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jc71
14th October 2012, 21:47
Hi all,

I don't post very often. I usually just keep an eye out for interesting new topics or new information on old topics of interest. However, I would welcome your thoughts on creeping doubts I have about certain theories that I have bought into over the last couple of years.

Let me put one such topic forwards that I am having a problem with; maybe you can let me know your thoughts?

The validity of Obama's birth certificate. I was convinced this was a complete forgery when I looked into it in April 2011, and last night I put this forward to a "conspiracy sceptic" as I thought it was a good example of something that was clearly a "lie to the masses".

After the discussion I thought: "I will just brush up on the info and send the proof over to my friend", but when I checked, I found that the evidence was no longer quite convincing enough. And the next logical thought going through my mind is: "hold on - am I believing what I want to believe and am I buying in to conspiracy theories that don't actually hold up?"

If you have thoughts on this matter generally, or you have specific information about my example, I would very much welcome your input.

Regards,

JC

Snoweagle
14th October 2012, 23:00
Whats not so convincing?
The birth certificate has never been produced. What has been produced are a series of "documents" purported to be genuine when in fact they were good forgeries or online "photoshopped" artwork. Obama has lied throughout.
As you live in the UK, worrying about the LIAR in the White House should be the last of your worries considering the "Tom and Jerry" idiots we have here in Westminster.

In future when asked to provide proof to a third party, tell them to go find it themselves or give them directions. Don't waste your time with redoing old "legwork" for couch potatoes.

GCS1103
15th October 2012, 00:47
There have been some pretty convincing documentaries and books that the birth certificate produced was a forgery. I don't know what the truth is; all I know is that it's extremely odd that a President of this country had his school records and birth certificate sealed. In a country where the press digs up scandals from 40 years ago on certain people, I find it beyond incredible that the most powerful politician in the world can conceal so much of his life before he took office.

divine_moments_of_truth
15th October 2012, 01:01
The problem with believing that Obama's records have been falsified is that you are lumped together with the far right group of Americans who simply don't like the President because of their prejudices. I for one don't know what to believe, and I don't know how the situation differs for you in the UK.

I have found myself believing certain "conspiracy theories" because they go against the general consensus of the population and make sense at the time. Then I'll revisit that topic later and it will sound completely foolish to me.

Sometimes I feel like I really need to be there to know the truth.

Max

Warlock
15th October 2012, 01:02
No matter.

He will remain in office until he has served his purpose.

Warlock

DevilPigeon
15th October 2012, 01:14
Hi all,

I don't post very often. I usually just keep an eye out for interesting new topics or new information on old topics of interest. However, I would welcome your thoughts on creeping doubts I have about certain theories that I have bought into over the last couple of years.

Let me put one such topic forwards that I am having a problem with; maybe you can let me know your thoughts?

The validity of Obama's birth certificate. I was convinced this was a complete forgery when I looked into it in April 2011, and last night I put this forward to a "conspiracy sceptic" as I thought it was a good example of something that was clearly a "lie to the masses".

After the discussion I thought: "I will just brush up on the info and send the proof over to my friend", but when I checked, I found that the evidence was no longer quite convincing enough. And the next logical thought going through my mind is: "hold on - am I believing what I want to believe and am I buying in to conspiracy theories that don't actually hold up?"

If you have thoughts on this matter generally, or you have specific information about my example, I would very much welcome your input.

Regards,

JC

I think if you immerse yourself in a subject for too long, then doubts are a natural part of the thinking/analysis process... A bit like the "head" convincing the "heart" that it was wrong all along.

Barring any irrefutable evidence that comes along at a later time, try to hold onto your initial gut/heart feeling... Don't let the head fool you. I say this about anything, not just the subject at hand. Trust your heart.

It reminds me of a great quote from "The Usual Suspects" film - "The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist"

Latti
15th October 2012, 01:37
Below are links to an article in the mainstream press about Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaiou's initiated investigation. Conservatives tend to think the Sheriff is attempting to enforce the laws of the U.S and Maricopa County, while liberal views indicate that the Sheriff is a raciest and attempting to divert attention from his legal problems.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-07-18/arizona-sheriff-obama-birth/56296272/1
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-01/arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio-obama-birth-certificate/53318688/1

President Obama's birth certificate and social security number are about as elusive as President G.W. Bush's military record. There are also allegations that President G.H.W. Bush isn't a native born son. People with the right connections whether in the U.S. or U.K seem to do quite well at concealing vital information.

AriG
15th October 2012, 01:45
I really don't see what difference it makes one way or the other. Here we are, on this orb, this circular orbiting rock, arguing about whether someone has the right to be occupying a space based upon where he or she was born on a segment of that space that really isn't space, but illusory and circular. A circular argument. Acknowledging that the NWO proponents want an end to borders, it is difficult to argue on behalf of their absence. That said? We share one planet. If the intent is pure and for the benefit and advancement of our species, arguing about the GPS coordinates of one's entry seems infantile ( pun intended ).

I couldn't care less whether he was born on the moon. What I care about is whether he is going to step up to the plate and do the very specific things that he promised that he would do to further mankind's cause. Probably not, but focusing on his place of birth is as relevant to the issues as women's reproductive rights. A smokescreen. A polarizing argument. Intentional anarchy. A waste of energy.

nizkri
15th October 2012, 01:51
So true AriG :).. it doesnt matter

I really don't see what difference it makes one way or the other. Here we are, on this orb, this circular orbiting rock, arguing about whether someone has the right to be occupying a space based upon where he or she was born on a segment of that space that really isn't space, but illusory and circular. A circular argument. Acknowledging that the NWO proponents want an end to borders, it is difficult to argue on behalf of their absence. That said? We share one planet. If the intent is pure and for the benefit and advancement of our species, arguing about the GPS coordinates of one's entry seems infantile ( pun intended ).

I couldn't care less whether he was born on the moon. What I care about is whether he is going to step up to the plate and do the very specific things that he promised that he would do to further mankind's cause. Probably not, but focusing on his place of birth is as relevant to the issues as women's reproductive rights. A smokescreen. A polarizing argument. Intentional anarchy. A waste of energy.

ghostrider
15th October 2012, 03:08
If there were no issues with his birth certificate, he would have shown it the next day, and it would be a non issue and we're off to the next talking points/manipulation. By stonewalling the president and his handlers made his birth certificate a huge issue. Look at it, all the world focused on his piece of paper instead of the piece of paper that takes away your freedoms, and the right to an attorney, etc. NDAA ... It was one of those I want you to look at this , so secretly I can do that and you won't know , your to busy with looking over here to see whats going on over there ....

GCS1103
15th October 2012, 03:33
I really don't see what difference it makes one way or the other. Here we are, on this orb, this circular orbiting rock, arguing about whether someone has the right to be occupying a space based upon where he or she was born on a segment of that space that really isn't space, but illusory and circular. A circular argument. Acknowledging that the NWO proponents want an end to borders, it is difficult to argue on behalf of their absence. That said? We share one planet. If the intent is pure and for the benefit and advancement of our species, arguing about the GPS coordinates of one's entry seems infantile ( pun intended ).

I couldn't care less whether he was born on the moon. What I care about is whether he is going to step up to the plate and do the very specific things that he promised that he would do to further mankind's cause. Probably not, but focusing on his place of birth is as relevant to the issues as women's reproductive rights. A smokescreen. A polarizing argument. Intentional anarchy. A waste of energy.

You make a good point, AriG. However, to some of us it's not really his place of birth that's important: it's who is this man and how did he get where he is. I, for one, find it very frightening that a man can get elected to the highest office in this country and we know very little about him. I'm not a far right crazy; just someone who feels they've been duped by this guy.

truth4me
15th October 2012, 04:12
There have been some pretty convincing documentaries and books that the birth certificate produced was a forgery. I don't know what the truth is; all I know is that it's extremely odd that a President of this country had his school records and birth certificate sealed. In a country where the press digs up scandals from 40 years ago on certain people, I find it beyond incredible that the most powerful politician in the world can conceal so much of his life before he took office. Bingo! We have a winner!


Besides do clones have birthdates or do they have "made" dates applied to them???:gossip:

nizkri
15th October 2012, 04:21
its just not that important i think , it is the way it is , ofcourse he dont have an legit background , thats the way the game is unfortunately

You make a good point, AriG. However, to some of us it's not really his place of birth that's important: it's who is this man and how did he get where he is. I, for one, find it very frightening that a man can get elected to the highest office in this country and we know very little about him. I'm not a far right crazy; just someone who feels they've been duped by this guy.[/QUOTE]

we-R-one
15th October 2012, 04:40
sigh........really?? of all the topics out there, this one bugs you the most? I'm gonna sound like a broken record as I've posted this before, but here goes again.....THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation- every city, state, and county has an EIN # which you can look up on DUNS AND BRADSTREET. What this means, is this country is run as a coroporation which follows corporate law, common-law, not common law. Therefore the PRESIDENT is nothing more than a CEO of a corporation and the CEO of a corporation according to corporate law doesn't have to be born in the country he's running. So all this talk of the birth certificate being a forgery is nothing but wasted time and a well thought out diversion to take one's mind away from things that really should have one's attention.

sorry if I sound snippy....just tired of all the time spent on a topic that really has no significance considering all the other c r _ p going on.......I wish you well.

gripreaper
15th October 2012, 05:02
sigh........really?? of all the topics out there, this one bugs you the most? I'm gonna sound like a broken record as I've posted this before, but here goes again.....THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation- every city, state, and county have an EIN # which you can look up on DUNS AND BRADSTREET. What this means, is this country is run as a coroporation which follows corporate law, common-law, not common law. Therefore the PRESIDENT is nothing more than a CEO of a corporation and the CEO of a corporation according to corporate law doesn't have to be born in the country he's running. So all this talk of the birth certificate being a forgery is nothing but wasted time and a well thought out diversion to take one's mind away from things that really should have one's attention.

sorry if I sound snippy....just tired of all the time wasted on a topic that really has no significance considering all the other c r _ p going on.......I wish you well.

And the CEO of the US corporation, which is bankrupt and in receivership I might add, who does he answer to? Well, the board of directors and the preferred shareholders.

No, not the common shareholders, but the ELITE who OWN the corporation and their minions who are on the boards. Admiralty Law and the Uniform Commercial Code is all you need to know.

O bummer can sign executive orders just like any chief executive can, without the approval of Congress, because congress cannot tell the chief executive of the corporation what to do!

Quit thinking of the UNITED STATES as a country with a Representative Government chosen by the people. THAT IS A LIE!!!!!!! (inordinate number of exclamation points!)

Operator
15th October 2012, 05:09
Hi JC,

I think your OP focus was meant more on the creeping doubt than the Obama example, right ?

Yes, I salute you on reviewing your opinions. I try to do that every so often. Throw everything
in the garbage can and then rebuild the case and see if you come to the same conclusion.
I recently re-listened to the Pete Peterson interview. Boy, I heard lots of things that I simply missed the
first time. Sometimes you just fill in the 'blanks' while at the 2nd time you may have more background
info so you don't have to guess the blanks anymore.

I like to listen to talk radio a lot ... but in the end I more and more realize the guests often are authors
of books that are promoted. So the commercial aspects are soaked into this all again.
Before we know it we are the new herd.

Tane Mahuta
15th October 2012, 08:40
No matter.

He will remain in office until he has served his purpose.

Warlock

I too concur...

if the puppet does not serve the purpose by which he/she

was put there...the puppet will be removed from office...

TM

jc71
15th October 2012, 12:06
Hey all,

Thanks for all your replies. Here are my responses:

Snoweagle - This was part of my problem - I thought the same as you regarding photoshopped artwork, but I am not 100% convinced any more by that argument. And I agree that living in the UK, this is not top priority for us directly but it was an example that I could use to illustrate my problem - a problem I still have...

GCS1103 - Yes I agree with you - I am just struggling with hard facts, but I guess that is the problem we all have...

divine_moments_of_truth - I think you know where I am coming from - that is the point of the post - revisiting later and then feeling foolish when it doesn't stand up and you feel like you may have followed a crowd (even if an alternative crowd :) )

Warlock - simple wise words - probably true - I just used this as an example

DevilPigeon - That makes sense to me thank you - I suppose my lesson is not to try to "prove" to anyone else - I just have to satisfy myself - am thinking about your Usual Suspects quote...

Latti - thanks for the links - I have looked into these recently and I am not sure that this Sheriff has a completely neutral agenda and I think he may be using evidence that has already been shown to be false - I will follow this with interest

AriG - I like your infantile pun :) - I suppose that what I am questioning in general is some of the information I have believed as true about many topics, and this is just one example that I found easiest to convey. I think that is what I am learning from this - not to try to persuade anyone else about facts that are pretty much impossible to prove one way or the other anyway

nizkri - Yes agreed - just my point was wider, but AriG's answer still might apply to the wider issue - I am thinking about it

ghostrider - Thanks for your angle on it - I think you have a good point - smoke and mirrors / sleight of hand

truth4me - Yes this is a good point indeed - we have a situation in the UK right now though where something has come out about a famous person after 50 years - the answer was in the power he wielded over the people who might spill the beans - so that does put up a red flag regardless of whether the birth certificate looks forged or not - thanks for your angle

we-R-one - No I think you missed my point - this is not one of the topics that bugs me most - it is one of the topics I found most easy to illustrate my "creeping doubts" about many topics. But your point about it being a waste of time and a diversion - I think you might be onto something there thank you...

gripreaper - thanks for your input - maybe my solution is developing now after reading all the above responses - I should not be so concerned about these things that are put in front of us and should be looking more at the other magicians hand and what it is doing whilst I am looking at what is being presented to me...

Operator - you got my intention right, yes - the creeping doubt was the focus of my post - I think our thinking is in tune as I agree with what you are saying and I think I mentioned earlier in this response at some point feeling like following another crowd rather than the original crowd - thanks - am thinking on it

Regards,

JC

pyrangello
15th October 2012, 13:30
The united states of america would be nothing if not for it's citizens, Just a france, Italy , and on and on. If it not for the people of that individual country then that land would be nothing but just that, a body of land . It just so happens that this body of land called america was created and built by many men and woman from around the world from so many different ethnic backgrounds and countries and up until now has been a huge success, for me 2 grandparents that were 100% polish, another grandparent 100% irish and another 100% german. Were a people that are humble and love to create, and whenever deployed to some foreign land to help others are always wanting to come home after the mission is accomplished as we know we helped out as much as we could have. Many many good souls have given their life so that freedom does indeed ring around the world. America does rise to the occassion when help is needed and always has. When the Banda Ache tsunami hit American donations individually and collectivley topped over 2 billion dollars .This had nothing to do with our government but by americans. All this being said , does the birth certificate really matter, on an abstract view of the orb theory, not really, but on a theory that collectively we can indeed move mountains together when asked to trust a certain individual then there must be no doubt. Having taken over 2 years to produce a birth certificate, really? And have all your college records sealed, really? I don't even need an answer as the answer has already been spoken without a word.

There is a true dignity in holding the office of president of the united states no matter how many puppet string , conspricy theories, illuminati influence rabbitt hole ideas that are out there, some true and some not. That person who indeed is called president does represent the american people and the body of land called america and entrusting that person to represent me is important. If our conscious energy is so important in this illusion of this lifetime then trusting an individual to take the point lead is just as important as it can be of a direction of energy. I didn't vote for our president but I did give him the benefit of the doubt for true hope and change, I really did want to see this accomplished in bringing all of us together, and when elected there was that window of energy shift to indeed accomplish that arund the world. Looking at a snapshot view of today this country is more divided than ever and for that I am very dissapointed that the window of opportunity has been missed.

I was talking to my neighbor last night and we had a discussion and a question , if martial law was ever to be imposed, who do you think would pull that trigger faster, Obama or Romney? I'll let you answer that and trust your own answer.

FYI, I'm not a big fan of either party here in america, I am an independent who votes for whoever I think is the best person for the job. We all like to take pride in what we do best in ,no matter what country in this world that you reside in. That being said "It does start at the top" and it does have a relevance to our believes/energy and how we use it individually and collectively. Just my thoughts :) enjoy the day.

RMorgan
15th October 2012, 14:34
Hey mate,

I´ll tell you my opinion.

Until you have a first hand experience with something, you simply don´t have enough material to form a solid (really solid) opinion.

It doesn´t matter how hard you try; What you see/read on the internet or books is always intangible and biased information and you rarely have the opportunity to ponder upon the various faces of the same story.

We´re all biased persons. It doesn´t matter what subject you´re researching, *you´ll always look for information that reinforces your point of view/belief system.

Using the Obama birth certificate issue as an example: Have you ever researched for articles trying to prove his birth certificate is genuine? Probably not, but I bet there are such articles out there.

So, you have simply trusted (without questioning) something you´ve read on the internet because such information is aligned with your mindset.

When you´re judging information, do just like a honest judge does in a court of law; listen closely to both the prosecutor and the defense, carefully analyze the accusatory and defensive evidences, and then take your conclusions.

Even in a court of law they have the jury, which is formed by a bunch of random persons, to make sure the verdict is not affected by the biased mind of a single person or a specific group of people.

It´s impossible for a single individual to be completely unbiased while judging information, but if you´re truly focused on finding out the truth, you should try as hard as you can to be impartial ,unprejudiced and never, absolutely never **ignore information just because it goes against your beliefs.

Cheers,

Raf.

* First fundamental mistake of truth seekers
**Second fundamental mistake of truth seekers.

truth4me
15th October 2012, 15:39
No matter.

He will remain in office until he has served his purpose.

Warlock

I too concur...

if the puppet does not serve the purpose by which he/she

was put there...the puppet will be removed from office...

TM Big Bingo here!!!! This has more truth in it I do believe in any reply including my own.

Tarka the Duck
15th October 2012, 15:43
Doubt is one of the most useful tools in our emergency kit: it's a method we can apply in our search for the truth, and I see it as a positive trait that helps us fight rigid dogma.
In fact, the word skeptic comes from the Greek, skepsis, which means examination, inquiry, consideration.

Voltaire wrote, “Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” Many are certain, and claim that their belief, their view, their conclusions are "the truth". There is subtle pressure to go along with the beliefs of a group - some of the replies on this thread show that :o - when in fact, the very claim that someone's belief is the truth can shut down enquiry. It should actually be the beginning of the search, not the end.

I can't help but wish that more would consider modifying their claims a little: a touch of self-scepticism is useful now and again! When people appear to be utterly convinced about the vaiidity of their theories, alarm bells sound in my head. Give me someone who's not totally sure of themselves and isn't afraid to doubt - I find them far more open.

truth4me
15th October 2012, 15:44
jc71, you wouldn't happen to be talking about Jimmy Savile would you? Lot of stuff I'm reading about Jimmy Savile coming out of the UK seems to imply he was a very perverted person.....

jc71
15th October 2012, 18:00
Hey mate,

I´ll tell you my opinion.

Until you have a first hand experience with something, you simply don´t have enough material to form a solid (really solid) opinion.

It doesn´t matter how hard you try; What you see/read on the internet or books is always intangible and biased information and you rarely have the opportunity to ponder upon the various faces of the same story.

We´re all biased persons. It doesn´t matter what subject you´re researching, *you´ll always look for information that reinforces your point of view/belief system.

Using the Obama birth certificate issue as an example: Have you ever researched for articles trying to prove his birth certificate is genuine? Probably not, but I bet there are such articles out there.

So, you have simply trusted (without questioning) something you´ve read on the internet because such information is aligned with your mindset.

When you´re judging information, do just like a honest judge does in a court of law; listen closely to both the prosecutor and the defense, carefully analyze the accusatory and defensive evidences, and then take your conclusions.

Even in a court of law they have the jury, which is formed by a bunch of random persons, to make sure the verdict is not affected by the biased mind of a single person or a specific group of people.

It´s impossible for a single individual to be completely unbiased while judging information, but if you´re truly focused on finding out the truth, you should try as hard as you can to be impartial ,unprejudiced and never, absolutely never **ignore information just because it goes against your beliefs.

Cheers,

Raf.

* First fundamental mistake of truth seekers
**Second fundamental mistake of truth seekers.

Hey Raf,

Thanks for your reply - you make a lot of sense and I agree with your point.

You got one thing wrong though... I did go round looking for evidence on the other side of the argument, and that is what triggered my doubts.

So yes, I agree that we should always look at both sides of the argument and in a round-a-bout way I think that is the point I am trying to debate in the thread.

Cheers,

JC

jc71
15th October 2012, 18:08
Doubt is one of the most useful tools in our emergency kit: it's a method we can apply in our search for the truth, and I see it as a positive trait that helps us fight rigid dogma.
In fact, the word skeptic comes from the Greek, skepsis, which means examination, inquiry, consideration.

Voltaire wrote, “Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.” Many are certain, and claim that their belief, their view, their conclusions are "the truth". There is subtle pressure to go along with the beliefs of a group - some of the replies on this thread show that :o - when in fact, the very claim that someone's belief is the truth can shut down enquiry. It should actually be the beginning of the search, not the end.

I can't help but wish that more would consider modifying their claims a little: a touch of self-scepticism is useful now and again! When people appear to be utterly convinced about the vaiidity of their theories, alarm bells sound in my head. Give me someone who's not totally sure of themselves and isn't afraid to doubt - I find them far more open.

Hi Tarka,

Thanks for your response - I am 100% in agreement with you about alarm bells when people are 100% certain about anything.

Erm..., oh hold on, let's say 95% otherwise am I breaking my the rule about being certain about anything...? ;)

Regards,

JC

jc71
15th October 2012, 18:14
jc71, you wouldn't happen to be talking about Jimmy Savile would you? Lot of stuff I'm reading about Jimmy Savile coming out of the UK seems to imply he was a very perverted person.....

Hi truth4me,

Yes that is the guy. It appears he did a lot of things to a lot of people, but the interesting thing about it was how his "power network" meant that all of these people kept quiet about it for up to 50 years and only now feel able to talk about it.

There is some lesson about power-play to suppress the truth and then subsequently confidence of a group action once people feel that there are others who feel the same as themselves (i.e. the people who are now speaking out because others have spoken out).

Regards,

JC

we-R-one
15th October 2012, 19:38
Hey all,

Thanks for all your replies. Here are my responses:

we-R-one - No I think you missed my point - this is not one of the topics that bugs me most - it is one of the topics I found most easy to illustrate my "creeping doubts" about many topics. But your point about it being a waste of time and a diversion - I think you might be onto something there thank you...

gripreaper - thanks for your input - maybe my solution is developing now after reading all the above responses - I should not be so concerned about these things that are put in front of us and should be looking more at the other magicians hand and what it is doing whilst I am looking at what is being presented to me...

Regards,

JC

Thanks for clarifying JC.....Basically what myself and gripreaper are telling you is fact, there's no conspiracy involved. All you have to do is check out the DUNS and BRADSTREET like I mentioned or take a gander at our court system to see what's really going on. I promise you it will further verify what both of us have shared. Once you understand this, it makes the argument pretty much obsolete. I have often wondered why Sheriff Arpaio has spent so much time and money on this topic when the above information is not hard to figure out. It makes me question what his agenda really is.....

In regards to your comments to gripreaper my thoughts are this....I wouldn't even say that the other magicians hand is worthy to look at unless you want to keep playing the same old game of duality. The real magic lies outside the realm of the preconceived misconceptions you have always known to be "home". Your focus should lie within the spiritual aspects of this paradigm shift and nothing else. This is a fight for your soul and "they" don't want you to understand that, which is why you are being inundated with meaningless bull crap- in order to direct your attention away from what you really should be focusing on. How do I know this? Because hardly anyone is talking about it,...and that should be your first clue. Step outside the sandbox and take the opposite direction from the seemingly "in the know" crowd . Once you do, you will see that much of what's going on is insignificant to the real matters at hand.

Rocky_Shorz
15th October 2012, 19:56
lol, can't wait to hear all the Republicans demand Romney's Birth certificate...


Romney was born to American parents living in the Mormon colonies in Mexico...

Rocky_Shorz
15th October 2012, 20:36
so the big question is, what would your feelings be about having Paul Ryan as President starting in January...

The tea party's dream...

Romney tossed aside as ineligible...

The Ryan budget plan signed and sealed...

Good try Koch...

but we caught it in time...


Gabriel J. Chin, Professor of Law at the University of Arizona, however, believes under the current law not all persons born outside of the United States to U.S. citizen parents are eligible to serve under the natural born citizen clause.[46][47] wiki

jc71
15th October 2012, 21:04
Hey all,

Thanks for all your replies. Here are my responses:

we-R-one - No I think you missed my point - this is not one of the topics that bugs me most - it is one of the topics I found most easy to illustrate my "creeping doubts" about many topics. But your point about it being a waste of time and a diversion - I think you might be onto something there thank you...

gripreaper - thanks for your input - maybe my solution is developing now after reading all the above responses - I should not be so concerned about these things that are put in front of us and should be looking more at the other magicians hand and what it is doing whilst I am looking at what is being presented to me...

Regards,

JC

Thanks for clarifying JC.....Basically what myself and gripreaper are telling you is fact, there's no conspiracy involved. All you have to do is check out the DUNS and BRADSTREET like I mentioned or take a gander at our court system to see what's really going on. I promise you it will further verify what both of us have shared. Once you understand this, it makes the argument pretty much obsolete. I have often wondered why Sheriff Arpaio has spent so much time and money on this topic when the above information is not hard to figure out. It makes me question what his agenda really is.....

In regards to your comments to gripreaper my thoughts are this....I wouldn't even say that the other magicians hand is worthy to look at unless you want to keep playing the same old game of duality. The real magic lies outside the realm of the preconceived misconceptions you have always known to be "home". Your focus should lie within the spiritual aspects of this paradigm shift and nothing else. This is a fight for your soul and "they" don't want you to understand that, which is why you are being inundated with meaningless bull crap- in order to direct your attention away from what you really should be focusing on. How do I know this? Because hardly anyone is talking about it,...and that should be your first clue. Step outside the sandbox and take the opposite direction from the seemingly "in the know" crowd . Once you do, you will see that much of what's going on is insignificant to the real matters at hand.

Thanks we-R-one - I have re-read yours and gripreaper's responses and I see exactly where you are coming from. With this particular topic I am barking up the wrong tree, or possibly in the wrong forest... I'll take a look over in the other forest as you recommend :)

Regards

JC

Rocky_Shorz
15th October 2012, 21:32
for those who sat saying NO way... you are right, you should have had doubts the moment you read it...

Romney's father was born in Mexico

I used part of the facts with a slight twist to create a heart pounding gone viral story in moments...

how many did a quick check of facts before sharing it with others?

how many knew and were just too polite to comment?

we all have built in hinky meters, our goal is to start to listen...

sorry, but I need to have fun once in a while too... ;)

scanner
15th October 2012, 21:43
Manipulation , what a fantastic word . Disorientation and mind control , really ? It's just a ride .

Rocky_Shorz
15th October 2012, 21:52
it is what we are living daily...

the airways are filled with partial truth lies...

knowing how to read between the lines is what makes us all special...

noprophet
15th October 2012, 22:36
Just remember to balance.

Doubt becomes aggressive dismemberment just as easily as belief becomes arrogant assertion.

gripreaper
15th October 2012, 23:12
Hey all, Thanks for all your replies. Here are my responses:

we-R-one - No I think you missed my point - this is not one of the topics that bugs me most - it is one of the topics I found most easy to illustrate my "creeping doubts" about many topics. But your point about it being a waste of time and a diversion - I think you might be onto something there thank you...

gripreaper - thanks for your input - maybe my solution is developing now after reading all the above responses - I should not be so concerned about these things that are put in front of us and should be looking more at the other magicians hand and what it is doing whilst I am looking at what is being presented to me...

Regards, JC

Thanks for clarifying JC.....Basically what myself and gripreaper are telling you is fact, there's no conspiracy involved. All you have to do is check out the DUNS and BRADSTREET like I mentioned or take a gander at our court system to see what's really going on. I promise you it will further verify what both of us have shared. Once you understand this, it makes the argument pretty much obsolete. I have often wondered why Sheriff Arpaio has spent so much time and money on this topic when the above information is not hard to figure out. It makes me question what his agenda really is.....

In regards to your comments to gripreaper my thoughts are this....I wouldn't even say that the other magicians hand is worthy to look at unless you want to keep playing the same old game of duality. The real magic lies outside the realm of the preconceived misconceptions you have always known to be "home". Your focus should lie within the spiritual aspects of this paradigm shift and nothing else. This is a fight for your soul and "they" don't want you to understand that, which is why you are being inundated with meaningless bull crap- in order to direct your attention away from what you really should be focusing on. How do I know this? Because hardly anyone is talking about it,...and that should be your first clue. Step outside the sandbox and take the opposite direction from the seemingly "in the know" crowd . Once you do, you will see that much of what's going on is insignificant to the real matters at hand.

We-R-One, do you remember how you felt when you first realized that the whole story about the United States was a big lie? I do. I was pissed beyond measure, because it shook me to my core and forced me to re-evaluate EVERYTHING. Nothing fit into the paradigm, or the context from which I viewed my reality.

After I did the whole review, I found out, that nothing I had been taught was true, and I had to abandon all of the precepts which I had based my whole life around. This is not easy for many to do, as it shakes the whole apple cart up and requires a ton of restructuring, even rewiring the very synapses in your brain between the hemispheres.

It's difficult to tell American's that there is no united states representative government, that there is no ownership of assets, that they were hypothicated as chattel for the bankruptcy, and that all their energy flows upstream to the globalists. It's tough to swallow, BUT the truth will set you free.

Right?

gripreaper
16th October 2012, 02:30
October 12, 2012

The former presidential candidate told CNBC Wednesday that he still won’t back Republican candidate Mitt Romney, and that both Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are the GOLDMAN SACHS CANDIDATES!

Paul told CNBC: The people who run the Federal Reserve make sure their interests are protected. They have their two guys there, believe me! Why does Obama not attack Romney for being a Goldman Sachs candidate? It’s because they both are within the establishment! Neither one of them have the vaguest idea of what Austrian economics and sound money economics is all about. They play the game and they represent the one-party system.

Some people say why don’t we get a 3rd party? I say, why don’t we get a 2nd party!?! I’ve been in this business for a long time, and there is essentially NO DIFFERENCE FROM ONE ADMINISTRATION TO ANOTHER NO MATTER WHAT THE PLATFORM!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t3vZeJvb9U&feature=player_embedded#t=40s

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson] signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" — Congressional Record 12595-12603 — Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries." — Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975

we-R-one
16th October 2012, 02:51
We-R-One, do you remember how you felt when you first realized that the whole story about the United States was a big lie? I do. I was pissed beyond measure, because it shook me to my core and forced me to re-evaluate EVERYTHING. Nothing fit into the paradigm, or the context from which I viewed my reality.

After I did the whole review, I found out, that nothing I had been taught was true, and I had to abandon all of the precepts which I had based my whole life around. This is not easy for many to do, as it shakes the whole apple cart up and requires a ton of restructuring, even rewiring the very synapses in your brain between the hemispheres.

It's difficult to tell American's that there is no united states representative government, that there is no ownership of assets, that they were hypothicated as chattel for the bankruptcy, and that all their energy flows upstream to the globalists. It's tough to swallow, BUT the truth will set you free.

Right?

My answer is probably a little more complicated than most....surprisingly I wasn't as shocked as one might think.....I was more shocked by my star seed identity than anything else....You see as a young child, I had always known that something was very wrong. I fought everything- systems, going to church....anything that required conforming. This is quite common for someone with a star seed background, it's by design to be used at a later date, like now, lol...we just know. Going against the grain is normal for us which is why we are labeled "black sheep"

For me, "discovering" that our world was not set up for the reasons we had been told, was more than welcoming, as it validated my reasoning for feeling the disconnect all these years. Finally, a frame of reference to confirm the logic behind my thoughts and actions, which had often been chastised by both my superiors and peers, because I did not follow; no, because I refused to follow, the herd in the same programmed manner......

And you want to know something really weird......When I was 5, and in kindergarten.....you know what my favorite thing to do was??? My favorite thing was to play the role of the fairy princess......and in my class, the role of the fairy princess was to tap each child on the shoulder with the magic wand and wake them up from their nap.....and since you know a little about me....interesting how that parallels what I've been doing for the past 4 years....playing roles that wake people up....Coincidence? or by design? was I remembering my future role?

And yes, the truth does set you free.....because as Mr. Icke has said, they can control your mind, they can control your body, but they cannot control your consciousness!