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S-L
16th October 2012, 13:57
All major religions have a sacred center. It is not for everyone in this lifetime. Only some are ready to follow the path. These few begin the journey into their inner core. They all take different routes, but the goal is the same: reconnecting with their higher self. There is no higher state than allowing the divine to express itself through you. You become a vehicle for something greater. This is enlightenment. It is a potential in all of us. It is the only means of ending this reincarnation cycle. It is at the core of every major religion. Islam has the Sufis. Buddhists have Zen. Jews have the Hassids. Christians have the Gnostics. Hindus have Yoga. These are spiritual practices and not mere teachings. They bestow the truth of experience. Past masters have written about their experiences. Let these be guideposts only. The truth is available to you directly. It is a potential in all of us.

The new popular teaching of ascension does not provide a path to your inner core. It provides a mechanism for being rescued from this state of reality. Achieve a certain percentage of positive thoughts and deeds and you graduate to the next level. Like a videogame. You get points for being positive and giving, lose points for being negative and selfish. It is superficial. It does not provide a means of hearing that small inner voice. The mind reigns supreme as the ego divises ways of reaching the next level. It is all about what the mind wants. It is a trap.

Humanity has infinite potential, this is true. A personality can only achieve this powerful state by dissolving itself into the whole and allowing spirit to act through you. This is what it means to be illuminated. Ascension reinforces the ego by giving it a job to do. Act this way. Think this way. Do this deed. Manifest this reality. The ego steps up to plate and does all sorts of tricks. But the small voice goes unheeded. Your higher self waits. Maybe next lifetime.

Can you still your mind for 1 minute? Try this. Look at the hands of a clock for 1 minute. Think of nothing else. Your entire attention is on the hand - no thoughts! How many seconds did you last? Most of us don't last very long. That's okay: we were never trained for this. Training is available for the serious student. While others busy their minds scheming to ascend to the next level, these students learn to quiet their minds and listen. They learn stillness, patience, compassion, discretion, discernment, awareness, focus, concentration, and more. Quieting the mind makes room for something else to come in. Eventually, you will be in a state of meditation 24/7. You will even maintain conscious awareness as your body sleeps. And then something special happens. Then you can express something real and bring a little slice of heaven down here on earth. The world badly needs this expression. We need 10,000 Buddhas. Ascension is not the way.

WhiteFeather
16th October 2012, 14:06
Good Thought OP. Ascension IMO = Expansion of Awareness. So If we expand our awareness could this expansion of awareness give us stepping stones towards enlightenment. Just a thought!

Carmody
16th October 2012, 14:37
I can blank the conscious mind at any moment. That is the easy part to learn.

When that happens (which I can do at any moment), I can still feel the rustling of pre-words, proto-thoughts, trying to form in the hindbrain, the whisperings and murmurings of the lower layer.

The pressures of avatar design, action and execution - still remain.

To still the self fully, and allow that which is within to really emerge, the lower layer must also be stilled. and THAT..is a long drawn out process of emotional origins clearing, as the design of that part or basis of existence, is the avatar's learned parameters. The genetic norms and the learned/established parameters, the emotional turmoils that have come into being and shaped those channels of proto-thought.

And when THOSE channels are ALSO cleared, then the real doorway opens.

ljwheat
16th October 2012, 15:05
There is another way of being -- Duality is the only one taught on this planet. -- On purpose -- duality is a control program of old.

I don’t think having a answer to any of it means a hill of beans. also an old program.

The Sun shines on all things in its presence, no exception or questioning or taking sides, Neutral to left brain right brain analyzing every little detail to death and then forming an opinion one way or the other.

In schools and churches and at home we've been taught since birth about duality, even into higher learning and above.

Learning about Neutrality and unconditional shining on all things with out duality has been purposely left out of the equation completely. Inner spirit shining on all things as the Sun -- unconditionally -- neutral not taking sides -- unlearning sides and practicing shining on all things as Neutral is -- OK -- is the true alien invasion no one saw coming and enslaving humanity. The holy grail of Duality is the soul ‘class’ taught on this planet.

We were never shown Neutrality - unconditional shining of acceptance in all things are shined on by Sun no choosing who is worthy or who is worthy -- neutral -- totally.

The greatest secret of secrets -- The Sun is unconditionally shining. Inner spirit shining unconditionally on all things, not inner brain judging all things. It never had anything to do with knowledge or thinking. But has everything to do with shining. We were taught the wrong class dualistic humanism and nothing else was ever offered -- total control from the start.

“The pain you feel”, Is the love you with hold.” on all things.” big and small. Reflect on sun light as your inner light and you’ll never go astray. Or chase after men’s words. Is it possible to break the chains of duality thinking, I believe so.

RunningDeer
16th October 2012, 15:37
No adjectives
Words gone missing
Light shines
Farmer jeans and sneakers
And GPS
All gone missing

RMorgan
16th October 2012, 15:49
Hey mate,

Pretty interesting question, indeed.

Well, in my opinion, ascension, as it is discussed nowadays, is enlightenment for lazy people.

You know, most teachings about enlightenment show that it requires a lot of effort, discipline and very serious sacrifices to achieve this specific state of being.

Most people who expect some sort of ascension, however, think that they can just continue living their selfish lives, doing all sorts of stupid and contradictory stuff, and it will happen automatically, with zero effort and discipline.

So yes, in a sense, the idea of ascension has replaced the idea of enlightenment, but only for myopic persons.

Cheers,

Raf.

Kiforall
16th October 2012, 15:53
Neutrality is the balance between positive and negative. We need to embrace both sides of the coin to experience that balance.
Ascension to some people seems to bring thoughts of rescue, be it drawn up into the light or saved by ET's but it is when you accept that we belong on the Earth in this life that we succumb to the Planet's life force. We are here NOW and should make the most of it.
It makes me laugh when you have people like Will I Am sending songs of love onto Mars. What about keeping your feet firmly on this planet and feeling the love here?

Rocky_Shorz
16th October 2012, 16:12
Enlightenment means schooled, Ascension means success...

the goal of all religions have always been ascension, modern times have just changed the words...

we-R-one
16th October 2012, 16:23
IMO, this is the proper definition of ascension:


ASCENSION- On an individual level, ascension is the process of changing one’s consciousness from one reality, based on one set of beliefs, to another. On a group or planetary level, ascension is the collective expansion of a state of consciousness (set of beliefs) to the point where that consciousness creates a new reality—a new state of being or dimension (*The Hundredth Monkey Syndrome).
For example, 3D is about the belief that, this is the only life that we have and if you can’t touch it, taste it, see it, feel it or hear it, it doesn’t exist. 5D, is about Christ or Unity consciousness where we realize that we are all connected—we understand and live in oneness.


Ascension is happening, but not in the context that many have been taught to believe.

Camilo
16th October 2012, 16:26
Has Ascension replaced Enlightenment? ...... not by a long shot. You can't ascend unless you're enlightened.

greybeard
16th October 2012, 16:37
Yes, the silent mind is priceless.
Enlightenment is a fact testified to by sages.
Ascension is a maybe so in the future--hypothetical.
I know what I strive for.

We may be coming to a time when Christ consciousness comes into being--- that's the same as enlightenment to the best of my knowledge.
Its all One anyway-- an end to the flawed perception that duality is reality..

Chris

DeDukshyn
16th October 2012, 16:49
Maybe I'm old school, but I never learned that ascension was about being rescued. That is never what it is about for me. The term these days is a gross generalization and those cause problems in communications.

It is funny though how the meaning of things shift, and rather rapidly I have noticed,. Some of these actions are guided to keep people confused.

In my world "ascension" cannot happen without enlightenment. It is a pre-requisite.
Here is my personal view of what is ascension (this is the short version -- you may have to use your imagination a little):

Originally posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?50892-Wavelength---&p=569386&viewfull=1#post569386


Everything "vibrates" in a sense - this can be seen as a wave. Even matter exists due to its vibration, let's change the tuning to say a B from C (think music and vibrations - music is the art of vibration). So now that the tuning has changed, so has the position of all the notes of the song. Some frequencies are now freshly available and others have dropped off of the range of available expression.

This applies to all matter and all existence of the universe and the base tuning of our "song" determines what is within our perception - whether as matter, or light, or even thought forms - everything.

This shift in our own tuning is our evolution, and if a jump occurs within the tuning - it is called an "ascension" -- ascension is vibrational - to "ascend" or "raise higher" the frequency of the tuning within either individual, or alternately (and more grand) the collective. This is the "movement" back towards Source from separation, and ultimately "real" evolution is merely this process underway by its natural design, however, humans, being bestowed with powers of creation, can guide this process within themselves consciously.

EXTRA ADDITION:
I don't know why so many people always gets their panties in a knot when these things are discussed or if the term "ascension" is used -- it is basic and natural principles of action, it is merely the labels that triggers emotional responses because we have been programmed to do so without examining the underlying principles that make it work.

My 2 cents

bearcow
16th October 2012, 17:00
Has Ascension replaced Enlightenment? ...... not by a long shot. You can't ascend unless you're enlightened.

this is true, but nobody here is even close to being enlightened.

in new age circles, ascension has become the equivalent of the Christian's rapture

There will be no mass ascension, it is against the law of nature.

Ahauchata
16th October 2012, 17:02
Hello, Pesonally on this end for me the two go hand and hand (ascension & enlightenment.) I am new here and glad to be here btw. On this end, I do agree with what I just read somewhere here that yes I am very into breaking the reincarnation cycle. I don't know how to explain it but there is just an inner knowing within me that this is indeed happening, in this 'my current lifetime.'
~
While this is not the only mission as to why I feel I am 'here' yet for me as I strive to merge with the Higher Self and strive to shed the aspects of the human ego, which is of course, an on going process. ;)
~
I feel that ascension on this end, personally speaking means to be able to 'leave the physical 3D and that includes the 'body' and move about the ethers at levels of awareness like none before. (This is the shorten version)

Tony
16th October 2012, 17:10
Enlightenment mean pure clarity.

I asked about Ascension and someone said something about rabbit holes....?

markpierre
16th October 2012, 20:44
I'm not sure of the practical value of defining either. No one is somewhere other than where they need and are designed to be. If those definitions and distinctions still have meaning,
they can only be in comparison, which defines dualism. It's all illusory, it's all a fraud. You don't 'change' your consciousness. But you can and do allow it to be changed.

Dualism is an experience, as is non-dualism. Yet 'non'-dualism implies its opposite. More meaningless distraction for self identity struggling to locate and define itself.
No one describing the non-dualistic state has a hope of being heard, and probably can't acknowledge a need to. But they can inspire the desire for 'other' experiences in other minds.
The real purpose and value is in the futility.
Do you see the irony in the perception of recognizing 'others'? And the need to address them?

The disciplines attached to the idea of enlightenment are unlearning what has been superimposed over reality. You don't create 'reality', you learn to stop miscreating.
We retain that ability because it's a fundamental attribute of mind, and misuse it.
There is a single universal reality that you do NOT create, because that's not your function. You are an active part of it. 'Personal reality' is the impulse to usurp God and causation.

A Master (he who has mastered his mind) has presumably stopped manifesting personal worlds and the experiences that expose illusion.
He's simply used them up to the degree that illusions no longer serve a purpose. He recognizes illusion as what it is.

It's a road, you're on it, and which ever direction you think you're traveling, or perceive others to be traveling, that road leads to reality
because it began and ends in 'what is'. We have just been believing and acting out 'what isn't' for what seems like a duration of time.

There is no hierarchy in attainment. No one is or ever has been further than a single thought away from reality. It's conceptual thought that causes the barrier.
It's more embarrassing than blissful to discover. That's not the end of experience and growth.

It can be after years or lifetimes of training or seemingly completely spontaneous. An untrained mind remains in illusion. But no one can know how much of the dross
has been burned in one's own self, or in another.
The hopeless drunk dying on the sidewalk is potentially far closer to God than the successful guru.
It's the release of all you think you know that reveals what is.
The drunk has far far less to relinquish. Another way to learn the uselessness and impotence of self identity?
All self identity is destined to death. You will be born anew. Then life begins.
You've chosen your path, not carelessly, and you're on it. Look at everyone around you and acknowledge the paths they've chosen. That will help you acknowledge your own.

That process may well include a world that reflects more of the attributes of Heaven. 'Heaven on Earth' or 'The Real World' are still only reflections,
but close enough to Reality that Reality becomes less frightful.
That's a promise we find repeated that clearly hasn't been manufactured by some evil controlling force.
'Enlightenment' and 'ascension' or 'resurrection' or 'transfiguration' are all concepts. Overused, misused and meaningless ideas from the viewpoint of not having experienced them.
They, as concepts imply something that 'isn't' because it isn't yet 'attained'. Throw them away.

Fear of the loss of the contentious freedom to assert 'I want it thus' has always been the problem. If you don't, or until you do realize and experience that your safety and identity is in your Source, or in acquiescing to what is, you'll continue to look for safety in the illusion of self identity, and the illusory world that maintains it.

It's an action of mind. How illusioning was learned is irrelevant. How it's unlearned and when, is just as irrelevant. In time or out of time. That it will be unlearned is inevitable. That the choice becomes choosing Reality over illusions is inevitable.
We just keep choosing every moment of every day, personally and individually because there is no 'other'.

WhiteFeather
16th October 2012, 23:36
Hey mate,

Pretty interesting question, indeed.

Well, in my opinion, ascension, as it is discussed nowadays, is enlightenment for lazy people.

You know, most teachings about enlightenment show that it requires a lot of effort, discipline and very serious sacrifices to achieve this specific state of being.

Most people who expect some sort of ascension, however, think that they can just continue living their selfish lives, doing all sorts of stupid and contradictory stuff, and it will happen automatically, with zero effort and discipline.

So yes, in a sense, the idea of ascension has replaced the idea of enlightenment, but only for myopic persons.

Cheers,

Raf.

If I May Raf........If Ascension is a form of expanded awareness and thereby used in expansive acts in energetic consciousness. Can we consider that the lazy ascensionalists.....if you will, could consciously be providing the universe a positive outcome. Remembering The words of Buddha...... What we think we become.

Jayke
16th October 2012, 23:59
Asking has ascension replaced Enlightenment is akin to asking whether the egg has replaced the chicken in my opinion.

Has the seed that develops into the enlightened state replaced the state itself. Surely if we allow that seed to sprout then the only natural outcome, over time, will be the development of a more enlightened society anyway so what's the rush, people awaken and develop at their own rate, at their own pace and through their own process.

To quote the buddha in a few verses from 'The Complete Enlightnemnt Sutra' (http://www.buddhism.org/board/read.cgi?board=Sutra&y_number=1#_Toc520692145) Which actually aligns itself quite nicely to MarkPierres thoughts above.


“Virtuous man, if, after awakening to pure Complete Enlightenment, bodhisattvas with pure enlightened minds realize the nature of mind and realize that the six sense faculties and sense objects are illusory projections, they will then generate illusion as a means to eliminate illusion. Causing transformations and manifestations among illusions, they will enlighten illusory sentient beings. By generating illusions, they will experience lightness and ease in great compassion. All bodhisattvas who practice in such a manner will advance gradually. That which contemplates illusion is different from illusion itself. Nevertheless, contemplating illusion is itself an illusion. When all illusions are permanently left behind, the wondrous cultivation completed by such bodhisattvas may be compared to the sprouting of seeds from soil. This expedient is called samapatti".


The other 2 expedient methods mentioned are:

Samatha - where the mind is empty and still i.e staring at a hand for one minute while allowing thoughts to rise and fall away without attachment, observing internal images and representations as though passing across the surface of a still and pristine lake. Vipassana meditation.


“Virtuous man, if, after awakening to pure Complete Enlightenment, bodhisattvas with pure enlightened minds engage in the cultivation of stillness, they will cleanse and settle all thoughts. Becoming aware of the agitation and restlessness of consciousness, they will cause their wisdom of stillness to manifest. Their bodies and minds, [which will be realized as adventitious] guests and dust[36] will be permanently extinguished.[37] Inwardly they will experience lightness and ease[38] in quiescence and stillness. Because of this quiescence and stillness, the minds of all Tathagatas in all ten directions will be revealed like reflections in a mirror. This expedient is calle samatha.

dhyana - Letting go of attachments to illusory thought projections while also letting go of any concepts of stillness. Letting go of any idea that one path is any more right for a person than another path.


Virtuous man, if, after awakening to pure Complete Enfightenment, bodhisattvas with pure, enlightened minds grasp on to neither illusory projections nor states of stillness, they will understand thoroughly that both body and mind are hindrances. [Awakening from] ignorance, their [minds] will be illuminated. Without depending on all sorts of hindrances, they will permanently transcend the realms of hindrance and nonhindrance and make full use of the world as well as the body and mind. They will manifest in the phenomenal world [without any obstructions], just as the sound of a musical instrument can travel beyond [the body of the instrument]. Vexations and nirvana will not hinder each other. Inwardly, they will experience lightness and ease in quiescent-extinction. They will accord with the realm of quiescent-extinction in wondrous enlightenment, which is beyond the reach of body and mind and the reach of self and others. All sentient beings and all life are only drifting thoughts. This expedient method is called dhyana.

All throughout this sutra the buddha refers to himself as the great 'tathagata' a sanskrit term meaning 'present to reality as it is', as oppose to the unenlightened who look at reality but then superimpose their own ideals, beliefs, limitations, expectations etc to the point that when they look at the sky they no longer see sky, they only see illusory lotus flowers dancing across their field of vision.

People on the path of ascension are simply following the path of samapatti while meditators cultivating stillness are on the path of samatha. And those who are just carefree and couldn't care less are on the dhyana path. Each expedient method brings us closer in it's own way to shedding those superimposed images so that we finally reach the state where we can look at the sky, experience the full experience of just being present in that moment and opening ourselves up to 10,000 miles in all directions of pure experiential divineness of being at one with that experience.

An understanding of these methods gave rise to one of the most fundamental principles in Zen, that of cultivating merit: where you get points for being positive and giving and you lose points for being negetive and selfish. And when you gain a high ratio of positive thoughts to negetive thoughts you're said to be sowing the seeds of positive karma which can transform your life and bestow you with magical gung-fu attainments. Very much like a video game, using illusion to transform illusion gaining mastery over illusion. Although cultivating merit is done in tandem with cultivating emptiness while letting go of attachments. Gotta get all three of them expedient methods working together to win the game of enlightenment.


“Virtuous man, these three Dharma methods are intimately in accordance with Complete Enlightenment. Tathagatas in all ten directions accomplish Buddhahood through these means. The myriad expedient methods used by bodhisattvas in all ten directions, whether similar or different, depend on these three activities. At the perfect actualization of these practices, one accomplishes Complete Enlightenment.

RMorgan
17th October 2012, 02:37
If I May Raf........If Ascension is a form of expanded awareness and thereby used in expansive acts in energetic consciousness. Can we consider that the lazy ascensionalists.....if you will, could consciously be providing the universe a positive outcome. Remembering The words of Buddha...... What we think we become.



Of course my friend! That´s perfectly possible!

I have no idea (who does?) if intention really affects the universe; If it does, you´re probably right.

Anyway, personally, I´m an adept of the good old work hard method. (But I´m pretty lazy sometimes as well)

Cheers,

Raf.

AwakeInADream
17th October 2012, 02:43
From the book's on Ascension I have read, I see it more as a much needed work on the personality, and a fairly useful imaginative exercise in self knowledge and awareness.

Enlightenment is still the true goal, or transcendence of this level of reality, or just awakening.

After more than 15 years of practice, I am still trying to achieve that one simple goal of true Meditation mentioned in The Bhagavad Gita.

I think it really is 'that simple' and 'that difficult' all at the same time.

Marin
17th October 2012, 07:22
I'm not sure of the practical value of defining either. No one is somewhere other than where they need and are designed to be. If those definitions and distinctions still have meaning,
they can only be in comparison, which defines dualism. It's all illusory, it's all a fraud. You don't 'change' your consciousness. But you can and do allow it to be changed.
.......
There is no hierarchy in attainment. No one is or ever has been further than a single thought away from reality. It's conceptual thought that causes the barrier.
It's more embarrassing than blissful to discover. That's not the end of experience and growth.
........
It can be after years or lifetimes of training or seemingly completely spontaneous. An untrained mind remains in illusion. But no one can know how much of the dross
has been burned in one's own self, or in another.
The hopeless drunk dying on the sidewalk is potentially far closer to God than the successful guru.
It's the release of all you think you know that reveals what is.

:)

.......