info back in 2006, though I do not doubt I would have laughed at me back then; reguardless I feel compeled to share what I have gained, if it resonates go with it, if not then I'm just some random internet voice, easily ignored).

I still don't see what you have "shared"

robinr1
25th August 2011, 18:58
u may entirely be right that most politicians and politics in general may be a distraction and a game of control as u put it.

that doesnt mean that every member of congress is in on it......ron paul def is not. his 30 year voting record speaks for itself.

TargeT
25th August 2011, 19:08
u may entirely be right that most politicians and politics in general may be a distraction and a game of control as u put it.

that doesnt mean that every member of congress is in on it......ron paul def is not. his 30 year voting record speaks for itself.

I can see I'm not explaining my concepts well; you are right, his voting record cannot be denied, in the system that he functions in he is the perfect underdog, the ulitmate anti-establishment catch all for the disillusioned conservative base (notice the democrats have no such need for one of these, they modivate through emotion & once you lose that emotion and come back to reality you become a conservative, and once the luster wears off that you think even MORE conservatively (because obviously government of any substantial size is bad) and then you come to liberitarianism, Ron Paul) at each of these steps a person can be completely halted & happy or continue moving through as they become disillusioned. the problem is your still in the same system; you will continualy be disapointed & continualy offered hope that "next time" it's going to be "right".

I'm not talking some grand meeting of people in dark robes (though there most likely is something like that going on at some level) or anything to be "in on" perse.. this goes to a much deeper topic I supose.

I invite you to read the thread called "a question on lithium" on this forum ( http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17872-The-Question-of-Lithium--Alchemy-dimensions-shapeshifters-aliens-existence-reality..- ) if you haven't reached this topic yet in your information gathering searches, you eventualy will, hopefully you'll take this as a "jump start"; or find it at your own pace.

Honestly I'm just trying to be helpful, not contrarian or start an argument, best of luck everyone; we truely are living hte chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".



I still don't see what you have "shared"

hopefully a different perspective an the modivation to question preconcived notions (which never seem to be a good thing) no matter where they exsist.

robinr1
25th August 2011, 19:16
some of what u say makes complete sense...i agree....but it seems if u boil it down to brass tacks u are saying the sysytem is fubar.....so anyone who works within the system is fubar...which i strongly disagree with.

what specifically has ron paul done to truly make u feel hes controlled oposition

also what could he do to prove to u hes not.....and to once again regain ur respect and vote.

thank you

robin

TargeT
25th August 2011, 19:38
some of what u say makes complete sense...i agree....but it seems if u boil it down to brass tacks u are saying the sysytem is fubar.....so anyone who works within the system is fubar...which i strongly disagree with.

what specifically has ron paul done to truly make u feel hes controlled oposition

also what could he do to prove to u hes not.....and to once again regain ur respect and vote.

thank you

robin

ok, forstarters Look up every reference to 9/11 that RP has made, track them chronologically (doesn't matter what you think about the event itself) we are looking for consistancy here; that alone should answer your question.

of course to me that's pulling one cup of water from a lake and saying "see here, this is wet!".

the way your statements are made, your strongly rooted in the current system & having trouble stepping back to view it (my guess here) objectively as a whole.

Here's my question to you:

When has anything the government done NOT further its control over the population, or harm it or expand itself?

Who is your favorite politician, sit down and study their career and see if you still agree, read their campaign speeches, did they follow through (do they ever?) of course RP is the exception here, but WHY is he the exception, & why has he gone NO WHERE for 30 years (he's been doing the exact same thing for 30 years, just now he's getting attention.. doesn't that seem strange to you, why are no other politicians this committed as clearly this path leads to re-election.. which all politicians worry about first).

simple pattern analysis is all that is really needed here, anything else gets you "caught up in the weeds" and you lose the overall picture.

robinr1
25th August 2011, 19:58
he is the exception bc hes a truly honorable great man who has delivered over 4k babies...many of those for free. hes has gone nowhere politically bc he holds viewpoints that are very troubling to most mornic sheep americans.

for example........drug legalization........ending the fed......returining to a sound monetary policy...... ending the entitlement nation we are......ANTI WAR.


These positions arent popular mainstream...and not popular to old white republican primary voters. hence the reason he wont win again this year.



as to why is is finally getting recognition now.......simple. bc what he has been saying for 30 years in coming home to roost.

we as a country are in dire straights and finally people are waking up a bit and saying...hey this ron paul guy predicted all this years ago.maybe hes not so crazy.



When has anything the government done NOT further its control over the population, or harm it or expand itself?



to answer that ? ......never.....the people in control want a one world fascist gov...no doubt.but just saying ron paul is one of them......without giving one logical reason why......kinda makes me wonder.

TargeT
25th August 2011, 20:07
.....the people in control want a one world fascist gov...no doubt.but just saying ron paul is one of them......without giving one logical reason why......kinda makes me wonder.

One last thought on this topic:

You can't have one world government unless you end the Fed.... (I own all of RP's books btw, you'll find them great reads)

Go watch that video, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o (Athene's theory on everything) its facinating and applys to this conversation directly.

I can see this (early topic in the video) is strongly in place here.. you and I are aproaching this conversation from two very different starting points; best of luck!

robinr1
25th August 2011, 20:12
regarding 9/11 sadly 9/11 is a taboo topic for any politician ........id venture a guess 90 percent of americans think 19 muslims with box cutters did 9/11.

how can anyone intelligently discuss a topic where the general populace is so uniformed and downright ignorant.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You can't have one world government unless you end the Fed.... (I own all of RP's books btw, you'll find them great reads



i think the exact opposite is true.


good day..

robin

risveglio
25th August 2011, 20:15
You can't have one world government unless you end the Fed.... (I own all of RP's books btw, you'll find them great reads)

I guess you don't comprehend his books the same way I do. Can you explain how ending the Fed leads to a one world government? Especially if all he does is not end the fed but just legalize competition. I was intrigued for a minute but now I am thinking you are just practicing demagoguery and probably have never read his books or supported him.

Ernie Nemeth
25th August 2011, 20:19
The measuring stick you talk of TargeT, is valid, I think. But I also think that stick has been whittled away over the years. In your country the founding fathers fashioned a new measuring stick, one that measured more fairly between rich and poor. And liberty was its foundation, its premise. Without liberty, the stick is just a piece of wood.

I think Ron Paul speaks from this position. In all the years of listening to him, never have I found call to disagree with him on any fundamental issue. There precious few other politicians on the face of this planet I can say that of.

I agree change can only come if something different is tried - something truly different. Not Obama-style change. Yet Obama never spoke the way Ron Paul does. So why did so many fall for his platform of change-without-substance? At least Ron Paul puts his money where his mouth is.

Besides, Ron Paul is such a good American name.
President Paul.
It has a personal, homey, "my president" kind of sound...

Spiralmind
25th August 2011, 20:23
I have noticed that many RP supporters seem to act as though he is the second coming of Christ. I think we are being led down the garden path. "Problem, Reaction, Solution", anyone?

robinr1
25th August 2011, 20:34
compared to obama the gigantic war mongerer....and the bomb all the brown people for decades neo cons ....yes i would say that ron paul is head and shouders above the rest.


spiralmind......im venturing a guess u arent politically active and think its all a waste?

and if im incorrect what would u recommend politically active americans do to try and change the political culture in america?

thank you

robin

TargeT
25th August 2011, 20:39
I guess you don't comprehend his books the same way I do. Can you explain how ending the Fed leads to a one world government? Especially if all he does is not end the fed but just legalize competition. I was intrigued for a minute but now I am thinking you are just practicing demagoguery and probably have never read his books or supported him.

one world government & one world currency go hand in hand. you cannot have either with out the "fed" dissolving (this is not to say they will go away, simply restructure & go global, since the same people are involved in the central banks of the world (with a few small exceptions (which also happen to be "enemies" of the US... hmm strange coincidence? for fun look up the "bad guys" that we have been fighting for years, cross reference against a list of countries that have privately owned central banks... pattern analysis)



I think Ron Paul speaks from this position. In all the years of listening to him, never have I found call to disagree with him on any fundamental issue. There precious few other politicians on the face of this planet I can say that of.

I agree change can only come if something different is tried - something truly different. Not Obama-style change. Yet Obama never spoke the way Ron Paul does. So why did so many fall for his platform of change-without-substance? At least Ron Paul puts his money where his mouth is.

Besides, Ron Paul is such a good American name.
President Paul.
It has a personal, homey, "my president" kind of sound...

now why does that sound like the perfect description of what I am trying to say he is?

to me everything that has been said here in "defense" of him only underlines my thought.


The video I posted really describes why we are not connecting here, I mean you don't have to agree with me, but the quick move to demonize, marginalize etc.. this is a byproduct of what's described there.


anwhat would u recommend politically active americans do to try and change the political culture in america?

thank you

robin

back when I was active, the phrase "all politics are local" was my mantra... that's what I would have suggested at one time.

You have a very strongly held belief, Spesific neurons and neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine trigger a defensive state when we feel that our thoughts have to be protected from the influence of others. If you are then confronted with a difference in opinion, the chemicals that are released in the brain are the same ones that try to ensure our survival in dangerous situations. In this defensive state, the more primitive part of the brain interferes with rational thinking and the limbic system can knock out most of our working memory, physically causing "narrow mindedness".

ever feel like your talking to a wall when speaking to a political oponent, like they are just waiting for their turn to prove their point?

THIS is why.. (again, watch athene's video for more info, this is a KEY CONCEPT to human interaction)

risveglio
25th August 2011, 20:53
I am just going to drop this conversation with you target. Just like the video you are pushing, you are really just giving us a bunch of fluff. Ron Paul promotes competition in money, which is far from one world currency. As for the video post it as part of its own thread but there are quite a few contradictions in the theory posed in the video.

finally there!!!
25th August 2011, 21:22
im starting to think whoever these tptb are their very clever people surly they have a plan A B C D etc also i dont think you can count time as a factor at this stage,if were to believe a lot of these whistle blowers this plan has been thought out before we were even born. when i look at history i see lots uprising and the likes.and when these things happen the tptb say ok we better give the something to make them think their gonna get change.but lets be honest it never happens.. I always ask myself why dont people who are running for power say ok NO MORE manufacturing guns no more gm foods no more violence pumped into tv no more un-equality and no more money no more rubbing shoulders with people who have wronged the world in so many ways.

risveglio
25th August 2011, 21:35
"NO MORE manufacturing guns no more gm foods no more violence pumped into tv no more un-equality and no more money no more rubbing shoulders with people who have wronged the world in so many ways. "

I don't think this is realistic. Just sounds like a utopian idea that is just not possible. If you stop the manufacturing of guns, it will just go underground and only the criminals will have guns. Plus we had plenty of violence before we had guns. I don't think it is possible to end un-equality and I don't see how we live in a society without money unless you see a global consciousness raise that is probably not meant to happen in this reality.

I would love to stop gm foods or at least make sure they labeled so people can choose not to eat them, that might be possible.

TargeT
25th August 2011, 21:46
im starting to think whoever these tptb are their very clever people surly they have a plan A B C D etc also i dont think you can count time as a factor at this stage,if were to believe a lot of these whistle blowers this plan has been thought out before we were even born. when i look at history i see lots uprising and the likes.and when these things happen the tptb say ok we better give the something to make them think their gonna get change.but lets be honest it never happens.. I always ask myself why dont people who are running for power say ok NO MORE manufacturing guns no more gm foods no more violence pumped into tv no more un-equality and no more money no more rubbing shoulders with people who have wronged the world in so many ways.


very very right on all accounts.

What if this "PTB" had a 5,000 year plan? what if it was a 13,000,000 year plan? time has no meaning to these "people", they work in "sequences" (time is a man made conception, very trapping) if a sequence is not ready to be implemented, it's not implemented; however this does NOT mean there's no plan.. the complexity of this topic exponentially grows as you research it... you'll find yourself bored with the political game after a while, its SO simplistic (and I think they are bored as well, at least it seems like it to me,, who SERIOUSLY falls asleep at a congresional hearing? ).. haha


" unless you see a global consciousness raise that is probably not meant to happen in this reality.

.

The mayan long count calander ends oct 28th of this year.. this is the culmination of 9 waves of conciousness.. this is EXACTLY what a lot of people think will be (or start to be) happening oct 28th,, do you not FEEL the quickening? doesn't it FEEL different right now?

finally there!!!
25th August 2011, 22:10
I don't think this is realistic. Just sounds like a utopian idea that is just not possible. If you stop the manufacturing of guns, it will just go underground and only the criminals will have guns. Plus we had plenty of violence before we had guns. I don't think it is possible to end un-equality and I don't see how we live in a society without money unless you see a global consciousness raise that is probably not meant to happen in this reality.

I would love to stop gm foods or at least make sure they labeled so people can choose not to eat them, that might be possible.

sorry dont know how to quote properly

Why is it not possible???? maybe because if you keep believing its not possible it will never happen so you will always be stuck in yours and the tbtb's reality...Everything is possible if we put our minds to it.
Humans used to say it was impossible to fly but look what happened there.. I know I might sound unrealistic but i have an idea in the same way every inventor has had. And as we all know some ideas become a reality..

risveglio
25th August 2011, 22:27
I'll just bring up the same points that others brought up in the thread about making everything free. This can only happen if everyone in the world agreed to it and followed through with it. I just don't see it happening and I am not sure it is supposed to happen. I think we are put here to work through challenges to grow and to learn from our troubles. I just don't see how this type of society is possible as long as we are in human form.

Spiralmind
25th August 2011, 22:41
compared to obama the gigantic war mongerer....and the bomb all the brown people for decades neo cons ....yes i would say that ron paul is head and shouders above the rest.


spiralmind......im venturing a guess u arent politically active and think its all a waste?

and if im incorrect what would u recommend politically active americans do to try and change the political culture in america?

thank you

robin



You would be incorrect. My suggestion would be to simply stop participating in the system. Take your money out of the big banks, don't go to work, starve the system.
Listen, let's assume RP is elected to office and has all good intentions to turn things around. How much do you really think he will be able to accomplish? The political system is so corrupted and corporate controlled that he wouldn't get very far.

Starving an already crippled system won't take long to break it down, and it has the virtue of being non-violent. A website maybe to use as a starting point:

http://www.unitedwestrike.com/

Oh, and start getting angry.

finally there!!!
25th August 2011, 22:56
I'll just bring up the same points that others brought up in the thread about making everything free. This can only happen if everyone in the world agreed to it and followed through with it. I just don't see it happening and I am not sure it is supposed to happen. I think we are put here to work through challenges to grow and to learn from our troubles. I just don't see how this type of society is possible as long as we are in human form.

I really believe that 95% of the world would agree to it,sure why wouldnt they when you look at how the current system has completely ruined our beautiful planet and corrupted the minds of the people..
I do agree in what you say about working through challenges and learning from our troubles and what iv learnt is that that we need to start all over again.how much more trouble do we all need to see before its to late and we cant save ourselves..I'm quite positive i could gradually wean myself of the system and just do things because i I know they are right and by god if i can can do it anybody can lol

Ilie Pandia
26th August 2011, 00:51
Hm.... a lot of the Ron Paul speeches remind me of Obama speeches *before* he was president.

Boy did he make promises! He got me very enthusiastic and I am not even American. So he was elected and right the next year he forgot all of what he promised.

And now we have Ron Paul, who never held office as president, make big promises and claims, until he gets elected... and then guess what will happen...

As Bill Hicks put it: "He'll get to see the JFK assassination from an angle you've never seen before" :biggrin:

Do you actually think that Ron Paul has any kind of power to change the system that he is using to become president?

(PS: and while at it, I realize this is heated debate, with various strong opinions, but let's try and be polite :rolleyes:)

risveglio
26th August 2011, 01:12
The mayan long count calander ends oct 28th of this year.. this is the culmination of 9 waves of conciousness.. this is EXACTLY what a lot of people think will be (or start to be) happening oct 28th,, do you not FEEL the quickening? doesn't it FEEL different right now?

I have hope but I fear things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before they get any better. I do hope I am wrong.


Hm.... a lot of the Ron Paul speeches remind me of Obama speeches *before* he was president.

Boy did he make promises! He got me very enthusiastic and I am not even American. So he was elected and right the next year he forgot all of what he promised.

And now we have Ron Paul, who never held office as president, make big promises and claims, until he gets elected... and then guess what will happen...

As Bill Hicks put it: "He'll get to see the JFK assassination from an angle you've never seen before" :biggrin:

Do you actually think that Ron Paul has any kind of power to change the system that he is using to become president?

(PS: and while at it, I realize this is heated debate, with various strong opinions, but let's try and be polite :rolleyes:)

This is a valid statement but there are some key differences between Obama and Paul. Obama felt government could be the answer while Paul feels the people are the answer and we need to get government out of the way. I honestly believe that if his message was to win out, the game is over for TPTB even if they have him killed or cloned with a replacement or whatever else is conjured up in these forums. I hold onto hope that this is the last way to do it within the system in a non-violent way but I have been wrong before. I voted for Obama so I have made my share of mistakes.

I think we have a better chance of Ron Paul making a change then we do the greys or the GFL or any other outside alien source helping us, but that is just my opinion.

TargeT
26th August 2011, 01:26
The mayan long count calander ends oct 28th of this year.. this is the culmination of 9 waves of conciousness.. this is EXACTLY what a lot of people think will be (or start to be) happening oct 28th,, do you not FEEL the quickening? doesn't it FEEL different right now?

I have hope but I fear things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before they get any better. I do hope I am wrong.

It's never darker than right before dawn; I think your very right & I don't think much time is left, too many things on the edge of a cliff right now, too many "hot " global issues.




Hm.... a lot of the Ron Paul speeches remind me of Obama speeches *before* he was president.

Boy did he make promises! He got me very enthusiastic and I am not even American. So he was elected and right the next year he forgot all of what he promised.

And now we have Ron Paul, who never held office as president, make big promises and claims, until he gets elected... and then guess what will happen...

As Bill Hicks put it: "He'll get to see the JFK assassination from an angle you've never seen before" :biggrin:

Do you actually think that Ron Paul has any kind of power to change the system that he is using to become president?

(PS: and while at it, I realize this is heated debate, with various strong opinions, but let's try and be polite :rolleyes:)

This is a valid statement but there are some key differences between Obama and Paul. Obama felt government could be the answer while Paul feels the people are the answer and we need to get government out of the way. I honestly believe that if his message was to win out, the game is over for TPTB even if they have him killed or cloned with a replacement or whatever else is conjured up in these forums. I hold onto hope that this is the last way to do it within the system in a non-violent way but I have been wrong before. I voted for Obama so I have made my share of mistakes.

I think we have a better chance of Ron Paul making a change then we do the greys or the GFL or any other outside alien source helping us, but that is just my opinion.

I think if RP does get to be pres, he will turn out completely ineffective with zero support from congress or the senate & if he uses exec. powers he's a hypocrite... or he goes all obama, greenspany on us.. great ****, beautiful ideals, conviction... then they get in power and ... hellow mr hyde.

but that wont happen, its all connected, the person that will get elected already has media support, look to the talking heads, they will let you know... they already chose not to pick paul, he's just there for the frustrated minority that are starting to understand that the government isn't really "there to help"..

risveglio
26th August 2011, 14:00
I think if RP does get to be pres, he will turn out completely ineffective with zero support from congress or the senate & if he uses exec. powers he's a hypocrite... or he goes all obama, greenspany on us.. great ****, beautiful ideals, conviction... then they get in power and ... hellow mr hyde.

but that wont happen, its all connected, the person that will get elected already has media support, look to the talking heads, they will let you know... they already chose not to pick paul, he's just there for the frustrated minority that are starting to understand that the government isn't really "there to help"..

Considering at least 90% of everything Congress has done in the last 40 years has been harmful, doing nothing would be an improvement. But if we are going with the hypothetical that he wins, chances are there would be a lot more small government types winning seats in the house and the senate. Maybe even some GOOOH candidates. And there is nothing hypocritical about using exec orders to remove other executive orders and then having an executive order to remove the ability of a president to create an executive order, which would do wonders for our liberty.

Ernie Nemeth
26th August 2011, 14:06
You know, just getting his ideas out in the mainstream is enough of an accomplishment for our side.

I am tired of filling in the blanks in people's understanding before I can argue with them.

People need to know what is going on and Ron Paul is well down that road.

But of course, once he's in power it's hard to see how he can turn it all around.

Politics, as it is usually played, is of almost no value for what needs to be done.

That can only be accomplished by a grassroots movement like this Site offers and others in the same genre.

giovonni
26th August 2011, 19:54
Well worth the watch - in transforming old mindsets into rethinking our way out of this current economic dilemma.

________________________________________

Written & Directed by Bill Still
http://www.secretofoz.com/


"What's going on with the world's economy?

Foreclosures are everywhere, unemployment is skyrocketing - and this may only be the beginning. Could it be that solutions to the world's economic problems could have been embedded in the most beloved children's story of all time, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"? The yellow brick road (the gold standard), the emerald city of Oz (greenback money), even Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the movie version) were powerful symbols of author L. Frank Baum's belief that the people - not the big banks -- should control the quantity of a nation's money."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHiQMQYTtrw&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHiQMQYTtrw&feature=player_embedded#!

giovonni
26th August 2011, 20:41
i agree with Ben's assessment on this... and would hope someone in Congress (perhaps Ron Paul) would lead the nation in closing his fed banks - real soon !
__________________________________________________ ______

From Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke

"I do not expect the long-run growth potential of the U.S. economy to be materially affected by the crisis and the recession if — and I stress if — our country takes the necessary steps to secure that outcome..."

Fed's Bernanke says it's up to Congress to boost the economy http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/ap_ben_bernanke_sc_110713_me.jpg
By Peter Schroeder - 08/26/11 10:29 AM ET

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did not announce any new measures to stimulate the economy in a highly anticipated speech on Friday, instead saying it's up to Washington to deal with the nation's flagging growth.. read more - http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/178327--bernanke-says-its-up-to-congress-to-boost-economy

kathymarie
26th August 2011, 22:43
Maybe it's time to give piss a chance....;)


yep im afraid they all piss in the same pot

Non of them are for the people.Lie lie and more lies.

robinr1
26th August 2011, 22:49
hmmmmm...seeing a slight problem here. i ask if u are politcally active u say yes u are....then the next words right out the gate are to stop
participating in the system?

which is it.......are u politcally active and dont see it as a waste..........or should we all stop participating in the system?

honestly wondering bc both cant be.






compared to obama the gigantic war mongerer....and the bomb all the brown people for decades neo cons ....yes i would say that ron paul is head and shouders above the rest.


spiralmind......im venturing a guess u arent politically active and think its all a waste?

and if im incorrect what would u recommend politically active americans do to try and change the political culture in america?

thank you

robin



You would be incorrect. My suggestion would be to simply stop participating in the system. Take your money out of the big banks, don't go to work, starve the system.
Listen, let's assume RP is elected to office and has all good intentions to turn things around. How much do you really think he will be able to accomplish? The political system is so corrupted and corporate controlled that he wouldn't get very far.

Starving an already crippled system won't take long to break it down, and it has the virtue of being non-violent. A website maybe to use as a starting point:

http://www.unitedwestrike.com/

Oh, and start getting angry.

TargeT
26th August 2011, 22:54
Considering at least 90% of everything Congress has done in the last 40 years has been harmful, doing nothing would be an improvement. But if we are going with the hypothetical that he wins, chances are there would be a lot more small government types winning seats in the house and the senate. Maybe even some GOOOH candidates. And there is nothing hypocritical about using exec orders to remove other executive orders and then having an executive order to remove the ability of a president to create an executive order, which would do wonders for our liberty.

I would have agreed with you untill the most recent crop of "tea party" candidates that swept congress & changed the control over voted FOR the patriot act to be renewed... THOSE are the types of candidates you would get (and who wants those? we already have an obama, don't need any more)



You know, just getting his ideas out in the mainstream is enough of an accomplishment for our side.

I am tired of filling in the blanks in people's understanding before I can argue with them.

People need to know what is going on and Ron Paul is well down that road.


I can't disagree, RP was a stepping stone for me, and in that he did an EXCELENT JOB!

I am simply pointing out he's nothing more than that, don't externilize your power and hope for a savior, YOU ARE the savior.

jackovesk
3rd September 2011, 05:59
Who ‘Really’ Is this Bruce Fein?

Tuesday, 30. August 2011

Article written by Sibel Edmonds

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/830_Fein.png

Last week, right after publishing my article on Congresswoman Schmidt and Bruce Fein’s brilliant foreign lobby money rechanneling-laundering scheme, and to my shock, I found out about this:


The Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign announced today that constitutional and international law expert Bruce Fein will join the campaign as senior advisor on legal matters.

“Bruce Fein’s participation adds to our campaign’s already intellectual heft, enabling us to more broadly engage the conversation about constitutionality, civil liberties and the dangers to national security of an increasingly interventionist foreign policy,” said Ron Paul 2012 Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton.


While some at Rep. Paul’s Camp were busy celebrating and cheering the announcement as a brilliant strategic move, I was frantically gathering cases and research notes, corresponding with current and former colleagues from the intelligence community who had come to support Rep. Paul, and communicating with a few friends with Rep. Paul’s Campaign who were equally troubled by this development.

I understand the ‘cheering’ side of Paul’s camp as they have been excited and impressed by the in- writing-and-words-only side of Bruce Fein. Not so different than those who were fired up and sold on the in-words-only rhetoric and promises staged by President Obama. The Constitutional Scholar Fein and the Constitutional Expert Obama. A Great Penman Fein and the Great Orator Obama…and of course the contradicting realities and the contradicting facts.

However, in this case, there are already too many established facts and too much history on Mr. Fein, and way too many rational and realistic people among Paul supporters to ring the alarm bells and counter this great threat before it’s too late.

I will go as far as calling the penetration of the Ron Paul camp by Bruce Fein ‘the greatest threat to Paul’s camp to date,’ and will make a solid case for this characterization based on glaring and alarming facts; facts and concerns shared by several loyal Paul advisors today.

Who is the real Bruce Fein?

Why there are so many different versions of Fein – one contradicting the other? How do his real actions and intimate associations stand in stark contrast to Ron Paul? What is the most likely plot in planting Mr. Fein within Paul’s campaign?

Foreign Lobby & Influence Peddling

Ron Paul has been consistent and exemplary in his strongly held principles on the Foreign lobby and influence peddling; a rarity in the US Congress. He has displayed intense disdain for foreign lobbying and foreign influence. He even considers congressional ‘junkets’ as another means to be compromised: stressing that he would not travel abroad on agenda-driven foreigners’ dime: “I just think it’s unnecessary for congressmen to travel overseas, and the people in our district were on my side,” he said in an interview. “You don’t need to go to Bosnia to understand we have no business there.”

With Bruce Fein you have exactly the opposite stand. He has been a crusty foreign lobbyist making millions of dollars peddling his foreign bosses’ interests and influence in Congress and government agencies. For Fein it has never mattered who the foreign client or what their agenda. He does not care whether his foreign clients are criminals or terrorists or dictators. As long as they pay him handsomely he’ll sell their agenda and interest no matter what they may be. The words ‘principle’ or ‘taking a stand’ have never entered this foreign lobbyist’s dictionary or comprehension:

One minute, on behalf of one set of his foreign designated ‘terrorist’ bosses, Bruce Fein is busy selling the need for a genocide declaration by the US Congress against one nation:


“For the past year I have written about Bruce Fein in many articles that have been widely published and circulated. He is reportedly paid $100,000 per month to tell lies in Washington about the Government of Sri Lanka… Who are the American individuals backing this group? Where are they getting their money to pay Bruce Fein? Does former US Ambassador Blake have something to do with them…”


The next minute, on behalf of another well-known foreign mob boss, Bruce Fein is busy peddling influence and selling Congress his foreign bosses’ anti-genocide agenda:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/830_Turkishcoalam.png


“In 2007, Ayasli transferred $30 million in stock to fund a new endeavor, the nonprofit Turkish Coalition of America. The organization is headquartered in a Washington suite that has also been listed as the address for the Turkish Coalition USA PAC, the lobbying firm of Lydia Borland (who has represented the Turkish government), and the law firm of Bruce Fein and Associates (Fein comprises half of the Turkish American Legal Defense Fund)…”

“materials put out by the Turkish Coalition of America and authored by a lawyer, Bruce Fein, who now represents Schmidt in the complaint, say that Congresswoman Schmidt has on numerous occasions voiced her opposition to such resolutions and maintains that the historical question is not appropriate for Congress to legislate. The congresswoman, based on her independent research, does not believe the tragic events constitute genocide…”


Bruce Fein sees no problem with representing foreign groups like this:


Fein hit the jackpot in 1991 when he signed on to represent Mozambique’s notorious guerrilla army, RENAMO, which was seeking to overthrow its country’s leftist government. When Fein came on board, RENAMO’s reputation has hit bottom…


Even the Reagan and Bush administrations kept their distance from RENAMO, despite their anti-Communist rhetoric…


Fein, however, eagerly signed up to flack for Dhlakama’s terror army. Like most foreign lobbyists, he bilked his client for huge sums of money while performing virtually no work.


Mr. Fine, who now fakes and preaches non-interventionism and anti-influence peddling only to echo Ron Paul, in real life has been practicing the exact opposite:


http://flagsandanthems.com/images/flags/flag-palestinian-national-authority-flagge-rechteckig-50x100.gif “Now, Fein has returned to lobbying and is working for a client that has the dubious distinction of making RENAMO look good: The Sudan. That country’s government is barred from receiving U.S. foreign aid because of its support for terrorism and because of its revolting human rights record. Amnesty International reports that the Sudanese government not only assassinates and tortures its “enemies,” but that paramilitary forces have kidnapped scores of children, who are believed to be held in domestic slavery by their abductors or taken to camps in remote rural areas, where they are trained for military service”


Here is another on-the-spot description of Real Bruce Fein as a crusty “Beltway Prostitute”:


Well, well, well. Wasn’t Bruce Fein just recently condemning the Government of Sri Lanka for trying to put an end to the LTTE? But this time he’s defending a sovereign government for protecting itself – rather than slandering it using falsehoods. Now you see what I mean when I earlier referred to Mr. Fein as a “Beltway prostitute.” He will accept money from anyone who can pay the price – regardless of where that money came from, or who his legal and public relations services might unjustly hurt. What an embarrassment to the US legal profession.”


You see, for Mr. Fein pimping the Congress on behalf of foreign clients is about dollars. Nothing more; nothing less. Whether it is advocating additional foreign aid for one country while our nation is being bankrupted, or dragging our Congress to get involved with domestic meddling and the affairs of another foreign country, Bruce Fein has never been about the United States’ interests; just the opposite. Give Fein the dollars and he’ll sign up to lobby for any one: terrorists, corrupt foreign governments, mobsters, assassins …

Long pocketed as a ‘lobbyist’ by Pakistan, Sudan, Turkey, Tamil, and others, Bruce Fein is the exact antithesis to Ron Paul’s principled position on issues related to foreign lobby, corruption and influence peddling in government.

Overt Neocon Ties & Covert Israel Pedigree

Ron Paul has been in staunch opposition and a counter to Neocon agendas and field players. Whether on the Israel lobby and agenda driving the hawkish currents in our nation today, or the corporate war machine interests guiding our foreign policy practices, Paul has consistently stood firm and unrelenting.

Mr. Fein’s public pedigree makes it fairly easy to spot his overt ties and links. For example: he has been an adjunct scholar with the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). By now I think the majority of Americans know about AEI’s claim to fame:


“AEI is the most prominent think tank associated with American neoconservatism, in both the domestic and international policy arenas.[10] Irving Kristol, widely considered a father of neoconservatism, is a senior fellow at AEI, and many prominent neoconservatives—including Jeane Kirkpatrick, Ben Wattenberg, and Joshua Muravchik—spent the bulk of their careers at AEI.”


A well-known couple of facts about AEI:


1- In order to be accepted by AEI, to become one of their scholars, proven neoconservative inklings and ties are the never-waivered prerequisites.

2- AEI seeks candidates who put Loyalty and Allegiance to Israel above all.

John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt state in their controversial bestseller, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, that the tone of the right-leaning component of the Israel lobby results from the influence of the leaders of the two top lobby groups: AIPAC, and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. They go on to list, as right-leaning think tanks associated with the lobby, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the American Enterprise Institute.


Acceptance to the tightly knitted and guarded AEI Neocon community also extends to family members and religious affiliations. Bruce Fein has passed both litmus tests in becoming a highly-regarded member of AEI. His wife, Mattie Fein, has been a vocal hawk, neocon propaganda distributor, and a very familiar face within the Beltway neocon community:


In 2007, Fein penned an opinion piece in the Washington Times calling on the United States to pledge military support to Iranian dissidents in the event of an uprising. Fein, whose father is of Iranian descent, was identified in the piece as the founder and president of the Institute for Persian Studies.


While Fein’s AEI and neocon connections and strong ties are overtly stated, his loyalties and allegiance to Israel and the Israel lobby are not; that is, until you start digging. A former AEI member who now works as a congressional aid stated, ‘Bruce Fein was liked and trusted there as ‘one of them,’ a real Jewish man loyal to Israel and its interests.’


http://flagsandanthems.com/images/flags/flag-israel-flagge-rechteckig-50x75.gif Fein has been successful in playing both sides of this field, and keeping his Israel related activities and ties mainly covert. However, in 2010, Fein’s wife, Mattie Fein, began expressing the couple’s views on Israel and Israel’s interests less covertly. Some attribute that to Mattie Fein’s desperate need and her fierce competition with Harman over Israel lobby dollars. Here is Mattie’s response to the test question by the Zionist community:

7. Would you support Israel taking military action to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons? Under what circumstances?

The United States should support whatever Israel believes is justified by national security worries over Iran.


And here is Bruce Fein’s buddy from AEI, the scandalous John Bolton, who’s been backing the Fein couple including Mattie Fein’s fundraising and campaign:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/830_Bolton.png


I was privy to some of the logistics involved in setting up the fundraiser that Bolton held for Mattie’s campaign. It amazed me how quickly some establishment Republicans tried to steal the thunder of Bolton’s appearance through various subterfuges and poaching, and it is a credit to the man’s character and timber that he refused to be a part of it. He was there to endorse Mattie Fein against Jane Harman, and he wouldn’t let third parties screw that up.


Mattie Fein’s established Neocon pedigree, her hawkish propaganda and activities nicely echoes Bolton’s own. Some liken the relationship to mentor-protégé dynamics that began with the marriage to Fein and entry into the AEI circle.

The Question of Ethics …or Lack of

Even Ron Paul’s foes would admit that he has been a man of principle throughout his life; both inside and outside his congressional career. Those who may disagree with his political platform and stand would acknowledge his adherence to ethical practices, whether in his personal-family life or career.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/830_Schmidt.png


In a statement released on August 5, the House Ethics Committee ruled that Rep Jean Schmidt has received multiple improper gifts totaling $500,000 from the Turkish Coalition of America (TCA) between 2008 and 2010. The Committee ruled that Schmidt must pay the money back, However, she will not face sanctions by the House as she was able to pin the blame for her behavior on her attorneys Bruce Fein and David Saltzman


You can read the full report by the House Ethics Committee here (http://issuu.com/communitypress/docs/schmidtreportwithattachments). It remains to be seen whether anyone will go after Bruce Fein and his license for this highly scandalous case and ethics violations. His two possible explanations for this case would be: 1- I did not tell my client that my legal representation of her case was part of foreign lobby money funneling to her; 2- My client was fully aware of the foreign lobby bribery nature of my legal representation and services, but to protect her and my foreign bosses I took the blame. Under either explanation one glaring point remains clear, and that is the lack of ethics on behalf of the involved attorney-Bruce Fein. On the other hand, Mr. Fein appears to have had practice in riding ethics related scandals and waves. At least in the scandalous ethic violations case involving Bruce Fein and his partner Ephraim Chukwuemeka Ugwuonye, Esq.

I started with that famous quote from Marcus Tullius Cicero because it applies to this report and the plots delivered from within. When it comes to Ron Paul’s Campaign no one would ever have to worry about known snakes and neocons like Paul Wolfowitz or Richard Perle. The enemy sent to you will be one who talks just like you; speaks your words and shouts your slogans. And does so very convincingly.

I have tried to be brief with carefully and well-sourced facts and cases to provide a factual profile for the real Bruce Fein. Considering the facts and who Mr. Fein is, and has been, why would he methodically go about attaching himself to Ron Paul and his campaign? After consulting with several well-respected and trust-worthy sources, the troubling answer was summed up in two possibilities:


1- This is a commonly used ploy by the establishment to penetrate Ron Paul and his camp which has been gaining momentum. This is where the plant carries inside information and strategic plans to the establishment, and simultaneously tries to exert negative influence over decision making and strategy-setting processes.

2- The plant willingly and knowingly becomes the fall-guy bringing down the target candidate. Highly damaging and scandalous information about the plant would be strategically released to the media-public, and the candidate suffers the ultimate consequences.


Personally I am leaning more towards the second possibility and here is why:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/830_FleetingFein.png

I was privy to the extensive rap sheet maintained on Mr. Fein, his foreign mob bosses and their operations at J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI. Mr. Fein is well aware of this rap sheet and the FBI’s long-maintained operations. I know with certainty that if released by the FBI, whether partially or completely, it would be used as ongoing front-page headlines by the media, to bring down the entire Paul campaign before the primaries.

Ron Paul already has a highly-respected constitutional scholar who is articulate, eloquent, passionate, and most importantly, trust-worthy, clean, and from outside the poisonous capital beltway. That person is Tom Woods. Paul does not need this man Fein. He does not need this glitzy-oily foreign lobbyist who stands in total contrast to Paul’s platform.

I like Ron Paul. I support his stand on foreign policy related matters and his objectives on what need to be changed. I applaud Paul’s stand on our liberties, and I back his quest for a much smaller government. I have done so for years. Please don’t let the establishment succeed in their plot. Bruce Fein is the greatest threat to Paul’s movement to date. He would be a stain – a taint; not one easily removed after the fact. Please begin the countdown, and have Ron Paul remove this man from the campaign as a trusted advisor and insider. Let the countdown begin today; at this hour -at this very minute. Before it is too late.


# # # #
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/08/30/the-greatest-plot-against-the-ron-paul-camp-to-date/

PS - WTF? I have never heard of Sibel Edmonds, but if what she says is True? It is of great concern to Ron Paul.

I am in Ron Pauls corner and support him 110%!

In the name of Truth was the only reason I posted this, in the hope some of our American Avalonians may be able to shed some more light on this story 'Or' at the very least contact Ron Paul's Campaign Office and demand some answers!

loveandgratitude
3rd September 2011, 14:01
I think they are under a spell. A sleeping spell.

Maia Gabrial
3rd September 2011, 14:20
Let's hope that the Ron Paul camp is smarter than that....And if Ron Paul is not different from the rest of the criminals then the truth SHOULD come out NOW, so that we can see him for what he is. Maybe we've been had on this front, too.... I certainly liked what he was saying. He seemed like the type of leader I wanted for this country....However, we all should watch closely to what is going on now and it'll be very telling.....Maybe all he's doing is talking out of the side of his mouth. Telling people what they WANT to hear? Didn't Obama do the same with all of his promises? See what a mess we're in now? Maybe this is our country's final blow....and it won't matter WHO'S the leader....Sad....
After all the lies, deceit, theft and murders, I say I'd rather hear the truth no matter how much it hurts to hear. AS LONG AS IT'S THE TRUTH....! We'll be able to make better decisions that way....

loveandgratitude
3rd September 2011, 14:26
The USA has to take back the media NOW. Kick out those infliltrators who seek to control the minds of the people. You have Zionists princesses telling the masses on talk TV that Ron Paul is unelectable. When did TV show talk hosts have the right to be involved in politics and give opinions that are biased. England have kicked out Murdoch, Australia is following suit NOW IT THE TIME FOR THE USA to do the same. Cancel their Licenses. KICK THEM OUT NOW.

Lifebringer
3rd September 2011, 14:27
See that's why Ron Paul has to completely disassociate himself with Republicans who have crooked moles who sink, or do harm to our democracy. If he ran as a Libertarian, he would have enough votes from diseffected republicans who want us out of the war. Mainly his supporters and right leaning independents.

Republican banner is MUDD now and they will jump on the band wagon of what's left of the people's candidates and plant themselves for a different message. Ergo Ron Paul wants our of war, this guy wants to expand and still rape the countries of their "valued resources" for their own, so their same greedy markets of owning it all, can continue. The campaign must tell Ron Paul this guy has to go and demand he not create ties with warmongers in sheep's clothing.

WE told Senator Obama who we wanted for VP, NOT the other way around. WE kept his campaign clean and open with all the donors listed for the Board of elections. WE must continue to demand they keep their campaigns free of corporate sellouts, because in case you didn't know, there are very few products made here where there is a demand, for this reason.

Wake up Paul supporters and protect your candidate from influence peddlers or he will not be taken seriously, again.
We like a good clean election, it gives us something to vote for. Good candidates are few and very far between in the Teapublican Party of NO. Dr. Ron Paul is a doctor and cares about Seniors and does not want to lock up people because they smoke pot.

Been like that for years. He also believes in trade schools and closing our border which puts a strain on our now needed systems.
Just saying if you can't lead clean for your campaign, then you won't lead clean in the White House.

Lefty Dave
3rd September 2011, 15:31
Greetings
Have supported and or voted for Dr Paul for thirty years....he's a brave man and he knows what's happening to US and the world...
However... US citizens are bombarded with soundbites from MSM that distort reality...every 20 minutes...the same subjective rhetoric...repeated over and over....24/7....they haven't the faintest idea what the truth is...nor can they discern the truth...because they never hear it.......just the fearmongering...hate and fear...no objective 'good news' allowed. Period.
It's a pity what's happened here since the 2000 elections....(selections)....and, though it goes back 40 years previous...(when rogues took over America....with 3 gunshots....) what has transpired in the last 10 years or so is unconsciounable . Regular folks on the street have no clue anymore....ask them about chemical trails in the sky....visible right over their heads for 10 years now...and the "never heard of them" !!! Ask anyone on the street to recite any one of their constitutional amendments...all they know is the right to bear arms....ask who they think will make the best president next election... and they respond that they 'never vote'....or they say some TV evangelist...who demands apocalypse...'cause 'it is written' !
No matter what the few of us who can still remember what being an American used to mean, the average person on the street only knows what they heard on fox,abcbsnbcnn....and no one questions what's being said...if you do...you are denigrated or condemned as a conspiracy nut....it's the saddest state of affairs imaginable...and truthseekers ...what few of us there are...must accept the undenialable but obvious reality....
You can't wake up the dead. You can't make the blind see. You can only know what you know... pray for the best...prepare for the worst..and stay out of the line of fire !Blessings.

end of line.

jackovesk
3rd September 2011, 18:40
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/ronp_dees.jpg

Spiralmind
3rd September 2011, 21:03
hmmmmm...seeing a slight problem here. i ask if u are politcally active u say yes u are....then the next words right out the gate are to stop
participating in the system?

which is it.......are u politcally active and dont see it as a waste..........or should we all stop participating in the system?

honestly wondering bc both cant be.






compared to obama the gigantic war mongerer....and the bomb all the brown people for decades neo cons ....yes i would say that ron paul is head and shouders above the rest.


spiralmind......im venturing a guess u arent politically active and think its all a waste?

and if im incorrect what would u recommend politically active americans do to try and change the political culture in america?

thank you

robin



You would be incorrect. My suggestion would be to simply stop participating in the system. Take your money out of the big banks, don't go to work, starve the system.
Listen, let's assume RP is elected to office and has all good intentions to turn things around. How much do you really think he will be able to accomplish? The political system is so corrupted and corporate controlled that he wouldn't get very far.

Starving an already crippled system won't take long to break it down, and it has the virtue of being non-violent. A website maybe to use as a starting point:

http://www.unitedwestrike.com/

Oh, and start getting angry.


I believe I have already answered that question very clearly. I fail to see what being politically active has to do with my solution. Perhaps my political activities helped me come to my conclusions..... In any event, my opinion still stands.

jackovesk
4th September 2011, 23:54
PS - WTF? I have never heard of Sibel Edmonds, but if what she says is True? It is of great concern to Ron Paul.

I am in Ron Pauls corner and support him 110%!

In the name of Truth was the only reason I posted this, in the hope some of our American Avalonians may be able to shed some more light on this story 'Or' at the very least contact Ron Paul's Campaign Office and demand some answers!

Just wondering if anyone of our American Avalonians have followed this up with Ron Pauls campaign office yet?

jackovesk
7th September 2011, 01:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUHlIPJTMIg

PS - You bloody beauty Ron Paul, if the MSM won't help, at least your making the Criminals Accountable on National TV..!

Keep Em Coming..!

Ron Paul :boxing: is going to 'Knockout' Texas :cheer2: Rick Perry & the crowd applauds :clap2:

WhiteFeather
7th September 2011, 02:05
Ron Paul...He's got my vote, and Jesse Ventura as V.P., or vice versa.

Moemers
7th September 2011, 02:13
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/06/22/ron-paul-would-sign-planned-parenthood-funding-ban/

Bummer.

onawah
7th September 2011, 02:22
The info in that lifenews article is basically:
"In a new statement about his pro-life views, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul said he would sign a ban on taxpayer funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business if elected president."
He has never been in favor of a women's fundamental right to choose, and as a woman, I cannot agree.

jackovesk
7th September 2011, 03:21
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/06/22/ron-paul-would-sign-planned-parenthood-funding-ban/

Bummer.


The info in that lifenews article is basically:
"In a new statement about his pro-life views, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul said he would sign a ban on taxpayer funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business if elected president."
He has never been in favor of a women's fundamental right to choose, and as a woman, I cannot agree.

By the way I agree with a "women's fundamental right to choose" especially a child spawned after a rape..!

Having said that is 1 thing going to prevent anyone from voting for Ron Paul.

From my understanding most of the 'Bought & Paid For' Globalist Puppet Candidates are Pro-Lifers aswell..?

Marianne
7th September 2011, 03:29
Jack,

Thanks for all the information you gather and post.

I agree that a woman should continue to have the right to choose. However, I feel strongly that taxpayer money should not be used for abortions. I know that leaves some poor women in a bad spot, but there it is.

I would question the ability of any candidate to win a general election in the U.S. unless he/she supported the right to choose.

Junebug

Annacarl
7th September 2011, 04:16
I believe abortion has no business in the federal public debate. Another clear divide and conquer. Our leaders will never be able to take away a woman's right to choose.
It is a safe medical procedure and if anything it would be given back to the states. I hate to see others making such a big deal of pro-life versus pro- choice and voting for the candidate that shares their views on this single issue.

modwiz
7th September 2011, 04:41
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/06/is-ron-paul-still-ron-paul/

I don't want to poop on anybody's parade but the article here is an important one to read. This is the second time I have had the weasel, Bruce Fein, brought to my attention regarding Ron Paul. This is an obvious fox in the henhouse. This is like Tim Geithner or Larry Summers in Obama's administration. A clear bellweather of what may come. Unless Ron Paul dumps this roach in the next few days he should be held as having a funny smell to him. The kind of odor that informs one to proceed with caution and discernment. After Obama I have my doubts about any man or woman who gets to live when running for the highest office. Things in our system are far worse than it is comfortable to work with, day to day.

jackovesk
7th September 2011, 05:37
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/06/is-ron-paul-still-ron-paul/

I don't want to poop on anybody's parade but the article here is an important one to read. This is the second time I have had the weasel, Bruce Fein, brought to my attention regarding Ron Paul. This is an obvious fox in the henhouse. This is like Tim Geithner or Larry Summers in Obama's administration. A clear bellweather of what may come. Unless Ron Paul dumps this roach in the next few days he should be held as having a funny smell to him. The kind of odor that informs one to proceed with caution and discernment. After Obama I have my doubts about any man or woman who gets to live when running for the highest office. Things in our system are far worse than it is comfortable to work with, day to day.

Know what you are saying Modwiz,

Here is the Thread I started a couple of days ago...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29515-The-Greatest-Plot-Against-the-Ron-Paul-Camp-To-Date..-&p=300678#post300678

However I still Trust Ron Paul and support him 110%...

I have sent this info to Alex Jones, but I have'nt heard Alex address this on his show as yet...

Ron Paul deserves to be given the 'Benefit of the Doubt' until proven otherwise.

But this issue won't go away until it has been publically scrutinised...

Erich
7th September 2011, 07:25
What's so wonderful about this ad? It sounds like the same ol' to me.

christian
7th September 2011, 07:50
The info in that lifenews article is basically:
"In a new statement about his pro-life views, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul said he would sign a ban on taxpayer funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business if elected president."
He has never been in favor of a women's fundamental right to choose, and as a woman, I cannot agree.

Planned Parenthood is a eugenics organization, its activities are laid out in Endgame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho) pretty extensively.

I might be a hypocrite, because I'm not a woman, but what about the children's rights? If, for some reason, you really cannot take care of a child or don't want to, I don't judge you, you could just give it away. In foster care they are more likely to get abused, drugged or even used as guinea-pigs (http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/epa_allow_pesticide_testing_on_orphans.htm), but at least they don't get killed. Also having an abortion highly raises the risk of developing breast cancer (www.abortionbreastcancer.com/).

Pro choice sounds reasonable, but what choice is it? The choice to kill. I don't really see a difference between having an abortion and killing a child, that is already walking on the earth.

I give you that, maybe if it is done immediately after conception, it is ok, there is no soul in there yet, but I can see how pregnant women, that don't have a perceivable big belly yet, that indicates they are pregnant, carry around with them a baby with a soul in them, for the aura-color at their belly clearly indicates that. I cannot tell you at what month this usually happens, because I don't know that, anyways it's a very delicate issue.

jackovesk
7th September 2011, 07:53
What's so wonderful about this ad? It sounds like the same ol' to me.

Just take your eyes off the MSM TV and Think about it Erich..?

The Only Way that Ron Paul is going to Win?

a - Expose the Hoax that he can't win

b - Promote the Fact that Ron Paul is the only candidate with a perfect voting record

c - Expose another Fact that Ron Paul is the only Candidate that is being attacked by the MSM & Political Spectrum

d - If you Vote for Establishment Candidates you deserve what you get!

More importantly if Ron Paul wants to Win he must go after the likes of Mitt Romney & Rick Perry and expose them for their voting records, alliances and their Flip-Flops..!

The Truth Is In There
7th September 2011, 09:27
reagan always makes me think of "trance-formation of america". if ron paul is a buddy of ronald reagan he probably has his own sex slave, too.

kathymarie
7th September 2011, 12:04
..and as a woman, mother and former fetus myself I agree with him.....
The info in that lifenews article is basically:
"In a new statement about his pro-life views, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul said he would sign a ban on taxpayer funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business if elected president."
He has never been in favor of a women's fundamental right to choose, and as a woman, I cannot agree.

onawah
7th September 2011, 19:59
I used to be a student at the Berkeley Psychic Institute, home to many skilled psychics who gave classes and readings, etc. to students and the public. They have schools and churches all over California and elsewhere and are very active in helping people to open up to their untapped psychic potential.
They have midwifery clinics and the midwives are also psychic, so they can give soul readings to the prospective parents and tell them about the incoming soul, their karmic relationship, past lives, etc. It's pretty fascinating. I spent several years studying there and though I wouldn't say their accuracy rate was 100%, there was certainly a lot of valid information being shared, and I can personally attest to that, because much of what they told me turned out to be spot on accurate.

I learned from the clairvoyants there that some of what they call "baby beings" or souls that are seeking a body, regardless of whether they have an agreement with the parents they are targeting, will actually coerce or sneak their way into being conceived if the parents are susceptible to their influence. And can even forcefully take the place of a baby being that does have a birth agreement with the parents. So this is a more complex issue than most people realize.


They also said that until a baby is actually born, the soul can easily exit the body any time it chooses and for long periods of time. So unless a soul wants to be present in the fetus when it is being aborted, it has the option to leave. It does not have to be a traumatic experience for the fetus, although it most often is for the woman. Not as traumatic as having to devote her life's energies to a child she did not agree to give birth to or care for, however, in most cases.

For any woman, and particularly a low income woman, bringing an unwanted child to term and then giving it up for adoption is not an easy thing to do. I know, because I did it myself. It is very taxing to one's health, physically, emotionally, spiritually and definitely economically. It put me into a downward spiral that culminated in a NDE and some lifelong permanent disabilities.

I don't even really care to hear a man's opinion on this subject, until the day comes when men are the ones who have to bear the children, or they can clearly remember from their past lives as women what it is really like to bear a child. Especially a woman who is on her own with little or no support.

The financial debate about the government paying for abortion is a good example of why our economy needs to be revamped from top to bottom. Black ops and other illegal, unnecessary and criminally wasteful projects our governments are spending money on are taking up the vast majority of the world's resources, leaving human services squabbling over a tiny fraction of what's left. It's one way The Powers That Were have kept us at each others' throats, arguing about crumbs when they have taken the whole feast behind our backs.

IMHO, Planned Parenthood was designed to help poor women who have no other options.
TPTW have plenty of other means to reduce the population in their genocidal toolbox, from vaccines to chemtrails to GMOs, Big Pharma and on and on and on.
If Planned Parenthood was part of their agenda, PP would not have been fighting tooth and nail all these years just to keep their doors open.

Alan
7th September 2011, 20:39
My 2cents -- if you want to have a real debate about abortion, the first step is to drop the deliberately misleading language.

"Pro choice" sounds nice but it's really the the right to have an abortion.

"Pro life" is also misleading, let's call it anti-abortion, shall we?

Alan
7th September 2011, 20:42
The info in that lifenews article is basically:
"In a new statement about his pro-life views, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul said he would sign a ban on taxpayer funding of the Planned Parenthood abortion business if elected president."
He has never been in favor of a women's fundamental right to choose, and as a woman, I cannot agree.

That's fine, but does a candidate exist which you agree with 100%, AND you can trust? Most of the candidates decide what to support based on polls, Ron Paul may be the only one truly guided by PRINCIPLEs.

I hope you're not casting your vote based on this one issue, there are many other more important issues to consider.

onawah
7th September 2011, 21:07
It's may be just one issue from a political perspective, but it's a very important one and the consequences are very far reaching.
Women still do not have equal rights and are still treated as chattel in much of today's world.
It is very important that the fight for equal rights continue to be fought in the more developed nations, because it has a profound effect on other nations, and one battle won here will be a victory for women all around the world.
So it's an international, not just a national issue.
It's also a spiritual and a planetary issue, a vital part of the whole Shift, which is very much to do with the balancing of the sacred feminine with the sacred masculine, which has been very out of balance for a very long time.

christian
7th September 2011, 21:14
I used to be a student at the Berkeley Psychic Institute, home to many skilled psychics who gave classes and readings, etc. to students and the public. They have schools and churches all over California and elsewhere and are very active in helping people to open up to their untapped psychic potential.
They have midwifery clinics and the midwives are also psychic, so they can give soul readings to the prospective parents and tell them about the incoming soul, their karmic relationship, past lives, etc. It's pretty fascinating. I spent several years studying there and though I wouldn't say their accuracy rate was 100%, there was certainly a lot of valid information being shared, and I can personally attest to that, because much of what they told me turned out to be spot on accurate.

I learned from the clairvoyants there that some of what they call "baby beings" or souls that are seeking a body, regardless of whether they have an agreement with the parents they are targeting, will actually coerce or sneak their way into being conceived if the parents are susceptible to their influence. And can even forcefully take the place of a baby being that does have a birth agreement with the parents. So this is a more complex issue than most people realize.


They also said that until a baby is actually born, the soul can easily exit the body any time it chooses and for long periods of time. So unless a soul wants to be present in the fetus when it is being aborted, it has the option to leave. It does not have to be a traumatic experience for the fetus, although it most often is for the woman. Not as traumatic as having to devote her life's energies to a child she did not agree to give birth to or care for, however, in most cases.

Interesting point of view. So the children don't suffer but the women do, but the women would suffer more, if they had to take care of an unwanted child.


For any woman, and particularly a low income woman, bringing an unwanted child to term and then giving it up for adoption is not an easy thing to do. I know, because I did it myself. It is very taxing to one's health, physically, emotionally, spiritually and definitely economically. It put me into a downward spiral that culminated in a NDE and some lifelong permanent disabilities.

I don't even really care to hear a man's opinion on this subject, until the day comes when men are the ones who have to bear the children, or they can clearly remember from their past lives as women what it is really like to bear a child. Especially a woman who is on her own with little or no support.

The question I get here is, what would have happened if you would have had an abortion? Would it have been better? Would there have been other effects, that would have been worse eventually, e.g. breast cancer? One never knows. Do you wish, you could have done otherwise in retrospect or do you see what you went through as an experience, that you appreciate?


The financial debate about the government paying for abortion is a good example of why our economy needs to be revamped from top to bottom. Black ops and other illegal, unnecessary and criminally wasteful projects our governments are spending money on are taking up the vast majority of the world's resources, leaving human services squabbling over a tiny fraction of what's left. It's one way The Powers That Were have kept us at each others' throats, arguing about crumbs when they have taken the whole feast behind our backs.

Obviously lots of money is misused these days, but Planned Parenthood can surely not complain about a lack of funding, being backed by the son of the former head of the organization, Bill Gates (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/AIDS%20and%20Population%20Elimination/gates.htm).


IMHO, Planned Parenthood was designed to help poor women who have no other options.
TPTW have plenty of other means to reduce the population in their genocidal toolbox, from vaccines to chemtrails to GMOs, Big Pharma and on and on and on.
If Planned Parenthood was part of their agenda, PP would not have been fighting tooth and nail all these years just to keep their doors open.

Margaret Sanger, who was the founder of Planned Parenthood, had clearly racist intentions (http://www.noonehastodietomorrow.com/eugenics/population/1144) and among the books of the closely related American Eugenics Society was a book, that Hitler called 'his bible' (http://www.spectacle.org/997/richmond.html).

norman
7th September 2011, 21:14
All this faith in voting gives me the blues. It gets like a giant fire that sucks in oxygen by the huge updraft from it's tower of flame. When the election is over, what do we get?

I'll agree that we don't quite get what we used to get. Obama wasn't quite in the full tradition of puppet presidents. If he was popular enough they'd keep him in for another term as the racial last laugh and mascot on a sinking ship. As he's doing so badly in the ratings, he might have to be replaced. even at this very late hour.

So who would they want to replace him with?

My bet goes on Ron Paul, for almost the same reason they wanted Obama. When they run the chainsaws through the American dream next year, the second best laugh they could have would be to watch a PATRIOT president go down with the ship. That would be almost as good a laugh, for them, as watching a "black" president go down with the ship.

My advice to all those getting excited about the next election is to get active with your spending habits instead. It'll do more good than voting.

Martin
7th September 2011, 21:24
I am all for Ron Paul and welcome any refreshing and reasonable voice, but there is a thing I just have to say about this trailer. Boy! It is so "american". Almost like a movie trailer. That of course can be a good thing, but I generally don't like that sort of dramatized feeling when it comes to serious matters.

BUT as long as it gets people to wake up and wonder over the status quo I am not complaining. Not anymore anyhow. :P


Martin

onawah
7th September 2011, 21:26
I don't know if your assertions about Gates funding PP or Sanger's alleged racism, chiquetet. But I do know from direct experience that low income women need birth control and sometimes, abortions, and PP is about the only place they can go. I think a certain amount of population control is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when it comes to personal choice. If more women had more choice, there would be many fewer starving millions dying tragic deaths. Genocide is another matter.
As for elections, I agree with Norman--TPTW have been controlling them for a long time, and they only give us as much as will keep us from full scale rioting. We have been skillfully manipulated, there's no doubt about it. But that is going to change, and it still makes a difference to me who is in the White House, because an inch can grow in to a mile eventually.
I'm not excited about the next election, but I am excited about a lot of other things that are going to change the political scene too, before too long.
IMHO.
As for my personal experience, I'd rather not discuss it here.

Martin
7th September 2011, 21:39
I personally kind of feel that it isn't so much about Ron Paul getting into the White House, but about "his" ideas and convctions getting into the people's field of view and that's were they need to be if any real change has to come about.

Abortion is a hard topic for me. Not knowing what might be the implications of not allowing life to come forth were "it chose" to be, but knowing the implications that might or might not result when allowing it brings you right to the point were one has to wonder about "maybe getting a little bit to far" for it's own good. I believe condoms are currently the best "solution" I could come up with.


Martin

giovonni
8th September 2011, 06:18
Who do you think won the Republican debate at the Reagan library?
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/OKFmp_EXHMm0KV8eTtB0Ow--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zMzc7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-09-08T022735Z_01_LOA29_RTRIDSP_3_USA-CAMPAIGN-DEBATE.jpg
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/07/7658608-who-do-you-think-won-the-republican-debate-at-the-reagan-library

risveglio
8th September 2011, 16:51
I think there should be a ban on tax payer funding for abortion. As an American that thinks abortion is a pretty vile act, I don't want that blood on my hands. If the poor can not pay for an abortion, then they should have the baby and put it up for adoption or get the money from another charity. Why should innocent people who work very hard pay for legal murder?

Dr Paul writes about when he changed his mind about abortion in his book Revolution. He was in a hospital room where a late term abortion occurred. The doctors just tossed the crying fetus into the trash and ignored its crying as it slowly died. At the same hospital, a woman who was having a baby premature and the doctors and nurses did all they could to save the baby. I think there is a serious moral issue with abortion.

I used to be very pro choice too. I still am. Just now I think that the choice should be made before conception. That's the problem with the world now, nobody wants to take the consequences for poor decisions. Buy a house I can't afford, bail me out. Banks and brokers make a bunch of bad deals, bail them out. Post Office can not be run right, bail them out. No consequences for our actions.

It's bad enough my money is used to kill third world citizens around the world without my consent. I don't think it should also be used to kill the truly innocent. Way too many people use abortion as a form of contraception.

jackovesk
8th September 2011, 18:32
Sept 8, 2011

Pictures taken during a commercial break in last night’s GOP debate at the Reagan Presidential Library suggest that Texas Governor Rick Perry attempted to physically intimidate Congressman Ron Paul, prompting Paul’s security to intervene.

Photographs published by the AP and Reuters show a stern looking Perry holding Paul’s wrist and waving a finger in his face.

http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2011/09/08/156369.jpg

Reports by Fox News and International Business Times state that during the break Perry “walked up to Paul’s podium, physically grabbed Paul’s wrist, and pointed at Paul’s face with his other hand.”

A third man, said to be Paul’s security guard, is seen approaching the podium in the picture.

Another photo shows Perry with arms outstretched, leaning in towards Paul engaging in what may be considered lively conversation to say the least. Some Paul supporters have suggested that the shot shows that Perry physically forced Paul away from his own podium during the commercial.

http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/perrypaul2.com_.jpg

It is not clear, however, whether this picture was taken at the same moment, and it is possible that it shows Paul approaching Perry’s podium. The two candidates were situated directly next to each other during the debate.

Before the exchange took place, Paul and Perry locked horns in a sharp exchange of words, with the Congressman calling out Perry on his support for ‘HillaryCare’ and his issuance of an executive order to forcibly vaccinate 12-year-old girls against HPV.

Ron Paul’s latest campaign ad, which ran during the debate commercials, also targeted Perry, exposing his previous record as a Democrat and his intimate links to Al Gore’s 1988 Presidential campaign.

Did Perry attempt to Physically intimidate Dr. Paul? The two campaigns have been asked to clarify what actually occurred during the exchange.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pictures-suggest-perry-attempted-to-physically-intimidate-ron-paul.html

Ron Paul Highlights - GOP Debate at the Reagan Library
http://i4.ytimg.com/u/O3Zc0OAo1OKjyyKdUuqT-g/watch_icon.jpg?v=4d3f23cd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLVOh1dfFc

PS - You've already beaten this Lame Clown Ron..!

Ron Paul DESTROYS Entire Field In Republican Debate


Results of Poll...

Total of 169,562 votes

Ron Paul 53.5%(90,777 votes)
Mitt Romney 15.9%(27,021 votes)
Rick Perry 13.4%(22,688 votes)
Jon Huntsman 6.6%(11,130 votes)
Newt Gingrich 4.4%(7,514 votes)
Herman Cain 3.2%(5,395 votes)
Michele Bachmann 2.0%(3,386 votes)
Rick Santorum 1.0%(1,651 votes)


Add YOUR Vote here...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/07/7658608-who-do-you-think-won-the-republican-debate-at-the-reagan-library

PSS - What's going on here..? Is it writing? A Tatoo? or just Veins & Tendons?

9841

Arrowwind
8th September 2011, 18:40
All I know is that in some neck of the woods pointing a finger like that and holding a wrist of a known adversary is considered agressive confrontation and the wrist holding can hold a charge of a class B misdimeaner... as well if that finger tip touched the body...

Ron Paul should press charges...

and I will say this also, since Ron Paul is a physician, that if such an encounter occured on a hosptial floor Perry would be escorted out and if the physician really felt threatened charges might be pressed.

Coaxial
8th September 2011, 18:53
Well in other parts the finger would be turned into a suppository....

Fred Steeves
8th September 2011, 19:04
Sounds like our various necks of the woods are very similar here. If I were to wag a finger in another man's face, I might expect either that finger to be grabbed and broken, or a fist to come looking for my jaw.

Cheers,
Fred

Rahkyt
8th September 2011, 19:05
Don't underestimate the power of a sitting Texas governor to become president of those united states ... i was in DC during the Glenn Beck rally 2010 summer ... I've seen a potential future for north america. I'm sure many of you have as well ... besides, if we make it to the next election cycle without total chaos an uneventful and almost totally meaningless presidential election would be a nice, mundane way to come down from the 2012 bug.

Maia Gabrial
8th September 2011, 19:18
It doesn't look as though Ron Paul is intimidated by Perry's finger either; which could have been taken as a threat. So, no finger gesturing, Perry....

Coaxial
8th September 2011, 20:14
Sounds like our various necks of the woods are very similar here. If I were to wag a finger in another man's face, I might expect either that finger to be grabbed and broken, or a fist to come looking for my jaw.

Very much so Fred! Lower Alabama and Florida has it's own vibe for sure...

nearing
9th September 2011, 00:08
I love how Paul didn't look intimidated in the least. LOL. Just maybe TPTW are leaving Perry out to dry and told him to take this one for himself. He knows he can't so he must be a bully. Me thinks bullying doesn't rattle Paul.

Great stuff, so amusing.

Paul
9th September 2011, 00:35
PSS - What's going on here..? Is it writing? A Tatoo? or just Veins & Tendons?Just veins and tendons I suspect. The veins on my wrist would look similar, under the right conditions.

WhiteFeather
9th September 2011, 00:45
Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura For Commander in Chief and Vice Commander in Chief. Now That's a ticket to look for Fellow American Avie's.

Ron Paul DESTROYS Entire Field In Republican Debate
Total of 169,562 votes.

Ron Paul 53.5%(90,777 votes)
Mitt Romney 15.9%(27,021 votes)
Rick Perry 13.4%(22,688 votes)
Jon Huntsman 6.6%(11,130 votes)
Newt Gingrich 4.4%(7,514 votes)
Herman Cain 3.2%(5,395 votes)
Michele Bachmann 2.0%(3,386 votes)
Rick Santorum 1.0%(1,651 votes)

Awesome!

Arc
9th September 2011, 01:28
I've been taking action to support Dr. Paul. Donated a few hundred dollars to his campaign already, even in these rough economic times. But, I'm also spreading the word to family, friends, and coworkers that he is the real Constitutional Statesmen in the US, and the rest are bought and paid for by bankers, lobbyists, and globalists.

I've been driving my truck around everywhere with a huge magnetic "Ron Paul 2012 - Restore America Now" banner on the passenger door - it's fun watching people's faces when I pass - the look of discovery and awakening, even confusion. ("Who is this Ron Paul? - the media does not tell me about him...", they must be thinking).

PS - Here is the official website for any interested folks - there are some great unofficial ones as well.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

Playdo of Ataraxas
9th September 2011, 02:00
Sounds like our various necks of the woods are very similar here. If I were to wag a finger in another man's face, I might expect either that finger to be grabbed and broken, or a fist to come looking for my jaw.

Very much so Fred! Lower Alabama and Florida has it's own vibe for sure...

Same thing here in Mississippi, too, y'all! That's fighting words, or body language, rather.....

jackovesk
9th September 2011, 03:11
I've been taking action to support Dr. Paul. Donated a few hundred dollars to his campaign already, even in these rough economic times. But, I'm also spreading the word to family, friends, and coworkers that he is the real Constitutional Statesmen in the US, and the rest are bought and paid for by bankers, lobbyists, and globalists.

I've been driving my truck around everywhere with a huge magnetic "Ron Paul 2012 - Restore America Now" banner on the passenger door - it's fun watching people's faces when I pass - the look of discovery and awakening, even confusion. ("Who is this Ron Paul? - the media does not tell me about him...", they must be thinking).

PS - Here is the official website for any interested folks - there are some great unofficial ones as well.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

:bump:

An almighty Thanks for your 'Contribution for Liberty & Freedom' from Down-Under Arc,

Now 'That's What I'm Talkin About'..!

Regards,

Jack

jackovesk
9th September 2011, 07:15
Friday, 9 September 2011

This post is about highlighting TO EVERYONE WHO READS the Free Planet blog that there are 'prophets of doom' out there (if you wanna call them that, I'd use the term REALISTS) who warned CONGRESS and THE WORLD time and time again that the Military Industrial Congressional Complex just can't go on without the world looking like Terry Gilliam's BRAZIL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXYd5eHfRIE

You (The People) didn't listen, and you're not listening, still.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1072/706/Ron_Paul_has_warned_about_911_since_the_mid-90s.html

Maia Gabrial
9th September 2011, 15:46
I think Perry acts like he's got the presidency in the bag. And he's starting out with intimidating and crapping on Ron Paul.
He doesn't realize that people like us are watching every move guys like him make. Honestly, I don't want a president who treats a fellow citizen
like that. If this is how he acts NOW, what will he be like later?

jackovesk
9th September 2011, 16:24
Ron Paul is giving these NWO Globalist CRIMINAL Bastards - 'What For'..!

Simply by 'Telling the TRUTH..!

I've heard everything I'm willing to hear about "We Must Start To Transform Our Way Of Thinking' and how 'Important' it is ride above all the 'Death & Mayhem' by just a simple Belief & Positive Change in Consciousness..?

BUT..! That means 'Jack Shyte' when your in the 'Trenches' and 'YOU' & 'YOUR COUNTRY's' very existence is 'ON THE LINE'..!

Obviously those who 'Think' you can beat the NWO Globalists by 'Playing Nice' and 'Think & Meditate' your way out of 'Trouble' are just plain 'Delusional'..!

'Wake Up'..!

You 'DEFEAT' these 'CRIMINALS' by playing 'FIRE with FIRE' and exposing them for 'ALL & EVERY INJUSTICE' they have forced upon 'Mankind'..!

If you 'KEEP EXPOSING' these 'CRIMINALS' like Ron Paul is starting to do...

He may 'Just Become' the 'President of the United States of America' in 2012..!

I know when it comes down to defending My Country, the last person I want in the trenches with me is some 'New Age' coward..!

'SO BE IT' the 'TRUTH is a real BITCH' sometimes isn't it..!

Jesus..! Did I just write that? Hell Yeh, I think I did..!

Better 'CALM DOWN' now and 'RELAX'...Do my 'MEDITATION' and everything will be just fine..! NOT..!

"How to Win Friends & Influence People'..?

PS - If I thought for a 'SECOND' I could 'DEFEAT' this 'SCUM' by just 'Changing My Mindset & Creating a Different Paradigm' I would..!

Hello..! Reality is Reality, now is the time to be 'Proactive' and not hide behind a 'New Age' cloak and try & convince yourself everything is going to be OK..?

Coz it Aint unless you 'Stand Up' as 'One' and 'Force these CRIMINALS OUT of OFFICE..!

The Funniest thing about my Rant is that it comes from a place of 'Spiritual Awarenes' that some will never understand..!

If you want your Liberty & Country Back America..? You better start 'Fighting For It' just like Ron Paul is ..!

jackovesk
9th September 2011, 16:59
...Post Update...

Full GOP Debate...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xFsaeBLJns

jackovesk
10th September 2011, 03:34
Ron Paul Responds To Perry “Intimidation” Photos: There Were No Cross Words


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2QnrHPKIR8&feature=player_embedded

Despite photos that appeared to show Rick Perry aggressively grabbing Ron Paul’s wrist and wagging a finger in his face during the debate commercials, the Congressman, ever the gentleman he is, has made light of the exchange.

“I wish it were a much more interesting story than that, because I don’t even recall the moment that it was occurring and I don’t remember exactly what he said. But we didn’t have any cross words. ” Paul said.

“The most challenging words were said on stage when not only I, but others, called him on some of the programs in Texas.”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-responds-to-perry-intimidation-photos-there-were-no-cross-words.html

PS - Good onya Ron Paul, any other Politician would have 'Milked' this incident for 'All its Worth'..!

PSS - If you watched the Debate in Full, you would have also noticed how 'Badly' Rick Perry performed and Ron Paul is right when he said, Perry was picked on more than any other candidate, not only by his Peers Onstage but the 'Talking Heads' aswell..!

Which Begs the Question: "Is Rick Perry the No.1 NWO Globalist Candidate?

After the Debate, you would'nt think so..!

jackovesk
10th September 2011, 03:57
***TRUST ME - My Name is Rick Perry & I'm here to Help..!***

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1251861793054&id=5ecc30ef874314489dd8b465fc1bf7d3&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wickedlocal.com%2fwayland%2fa rchive%2fx1638737851%2fg12c00000000000000071c24ad4 d1b4a0e393dc9b863cd4bd4f450f6029.jpg http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/d117e9ab-498e-424a-a44d-9f102e18dfca

Texas Radioactive Water Conspiracy Uncovered!!! Rick Perry Was In On It Too!!!


Texas state officials, politicians (Including Rick Perry), and EPA officials have been covering up dangerously high amounts of radiation in Texas drinking water for years now. I'm glad this independent news team uncovered the Truth!!! I wonder if this is going on in other states?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NhaBTiurm0

jackovesk
10th September 2011, 04:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s2rMnov4Ae8

Lost Soul
10th September 2011, 06:47
I can see where it's unofficial. It's also a rip-off of another ad and has been modified to fit the campaign. Ron Paul could not adopt it officially as it would ruin his credibility to steal. That said, the "transcribed" message does ring true.

toothpick
10th September 2011, 06:48
Great thread Jack.
I don,t know where you find the time to do all this research Jack, but i sure am glad you do, man.
Ron Paul looks like a nice calm regular sort of guy, someone you,d enjoy having a pint with.
These other characters look stiff and unnatural, circling around like spoiled silver spoon vultures, just waiting to decend and gorge themselves on some fresh tax dollars.
Can you guess that i don,t like polticians, you,d be right.
I used to just love politics, then i found out, like you did, Jack, that it does not matter in the end who you vote for, they are all working for the same smelly super rich globalists.
Anyway, i like Ron Paul as a man and hope he wins.
Can you just imagine that, it would be very interestng to watch.

toothpick

Maia Gabrial
10th September 2011, 22:15
If you ask most people looking at the picture of Perry grabbing Ron Paul's wrist, pointing his finger at him with that expression on his face, it wasn't a very nice encounter.... He wasn't wishing him well, in other words....
Just saying....

TigaHawk
12th September 2011, 04:43
Have seen that commercial before, its at LEAST a year old.

Whatever the clip is origionaly from - i KNOW is also banned from the US because it's considerd "Offensive"


I know the truth can hurt but offend? Why did i miss out on the reality-ignoring-thingy that they seem to have!


They changed it slightly.

Instead of comparing the money to toilet paper - the last line was.

"So now, we own them"

Meaning China has bought out so much of america's debt that they literaly own, the united states, should they ever come to collect. Keeping it as debt makes for easy squeezing tho, We want this and this and you to push this bill thru - or we'll come collect! etc

Erich
12th September 2011, 08:55
It makes Chinese look like condescending pseudo-intellectuals who refer to toiletries during university lectures. It is offensive.

TigaHawk
12th September 2011, 21:16
I dont know, to me it portray's them to how i allways see the chinese

Fiercely competative, incredibly smart buisness people.


I mean honestly, take a look at china. They're sitting there quietly - keeping a low profile, but while they make it look like its quiet and nothing interesting is going on.


In the meantime they're industry is booming like nothing the world has ever seen. Do you realise that china is now up to 23 billion in excess from mining facilities its setup in Aus? And this is not including all the land they've recently bought up - they havent had time to setup the mining facilities there!


That's only one side of it...


So them being presented the way they were in that video, i dont find racist at all. Moreso the smart side of them being portrayed thru the shadows - which is how i feel they're operating currently. Appear weak and insignificant when infact they are the oposite.

jackovesk
14th September 2011, 16:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohKz9OeiI0g&feature=youtu.be

Ron Paul: The Only One We Can Trust


Please view and share this with as many NON Ron Paul fans you can find. Not trying to preach to the choir... but to educate and inform those who don't know his (and the other candidates') history. Thanks

PS - Cmon America, this is both yours, and our last chance of any type of Liberty & Freedom again..!

Vote 1 - Ron Paul for 2012 Presidency

jackovesk
15th September 2011, 04:17
DemocracyNow.org - During the most recent Republican presidential debate on Monday, September 12th, Congressman Ron Paul of Texas drew boos and jeers from the crowd and his fellow debaters for his views on the roots of 9/11 attacks.

Dr. Paul criticized U.S. foreign policy as the catalyst stating, "we're under great threat because we occupy so many countries... We have to be honest with ourselves. What would we do if another country, say China, did to us what we do to all those countries over there?"

For more, Democracy Now! spoke with Professor Emeritus of Linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Noam Chomsky. Dr. Chomsky responded to Dr. Paul's comments by reciting the history of antagonism to US policy, concluding: "I think what he said is completely uncontroversial. You can read it in government documents."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e8-zSLkg0&feature=player_embedded

PS - It still amazes me, just how 'Mind Controlled' most of the American Public are..!

i.e.

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/signsplash.jpg

jackovesk
15th September 2011, 04:42
USA TODAY

Sept 14, 2011

A super PAC trying to help Texas Rep. Ron Paul is out with a new video deriding Rick Perry and Mitt Romney as “plastic men” while slamming the news media for making the GOP presidential nomination fight into a choice between “this pretty boy or that pretty boy.”

Revolution PAC is asking for donations to help run the ad in key primary states and plans what it’s calling a “super bomb” fundraiser for Sept. 19. Paul set fundraising records in the 2008 campaign with his targeted, “money bomb” fundraisers.

“The substantial differences between the GOP candidates are becoming increasingly clear,” says Tom Woods, chairman of Revolution PAC’s advisory board. “The question now becomes: Will the American people accept being governed by establishment-driven plastic men and automatons or will they opt for the constitutional consistency, incorruptibility and real economic foresight of Ron Paul?”

The video ad features animated renditions of Romney, signing Massachusetts’ health care law, as the announcer says the legislation was “praised by President Obama.” The Massachusetts health care law, like the national one signed by Obama, contains an insurance mandate. Romney is seen in the ad seated next to Obama, who slaps a gold star on Romney’s forehead, and House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi.

Full article here (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/09/ron-paul-super-pac-ad-rick-perry-mitt-romney-/1)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlYG6vh2T-M&feature=player_embedded

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-supporters-hit-perry-romney-in-new-ad.html

PS - Rick Perry 'Must be Held Accountable' for his enforcement of the Gardasil Vaccine..!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qLAIskTQXUc/TTDlCzW3DVI/AAAAAAAAF2M/oMdYaUKNpj4/s200/toxic-vaccine-dees.jpg

3 Girls Dead, Others Hospitalized from HPV Vaccine (http://www.activistpost.com/2011/09/3-girls-dead-others-hospitalized-after.html)

GMO Gardasil Responsible For Tumors & Other Disorders? (http://sanevax.org/sane-vax-inc-reports-human-papillomavirus-hpv-dna-contamination-in-gardasil-to-fda-requests-public-safety-investigation/)

Lord Sidious
15th September 2011, 05:18
Not just them jackonugget, most on the face of the planet at least in the west where we are ''so much better'' than everyone else.

shybastid
15th September 2011, 05:29
Dr. Paul criticized U.S. foreign policy as the catalyst stating, "we're under great threat because we occupy so many countries... We have to be honest with ourselves. What would we do if another country, say China, did to us what we do to all those countries over there?"

This is where,we as Americans are on a real slippery slope with citizens of the World. Our politicians preach a free democracy worldwide for the sake of the planet,while our covert operations plummel anyone who doesn't agree with out politics,and we'll use military force to defend those politics. For WHO?
American citizens are getting blamed for Global Politics, and the world see's either a Democrat,or Republican politician dictating forign policy to excuute the New World Order going into 2012.
And who can blame them?
Our political debacle is effecting the whole planet on so many different levels.

I'm not a Tea Partier,Repub,Dem, or really a Ron Paul supporter.

But as a citizen of EARTH, I sure as heck would like to feel I can visit Cuba, or France, or New Zealand without being told by the current regime in that territory,( NOTE: I did'nt say Country,look how many countries got their "names" sanctioned by the United Nations in the last 60 years)(how about last 200 years..Bavaria, Tibet anyone?) they're regional territories,and they kill people in ALL of them to protect religious and political adgena's.

I guess it goes back to how far in history you want to identify "ownership" of land and who's in charge.

America? How far... NOT the Spaniards and France..too far..

New York City? NOT Italians,Irish,Jews and Catholics,Irish Protesentants,Catholic Irishman. "Take that back to Ireland"
And they did. Our "melting pot" here in the U.S. was split up too. And they sent money home too.

Interesting thing about history. Who wrote it to tell to whom.

risveglio
16th September 2011, 21:14
If he is just one of them, why are they trying so hard to make sure nobody knows about him?

http://www.newsmax.com/DougWead/Conspiracy-Ron-Paul-Federal/2011/09/16/id/411246

Arrowwind
18th September 2011, 15:36
http://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/ron-paul-beats-perry-romney-to-win-california-gop-straw-poll/

T Smith
18th September 2011, 16:03
There is growing momentum to elect a representative for free humanity via the political process; however nobody is really talking about the NWO trump card here -- and that's electronic voting. If you truly follow Ron Paul and are interested in what's happening, this is the most important issue. Yet nobody really wants to talk about it.

Ron Paul could well win the vote, but unless we go back to a paper trail, he will never assume office.

Maia Gabrial
18th September 2011, 16:23
Ron Paul could well win the vote, but unless we go back to a paper trail, he will never assume office.

I think you're right, T Smith. How can we forget what happened in Nevada....? That's probably how many of the corrupt ones got into power.... Let's hope his good man, Ron Paul DOES make it to the presidency....

T Smith
18th September 2011, 16:46
If I were part of of Ron Paul's campaign, I would invest in:

1: Independent polling
2: Independent exit polling

I would continually publish these results and hype them. It's well documented that there is election fraud. Yet most people are unaware of it, or don't believe it to be a serious problem.

ktlight
20th September 2011, 09:50
Truth is Treason in the Empire of LIES. Ron Paul won ALL gop debates. Media continues to ignore Ron Paul (media conspiracy from the left & right paradigm). Paul is the front runner. The globalists are in a huge panic over the fact that the world is waking up to the crimes of the New World Order.

These are the figures

1 Ron Paul 44.9% 374
2 Rick Perry 29.3% 244
3 Mitt Romney 8.8% 74
4 Michele Bachmann 7.7% 64
5 Jon Huntsman 2.0% 17
6 Herman Cain 1.8% 15
7 Newt Gingrich 1.7% 14
8 Thad McCotter 0.8% 79
Rick Santorum 0.8% 7

HYMx6SjNFhQ

crosby
20th September 2011, 19:14
right on ktlight. the ptw will continue to ignore and hide the fact that ron paul is the front runner. and the simple reason why is: if he should become the president, all bets are off. their continued legacy of control and dominance will come to an absolute end. the more ron paul speaks, the more people shall awaken. that is something the ptw cannot fathom. i say: power to the people. power to ron paul........
regards, corson

risveglio
20th September 2011, 19:18
Ron Paul at Reno LPAC, introduced by Vince Vaughn - http://runronpaul.com/campaign-trail/ron-paul-reno-lpac-9-16-11-full-speech/

RMorgan
20th September 2011, 19:35
I just wonder what will actually happen to him if he wins...

You know, there´s some evidence out there pointing that election and voting results could be manipulated using some advanced hacking skills, ghost software, etc...

I think that if even with the media conspiracy against him, even with the possibility of frauds in the election process, he manages to win, his life would be seriously in danger.

He seems to be really a serious, stand-up man. I think the PTB wouldn´t like to have him as president...

Anyway, I´m a big fan of this guy. Believe me, if I was an US citizen, I would certainly vote for him.

I have a question for my US friends: Do you believe that there is a real possibility that RP may become your next president?

onawah
20th September 2011, 19:43
I think Obama will be re-elected, but he will have more freedom to act as he chooses, and I'd say it's likely he will acknowledge Ron Paul in some tangible form.

Moemers
20th September 2011, 20:15
Ron Paul will abolish funding to Planned Parenthood.

Don't Vote 2012.

risveglio
20th September 2011, 20:16
You just gave me one more reason to vote for him.

HORIZONS
20th September 2011, 20:43
If the Presidency were elected by the popular vote, and we used paper ballots, then I think Ron Paul could very well win -- but since we elect the President by electoral vote, and use electronic ballots, I think his chances are slim. I could see myself voting for him - if I decide to ever vote again. Now if it is up to tptb I think Obama or Rick Perry will get the nod - it would depend on if they need a right or left wing approach to finish US off. Somehow or another I still think Hillary is in the mix.

Lost Soul
20th September 2011, 20:57
Ron Paul will abolish funding to Planned Parenthood.

Don't Vote 2012.

So what if he does? Planned Parenthood was created by TPTB to limit population growth.

risveglio
20th September 2011, 21:13
I think Obama will be re-elected, but he will have more freedom to act as he chooses, and I'd say it's likely he will acknowledge Ron Paul in some tangible form.

I hope not. 12 years is enough of this guy.

http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2011/08/bush-20-100-ways-barack-obama-is-just.html

TigaHawk
20th September 2011, 21:28
Paul seems like a smart guy.


If he's to get elected, during his induction speech he should mention that he's pissed alot of rich people off by getting into the position that he's in, because he plans to remove all the benefits they dont need and take them down enough notches to make it fair (or so at least this picture doesnt stand to truth anymore) - While removing how much government there is, because we all know they're sticking their hands into too much and its un-necessary. AND he wants to make the TSA buy you dinner first, and require you're consent before they fondle you - which they'll never get so they may as well remove them and their body scanners and bring back the cute, and SUPERIOR beagles!

http://troll.me/images/y-u-no/us-government-y-u-no-tax-rich-people.jpg

If he was to give a public warning (one they wont know he's about to drop the bombshell in) where he states that by doing what he's doing he's going to piss of alot of "elites" - and that if he dies mysteriously, or is murderd, to not let the government continue screwing people over - if something were to happen to him - he'd become a Martyr - and all hell would break loose.

Ixopoborn
20th September 2011, 21:53
I am pleased Ron Paul is making good running so far. The next USA presidential elections will be very interesting indeed.

How will the media react to the bandwagon now up and running?
How will Obama react - will be get gross and attempt to take the election by stoking race riots across the country?
Will the election fiddlers be forced to be obvious in the use of their vote flipping technology?

Ron Paul looks like the candidate for disruption in the best possible sense.
Obama looks like the candidate for continuation of the current lies and distortions - he has already shown he has no stomach to fight the Washington controllers.

I know that as a Brit I am not qualified to interfere with what our US cousins must decide for themselves but oh boy how I hope for disruptive change for the better in the USA.

Dennis Leahy
20th September 2011, 22:11
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. As if the president was running the show anyway. ha! As if the global elite that use the US as a control room and launching pad and a money funnel would be deterred at all by either the process of him being on the ballot or being elected.

This is more circus, more entertainment, and more "hope is just over the next horizon" purposeful distraction. When Ron Paul's jaws are flapping, it is a pressure relief valve for the dissident energy, in a time when the only possible (3D, Earth-based, non-metaphysical) thing that can possibly stop the global elitists harbored in the US is to continue to bottle the rage of US citizens until there is enough explosive energy to let it all out at once.

Can't everyone see this is just another "hope" and "change" evangelist that will delay our political/apolitical awakening? What drama! Imagine pitting the original hope and change guy against the new hope and change guy! We'll sell lots of popcorn, peanuts, and Cracker-Jacks...bumper stickers...t-shirts...television commercial air time!

And in 2016...well, we may have to have an even newer, even better hope and change guy to distract us while we continue to be fleeced, controlled, poisoned, and remain a party to international bloodshed and destruction in our name.

Dennis

Maia Gabrial
20th September 2011, 22:19
http://rbth.ru/articles/2011/08/25/red_line_palestinian_state_chinese_economics-and-michele-bachmann-13298.html

The last thing they talk about on this video interview is Michele Backmann. What gets to me is that Ron Paul seems to be totally ignored by everyone in the medias, even this foreign station. It's almost as if this "Barbie doll" (actually more like a "BRATZ" doll) is being guaranteed as the next president. Honestly, I wouldn't vote for her. Not that I'd be adverse to a female president, but the way things are going, this wreaks of the elites' foul touch.... IMO they're not above using a female to justify the reasons for the complete downfall of the country.... IMO females can be outstanding leaders, too. But because of the times and corruptions, this WREAKS of TPTW.... And we all know that they DON'T have our interests at heart....
We need someone like Ron Paul with high integrity and courage to stand up to TPTW.

risveglio
20th September 2011, 22:20
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. As if the president was running the show anyway. ha! As if the global elite that use the US as a control room and launching pad and a money funnel would be deterred at all by either the process of him being on the ballot or being elected.

This is more circus, more entertainment, and more "hope is just over the next horizon" purposeful distraction. When Ron Paul's jaws are flapping, it is a pressure relief valve for the dissident energy, in a time when the only possible (3D, Earth-based, non-metaphysical) thing that can possibly stop the global elitists harbored in the US is to continue to bottle the rage of US citizens until there is enough explosive energy to let it all out at once.

Can't everyone see this is just another "hope" and "change" evangelist that will delay our political/apolitical awakening? What drama! Imagine pitting the original hope and change guy against the new hope and change guy! We'll sell lots of popcorn, peanuts, and Cracker-Jacks...bumper stickers...t-shirts...television commercial air time!

And in 2016...well, we may have to have an even newer, even better hope and change guy to distract us while we continue to be fleeced, controlled, poisoned, and remain a party to international bloodshed and destruction in our name.

Dennis


Comments like this is why our country is doomed. We have a legitimate candidate that wants to change things for the better. A man that speaks out against the Federal Reserve, the FDA, the corporatism (fascism) of government and big business and somehow you want to call him just another one of them. The man has been speaking out against the PTB for over 40 years but you just lump him in with the rest of the them. Who truly is the controlled opposition? People that fail to see when a man is promoting real change.

PHARAOH
20th September 2011, 22:27
Ron Paul, an idea who's time has come. WELCOME!!!

Marianne
20th September 2011, 22:40
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

Dennis

That's not a kind way to refer to people, Dennis. I understand people get frustrated with our absurd political system, but we can be civil, can't we?
Junebug

Martin
20th September 2011, 22:49
Is Ron Paul the real deal? Well, his record is "clean". His message is spot on and his vibes are sincere. So I would say he definitely stands for what he says. He is no second Obama and I am sure of that.

When the Obama-mania broke loose I asked myself: "What has he done?" When I look at Ron Paul I already know what he has done and yes he speaks the truth. Obama never did that. Ron Paul points right towards one of the main sources of all our problems (at the financial system, the federal reserve system) and in my book that counts very high, because there are very few people around who do just that.

So how one could possibly put him in the same box as Obama ... well I don't get it, but humble opinions all around.

BTW, is it true that the texas straw pool got cancelled because of lack of interest? If this is true than the TPTB really has to be scared. On another note: even if Ron Paul would be as fake as Obama. His message and ideas still are true and more than just worthwhile.

I have followed the developments in the US concerning Ron Paul pretty close in the last two weeks or so and it is so easy to spot what the media is trying to do there. Also there are more and more people waking up right now as they see the truth behind the words and ideas "of" Ron Paul. I don't know if we all are ready just yet, but I sure would hope so.


Martin

WhiteFeather
20th September 2011, 23:22
Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura,..... now that's a ticket i would actually vote for. David Icke For Secretary of State.

Snowbird
20th September 2011, 23:40
I have heard by way of the grapevine that there is something coming at Obama that will either force him to step down and not run or will nullify his chances if he does run. I have NO idea what it is, but I have heard that it is out there...in the great beyond.

Ron Paul may very well get the nod and then be unable to do anything that he wants done....that is IF, he really has the goals that he states. Who knows.

I'll bet it's his REAL birth certificate.

Martin
20th September 2011, 23:46
Hmm, the thing about "Ron Paul's message" is that in the end it is not about what he can do, but about what we want to do. It's not about parties, it is about freedom and liberty and both seem to be almost peculiar notions nowadays. Still, I just hope we will be ready in time or maybe trough time.


Martin

risveglio
20th September 2011, 23:51
Lets look at some old video's. Does consistency mean anything?

wZrXt7Z1ZmU

gk3FwJTjVi4

HORIZONS
21st September 2011, 02:13
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. As if the president was running the show anyway. ha! As if the global elite that use the US as a control room and launching pad and a money funnel would be deterred at all by either the process of him being on the ballot or being elected.

This is more circus, more entertainment, and more "hope is just over the next horizon" purposeful distraction. When Ron Paul's jaws are flapping, it is a pressure relief valve for the dissident energy, in a time when the only possible (3D, Earth-based, non-metaphysical) thing that can possibly stop the global elitists harbored in the US is to continue to bottle the rage of US citizens until there is enough explosive energy to let it all out at once.

Can't everyone see this is just another "hope" and "change" evangelist that will delay our political/apolitical awakening? What drama! Imagine pitting the original hope and change guy against the new hope and change guy! We'll sell lots of popcorn, peanuts, and Cracker-Jacks...bumper stickers...t-shirts...television commercial air time!

And in 2016...well, we may have to have an even newer, even better hope and change guy to distract us while we continue to be fleeced, controlled, poisoned, and remain a party to international bloodshed and destruction in our name.

Dennis

I understand where you are coming from DL but sooner or later someone has to stand up and be noticed, to take a stand, and then see if the the rest will stand with him and be counted. I would rather it be sooner than later, but it will have to be done. The alternative is for total collapse, chaos and destruction - I'd rather try and fix this mess while we still can, before we become completely controlled. It's not to late - we can do what we set our minds to do - it is the ptb that want us to do nothing. I would love to see someone worth voting for going for the big show - I am tired of seeing only the lesser of two evils in the race for Pres. RUN RON RUN!!!

Moemers
21st September 2011, 02:17
The crux of this thread is the idea that change is going to come in the form of a newly elected President.

Sad.

HORIZONS
21st September 2011, 02:21
If you could see some old vids of me back in my stoner days, playing hard rock in the clubs, with a "sex, drugs and rock-n-roll" t-shirt on you wouldn't want to have me as your neighbor - but if you knew me today you wouldn't mind it very much as I am a good neighbor - although I still like loud music at times. Moral: it is not a fair judgement of a man's character to judge him on some old info alone - you must get to know the man, see what he is about today, then make your judgement. People can and do change - when they want to.

jackovesk
21st September 2011, 02:27
I think Obama will be re-elected, but he will have more freedom to act as he chooses, and I'd say it's likely he will acknowledge Ron Paul in some tangible form.

I hope not. 12 years is enough of this guy.

http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2011/08/bush-20-100-ways-barack-obama-is-just.html

Don't worry risveglio,

There is 'Not a Fat Chance in HELL' Obama will win a 2nd Term in 2012..!

http://hogueprophecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/johnhogue.jpg

The only person I know who is dumb enough to believe the re-election of Obama in 2012 is the 'Tea Pot Prophet' John Hogue..!

HORIZONS
21st September 2011, 02:35
The crux of this thread is the idea that change is going to come in the form of a newly elected President.

Sad.

I disagree - change for the US has to start somewhere, and change needs to be followed up by actions - and this is a good place to start, and just maybe we will jump start something good - who knows. I would rather try and fail then not try at all. If the only choice we have left is the Right wing or the Left wing puppets, then we are done! And you might as well sign me up for the NWO and get on with the show. Then the crux of a new thread we find ourselves on might be that a comet will bring the change we can believe in and hope for.

161803398
21st September 2011, 02:45
Obama is a robot and he only has a manufacture date stamped on his ass. Ron Paul is the real deal from what I can see and hear. However, I think many people suffer 'daddy' complexes and wouldn't know what to do if freedom was given to them. In Canada the government numbers are in the "blue" pages and we say that some people believe all the problems in their life would be solved if they could only find the right telephone number in the blue pages.

Dennis Leahy
21st September 2011, 03:45
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. ...

Dennis


Comments like this is why our country is doomed. We have a legitimate candidate that wants to change things for the better. A man that speaks out against the Federal Reserve, the FDA, the corporatism (fascism) of government and big business and somehow you want to call him just another one of them. The man has been speaking out against the PTB for over 40 years but you just lump him in with the rest of the them. Who truly is the controlled opposition? People that fail to see when a man is promoting real change.



Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

Dennis

That's not a kind way to refer to people, Dennis. I understand people get frustrated with our absurd political system, but we can be civil, can't we?
Junebug

Let's examine this a little bit more closely:

The oligarchs have selected every major candidate for decades. This is done by solidifying the control of (at least) both final candidates, using the pretense of a 2-party system (where they control the finances of both parties.) You all do see that, right? Just like the Rothschilds backed both warring factions in the past two centuries.

If someone works for a defense contractor, building nuclear warheads, I say they support war. If someone owns stock in the warhead manufacturing corporation, I say they support war. The blinders are off. We should all be able to see very clearly now that there is only one political party in the US, not two, and it is owned by oligarchs. Cheer for either faux side of the faux two-party system, and I say that is supporting oligarchs. Please don't get lost in the "lesser of two evils" argument, (It is exactly what they want you to do), and don't pretend to see a 'champion of the people' rising out of the 1-owner/"2-party" system.

One fish two fish red fish blue fish. The oligarchs don't care which one wins because...

a.) usually, both final candidates are almost undoubtedly briefed as to who they will be working for ("fronting" for) if they win, and they acquiesce. If they don't acquiesce, they won't make it to the ballot.

b.) in case of a double-cross, or a champion of the people somehow being so popular that the oligarchs feel they would get caught if they flip votes electronically, and someone that is an enemy of the oligarchs wins the US presidency, they will simply kill him.

c.) there are 535 congresspersons (senators and representatives) - that's the legislative branch, one-third of the US government. Approximately 530 of them are owned by the oligarchs at any one time. There are about 500 federal judges and 9 supreme court justices with lifetime appointments - and they were appointed by Democrats and Republicans who were in turn controlled by oligarchs. That's the entire judicial branch of the US government, another one third of the government - and they are completely owned by the oligarchs. A good analogy of the power of a US president is the king on a chessboard. Think of a chess game with a king and a handful of pawns against an opponent with over 1000 queens, bishops, knights, and rooks on the board. US citizens have been trained to react favorably to celebrities, and due to media exposure, the celebrity president seems powerful - but he isn't, really.

So, my "bleating" comments are both aimed at the fact that people are still helping the oligarchs by pretending there are real elections and 2 real political parties, and aimed at people that focus on the presidential race of the US as if the president can change the nation.

In no way can adherence to or support of the farce of the current election system be considered a positive thing. I don't mean to hurt people's feelings, but there's a train coming and if I see someone standing on the tracks I will yell - and push them out of harm's way if I can.

In addition to the obvious oligarchs and corporatists and bankers and militarists that actually control the everyday working of government - that part which is publicly visible (and deeply disturbing, and painful), there is also the "shadow government" that runs all of the clandestine functionality - almost ALL of it illegal, amoral, unconscionable, predatory, and sociopathic. JFK tried to get the press to expose them, but the shadow government decided to expose JFK's cerebellum instead. The shadow government orchestrated 9/11, (arguably) the most significant event of our lifetimes and one which has resulted in the death of well over a million innocent people (and counting.) Even if you see a champion of the people arising, one that may not last long - a martyr who knows full wel he will be killed - wouldn't you want your champion to stand on the side of the truth of 9/11?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60TWZNVgtk

And, quite frankly, the US doesn't need a political martyr, or even a champion of the people (which would "disarm" citizens, temporarily quenching the fire in the belly of US for a real, significant change in governance.) We need a significant change in governance. And, the world need for the US to get significant change in governance.

Dennis

Jeffrey
21st September 2011, 04:03
This guy is great and so is this video! Thanks! "I am delighted to find out that the revolution is alive and well." -Ron Paul!

risveglio
21st September 2011, 04:12
So I guess the oligarchs set up Ron Paul to run 30 years ago. Could be the craziest thing I have ever read on this site. Yeah say all this stuff about us having a military industrial complex and becoming the police man of the world and about how we screw Americans everyday by manipulating money. Oh yeah, speak out against all our governmental organizations and about how we use our judicial system to control people. Yeah, its one great conspiracy, the guy has just been able to keep up the lie for 30 years. If anything maybe he is naive to attempt to make a change but that is better than sitting on the sidelines with a defeatist attitude that the oligarchy has already won, there is nothing we can do short of some GFL or magical comet to save the world. If you knew anything about the man you would know that he ran for President in '88 as a Libertarian and he has said in countless interviews that we do not have true democracy in our elections and he has no choice but to run as a republican. But lets go with your idea and just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of trying to get these ideas out. A message of freedom, liberty and peace. A message that would revive the love for the United States that the world once had. You know, when Syria wanted to be part of the US?

TelosianEmbrace
21st September 2011, 04:17
Baaaaa! Ron Baaaaa! Paul. Thanks, Dennis. Always up for a laugh. Seriously, though, Ron Paul is the best candidate of the lot and has been for a few election cycles now. One must also see the bigger picture, the Hegelian dialectic by which the ptw control through the so called democratic system. Then there is the even bigger picture, where I am flying on clouds, eating strawberry sundaes, and have no interest whatsoever in the outcome.
Be the change you wish to see in the world, the rest will look after itself.

Dennis Leahy
21st September 2011, 04:49
So I guess the oligarchs set up Ron Paul to run 30 years ago. Yeah say all this stuff about us having a military industrial complex and becoming the police man of the world and about how we screw Americans everyday by manipulating money. Oh yeah, speak out against all our governmental organizations and about how we use our judicial system to control people. Yeah, its one great conspiracy, the guy has just been able to keep up the lie for 30 years. If anything maybe he is naive to attempt to make a change but that is better than sitting on the sidelines with a defeatist attitude that the oligarchy has already won, there is nothing we can do short of some GFL or magical comet to save the world. If you knew anything about the man you would know that he ran for President in '88 as a Libertarian and he has said in countless interviews that we do not have true democracy in our elections and he has no choice but to run as a republican. But lets go with your idea and just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of trying to get these ideas out. A message of freedom, liberty and peace. A message that would revive the love for the United States that the world once had. You know, when Syria wanted to be part of the US?
First of all, FWIW, I agree that Ron Paul is the lesser of two evils, maybe even going as far as saying that he is the least oligarch-controlled candidate in decades - but that does not negate what I just said about the need for a change in governance rather than a change in (one) political personnel.



...lets go with your idea and just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of trying to get these ideas out.
You are misreading my words. I never said that.
Sitting on our hands won't help.
Doing nothing won't help.
Writing your congresspersons won't help.
Signing petitions won't help.
Voting for one of the two candidates the oligarchs pre-select for us won't help. (Even if you don't believe the oligarchs approved of and pre-selected Ron Paul.)
Asking the Galactic Federation for help won't help.

I do have some ideas about what would help. I thought about it for a long time, did a lot of research, and wrote the ideas down. I published them. The idea is a change in governance, not a change of governing personnel that are oligarch pre-approved replacements. These ideas would change the game completely - eliminating the oligarchs. It will take a lot of people, (perhaps the number of people that are supporting Ron Paul), working in concert, to make new ideas viable. So far, I'm not sure if the ideas are simply not disseminated enough, or if people are simply not ready to actually make the changes that people say they want to make. Maybe people would prefer to continue the cycle: bitch for 3 years, get politically excited for a year ending in voting, bitch for 3 years, get politically excited for a year ending in voting, ad infinitum. I'm still hoping enough people actually want to change governance, change the US, change the world. http://www.ResetButton2011.org

Dennis

Jeffrey
21st September 2011, 05:07
Ron Paul has constituents. The number of people that stand behind his principles and ideals is growing, and that's good considering what he stands for (liberty). If a man with such outstanding political values backed by morality and long term practicality gets elected then what's wrong with that? He's for all the right things. Utopia is not going to blossom from our current political (corporate) system, the next president, or, dare I say, Project Avalon. It will come in steps, and I believe Ron Paul is a step in the right direction. All you nay-sayers can come back at this post with everything that I am familiar with (and don't necessarily disagree with)... presidents have no real power, they are corporate puppets; elections are rigged and all we have is the illusion of choice; voters are numbed to the fact that they are mere cattle/sheeple in this oligarchy parading around as a democracy or republic and I'm just playing into the whole shebang! Fine. So what, you've researched the other side and found out the government is full of lies on every level and now you're above it (get over yourself), so instead of participating to enact change you get online and bitch about it and point the finger. Well, Ron Paul is pointing a finger too. It's his middle one, and he's pointing it at TPTB. Debate, discuss, rant, or politely exchange opinions and ideas, research, rinse, and repeat. At least Bill is out their working to promote change. You may discuss what you've come to know with your neighbor, the man standing next to you in the grocery store, or your mailman. Tell them about the Illuminati, the NWO, reptilians, ascension and government coverups. And that's just great, really, you are doing your part, chipping away one person at a time (with a great turnover rate I'm sure). The president has a bully pulpit and speaks to the entire nation! He isn't going to be a conspiracy theorist, or alternative media head! If Dr. Paul has the voice of the people as the President, I'd say that's just fine considering the mess we are in right now. Oh, yea, the whole deal about pointing the finger and bitching, yea, I'm doing it right now, but that's because I'm a hypocrite. If you feel this post is directed at you then you will probably feel the need to defend yourself because you have all the answers, and I am, admittedly, an idiot. I really like PA and I hope I didn't piss on anyones shoes, but I really had to go. Thank you very much, and goodnight!

risveglio
21st September 2011, 05:08
I'll read your reset button idea but from glancing over it I am not sure how confident I can be in the idea. We have not had true free market capitalism in this country since the late 1800s if at all and capitalism is responsible for taking more people out of poverty than any other form of government. Socialism has been responsible for oppressing the largest amount of people and most of our domestic problems are a direct result of piss poor socialist ideas, whether it be the New Deal programs that extended the Great Depression or the government involvement in medicine, education, the environment, etc.

As for Ron Paul, since I know the man personally, I can assure you that he is not part of the system. I guess in your mind that means he has no chance to win. He is genuine and the real deal so why not bother to swallow your pride and vote for him. If he wins and nothing changes, then you can push your reset idea to the world.

Ixopoborn
21st September 2011, 08:47
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. As if the president was running the show anyway. ha! As if the global elite that use the US as a control room and launching pad and a money funnel would be deterred at all by either the process of him being on the ballot or being elected.

This is more circus, more entertainment, and more "hope is just over the next horizon" purposeful distraction. When Ron Paul's jaws are flapping, it is a pressure relief valve for the dissident energy, in a time when the only possible (3D, Earth-based, non-metaphysical) thing that can possibly stop the global elitists harbored in the US is to continue to bottle the rage of US citizens until there is enough explosive energy to let it all out at once.

Can't everyone see this is just another "hope" and "change" evangelist that will delay our political/apolitical awakening? What drama! Imagine pitting the original hope and change guy against the new hope and change guy! We'll sell lots of popcorn, peanuts, and Cracker-Jacks...bumper stickers...t-shirts...television commercial air time!

And in 2016...well, we may have to have an even newer, even better hope and change guy to distract us while we continue to be fleeced, controlled, poisoned, and remain a party to international bloodshed and destruction in our name.

Dennis


Comments like this is why our country is doomed. We have a legitimate candidate that wants to change things for the better. A man that speaks out against the Federal Reserve, the FDA, the corporatism (fascism) of government and big business and somehow you want to call him just another one of them. The man has been speaking out against the PTB for over 40 years but you just lump him in with the rest of the them. Who truly is the controlled opposition? People that fail to see when a man is promoting real change.

I agree that scepticism is very necessary in all this but ... the USA must elect someone as president! :)

Ron Paul has faults and may not be up to the job and I think we all understand that the role of US President has become much diminished over the past 50 years. In that sense, we should not get too exited about any presidential candidate but ... Ron Paul does look like a very interesting choice from where I stand.

The sentiment with which I fully agree is that this time Americans need to get fully engaged and not again go to sleep after electing a new guy as President.

Martin
21st September 2011, 12:28
First of all, FWIW, I agree that Ron Paul is the lesser of two evils, maybe even going as far as saying that he is the least oligarch-controlled candidate in decades - but that does not negate what I just said about the need for a change in governance rather than a change in (one) political personnel.



...lets go with your idea and just sit on our hands and do nothing instead of trying to get these ideas out.
You are misreading my words. I never said that.
Sitting on our hands won't help.
Doing nothing won't help.
Writing your congresspersons won't help.
Signing petitions won't help.
Voting for one of the two candidates the oligarchs pre-select for us won't help. (Even if you don't believe the oligarchs approved of and pre-selected Ron Paul.)
Asking the Galactic Federation for help won't help.

I do have some ideas about what would help. I thought about it for a long time, did a lot of research, and wrote the ideas down. I published them. The idea is a change in governance, not a change of governing personnel that are oligarch pre-approved replacements. These ideas would change the game completely - eliminating the oligarchs. It will take a lot of people, (perhaps the number of people that are supporting Ron Paul), working in concert, to make new ideas viable. So far, I'm not sure if the ideas are simply not disseminated enough, or if people are simply not ready to actually make the changes that people say they want to make. Maybe people would prefer to continue the cycle: bitch for 3 years, get politically excited for a year ending in voting, bitch for 3 years, get politically excited for a year ending in voting, ad infinitum. I'm still hoping enough people actually want to change governance, change the US, change the world. http://www.ResetButton2011.org

Dennis


I will read up on your site when I have time, but for now it seems to me that technically you are pretty near to the "side of" Ron Paul.

Because what Ron Paul is proposing is also a reset button. He would probably prefer the term republic over democracy but I don't want to be nitpicky here.

But all that really matters for now is that Ron Paul points out the important and problematic aspects that helped to solidify the current status quo and before any real chance can come about the people need to have these issues in their field of view. That is one major thing that he tried to accomplish over more than 30 years.

He does not want to govern you, but he wants you to see that we should govern ourself and that is what you are saying, right?

The problem is that people today just do not know how the system really works and till this changes there can be no real progress anyway.

Edit: Concerning the "RP denies 9/11 thing". Well, it is obvious how he would not just say, yes there is a conspiracy and it probably was an inside job. again it should be pretty obvious why he would not make a statement like that in an interview. But he said that there probably was a cover up during the "investigation" of 9/11 and that it should be reinvestigated. Sometimes you just have to work with what you got and for the most part that is a "ignorant and docile" population guided by a massmedia system willing to spin every last drop of truth until one gets sick by just looking at it from afar.

Martin

Dennis Leahy
21st September 2011, 16:44
So I guess the oligarchs set up Ron Paul to run 30 years ago. Could be the craziest thing I have ever read on this site.

Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Cynthia McKinney... there are a few that appear to be "of the people." From all indications, they are not just allowed to hold a few places, they appear to be encouraged to emote their passion. How does it affect us, and what does it do for the oligarchs? For us, these folks are the illusion that the people's side (the sane side) of major issues are being addressed - but they are not, really. For the oligarchs, these few provide that illusion of a governing body infused with a healthy debate, as well as providing a distraction and pressure relief valve for citizens. So, no, I don't believe the oligarchs initiated these people's political careers, but they serve a purpose and that is why they are not opposed (for a period of time, or while they stay within certain parameters.) For example, Alan Grayson grilled Bernanke about the Fed and laughed in his face at the answers. That was a bit over-the-top, and the oligarchs made sure he got dismissed in the following election.

By the way, I haven't told anyone not to vote for Ron Paul. What I actually said was... well, if anyone is interested in what I said, they can read it without me reiterating.

Dennis

Camilo
21st September 2011, 16:47
Ron paul rocks!!!...

johnf
21st September 2011, 16:52
ron Paul is against any and all government regulation. That is a pure gift of unfettered regulation to big business.

risveglio
21st September 2011, 16:57
ron Paul is against any and all government regulation. That is a pure gift of unfettered regulation to big business.

The regulators help big business not hurt it. The regulators make it very hard for small to medium sized businesses to hire. Take a look at what the regulators have done to Schiff's company, giving him fines for hiring too many people. What good did the regulators do during the last financial crisis? They were too busy watching porn while the Fed, the Banks and Fannie and Freddie were making shady deals. Government regulation is a major part of the problem.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/had-enough-government-regulation-yet

T Smith
21st September 2011, 18:45
Silly bleating people. "ron paul ron paul ron paul"

All these silly people are part of the grand delusion, further propping up the pseudo-two-party, quasi-democratic republic, faux electoral mechanism. As if the president was running the show anyway. ha! As if the global elite that use the US as a control room and launching pad and a money funnel would be deterred at all by either the process of him being on the ballot or being elected.

This is more circus, more entertainment, and more "hope is just over the next horizon" purposeful distraction. When Ron Paul's jaws are flapping, it is a pressure relief valve for the dissident energy, in a time when the only possible (3D, Earth-based, non-metaphysical) thing that can possibly stop the global elitists harbored in the US is to continue to bottle the rage of US citizens until there is enough explosive energy to let it all out at once.

Can't everyone see this is just another "hope" and "change" evangelist that will delay our political/apolitical awakening? What drama! Imagine pitting the original hope and change guy against the new hope and change guy! We'll sell lots of popcorn, peanuts, and Cracker-Jacks...bumper stickers...t-shirts...television commercial air time!

And in 2016...well, we may have to have an even newer, even better hope and change guy to distract us while we continue to be fleeced, controlled, poisoned, and remain a party to international bloodshed and destruction in our name.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I respectfully think you are wrong in your assessment here. However, I do agree with you that Ron Paul (or any other political aspirant) will not deter the global elite that uses the US as a control room and launching pad and as a money funnel. On this point we are in full agreement. Ron Paul will not deter them (not because he's part of the system) but because they will not let him assume the office. There are just so many cards they can play to make certain of this. And even if he did assume office, they could destroy him immediately, literally or figuratively, whichever way suits their particular pleasure.

If this were a circus, entertainment, and just another chapter of "hope" and "change" to placate the restless masses and to steam-valve their rage while our overlords continue to roll out the enslavement grid, there would be some evidence that TPTB were sponsoring this movement. Those of us who fully understand the dynamic you describe saw right through the Obama campaign and understand all our candidates are selected. TPTB wanted Obama; they want nothing to do with Ron Paul. But just because he is a rogue actor does not mean Ron Paul is a threat to them. He is simply not yet a real problem and there are other ways to make sure they "select" someone else for us to choose.

As far as I can see, what's happening here is a genuine uprising, the energy of which derives from outside the scope of control or influence of TPTB (at this point anyway), not unlike protests against the Vietnam war, or not unlike other protests where a group spontaneously coalesces against some form of oppression. This populist uprising is somewhat more focused (and not yet violent or even viewed as an uprising, per se) because it is being channeled via the political process. This is a unique situation because we all know the political process is merely a staged theater of performing puppets. But what happens when the lead puppet attempts to seize the ventriloquist, unbeknownst to a majority of the audience who has no idea that they are actually watching a show?

In theory, the Revolutionary War was a similar challenge against the power structure, but it took the TPTB no time to immediately quell that little fit and actually use the populist uprising to their advantage, namely by instilling the false belief in the people that they had won their war and were now free. At best, the Revolutionary War was a battle won, depending how you view the history of it, but for sure it was a battle in an overall war that has been long ago lost by the people and won by the power structure.

The "hope and change" we might expect out of this little episode, if the uprising continues to gain steam, is that TPTB will have to respond in full by blocking Ron Paul from the dyanmic you describe and will therefore risk exposing themselves to the greater masses of unsuspecting people. If we can get them out from behind the curtain, that’s a major victory as far as I’m concerned. In any case, they will have to play their cards to make sure Ron Paul does not sack the ventriloquist, so to speak, which would be a feet achieved by stealth, as far as the masses who understand these things are concerned. The power structure sees this possibility coming and will under no circumstances allow Ron Paul to assume the office of President and exercise an assumed proxy that exists only in the minds of the sleeping people. They will under no circumstances allow him to influence the other puppets on the stage, some of whom have no idea they are even puppets at all. If you challenge the proxy you risk waking the people.

So personally, I feel an expose of the power structure is the real “hope and change” at play here. And to some degree this is happening. The low card, which is being played now, is the media blackout coupled with the narrative that "he can't win". A lot of people buy this nonsense. But a lot of people are awakening to the fact that some elusive power is playing their hand against Ron Paul. Who? And why? A slightly higher card to play (if in when their low card doesn't work) is outright election fraud, per the Joseph Stalin model that it matters not who casts the vote, but rather, who "counts" the vote. Election Fraud would be quite easy and if you ask me, I think this is the ultimate trump card the power structure will play. They will have to play this card because Ron Paul can and likely will win the vote. They know this. But so long as they have published misleading polls and have successfully peddled the narrative that "he can't win", none will be the wiser and his loss at the polls will not be an issue. Nothing to see here. Move along folks, move along.

But let's just say, by some unforeseen measure, that the public at large becomes aware of the possibility of election fraud. Let’s just assume for sake of illustration that TPTB cannot quell a political victory playing their low cards. There is always the false flag/strawman solution against virtually every position Ron Paul takes. The havoc they could inflict against the public’s budding and lukewarm embrace of free society based on self determination would likely put an end to any political movement associated with free humanity once and for all. Then of course, there is always the JFK solution, and this time around they have technology that doesn't even require a charade or cover-up, unless they are specifically and boldly going the hardcore JFK route as a specific message to others who might be inspired by Ron Paul as some kind of martyr.

I take interest in this election because I honestly don't think the left/right paradigm is at play here. There is something else afoot. Watching closely serves a close-up, intimate study of TPTB in action 101, as they respond in real time. And hey, there is always the unlikely Black Swan event whereby David takes down Goliath. I won’t rule it out and I will do what I can to make it happen. But that’s the extent of my getting rapped up in the drama…

161803398
21st September 2011, 19:15
I have often wondered what Ron Paul could do in the face of the criminals who seem to be running things at the moment. I don't have an answer to that but what I do know is that society is on the wrong track altogether and most people feel that they do not know what to do about it. Even if they see it, they do not know how to stop it. One thing that is very important when dealing with a problem is to go at it with the right perspective or philosophy. People have gotten into such a habit of looking to the government for everything..some even believe they should love their government. And government just keeps getting bigger and bigger. THIS is insane.

What Ron Paul is asking people to do is to be their own daddy. I agree with this. We should be our own Martin Luther Kings and our own Rainbow Warriors.

I don't know if anyone here remembers the times long ago when people did things to help other people for free. It was regarded as part of our social responsibility. People are off that now and everything is money. This is, in part, because the cost of having a "daddy" government is enormous. GET RID OF DADDY and we can start leading our own lives.

T Smith
21st September 2011, 19:21
ron Paul is against any and all government regulation. That is a pure gift of unfettered regulation to big business.

I believe you are misinformed. At the root of this issue is a basic philosophical question. Are we or can we be free? Or do we need overlords? I'll grant you that it is counter-intuitive to tackle this issue, because we now live under the yoke of oppressive facism and none of us can fathom giving any more "freedom" to our masters who oppress us and steal from us.

But the truth is, in a truly free society, big business could not concentrate in power. There could be no fascism. Free association with well-established and well-enforced contractual obligations between parties provides for amble regulation and is in no way condusive to the growth of facism.

Ironically, government regulation (as a pretext to reign in big business) is actually the biggest and best gift to big business. It allows business to continually concentrate and grow ever powerful and fashion the very regulations meant to reign them in. When one begins to see this dynamic in the abstract, the only way to extinguish the fire that is consuming us all is to stop feeding it oxygen. In this scenario, government, regulations, mandates, and well-intended regulations play the role of oxygen.

T Smith
21st September 2011, 20:43
The crux of this thread is the idea that change is going to come in the form of a newly elected President.

Sad.

I think that is too simplistic an explanation of what the crux of this tread is.

The idea I see emerging here is that some comentators committed to electing a political figure who represents the people as opposed to the power structure view the materialization of change in the form of engaging the power structure. Grant it, engagement via the policital process is an unlikely dynamo, but I don't see anything sad about trying.

crosby
21st September 2011, 20:49
The crux of this thread is the idea that change is going to come in the form of a newly elected President.

Sad.

in my opinion the crux of this thread is 'change' is coming whether we have a new president or not...... it is not localized to the left/right paradigm. change is change. if ron paul opens the eyes of just one sleeper then he has done the right thing.
regards, corson

Martin
21st September 2011, 21:00
Thank you T Smith, if english would be my native language then I really would be glad if I could express my thoughts as clear as you. :P I think I literally have never agreed more with a Poster of this forum.


Martin

T Smith
21st September 2011, 21:37
Let's examine this a little bit more closely:

The oligarchs have selected every major candidate for decades. This is done by solidifying the control of (at least) both final candidates, using the pretense of a 2-party system (where they control the finances of both parties.) You all do see that, right? Just like the Rothschilds backed both warring factions in the past two centuries.

If someone works for a defense contractor, building nuclear warheads, I say they support war. If someone owns stock in the warhead manufacturing corporation, I say they support war. The blinders are off. We should all be able to see very clearly now that there is only one political party in the US, not two, and it is owned by oligarchs. Cheer for either faux side of the faux two-party system, and I say that is supporting oligarchs. Please don't get lost in the "lesser of two evils" argument, (It is exactly what they want you to do), and don't pretend to see a 'champion of the people' rising out of the 1-owner/"2-party" system.

Yes, of course. But I'm still confused. Who are you implying disagrees or doesn't understand this? We all know this. Challenging the "one-party" system that has selected the candidates since the dawn of time is the first step to whatever new solution there is. This is the language the people understand. Let them use it.




a.) usually, both final candidates are almost undoubtedly briefed as to who they will be working for ("fronting" for) if they win, and they acquiesce. If they don't acquiesce, they won't make it to the ballot.

b.) in case of a double-cross, or a champion of the people somehow being so popular that the oligarchs feel they would get caught if they flip votes electronically, and someone that is an enemy of the oligarchs wins the US presidency, they will simply kill him.

c.) there are 535 congresspersons (senators and representatives) - that's the legislative branch, one-third of the US government. Approximately 530 of them are owned by the oligarchs at any one time. There are about 500 federal judges and 9 supreme court justices with lifetime appointments - and they were appointed by Democrats and Republicans who were in turn controlled by oligarchs. That's the entire judicial branch of the US government, another one third of the government - and they are completely owned by the oligarchs. A good analogy of the power of a US president is the king on a chessboard. Think of a chess game with a king and a handful of pawns against an opponent with over 1000 queens, bishops, knights, and rooks on the board. US citizens have been trained to react favorably to celebrities, and due to media exposure, the celebrity president seems powerful - but he isn't, really.


How do you propose to expose the reality of a, b & c to those without your particular understanding of the system? Why does the celebrity president seem powerful if he's not? Because the people, who collectively represent the only force on the planet who can ultimately reform a system controlled by oligarchs, are fully unconscious, drugged, and under the influence of a false paradigm of reality. In short, they believe the election process is real. Let them discover it's not on their own... or maybe, just maybe, reform it by trying. Who are we to say it can't be done? Just because it never has been done? Just because they are too powerful and have fully controlled the system since forever ago? I sincerely believe that no power currently operating on this planet is more powerful than humanity united and awake. And if I'm wrong about this, I'm willing to accept it with eyes wide open rather than continue on in denial and resign to the controlling power. If there is another way for the whole of humanity to engage this power, what is it? I submit that whatever it is, this little episode, which you view as futile, is the prerequisite.

Maia Gabrial
22nd September 2011, 00:10
The military ordered Obama underground September 26th (?)
I guess the "Clone must go home....

Dennis Leahy
22nd September 2011, 01:58
...maybe, just maybe, reform it by trying. Who are we to say it can't be done? Just because it never has been done? Just because they are too powerful and have fully controlled the system since forever ago? I sincerely believe that no power currently operating on this planet is more powerful than humanity united and awake. And if I'm wrong about this, I'm willing to accept it with eyes wide open rather than continue on in denial and resign to the controlling power. If there is another way for the whole of humanity to engage this power, what is it?
I'm all for trying. Please don't confuse me with someone who isn't trying. My way of trying is different. I have tried to find the underlying problems and propose solutions, rather than deal on the political surface.


If there is another way for the whole of humanity to engage this power, what is it?
The whole of humanity is beyond my scope. I don't pretend to have a clue (other than adherence to some sort of Universal laws of human rights and respect for all life forms) how to solve problems in France or Zimbabwe, and have focused on the US, my home country (and the key player in most respects, on the geopolitical world stage.) My ideas about "what is it" to engage US citizens in US governance are outlined in The Reset Button document.



I find myself flying off in several directions at once here. I'll try to pick one.

If the topic is "rah rah Ron Paul", I'm a dissenter, but not for the typical reasons (loyalty to a different candidate, or seeing this candidate as flawed.)

For those that believe Ron Paul is a significant step forward: If elected, you do realize he will be surrounded by and hogtied by 535 oligarch henchmen Democrat and Republican senators and representatives, and about the same number of lifetime appointed oligarch henchmen wearing judicial robes. With control of only one of the three branches of government, and especially due to having no control over the legislative branch - where concepts becomes laws - it should be easy to see that Ron Paul would be unable to do anything novel. All laws are currently (and until a major change in election laws) written by oligarch-controlled legislators.

Just take a minute to honestly and clearly imagine Ron Paul authoring legislation abolishing the Federal Reserve, and handing that to Congress. Knowing that the vast majority of Congresspersons have been sponsored into office by the same international/national bankers that own the Federal Reserve, what do you know would be the outcome of the legislation? Is this observation nay-saying, or a reality-check?

There are many many people locked into the mindset that the underlying system cannot be changed (or they never even imagined trying at that level.) So, they just do what can be done within the existing system. For them, the current system of governance, (based on celebrity/special humans, evidently believed to possess specialized innate insights into governance and leadership), provides a pool of leaders/rulers for the rest of us, rather than relying on wise rules/laws. Most people do not find this mindset to be strange or unacceptable (or have never ventured "outside the box.") So, we vote for the best celebrity presented to us, thus selecting our leaders. Leaders lead. We follow.

Is this really the best we can do? I'm challenging this mindset, not Ron Paul as an individual. Please read the section titled "Rule by Rules, Not by Rulers" on page 14 of the Reset Button document (http://www.resetbutton2011.org/Documents/ResetButton.pdf) and you'll have a full explanation of why the method for selecting elected officials needs to change, why electing "special" or celebrity individuals rather than ordinary citizens is never going to be the representative voice of the people.

Explore the document further (especially Phase I) and you'll see a possible legal mechanism to remove oligarchs from the electoral process, and give ordinary citizens sovereignty and control of governance.

Dennis

jackovesk
23rd September 2011, 04:58
Ron Paul: Jon Stewart helped make my case...

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1203881520523&id=7740a1ecf5942f10a8338455b8203083&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.freedomsphoenix.com%2fUploads %2fGraphics%2f001-1117091307-Jon-Stewart-Daily-Show.jpg

Eric W. Dolan
Raw Story
Sept 22, 2011

Texas Congressman Ron Paul (R) on Wednesday said The Daily Show host Jon Stewart helped boost media coverage of his presidential candidacy.

“I think that another person that kind of made my case was Jon Stewart,” he told reporters at a breakfast sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor. “How could anything be more dramatic than what Jon Stewart did?”

After Paul came in second place in the Ames Straw Poll in Iowa, Stewart noted he had not received the media attention he deserved.

Confirming his suspicion, a Pew Research Center report found that Paul was mentioned just 29 times in the days following the Ames Straw Poll, while Rick Perry was mentioned 371 times, Michelle Bachmann was mentioned 274 times and Mitt Romney was mentioned 183 times.


“I don’t take it personally, and I know how it works, but I’m always wanting to make an excuse because I think people just flat-out don’t understand me,” Paul added. “They don’t understand what I’m talking about. But the people who do get super excited about it.”

Watch video, courtesy of ForaTV, below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plQdDfMbbuI&feature=player_embedded

John Stewart exposing the MSM..!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUXBz6AGJFM

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/stewart-how-did-ron-paul-become-the-13th-floor-in-an-hotel/

PS - Clarification (I am Not a John Stewart Fan) - Clarification (But, I am a HUGE Fan of Ron Paul).

I urge you to watch the video above of Ron Paul giving Kudos to John Stewart (The Daily Show) for acknowledging the 'MSM Rigged Game'..!

More IMPORTANTLY just listen to the Honesty/Tell It Like It Is approach from Ron Paul who is Honest & Humble enough to publically ackowledge his own faults...


Paul added. “They don’t understand what I’m talking about. But the people who do get super excited about it.”


This further compounds what most already know, Ron Paul is a Man of Integrity & True Leader..!

Those of you who know what Ron Paul stands for don't need reminding of his 'Perfect Voting Record', but for those of you who are now starting learn about this Presidential Candidate from Texas you 'WILL NOT' find a more Genuine Honest Politician 'ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD'..!

GlassSteagallfan
23rd September 2011, 05:20
If everyone understood how the media operates as such here, there would be a huge pile of TV's in the street!

Calz
24th September 2011, 12:36
Have to love the "Shame on us" from CNN Jack regarding lack of attention by MSM on RP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3EptrKOms&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg3EptrKOms&feature=related

Cidersomerset
24th September 2011, 13:06
Thanks...Calz....Even if Ron Paul had a land slide majority would the corporate lobbyist let him in the white house ?

I fear judging by what members have reported on here although Ron Paul is doing great !!! Why have I got the feeling

the media must be ignoring him because their bosses and their 'masters' are telling them to do so....

Watch 'Rubicon' and you will see how evil power is.........I hope I'm wrong and the american public will not be conned

as in Bush/Gore election .Though I don't think the result would have mattered as the top politions of the last 50 years

have been in the corporate pocket. Paul is different and they know it.......If by some miracle he got in he would be I'm

afriad a 'Dead Man Walking' President....Although his overall politics are right wing of mine. Its not so much his politics

the world needs right now it is a MAN/WOMAN with extreme intergrity to their fellow human beings .....Cheers Steve

Coaxial
24th September 2011, 13:11
He has every chance if we as an enlightened people maintain the momentum and not let MSM refer to him using nothing but vague sub-references...:censored:

norman
24th September 2011, 13:21
Even if they still run him off the road, the value for the cause of bringing an end to the tyranny, in his running in this campaign, is enormous.

The blatant weopanisation of the TV channels is going to stir a lot of people to their feet.

After all, even the laziest couch potatoe isn't going to want to sit in front of a loaded weapon pointing straight at them for ever.

Calz
24th September 2011, 14:04
MSM pulled the same crap in 2008 but more and more people are awakening to the nonsense.

Enough to make a difference?

Perhaps. With so many still asleep having control over all MSM makes for a uphill battle.

jackovesk
26th September 2011, 18:10
The Hill: Perry To Drop Out, Ron Paul To Be Romney’s Rival

Congressman Paul is Republican’s only chance of success against Obama

Monday, September 26, 2011

The implosion of Rick Perry’s presidential campaign has opened the door for Congressman Ron Paul to move up into second place and go head to head with Mitt Romney – that the prediction from The Hill, one of Washington’s most respected political newspapers.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001860569/5252589063_romneyPaul_xlarge.png

Alex Jones explained (http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-is-half-a-step-from-first-place/) why the momentum behind Ron Paul’s campaign has him firmly challenging as a top tier candidate on the Sunday show, and it’s a view increasingly being acknowledged by even mainstream political commentators.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyx7Mkb5uDU&feature=player_embedded

Writing for The Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/183807-when-rick-perry-drops-out-ron-paul-could-be-second-place-republicans-enter-the-wild-west), Capitol Hill’s most widely circulated newspaper, Brent Budowsky sounds the death knell for Rick Perry’s campaign.


“I wrote in August that Rick Perry will self-destruct within 30 days.

His prospects for the presidency were as phony as the fantasy of a two-person race was false. Perry is a phony conservative who is not conservative. He is a pay-for-play politician who gobbled up Obama stimulus like a hound dog eating a bone, and created oceans of new government jobs in Texas while his big donors mysteriously received big government contracts. The Texas deficit ballooned and the Texas jobless rate doubled on Rick Perry’s watch,” writes Budowsky.

“I will not speculate about the reasons for Rick Perry’ s strange, weird and incoherent debate performance.

Major new negative stories about Perry will soon emerge in the media. Trust me. Perry will drop out long before the year ends. If he dropped out today Ron Paul could well be in second place. Will pundits say it is a two-man race between Romney and Paul?”

As we have documented, the only thing standing between Paul and Romney is an admitted establishment media strategy to ignore the very existence of the Congressman’s campaign.

Now that this hoax is quickly dissolving, Paul is set to be provided with the perfect platform from which to launch an assault on Romney’s lead in the national polls.

An an establishment RINO Republican, someone who has pushed big government policies equally as horrendous as anything Obama ever did, Romney’s chances of defeating the President are negligible. If he wins the Republican candidacy, Romney will only energize the hordes of Obamanoids to re-emerge and return Obama to the White House.

The same goes for Sarah Palin if she ever gets around to throwing her hat in the ring. Even aside from damaging recent revelations about her private life, Obama’s slick talk would absolutely cream Palin in the presidential debates and she would become a nationwide laughing stock overnight.

Polls have shown that while establishment Republicans have all lost popular approval at a similar pace to Obama, Ron Paul already has the numbers to be within striking distance of defeating Obama in a head to head run off – and that’s before he’s even been afforded one half of the national platform the media has bestowed upon Perry and Romney.


Once Ron Paul’s message is allowed to be heard, he will absolutely trounce Obama.

Only Ron Paul offers enough of an alternative to four more years of Obama to give the Republicans a chance of any success in 2012. Only Ron Paul’s solutions for returning America to sound money principles can begin to reverse decades of Republicans and Democrats allowing the nation’s economic base to be disastrously undermined.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-hill-perry-to-drop-out-ron-paul-to-be-romneys-rival.html

PS - I could not have penned this article better myself, its exactly in line with what I have been trying to tell you guys about how Fake & Phony Rick Perry is...

If you can stomach it..? Watch Rick Perry's Phony & Wierd performance was at the GOP Presidential Debate in Orlando, FL — September 22, 2011...

It was like (He wasn't all there...) Mind Controlled? Not sure...I think he is just plain 'DUMB'..!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XitvtG-654Y&feature=player_embedded

Link...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XitvtG-654Y&feature=player_embedded

Can't wait for the the 'DIRT' to the surface on any Bought & Paid For NWO Globalist Puppett..!


Writing for The Hill, Brent Budowsky

"Major new negative stories about Perry will soon emerge in the media. Trust me. Perry will drop out long before the year ends."

crosby
26th September 2011, 18:13
excellent. this is getting exciting.
regards, corson

Cidersomerset
26th September 2011, 18:23
Thanks Jackovesk....Well Juan Williams still won't acknowledge he has a real chance of winning , and thinks he will fall away because he does not follow usual republican policies.

Obviously TPTB are worried they won't be able to control Paul like they will the other candidates, who are probably already in debt to them......

Mike
26th September 2011, 18:24
a little off-topic, but i gotta say mate: that blue and red lettering is fu#kin wonderful!

there's something vaguely hypnotic about it that i have no qualms with succumbing to.

Mk-ULTRA take notes!

humanalien
26th September 2011, 21:56
I think that donald trump is going to run for president to,
so he will knock out ron paul, unfortunately.

jackovesk
27th September 2011, 05:54
Ron Paul: Time to De-Recognize the United Nations


Ron Paul Quote:

"Personally I wish the United States would 'De-Recognize' the United Nations, as most readers would already know in every Congress I enter legislation that would End our Memembership in that Organisation!

The UN is a 'Threat to our Sovereignty' and as we are the 'Main Source of its Income' it is a 'Threat to our Economic Wellbeing'..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=697ZOIq34OE&feature=player_embedded

jackovesk
27th September 2011, 15:18
Ron Paul Daily Show Interview pt 1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jzEscsMqBk

Ron Paul Daily Show Interview pt 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQvo684hIE

PS - Great & Fair interview, thanks Ron & John

PSS - Keep 'Chippin Away' Ron Paul - Your message IS getting out there and 'You Can Win'..!

Cidersomerset
27th September 2011, 15:25
Good one Jackvesk.....

THIRDEYE
27th September 2011, 15:33
i woulud just like to say is that ron paul is a extreme leftist...not in a negative way...hes taken several strwpolls...and he ha s a chance to win the primaries....he believes in the constsitution... now if 80% of americans voted for ron i dont think he would make president....the powers to be are scared of ron paul....and they wont let him be president ....it wouldnt surprise me that he gets wacked in some sort of way...he is a threat to the powers to be...i myself will certainly vote for him...just food for thought...love light and abundance...thirdeye...;

Cidersomerset
27th September 2011, 15:44
I agree Third eye they won't let him be president, but its strange peoples perception. I admire him for his dignity and honesty to the public and he stands by his principles, what I know of his politics he would be to the right of the conservatives overhere , equivelent to say Mrs. Thatcher so would have a hard time getting in. I've heard him say he is a Reagan republican..

He sure seems a nice man though.....steve

risveglio
27th September 2011, 16:36
I agree Third eye they won't let him be president, but its strange peoples perception. I admire him for his dignity and honesty to the public and he stands by his principles, what I know of his politics he would be to the right of the conservatives overhere , equivelent to say Mrs. Thatcher so would have a hard time getting in. I've heard him say he is a Reagan republican..

He sure seems a nice man though.....steve

Ron Paul supportted Reagan in '76 and '80 but was critical of the Regan administration. I think right/left, at least in this country is a complete game, when you look closely, they are very much the same. As Ron Paul said in this interview, most people don't understand him and it is only fair to try to understand his philosophy. It is the old way in many ways but when you weed through the facts, it resonates, at least for me and the rest of the 10-15% he talks about in this video. At his core he is a libertarian (little L) and/or a classic liberal (much different than today's definition), highly influenced by Bastiat, Von Mises, Hayek and Rothbard. At his core he is about peace and freedom and empowering the individual. I think it would be great if American's at least tried to understand him.

Here are his Freedom Principles - (from his site - http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1009&Itemid=50)
The Ron Paul FREEDOM PRINCIPLES

Rights belong to individuals, not groups.
Property should be owned by people, not government.
All voluntary associations should be permissible -- economic and social.
The government's monetary role is to maintain the integrity of the monetary unit, not participate in fraud.
Government exists to protect liberty, not to redistribute wealth or to grant special privileges.
The lives and actions of people are their own responsibility, not the government's.


Here is his reading list. I think it helps to understand the man, not sure if you could get this from another candidate. For those of us that went to school in the US, I doubt you would know most of these guys existed. I always find that hard to believe when I learn the history, one of the main reasons why I became open to the idea of an elite. You can find some of these books online for free in pdf format.
http://lewrockwell.com/paul/reading-list4-text.html

robinr1
27th September 2011, 18:24
i woulud just like to say is that ron paul is a extreme leftist...not in a negative way...hes taken several strwpolls...and he ha s a chance to win the primaries....he believes in the constsitution... now if 80% of americans voted for ron i dont think he would make president....the powers to be are scared of ron paul....and they wont let him be president ....it wouldnt surprise me that he gets wacked in some sort of way...he is a threat to the powers to be...i myself will certainly vote for him...just food for thought...love light and abundance...thirdeye...;




could u please explain why u think ron paul is an extreme leftist? also if u could name one position of his that is either extreme or leftist?

lastly ...are u from the usa? becuase i have a feeling our definitions are left and right on the political scale are very very different.

ron paul is considered by most to be the most conservative member of congress..and has a 30 year voting record to back it up.

thank you

robin

jackovesk
28th September 2011, 05:02
i woulud just like to say is that ron paul is a extreme leftist...not in a negative way...hes taken several strwpolls...and he ha s a chance to win the primaries....he believes in the constsitution... now if 80% of americans voted for ron i dont think he would make president....the powers to be are scared of ron paul....and they wont let him be president ....it wouldnt surprise me that he gets wacked in some sort of way...he is a threat to the powers to be...i myself will certainly vote for him...just food for thought...love light and abundance...thirdeye...;

could u please explain why u think ron paul is an extreme leftist? also if u could name one position of his that is either extreme or leftist?

lastly ...are u from the usa? becuase i have a feeling our definitions are left and right on the political scale are very very different.

ron paul is considered by most to be the most conservative member of congress..and has a 30 year voting record to back it up.

thank you

robin

:bump:

My sentiments 'Exactly' Robin,

It amazes me how people don't even know what a 'Leftist' is, let alone an 'Extreme Leftist'..!

...and to Label Ron Paul an 'Extreme Leftist'..! (WTF)..?

Absolutetly 'Mind-boggling'..!

jackovesk
28th September 2011, 16:30
Herman Cain Describes Ron Paul Supporters’ Concerns As “Stupid”

Suggests Paul campaign is deliberately out to “nail” him

Steve Watson
Prisonplanet.com
Sept 27, 2011

Businessman Herman Cain has made remarks somewhat unbecoming of a presidential candidate, declaring his annoyance at “stupid” questions continually put to him by Ron Paul supporters.

The former Godfather’s Pizza CEO, who is running for the GOP nomination on a broadly libertarian platform, seems to have a problem with Paulites’ concerns regarding the Federal Reserve.

http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/september2011/280911PaulCain.jpg

“I get the same stupid question at almost every one of these events,” Cain writes in a forthcoming book “This is Herman Cain,” to be released in early October.

According to the Daily Caller, which has obtained an advance copy of the book, Cain claims that Paul’s supporters are “threatened by me” and are “trying to destroy me on the fact that I was once affiliated with” the Federal Reserve.

Cain even has his own conspiracy theory that Paul’s campaign is deliberately sending people out to Cain events to attempt to discredit him:

“I know it’s a deliberate strategy.” Cain writes, “How can a person randomly show up at a hundred events and ask the same stupid question to try to nail me on the Federal Reserve?”

Is Cain serious? Clearly he has no concept of the determination and reach of Ron Paul’s grassroots support base. Paulites are focused and unwavering, just as their chosen candidate has been for thirty plus years.

Ron Paul has warned his supporters for three decades and more about the dangerous of a fraudulent fractional reserve banking system in the hands of private central bankers, and no one can legitimately argue any longer that those concerns have not been justified. Why is it so hard for Cain to accept that every Ron Paul supporter would share the same concerns?

Paul’s supporters have argued that Cain is not serious about reigning in the power of the Federal Reserve over US monetary policy, pointing to the fact that he was chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City in 1995 and 1996.


While Ron Paul has continually pushed to audit the Fed, Cain seemingly does not believe an audit is necessary:

Cain Quote:

“I have said: ‘I don’t think you’re going to find anything to audit on the Federal Reserve.’” Cain writes.

“But they (Ron Paul supporters) want you to believe that Herman Cain doesn’t want the Federal Reserve to be audited.”

“It’s really becoming annoying more than anything else.” Cain states..”

Polls have consistently revealed that at least 75% of the American people want a full audit of the Fed, and the majority were against reconfirming Bernanke.

Bloomberg noted last December:

A majority of Americans are dissatisfied with the nation’s independent central bank, saying the U.S. Federal Reserve should either be brought under tighter political control or abolished outright, a poll shows.

Americans across the political spectrum say the Fed shouldn’t retain its current structure of independence. Asked if the central bank should be more accountable to Congress, left independent or abolished entirely, 39 percent said it should be held more accountable and 16 percent that it should be abolished. Only 37 percent favor the status quo.

In light of these facts, Cain seems totally out of touch with what voters core concerns are, especially libertarian leaning republican and independent voters. To describe questions over the Federal Reserve as “stupid” and “annoying” betrays a disconnect with the American people on the whole.

Furthermore, for Cain to insinuate that Ron Paul’s campaign is deliberately seeking to sabotage Cain’s own platform smacks of desperation and paranoia to say the least.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/herman-cain-describes-ron-paul-supporters-concerns-as-stupid.html

PS -
Cain Quote:

“I have said: ‘I don’t think you’re going to find anything to audit on the Federal Reserve.’” Cain writes.

“But they (Ron Paul supporters) want you to believe that Herman Cain doesn’t want the Federal Reserve to be audited.”

“It’s really becoming annoying more than anything else.” Cain states..”

added to that he supported...


Mitt Romney in 2008
The Patriot Act
The Bailouts (TAARP)
The Federal Reserve


What more needs be said about Herman Cain's run in the 2012 Election Campaign?

But this...

Hey Pizza Guy what's the 'House Special'? - "Thin & Crispy Elite Base with 'No' Substance/Toppings'..!

"Gimme some of that other Pizza called 'Supreme W/Lot' you know the 'One' Herman..! The one with the 999 Plan Toppings or is it really the 'Upside Down/Flip Flop - NWO Spicy One' with the 666 Toppings..?"

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1147446441156&id=b167e177988d7f34b815b10ad0d9d37d&url=http%3a%2f%2f1.bp.blogspot.com%2f_-jdSLNVsZdc%2fTOAlCG8KrLI%2fAAAAAAAACu0%2flqd_R1CfK 44%2fs400%2fscaled.284184535_3647ccee16_o%252Bcopy .jpg

Either way you look at it Herman your (Presidential Pizza Sucks)..!

You belong in the Bin with rest of the NWO 'Bought & Paid For' Lackies..!

Herman you've been in Politics for 5 Minutes and You wanna Start Slurring on Ron Paul a 30 Year Political Veteran with a 'Perfect Voting Record' & His Supporters!

News Prediction Herman - "YOU LOSE"..!

Allura
28th September 2011, 16:49
That's disappointing. I think Cain is a MAJOR step up from Obama but doesn't seem as principled as Paul. Did you see the latest Harris Poll? Ron Paul beat Obama 51% to 49%! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ron-Paul-Bests-Obamain-Latest-bw-3821734650.html?x=0&.v=1

Ron Paul 2012!

jackovesk
28th September 2011, 17:23
That's disappointing. I think Cain is a MAJOR step up from Obama but doesn't seem as principled as Paul. Did you see the latest Harris Poll? Ron Paul beat Obama 51% to 49%! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ron-Paul-Bests-Obamain-Latest-bw-3821734650.html?x=0&.v=1

Ron Paul 2012!

Hi Allura,

Yeh I saw the Ron Paul Poll, very encouraging

...but you know the 'Fix is In' when you see the POLL SHOCK: OBAMA 39%, CAIN 34%


Herman Cain did well in last week’s GOP debate and won a decisive straw poll victory in Florida, but his numbers in a general election match-up against President Obama are little changed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters finds that Obama earns 39% support while Cain attracts 34%. In that match-up, 14%prefer some other candidate, and 14% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/questions/september_2011/questions_cain_vs_obama_september_26_27_2011).)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/2012_presidential_matchups

Past experience 'Proves' when the MSM & Elite run out of Legitimate Candidates they start getting a little 'Desperate' spouting Herman Cain (Tea Party Favorite) and pushing 'Dodgy Polls' into the public domain..!

(To see survey question wording, click here (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/questions/september_2011/questions_cain_vs_obama_september_26_27_2011).)


Questions - Cain vs. Obama - September 26-27, 2011

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
Conducted September 26-27, 2011
By Rasmussen Reports


Please note that we split the survey to rotate the order of the candidate names, so while half will hear the Republican candidate first, the other half hears the Democrat mentioned first.

1* Okay, what if the Republicans nominate Herman Cain? If the 2012 Presidential Election were held today would you vote for Republican Herman Cain or Democrat Barack Obama?

Cain
Obama
Some other candidate
Not sure

NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence

PS - Ya just 'Can't Make This Stuff Up'..!

jackovesk
28th September 2011, 17:35
Neocons Attack Ron Paul for Being ‘Anti-Semitic’

AFP VIDEO

http://americanfreepress.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/RonPaulNew.jpg

AFP correspondent Michael Collins Piper dissects the neoconservative wing of the Republican Party’s shameless attack on presidential candidate Ron Paul, accusing him of being a closet anti-Semite, whatever that means.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XMZ_oLP2I0&feature=player_embedded


The American Spectator: Ron Paul 'Hit Piece'..!

Looming over the interesting and appealing ideas of the Paul campaign is a veritable political tornado of allegations involving anti-Semitism, racism, pacifism, far left-wingism and, at the edges, a tiny flicker of intimidation.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/08/23/ron-paul-and-the-neoliberal-re

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=641

PS - You know Ron Paul has really got the TPTW Worried, when they bring out the 'Trusty-Old Anti-Semitic' slurs..!

Maia Gabrial
29th September 2011, 15:52
Let's hope that this "accusation" doesn't fly, except into the toilet. It's just bullsh** anyway....
Thanks for this!

Calz
29th September 2011, 15:55
Yes the "trump card" of desperation.

Bryn ap Gwilym
29th September 2011, 16:06
It would be nice to know on how many who play the Anti-Semitic card actually know its true meaning & if they knew that it is they who are the ones who are Anti-Semitic?

the trojan
29th September 2011, 16:32
its just an article in a certain publication that will be read by a certain reader...nothing to worry about.

Maia Gabrial
1st October 2011, 14:28
Wait until they try to tell you who you can or can't like....

Seikou-Kishi
1st October 2011, 15:02
I had an Aunty Semite once. It wasn't her fault her parents gave her a weird name.

Lord Sidious
1st October 2011, 16:47
I had an Aunty Semite once. It wasn't her fault her parents gave her a weird name.

Speaking of aunties with funny names, here is Aunty Jack.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnEOr1MgwTM

GCS1103
1st October 2011, 19:05
I had an Aunty Semite once. It wasn't her fault her parents gave her a weird name.

You're hysterical....:laugh:

DNA
2nd October 2011, 04:13
I'm afrad of the Neo-Cons.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QGwB_G0Vyz0

modwiz
2nd October 2011, 04:40
The brilliant Israeli saxophonist and writer, now a British citizen, Gilad Aztmon has said. "Anti-Semite used to be a word that you called someone who hates Jews. Now it a it's a word you call someone who Jews hate".

Ouch! Glad he said it.

Seikou-Kishi
2nd October 2011, 13:08
The brilliant Israeli saxophonist and writer, now a British citizen, Gilad Aztmon has said. "Anti-Semite used to be a word that you called someone who hates Jews. Now it a it's a word you call someone who Jews hate".

Ouch! Glad he said it.

I'm glad he has a bit of sense, though clearly not enough to avoid jazz ;-)

jackovesk
6th October 2011, 01:40
Ron Paul Leads Hearing On First Ever Audit Of Fed


Ron Paul: “Would it be much of a problem if we were doing this every year?”

October 5, 2011

Texas Congressman and 2012 presidential candidate Ron Paul held hearings Tuesday into a recent and rare one off audit of the Federal Reserve’s crisis-response emergency lending programs of 2008.

In his role as chairman of the Domestic Monetary Policy subcommittee, Paul relished the glimmer of transparency that was afforded as part of the Dodd-Frank Act, signed into law last year.

http://photos.upi.com/topics-Ron-Paul/b03b5e693f5260cca46ffff380cc2a57/Ron-Paul_1.jpg

“More people now are starting to realize that the Fed isn’t independent of political independence because indirectly and some times more directly it is involved in political decisions or at least private decisions to serve some political interest.” Paul told those gathered at the hearing.

Along with Paul, Republicans in attendance argued that the audit should pave the way for regular reviews of the Fed’s policies, as well as more complete disclosure of exactly who has received upwards of $27 trillion in bail out funds since 2008.

“Would it be much of a problem if we were doing this every year?” Paul asked.

Robert Auerbach, Professor of Public Affairs at the University of Texas, backed Paul up by putting the case that regular and ongoing audits would not affect the Fed’s independence in any major way.

“The Fed’s mythical flag of independence from politics, a favorite Fed mantra to avoid individual responsibility, is merely a shield intended to protect the institution from being forced to act in a more transparent fashion,” Auerbach testified.

Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer, Republican of Missouri, expressed concern that although the GAO’s audit authority is now expired, some banks and firms that “borrowed” from the Fed, and by extension the American taxpaying public, as part of the Bear Sterns and AIG relief packages, have yet to pay back the funds.

Luetkemeyer also noted that the one time GAO audit was extremely limited in its scope.

Nevertheless, the GAO’s report found several instances of conflicts of interest and questionable practices involving Fed officials.

It was also revealed that the Fed made $16.1 trillion in secret loans to Wall Street firms at the height of the crisis.

The full hearing, beginning with Ron Paul’s opening statement, can be viewed below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUVWJGBZWQA&feature=player_embedded

Congressman Ron Paul also appeared on Freedom Watch yesterday to discuss the economic situation, urging that politicians in Washington are “not offering a prescription”.


“We have too much spending and too much debt, so they’re trying to solve the problem with more debt. There’s not a chance that we can get out of the recession this way.” Paul told host Judge Andrew Napolitano.
“The people here don’t want to change because they have been conditioned by Keynesian economics. Where I’m encouraged is that people outside this place are getting the message. The answers are well known but how do you translate this new message that we have of free markets and the constitution, and get the people that are managing the affairs now out of office?” the Congressman stated.

Paul added that as president he would implement some immediate measures that would cut the deficit and reduce spending in a meaningful way.

“Immediately you could bring all our troops home and have them spend money here at home, that would give us some reprieve. We could change our foreign policy and indicate to the world that we are going to get our budget under control.” Paul said.

“We could remove taxation on all the money that is held overseas by our corporations and not double tax them. We could remove the interest paid by the Federal Reserve to the banks. The banks won’t invest their money because it’s too risky, but the Federal Reserve gives them their money, essentially, for free, and then they invest it back into Treasury bills, so they help monetize the debt too.”

“Those are a few things, but sending a signal will be most important, ‘we’re going to quit this spending’. Right now I’m working on a plan where in one year I want to cut a trillion dollars.” Paul revealed.

“The appetite for big government is the problem. The taxes and the Federal Reserve inflating, that is the symptom, and the budget problem is a symptom of the appetite for big government.” Paul continued.

“Too often the leadership is only in the business of preserving power… It’s a shame that despite all this arguing and bickering going on between the two parties, there is no difference. Regardless of which party it is they still don’t change the definition of entitlements, they don’t change the foreign policy and they don’t go after the Fed.”

The Congressman also reiterated comments he made earlier in the week regarding the unconstitutional killing in Yemen of the American born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki.

Watch the interview:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jxl5fyv44&feature=player_embedded

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-leads-hearing-on-first-ever-audit-of-fed.html

PS - One thing I like most about Ron Paul is his simple message of 'COMMONSENSE'..!

Its 'NOT' Rocket Science folks...


“We have too much spending and too much debt, so they’re trying to solve the problem with more debt. There’s not a chance that we can get out of the recession this way.” Paul told host Judge Andrew Napolitano.

daledo
6th October 2011, 08:40
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gldETRlhiXk

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I love to see Ben flustered. Ron Paul has a long history with Ben.

S1Vki1AtWeM
No gold left in Fort Knox- one of the many reasons we need to audit the fed.

Calz
8th October 2011, 19:16
This could go in several forums (lighter side included) but will settle for here.

For those who have a distaste for "dah spin zone" or MSM in general this is for you ...


hxiPHP3-VOE

7UNC1vtP0a0

Maia Gabrial
8th October 2011, 22:43
O'Reilly likes to call some people "pinheads" and others "patriots". So, I think O'Reilly can be called a "knucklehead". He never lets anyone ever finish what they're saying. His interviews are obnoxious. He's one of the reasons why I stopped listening to Fux News....
Ron Paul did a great job in spite of this knucklehead's rudeness....

Calz
8th October 2011, 22:49
I think O'Reilly can be called a "knucklehead".

Not the word I would use :whistle:

Referee
9th October 2011, 06:36
Anonymous message to Ron Paul

O2N3HMhPvUg

Lisab
9th October 2011, 07:59
Ooooh scary - but I like it!

aranuk
9th October 2011, 19:51
O'Reilly sounds like a fascist warmonger to me.

Stan

christian
9th October 2011, 20:16
These are textbook cases of appealing to people's reptilian-brain knee-jerk reflexes, it's pathetic. :loco:

Quote Billo: "We don't need a history lesson." :baby:

Fred Steeves
9th October 2011, 20:48
I was one of the people snickering right along with Bill O. at Ron Paul then, my how times have changed. Now I'm proud to BE snickered at by bought and paid for schills like him. Of course now it's obvious why he doesn't want to delve into history, or give people like Ron paul a chance to fully express themselves. His snickers and phony condescension would turn to purple face embarressment within 5 minutes.

Cheers,
Fred

truthseekerdan
10th October 2011, 03:12
Ron Paul's Message to Occupy Wall Street. LETS END THE FED!

992TkYucviw

JoshuaM
10th October 2011, 03:41
Please be careful. I here Ron Paul this and Ron Paul that. Almost everybody loved Obama right before his election. I think of it this way, TPTB/W aren't stupid, they have a lot of blocked love but they're not stupid and they plan ahead. I mean AHEAD. We can't look for others to fix our problems. I'll tell you a short story. When I was very young, my mother use to spoil me by always wiping my butt after #2. It got to a point when she wouldn't even acknowledge me when I asked for her assistance. I had to learn how to wipe my own butt and when I did, I was so happy that I was a little bit more self-sufficient. At a young age it was freedom that I couldn't see until I achieved it. What I'm trying to say is, we, each and everyone of us, need to learn how to clean up our own crap. Helping each other is beautiful and great but we cannot expect others to DO it for us.

Arc
10th October 2011, 04:32
Ron Paul worship is nothing new either.

You know, as nice as he sounds, I'm not buying the savior part.

It's never been about being a savior. If you believe that, then please go review information and re-assess.

Look, folks here on this forum, talk about a lot of good ideas. Then, even more inspiring folks here talk about what they will do, more importantly, to Act, to improve this world. Then other inspired folks talk about how people should not just talk, but take action for change, as some of those motivated folks do.

A lot of folks find one good idea or another. Some want to take down the system - some want to reinvent the system - some want to build a new system - some want to re-engineer the components of the old system and add new modularity - some want to build a new system con-currently while the old system declines - and so on.

Then, here comes one of the groups who have a lot of good ideas from the original rebellion (US Revolution/Constitution) against a Tyranny. Reborn and refreshed ideas that were ignored, abused, and purposefully down played by the usual control freak elites for 200 years. And, with the tension of Change and Revolution building in a group of new free thinkers, they aggregate their ideas into different groups and ideologies - which stand apart from, and want to overhaul the current state of the system.

One group wants to return to the original contract document that was drafted by the same folks who kicked the asses of the Tyrants out a few hundred years back. Let's say you found a "living" modern activist, with a large amount of experience - a track record of anti-establishment public action and integrity. And, that activist has the experience to engage the existing system, even though they want to radically change it for the better to return to the original concept. And, so there is Ron Paul.

And, folks here who claim they want more people to take action for change - well they refuse to give anyone else after Obama - a chance (who ran on change - and yes we all mostly fell for it!). Well, if a grassroots group, energized by those ideas, then began to grow at a rapid and exponential rate to support such an activist representative for freedom, without corporate money, who knows how to beat the system, what could happen?!?

Well - nothing, apparently. Because, people here still want to hold onto Left/Right paradigms (I'm a Liberal, yer a Conservative - I like Capitlaism, you like Communism.. Booo.. Hisssss - or something - but these are old programs!). OR, they were burned in the past by believing in the reform Candidate, like Obama, who later dashed their hopes! People, who like Ron Paul don't care that he is Republican - it is irrelevant and meaningless!!!

So, the message is for some - throw out the baby with the bath water. Certain people do not believe in Ron Paul - or that some mild mannered physician from no where special, would dare or even succeed at dismantling such powerful structures as the Federal Reserve, right? Yet look at the progress of late to bring discussion and dissent. Do you think the Anonymous hacker group or the Zeitgeist movement created the idea to END the FED??? - NO! They learned about and adopted the idea from Ron Paul. So, I ask you what change he has already stimulated from the shadows.

At any rate, many of the same folks here who want to change the world, and want to tell us all how to "bring light", and "do good", "take action", and "Be the Change". Well, if someone championing the Change actually appears - - -

...they frantically cry... "Nope, nope, can't be real. He will never succeed. He can't change anything. He is Left or Right. Nothing will improve anyway if he is elected, because .. blah, blah, [filling my own intellect with nihilism] blah, blah - Blah-ha!. He simply can't change anything! I don't believe because my own ego and facts tell me not to believe in changing anything, even if I tell everyone else to be the change... (and SO on)"

IF a grass roots movement DOES arise to try and improve the system by using what is available within legal means, THEN the same people who try to tell you to take action and improve things... well, a lot of them will also discourage and actually attack, criticize, denigrate, and disregard anything positive which actually does try make a difference.

Yup, Ron Paul might not save us all - very likely he will NOT - he might not even win the election. But, to the detractors here - my gosh, can you not even see how his influence has helped shape a key part of the global Truth/Revolution movement???

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 04:48
OK, let's say Ron Paul is perfect, (he's actually a Buddha!), and he gets selected er, I mean "elected", er, I mean elected.

Now, let's remember to recognize that there are 100 Senators and 435 Representatives in both houses of Congress, and that NONE of them will go against their corporate masters. None of them will "End the Fed!" or "Bring the troops home!" or anything else that Ron is famous for saying.

Now where are we?

Seriously, people need to recognize that as long as the world of the duopoly of the (faux) 2-party system exists, no one that stands outside the corporate/banker/militarist ruling Elite is going to be allowed to make a dent. If Ron Paul gets elected, it will be a strategic move as a pressure relief valve - with Paul continuing to say things we want to hear, but not... quite... able... to... make... them... happen. Always just out of reach. Four years of quelling the fire of the masses because our hero is trying. Because, presidents DO NOT make laws; Congress does.

Remember to take the Red Pill every day. It seems to be wearing off, and awake and aware people are cheering for the Elite to retain control of their political theater pseudo-system, their gameboard, their paradigm. If one rogue politician could actually upset the elite, and no longer be a useful tool for them, they would perform a public craniotomy on him and declare a lone assassin did it who is Russian, no wait make that Cuban!, no let's go with Muslim this time!, no wait make that right wing Christian!, no, militia/survivalist! or maybe an Iranian president ordered it.

Oh, and besides, Ron Paul ain't no Buddha.

Dennis
p.s. Tell me again, why on Avalon, if we are discussing politics, aren't we discussing alternatives to the system the Elites set up for themselves?

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 05:05
... can you ... see how his influence has helped shape a key part of the global Truth/Revolution movement???

Yes. Credit where credit is due. He wasn't the only one, but he may have been saying "end the Fed" longer than most. But, let's not go overboard and argue that we should collectively spend our energy supporting ANY candidate within the Elite's rigid structure. This is the only chance I have seen in my lifetime for major changes to occur that would take the Elites out of control of the US political process entirely, and I for one do not want to see it squandered by inadvertently supporting the Elite's paradigm in what is a classic carrot on a stick.

Am I making sense? Why not take the groundswell, the unprecedented and historic groundswell and make the most of it, changing not just one of the actors, but changing the theater into an auditorium and changing the actors into real Senators, real Representatives, a real judiciary, and a real executive officer?

Dennis

Arc
10th October 2011, 05:40
OK, let's say Ron Paul is perfect, (he's actually a Buddha!), and he gets selected er, I mean "elected", er, I mean elected.

Now, let's remember to recognize that there are 100 Senators and 435 Representatives in both houses of Congress, and that NONE of them will go against their corporate masters. None of them will "End the Fed!" or "Bring the troops home!" or anything else that Ron is famous for saying.

Now where are we?

Seriously, people need to recognize that as long as the world of the duopoly of the (faux) 2-party system exists, no one that stands outside the corporate/banker/militarist ruling Elite is going to be allowed to make a dent. If Ron Paul gets elected, it will be a strategic move as a pressure relief valve - with Paul continuing to say things we want to hear, but not... quite... able... to... make... them... happen. Always just out of reach. Four years of quelling the fire of the masses because our hero is trying. Because, presidents DO NOT make laws; Congress does.

Remember to take the Red Pill every day. It seems to be wearing off, and awake and aware people are cheering for the Elite to retain control of their political theater pseudo-system, their gameboard, their paradigm. If one rogue politician could actually upset the elite, and no longer be a useful tool for them, they would perform a public craniotomy on him and declare a lone assassin did it who is Russian, no wait make that Cuban!, no let's go with Muslim this time!, no wait make that right wing Christian!, no, militia/survivalist! or maybe an Iranian president ordered it.

Oh, and besides, Ron Paul ain't no Buddha.

Dennis
p.s. Tell me again, why on Avalon, if we are discussing politics, aren't we discussing alternatives to the system the Elites set up for themselves?

Hi Dennis,

Respectfully, I understand and appreciate your view point. In some ways though, you sound like you have given up hope for any change with this quote. Or, maybe you just want a higher degree of change than I thought was possible as a starting point. I mostly agree, or have felt that way, but what alternative do you suggest, really?? My point was that it is not so realistic to erase the whole system and rebuild, on a white board from scratch. We may have to, more realistically, transition from a crummy system into an improved version, and finally into a more enhanced one, but over time.

Let me draw a parallel. Let's say there was some irrelevant internet forum out there who liked discussing truth, change, and ways to improve the world. Well, they could not possibly cause any awakening, right? Let's say a man like Bill Ryan, went about with more skill and courage than most of us to stimulate a movement. And, let's say he created Avalon, and created lots of wonderful material to empower and move others to action, folks like Dennis and myself. We are no-bodies, right? and we don't have any votes, or enough money as a banking corporation. Do we have all the answers?? Do we have all the numbers to make change??? Also, we don't have the voice of a media company with massive resource and outlets, right?? Does that mean we are not effective, productive, and/or meaningful in shifting the paradigm?? I don't think so. I think Avalon is a revolutionary forum that is helping to expand the awareness of all members, and regardless of who the symbolic voice is, we DO have real power for change.

I would argue changing certain parameters in the existing Govt structure of the US to restore it to a Constitutional body, subservient to the States, in turn subservient to Sovereign People, and which has minimal Federal powers, could indeed be an effective step to improvement - all the change will likely not happen overnight. It might take some leadership - not from Wallstreet or overseas corruption, such as now - but, with oversight from serious, awakened, and engaged citizens.

Also, I don't believe anyone on this forum, or likely on this planet, at this time, is a Buddha. But, I would not be voting for a Buddha for US President (why would such a being want a primitive job like that?). I would be voting for one last hope at changing the current system short or confrontational revolution. Maybe Ron Paul could take more direct action against the Fed as President. Maybe he could dismantle some of the corrupt Executive orders. Maybe he could clean up the executive regulatory agencies for the financial system or the environment/energy.

All that said, my Friend. I am all for listening to alternatives to the current system. Maybe it can happen more directly than with revolutionizing our existing system. I will look to you for better ideas if you have them, so please keep me informed.

sidh25
10th October 2011, 05:43
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32191-Ascension-and-US-Leadership&p=328166&viewfull=1#post328166

this link is from channeled information but if you take the time to read it with a pinch of salt it might answer some of the questions u guys might have about why obama couldn't do what he wanted to do. DEATH THREATS!! to his loved ones i'll say. Also like dennis is saying president doesn't make the laws congress does.

Arc
10th October 2011, 05:49
... can you ... see how his influence has helped shape a key part of the global Truth/Revolution movement???

Yes. Credit where credit is due. He wasn't the only one, but he may have been saying "end the Fed" longer than most. But, let's not go overboard and argue that we should collectively spend our energy supporting ANY candidate within the Elite's rigid structure. This is the only chance I have seen in my lifetime for major changes to occur that would take the Elites out of control of the US political process entirely, and I for one do not want to see it squandered by inadvertently supporting the Elite's paradigm in what is a classic carrot on a stick.

Am I making sense? Why not take the groundswell, the unprecedented and historic groundswell and make the most of it, changing not just one of the actors, but changing the theater into an auditorium and changing the actors into real Senators, real Representatives, a real judiciary, and a real executive officer?

Dennis

I totally agree! Tell me more.

risveglio
10th October 2011, 13:15
There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama. Ron Paul has had the same consistent message for 30+ years. Obama has been flip flopping and saying whatever he thinks people want to hear since he ran for state senate.

Now I am not one to believe that all the congressmen are under some elite control so I am a bit more optimistic about a Paul presidency. Its silly and wrong to say they are all controlled, just take a quick look at Justin Amash and tell me that guy is controlled, no way.

But, since we are pretending that all politicians are evil, what could Ron Paul do if they are. Well, he has the power to bring home the troops and close the bases around the world. He could also use the executive order to remove all the other poorly made executive orders by previous presidents. And wouldn't you rather have a guy not getting good things done than what we have now, a president successfully bringing on more war, assassinating US citizens, and keeping the country in a deep recession with flawed economic policies?

The Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change. It promotes people taking care of themselves like Johua said above. It factors in human action, the fact that some people will strive to succeed and others will do only what they can to get by but eliminates all these social programs that look good on the surface but in the end are just the use of force against one group of people to help another.

It makes more sense to use your energy to support Ron Paul and get someone with principles that can not be bought as POTUS instead of camping on the streets of Wall Street for a movement that will probably lead us towards socialism.

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 16:36
There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama. ...

Now I am not one to believe that all the congressmen are under some elite control ...
... all politicians are evil, ...wouldn't you rather have a guy ...

The Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change. It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another.

... instead of camping on the streets of Wall Street for a movement that will probably lead us towards socialism.
risveglio, I fear there is a pretty wide divide between us ideologically, but please allow me to try to bridge the gap a bit.

"There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama"
I did not say Obama is better than Ron Paul. Nor do I believe it. That's not the point I was making.

"under elite control" is not a scenario out of a Hollywood sci-fi movie. Congressmen are not brainwashed or connected to some brain altering remote control device. It is much simpler that that: they were financially sponsored into their position of power. They "dance with who brung them." They ARE controlled: they are controlled by their greed and most significantly they are controlled by their desire for power - and the desire to continue on in their position of power. Many Congresspersons probably believe in the system as it exists and do not even see their sponsors as evil. They support them, and they are in turn supported. That is "control." That means they do not listen to citizens, they listen to their sponsors (via the sponsors' lobbyists.)

I believe you do not understand the workings of the three branches of government when you say "Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change." The power of the presidency is an illusion. Legislative power is in Congress, not the White House.


" It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another."
I have to say, this mindset is deeply disturbing to me. There is the implied assumption that people are not taking care of themselves, i.e., not working hard enough, and that only the upper middle class and up (socioeconomically) have worked hard. The pyramidal structure of capitalism guarantees with 100% certainty that the majority of citizens will fall to a lower socioeconomic status regardless of how hard every single person works. If you do not understand this, you do not understand capitalism. If you do understand this, and are OK with it, I'll remind you that even if you are "hardworking middle class", you are exactly one major financial tragedy away from poverty yourself. If it happens to you, will you feel you deserved it?

And, I'd ask you to meditate a bit on the second part of that sentence ("force against one group of people to help another.") and see if that is what you really meant to say. Only a sociopath would need to be forced to help others who are sick, homeless, cold, hungry, afraid, lost. Unfortunately, we have not only found that about 1% of the population are sociopaths, but we find that the further up the socioeconomic scale you go, the more likely someone will be a sociopath. So yes, sadly, the richer someone is, the more likely they will need to be forced to help others (and the more likely they became rich by exploiting others.)


"lead us towards socialism"
Socialism:
Your signature line is "free energy now." That's socialism. Socialism is good. Jesus handing out lox and bagels instead of selling them - that's socialism. Socialism is cooperation instead of competition. Socialism is sharing resources, rather than allowing someone to own and horde resources and to eek them out - which is the "scarcity" paradigm, the opposite of the "abundance" paradigm (that "free energy" exemplifies.)

What is the basis of your fear of socialism? I know we could debate this for weeks, but the totalitarian state of USSR, for example, was not socialism and was not Marxism. Marxism never actually happened. It's like that goofy old line, "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum..." The concept of Marxism was instrumental in the Bolshevik revolution, but before anyone could actually establish Marxist socialism, the "Russian Statists" co-opted that movement, created a totalitarian State, and just for a twist of irony (and control of the masses), called it "Socialism." Real socialism is the pooling of resources, and the fair allocation of those resources. Like the fact that you do not have to personally pay for a fire department for your own house. Public schools, libraries, roads, bridges, sewers, water treatment plants, the weather service... those are all socialist. You and I have been lied to for so long that we have a nearly involuntary negative reaction to the word "socialism", kind of a Clockwork Orange aversion conditioning.

The opposite of socialism is pure capitalism: everything is owned by someone; nothing is shared. Pure capitalism in the hands of sociopaths is a pyramid scheme based on greed where very few at the top of the pyramid do extremely well, and by the pyramidal structure, a thousand or maybe ten thousand people at the bottom of the pyramid do very poorly. This is not due to their laziness; it is the design of a pyramid. In a capitalist system, if everyone worked equally hard, some would do very well (the clever and the well-connected) and most would do very poorly. There is nothing spiritual about capitalism. It is carnal, possessive, lustful, and greed-driven.You and I know in our hearts that sharing is more spiritual than owning, regardless how cleverly the capitalists phrase the defense of capitalism.

Capitalism is competition, the opposite of cooperation. There is nothing spiritually evolved or compassionate about capitalism. Hunger and poverty and illness among those impoverished will never be dealt with by capitalism.

Could socialism and capitalism exist simultaneously? Yes, that is how the US is set up right now. Only, the capitalists are getting greedier, and trying to shove out all socialism.

A business where five plumbers get together, pool their resources with equal input, and use that to buy a few trucks, some expensive pipe bending and threading equipment, advertising, receptionist, etc. - and who all own an equal share of the business - would be an example of a cooperative, which is socialist. They would be a socialist enterprise operating within the capitalist system (but hopefully, they would not be a part of the evil side of capitalism.)

Capitalism is not a monetary system. A monetary system of some sort is necessary, well, it is convenient so that you do not have to pay for your car repair in 31 jars of organic jam and 9 dozen organic eggs. The particular monetary system used by the current ruling bankers (the tip top of the power pyramid) - money created by debt using fractional reserve - is a scam benefiting only the bankers, so regardless what else we do with capitalism and socialism, we need to replace our "debt money" monetary system with a non-debt monetary system.

Ron Paul is anti-socialism and pro-capitalism. That's the final and unassailable truth. He is not spiritually evolved (or shows no outward sign of it.) He wants wars to stop because wars are expensive, fiscally irresponsible. He wants to end the Fed because he knows the bankers get the interest money, and that costs the US government money - again, not fiscally wise. So, Ron Paul is for some of the same things that a spiritually evolving person stands for, but it is not for enlightened reasons. With not just a Ron Paul president (the significance of a president is WAY overrated in terms of change in governance) but add several hundred individuals to Congress that think just like Ron Paul. What would the result be? The United States government, as a business venture, would be financially stronger. There would be less war. So yes, some good would come of it (but it would require hundreds of Congresspersons that think like Ron Paul. Don't lose sight of that fact.) What would NOT happen? Universal health care is one huge thing that would not happen - it is too expensive, and it is socialist. Poverty would not end, because ending poverty is a socialist concept, and it costs money. Major agricultural reform would not happen (Monsanto and the GMO plague would continue its march towards total dominance of food) - because they provide jobs and contribute the GNP, which a country run as a business would support. Big Pharma, Big Energy, Big Insurance would all survive pretty much intact, because they are the current employers and contributors to GNP. A drastic switch to green energy (not even including free energy) would not happen, because the infrastructure would cost a lot of money up front, would not be able to be borne by energy business, and would need to be subsidized by government. Education would be crippled by lack of funding or privatized, and public services like libraries would disappear.

One of the worst things about supporting Ron Paul for president has nothing to do with Ron Paul as an individual. Supporting ANY candidate within the election system they built for themselves is a vote supporting that system. It is that system that critically needs to change, not one or more of the personnel within that system.

We can do a lot, lot better than this. We have worked hard on our spiritual growth to get to a point where we blossom as individuals, communities, regions, countries, and as humanity. What a sad thing it would be to settle for "better than Obama" when we should be emerging into an immensely better paradigm of cooperation and sharing and wise stewardship. I can see a future, a not too distant future, where capitalism is allowed to remain a part of society, but only for those parts of society that have nothing to do with our needs. Basically, luxury items and luxury services being handled by capitalists - but even then I would demand restrictions on their capitalistic enterprises so that they were not free to exploit workers and rape the environment.

This is TOO LONG! I apologize. I could probably write a short story about the word "succinct"; I'm hopelessly verbose.

Dennis

Calz
10th October 2011, 16:49
Don't apologize Dennis. That was very good.

I try to avoid politics since it is so divisive ... but you have been bringing out some good material here, not only in this post but some of the previous ones as well.

I would take more of a "middle ground" on "under elite control". Most are "selected" based on various means of "controlability". Some that "slip through the crack" and get elected anyway can be subverted by a myriad of means. Some do not (perhaps Ron Paul and Dennis K are two examples of such).

Even there, consider Dennis K. who made a valiant attempt at bringing legislation against chemtrails and electronic means of mind control. He was a hold out vote on a critical issue and the "Big O" took him up on Airforce One and changed his vote.

What???

Bottom line is the system needs to change (as has been brought forth in this thread). Combine that with Ron Paul and perhaps we have something special but the system is the key.

IMHO

risveglio
10th October 2011, 17:07
There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama. ...

Now I am not one to believe that all the congressmen are under some elite control ...
... all politicians are evil, ...wouldn't you rather have a guy ...

The Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change. It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another.

... instead of camping on the streets of Wall Street for a movement that will probably lead us towards socialism.
risveglio, I fear there is a pretty wide divide between us ideologically, but please allow me to try to bridge the gap a bit.

"There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama"
I did not say Obama is better than Ron Paul. Nor do I believe it. That's not the point I was making.

"under elite control" is not a scenario out of a Hollywood sci-fi movie. Congressmen are not brainwashed or connected to some brain altering remote control device. It is much simpler that that: they were financially sponsored into their position of power. They "dance with who brung them." They ARE controlled: they are controlled by their greed and most significantly they are controlled by their desire for power - and the desire to continue on in their position of power. Many Congresspersons probably believe in the system as it exists and do not even see their sponsors as evil. They support them, and they are in turn supported. That is "control." That means they do not listen to citizens, they listen to their sponsors (via the sponsors' lobbyists.)

I believe you do not understand the workings of the three branches of government when you say "Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change." The power of the presidency is an illusion. Legislative power is in Congress, not the White House.


" It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another."
I have to say, this mindset is deeply disturbing to me. There is the implied assumption that people are not taking care of themselves, i.e., not working hard enough, and that only the upper middle class and up (socioeconomically) have worked hard. The pyramidal structure of capitalism guarantees with 100% certainty that the majority of citizens will fall to a lower socioeconomic status regardless of how hard every single person works. If you do not understand this, you do not understand capitalism. If you do understand this, and are OK with it, I'll remind you that even if you are "hardworking middle class", you are exactly one major financial tragedy away from poverty yourself. If it happens to you, will you feel you deserved it?

And, I'd ask you to meditate a bit on the second part of that sentence ("force against one group of people to help another.") and see if that is what you really meant to say. Only a sociopath would need to be forced to help others who are sick, homeless, cold, hungry, afraid, lost. Unfortunately, we have not only found that about 1% of the population are sociopaths, but we find that the further up the socioeconomic scale you go, the more likely someone will be a sociopath. So yes, sadly, the richer someone is, the more likely they will need to be forced to help others (and the more likely they became rich by exploiting others.)


"lead us towards socialism"
Socialism:
Your signature line is "free energy now." That's socialism. Socialism is good. Jesus handing out lox and bagels instead of selling them - that's socialism. Socialism is cooperation instead of competition. Socialism is sharing resources, rather than allowing someone to own and horde resources and to eek them out - which is the "scarcity" paradigm, the opposite of the "abundance" paradigm (that "free energy" exemplifies.)

What is the basis of your fear of socialism? I know we could debate this for weeks, but the totalitarian state of USSR, for example, was not socialism and was not Marxism. Marxism never actually happened. It's like that goofy old line, "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum..." The concept of Marxism was instrumental in the Bolshevik revolution, but before anyone could actually establish Marxist socialism, the "Russian Statists" co-opted that movement, created a totalitarian State, and just for a twist of irony (and control of the masses), called it "Socialism." Real socialism is the pooling of resources, and the fair allocation of those resources. Like the fact that you do not have to personally pay for a fire department for your own house. Public schools, libraries, roads, bridges, sewers, water treatment plants, the weather service... those are all socialist. You and I have been lied to for so long that we have a nearly involuntary negative reaction to the word "socialism", kind of a Clockwork Orange aversion conditioning.

The opposite of socialism is pure capitalism: everything is owned by someone; nothing is shared. Pure capitalism in the hands of sociopaths is a pyramid scheme based on greed where very few at the top of the pyramid do extremely well, and by the pyramidal structure, a thousand or maybe ten thousand people at the bottom of the pyramid do very poorly. This is not due to their laziness; it is the design of a pyramid. In a capitalist system, if everyone worked equally hard, some would do very well (the clever and the well-connected) and most would do very poorly. There is nothing spiritual about capitalism. It is carnal, possessive, lustful, and greed-driven.You and I know in our hearts that sharing is more spiritual than owning, regardless how cleverly the capitalists phrase the defense of capitalism.

Capitalism is competition, the opposite of cooperation. There is nothing spiritually evolved or compassionate about capitalism. Hunger and poverty and illness among those impoverished will never be dealt with by capitalism.

Could socialism and capitalism exist simultaneously? Yes, that is how the US is set up right now. Only, the capitalists are getting greedier, and trying to shove out all socialism.

A business where five plumbers get together, pool their resources with equal input, and use that to buy a few trucks, some expensive pipe bending and threading equipment, advertising, receptionist, etc. - and who all own an equal share of the business - would be an example of a cooperative, which is socialist. They would be a socialist enterprise operating within the capitalist system (but hopefully, they would not be a part of the evil side of capitalism.)

Capitalism is not a monetary system. A monetary system of some sort is necessary, well, it is convenient so that you do not have to pay for your car repair in 31 jars of organic jam and 9 dozen organic eggs. The particular monetary system used by the current ruling bankers (the tip top of the power pyramid) - money created by debt using fractional reserve - is a scam benefiting only the bankers, so regardless what else we do with capitalism and socialism, we need to replace our "debt money" monetary system with a non-debt monetary system.

Ron Paul is anti-socialism and pro-capitalism. That's the final and unassailable truth. He is not spiritually evolved (or shows no outward sign of it.) He wants wars to stop because wars are expensive, fiscally irresponsible. He wants to end the Fed because he knows the bankers get the interest money, and that costs the US government money - again, not fiscally wise. So, Ron Paul is for some of the same things that a spiritually evolving person stands for, but it is not for enlightened reasons. With not just a Ron Paul president (the significance of a president is WAY overrated in terms of change in governance) but add several hundred individuals to Congress that think just like Ron Paul. What would the result be? The United States government, as a business venture, would be financially stronger. There would be less war. So yes, some good would come of it (but it would require hundreds of Congresspersons that think like Ron Paul. Don't lose sight of that fact.) What would NOT happen? Universal health care is one huge thing that would not happen - it is too expensive, and it is socialist. Poverty would not end, because ending poverty is a socialist concept, and it costs money. Major agricultural reform would not happen (Monsanto and the GMO plague would continue its march towards total dominance of food) - because they provide jobs and contribute the GNP, which a country run as a business would support. Big Pharma, Big Energy, Big Insurance would all survive pretty much intact, because they are the current employers and contributors to GNP. A drastic switch to green energy (not even including free energy) would not happen, because the infrastructure would cost a lot of money up front, would not be able to be borne by energy business, and would need to be subsidized by government. Education would be crippled by lack of funding or privatized, and public services like libraries would disappear.

One of the worst things about supporting Ron Paul for president has nothing to do with Ron Paul as an individual. Supporting ANY candidate within the election system they built for themselves is a vote supporting that system. It is that system that critically needs to change, not one or more of the personnel within that system.

We can do a lot, lot better than this. We have worked hard on our spiritual growth to get to a point where we blossom as individuals, communities, regions, countries, and as humanity. What a sad thing it would be to settle for "better than Obama" when we should be emerging into an immensely better paradigm of cooperation and sharing and wise stewardship. I can see a future, a not too distant future, where capitalism is allowed to remain a part of society, but only for those parts of society that have nothing to do with our needs. Basically, luxury items and luxury services being handled by capitalists - but even then I would demand restrictions on their capitalistic enterprises so that they were not free to exploit workers and rape the environment.

This is TOO LONG! I apologize. I could probably write a short story about the word "succinct"; I'm hopelessly verbose.

Dennis

Well, for one we are miles apart. But I have a completely different view of both Capitalism and Socialism than you do. I also do not believe that all congressmen are under the elite's influence anymore than I think you are under the elite's influence pushing ideas that to me are far more dangerous.

Free energy, if it exists, would not be socialism. Forcing the energy providers to give it away for free, would be socialism. I do not believe in the later.

I also would not consider Jesus giving away food as socialism, I would consider that to be charity and it is best done when Jesus has the "choice" to share, to give, to teach. Socialism removes the choice and whether you like it or not, accomplishes this goal by the use of force.

I do not see the the benefits of socialism that you see. I see an unintended consequence in almost every socialist idea you listed above. Some stop staying behind there kids because the school will teach them. Others stop giving to charity because it is handled by the state.

Universal Health Care is a great example. I see this as a form of slavery until we find a better way. If we give away health care universally then we are forcing someone (the doctor) to give away his service. I don't know what else to call that than slavery. Now, Ron Paul's solution, the market solution, is to get government out of the way. The increase of competition would drive down prices and we would not have a corrupt regulatory agency making rules that cause medicines that are 9 cents a pill to cost $100 to produce and provide.

The more socialized health care gets, the more socialized education get, the more I see it as becoming far more expensive and more importantly far more inefficient. But we are so far apart on this. To me, your belief in socialism is a pipe dream that can never happen the way you see it. But, you probably beleive the same about my belief in limited government. I see Marx as a man with bad ideas and would rather we take our advice from Von Mises.

And yes, I see socialism as force. I see a lot of the programs we provide to our citizens as force. I believe in a free market, based on true capitalism, these wonderful ideas you see as socialism provided would be provided better by the market. Those that are more in need of things because of hard times, would be taken care of by more charity.

T Smith
10th October 2011, 17:26
Ron Paul worship is nothing new either.

You know, as nice as he sounds, I'm not buying the savior part.

It's never been about being a savior. If you believe that, then please go review information and re-assess.

Look, folks here on this forum, talk about a lot of good ideas. Then, even more inspiring folks here talk about what they will do, more importantly, to Act, to improve this world. Then other inspired folks talk about how people should not just talk, but take action for change, as some of those motivated folks do.

A lot of folks find one good idea or another. Some want to take down the system - some want to reinvent the system - some want to build a new system - some want to re-engineer the components of the old system and add new modularity - some want to build a new system con-currently while the old system declines - and so on.

Then, here comes one of the groups who have a lot of good ideas from the original rebellion (US Revolution/Constitution) against a Tyranny. Reborn and refreshed ideas that were ignored, abused, and purposefully down played by the usual control freak elites for 200 years. And, with the tension of Change and Revolution building in a group of new free thinkers, they aggregate their ideas into different groups and ideologies - which stand apart from, and want to overhaul the current state of the system.

One group wants to return to the original contract document that was drafted by the same folks who kicked the asses of the Tyrants out a few hundred years back. Let's say you found a "living" modern activist, with a large amount of experience - a track record of anti-establishment public action and integrity. And, that activist has the experience to engage the existing system, even though they want to radically change it for the better to return to the original concept. And, so there is Ron Paul.

And, folks here who claim they want more people to take action for change - well they refuse to give anyone else after Obama - a chance (who ran on change - and yes we all mostly fell for it!). Well, if a grassroots group, energized by those ideas, then began to grow at a rapid and exponential rate to support such an activist representative for freedom, without corporate money, who knows how to beat the system, what could happen?!?

Well - nothing, apparently. Because, people here still want to hold onto Left/Right paradigms (I'm a Liberal, yer a Conservative - I like Capitlaism, you like Communism.. Booo.. Hisssss - or something - but these are old programs!). OR, they were burned in the past by believing in the reform Candidate, like Obama, who later dashed their hopes! People, who like Ron Paul don't care that he is Republican - it is irrelevant and meaningless!!!

So, the message is for some - throw out the baby with the bath water. Certain people do not believe in Ron Paul - or that some mild mannered physician from no where special, would dare or even succeed at dismantling such powerful structures as the Federal Reserve, right? Yet look at the progress of late to bring discussion and dissent. Do you think the Anonymous hacker group or the Zeitgeist movement created the idea to END the FED??? - NO! They learned about and adopted the idea from Ron Paul. So, I ask you what change he has already stimulated from the shadows.

At any rate, many of the same folks here who want to change the world, and want to tell us all how to "bring light", and "do good", "take action", and "Be the Change". Well, if someone championing the Change actually appears - - -

...they frantically cry... "Nope, nope, can't be real. He will never succeed. He can't change anything. He is Left or Right. Nothing will improve anyway if he is elected, because .. blah, blah, [filling my own intellect with nihilism] blah, blah - Blah-ha!. He simply can't change anything! I don't believe because my own ego and facts tell me not to believe in changing anything, even if I tell everyone else to be the change... (and SO on)"

IF a grass roots movement DOES arise to try and improve the system by using what is available within legal means, THEN the same people who try to tell you to take action and improve things... well, a lot of them will also discourage and actually attack, criticize, denigrate, and disregard anything positive which actually does try make a difference.

Yup, Ron Paul might not save us all - very likely he will NOT - he might not even win the election. But, to the detractors here - my gosh, can you not even see how his influence has helped shape a key part of the global Truth/Revolution movement???

I will add that the Enlightenment movement, borne in large part in French cafes in the late eighteenth century, was nothing more than a "Project Avalon Forum" of the times. The U.S. Constitution was direct result of collective brain trust of the Enlightenment in response to TPTW. Sure, we can improve it. Of course it's not perfect. But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 18:03
p.s. Tell me again, why on Avalon, if we are discussing politics, aren't we discussing alternatives to the system the Elites set up for themselves?

Hi Dennis,

Respectfully, I understand and appreciate your view point. In some ways though, you sound like you have given up hope for any change with this quote. Or, maybe you just want a higher degree of change than I thought was possible as a starting point. I mostly agree, or have felt that way, but what alternative do you suggest, really?? My point was that it is not so realistic to erase the whole system and rebuild, on a white board from scratch. We may have to, more realistically, transition from a crummy system into an improved version, and finally into a more enhanced one, but over time.

Let me draw a parallel. Let's say there was some irrelevant internet forum out there who liked discussing truth, change, and ways to improve the world. Well, they could not possibly cause any awakening, right? Let's say a man like Bill Ryan, went about with more skill and courage than most of us to stimulate a movement. And, let's say he created Avalon, and created lots of wonderful material to empower and move others to action, folks like Dennis and myself. We are no-bodies, right? and we don't have any votes, or enough money as a banking corporation. Do we have all the answers?? Do we have all the numbers to make change??? Also, we don't have the voice of a media company with massive resource and outlets, right?? Does that mean we are not effective, productive, and/or meaningful in shifting the paradigm?? I don't think so. I think Avalon is a revolutionary forum that is helping to expand the awareness of all members, and regardless of who the symbolic voice is, we DO have real power for change.

I would argue changing certain parameters in the existing Govt structure of the US to restore it to a Constitutional body, subservient to the States, in turn subservient to Sovereign People, and which has minimal Federal powers, could indeed be an effective step to improvement - all the change will likely not happen overnight. It might take some leadership - not from Wallstreet or overseas corruption, such as now - but, with oversight from serious, awakened, and engaged citizens.

Also, I don't believe anyone on this forum, or likely on this planet, at this time, is a Buddha. But, I would not be voting for a Buddha for US President (why would such a being want a primitive job like that?). I would be voting for one last hope at changing the current system short or confrontational revolution. Maybe Ron Paul could take more direct action against the Fed as President. Maybe he could dismantle some of the corrupt Executive orders. Maybe he could clean up the executive regulatory agencies for the financial system or the environment/energy.

All that said, my Friend. I am all for listening to alternatives to the current system. Maybe it can happen more directly than with revolutionizing our existing system. I will look to you for better ideas if you have them, so please keep me informed.


Hi Arc,

I had a reply typed out, and with a Firefox crash, lost it and even the Lazarus software didn't have it.

I have given up hope for any change, if we do not change the electoral system first. But, as you will see, I most certainly have not given up hope.

I spent about 18 months researching and writing, synthesizing, citing, and paraphrasing, and editing - and the result was The Reset Button document. Yes indeed, the conclusions that smacked me in the face were that everything we have tried in decades, from petitions to calling and writing Congresspersons, to demonstrations, to voting have left us right exactly where we are - and we are here because that is exactly where the controlling Elite want things to be.

We don't even have to go off on the secret society or NWO tangent (which I do believe is the truth, but for this reply I won't even bother to go that far up the chain of command. Bankers corporatists and militarists are plenty far up the chain for this message to have validity.)

Simple collusion between bankers and Congress, and between Wall Street traders and Congress, and between large corporations (including the "defense", intelligence, and security corporations) and Congress is enough evidence of what devoured the United States and left US citizens shell-shocked, chronically indebted (in debt slavery, really), and feeling impotent.

There is no patch than can be applied by a president, however benevolent. Unlike the average US citizen, the Elite had no trouble figuring out what segment of government they needed to control in order to have complete control. They control the lawmakers, the legislative body, the US Congress. A great deal of what just went on in the last decade - literally in the range of tens of trillions of dollars going to bankers and corporations, and the invoice given to US citizens - was all legal. It was amoral, it was unethical, but it was legal. They made sure it was legal. They inserted only candidates that they approved of, as the final 2 on the ballot (so regardless which one won, they were going to be represented.) There are a handful of exceptions in each Congressional election cycle, but the percentage is always statistically extremely low. (They are the pressure relief valves for society - they serve the Elites as well, even though the Elites do not 'control' them the same way.) They make absolutely certain that the percentages, the ratios between who they control and who they don't, will always give them the legislative outcome that the Elites want. Always.

Possibly back in the 1940's or 1950's, there were sincere people with ideological differences of opinion about what was best for the US, in the US Congress. (With a tiny bit of compassion for other countries, but honestly, what was done for other countries was mostly because it was strategic - in "America's best interest.") Since then, the Elites have made a relentless attack on ownership, er, I mean control of Congress. Yes, they have chosen all of the finalists for the pageant known as the US presidential elections as well, but that is honestly mostly window dressing. Kind of like the conductor at symphonic performances - exerting a tiny bit of influence, but not significant. The major role of an Elite controlled US president is that the US president makes a lot of appointments - including ALL of the lifetime appointed judges and justices. So, now we have the Elites controlling Congress, making laws that are comfortable for banks, traders and corporations, and the president appointing bank-friendly, trader-friendly, and corporate-friendly appointees in every possible key position, and, just in case some rogue prosecutor who is honest (if such a beast even exists any more) gets loose and does his job, the judges and justices were handed lifetime appointed positions of power to make sure the Elite do well in any court case that might come up. Pretty sweet deal.

None of this is secret or esoteric knowledge. None of it. So, why do we allow them to hold that carrot out in front of us every few years, promising a new president or a new senator, or a new representative is going to make the difference? Why are we such suckers? Hope springs eternal. We are resilient and do not want to admit defeat. But, if we drop the false bravado, we will admit that they won. They completely control the political system. As long as we participate in the game, with the rules of the game the way they are set up, they will always, always get what they want. The ONLY hope we have is to change the rules of the game. How? Well, so far, the only plan (strategy plus strategic goal) that I have seen that has a chance of putting citizens in control is outlined in The Reset Button (http://www.ResetButton2011.org).

(Those in other countries will have to figure out the nuances of your political system to figure out a way for your citizens to gain control of your country. This plan is specific to the US.)

Dennis

Ilie Pandia
10th October 2011, 18:19
Hello,

Here is part of PM I've sent Dennis about socialism and I think is also useful to share it here.

*****

Just read your post about pro-socialism. And I agree with it, but I should also say that is incomplete!

And I'll take health care as an example. Please bear with me no matter how crazy it looks at first.

Having the state provide for health care, while good on paper and as an idea, had disastrous effects. The reason being: it fed Big Farma and the medical industry. It actually enabled Big Pharma and the medical equipment manufacturers, to practice exorbitant prices! Because they knew they will get the money from the health care program.

For the sake of the discussion, imagine if you will, that there is not a health care program, that there is no found that can be suckled at to maintain the exorbitant prices and antique, non-wholistic practices, of the doctors. Do you think any body would want to be a medic!? Or would they rather be working in prevention medicine, being a wholistic doctor, and making sure the costs are way way down! They would actually have to make sure that the patient gets what he pays for or he would be out of business.... is this the case now!?

Unfortunately the "XXXXX Care" programs that I see implemented, instead of helping they create artificially big prices!! (see also education for goodness sakes!) Let's follow the money trail, and we see how the money of the middle and poor class, actually go to make super rich the already rich class! This is why I loathe paying for medical care and for child care and for old people care! Not because I don't care about those, but because the money are wasted!!! into luxury goods, and super high unnecessary costs! They are taking advantage of the goodness in people to buy expensive cars while caring not of the children or elderly, unless you pay extra for private care!

Also this "government care" thing promotes a strange attitude: "Nah.. I won't bother with this.. the government will take care of me". More and more responsibility is sent towards the government and that is giving away your power! The help that people need is the help that empowers them, not what that creates dependency. And the government just looooves dependency of it. Sometimes a loaf of bread is what is empowering, but sometimes a good pep talk and "Go and make your own food!" is what is needed.

I agree we have a conundrum here, because yes! there are people that need genuine help, there are souls that need reminding of their infinite nature, there are children that need food, and we still need health care with all the crap in the food and the water. But the "care" programs we have in place don't work :(. Unlike what their name stands for, they actually are money sucking machines and purring them into the pockets of the already rich... I believe and see around me, how many of the people that benefit of the "care" programs are just lazy! while those that really need it don't get it!

So what is the solution to all this?! Well, your reset button document is quite good in my opinion! But that very document requires a prerequisite that we do not have :(. And that is a higher level or awareness, of consciousness. We should not have the need to enforce law, to make us behave! We should not need those law. We should give, not because is the law, but because our awareness tells us is for the higher good that every child has good food and shelter. Is for the higher good that everybody gets health care. Is for the higher good that if this year I was so fortunate to make extra, to send some to those that did not... not because is the law!

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 18:50
...To me, your belief in socialism is a pipe dream that can never happen the way you see it. But, you probably beleive the same about my belief in limited government. I see Marx as a man with bad ideas and would rather we take our advice from Von Mises.

And yes, I see socialism as force. I see a lot of the programs we provide to our citizens as force. I believe in a free market, based on true capitalism, these wonderful ideas you see as socialism provided would be provided better by the market. Those that are more in need of things because of hard times, would be taken care of by more charity.
I do believe in limited government - as small and as efficient as possible - and see the current government as terribly bloated with infrastructure and bureaucracy.

Socialism and capitalism are already coexisting in the US and have for quite a long time - through economic boom and bust. The social aspect does not create the bust. Bankers do, and they do it purposely. It is historical fact. Von Mises knew that as well.

Do you believe in ZERO taxes? Aren't taxes a way of being forced to share? And isn't tax money used for programs that (supposedly) benefit everyone? (like street lights, sewer systems, soldiers and firefighters and police salaries...)

If you believe in zero taxes, then you would have to assume that people would voluntarily give money to keep the streets plowed from snow in the winter, and potholes filled, and new pavement when necessary, and signage and striping on road surfaces, and street lights erected and bulbs and electricity paid, and traffic signals...

Or, you do think taxes are necessary, because hell no people would never willingly donate enough for even the road system, much less all of the many many things that taxes (ostensibly) pay for. And, if you think taxes are necessary - that is, we must be forced to pay taxes - then do you think the care of the pavement is a social responsibility but care of our impoverished brothers and sisters is not? How far do we go down that road before it raises a flag? What percentage of wealth accumulation is OK, and where does it hit obscene and amoral? You do realize how many US citizens are living in poverty right now, right? (Many are "working poor" who work full-time and still make such crap wages they are still impoverished.) And you do realize that number is going up, not down.

God help the vast majority of us if we have to endure a century of Von Mises "free market" capitalism in exchange for Friedman "free market" capitalism. If that's where our great spiritual enlightenment has brought us, we need a new guru.

Dennis

Ilie Pandia
10th October 2011, 19:07
I just want to clarify that I am not against heath care, child care, elders care or any kind of social support program. That is not what I am saying.

What I was trying to convey is that the current "care programs" do not work in the current paradigm, where profit (and not "care") is the driving force! I am not an American and I do not believe in the voting system any longer. I've been fooled too many times. But about Ron Paul, I see the same thing as Dennis: he is trying to make the USA profitable and his strategies may actually work! But you will have to ask yourself... in the current paradigm and state of awareness... who will benefit from that profit?

risveglio
10th October 2011, 19:19
...To me, your belief in socialism is a pipe dream that can never happen the way you see it. But, you probably beleive the same about my belief in limited government. I see Marx as a man with bad ideas and would rather we take our advice from Von Mises.

And yes, I see socialism as force. I see a lot of the programs we provide to our citizens as force. I believe in a free market, based on true capitalism, these wonderful ideas you see as socialism provided would be provided better by the market. Those that are more in need of things because of hard times, would be taken care of by more charity.
I do believe in limited government - as small and as efficient as possible - and see the current government as terribly bloated with infrastructure and bureaucracy.

Socialism and capitalism are already coexisting in the US and have for quite a long time - through economic boom and bust. The social aspect does not create the bust. Bankers do, and they do it purposely. It is historical fact. Von Mises knew that as well.

Do you believe in ZERO taxes? Aren't taxes a way of being forced to share? And isn't tax money used for programs that (supposedly) benefit everyone? (like street lights, sewer systems, soldiers and firefighters and police salaries...)

If you believe in zero taxes, then you would have to assume that people would voluntarily give money to keep the streets plowed from snow in the winter, and potholes filled, and new pavement when necessary, and signage and striping on road surfaces, and street lights erected and bulbs and electricity paid, and traffic signals...

Or, you do think taxes are necessary, because hell no people would never willingly donate enough for even the road system, much less all of the many many things that taxes (ostensibly) pay for. And, if you think taxes are necessary - that is, we must be forced to pay taxes - then do you think the care of the pavement is a social responsibility but care of our impoverished brothers and sisters is not? How far do we go down that road before it raises a flag? What percentage of wealth accumulation is OK, and where does it hit obscene and amoral? You do realize how many US citizens are living in poverty right now, right? (Many are "working poor" who work full-time and still make such crap wages they are still impoverished.) And you do realize that number is going up, not down.

God help the vast majority of us if we have to endure a century of Von Mises "free market" capitalism in exchange for Friedman "free market" capitalism. If that's where our great spiritual enlightenment has brought us, we need a new guru.

Dennis

I guess where we have the biggest disagreement Dennis is that I see you as blaming capitalism for the failures of socialism. I see one of the big problems, as you stated above, is that we already have socialism and capitalism co-existing. I do see the problem with the bankers and big corporations today as being more of a result of unsound money (THE FED) and crony capitalism which closer represents fascism. This co-existence of big government and big business which destroys the foundation of true capitalism.

I do believe in the idea of zero taxes and that roads, security and city maintenance could be done in the private sector but I don't agree on imposing that idea to an entire nation that is accustomed to a state baby sitter in one generation. I also believe that when the state is not manipulating the money and choosing winners and losers, the market could provide a larger portion of the population with the resources, through there own labor to provide there basic needs much better than any central form of government ever could. Now in a society where there is no taxes, i bet more people would do more things for free. Now this is not a rule of the theory but I think a result that probably would happen. I can see your attempt to vilify free market capitalism but it has hardly been tried where as every attempt of socialism that has been attempted, has failed.

Fred Steeves
10th October 2011, 19:50
I just want to clarify that I am not against heath care, child care, elders care or any kind of social support program. That is not what I am saying.

What I was trying to convey is that the current "care programs" do not work in the current paradigm, where profit (and not "care") is the driving force! I am not an American and I do not believe in the voting system any longer. I've been fooled too many times. But about Ron Paul, I see the same thing as Dennis: he is trying to make the USA profitable and his strategies may actually work! But you will have to ask yourself... in the current paradigm and state of awareness... who will benefit from that profit?

Now we're getting somewhere, IMHO. Also, please allow me to add that yet once again, I stand in awe of the intellectual capacity of my fellow members of Avalon. I feel extremely honored, as always, to be amongst you all! I've been thanking both opinions that I tend to agree with, and those not so much, simply because they are ALL so well thought out and articulated! Having said that, I'd like to plunge briefly into this conversation the way I used to like to do when entering a pool with my friends as a kid, with a running cannonball.:)

The way I see it, changing the rules to the inherent corrupt and various political ideologies crammed down our throats by TPTW as the only possible ways of doing things, is no different than re-shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's still their game in the end after all, and the results, no matter how cleverly we feel we are re-arranging the game pieces, will always be the same as they always have been for us. A lose-lose proposition.

We need to in effect take our ball and go home, and start our own damn game. No, I can't even begin as of now to be able to envision for myself or anyone else how this new game would look or work, but if we truly believe that it is our birth right to be co-creators in our own right in a universe of infinite possibility, then I am 100% convinced we can come up with one hell of a doozy!

These are momentous times we are fortunate enough to be a part of, and we need to start thinking big. REALLY BIG. Dare I even say "impossibly" big...

Cheers,
Fred

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 19:55
... every attempt of socialism that has been attempted, has failed.

Deeply ironic to see those words, written from one US citizen to another US citizen, on "Columbus Day (http://www.ahealedplanet.net/columbus.htm)" (yes, I realize Columbus was not "the one" in what is now the US, but he and his horde were certainly the first wave of ruthless oppressors in The Americas.) Ask a few of our fellow Avalon members that are Native American how many thousands of years their people lived, quite successfully, in what would be considered "socialism." Three hundred years after Columbus, the dominant elite capitalists (the US 'founding fathers', who were capitalists and slave owners) were still engaged in genocide against the indigenous populations living in a relatively socialist tribal lifestyle.

So, I have to disagree with your assertion quite strongly.

Dennis

risveglio
10th October 2011, 20:03
... every attempt of socialism that has been attempted, has failed.

Deeply ironic to see those words, written from one US citizen to another US citizen, on "Columbus Day (http://www.ahealedplanet.net/columbus.htm)" (yes, I realize Columbus was not "the one" in what is now the US, but he and his horde were certainly the first wave of ruthless oppressors in The Americas.) Ask a few of our fellow Avalon members that are Native American how many thousands of years their people lived, quite successfully, in what would be considered "socialism." Three hundred years after Columbus, the dominant elite capitalists (the US 'founding fathers', who were capitalists and slave owners) were still engaged in genocide against the indigenous populations living in a relatively socialist tribal lifestyle.

So, I have to disagree with your assertion quite strongly.

Dennis

Don't try to claim that the Native Americans were living as socialists. That is just blatantly not true and is just another attempt of yours to make yourself seem like some sort of good guy. Do I need to mention the horrors of Mao, Stalin, and countless others who were socialists?

Fact is that socialism has NEVER worked.

Dennis Leahy
10th October 2011, 20:35
Don't try to claim that the Native Americans were living as socialists. That is just blatantly not true and is just another attempt of yours to make yourself seem like some sort of good guy. Do I need to mention the horrors of Mao, Stalin, and countless others who were socialists?

I said, "relatively socialist tribal lifestyle", not "socialist."

If I have to make myself seem like some sort of good guy, then in your eyes I am not a good guy. The rift widens.

Mao and Stalin were not socialists. They headed ruthless totalitarian regimes that purposely misused the words communism and socialism. You need to read Marx and compare and contrast his writings to Russian and Chinese history under those two totalitarian dictators. No wonder you're afraid of socialism, you think Stalinist and Maoist dictatorships were socialist! That would scare the crap out of me too.

Oh, and the closest thing I have ever heard of to real communism was a convent.

I will step aside now, because we are beginning to simply lock horns and this feels like time not well spent.

Peace.

Dennis

risveglio
10th October 2011, 20:45
Don't try to claim that the Native Americans were living as socialists. That is just blatantly not true and is just another attempt of yours to make yourself seem like some sort of good guy. Do I need to mention the horrors of Mao, Stalin, and countless others who were socialists?

I said, "relatively socialist tribal lifestyle", not "socialist."

If I have to make myself seem like some sort of good guy, then in your eyes I am not a good guy. The rift widens.

Mao and Stalin were not socialists. They headed ruthless totalitarian regimes that purposely misused the words communism and socialism. You need to read Marx and compare and contrast his writings to Russian and Chinese history under those two totalitarian dictators. No wonder you're afraid of socialism, you think Stalinist and Maoist dictatorships were socialist! That would scare the crap out of me too.

Oh, and the closest thing I have ever heard of to real communism was a convent.

I will step aside now, because we are beginning to simply lock horns and this feels like time not well spent.

Peace.

Dennis

I've read Marx. Marx has a flawed view of humanity which is why his theories can not work. I also have a big problem when Marx is brought up because in my opinion, Von Mises, Hayek and plenty of others have given us enough proof that Marx was wrong. Have you read Nation, State, and Economy? Have you read Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis? They do a far better job of shooting down this concept of socialism than I ever could. But, when you read these works you know well enough that Marx should be forgotten, his ideas should no longer be taught as anything other than failed economics.

Ilie Pandia
10th October 2011, 20:54
Hello,

"socialist" and "socialism" are labels that you Dennis, and you risveglio use to label quite different things:

- Dennis seems to talk about a society were everybody is cared for as a group decision: "we are enlightened enough to see that as long as even one of us suffers we all do!". This Dennis calls "socialism" (as I understand it).

- risveglio, you on the other hand are applying the label of "socialism" to some actions taken by dictators (that are much closer to what I would call "fascism" or a totalitarian regime). Nothing to do with care and love for each other, even if they say they do, their actions say different

So, no need to fight on that label any longer :). You will both choose your timelines and, who knows, you may find that in the end, you've chosen the same one but you call it differently :biggrin:

161803398
10th October 2011, 21:10
This is what Norway does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

risveglio
10th October 2011, 22:12
Hello,

"socialist" and "socialism" are labels that you Dennis, and you risveglio use to label quite different things:

- Dennis seems to talk about a society were everybody is cared for as a group decision: "we are enlightened enough to see that as long as even one of us suffers we all do!". This Dennis calls "socialism" (as I understand it).

- risveglio, you on the other hand are applying the label of "socialism" to some actions taken by dictators (that are much closer to what I would call "fascism" or a totalitarian regime). Nothing to do with care and love for each other, even if they say they do, their actions say different

So, no need to fight on that label any longer :). You will both choose your timelines and, who knows, you may find that in the end, you've chosen the same one but you call it differently :biggrin:

I think by bringing in Marx, Dennis implied he is talking about Socialism, the political and economic theory. Now if we are trying to bring about a way where everyone is taken care of, that is not possible without force as long as the whatever is being provided, requires labor.

Ilie Pandia
11th October 2011, 01:06
Now if we are trying to bring about a way where everyone is taken care of, that is not possible without force as long as the whatever is being provided, requires labor.

I cannot speak for everyone nor can I know what I would do until actually faced with the decision, but I believe I would willingly donate part of my income to support people, processes and research that I think are important to support. And the very presence of this community and others like it, is evidence that I am not alone in this thinking. And this really gives me hope :)

risveglio
11th October 2011, 01:16
Now if we are trying to bring about a way where everyone is taken care of, that is not possible without force as long as the whatever is being provided, requires labor.

I cannot speak for everyone nor can I know what I would do until actually faced with the decision, but I believe I would willingly donate part of my income to support people, processes and research that I think are important to support. And the very presence of this community and others like it, is evidence that I am not alone in this thinking. And this really gives me hope :)

And that is a great thing. I would hope that all that are able to donate their time, energy, or money to the greater good would, but that is not what we are discussing when we start to talk about Marxism.

RMorgan
11th October 2011, 01:17
I've read Marx. Marx has a flawed view of humanity which is why his theories can not work. I also have a big problem when Marx is brought up because in my opinion, Von Mises, Hayek and plenty of others have given us enough proof that Marx was wrong. Have you read Nation, State, and Economy? Have you read Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis? They do a far better job of shooting down this concept of socialism than I ever could. But, when you read these works you know well enough that Marx should be forgotten, his ideas should no longer be taught as anything other than failed economics.

Well, I´m not sure. Currently, the biggest USA creditor is China, which is the biggest socialist country in the world. ;)

It´s proven that Capitalism doesn´t work, at least for 99% of the world´s population.

Anyway, both Capitalism and Socialism have huge flaws. We´re still to find out an economic system that actually works.

Anyway, about the presidential stuff, we all know that a president is just a puppet, in the USA, Brazil, or anywhere else. If any president steps out of the line, he´s out.

This is just an endless game to give us the illusion of political choice. There´s no left, no right. It´s just like a coin; It has two different sides, but it still a coin.

risveglio
11th October 2011, 01:23
I've read Marx. Marx has a flawed view of humanity which is why his theories can not work. I also have a big problem when Marx is brought up because in my opinion, Von Mises, Hayek and plenty of others have given us enough proof that Marx was wrong. Have you read Nation, State, and Economy? Have you read Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis? They do a far better job of shooting down this concept of socialism than I ever could. But, when you read these works you know well enough that Marx should be forgotten, his ideas should no longer be taught as anything other than failed economics.

Well, I´m not sure. Currently, the biggest USA creditor is China, which is the biggest socialist country in the world. ;)

It´s proven that Capitalism doesn´t work, at least for 99% of the world´s population.

Anyway, both Capitalism and Socialism have huge flaws. We´re still to find out an economic system that actually works.

And the Chinese follow capitalism far closer than we do when it comes to business. Capitalism has not been tried, lets try it before we say it doesn't work.

RMorgan
11th October 2011, 01:33
I've read Marx. Marx has a flawed view of humanity which is why his theories can not work. I also have a big problem when Marx is brought up because in my opinion, Von Mises, Hayek and plenty of others have given us enough proof that Marx was wrong. Have you read Nation, State, and Economy? Have you read Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis? They do a far better job of shooting down this concept of socialism than I ever could. But, when you read these works you know well enough that Marx should be forgotten, his ideas should no longer be taught as anything other than failed economics.

Well, I´m not sure. Currently, the biggest USA creditor is China, which is the biggest socialist country in the world. ;)

It´s proven that Capitalism doesn´t work, at least for 99% of the world´s population.

Anyway, both Capitalism and Socialism have huge flaws. We´re still to find out an economic system that actually works.

And the Chinese follow capitalism far closer than we do when it comes to business. Capitalism has not been tried, lets try it before we say it doesn't work.

Yes, China is a master of doing business. But I get your point. You´re talking about pure, idealistic Capitalism, right?

I´m not sure if we will be able to try it. After all those years, we´ve only experienced a tyrannical version of this system; the ugly side of capitalism ( Here in Brazil we call it Imperialism, for obvious reasons).

T Smith
13th October 2011, 14:31
There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama. ...

Now I am not one to believe that all the congressmen are under some elite control ...
... all politicians are evil, ...wouldn't you rather have a guy ...

The Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change. It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another.

... instead of camping on the streets of Wall Street for a movement that will probably lead us towards socialism.
risveglio, I fear there is a pretty wide divide between us ideologically, but please allow me to try to bridge the gap a bit.

"There really is no comparing Ron Paul to Obama"
I did not say Obama is better than Ron Paul. Nor do I believe it. That's not the point I was making.

"under elite control" is not a scenario out of a Hollywood sci-fi movie. Congressmen are not brainwashed or connected to some brain altering remote control device. It is much simpler that that: they were financially sponsored into their position of power. They "dance with who brung them." They ARE controlled: they are controlled by their greed and most significantly they are controlled by their desire for power - and the desire to continue on in their position of power. Many Congresspersons probably believe in the system as it exists and do not even see their sponsors as evil. They support them, and they are in turn supported. That is "control." That means they do not listen to citizens, they listen to their sponsors (via the sponsors' lobbyists.)

I believe you do not understand the workings of the three branches of government when you say "Ron Paul's America, if successful is a drastic change." The power of the presidency is an illusion. Legislative power is in Congress, not the White House.


" It promotes people taking care of themselves ... force against one group of people to help another."
I have to say, this mindset is deeply disturbing to me. There is the implied assumption that people are not taking care of themselves, i.e., not working hard enough, and that only the upper middle class and up (socioeconomically) have worked hard. The pyramidal structure of capitalism guarantees with 100% certainty that the majority of citizens will fall to a lower socioeconomic status regardless of how hard every single person works. If you do not understand this, you do not understand capitalism. If you do understand this, and are OK with it, I'll remind you that even if you are "hardworking middle class", you are exactly one major financial tragedy away from poverty yourself. If it happens to you, will you feel you deserved it?

And, I'd ask you to meditate a bit on the second part of that sentence ("force against one group of people to help another.") and see if that is what you really meant to say. Only a sociopath would need to be forced to help others who are sick, homeless, cold, hungry, afraid, lost. Unfortunately, we have not only found that about 1% of the population are sociopaths, but we find that the further up the socioeconomic scale you go, the more likely someone will be a sociopath. So yes, sadly, the richer someone is, the more likely they will need to be forced to help others (and the more likely they became rich by exploiting others.)


"lead us towards socialism"
Socialism:
Your signature line is "free energy now." That's socialism. Socialism is good. Jesus handing out lox and bagels instead of selling them - that's socialism. Socialism is cooperation instead of competition. Socialism is sharing resources, rather than allowing someone to own and horde resources and to eek them out - which is the "scarcity" paradigm, the opposite of the "abundance" paradigm (that "free energy" exemplifies.)

What is the basis of your fear of socialism? I know we could debate this for weeks, but the totalitarian state of USSR, for example, was not socialism and was not Marxism. Marxism never actually happened. It's like that goofy old line, "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum..." The concept of Marxism was instrumental in the Bolshevik revolution, but before anyone could actually establish Marxist socialism, the "Russian Statists" co-opted that movement, created a totalitarian State, and just for a twist of irony (and control of the masses), called it "Socialism." Real socialism is the pooling of resources, and the fair allocation of those resources. Like the fact that you do not have to personally pay for a fire department for your own house. Public schools, libraries, roads, bridges, sewers, water treatment plants, the weather service... those are all socialist. You and I have been lied to for so long that we have a nearly involuntary negative reaction to the word "socialism", kind of a Clockwork Orange aversion conditioning.

The opposite of socialism is pure capitalism: everything is owned by someone; nothing is shared. Pure capitalism in the hands of sociopaths is a pyramid scheme based on greed where very few at the top of the pyramid do extremely well, and by the pyramidal structure, a thousand or maybe ten thousand people at the bottom of the pyramid do very poorly. This is not due to their laziness; it is the design of a pyramid. In a capitalist system, if everyone worked equally hard, some would do very well (the clever and the well-connected) and most would do very poorly. There is nothing spiritual about capitalism. It is carnal, possessive, lustful, and greed-driven.You and I know in our hearts that sharing is more spiritual than owning, regardless how cleverly the capitalists phrase the defense of capitalism.

Capitalism is competition, the opposite of cooperation. There is nothing spiritually evolved or compassionate about capitalism. Hunger and poverty and illness among those impoverished will never be dealt with by capitalism.

Could socialism and capitalism exist simultaneously? Yes, that is how the US is set up right now. Only, the capitalists are getting greedier, and trying to shove out all socialism.

A business where five plumbers get together, pool their resources with equal input, and use that to buy a few trucks, some expensive pipe bending and threading equipment, advertising, receptionist, etc. - and who all own an equal share of the business - would be an example of a cooperative, which is socialist. They would be a socialist enterprise operating within the capitalist system (but hopefully, they would not be a part of the evil side of capitalism.)

Capitalism is not a monetary system. A monetary system of some sort is necessary, well, it is convenient so that you do not have to pay for your car repair in 31 jars of organic jam and 9 dozen organic eggs. The particular monetary system used by the current ruling bankers (the tip top of the power pyramid) - money created by debt using fractional reserve - is a scam benefiting only the bankers, so regardless what else we do with capitalism and socialism, we need to replace our "debt money" monetary system with a non-debt monetary system.

Ron Paul is anti-socialism and pro-capitalism. That's the final and unassailable truth. He is not spiritually evolved (or shows no outward sign of it.) He wants wars to stop because wars are expensive, fiscally irresponsible. He wants to end the Fed because he knows the bankers get the interest money, and that costs the US government money - again, not fiscally wise. So, Ron Paul is for some of the same things that a spiritually evolving person stands for, but it is not for enlightened reasons. With not just a Ron Paul president (the significance of a president is WAY overrated in terms of change in governance) but add several hundred individuals to Congress that think just like Ron Paul. What would the result be? The United States government, as a business venture, would be financially stronger. There would be less war. So yes, some good would come of it (but it would require hundreds of Congresspersons that think like Ron Paul. Don't lose sight of that fact.) What would NOT happen? Universal health care is one huge thing that would not happen - it is too expensive, and it is socialist. Poverty would not end, because ending poverty is a socialist concept, and it costs money. Major agricultural reform would not happen (Monsanto and the GMO plague would continue its march towards total dominance of food) - because they provide jobs and contribute the GNP, which a country run as a business would support. Big Pharma, Big Energy, Big Insurance would all survive pretty much intact, because they are the current employers and contributors to GNP. A drastic switch to green energy (not even including free energy) would not happen, because the infrastructure would cost a lot of money up front, would not be able to be borne by energy business, and would need to be subsidized by government. Education would be crippled by lack of funding or privatized, and public services like libraries would disappear.

One of the worst things about supporting Ron Paul for president has nothing to do with Ron Paul as an individual. Supporting ANY candidate within the election system they built for themselves is a vote supporting that system. It is that system that critically needs to change, not one or more of the personnel within that system.

We can do a lot, lot better than this. We have worked hard on our spiritual growth to get to a point where we blossom as individuals, communities, regions, countries, and as humanity. What a sad thing it would be to settle for "better than Obama" when we should be emerging into an immensely better paradigm of cooperation and sharing and wise stewardship. I can see a future, a not too distant future, where capitalism is allowed to remain a part of society, but only for those parts of society that have nothing to do with our needs. Basically, luxury items and luxury services being handled by capitalists - but even then I would demand restrictions on their capitalistic enterprises so that they were not free to exploit workers and rape the environment.

This is TOO LONG! I apologize. I could probably write a short story about the word "succinct"; I'm hopelessly verbose.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

You have exceptional clarity and understanding of the way our political system functions. There is no question you are spot-on in your overall assessment. It would seem to me, however, based on your discussion with risveglio and others, your clarity of mind may have forced you into a box of sorts, and it may be clouding your judgment of what's going on in this particular case. I've had this discussion with others here at Avalon, and for the most part, I feel our discussions have expanded all our differing viewpoints.

To be succinct, while I have no doubt you grasp the abstract mathematics, so to speak, I also believe you have not accurately assessed Ron Paul's presence in the equation. It would seem your overall view is that it is pointless to buy into a political theater fully bought, run, controlled, and sold to the public by the power structure, and that any participation in the political process is simply an endorsement of the power structure itself. I think you quite correctly point out that we need to tear down the theater entirely and erect an equitable and just social system based on our own control.

All said, I still support what Ron Paul is doing and will actively participate in the game. "Why embrace the controller's theater and buy into it?" you might ask. Because I want to see what happens when a non-actor, one who is not invited up on the stage, endeavors to assume a leading role via the will of the people. This is a direct confrontation to power structure. And this is the prospect we are looking at. It's as simple as that. It doesn't mean I subscribe to the system or even believe it can work or the confrontation will succeed. But it does mean we are all witnessing a bonafide David-and-Goliath-type scene playing itself out before our very eyes.

The main issue here is the vast majority of people have no understanding whatsoever of the game we are all playing. The people are fully unconscious and asleep and do not have the clarity of mind you describe so eloquently in this thread, and in others. That's the crux of our problem. Put aside the capitalism vs. socialism argument for just a moment (we can return to that conversation later); the crux is, the people are asleep... if and when they awaken to the world as it truly exists I believe the capitalism vs. socialism problem will work itself out. Even most who understand the game, as an intellectual exercise, still are not fully aware of the reality. They may receive the worldview you describe as a sort of "cynical" take on things, but not necessarily a "literal" take on things. But the truth is, the power structure is a literal construct, and the system (and the very reality) people buy into is all an illusion. It is all staged, and it is all controlled. In short, we as a species have little or no collective free will.

But back to my question: what will happen when an uninvited actor tries to wrestle his way unto this controlled stage? This is not something that happens (as you point out). But for sake of illustration, let’s say some rogue politician not a part of the act attempts to co-opt the system. Let's go through the probable stages of how such a scenario would play out. First off, the only way it could ever happen is if there were spontaneous awakenings. People who are not awake will not give Ron Paul any consideration because the controlling force that largely governs the consciousness has instructed them not to endorse an uninvited candidate. This is where we are now, and to some degree, Ron Paul (or the collective consciousness behind him) is somehow breaking through this barrier. I find that very intriguing, as I see a direct correlation between Ron Paul's political stock rising with people awakening to the very system you describe. How can you not support that? But let's say the awakening pushes the envelope and takes fire even more... then what would happen? Election Fraud? Which will lead to further awakenings and a milieu in which perhaps election fraud may not even work… What next then? An assassination? Same result. This whole scenario is a slippery slope as far as the power structure is concerned. At some point, if they continue to push back at what Ron Paul is doing, we get closer to some form of revolution...

But let's throw in your scenario: TPTB allow a Ron Paul presidency to transpire as a sort of release valve for the people. I'll start to worry about that scenario if and when I see them maneuvering toward that end. As of now, this is not what is happening. Frankly, I can't see them able to control Ron Paul (remember, if he's even able to reach the office it's ONLY because people in large part have awaken). The power of control, in large part, comes from manipulation of public opinion and using the unaware masses themselves as leverage against their own interests. In short, I see election fraud and/or assassination as a much more plausible card to play.

I will also disagree with you about Ron Paul’s motivations. I have read his books and I think he is possibly more enlightened and spiritually aware than you given him credit for. His belief in free humanity runs deep and is founded not on greed or in a two-dimensional belief in capitalism, but on a deeper spiritual understanding of reality. You may disagree with his findings and approach, but I don’t think it’s a fair assessment to say he not spiritually enlightened.

The bottom line here is, I think this is a real live David-and-Goliath scene playing itself out. I’m not at all saying it will achieve anything, but we would still be well served to support it. It is an act that could take down the system itself if enough people awaken to it and get behind it. Whatever you think of Ron Paul’s political views (which really don’t stray too far from a deep-seeded belief in free humanity) directly challenging TPTB, by taking aim at the infiltrated system, is the necessary prerequisite at achieving any new social order, like say, The Reset Button. Let’s strive to throw off our chains first, however we can. That starts first with awakening people. Once we're all active and aware we can re-group and come up with more plausible solutions to problems.

AlternativeInfoJunkie
16th October 2011, 01:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSLhlyUlQAA

stomy
17th October 2011, 18:46
Ron Paul Proposes Elimination Of Education, Energy Departments, Lowering Presidential Salary To $39,336

Today at 3pm on Las Vegas, perpetually ignored by the media on both the left and right presidential candidate Ron Paul will announce details of his $1 trillion proposal in government spending cuts, which will be the start of a process to balance the Federal budget in three . As Politico reports, "the Texas congressman will lay out a budget blueprint for deep and far-reaching cuts to federal spending, including the elimination of five cabinet-level departments and the drawdown of American troops fighting overseas." Amusingly, and if there is anything that will Paul brownie points with an electorate disgusted by those spreading hypocritical class warfare, "there will even be a symbolic readjustment of the president’s own salary to put it in line with the average American salary." Which will simply make it a given that every president going forward will have at least three laid off Hollywood scriptwriters preoccupied as ghost writers and writing presidential "autobiographies." For the royalties. But we digress. "The federal workforce would be reduced by 10 percent, and the president’s pay would be cut to $39,336 — a level that the Paul document notes is “approximately equal to the median personal income of the American worker.” We somehow doubt that even Paul will go as far as proposing a much needed overhaul of campaign finance, which basically forces every politician to wear sponsorship tags of all the Wall Street banks that have "gifted" a given politician and/or president in the past 5 years, but we can surely hope.

More from Politico:

Many of the ideas are familiar from Paul’s staunch libertarianism, as well as tea party favorites like eliminating the departments of education and energy. But Paul goes further: he’ll propose immediately freezing spending by numerous government agencies at 2006 levels, the last time Republicans had complete control of the federal budget, and drastically reducing spending elsewhere. The EPA would see a 30 percent cut, the Food and Drug Administration would see one of 40 percent and foreign aid would be zeroed out immediately. He’d also take an ax to Pentagon funding for wars.



Medicaid, the children’s health insurance program, food stamps, family support programs and the children’s nutrition program would all be block-granted to the states and removed from the mandatory spending column of the federal budget. Some functions of eliminated departments, such as Pell Grants, would be continued elsewhere in the federal bureaucracy.



And in a noticeable nod to seniors during an election year when Social Security’s become an issue within the Republican primary, the campaign says that plan “honors our promise to our seniors and veterans, while allowing young workers to opt out.”

Also, say goodbye to progressive tax:

Paul would also make far-reaching changes to federal tax policy, reducing the top corporate income tax rate to 15 percent, eliminating capital gains and dividends taxes, and allowing for repatriation of overseas capital without tax penalties. All Bush-era tax cuts would be extended.

Lastly, Obama's "revolutionary" healthcare overhaul, will be hauled over.

And like the rest of his GOP rivals, Paul would repeal President Barack Obama’s health care reform law, along with the Dodd-Frank financial regulatory reform law enacted last year. Paul, a longtime Federal Reserve critic, would also push a full audit of the central bank, as well as legislation to “strengthen the dollar and stabilize inflation.”

We look forward to the actual speech and hope to present it live to our readers.



Source: zerohedge.com

Source: http://revivall.over-blog.com/article-ron-paul-propose-l-elimination-du-ministere-de-l-education-de-l-energie-et-baisse-du-salaire-presid-86721541.html

jackovesk
18th October 2011, 02:14
Study Confirms Establishment is Terrified of Ron Paul

Figures prove Texan Congressman given least news coverage out of all Republican candidates

Monday, October 17, 2011

A new study by Pew Research Center confirms that the establishment is terrified of Ron Paul’s presidential campaign gaining momentum – figures show that despite his top tier showing in national polls, the Texan Congressman has received the least media coverage out of all the Republican candidates.

http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2011/10/ron-paul-2/large.jpg

“Ron Paul loyalists have been vindicated. After months of observations that the mainstream media was ignoring the libertarian standard-bearer, a new study by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism shows just that: the Texas Congressman, who has consistently polled in the high single digits — Real Clear Politics’s aggregate poll currently has him at 8 percent — has received the least overall coverage of any candidate. From May 2 to October 9, Paul appeared as the “primary newsmaker in only 2% of all election stories,” reports the Atlantic Wire’s John Hudson.

The figures, compiled from a list of 52 of the top mainstream news sources encompassing newspapers, cable news, and broadcast television, show that even the likes of Tom Pawlenty, who quit his candidacy last month due to lack of support, and John Huntsman, have received significantly more mainstream press coverage than Paul.

It’s not just news coverage where Paul has been deliberately sidelined. A scientific study undertaken by the University of Minnesota also shows that Paul has been given the least speaking time out of all the candidates during the Republican debates so far.

Indeed, Mitt Romney has enjoyed more than double the amount of time afforded to Ron Paul over the course of the last three debates.

Of course, this only confirms what we already knew after CNN talking heads admitted there was a media policy to deliberately ignore Ron Paul, even after he placed second in the influential Ames straw poll back in August.

These figures really bring to the fore how the establishment is terrified of Ron Paul’s campaign gaining traction. Paul routinely wins straw polls and habitually places second, third or fourth in national polls. He is a top tier candidate despite being almost completely ignored by the mainstream media. Imagine what his numbers would be if he was given merely double the amount of attention he currently receives, which still would barely touch that afforded to the likes of Romney or Perry.

If Ron Paul was allowed to compete on a level playing field, he would trounce all the other candidates and go on to defeat Obama by a landslide. Polls show that Paul would already narrowly defeat Obama in a hypothetical run-off despite the media campaign to blacklist him.

These statistics once again highlight how grass roots alternative media organizations need to pick up the baton and preach Ron Paul’s message of liberty to the general public, because they’re not even going to be informed of Ron Paul’s existence by the corporate media, never mind what his campaign stands for.

http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2011/10/17/Screen%20shot%202011-10-17%20at%208.03.33%20AM.png

http://www.prisonplanet.com/study-confirms-establishment-is-terrified-of-ron-paul.html

norman
18th October 2011, 02:17
But even if he got elected, and I still think it's a possibility, what could he stop?

Aryslan
18th October 2011, 02:20
I support Dr. Paul very much; wouldn't it be funny though, if he won and became the biggest dictator this country has seen? That would just figure. :becky:

@norman: He can stop plenty if he chooses, if given executive power. He can disband the fed, call our troops home, cut military spending, etc. He can't exactly do whatever he wants, but he could indeed make significant changes.

Camilo
18th October 2011, 02:22
Ron Paul is the man!

spiritguide
18th October 2011, 02:27
With the right people a good portion of what's wrong with this government. Stop the wars and their costs, re-establish habias corpus. and eliminate the fed bank. Just those three things will change the world for the better.

D-Day
18th October 2011, 02:36
This figures shown in this report are hardly surprising.

No prizes for guessing why the MSM is passive-agressively sabotaging Ron Paul's campaign efforts.

As much as it pains me to say it, he really doesn't have a hope in hell of winning the next election IMO.

MSM will see to that by doing everything in their power to sway public opinion against him... or by directing their attention towards other "more desirable" candidates.

Such a sad state of affairs, really!

norman
18th October 2011, 03:15
I haven't yet written off the idea that if the 'elite' can get all their ducks in a row by next year, they might actually WANT Ron Paul to win!

After all, once they have gutted America to make way for the NWO, they will be quite happy to have a bloke in the Whitehouse who takes care of Americans again. All these corporate puppets have been put in to get to the point where they can get their NWO. Once they know they are home and dry, they will gladly passify the people with a president they love. It will all help to bed the new system into place.

Lost Soul
19th October 2011, 06:33
That the MSM dislikes and fears him is endorsement enough.

PathWalker
21st October 2011, 14:18
But even if he got elected, and I still think it's a possibility, what could he stop?

It is about rebuilding a new economy, once the old one crumbles.

PathWalker
21st October 2011, 14:21
After all the leadership is a reflection of the nation.
So far the USA people sold up their freedom and liberty for greed.
We will see how they awaken and take back their power, or they don't. It is their choice.

Davy
21st October 2011, 14:45
This figures shown in this report are hardly surprising.

No prizes for guessing why the MSM is passive-agressively sabotaging Ron Paul's campaign efforts.

As much as it pains me to say it, he really doesn't have a hope in hell of winning the next election IMO.



MSM will see to that by doing everything in their power to sway public opinion against him... or by directing their attention towards other "more desirable" candidates.

Such a sad state of affairs, really!

Or like the case with Bush,,,, they can just change the votes! or Easier than that just manipulate the masses with media and lies and the sleepers will vote for the candidate most favorable for the cause of the Elite! While thinking their vote makes a difference??@!