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Midnight
27th October 2012, 05:49
If you had the choice to return to Earth for yet another life, would you choose to return?

Most people that read here agree, including me, that things are messed up here, big time.

There are a lot of good people here but the power is in the hands of people that don't understand the meaning of compassion and justice.

There is a buddhist concept of the enlightened soul that has earned the right to never again return to this difficult world but he-she chooses to return again and again until all souls are enlightened.

From my low level of enlightenment, it's hard for me to imagine that I wouldn't choose to get the hell out of here if I obtained the flight ticket.

Would you return to this world, even if you were allowed to leave here forever? But honest, please.

The Arthen
27th October 2012, 05:57
I wouldn't assume that other existences/dimensions/worlds are any easier to live by. That's a salesman's job.

But indeed, this place is ****ing difficult.

TelosianEmbrace
27th October 2012, 06:32
If I could help one soul an infinitesimal way along the path towards truth and love, I would return. I am living this life, not for myself, but for others. Yet I have been through some of the most difficult of times and would not wish my lifetime upon my worst enemy (as a turn of phrase). Yet, do you not know? Only love is. All of this pain and suffering simply does not exist! It is difficult for me to admit that I would go through this immense hardship at the drop of a hat for the sake of others, yet there it is. Only when the last soul has returned Home will I be content to rest.

Why?

Because I love you.

ghostrider
27th October 2012, 06:58
I would come back, and hopefully come back as a Donald Trump and change the world , eliminate world hunger, no one homeless, flat taxes, the law applies to everyone and 2 yr term limits , no drilling in the ground for any minerals, oil , etc. This would be my condition, if I can change the world , then yes I would return.

markpierre
27th October 2012, 07:07
Guess I'd have to defer that choice to when it's a real choice.
I could pretend altruism now as an excuse. It'd be more like the addiction to suffering. I'll get off the wheel first thanks.
There may be more important things to do.

Funny though, when we're bound we forget how it feels to be free.
When we're free we forget how it feels to be bound.

Tarka the Duck
27th October 2012, 07:17
If it was a matter of choice, of course I'd come back. How could I not return if there was a possibility that I could help relieve the suffering of even just one person?

Kathie

Eram
27th October 2012, 08:05
From the perspective of the ego, the earth in this point in time may appear as a horrible place to be alive.
From the perspective of the soul, the earth in this point in time may be a perfect opportunity and one of the best chances for experience and growth.

The word goes that souls from all over the universe are just dying for a chance to incarnate here and now :)

Demeisen
27th October 2012, 08:14
I'm sorry if this is off topic, but after reading Midnight's original post there's something that confuses me. Actually this has been confusing me long time as I have seen lots of similar references.
Who is this authority, who decides if you are allowed or not allowed to leave planet earth? What right does this authority have deciding others life choices or their free will?
If there is such authority, it's a bit concerning to me. How far does these kind of oppressing power structures extend?

You are brave souls to come back for another round. I have always felt this must be my last time here. I'm not saying it is, but I want it to be. Perhaps my decision has been influenced by the everyday struggle.
I wish I could do more to help this planet and it's lifeforms. Perhaps if I learned how to do that, starting from myself, I could be able to make a choice to come back.

Violet
27th October 2012, 08:16
If you went to the Master of the Universe and He offered you the choice at this celestial setting, I think however much the answer from our earthly viewpoint is likely to be a no to return, with your seeing the end destination in the end, and being in the presence of the One you might actually say that earth was only a little thing after all and go back.

Eram
27th October 2012, 08:25
I'm sorry if this is off topic, but after reading Midnight's original post there's something that confuses me. Actually this has been confusing me long time as I have seen lots of similar references.
Who is this authority, who decides if you are allowed or not allowed to leave planet earth? What right does this authority have deciding others life choices or their free will?
If there is such authority, it's a bit concerning to me. How far does these kind of oppressing power structures extend?

You are brave souls to come back for another round. I have always felt this must be my last time here. I'm not saying it is, but I want it to be. Perhaps my decision has been influenced by the everyday struggle.
I wish I could do more to help this planet and it's lifeforms. Perhaps if I learned how to do that, starting from myself, I could be able to make a choice to come back.

sirdipswitch (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?10865-sirdipswitch),
who is an experienced astral traveller and communicates with his higher self on a daily bases, claims that one of the biggest secrets that the ptb have on us, is that every soul has the right demand to return to source after incarnation.
Most people though, are tickled to death when they find out that they made it to heaven and it doesn't occur to them to even investigate the opportunity of returning to source.

sirdipswitch has written a lengthy post about it somewhere but I wouldn't know where it can be found.
Will search for it though.

Tony
27th October 2012, 08:41
My feeling is that we may have an inner intention, but we need a capacity and understanding to engage in that intention.
When we die or rather when the body is finished with, karma takes over, and we are pushed around, because of our inner neurotic tendencies! So we have no say in the matter. However we must have done something good to get here in a human form!

If you find yourself praying everyday to be of benefit to all sentient beings, maybe, maybe you will come back to help others.

There those who are called Tulkus that do this by choice, and even have the skill to leave a letter, indicating where they will be reborn.

Personally, I was so fed up with people serving me and others up fluff, that I decided to do something about it.


We all have certain abilities and temperaments that may help others, we just have to recognise them, and use them. But first we have to take ourselves out of the picture, and that occurs when we know what we are.....or get an inkling.






Tony

TigaHawk
27th October 2012, 09:00
No thankyou!

The fact that life can exist in ways that i cannot even begin to imagine...... Are you crazy? Why would i want to come back here?!

ViralSpiral
27th October 2012, 09:12
Next round, a cat instead of a sheep :becky:

Demeisen
27th October 2012, 09:29
Pie'n'eal, thank you very much for you insights.

I have a strange feeling that the kind of 'karma wheel' or 'karma laws' that are associated with planet earth and the long incarnation cycles of it's inhabitants are very likely artificial creations. Not by 'god' or source, but something very less than that. Perhaps to keep us occupied in here. I can't explain why I feel this, but I my intuition says so.. You said it could be our inner tendencies. It could be so very much so. But I also wonder if this is just a machine where we are.

There are also such terms as 'karma of a nation' or 'karma of forefathers' which to me are absolutely absurd concepts. I think we are primarily responsible for our own actions and thoughts and their consequences. Not for errors that have been made in the past by someone else. I feel that holding such karma would not be constructive, but rather accepting self-guilt without basis.

Wakytweaky, thank you for the hint. That sounds very interesting concept and definitely holds a sense of free will. I will be looking for the post you referred.


Thanks

Fred Steeves
27th October 2012, 10:10
Until one masters Earth Game, I don't see any choice in the matter. We've chosen to play, so here we are. It's like jumping out of an airplane. Once we're out, it's better to be concerned with matters at hand, rather than if we can get back in.

Cheers,
Fred

Kiforall
27th October 2012, 10:14
I'm hoping it get's sorted this time round. If the sheeple don't listen after all this I think I'll go somewhere else and throw rocks at the Ignorant now and again.

Zoe x

mosquito
27th October 2012, 10:15
I'd like to come back either as a tree or a bonobo !

gooty64
27th October 2012, 11:08
The OP question is rather odd to me.
You are here now, OP.
What's up?
Do you want to be here now?
Is there any thing you came here to do?
Or is it too late?
What does it matter about a hypothetical next time?

PurpleLama
27th October 2012, 11:19
I've always understood that wanting to leave generally disqualifies one from being able to do so....

Sammy
27th October 2012, 11:27
I'm sorry if this is off topic, but after reading Midnight's original post there's something that confuses me. Actually this has been confusing me long time as I have seen lots of similar references.
Who is this authority, who decides if you are allowed or not allowed to leave planet earth? What right does this authority have deciding others life choices or their free will?
If there is such authority, it's a bit concerning to me. How far does these kind of oppressing power structures extend?

You are brave souls to come back for another round. I have always felt this must be my last time here. I'm not saying it is, but I want it to be. Perhaps my decision has been influenced by the everyday struggle.
I wish I could do more to help this planet and it's lifeforms. Perhaps if I learned how to do that, starting from myself, I could be able to make a choice to come back.

The answer is, it is you.

Sammy
27th October 2012, 11:42
For me this is an easy question. Of course, I am coming from the perspective of being "the one" who has found a way to experience myself. This realm I am experiencing now is likely one of many "I" have been able to fool myself into creating/entering. Now that I am a realized quantum being (my words), when I look into the eyes of my step-daughter, my wife, my sister and my three sons and into the eyes of the newest addition to our family, the lovely cat, Diamond, I know with zero doubt my answer is YES, I choose to return.

Don't miss the key word "choose."

Next question?

Have a Great Day, justoneman

Eram
27th October 2012, 11:53
Wakytweaky, thank you for the hint. That sounds very interesting concept and definitely holds a sense of free will. I will be looking for the post you referred.



Well, I have saved you from searching in the wrong direction :)
It seems that it was actually a post from anotherbob (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529045&viewfull=1#post529045) , who was quoting from a e-mail to him from sirdipswitch hehe.

It's an interesting and refreshing take on things to say the least.

here it is:


I have a good Friend who has done a lot of travelling in the higher frequencies, and gained an interesting perspective as a result. He recently shared these notes in regard to some of the matters being considered here and elsewhere on the Forum regarding Karma and such:


Is there an accounting for misdeeds, ie Karmic consequence?

The short answer would be no. It's not a matter of being held accountable, as much as remembering who we are, and getting our head screwed on straight before we are again able to wield our true power as spirits of immense power.

Part of that process, depends on the rules of the game, and that is, that no one can tell you who and what you are, until you yourself seek assistance. Forgetting who we are, and getting trapped into thinking that we are just mortal human beings, that must be "Good" in order to be "Saved", is all just part of the game that we must figure out and overcome. We don't need saving, we just need remembering.

It's really all just manmade lies designed to trap us in the Astral Realms when we die, so that we will have to re-incarnate back into the 3-D physical, where The Powers That Be (who hold dominion over this Earth realm) can continue to use us as their slave labor. Even when we return to the Astral Realms, if we don't know that we can simply ask to go home, we don't. And no one there can tell you. And if we don't learn that, here in the physical, we just continue to be trapped, and keep coming back for more fun and games, until we do learn to ask when we cross over into the Astral. And chances are pretty slim, that when some dies, that they will ask to go home. They will just be tickled to death that they made it to Heaven.

When we go home to the realm of Source we do not have that problem.


Regarding souls who end up in hellish realms after death:

I must address this sufficiently as I feel that I have not. They went there because of their own stinking thinking. They were not smart enough to get past the lies that they were raised with, and never figured out that it was all lies, because their parents didn't know, and their friends and co-workers, and Pastors, Preachers, and Priests, didn't know. Unless one steps outside the box, and learns to think for themself, they will not find their way to their Higher Self/Source. The rest is just man made B/S.


Why don't the evil elite go to hell? Simple... because they know they don't have to.

OK, this is where it gets "tricky". Religion was designed to trap us from going home, somewhere in the Astral Realms, or even hellish realms, and then to reincarnate back here, and to repeat this cycle over and over again, at least until we figure out the game. Those who cross into the Astral, believing that they might go to hell because they haven't been "Good", will indeed go to such "places", simply by the nature of their beliefs, which grant such realms a virtual reality. When one learns eventually how the game is played, they can go straight to Higher Self/Source, when they cross over into the Astral.

Remember, We are Immortal Spiritual Beings, and when we cross over, we are in complete control of what we do, and where we go. Hell is for people that have been "Hoodwinked" into winding up there. And the Evil Elite just keep reincarnating back into the Elite community, and teaching people that they must go to hell if they are not "good" and have not been "saved". And Source is just sitting there in utter amazement, that his children can be so gullible for so long.

I am in utter amazement that nobody seems to be taking the bait on NDE's. The absolutely wide and varied spectrum of people having NDE's is a heads up clue, that there may be much more to this life, than we are being taught. But... most just say... oh! that's interesting, and that's as far as they get. People are being shown that it is possible to go into the Astral Realms, and come back, without dying, and yet they just sit here, and do nothing about it. The stories of the NDE'rs is so varied, because they are only shown that which their belief system can cope with. And when NDE'rs die, they go to whatever they were shown, because that is now what they believe is waiting for them.


Good or bad, right or wrong, mean and evil or loving and compassionate:

If there is no right or wrong, and this is all just experience, then what's the point of it all? Source prefers us to be good, but He does not punish us if we are not. That is all man made B/S to control the sleeping. It is just experience in that regard. However, He wants us to experience both, so that we will understand the difference, because we had become rather complacent being nothing but good all the time, and it was not appreciated as well as when people have a choice, as to how they treat one another.

To experience unconditional love is so much better than trying to live with someone who is constantly contentious toward us. Treating others, as we would like to be treated, is far better than the opposite. It's really just that simple. There is no right or wrong way. We're here to learn to love unconditionally, no matter what someone does to us. And it is Religion that has held us back. That is Religion's sole purpose: to keep us fighting over who's right and who's wrong, and so they will not let us just be ourself, and love all, as we love ourself.

Tony
27th October 2012, 12:16
Wakytweaky, thank you for the hint. That sounds very interesting concept and definitely holds a sense of free will. I will be looking for the post you referred.



Well, I have saved you from searching in the wrong direction :)
It seems that it was actually a post from anotherbob (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529045&viewfull=1#post529045) , who was quoting from a e-mail to him from sirdipswitch hehe.

It's an interesting and refreshing take on things to say the least.

here it is:


I have a good Friend who has done a lot of travelling in the higher frequencies, and gained an interesting perspective as a result. He recently shared these notes in regard to some of the matters being considered here and elsewhere on the Forum regarding Karma and such:


Is there an accounting for misdeeds, ie Karmic consequence?

The short answer would be no. It's not a matter of being held accountable, as much as remembering who we are, and getting our head screwed on straight before we are again able to wield our true power as spirits of immense power.

Part of that process, depends on the rules of the game, and that is, that no one can tell you who and what you are, until you yourself seek assistance. Forgetting who we are, and getting trapped into thinking that we are just mortal human beings, that must be "Good" in order to be "Saved", is all just part of the game that we must figure out and overcome. We don't need saving, we just need remembering.

It's really all just manmade lies designed to trap us in the Astral Realms when we die, so that we will have to re-incarnate back into the 3-D physical, where The Powers That Be (who hold dominion over this Earth realm) can continue to use us as their slave labor. Even when we return to the Astral Realms, if we don't know that we can simply ask to go home, we don't. And no one there can tell you. And if we don't learn that, here in the physical, we just continue to be trapped, and keep coming back for more fun and games, until we do learn to ask when we cross over into the Astral. And chances are pretty slim, that when some dies, that they will ask to go home. They will just be tickled to death that they made it to Heaven.

When we go home to the realm of Source we do not have that problem.


Regarding souls who end up in hellish realms after death:

I must address this sufficiently as I feel that I have not. They went there because of their own stinking thinking. They were not smart enough to get past the lies that they were raised with, and never figured out that it was all lies, because their parents didn't know, and their friends and co-workers, and Pastors, Preachers, and Priests, didn't know. Unless one steps outside the box, and learns to think for themself, they will not find their way to their Higher Self/Source. The rest is just man made B/S.


Why don't the evil elite go to hell? Simple... because they know they don't have to.

OK, this is where it gets "tricky". Religion was designed to trap us from going home, somewhere in the Astral Realms, or even hellish realms, and then to reincarnate back here, and to repeat this cycle over and over again, at least until we figure out the game. Those who cross into the Astral, believing that they might go to hell because they haven't been "Good", will indeed go to such "places", simply by the nature of their beliefs, which grant such realms a virtual reality. When one learns eventually how the game is played, they can go straight to Higher Self/Source, when they cross over into the Astral.

Remember, We are Immortal Spiritual Beings, and when we cross over, we are in complete control of what we do, and where we go. Hell is for people that have been "Hoodwinked" into winding up there. And the Evil Elite just keep reincarnating back into the Elite community, and teaching people that they must go to hell if they are not "good" and have not been "saved". And Source is just sitting there in utter amazement, that his children can be so gullible for so long.

I am in utter amazement that nobody seems to be taking the bait on NDE's. The absolutely wide and varied spectrum of people having NDE's is a heads up clue, that there may be much more to this life, than we are being taught. But... most just say... oh! that's interesting, and that's as far as they get. People are being shown that it is possible to go into the Astral Realms, and come back, without dying, and yet they just sit here, and do nothing about it. The stories of the NDE'rs is so varied, because they are only shown that which their belief system can cope with. And when NDE'rs die, they go to whatever they were shown, because that is now what they believe is waiting for them.


Good or bad, right or wrong, mean and evil or loving and compassionate:

If there is no right or wrong, and this is all just experience, then what's the point of it all? Source prefers us to be good, but He does not punish us if we are not. That is all man made B/S to control the sleeping. It is just experience in that regard. However, He wants us to experience both, so that we will understand the difference, because we had become rather complacent being nothing but good all the time, and it was not appreciated as well as when people have a choice, as to how they treat one another.

To experience unconditional love is so much better than trying to live with someone who is constantly contentious toward us. Treating others, as we would like to be treated, is far better than the opposite. It's really just that simple. There is no right or wrong way. We're here to learn to love unconditionally, no matter what someone does to us. And it is Religion that has held us back. That is Religion's sole purpose: to keep us fighting over who's right and who's wrong, and so they will not let us just be ourself, and love all, as we love ourself.





What is being misunderstood here is that our absolute reality is stuck in a relative reality. Just saying "I am immortal" does not get us anywhere. Yes, we have that potential, but we are still stuck in a limited "I" world. If we were immortal we wouldn't be stuck here on this forum discussing philosophies.


There are a lot of new age teachings going around forums, telling people they do not have to do anything, as they are the higher self. I look at them, and think, "Is that it?" The hall mark of the new age is a lack of warmth. They may say "love" or "namaste" but this is merely a projection. One may say there is not be a right or wrong, but there is love and a lack of love.

It is all in the intention.



Tony

Eram
27th October 2012, 12:54
What is being misunderstood here is that our absolute reality is stuck in a relative reality. Just saying "I am immortal" does not get us anywhere. Yes, we have that potential, but we are still stuck in a limited "I" world. If we were immortal we wouldn't be stuck here on this forum discussing philosophies.


There are a lot of new age teachings going around forums, telling people they do not have to do anything, as they are the higher self. I look at them, and think, "Is that it?" The hall mark of the new age is a lack of warmth. They may say "love" or "namaste" but this is merely a projection. One may say there is not be a right or wrong, but there is love and a lack of love.

It is all in the intention.



Tony

Hi Tony,

Actually.... in the way that sirdipswitch uses this statement it does get him somewhere. When you are in the astral realms, you are likely to encounter lots of entities, either sprouted from your own unconscious mind or entities that live separated from you. This can be very terrifying and to know that we are 'immortal spiritual beings from the highest order' can be of help to stay in your power and help you to deal with them.
When you would read some posts of sirdipswitch, you would very quick come to the conclusion that he is as far from the new-age movement as possible :)

Apart from that, I agree with your observation about the new-age movement. I also think that it is unavoidable for people who set out to find a deeper sense of spirituality, to get trapped in these teachings now and then.

Maunagarjana
27th October 2012, 12:58
I don't know. There's part of me that regrets ever having entered this hot mess to begin with and would walk away like one being released at long last from an insane asylum where the doctors and nurses are crazier than the patients. There's another part of me that wants to stay and help those who have any interest in being anything but a mental patient in an insane asylum.

I wonder sometimes if I could be of more assistance from the outside, coming in only for surgical strikes to undermine those most keeping the madness alive. Maybe this place is just a puzzle that cannot be solved, and that is the answer. In that case, it would be best to walk away. It's hard to answer without knowing all the information about how this all came about and what the "rules of the game" are.

My answer to this question changes all the time, depending on how I'm feeling. But in the big picture, being an eternal divine being who has infinity to play and learn in, what does a few hundred thousand years of time really matter (time that doesn't even exist anyway) spent mucking about on Earth being the guy from the movie Memento? (If you haven't seen Memento, watch it. I feel it is a pretty good depiction of the predicament we are in as beings incarnating on Earth.)

So, the answer is yes. Of course, I would. Because this could be just the darkness before the dawn. Because something has got to give at some point. Right?

GoodETxSG
27th October 2012, 13:17
I have no way of knowing what I have worked out in my prior visits for sure, but to assume our next "life mission" will be any less challenging than the one here on this prison planet is a pretty large assumption IMHO.

A lot of the info that is channeled or received in various manners makes for good reading and may resonate with some of us for reasons we either "Feel" or "Think" we understand... but it is far from confirmed intel to plan any future life missions on.

I guess once the veil of life/death is lifted at the end of this mission we will be able to answer these questions with certainty.

Sammy
27th October 2012, 15:03
Wakytweaky, thank you for the hint. That sounds very interesting concept and definitely holds a sense of free will. I will be looking for the post you referred.



Well, I have saved you from searching in the wrong direction :)
It seems that it was actually a post from anotherbob (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47913-Is-it-possible-that-there-is-no-god-but-still-an-afterlife&p=529045&viewfull=1#post529045) , who was quoting from a e-mail to him from sirdipswitch hehe.

It's an interesting and refreshing take on things to say the least.

here it is:


I have a good Friend who has done a lot of travelling in the higher frequencies, and gained an interesting perspective as a result. He recently shared these notes in regard to some of the matters being considered here and elsewhere on the Forum regarding Karma and such:


Is there an accounting for misdeeds, ie Karmic consequence?

The short answer would be no. It's not a matter of being held accountable, as much as remembering who we are, and getting our head screwed on straight before we are again able to wield our true power as spirits of immense power.

Part of that process, depends on the rules of the game, and that is, that no one can tell you who and what you are, until you yourself seek assistance. Forgetting who we are, and getting trapped into thinking that we are just mortal human beings, that must be "Good" in order to be "Saved", is all just part of the game that we must figure out and overcome. We don't need saving, we just need remembering.

It's really all just manmade lies designed to trap us in the Astral Realms when we die, so that we will have to re-incarnate back into the 3-D physical, where The Powers That Be (who hold dominion over this Earth realm) can continue to use us as their slave labor. Even when we return to the Astral Realms, if we don't know that we can simply ask to go home, we don't. And no one there can tell you. And if we don't learn that, here in the physical, we just continue to be trapped, and keep coming back for more fun and games, until we do learn to ask when we cross over into the Astral. And chances are pretty slim, that when some dies, that they will ask to go home. They will just be tickled to death that they made it to Heaven.

When we go home to the realm of Source we do not have that problem.


Regarding souls who end up in hellish realms after death:

I must address this sufficiently as I feel that I have not. They went there because of their own stinking thinking. They were not smart enough to get past the lies that they were raised with, and never figured out that it was all lies, because their parents didn't know, and their friends and co-workers, and Pastors, Preachers, and Priests, didn't know. Unless one steps outside the box, and learns to think for themself, they will not find their way to their Higher Self/Source. The rest is just man made B/S.


Why don't the evil elite go to hell? Simple... because they know they don't have to.

OK, this is where it gets "tricky". Religion was designed to trap us from going home, somewhere in the Astral Realms, or even hellish realms, and then to reincarnate back here, and to repeat this cycle over and over again, at least until we figure out the game. Those who cross into the Astral, believing that they might go to hell because they haven't been "Good", will indeed go to such "places", simply by the nature of their beliefs, which grant such realms a virtual reality. When one learns eventually how the game is played, they can go straight to Higher Self/Source, when they cross over into the Astral.

Remember, We are Immortal Spiritual Beings, and when we cross over, we are in complete control of what we do, and where we go. Hell is for people that have been "Hoodwinked" into winding up there. And the Evil Elite just keep reincarnating back into the Elite community, and teaching people that they must go to hell if they are not "good" and have not been "saved". And Source is just sitting there in utter amazement, that his children can be so gullible for so long.

I am in utter amazement that nobody seems to be taking the bait on NDE's. The absolutely wide and varied spectrum of people having NDE's is a heads up clue, that there may be much more to this life, than we are being taught. But... most just say... oh! that's interesting, and that's as far as they get. People are being shown that it is possible to go into the Astral Realms, and come back, without dying, and yet they just sit here, and do nothing about it. The stories of the NDE'rs is so varied, because they are only shown that which their belief system can cope with. And when NDE'rs die, they go to whatever they were shown, because that is now what they believe is waiting for them.


Good or bad, right or wrong, mean and evil or loving and compassionate:

If there is no right or wrong, and this is all just experience, then what's the point of it all? Source prefers us to be good, but He does not punish us if we are not. That is all man made B/S to control the sleeping. It is just experience in that regard. However, He wants us to experience both, so that we will understand the difference, because we had become rather complacent being nothing but good all the time, and it was not appreciated as well as when people have a choice, as to how they treat one another.

To experience unconditional love is so much better than trying to live with someone who is constantly contentious toward us. Treating others, as we would like to be treated, is far better than the opposite. It's really just that simple. There is no right or wrong way. We're here to learn to love unconditionally, no matter what someone does to us. And it is Religion that has held us back. That is Religion's sole purpose: to keep us fighting over who's right and who's wrong, and so they will not let us just be ourself, and love all, as we love ourself.

Something strong within me says that everything written up here via anotherbob from an e-mail from sirdipswitch is at the top of the truth chart. Thanks, Wakytweaky... tiss the second time your timing with a post was so perfect for me personally - Love to All of You, Chester

Camilo
27th October 2012, 15:11
What I believe happens is that no one in their right "mind" would choose to return to this beautiful messed up planet, but after you are enlightened and ego/mind are our of the picture, your perception shifts 180º, and your love for the planet and humanity invites you to return and help the rest to get where you are, and you lovingly are not able to decline.

I really believe, many are here at this time for that very reason.

Sammy
27th October 2012, 15:14
What is being misunderstood here is that our absolute reality is stuck in a relative reality. Just saying "I am immortal" does not get us anywhere. Yes, we have that potential, but we are still stuck in a limited "I" world. If we were immortal we wouldn't be stuck here on this forum discussing philosophies.


There are a lot of new age teachings going around forums, telling people they do not have to do anything, as they are the higher self. I look at them, and think, "Is that it?" The hall mark of the new age is a lack of warmth. They may say "love" or "namaste" but this is merely a projection. One may say there is not be a right or wrong, but there is love and a lack of love.

It is all in the intention.



Tony

Its so freaking funny because as I read the previous post I thought to myself, I wonder what Tony might think of this... and wammo, there's Tony's post.

I understand Tony's point of view as it is quite logical. It may actually be true for most folks.

Now that I have achieved my realized state I see my being here was a choice. So I am not stuck. I chose to be here and I choose to be here now. I hope I am here for many tomorrows. In fact, as already stated, based on all I know right now, I am certain I would choose to return. I also know that I can change my mind anytime I want to. I can even destroy my body at any moment. I don't because I am overall enjoying my current bodily anchored adventure and like Kimberley, I am an eternal optimist. I feel the odds I will see the days those nasty PTBs see the light is a favorite because at the end of the day, I believe, all is Love. And I have found Love wins all bets. Who knows who may be right, I like the side I bet on.

Cheers and Enjoy the Day, Chester

Tony
27th October 2012, 16:11
My goodness there is so much talk about, but I'm just having a rest, between David Icke's lecture......later!;)


Tony

Snoweagle
27th October 2012, 16:36
I will charge down their legislation
I will charge down their regulation
I will charge down their militarisation
I will charge down their indoctrination
I will charge down their modification
I will charge down their barricades
I will charge towards the white light when my time is done

If return I must then i relish the revenge I reek

Lefty Dave
27th October 2012, 16:37
Would I want to return to humanity...to Earth...and do this all again, given the choice?
My answer is NO !! Been there...done that.
I'm guessing the CREATOR of ALL THAT IS...the SOURCE ...has innumerable places for souls to 'be' out there....some better...some not so good...but I feel that moving on would be the way to evolve in a spiritual way....as we seem to be DEvolving here...!
Good thread...thanks.

S-L
27th October 2012, 17:01
If you want to work, contribute, and fulfill your purpose, then this planet is the perfect place for you. As you say, much is needed. Can you imagine if it was otherwise? If things were ideallic here you would not have so many opportunities to give. If you'd rather go on vacation, then you're right: this planet may not be the right fit. It depends on what you want to do.

Of course it seems apparent that you are currently incarnated on this planet! Your soul is not stupid. It would not have come here if this was the wrong place for you. Perhaps it's time to start thinking about where you can apply yourself and contribute, depending on your unique nature, rather than condemning the world. The world does not need your condemnation. It needs your assistance.

white wizard
27th October 2012, 17:07
Well in my case I am no longer needed here so chances are I won't be coming back,

but if I had the choice I probably would come back. I stayed here through Atlantis

and through the fall of Rome all the way to this current lifetime. It is sad that I will

be leaving when things get good and I am hoping I get another shot to come here

in a couple hundred years of this time to experience it one last time. Sirius were I am

going back to is a nice place, but as far as I know right know all the people I have

been incarnating with through many lifetimes will not be going too which kinda

upsets me.

Sidney
27th October 2012, 17:17
I would come back, and hopefully come back as a Donald Trump and change the world , eliminate world hunger, no one homeless, flat taxes, the law applies to everyone and 2 yr term limits , no drilling in the ground for any minerals, oil , etc. This would be my condition, if I can change the world , then yes I would return.


But with a different hairdresser, right?? Just kidding, I couldn't resist.:ohwell:

To answer the question though, no, I would not choose to witness the pain and suffering that I have seen in the last 50 years. A total breakdown of human morals, and the disrespect for mother Gaia and the animal kingdom including ourself, the supposed superior mammals. I would love to spend the next mellinia seeing the universe, other worlds, meeting all my ancestors (real ones)

GloriousPoetry
27th October 2012, 17:39
I'm an old soul and this is my last trip here. I feel this world is a playground for the soul's evolution and I'm tired of the games.

skyflower
27th October 2012, 18:48
Many days I have asked myself, "what on earth was I thinking when I decided to come back here".
I don't want to come back here. No thank you.
I don't think I can help people who don't want help. People must help themselves. They must want to wake up, in order to really wake up.
This world doesn't need another savior. It needs to save itself.
Meanwhile, I am having as much fun as I can possibly have. Waking up to one's power is actually fun. Even if they are baby steps.

HURRITT ENYETO
27th October 2012, 19:20
Well I was dropped off on the wrong planet to start with.
:frog:



Hurritt

christian
27th October 2012, 19:48
Way too early for me to decide. Right now, I apparently chose to be here (although I was told by Carol Clarke, that I was chosen) and I appreciate being around, despite the fact that it's a mess. But I guess getting into some kind of mess is always just a question of being willing to step out of your comfort zone. And if you're never willing to step out of it, it will become smaller and the mess is coming to you eventually. Gotta deal with everything anyways eventually, I guess, so you might as well enjoy it.

angelahedgehog
27th October 2012, 20:11
Maybe after 500 years when the nostalgia kicks in :cool:

mescalitto
27th October 2012, 22:33
I think if i could live a life in a world ruled by corrupt, greedy, selfish, war mongering, power hungry, egotistical maniacs a second time i would rather be still born so i guess thats a no.

ghostrider
27th October 2012, 22:46
No thankyou!

The fact that life can exist in ways that i cannot even begin to imagine...... Are you crazy? Why would i want to come back here?!

If we can't solve earth's troubles, there's no use going elsewhere to try and help. I say get earth fixed , then on to help another planet. There are days I agree with you , why come back it's madness, and most don't want to change or take any responsibility for themselves or the environment.

Phoenix1304
28th October 2012, 00:12
Ah "what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause", Will Shakespeare, or was that the Earl of Oxford....

I was having this discussion over dinner strangely enough...and am aware of the latest zeitgeist of alternative thinking regarding the Archons tricking us into coming back so they can feed off our suffering. The Tibetans believe we must pass through the Bardos and devotion to a master may assist us to pass by the tempting array of alternate lives and move beyond the realms of suffering, to put it simply and paraphrase a buddhist that explained it to me once.

One thing is for sure, this is a plane of suffering, even if you are blessed with the sweetest of lives you will at the very least know the pain of losing one you love at some point, to decay and death, that's just the nature of this life. I'd rather not go through it again, but know I'll have to.

I definitely don't want to come back, the avatars that do, even when they allegedly don't have to, are bigger than I'll ever be, what? Come and be crucified so that the animals may get a glimmer of light, then spend the next thousand years watching them brutalise and burn each other over their misinterpretation of my teaching? No thanks, any other options for scoring brownie points with God?

The futility of contemplating the bigger picture with the philosophical mind came home to me whilst reading Autobiography of a Yogi, when Yogananda's master finally communicated with him after death and said he was on a planet where advanced souls go, no disease, death, suffering, but he was having to move on to something unknown, now this was a guy that basically walked on water and had already done his avatar stint! And people are out there preaching they know how it all works! Give me a break.

I don't actually believe the human mind is capable of grasping the vastness of it all, intellectually at least, but it's in our nature to try and even slaughter others for not going along with our theories, mostly men doing the slaughtering and preaching, I might add.

It is said that the beginning of wisdom is to realise the colossal extent of one's ignorance and I'll go along with that and the simple philosophy that if you can't be with ones you love, love the ones you're with and through that means you may at least experience snatched moments of pure heaven, in this shocking experience called life.

When I do make the transition however I'll be sure to ask to go home, just in case I picked up some useful tips by listening to the theories of the bemused.

Meanwhile, one of the best movies I ever saw on the afterlife was Albert Brooks' 'Defending Your Life' that had helpful observations delivered with a great helping of humour. Highly recommended.

Mandala
28th October 2012, 00:14
Right now, at this very moment I would say in my earthly body and soul, not being altruistic at all, I am done. You have given me enough this life for 50 lifetimes. Then if I'm on the other side, I'm sure I'd be the first one waving my hand going, " pick me". Life and higher selves are so damn strange.

Carmody
28th October 2012, 00:32
Ultimately.....eternity is really really boring.

Just my personal recollection. I mean, great, uplifting, huge mind and space, many things if not nearly all (seemingly) at your metaphysical fingertips. Creation is a given, manifest at will, and so on. All kinds of wickedly complex and cool things.

Challenging? No.

While here... well, if you know about the other at all, you want your ass out of this fire real real bad. On a near insane level....you want out.

Then I remember. Boring. No one shootin' at you, nothing. Feh!

TTPqPZzH-LA

RunningDeer
28th October 2012, 01:13
Hello Midnight.

Do you want to come back, and why?

Ask me again in 6 months. Why? because it's both yes and no right now. Leaning towards no. Once my job is done I don't know what the heck I'm going to do. I need to light more candles so I can see farther down the road. Loosing patience with patience. Ask me tomorrow and I may have a different answer. See what I mean? I'm all speedy-mind this evening.

Peace please,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

PS I mean no disrespect to You, or Others nor this thread.

Wind
28th October 2012, 04:07
Mother Earth and humanity cried out for help so here I am along with hundreds of millions souls from the stars and all over the universe. I sense that my purpose will be fullfilled soon. One last role to play here.

If I look things through my ego it does not understand that why I have had to go through all this horrible pain and suffering in this "hellhole". Through my earthly eyes I hardly can see the big picture. In the astral plane I once again will be able to see things from a clear perspective. I will take a vacation after this life, maybe a couple of eons? ;)

This small planet has so much beautiness in it. Gaia too has suffered alot, but she herself has had her own karma to pay. She won't have to suffer much longer. Forgiveness stops the wheel of karma. She along with humanity might have been lost, but not forgotten.

Maybe I've had some karma left? Maybe I just wanted to help others, because I'm on the path to serve others. In serving others I serve myself, because there is no "others". It is just an illusion. There is only One.

huyi82
28th October 2012, 14:21
If you had the choice to return to Earth for yet another life, would you choose to return?

not in a million trillion years, i will never come back here ever again, not if i can help it anyway.

Most people that read here agree, including me, that things are messed up here, big time.

you got that right.

There are a lot of good people here but the power is in the hands of people that don't understand the meaning of compassion and justice.

the whole earth is full of evil corrupt heartless people, no one cares in this world about each other, they have no empathy, no soul no love in their hearts, look at the things that happen in this world, how can we "learn" anything in a environment such a earth when everybody on earth is making it hard for anyone to learn anything? every day it's hard for me to live in a world like this, i know i don't belong here but i wonder how i have end up in a place like this? there has to be truth to the saying "prison planet" i think it's some form of punishment, i personally don't believe in the karma concept, that is just me anyway.

There is a buddhist concept of the enlightened soul that has earned the right to never again return to this difficult world but he-she chooses to return again and again until all souls are enlightened.

like i said before, it's hard to be "enlightened" in a environment such as earth, just like a child in school gets distracted when kids around her keep playing around while she is doing school work.

From my low level of enlightenment, it's hard for me to imagine that I wouldn't choose to get the hell out of here if I obtained the flight ticket.

i'm in the same boat, at any chance i would get i would be out here in a flash if i had the choice. :D

Would you return to this world, even if you were allowed to leave here forever? But honest, please.

see my previous reply.

message too small 10 characters, see quotes for reply.

Midnight
29th October 2012, 06:04
WhiteCrowBlackDeer asked me if I want to come back, and why, and since she is my only official friend, I must answer her.

My answer: I would be very happy to leave this place, with the big picture of people dying of hunger, war, various forms of exploitation, etc., and the truth that most of us will spend our final years experiencing aging, disease and death.

But there are people that I love that are probably, like me, locked into the system of reincarnation, and supposedly karma. I don't want to leave them behind, to struggle in this system.

My current concern is that the system of reincarnation may or may not be an ultimately difficult, but benevolent system. If it is a massive trap by those that pull the strings here, human and otherwise, I definitely don't want to leave behind my fellow humans trapped here. If the reincarnation system isn't a big trap, then I will happily exit, feeling confident that the loved ones I leave behind will join me eventually.

What a mystery!

RunningDeer
29th October 2012, 16:03
Hello Midnight. Thanks for your response. I just finished watching David Icke's production and see systems of reincarnation, and karma differently. It's not needed. We continue to awaking to our potential in this lifetime. Each has gifts to bring all into balance and harmony. So old systems fall, new ways flourish, healthy life extension is the way of life on Mother Earth. Which allows for greater understanding and experiences. And when the time comes each individual choose to leave for high learning else where in the vastness of All. No death. Just another destination of one's choosing.

Today I say:

There's no need to come back
whence one remembers who they really are.
Love.
I choose Love.

See you there...

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Bryce/70.jpg

Ron Mauer Sr
29th October 2012, 16:43
Would I come back? Maybe.

I accept full responsibility for coming here. Whatever the reasons were, I do not remember. One thing for sure, the perspective I had when the decision was made was much greater than my perspective now.

Maybe this incarnation was seen as a chance to grow, to finish some old business.

Maybe it was for the excitement, pushing the envelope, testing limits. I remember when the video game PacMan was introduced, and loved the excitement when the ghosts got so close. I do like adventure movies.

Perhaps it was to seek balance, alternately playing the roles of dark side and light side in different incarnations.

The answers may be in my dreams:


I'm back in the Marine Corp (service to others) again, feeling a little uneasy about re-enlistment (reincarnation), my uniform is a little out of order (lack of focus/discipline), but many of my friends are here, and it is not so bad.
I've climbed to the top of a building or tower, but with some fear that I may fall back to earth again.
I fly from Earth to the stars. Recognizing that the stars are in the shape of the eagles head, I fly through to the other side. I immediately recognize pure love and total freedom to go anywere I choose.

Selene
29th October 2012, 22:36
For me, it’s a no-brainer: I’m already making plans for my next incarnation here. Seriously. I’ve got a pretty fair idea of my probable or preferred “next assignment” already, depending of course on how well I can execute this present one.

I could, of course, be completely delusional about my present assignment or purpose, fabricating meaning out of random events. But I suspect not; this lifetime has incorporated a great many abilities accumulated over a very long tenure here and all these will be necessary – with improvements! – for the next round. There’s so much work to be done here.

So I must confess a deep and abiding love for this planet and all its inhabitants. I consider myself a full-fledged earthling and don’t miss life “elsewhere” when I’m here (I do miss some aspects of life in the eighteenth century and earlier periods, but hey….) Time spent “on the other side”, as Carmody has pointed out, is nice but not challenging in the same way as life here. I’m a fan. And there’s always next season.

My view, anyway.

Cheers,

Selene

P.S. Actually, I truly, madly, deeply identify with the character Griffin in the recent comedy "Men In Black 3" .... yes :p:

PSxuL_54sMk

Carmen
29th October 2012, 22:56
Well, as a mother and grandmother, I tell my kids "You are not going anywhere until this mess it cleaned up!!" I think Mother Nature might have the same answer to those who think they can just up and leave with the mess we have created. The same crappy, emotional, violent, dependant, tyrannical attitudes and mind sets would just foul up the next natural environment. And, there is no "them" it's all "us", either by our actions or our passivity.

Deega
29th October 2012, 23:55
Thanks Midnight for this challenging Tread, first up, my memory tricked me (or was I tricked by my creator?).

I don't know if I was consenting in coming in this life!, if so, then, I would say that it is one great experience, with very difficult experience and very beautiful one also!

And if the programming (younger age, influence by society, family, friends, school, culture, etc..) would be different, more loving, more understanding, it would be a lot easier, so if I have a ''say'', I would probably chose to come back in a few hundred years, hopefully, Earth will not be to contaminated!

All the best to everyone.

Midnight
30th October 2012, 05:44
Just a comment on two recent posts. Carmody said "Ultimately ...eternity is really really boring." From the perspective of 3D, this makes sense, but remove me from 3D and I have my doubts about this statement.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer said I "see systems of reincarnation, and karma differently. It's not needed." I totally agree with this statement, particularly when it comes to karma, since I doubt whether karma is a principle that is actually occurring.

But when it comes to reincarnation, I believe we are being processed through a system of reincarnation, whether we like it or not. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. This is a system that could be ultimately benevolent, or it could be a system that is structured to benefit other beings. I doubt whether our intentions have much of an effect on which version is true, or whether we can opt out.

apokalypse
30th October 2012, 13:59
i guess come here to learn? i believe earth is great place to learn and development...

RunningDeer
30th October 2012, 17:26
WhiteCrowBlackDeer said I "see systems of reincarnation, and karma differently. It's not needed." I totally agree with this statement, particularly when it comes to karma, since I doubt whether karma is a principle that is actually occurring.

But when it comes to reincarnation, I believe we are being processed through a system of reincarnation, whether we like it or not. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. This is a system that could be ultimately benevolent, or it could be a system that is structured to benefit other beings. I doubt whether our intentions have much of an effect on which version is true, or whether we can opt out.

In the end it’s all theory. If I spend time on analyzing concepts, then it takes me out of present experience and discoveries. These days, my focus is on the partnership of the greater with the lesser and it’s 3D experiences.

Peace, Midnight.
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

Arrowwind
30th October 2012, 18:14
For me, it’s a no-brainer: I’m already making plans for my next incarnation here. Seriously. I’ve got a pretty fair idea of my probable or preferred “next assignment” already, depending of course on how well I can execute this present one.


Few people think along these lines or make such plans.
We can plan for our future in this life and the next.
I have been working on my intent for the next life for a while now... as soon as I realized that it was possible.
I'm looking forward to it all.

Ron Mauer Sr
30th October 2012, 18:39
I keep reminding my Higher Self that I do not intend going anywhere without a clear conscious connection, sometimes shouting into the mirror.

Just like Karl Malden used to say in the old American Express commercials, Never Leave Home Without It.

bram
31st October 2012, 01:58
If you come back as Donald Trump, please get a new rug!

ceetee9
31st October 2012, 02:03
If I could help one soul an infinitesimal way along the path towards truth and love, I would return. I am living this life, not for myself, but for others. Yet I have been through some of the most difficult of times and would not wish my lifetime upon my worst enemy (as a turn of phrase). Yet, do you not know? Only love is. All of this pain and suffering simply does not exist! It is difficult for me to admit that I would go through this immense hardship at the drop of a hat for the sake of others, yet there it is. Only when the last soul has returned Home will I be content to rest.

Why?

Because I love you.Wow! You're far more enlightened than I am. More power to you my friend.

bram
31st October 2012, 02:09
If you had the choice to return to Earth for yet another life, would you choose to return?

Most people that read here agree, including me, that things are messed up here, big time.

There are a lot of good people here but the power is in the hands of people that don't understand the meaning of compassion and justice.

There is a buddhist concept of the enlightened soul that has earned the right to never again return to this difficult world but he-she chooses to return again and again until all souls are enlightened.

From my low level of enlightenment, it's hard for me to imagine that I wouldn't choose to get the hell out of here if I obtained the flight ticket.

Would you return to this world, even if you were allowed to leave here forever? But honest, please.

The buddhist line is that we continue to reincarnate until we have sucessfully eliminated all our karma, as it is only our karma that causes us to continue to be reborn. the boddhisatva however has already purified her karma, but seeks to continue to live amongst all this suffering and duality to assist all sentient and non-sentient beings to acheive enlightenment.
Notably, Di Zhang Wang (the earth-store boddhisatva) pledged not to acheive final enlightenment until hell was completely emptied (in other words, until all suffering was at an end). His famous line (and this is rather heavily paraphrased) was ''if I don't do it, who else will?"
I think its safe to assume that is you were a boddhisatva however, your attitude towards remaining here would be somewhat different.
Moral: as long as you don't wanna be here, you have to keep coming back. As soon as you are free from having to do it, you may choose to come back anyway, just for the hell of it!!

ceetee9
31st October 2012, 02:48
If you had the choice to return to Earth for yet another life, would you choose to return?

Most people that read here agree, including me, that things are messed up here, big time.

There are a lot of good people here but the power is in the hands of people that don't understand the meaning of compassion and justice.

There is a buddhist concept of the enlightened soul that has earned the right to never again return to this difficult world but he-she chooses to return again and again until all souls are enlightened.

From my low level of enlightenment, it's hard for me to imagine that I wouldn't choose to get the hell out of here if I obtained the flight ticket.

Would you return to this world, even if you were allowed to leave here forever? But honest, please.I doubt I would come back. This planet is beautiful and I've been blessed with a great many beautiful people in my life. And I suspect the vast majority of the people on this planet are wonderful as well, but I don't understand why they are content with the status quo. Why they refuse to look at anything that may upset their belief system or world view. Or, more importantly, why those who are in control do such horrific and selfish things--it can't simply be for money, power or control. They must actually enjoy hurting others.

I guess I'm just tired of beating my head against the wall. If there is an afterlife, and I have any choice in the matter, I would choose to incarnate on a world where there is no war, killing, or hatred. No governments, controllers, or classes. No need for money or possessions. Where no life forms are abused or mistreated in any way. Where all life derives its energy needs from the sun or zero-point field--no need for food or water to live. A planet where everyone's needs are met. Where everyone, who is capable, helps one another and contributes their talents for the betterment of all life and the planet. Where there is only one inviolate rule that all live by: do unto others as you would have them do onto you.

Do you suppose there is such a place in the multiverse? Or do you think Earth is a microcosm of what exists everywhere?

Maunagarjana
1st November 2012, 19:22
I saw this quote and it seemed relevant to this thread:


Treading along in this dreamlike, illusory realm,
Without looking for the traces I may have left;
A cuckoo's song beckons me to return home;
Hearing this, I tilt my head to see
Who has told me to turn back;
But do not ask me where I am going,
As I travel in this limitless world,
Where every step I take is my home.

- Eihei Dogen

nurgle
1st November 2012, 20:23
I would return...

I like a challenge :)

Carolin
1st November 2012, 20:56
:decision: Sign me up!!! I too love a challenge and this game called life! Merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream......

Demeisen
1st November 2012, 21:49
I doubt I would come back. This planet is beautiful and I've been blessed with a great many beautiful people in my life. And I suspect the vast majority of the people on this planet are wonderful as well, but I don't understand why they are content with the status quo. Why they refuse to look at anything that may upset their belief system or world view. Or, more importantly, why those who are in control do such horrific and selfish things--it can't simply be for money, power or control. They must actually enjoy hurting others.

I guess I'm just tired of beating my head against the wall. If there is an afterlife, and I have any choice in the matter, I would choose to incarnate on a world where there is no war, killing, or hatred. No governments, controllers, or classes. No need for money or possessions. Where no life forms are abused or mistreated in any way. Where all life derives its energy needs from the sun or zero-point field--no need for food or water to live. A planet where everyone's needs are met. Where everyone, who is capable, helps one another and contributes their talents for the betterment of all life and the planet. Where there is only one inviolate rule that all live by: do unto others as you would have them do onto you.

Do you suppose there is such a place in the multiverse? Or do you think Earth is a microcosm of what exists everywhere?

We should all visualize this to make earth become a place like this.