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WhiteFeather
17th September 2012, 22:09
Thought id post this topic concerning margarine. My aunt has been eating margarine for awhile now, she's on cholesterol and blood medicines. Could Margarine be the culprit? Is margarine actually a good substitute for butter, I had my doubts. And it just might be worse than cigarettes. Have a peek.


The Nasty Process of Making Margarine

Today, the production of margarine is a unappetizing process which uses several toxic chemicals. Hereís an overview of the steps involved:

Vegetable oil is made from oil seeds such as soybeans, corn, cottonseed or canola. The seeds are cleaned and crushed and the oil is extracted by applying high temperatures and pressure.
Since heat and light accelerate the rate of the reaction between polyunsaturated oils and oxygen, this extraction process causes the oils to become rancid, producing unpleasant and noxious odors and flavors.
Any oil left in the seed pulp is removed with noxious solvents such as hexane, an known neurotoxin.
The crude oil is then degummed with acid to remove other impurities, and a caustic soda is added to remove the degumming acids.
The resulting gray and smelly oil is bleached with Fullerís earth (the same ingredient used in cat litter) and then filtered.
The rancid smells are removed through a high temperature steam cleaning deodorization process. This destroys any remaining nutrients and antioxidants.
The refined oil is mixed with a nickel catalyst and subjected to hydrogen gas in a high pressure, high temperature reactor. The high temperature and pressure in the presence of the nickel catalyst forces hydrogen atoms into the oil molecules, creating a partially solid, saturated product. This process is called hydrogenation. It is at this point that dangerous trans fats are created. Basically, the artificially created saturated fat molecules make their double bonds in the wrong places. These molecular misfits have been linked to inflammation, blood platelet stickiness, insulin resistance and other health problems.
The resulting gray, smelly grease is filtered to remove the leftover toxic nickel and other suspended materials.
The grease is then mixed with soap-like emulsifiers, then steam cleaned to remove the obnoxious odors.
The mixture is then bleached to remove the gray color, and artificial flavors, synthetic vitamins and natural colors (synthetic coloring is dangerous!) are added to improve the appearance and taste.
The mixture is now extruded into plastic tubs for sale.
Finally, clever advertising and marketing campaigns are implemented to promote the final product as a health food to the unsuspecting public, usually with the full endorsement of many scientists, doctors, nutritionists and health authorities.
As you can see from the process above, oil based spreads are NOT health foods, and should be avoided. Instead, choose real, clean butter, preferably in raw or cultured form. In the butter vs margarine debate, butter is the clear winner.

http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/margarine.html

DevilPigeon
17th September 2012, 22:19
-----

I'd class margarine as a plastic rather than a food... A bi-product of oil.

Much better to use either cold-pressed organic olive oil / coconut oil as an alternative if possible. Coconut oil is delicious ( I use Nutiva brand, available on Amazon UK)

gooty64
17th September 2012, 22:24
WhiteFeather, I am afraid this thread could get ugly!

LLrTPrp-fW8

Wind
17th September 2012, 22:49
It tastes bad and actually is bad for you. Butter all the way!

Maia Gabrial
17th September 2012, 22:52
If you left margarine outside, even the bugs won't touch it!

DeDukshyn
17th September 2012, 23:02
It tastes bad and actually is bad for you. Butter all the way!

Totally agree, while still not really good for you, it tastes a lot better at least ;)

DeDukshyn
17th September 2012, 23:09
If you left margarine outside, even the bugs won't touch it!

They won't touch butter either, except to get stuck in it by accident. But that method is a very good measure of food value -- the faster it rots or is consumed by nature's "recyclers", the more food value it has. This test is pretty much fail-proof and works even to show the reduced food value of GMO foodstuffs in comparison.

This reminds me, the other day I grabbed out of the cupboard an already opened and almost finished bag of some Indian chickpea noodle and peas snack mix type thingy. Poured a huge handful and shoved it in my mouth, poured another handful when movement caught my peripheral -- my handful was crawling with hundreds of tiny bugs. Yumm! I even Fear Factored it out and continued to chew and swallow the huge handful I was already eating (better than spitting it out and seeing it, lol ;)) I think they were actually adding flavour - wasn't bad at all! (ok, I dry heaved once) ;) At least I know it had food value! ;)

Kindred
17th September 2012, 23:21
Wow.. I didn't know what processes they used to create this stuff, but I still didn't like it. Now I Know Why it 'seemed bad'. How, can all this processing, produce something that is 'cheaper' than something natural? It really boggles the mind... Unless 'they' WANT you to eat this stuff.. and Pay to keep the prices low...

Food For Thought

WhiteFeather
17th September 2012, 23:48
Yes Aint Nothing Like The Real Thing Baby. Im a Butt er man all the way. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svAs-6MiqxE&feature=fvwrel

WhiteFeather
17th September 2012, 23:52
I have a few squeaky doors in my abode. Perhaps margarine could be utilized here. It may have some uses.

sigma6
18th September 2012, 00:48
Wow, I knew it was bad, and that they used chemicals to process it with, but I had no idea of the extent of the manufacturing process, that is just another scandal waiting to happen, as soon as people stop believing what television and magazine commercial advertisers spew out.

I have always stuck with olive oil, butter, and coconut oil, (knock on wood) and save animal fat, (as bad as it is, because of the hormones...) but still fry with it rather then ever consider a mechanically created vegetable oil.

Mercola has some excellent articles on the history of why vegetable oil came into such prominence ($$$$... ) Of course the margerine is damaging your aunt , no question about it... I found myself eating margarine for 2 months and noticed my eye sight deteriorated at an unbelievable rate. And it was just those little condiment portions.

Fats are made from fatty acids, acids are supposed to be highly reactive. For example if you put a tiny bit of unrefined unbleached (don't buy white) coconut oil, you will immediately notice a pungent tang. Even with animal fat there is that flavour reacting with your tongue, it's unmistakable...

But when you put margarine or any of that other stuff on your tongue, it's basically inert. There isn't any reaction happening. It is a liquid plastic. Everyone is talking about how even young relatively non obese people have cellulite. What do you think is causing that? even on young thin women? It's behaving like old oxidized fat as soon as it is consumed,the body cannot process it, God only knows what it is doing to the liver and kidneys and gallbladder. I can't imagine what these young people are going to look like when they actually reach into their late 30s and 40s... shame...

And finally I used to pick products that had soybean oil instead of canola oil for my mayonnaise, not anymore, I was just kidding myself because I couldn't part with my mayonnaise. Well I finally figured out the the healthy, smarter, and more cost effective solution to that.... MAKE YOUR OWN!...
DON'T EAT CANOLA, SOYBEAN, OR ANY MANUFACTURED VEGETABLE OIL PRODUCT!

How to Make Mayonnaise - Gordon Ramsay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSHXG-5ShFk

How To Make Mayonnaise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3xnKaHh8T4&feature=fvwrel

Making Mayonnaise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_Oi8p3Mb0

Sidney
18th September 2012, 03:44
If you left margarine outside, even the bugs won't touch it!

They won't touch butter either, except to get stuck in it by accident. But that method is a very good measure of food value -- the faster it rots or is consumed by nature's "recyclers", the more food value it has. This test is pretty much fail-proof and works even to show the reduced food value of GMO foodstuffs in comparison.

This reminds me, the other day I grabbed out of the cupboard an already opened and almost finished bag of some Indian chickpea noodle and peas snack mix type thingy. Poured a huge .handful and shoved it in my mouth, poured another handful when movement caught my peripheral -- my handful was crawling with hundreds of tiny bugs. Yumm! I even Fear Factored it out and continued to chew and swallow the huge handful I was already eating (better than spitting it out and seeing it, lol ;)) I think they were actually adding flavour - wasn't bad at all! (ok, I dry heaved once) ;) At least I know it had food value! ;)

DUDE- You are just NOT RIGHT . ROTFLMAO :rofl::boink:



I did hear once that margarine is one molecule away from plastic. Olive oil, butter, or coconut oil in our house.

therinkydinktink
18th September 2012, 04:26
This reminds me, the other day I grabbed out of the cupboard an already opened and almost finished bag of some Indian chickpea noodle and peas snack mix type thingy. Poured a huge handful and shoved it in my mouth, poured another handful when movement caught my peripheral -- my handful was crawling with hundreds of tiny bugs. Yumm! I even Fear Factored it out and continued to chew and swallow the huge handful I was already eating (better than spitting it out and seeing it, lol ;)) I think they were actually adding flavour - wasn't bad at all! (ok, I dry heaved once) ;) At least I know it had food value! ;)

An old boss of mine who used to manage a food factory once told me to take a handful of flour and look at it under a magnifying glass, it's full of tiny weevils. Big cake companies put it through so many sifts or sieves that they manage to get rid of them but the store bought flour still contains plenty.

Butter for me.

Ellisa
18th September 2012, 04:53
Low fat milk is also a very over-processed item, and whole milk contains an average of 4% fat, which actually qualifies it for low fat food in many places. Dairy products are good for most of us, but still we seem to prefer to eat the non-dairy muck that is manufactured in a factory. Many, (though not all), of the oil based margarines are not good for us, and some research has questioned the role of canola spreads in the development of macular degeneration, and other eye diseases (in quickly hushed up research!).

And then there is the question of sweeteners-- chemical, and also highly processed ones, as well as so called 'natural'. If you must add sweetness choose honey or cane sugar, and use it sparingly. It will do far less harm than artificial sweetener.

In my opinion we should keep our food choices as close as possible to natural, and that includes eating few pre-prepared meals and items.

therinkydinktink
18th September 2012, 05:29
Yes agree with you there Ellisa, I avoid everything with aspartame in it.

yiolas
18th September 2012, 06:23
:hug:Whitefeather, thank you so much for this detailed discription on what margarine really is. I've been trying for years to explain to my Dad how harmfull margarine is compared to real butter without any results. Perhaps now he will finally listen.

Carmody
18th September 2012, 06:34
Now for the really ugly part.

Margarine was designed to fatten turkeys, so the story goes.

Except for one tiny problem.

It killed them.

So..... they fed it to humans instead.

meeradas
18th September 2012, 06:42
this belongs here

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Carmen
18th September 2012, 08:31
Yep, margarine is crap. Butter, from grass fed cows is healthy and the colour is yellow, not white!!

conk
18th September 2012, 14:23
It tastes bad and actually is bad for you. Butter all the way!

Totally agree, while still not really good for you, it tastes a lot better at least ;)Not good for you? Who told you that? Butter is incredibly nutritious!

EsmaEverheart
18th September 2012, 14:57
A good rule of thumb, Melt a tablespoon of margerine and a tablespoon of butter. Look at both and decide which one you would want in your blood stream. Butter is much, much better for you!

gooty64
18th September 2012, 15:03
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If you left margarine outside, even the bugs won't touch it!

They won't touch butter either, except to get stuck in it by accident. But that method is a very good measure of food value -- the faster it rots or is consumed by nature's "recyclers", the more food value it has. This test is pretty much fail-proof and works even to show the reduced food value of GMO foodstuffs in comparison.

This reminds me, the other day I grabbed out of the cupboard an already opened and almost finished bag of some Indian chickpea noodle and peas snack mix type thingy. Poured a huge .handful and shoved it in my mouth, poured another handful when movement caught my peripheral -- my handful was crawling with hundreds of tiny bugs. Yumm! I even Fear Factored it out and continued to chew and swallow the huge handful I was already eating (better than spitting it out and seeing it, lol ;)) I think they were actually adding flavour - wasn't bad at all! (ok, I dry heaved once) ;) At least I know it had food value! ;)

DUDE- You are just NOT RIGHT . ROTFLMAO :rofl::boink:



I did hear once that margarine is one molecule away from plastic. Olive oil, butter, or coconut oil in our house.

DeDukshyn
18th September 2012, 15:19
Totally agree, while still not really good for you, it tastes a lot better at least ;)Not good for you? Who told you that? Butter is incredibly nutritious!

And who says cholesterol isn't a nutrient? :P

conk
18th September 2012, 16:10
Not good for you? Who told you that? Butter is incredibly nutritious!

And who says cholesterol isn't a nutrient? :PCholesterol is a nutrient. The brain craves the stuff. And cholesterol DOES NOT cause heart ailments! ;)

DeDukshyn
18th September 2012, 17:16
And who says cholesterol isn't a nutrient? :PCholesterol is a nutrient. The brain craves the stuff. And cholesterol DOES NOT cause heart ailments! ;)

I want to argue just for fun but I know well that cholesterol only becomes a problem when your body is lining your bloodvessels with it to help prevent a bigger problem (brittleness) and it gets oxidized and sticky due to large amounts of free oxygen species. In healthy people cholesterol is not an issue whatsoever so go get yer eggs and butter if you are in decent health! ;) ;)

conk
18th September 2012, 18:12
Cholesterol is a nutrient. The brain craves the stuff. And cholesterol DOES NOT cause heart ailments! ;)

I want to argue just for fun but I know well that cholesterol only becomes a problem when your body is lining your bloodvessels with it to help prevent a bigger problem (brittleness) and it gets oxidized and sticky due to large amounts of free oxygen species. In healthy people cholesterol is not an issue whatsoever so go get yer eggs and butter if you are in decent health! ;) ;)Correct sir! Cholesterol comes into play when the body is inflamed. Inside the blood vessels an inflamed area may pop up, so cholesterol makes it way there and smoothes over the inflammation to preserve the proper blood flow. Soon, so much cholesterol has built up that it may break loose and cause problems, the worst of which would be a heart attack or stroke. Reduce the inflammation in the body and let the cholesterol do it's normal jobs.

And please do not succumb to doctor's advice to get your cholesterol numbers as low as possible! Too low is worse than too high. Dr. Bruce West coined the term Cholesterolphobia or the unwarranted fear of cholesterol. Cholesterol drugs have never been shown (other than in fraudulent Big Pharma studies) to prevent heart attacks. The absolute gold standard in medical heart treatment for 30 years HAS NO BENEFICIAL RESULTS! Cholesterol has little or nothing to do with heart 'disease'. The heart can be healed with proper nutrients, usually raw materials from animal organs and glands.

From my heart to yours, Conk

Daughter of Time
18th September 2012, 18:55
Would you eat vaseline? If the answer is "no" then you should not eat margarine. It's synthetic so your body will not know how to process it. It will be stored in your vital organs and cause them to break down.

Butter is an animal fat so it all depends on your system. If you're a very healthy individual and you don't mind animal fats, then butter is good. But if you are in need of detoxification or have liver congestion or digestive issues, then butter is not a good idea either.

Paul
18th September 2012, 19:00
Correct sir! Cholesterol comes into play when the body is inflamed. Inside the blood vessels an inflamed area may pop up, so cholesterol makes it way there and smoothes over the inflammation to preserve the proper blood flow.

As best as I understand, the body uses cholesterol to patch up artery walls, especially in areas of high stress such as near the first few turns in the arteries leading from the heart, where the greatest blood volume and pressure is found, when the body is unable to find the nutrients needed to build collagen, the preferred material for strong and healthy tissues.

The key ingredient most often missing in our diets that is needed to build strong collagen is Vitamin C. Most of us would do well to consume 5 or 10 grams of Vitamin C per day, more if we have any significant health challenges. Collagen is needed to build strong tissues, including bones, throughout the body.

DeDukshyn
18th September 2012, 21:46
Correct sir! Cholesterol comes into play when the body is inflamed. Inside the blood vessels an inflamed area may pop up, so cholesterol makes it way there and smoothes over the inflammation to preserve the proper blood flow.

As best as I understand, the body uses cholesterol to patch up artery walls, especially in areas of high stress such as near the first few turns in the arteries leading from the heart, where the greatest blood volume and pressure is found, when the body is unable to find the nutrients needed to build collagen, the preferred material for strong and healthy tissues.

The key ingredient most often missing in our diets that is needed to build strong collagen is Vitamin C. Most of us would do well to consume 5 or 10 grams of Vitamin C per day, more if we have any significant health challenges. Collagen is needed to build strong tissues, including bones, throughout the body.

You are correct on the cholesterol.

One thing to keep in mind with mega doses of vitamin C is that it actually becomes a pro-oxidant at some point as opposed to an anti-oxidant. Is this bad? Maybe not, because anti-oxidants are vastly misunderstood in their mechanisms of action - your body uses free oxygen species to perform some very important tasks - consider the way a white blood cell destroys a parasite ... it injects it with free oxygen. ORAC values are another big scam, as anti-oxidants can work synergistically and recycle one another -- the types of anti-oxidants is more important than the amounts. Just some general info. ;)

Paul
18th September 2012, 21:50
One thing to keep in mind with mega doses of vitamin C is that it actually becomes a pro-oxidant at some point as opposed to an anti-oxidant.
I would imagine, not sure though, that buffered Vitamin C, meaning the various ascorbate salts with sodium, potassium, calcium and/or magnesium (especially potassium or magnesium) would be healthier in this regard than ascorbic acid (meaning essentially bound with hydrogen rather than with an alkali or alkaline mineral).

DeDukshyn
18th September 2012, 21:57
One thing to keep in mind with mega doses of vitamin C is that it actually becomes a pro-oxidant at some point as opposed to an anti-oxidant.
I would imagine, not sure though, that buffered Vitamin C, meaning the various ascorbate salts with sodium, potassium, calcium and/or magnesium (especially potassium or magnesium) would be healthier in this regard than ascorbic acid (meaning essentially bound with hydrogen rather than with an alkali or alkaline mineral).

According to the research by Linus Pauling .. yes. ;)

You may be interested in these two articles:
http://drnibber.com/antioxidants-orac/
http://drnibber.com/antioxidants-part-ii-free-radicals-proverbial-villains-hero/ (http://drnibber.com/antioxidants-part-ii-free-radicals-proverbial-villains-hero/)

Amysenthia
19th September 2012, 00:47
I agree. Margarine is one of the worst of the trans-fat hydrogenated products there are. I am always preaching to everyone I know to not use margarine and to use butter. Somehow butter started getting a bad rap when the whole cholesterol scare hit the news. Ghee made from clarifying butter has been the main stay of Ayurvedic medicine and is recommended for a variety of issues.

For people afraid that butter may raise their cholesterol I highly recommend reading the myths about cholesterol on www.DrMercola.com. He exposes the flawed science behind cholesterol numbers and also mentions that people should not eat margarine as a butter substitute or at all.

Mu2143
19th September 2012, 05:48
One thing to keep in mind with mega doses of vitamin C is that it actually becomes a pro-oxidant at some point as opposed to an anti-oxidant.
I would imagine, not sure though, that buffered Vitamin C, meaning the various ascorbate salts with sodium, potassium, calcium and/or magnesium (especially potassium or magnesium) would be healthier in this regard than ascorbic acid (meaning essentially bound with hydrogen rather than with an alkali or alkaline mineral).

http://www.ionizers.org/antiaging.html

THE AGING PROCESS

We get old because we are not disposing of all the internally generated wastes and toxins, and accumulate the leftovers within our body.

For our body to function and to maintain body temperature, we burn nutrients within our cells. The main ingredients of all foods, expensive or inexpensive, gourmet or junk, vegetable or meat, alkaline or acid, are either carbohydrates, proteins or fats. And they are nothing but the combinations of four elements: carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen.

After these nutrients are burnt (oxidized) in the cells, they all turn into organic acids: carbonic acids, uric acids, lactic acids, fatty acids, ammonia, etc. Fats are acidic even before oxidation. The Chinese word for oxygen is written with two characters, "sahn-so". They literally mean "acid root".

Paul
19th September 2012, 07:16
THE AGING PROCESS

We get old because we are not disposing of all the internally generated wastes and toxins, and accumulate the leftovers within our body.

For our body to function and to maintain body temperature, we burn nutrients within our cells. The main ingredients of all foods, expensive or inexpensive, gourmet or junk, vegetable or meat, alkaline or acid, are either carbohydrates, proteins or fats. And they are nothing but the combinations of four elements: carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen.

After these nutrients are burnt (oxidized) in the cells, they all turn into organic acids: carbonic acids, uric acids, lactic acids, fatty acids, ammonia, etc. Fats are acidic even before oxidation. The Chinese word for oxygen is written with two characters, "sahn-so". They literally mean "acid root".
This appears to me to be a rather over simplified bit of marketing speak, for a water ionizer product.

I agree that drinking more alkaline (basic) water is typically healthier, and that a water ionizer is one way to make such water. A water ionizer (a gadget that typically costs approx $1000 to $2500) splits the acidic molecules (proton donating, which tends to be electron stealing) from the alkaline molecules (proton stealing, which tends to be electron donating) in water, outputting two water streams from the one input stream, one stream more alkaline, the other more acidic.

Mu2143
19th September 2012, 08:38
THE AGING PROCESS

We get old because we are not disposing of all the internally generated wastes and toxins, and accumulate the leftovers within our body.

For our body to function and to maintain body temperature, we burn nutrients within our cells. The main ingredients of all foods, expensive or inexpensive, gourmet or junk, vegetable or meat, alkaline or acid, are either carbohydrates, proteins or fats. And they are nothing but the combinations of four elements: carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen.

After these nutrients are burnt (oxidized) in the cells, they all turn into organic acids: carbonic acids, uric acids, lactic acids, fatty acids, ammonia, etc. Fats are acidic even before oxidation. The Chinese word for oxygen is written with two characters, "sahn-so". They literally mean "acid root".
This appears to me to be a rather over simplified bit of marketing speak, for a water ionizer product.

I agree that drinking more alkaline (basic) water is typically healthier, and that a water ionizer is one way to make such water. A water ionizer (a gadget that typically costs approx $1000 to $2500) splits the acidic molecules (proton donating, which tends to be electron stealing) from the alkaline molecules (proton stealing, which tends to be electron donating) in water, outputting two water streams from the one input stream, one stream more alkaline, the other more acidic.

I am not saying that ,but the info about the alkaline diet is a good one.