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View Full Version : OPT OUT! OPT OUT! (My recent experience, refusing airport scanner.)



Dennis Leahy
1st November 2012, 05:13
(I apologize for the all caps, screaming title. I will explain in a moment.)

I flew for the first time since 9/11 about a month ago. I had major reservations, no, not just 'reservations'... how can I word this more strongly, I refused to fly. I had no intention of flying and allowing the militarized TSA to force me or my family members to undergo a scanner. Some people worry about how revealing the images are. I could care less about my own modesty, but I was travelling with my 13-year old daughter, so that was a consideration for her. Mainly, I don't want low-IQ blueshirts forcing me and my family to undergo any sort of penetrating waves/x-rays, etc. that they have absolutely no idea what the long-term effects are.

My plan was to drive. Over 800 miles (each way.)

Last year, on a relatively short trip (a little over 100 miles), I fell asleep at the wheel. It was a close one, and I believe my Higher Self or Spirit Guide woke me at the last second, just before I would have hit the beginning of a guardrail for a bridge. I sorta made the "mistake" of telling my wife. (Not a mistake to be honest, but she is a worrier, and...)

Well, I had pretty much forgotten about the 'asleep at the wheel' incident when we decided to attend a wedding outside of Denver, Colorado. I told my wife we were driving. She reminded me about the 'asleep at the wheel' incident, and reminded me that I was alone when that happened. This trip would include her and our daughter. I said I would take frequent breaks, take an extra day to get there (and back) if necessary. She couldn't get the extra two days off work, she said.

I argued a bit (a couple of weeks), and finally had to conclude: we're not going - because we're not flying. The other side of the argument (my wife's viewpoint) was that unless we flew, she could not go. A work scheduling issue prevented her from taking the extra days off to drive.

This would almost undoubtedly be the final time my entire family, 9 siblings and my parents in their 90s, would be together on Earth. And that was the thought that finally convinced me to fly.

The flight to Denver was no big deal, leaving from dinky little Duluth, MN airport. Walk through a metal detector. Ho hum.

The flight home was different. I found myself at the Denver airport security area:

http://www.LeahyGuitars.com/Imagez/Two/DenverAirportSecurity1.jpg
This is an older picture, before Michael Chertoff was able to sell the multimillion dollar "millimeter wave (http://preventdisease.com/news/12/081412_TSAs-Millimeter-Wave-Scanners-Radiate-Cells-With-Untested-Technology.shtml)" scanners to the Denver airport.



http://www.LeahyGuitars.com/Imagez/Two/DenverAirportSecurity.jpg
This is what was missing from the previous photo. Those things that look like roundish glass phonebooths are the full-body millimeter-wave scanners.

Note the full contingent of blueshirts, through which passenger/terrorists must pass, emblazoned with multiple official-looking patches and badges and requisite scowls. It is a gauntlet, and these mercenaries have been trained that you and I are definitely terrorists, probably with boxcutters or incendiary boxer shorts.

I had been assured in advance that I could "opt out" of the scanners - this was especially important, to me, for my daughter. (My wife thinks I'm paranoid and that scanners are harmless.)

Imagine that first photo above, with at least 200 passengers spread across six rows, waiting to go through security. It's possible that 400 or 500 passengers actually went through this security portal in the 20 to 30 minutes I was in that large room.

When I got to the front of the line, with my daughter (my wife had zipped ahead, walked right into the scanner and smiled), I took off my shoes, put all my stuff in bins, and informed the blueshirt directing me and my daughter to go get scanned that we were opting out.

OPT OUT! OPT OUT! I HAVE ONE MALE AND ONE FEMALE OPT OUT!

...the TSA agent yelled, half into his attached microphone, and half to alert the other 400 or 500 passengers in the room that the TSA had found a pair of suspected terrorists!

My daughter turned beet red.

I fought back a few paragraphs of choice words. (That's why I'm writing from home, not jail.) Let them play their goddamn military games, they were not going to intimidate me into getting me and my daughter scanned!

And so, the two terror suspects were met by a large, burly, androids - one male and one female - each with scowl lines where the lack of humor and compassion had etched away their humanity. We were marched, shoeless, to another area. Like predator/prey, there was not one fraction of a second that the large blueshirt assigned to me ever blinked, looked away from me, or turned his body out of an attack position. I advised them that I was not leaving my daughter, I would be with her as they patted her down. The scowls intensified.

(I had prepared my daughter for this as best I could, and had told her, this was the only way I would agree to allow her to fly. If she decided not to allow a pat-down, I had told her at home, then the trip is off - and let her know that I was OK with her making that choice. She had assured me this was not a big deal - she could do it.)

Now, of course, she was mortified, intimidated, embarrassed, and really really angry at me. The look in her eyes burned me more deeply than the millimeter scanner would have. Because she was 13 years old (they asked) they said they would do a "modified" pat-down, and basically skipped her breasts and crotch. With the menacing, blueshirted monkey with the aggressive stance literally within arms reach, I'm not sure I could have gotten my hands on the large female blueshirt if she had crossed the line, but I can tell you I was full of adrenaline.

They completed the pat-downs on both of us, then used a machine to scan their gloves for (I assume) bomb-making stuff. After a long 15seconds, the machines lit a green signal, declaring that we were not currently carrying explosives. The blueshirted mercenaries said we were free to take our stuff from the bins, but we must sit on that bench right there to put on our shoes. (One last attempt to intimidate and let us know he was in command.) The look in his eyes was that we were still terrorist suspects, and he and a thousand security cameras would be watching us.

The most amazing thing to me? As I mentioned, we were in line with probably 200 people, another dozen or so were in the gauntlet, and by the time we had completed the ordeal, at least 200 more went through security. We were the only 'opt-outs.'

Dennis

Rocky_Shorz
1st November 2012, 05:21
did you have I'm an Avalonian stamped on your forehead?

sorry to hear of the experience, but being over 7 stories of a top secret underground city built for the elites and the Queen if she needs to run from a sinking Island...

maybe they were just confirming you weren't ETs escaping from 8 levels down...

the scanner checks for a second heartbeat... ;)

mosquito
1st November 2012, 05:44
Good for you, thanks for sharing. I hope your daughter's ok after the experience.


The only "opt-outs" - Let's not kid ourselves that we are in the majority, it seems to me that a far higher proportion of people, in your part of the world anyway, are only to happy to be subjected to fascism.

we-R-one
1st November 2012, 06:05
Denver has always been creepy to me too. I can really pick up on the negative energy that surrounds the vicinity. Last time I flew there was for a David Wilcock seminar back in 2011. The next time, this past Jan/February, I drove and didn't regret it for one second!

gripreaper
1st November 2012, 06:16
(The only "opt-outs"


Good for you, thanks for sharing. I hope your daughter's ok after the experience. - Let's not kid ourselves that we are in the majority, it seems to me that a far higher proportion of people, in your part of the world anyway, are only to happy to be subjected to fascism.

Yea, we sometimes think, while we are surrounded by other like minded and awake individuals here at Avalon, that the rest of humanity must be waking up too. But you two were the only opt outs?

Now, Im utterly gobsmacked.

Snookie
1st November 2012, 06:38
Fortunately for me most of the times I've flown since 9/11, the airports I've went through didn't have those gawd awful machines. However I did request a pat down when going through Palm Springs. Nobody made a big deal about it, and the lady who did it was very courteous. I think I was the only one who requested one as well.:confused:

I've noticed there is a big difference between one airport & the next, as far as the staff's attitude. I've also found it very frustrating that one airport allowed me to have little scissors in my purse, but on the trip home (going through Halifax) they took them away from me. These types of inconsistencies have occurred a lot. What a joke!

Eram
1st November 2012, 07:10
Hi Dennis,

Thank you for sharing this story, and for standing up to this
tyranny.

All kinds of emotions went through my mind while reading it and I couldn't help but laugh when you said:
I fought back a few paragraphs of choice words. (That's why I'm writing from home, not jail.)

I'm amazed with the photo's.
What an amount of machinery and people who operate the scanning lines.
In Europe things have not gotten this far yet.

What it especially highlighted for me is the constant struggle that people like you and me face in our efforts to live a life that is least effected with the insane mechanisms that society is forcing upon and at the same time have a balance where this struggle is not going consume our lives. When we have kids like you and I do, this becomes even more tricky because lots of ways of living that we see best for them also places them in situations where they can be harmed emotionally because they see most people live in a different way and they feel left out, weird or wronged.
Do we allow them to eat refined sugar in the amounts that their friends do? Of course not.
Do we force them to attend birthday parties and be the only one that doesn't eat birthday cake and fill themselves up with sweets and soda pop? This certainly may harm them more then it does them good in the end.

What I'm trying to say is that it is ever so difficult and tricky to find a course in life for our children where we give them a better chance of growing up without harmful influences that people nowadays are bombarded with, without harming them psychologically and emotionally in our efforts.

In general the course that my mate and me take is that our first priority is that our kids must feel connected with the people around them. We figure that if we where able to get this far with all the sugars, mercury fillings, vaccination, anti biotics etc, then they are able to sustain some of that too and still become aware and healthy people when they get older so we allow more then we would like them to endure in a perfect world and seek for ways to avoid them to endure things if possible, without harming them psychologically and emotionally. For a big part, it is all in the way we explain it to them and get them to play a part in the process themselves. But.... it is a ever so tricky game.


Tjeez Dennis.... how you described the attitude from the guards that where feeling you up. So much domination and suspicion. When I visited the USA some 10 years ago, this was the first thing that got my attention when passing the gates in the airport. security personnel in the USA is so different in their approach when you compare it to Europe and elsewhere.
It really shocked me then.

I must confess that I'm a bit jealous that you got to see Denver airport up close and personal though ;)

TargeT
1st November 2012, 08:19
(The only "opt-outs"


Good for you, thanks for sharing. I hope your daughter's ok after the experience. - Let's not kid ourselves that we are in the majority, it seems to me that a far higher proportion of people, in your part of the world anyway, are only to happy to be subjected to fascism.

Yea, we sometimes think, while we are surrounded by other like minded and awake individuals here at Avalon, that the rest of humanity must be waking up too. But you two were the only opt outs?

Now, Im utterly gobsmacked.

I've flown recently, I did not opt out ( I usually cut my flight times short.. so there's my self justification).

I did make some snarky comments about millimeter wave scans & naked images.. but that was about as far as I went.

I have to fly again in the next week or two, maybe I'll "man up" then; hell maybe I'll go in uniform and "opt out" and see how they handle that ("security" propaganda vrs "patriotism" propaganda)

I feel like me causing an issue for the TSA workers won't really do anything (another self justification?) so I generally don't bother.

meeradas
1st November 2012, 09:04
maybe I'll go in uniform and "opt out" and see how they handle that

Grand idea. Please do report.


We were the only opt-outs.

Btw, Dennis: Heroic. Feel like a pioneer. I've not had to 'opt' yet.

golden lady
1st November 2012, 09:39
Sorry to hear of your bad experience, I hope it has not traumatised your daughter so much that she wouldn't opt out again

I flew into LA in March with my husband, with much trepidation not wanting to go through the back scatter. Like you Dennis, my husband was more than happy to and didnt see what all the fuss was about. Unfortunatly, somehow I got caught up in the treadmill and before I knew it there seemed to be no turning back and I was scanned. We flew onto Hawaii a few days later and just encountered low level security.
On our return to LA however was my opportunity to stand up and be counted. Again like you Dennis, i was the only one. So in my very best British accent, I said to the guards that I'd rather not be scanned and yes they did shout out and at first I thought laud here we go but to my surprise they were very pleasant curtious and chatty. No problems and I will defiantly opt out every time. Though I do expect every experience will be different depending on what " jobs worth" are on the door so to speak!!

observer
1st November 2012, 09:58
For those members who find Dennis' story incredulous, take the time to watch this video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UenplqSBvv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UenplqSBvv4

This is what is coming....

Robert J. Niewiadomski
1st November 2012, 09:59
You are very brave Dennis... What would TSA did if an organized group of opt-outs arrived at the airport?A 10 or 20 people flying same direction? Would it be considered a plot to disrupt TSA operations?

Fred Steeves
1st November 2012, 10:38
Good story Dennis, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you did a great job manning up, I would like to have seen you with your game face on. My wife and I have opted out a couple of times with no major incident, but we've also discovered a little trick. A scan of the gauntlet will often reveal a difference in the lines. Most just corral you right to the machine, but often there will be one or two that offer the split path at the end, machine or patdown.

Here's a story that demonstrates how absurd the facade of heightened security really is. It wasn't TSA, but the same android mentality. We did a day trip Washington D.C. tourist thing a couple of years ago while vacationing in Virginia. Even though I knew I would have to scrub the slime off with a brillo pad later, I wanted to see all the sites for myself just one time. Hell, I even had the pleasure of getting kicked off the Federal Reserve's front lawn by their private security.(LOL)

Anyway, at the Smithsonian I believe it was, there was just a simple metal detector to go through, ONCE YOU'RE ALREADY IN!!! http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/images/smilies/newadditions/fie.gif We had driven to Virginia from Florida, so my wife hadn't thought twice about all the crap laying around the bottom of her purse. Beep...She puts an object in the tray. Beep...Digs for another possibility. Beep..."Ma'm, please step to the counter up front". Here we go.

Well, when the lady up front emptied her purse, she struck paydirt. A jeweler's screwdriver, and a mini pair of scissors! Can you say Al CIAda in white skin? "What are you doing with THIS! And what are you doing with THIS!" Everybody turns to see who's been busted. Two more personnel come trotting over, and are eyeballing these two deadly items like they are some kind of weird James Bond device. Finally, with the accusing stare that you Dennis now know so well, it was decided that she was not an imminent threat, but that she had a choice. Either leave, or dispose of said items in the bomb proof container, never to be seen again.

Let me tell you, in 14 years of marriage to this woman, I have rarely seen her this livid. She grabbed the screwdriver and scissors, shoved them in her purse, and we were out of there, me trying to keep up. As soon as we were out front she let loose: "Treat me like a f*****g goddamn terrorist!!! **** you!!! **** you!!!" "That was the most humiliating moment of my life...F*****S!!!" And then she cried.

So I sat with her while she smoked a couple of cigarettes to calm down and gather herself. I think that was likely the moment she began to take more seriously the things I'm always complainig about around the house like that. Once she was back to herself again, I said do you know what a joke that little tin pot security arrangement really is? They don't even check you until you're already inside, how idiotic is that? Really? I could just walk right into that building with a .45, shoot the half dozen or so "security" personnel gathered right up front, and have the immediate run of the place.

I wonder how many people notice these things? Probably not many. Hell, I should probably be a suspect for even thinking that way.:rolleyes:

araucaria
1st November 2012, 10:59
Remember, shampoo and suntan lotion form an explosive mixture - here's the proof: there have been no planes blowing up since they started confiscating them :)

And here's the proof of the scam: in the early days, I gather, they used to tip it all into the same container...

Flash
1st November 2012, 11:30
And you were an American, Dennis, they are easier on American. Imagine being a Canadian, worst, imagine your passport say you were born abroad.

I have been scolded too, told that America is so much better than Canada (at the American gates, but in Canada!!!), asked double bind questions (you can't answer yes or no and get psychologically imbalanced looking what to answer), and my daughter not wanting to go through the machine (they had just been installed and I had not prepared her) and being offered the pat down and then saying NONONONON, no pat down (she hates people touching her) almost crying, I did let her go through the machine.

At the time it was random, so they let me through. I thought the guy upstair was chosing only the better looking ones.

In Paris, back to Canada but through Philadelphia, I was screamed at "GIVE A PROOF OF HOTEL OR RESIDENCY, HURRY UP, GIVE A PROOF OF HOTEL OR RESIDENCY, HURRY HURRY HURRY" it definitely felt Nazi like and I wonder what about those that were with family in their home, they have no proof. We finally went through with light pat down because the line up was plugged and airplane almost ready to leave.

The only place that is not too rude in attitude (forget the search, even the attitude is extremely rude) is when driving and yet, last time, I had a very bad experience the border agent treating me as if I had 30 of IQ, being very insulting to the point that my daughter gave remarks (which I forbid her to do for the future, it really feels bad though).

Everytime, a mom with her teenager daughter, very nordic regular looking, I wonder what danger we are.

PHARAOH
1st November 2012, 11:48
I always opt out. I now have my wife and daughter doing the same. It's just that simple. All it takes is more people to catch on and away the machines go.

westhill
1st November 2012, 12:51
Brave is the first word that came to mind.
It's easy to think about standing up, but when the time comes to following through,
that takes guts! You and your daughter did us all a service. Please thank her for me.

Gekko
1st November 2012, 13:49
The last time I flew, I went through a 'new-and-improved' scanner. I had originally planned to opt-out but chickened out at the last moment. My chest hurt and I felt dizzy for about an hour afterwards. No more.

Maia Gabrial
1st November 2012, 14:32
Dennis,
You might have been the only opt-outs, but you're one of the few to avoid cancer alittle longer. Please don't be offended, but your wife's something else. Obviously, she doesn't take what you've told her seriously. IMO her attitude is the symptom of sheeple in general. TPTW count on this....
Thanks for sharing your experience.

christian
1st November 2012, 14:35
We were the only 'opt-outs.'

Many TV heads surely don't even know that they can opt-out. They just routinely roll over to authority figures. They would let their children be vaccinated when being told that this is the law when it isn't. They just don't care and they aren't really feeling the heat yet.

I would simply tell those TSA guys the truth. What they do is a disgrace and doesn't protect from terrorism, the patsies are being put on the planes by the government and the secret service. They are the real terrorists and they don't care for the TSA workers while their cancer rates are skyrocketing from standing next to those machines all day. People need to get a grip of reality and common sense, the fact that standing up for that is now considered somewhat 'heroic' just shows you how far we already got. You see, in America today they might put you on the no-fly-list or something like that for stating those truths. They want to take from you the freedom to say 2+2=4. What price are you willing to pay to preserve yourself that right?

Good news though, I got a friend who works for the TSA in Florida at a seaport, where there are no scanners, he says. One third of his co-workers are as moronic as it gets, he says, one thirds knows what's generally going on and another third is even more awake than him. He himself is simply desperate for a job.

Mozart
1st November 2012, 14:43
Wow, Dennis!

My blood just ****ing boils reading your awesome report.

I'd be in jail, instead of typing out a report if I had done what you did.

That took guts/courage and you have loads of it. Major props to you, bro!

Wow.

**** those TSA security bastards! **** them! I hate them more than anything on Earth ... and I've YET to deal with them and I have not flown since the beginning of 2001.

I will never, ever fly again until they get rid of the goddamn, stupid TSA ****.

But what's worse is the timidity of the American people. What a gutless, wimpy and compliant bunch of stupid ****s they are!

I'm ashamed to call myself an American, totally ashamed. And I'm thoroughly, 100% ****ing disgusted with America and Americans. Stupid, stupid ... EFFING STUPID PEOPLE! ****, man! WTF? Geez.

Major props to you, Dennis.

~Mozart

Mozart
1st November 2012, 14:48
And if I was there, I would not simply tell them in a quiet, conversational tone "I want to opt out."

I'd fvcking yell it out:

"I'M OPTING OUT, OPTING OUT -- A PATRIOTIC, FOUNDING-FATHER-SUPPORTING MALE OPTING OUT!"

Loud! Effing loud!

But I'd do that ONLY if a goddamn Attorney was traveling with me, though!

*grin*

But, seriously, if I was alone, they wisk me away into a room the eff the **** out of me, so I would not do the shouting out without an Atty present with me for my own protection.

Silly daydream and comments, I know ... good thing that I don't have to fly.

Dennis Leahy
1st November 2012, 15:19
Buried in the text above is a link to the best article I could find on millimeter wave scanners' effect on the human body. Here's that link again: TSA's Millimeter Wave Scanners Radiate Cells With Untested and Dangerous Technology (http://preventdisease.com/news/12/081412_TSAs-Millimeter-Wave-Scanners-Radiate-Cells-With-Untested-Technology.shtml)

It was actually very difficult to find an article that dealt with this side of the argument - I was probably 8 or 10 search results pages in (using IXQuick instead of Google) before I found an article! However, there were plenty of pages reassuring me that getting zapped is no big deal. There was one article, saying that millimeter waves pose no health threat, that had been repeated on a dozen websites (I could tell, reading the identical text blurb that comes up with the URLs found in the search.) That means, only someone diligent enough to keep looking will even find an article that unveils the dark side of millimeter-wave scans on cells, and even worse, it means any sort of normal search will yield "Trust your government - everything is OK." kind of propaganda. Goebbels would be so proud of his mentoring!

Dennis

Paul
1st November 2012, 15:37
They completed the pat-downs on both of us, then used a machine to scan their gloves for (I assume) bomb-making stuff. After a long 15 seconds, the machines lit a green signal, declaring that we were not currently carrying explosives.
Duck! -- Incoming tin foil hat conspiracy theory:




Perhaps the machine was reading key details of your DNA from trace bits of your skin left on their gloves? Perhaps the full-body millimeter-wave scanners are their preferred way to read this, but they can do it off the gropers gloves as an alternative? Perhaps the reason that the TSA is moving some of these scanners to smaller airports (http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/19/182231/tsa-moving-x-ray-body-scanners-to-smaller-airports) is to get better coverage of this data collection, from flyers who don't happen to frequent the larger airports.

Fred Steeves
1st November 2012, 16:01
I've learned some invaluable lessons in dealing with unreasonable authority in the last couple of years or so, by going about it in both the right way, and the wrong way. You know what happened just about a year ago, when I dealt with it in the wrong way by shooting my big mouth off too much, even though without a doubt I held the moral high ground? I found myself suddenly very tightly handcuffed, escorted to a paddywagon, and enjoyed a night in the county jail, as my wife exhausted herself all night trying to figure out how to get me out of there.

You know what? Jail ain't fun. It's one thing to be here on the outside, knowing that our rights are ALMOST gone. When you find yourself shuffled around the android bureaucracy of the inside, you are hit with the realization that you now have NO rights. With just a little bit of imagination, it's easy to see how someone, especially after the NDAA, can simply be disappeared.

Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not fearful of paying even the ultimate penalty, but it had better be for the right reason, done the right way, and at the right time. Otherwise, I've just screwed myself, and that's it. Game over dumbass.(LOL) Every time I have looked unreasonable authority directly in the eye, calmly said "no", and stood my ground, things have gone o.k.. Most of them are too rigidly indoctrinated to know how to deal with that. What they savor however, is the prospect of a heated exchange, and they will "merrily" begin that exchange. This is the big excuse to exercise the bully power they so love.

Bottom line, don't be afraid of saying a very calm, but direct "no" to the scanner. Or being unduly groped for that matter. Listen, I'm not a tough guy, or an overly brave man, but I've looked a TSA guy directly in the eye at the foot of the scanner, and said calmly: "I'm not going through that". They are people too, and can quickly sense your "presence", whether you are just being surly and full of bluster, or are most serious, and prepared to stand. The answer was: "Right over here for a quick security patdown then sir". And it WAS just a basic patdown.

This is precisely what David Icke is emphasising, when he says although it's vital to know the big multi-dimensional picture, it's also vital to be up on what is directly affecting us right here in this 3-D reality. As always, proper balance is key.

Cheers,
Fred

4evrneo
1st November 2012, 16:02
I flew to Denver for the weekend to see my dad about a year and half ago, back then I didnt know the dangers of the scanners so I went right thru the machine. Boy times have drastically changed since waking up a year ago. Im pretty rebellious at times so I know next time I will be opting out.

Thanks for the story,
I hope more will take a stand !

hardrock
1st November 2012, 16:12
I fly a good bit and go through those xray scanners every other week! It's a wonder I have any sperm left with only one head.

For the people from different countries : What is the flying situation in your areas? Do you have massive security and checkpoints? Do they xray your bags, etc etc.?

GlassSteagallfan
1st November 2012, 16:30
Thanks for the post Dennis. Hope things are well with your daughter.


Every time I have looked unreasonable authority directly in the eye, calmly said "no", and stood my ground, things have gone o.k.

Absolutely Fred! About 20-25 years ago, a lawyer I hired gave me advice which stuck with me all this time - "Music soothes the beast"

WhiteFeather
1st November 2012, 16:33
Kudos Dennis and Thanks for sharing this with us, I applaud thee.... WE need more people like you to make an imprint. I have often pondered a thought that these machines they make the passengers go through like cattle to a slaughter by The Toilet Safety Administration, could have an effect on our bodies. Most like women could get effected by a Mammogram.... I'm not sure if i would fly anymore, as i would get arrested in this scenario and wouldn't be so lucky as you.

I had to include this video, get the kleenex ready....funny as hell.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu6KXj-vtl8&feature=related

Lazlo
1st November 2012, 18:22
I fly a lot. Have been doing so for several years now. So far in 2012, I have been through airport security at least 60 times, and have come to some conclusions.

There are definitely differences between airports. When flying between Canada and the US, aiport A security and customs is so thorough as to be comical (scan your boarding pass three times before you even take your shoes off, and each point is withing 20 feet of the other), airport B barely even slows down to take a look at you. Time of day makes a difference. Day of the week makes a difference. Region of the country, size of airport, what terminal within that airport, how many infrequent fliers can't remember not to bring a 168 oz tub of shampoo with them and then give the TSA agent a hard time about it, yada, yada, yada

TSA exists primarily to give political cover in case something bad does happen, and so that the government can show us all how hard they are working to keep us safe. But yes, there are plenty of bad people out there that would dance in the streets if an airliner went down with women and children aboard. How many Lockerbie family members asked themselves and their government why it was so easy to put a bomb on the plane. (I'm leaving 9-11 out of this)

That being said, I do think the TSA is looking at yesterday's threat and not tomorrow's. As Fred said, it wouldn't really be that hard to make a mess of things if you were so dispositioned. Thank the heavens that your average nutjob with a bomb just isn't really that bright.

Most TSA agents are work a day stiffs making barely more more money than your average McDonalds clerk, but they do get benefits.

They don't like doing patdowns any more than you like it as a passenger. Everyone seems to hate them just because of the uniform, but they also like feeding their families, so hey, it's a job. Try being polite to them, they are humans too and respond really well to a smile.

I'm not fond of scanners either, but the truth is that you probably really do get more radiation from sitting on the plane than you do from the scanner. I opt out every once in a while just for sh*ts and giggles and to remind other people that they do have a choice if it is really that important to them (nice work Dennis!).

And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it. I can talk about principles and freedom and the evils of the TSA, but you would change your tune quickly if it was your loved one's who died in a fiery crater leaving nothing to bury.

DeDukshyn
1st November 2012, 18:49
I've never flown outside Canada since 9/11 so I have had no such experiences .. but I am afraid ... afraid I would end up in jail because I would not be able to hold my words back ... lol .Not sure if I could go through that without creating a scene of some sort ... ;)

Glad to hear you got your trip in Dennis.

Paul
1st November 2012, 19:12
TSA exists primarily to give political cover in case something bad does happen
I suspect that TSA has more purpose than just political cover.

They seem to be part of some other operations, including getting the people accustomed to a higher level of tyranny, and collecting bio-data, correlated with other personal data, on as many people as possible.

Paul
1st November 2012, 19:20
And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is not about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.

Flash
1st November 2012, 19:24
I usuallly fly from airport A (stupidly complex passage and examinations) when going in the US. And yes, it has gotten ridicusly complicated to a point where I swear to myself that I would avoid US airlines altogether mostly when going to Europe or down south (Mexico and south).

Lazlo
1st November 2012, 20:03
And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.

Paul, All valid points (channeling Obi Wan here) from a certain point of view....

I said nothing about aircraft reliability. I am talking about the intent of evil men.

I believe that it can best be attributed to a difference in our assumptions (assumptions are dangerous things, but we all make them)

Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.

I see the world as a place with many competing interests. While there are certainly those who take advantage of events to pursue their own agenda, I simply don't believe that all of the events of the last century which led us to where we are today were part of a master plan.

Cultural conflict is as old as culture, and the forces of history push us all along. Yes, there are people who are using the TSA for their own ends, but the TSA was created as a response to a tragic event (genuine or engineered) and has morphed into a monster that has taken on a life of it's own.

I simply don't see the TSA as a step to an Orwellian distopia in which we are all destined to be in chains. The "Dancing With The Stars", NASCAR watching sheeple got what they asked for. If they would get off of the couch and demand change, change would happen. It's not the TSA, it's everything.

Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
Burke, Edmund

DeDukshyn
1st November 2012, 20:32
And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.

I agree, lazlo's "if it prevents just one ... it was worth it" is not an accurate assessment of the situation -- first let's look how big a problem it actually is ... In some well put together study I read a few years ago (sorry no resources :(), it was deemed that it would take about 10-12 iterations of 9/11 type events happening per year (by deaths it caused), to consider flying the equal to driving in terms of risk of death. About one 9/11 event per every single month.

Why aren't they stealing our liberties to make driving safer? Why, when they claim they want to prevent deaths, don't they actually try to prevent where the deaths are being caused from. The is huge disproportion in level of logic applied to that reasoning ... its all about control with fear .. it is obvious.

My 2 cents ;)

Paul
1st November 2012, 20:48
Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.

...
Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.
Ah - yes - it is not their fault at all. It is our fault for giving power away, and my fault for holding unreasonable beliefs :).

You misrepresent my beliefs, you present a false dichotomy (all their fault or all ours), and the bastards don't deserve a free pass.

Snookie
1st November 2012, 20:50
They completed the pat-downs on both of us, then used a machine to scan their gloves for (I assume) bomb-making stuff. After a long 15 seconds, the machines lit a green signal, declaring that we were not currently carrying explosives.
Duck! -- Incoming tin foil hat conspiracy theory:




Perhaps the machine was reading key details of your DNA from trace bits of your skin left on their gloves? Perhaps the full-body millimeter-wave scanners are their preferred way to read this, but they can do it off the gropers gloves as an alternative? Perhaps the reason that the TSA is moving some of these scanners to smaller airports (http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/19/182231/tsa-moving-x-ray-body-scanners-to-smaller-airports) is to get better coverage of this data collection, from flyers who don't happen to frequent the larger airports.

When I had my pat down (by the way, that's how I said it - I'd like a pat down - maybe that was why she was so polite - she was afraid I was REALLY enjoying it ;-p ) I don't recall her testing her gloves.

Hummm....I might be onto something there - just tell them "I would really LIKE a pat down" with a big 'ol $hit eating grin on your face, and make them more uncofortable doing it, than you do experiencing it. If you say you want to Opt Out, that just reinforces that wording. No one mentioned Opt Out when I said I wanted a pat down. Reverse psychology ;)

Dennis Leahy
1st November 2012, 20:50
If there are real terrorists, and if they deliberately target civilians, then every place that crowds gather are unsafe. If you insist on making all of those places safe, then every church, PTA meeting, high school volleyball game, mall, museum, bus, train, restaurant, polling place, bar, school, concert, company picnic, family reunion, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. needs TSA agents, full body scanners, metal detectors, and bomb sniffing equipment. If the citizens of the USA somehow rise up and take their rightful place as a government of citizens representing citizens (see "The Reset Button"), AND those citizens vote to make all gatherings subject to this type of invasive scrutiny, no privacy, and everyone suspicious of everyone, I will find another country to call home. That scenario describes tyranny to me - tyranny disguised as safety.

I don't even have to go this far, but the US government will: scanning for pre-crime is next. The NDAA already allows it.

I suspect there are some real terrorists that are not affiliated with any governments and/or black-ops wing of governments and/or nefarious corporate entities and/or "Cabal"/Illuminati. But I suspect that at least 98% of terror is performed by those organizations. The percentage may even be closer to 99.9%. Therefore, the war on terror is phony, and (especially if somehow the black-ops are no longer ordered to commit terrorist acts) we can all drop the pretence that anyone could ever make the world a safe place and drop back to - at the very minimum - pre 9/11 levels of security.

Dennis

Kiforall
1st November 2012, 20:54
I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

Zoe x

ViralSpiral
1st November 2012, 20:56
I fly a good bit and go through those xray scanners every other week! It's a wonder I have any sperm left with only one head.

For the people from different countries : What is the flying situation in your areas? Do you have massive security and checkpoints? Do they xray your bags, etc etc.?

I live in Munich and fly a lot regionally as well as a fair amount of international long-haul flights too. Although strict about liquids and the obvious no-no's, they are pretty relaxed. Yes they do scan the bags which I think is by now, a world norm. Even in Botswana :)

I did once have a nail file confiscated (small! could probably have inflicted a deathly blow to a pilot rat :becky:). Only boots need to be removed i.e. not all shoes. If the alarm beeps, the "pat down" is nothing more than a gentle (normal) frisk down.

And no scan booths

I would probably also have shouted back: I OPTED OUT! I OPTED OUT!

http://i42.tinypic.com/2epj58p.gif

blake
1st November 2012, 21:05
From my perspective, Mr. Leahy’s experience at the Denver Airport, as he described it, is a good example of how controlled and trapped all Americans are in their basic living style. Many Americans may want to say no to an unconstitutional, invasive system, and yet they also want to live their lives. The government no longer secures our freedom, it only secures their control over each individual: child or adult. If an American decides to avoid the system, out of moral decency, while supporting the fundamental principles on which America was founded , the current systems makes it nearly impossible for them to live their lives. So the individual, because she/he wants to live their life, will always concede to the system, making it so much easier to terrorize the average American into giving up more and more of their rights, with each passing season, and that includes their parental rights.

Most Americans choose to be short sighted about choosing to go along with the system, in order to live their life. But seldom will an individual honesty look at the incrementalism that is building with each concession they make to the system in order for them to live their lives. Since all Americans choose to live their lives, by interacting with the system, despite the government’s intrusive ways, the government is merely conditioning the populace to accept, without question, whatever an individual “ in authority” will require of you. I wonder what the government will require next year of an individual to travel to their family’s wedding, funeral, graduation, or crisis?

For Mr. Leahy, the price paid to attend his family wedding/reunion was to deal with the TSA, while gambling that it would go well without any complications. He knew he had to go along with whatever was asked of him, and that he had to keep his temper and thoughts to himself, no matter what they did, if he wanted to return home directly and not via a jail cell and all that entails. So, as Mr. Steeves so eloquently expressed in his posts, keeping one’s thoughts and temper to one’s self is necessary in order not to be arrested. When you have children traveling with you, the anti goes up with the gambling, as you give up all say on how the system treats your child. And each child has their own unique psychological make up, history, and experience or lack or experience. If the parent doesn’t like how their child is being treated, or if their child is in distress, what can the parent do about it without being arrested? If you object in any way, or can’t give a controlled, calm “ no”, which doesn’t always work, , there is a good chance you will be separated from your child, and be arrested. And then life even gets more complicated. Expressing emotions is grounds for arrest.

Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested. So he took a gamble, as everyone does when they interact with the system so they can live their lives. Yet everyday the very vast majority of Americans, including those who claim to be awake and aware, risk interacting with the systems. And it is a risk on so many levels, especially when good people, just trying to live their lives, protect their family and keep their dignity, never know the psychology and personality behind the badge that give a stranger the government force to pat you, your child, or elderly grandparents down. You all have read the many TSA horror stories, especially those involving the children, the sick and the elderly. And yet in order for Americans to live their lives, in order to go to their weddings, their graduations, or any simple act in the joy, or necessity of living, most people will take the gamble of losing more than just a stolen good from their belongings, and assume that it will be all right if they just don’t object to the wrong that they know is going on in front of their very eyes. Rationalization, looking the other way, self justification, "the think tanks" understand human nature in every detail very well . They know how much they can force the average "aware American”, because even the “aware American" has to live their life. And they all are willing to pay the price of being conditioned to accept what is inherently wrong. The masses won’t object to these wrong doings because it will interfere in their lives, and even if they are aware, they can’t organize themselves into any type of force of goodness against this rape against privacy, dignity, and inalienable rights, because the masses won’t organize themselves. They look and hope that magically something will happen to correct a very bad situation, without their lives being disrupted.


Mr. Leahy, like many Americans, looked at his options; he choose to interact with the system. I don’t think anyone can fault his forced choice to fly. The fact that his spouse was also controlled by the system, her job, seemed to be the reinforcing factor. But what seems to be lost in the responding posts is that, from my perspective, he did not keep his dignity or that of his daughter’s when he consented to the pat downs. He was given a choice between two evils, as the system usually offers to its victims. He could go through the scanner, or he could have his personal dignity of body space invaded, hoping it would not be too invasive or traumatizing for his young daughter. I view the “pat down” at the very least, as a violation of my fourth amendment rights. From a psychological perspective, the “pat downs” runs the course across many lines but especially conditions people, especially children, that their private space and body are not under their control, with all the implications and complications of that. The public, especially children, are being heavily conditioned to bend over whenever the government says to without complaint, or emotional tears or one very well may be arrested. How many readers have noticed how parents are having less and less say over their children? Interacting with the systems is just one of the ways the government flicks their power over parental protectiveness of their children. Exactly how much parental control does a parent have during the pat down of a child, no matter what their age?

My point is that the” pat down” is just as insidious as the scanner. One is physical damage; the other is psychological damage at the very least. Exactly who owns your body? Obviously the United States government is conditioning your children that they do not own themselves, the government does.

From what I have observed, Americans want to pretend they are in control of their lives and that they have options. But the government knows it can buy all Americans ethics and behavior by simply making it nearly impossible to live their private lives without giving up their time, their privacy, and dignity.

I am happy Mr. Leahy got to go to his family reunion, and returned safely home without incidence. The next time he may or may not be so lucky. I do hope that he or anyone else doesn’t’ live with the illusion there was any victory for Mr. Leahy, or his daughter in preserving their basic rights, freedom, or dignity in choosing what they obviously thought was the lesser of two evils. He, like everyone else, was just part of the crowd being shepparded, by the border collies TSA agents into the corral where the government is conditioning all Americans to trade their freedom, rights, privacy and dignity in order that they can, for now, still lead their lives. Most unfortunately these same Americans are rationalizing that they are awake and aware even though their present actions are simply conditioning them, incrementally, for even more enslavement. Reactions to threads like these demonstrate clearly that the time will come when even self professed awake and aware Americans will wear the implanted chip, because without it, these “ awake and aware” Americans will not be able to go to family reunions, pay their taxes, or get something that they need that they can’t grow, barter, make or steal. The time has come for Americans to choose to be free, and to own themselves, or be a slave and have the government own them. The more you can free yourself of the systems, the better chances your family will have at owning themselves. The election is next week, and like choosing between a scanner and a pat down, the American people get to choose between Obama and Romney. I wonder what will it take for the awake and the aware to choose freedom.

I am not attacking Mr. Leahy for his choices. I quite understand them. So sad for America that so many are forced to make the choice as he did. I am simply using his experience as an illustration as to what Americans are facing everyday, and why I think those forced choices are just tightening the noose around every American’s neck. I personally think Americans have crossed the line of having any chance of freedom and dignity. I do believe we will have a civil war. Yet, I do wonder how “awake and aware” Americans will then make their choices. My choice is secession as our only hope of freedom.

When one weighs the issue of scanners and pat downs, I think it is important to ponder that our military, in the middle east, uses trained dogs for their security to do what these machines and "pat downs" are suppose to do for our "security" here in America. Well you all know.. follow the money, and condition the people! These scanners and pat down are not about security, but that would be a whole other thread.......................

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

Lazlo
1st November 2012, 22:00
Your posts on this topic would indicate that you believe there is very rigid planning and control from a small group of individuals with nefarious intent.

...
Power wasn't taken from us, we gave it away.
Ah - yes - it is not their fault at all. It is our fault for giving power away, and my fault for holding unreasonable beliefs :).

You misrepresent my beliefs, you present a false dichotomy (all their fault or all ours), and the bastards don't deserve a free pass.

Paul, you are pulling quotes out of context...again. That's not what I said. We are obviously talking right past one another at the moment.

DeDukshyn
1st November 2012, 22:28
I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

Zoe x

If I ever have the chance I'll fake an intense arousal during the pat down ;) That should be good ;)

PHARAOH
1st November 2012, 22:29
Brave is the first word that came to mind.
It's easy to think about standing up, but when the time comes to following through,
that takes guts! You and your daughter did us all a service. Please thank her for me.

Thank you all for your acknowledgments. Much appreciated. It really is just that simple. Remember, they are playing on your fears of, "what will people think or say of me". Remember this is the ego speaking to your mind. :loco:

Paul
1st November 2012, 22:40
We are obviously talking right past one another at the moment.
Agreed :).

Fred Steeves
1st November 2012, 22:49
Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested.


Hi there Blake, you make many valid, well thought out points, as you often do. What I said in an earlier post applies here:


Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not fearful of paying even the ultimate
penalty, but it had better be for the right reason, done the right way, and at
the right time.

If I were a father, and was witnessing first hand my 13 year old daughter being fingered in, say the crotch area, and I didn't immediately proceed to stand up for her in that moment, I would no longer deserve to be known as her father.

These matters can be handled without a physical confrontation, and a father with his wits about him, might just be able to get the witnesses around him to join in the calling out of a pedophile. There's a personal motto I carry with at all times: "The right person, in the right place, at the right time, and doing exactly the right thing, can change the world for the better in the blink of an eye".

It may be a long shot, while playing on someone else's home field, but that's precisely what great moments in time are all about. Even if I wind up doing 10 years for making that stand, atleast I can live with myself. I reckon I would command some respect in prison as well.

Cheers,
Fred

gripreaper
2nd November 2012, 05:47
I think I've been well and truly irradiated from when I worked at the Vets.
Even with the lead gowns and gloves the scatter from our ancient ex NHS machine probably sent X rays out to the passing public lol

If people were to opt out and give the impression they 'enjoyed' the patting down, in the most creepy way they could muster, it would be great to see if this made them feel unconfortable.

Zoe x

If I ever have the chance I'll fake an intense arousal during the pat down ;) That should be good ;)

I have not flown since 9-11. but when I do, I'm going to have some fun with it.

I'll break out my best "puffy shirt" with a very open chest, wear some gold chains around my neck, some pointy cowboy boots (you know the kind you can kill a cockroach in the corner of a room with) and a pair of jeans about 3 sizes too small, and wear a cup. I may even put on some make up, like eye liner and rouge.

Then, I'll act all excited for the pat down!

Buck
2nd November 2012, 08:21
And as much as I hate to admit it, and I really do hate to admit it, if all of this TSA crap has saved a single plane from going down, just one plane in 11 years, then it's worth it.
They are stealing the liberty of ourselves, and our descendants, world-wide. Many brave men have died defending that liberty. TSA is not about saving planes from going down; the bastards controlling the TSA determine which planes will go down, and choose to kill millions, with toxic drugs, food, air, water, wars, ...

I would gladly choose a free world, with notoriously unreliable planes, over a prison planet with perfect planes.

well said Paul, well said


" Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

skyflower
4th November 2012, 22:26
I have been lucky for a few years and avoided those back scatter machines. However this past May I was faced with the choice, flying out of LAX, and opted out. It was a non-event, the tsa people just did what they were told to do, and let me on my way. But, I was the only opt out while I was there. My co-worker even asked me what did I have in my carry on to be singled out like that, and when I told him I asked to opt out, he looked at me with a puzzled face.

Dennis Leahy
3rd December 2012, 08:03
Blake,

First, I would like to ask you once again not to speak to me in such a formal tone. Being called "Mr. Leahy" makes me think of the Matrix movie, and the condescendingly snarky vibe of the villain calling Neo "Mr. Anderson." Honestly, the vibe that's coming through is sort of a seething restraint, a faux formality lightly veiling contempt. Let's keep it casual, OK? We can be both casual and respectful. And if you simply cannot shake the habit of adding a title to my name, you could use "Reverend", because I am an ordained minister. Yep, I got my wallet-sized credentials from the Universal Life Church to prove it (and it was good enough to switch me from "1-A" -available, unrestricted- to "2-D" -student of divinity- so that if I went to Vietnam it would have been with a copy of the Tao te Ching and not a gun.) OK, so now that we've dispensed with the pseudoformality...

At first, it seemed as if you got the gist of my post: the goddamned TSA and their scanners, and how ridiculous it was that (on that day, at that time) I seemed to be the only person opting not to be milimeter-waved. But then you diverted off and made it sound like you would have handled my situation quite differently. You don't say how, exactly, and you left me curious - especially with this:

I am happy Mr. Leahy got to go to his family reunion, and returned safely home without incidence. The next time he may or may not be so lucky. I do hope that he or anyone else doesn’t’ live with the illusion there was any victory for Mr. Leahy, or his daughter in preserving their basic rights, freedom, or dignity in choosing what they obviously thought was the lesser of two evils. He, like everyone else, was just part of the crowd being shepparded, by the border collies TSA agents into the corral where the government is conditioning all Americans to trade their freedom, rights, privacy and dignity in order that they can, for now, still lead their lives. Most unfortunately these same Americans are rationalizing that they are awake and aware even though their present actions are simply conditioning them, incrementally, for even more enslavement.Did I mention not feeling joyous, and not feeling like some sort of a hero? No? Well, then allow me to spell it out: I opted out, and opted my daughter out - of getting our bodies scanned. That's all. I didn't run a victory lap. I was quite pissed off and full of adrenaline, and it took my body a couple of hours to normalize. Parents make hundreds of thousands of choices in their children's lives, and I know I've made some really good ones and some that weren't so good. But don't walk away smugly feeling like there was no "Catch-22", and that she could have come through this family wedding event without experiencing any psychological trauma. If you think her missing this wedding that every one of her cousins, aunts and uncles, and paternal grandparents would be at would have been a non-event in a 13 year-old girl's life, then you are ignorant of 13 year old girls.

Like the story of the Zen monk that set the woman down back at the river's edge, my daughter seems to have left the pat-down event behind. Not to minimize the trauma of a pat-down, but I can guarantee that there would have been a huge trauma over the course of months if she had been the only person out of 40 family members who was not allowed to go.

So, spell it out, what does a real awake and aware person do in this case? What exactly would you have done?


and then there was this sort of finger-wagging, goading challenge:

Mr. Leahy wrote he didn’t let his daughter out of his sight, and kept her near, as any protective father would do. Perhaps psychologically that gave his thirteen-year-old daughter moral support, while making him feel as if he had more control over the situation than he actually did. But honestly, what would he had done if she had a “less than professional” TSA agent patting her down who was having a bad day? If his daughter experienced some sort of distress, all Mr. Leahy could do was file a complaint after the fact, and the damage had already been done. If he spoke up, or tried to come to his daughter’s defense, chances are extremely high he would have been arrested.It is easy to sound like a "tough guy" in retrospect, but yes, had there been a moment where I felt the TSA agent was 'molesting' rather than 'patting-down' I can say there would have been instant action on my part, and yes, it would have resulted in my arrest. By insisting that I stand next to my daughter while she was being patted down, I reversed the "normal" intimidation that they employ as part of the psychological disassembly process. At 6'-2" and 220 pounds, I felt no intimidation, but I'll bet the female TSA agent did.


...he did not keep his dignity or that of his daughter’s when he consented to the pat downs. He was given a choice between two evils...This choice was not made at the airport, nor was it made spur-of-the-moment or under duress. It was made calmly, at home, two months prior. I didn't tell my daughter what she had to do; I asked her if she would consent to a pat-down, because it would be the guaranteed response to refusing the scanner. I explained to her that it would be a woman, and that she would use the back of her hands. I told her she could just tell me no, that there was no pressure to say yes. I told her that it was unconstitutional but the crooks running the government made it "legal" to act unconstitutionally. She knows exactly where I'm coming from, as I have had many long talks with her to clue her in to the bastards running the show. I have told her that there are no terrorists and that these type of things are to keep the fear factor as high as possible, in order to convince US citizens to support (or at least not protest) the illegal wars. She didn't just drop off of a turnip truck.

She also knows that I have been working on a plan to actually rectify the situation, and not just moaning and bitching or smugly playing "more aware than thou" games on a keyboard with far-flung strangers.

So, what you got? Specifically, if your personal choice - for your own pursuit of happiness - involves air travel through one of the major airports, how will you face (how have you faced) the reality that if you want on that plane, you're going to submit to a pat-down or a scan?


Dennis

Maunagarjana
3rd December 2012, 14:57
Bottom line, don't be afraid of saying a very calm, but direct "no" to the scanner. Or being unduly groped for that matter. Listen, I'm not a tough guy, or an overly brave man, but I've looked a TSA guy directly in the eye at the foot of the scanner, and said calmly: "I'm not going through that". They are people too, and can quickly sense your "presence", whether you are just being surly and full of bluster, or are most serious, and prepared to stand.

Very well said, and I agree. There's no need for all the histrionics, really. It will just be counterproductive anyway. Be calm, but firm. They may try to rattle you or provoke you, but you don't need to make a big scene. That's just playing their game. I was just watching a video of a talk given by David Icke and he had this to say at one point, which is line with what you said above:

“No more do we comply out of fear of not complying.
We stop complying but with a smile on our face and
a heart that’s open. Not in anger. Not in bitterness.
But in steely, 'We’re not having it.' So we hold our
vibration and don’t get pulled into theirs.”
- David Icke

Dennis Leahy
3rd December 2012, 15:52
Two articles that are germane to the topic were sent to me by Selene (thanks, Selene!), and I'll post both of the links (and a blurb from each):



To absolutely no one's surprise, the mainstream media last week ignored a legitimate grassroots protest against the TSA's allegedly invasive full-body scanners.

Oh sure, there were whispers of National Opt-Out Week here and there. The trade publication Government Security News reported them, although it left readers with the impression that this action would fizzle. A lone op-ed in a New Jersey newspaper recognized the protest and supported it.

The TSA briefly acknowledged Opt-Out Week in a blog post that came across as both wooden and threatening. Wooden, in the sense that it described the opt-out options in almost clinical terms; and threatening in the sense that it implied passengers could be arrested for taking photos of the screening process ("While the TSA does not prohibit photographs at screening locations, local laws, state statutes or local ordinances may," it warned).

But most media outlets -- staffed by junior editors and wide-eyed interns during the American Thanksgiving week -- simply blew off Opt-Out Week.Source: It's The Beginning Of The End For The TSA's Full-Body Scanners (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-elliott/its-the-beginning-of-the-_2_b_2187877.html) ( - a poorly titled article that is really about National Opt-out Week.)




Last month, the Transportation Security Administration said it was moving nearly half its X-ray body scanners from some of the nation's biggest airports to smaller ones. But it turns out that more than 90 of the controversial machines will sit in a Texas warehouse indefinitely, agency officials said Thursday.

The agency says it hopes to someday deploy the warehoused machines, but even that prospect was thrown into doubt by allegations that the manufacturer, Rapiscan Systems, may have falsified tests of its experimental privacy software designed to eliminate explicit images of passengers' bodies.

The machines in the warehouse cost about $14 million total, or roughly $150,000 each. Source: TSA X-Ray Body Scanners Sit Idle in Warehouse (http://www.propublica.org/article/tsa-x-ray-body-scanners-sit-idle-in-warehouse)

Dennis

soleil
3rd December 2012, 16:11
i hate to say this...but im glad i have zero reasons to travel into the states anytime soon....

Dennis Leahy
8th January 2013, 19:23
There was an article about silly/outrageous items offered at Amazon.com. This one made the list:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G9WA5NRDL.jpg

Playmobil Security Check Point

(Source: http://www.amazon.com/PLAYMOBIL%C2%AE-36138-Playmobil-Security-Check/dp/B0002CYTL2/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1357671786&sr=1-1&keywords=playmobil+security+checkpoint)

Some of the comments are pretty good:


"Most Helpful Customer Reviews
7,452 of 7,581 people found the following review helpful
3.0 out of 5 stars Great lesson for the kids! (http://www.amazon.com/review/RGJ8WVRL6MWBD/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0002CYTL2&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=165793011&store=toys-and-games) September 9, 2005
By loosenut (http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A3NIOBW1NJXB0Z/ref=cm_cr_dp_pdp)
I was a little disappointed when I first bought this item, because the functionality is limited. My 5 year old son pointed out that the passenger's shoes cannot be removed. Then, we placed a deadly fingernail file underneath the passenger's scarf, and neither the detector doorway nor the security wand picked it up. My son said "that's the worst security ever!". But it turned out to be okay, because when the passenger got on the Playmobil B757 and tried to hijack it, she was mobbed by a couple of other heroic passengers, who only sustained minor injuries in the scuffle, which were treated at the Playmobil Hospital.

The best thing about this product is that it teaches kids about the realities of living in a high-surveillence society. My son said he wants the Playmobil Neighborhood Surveillence System set for Christmas. I've heard that the CC TV cameras on that thing are pretty worthless in terms of quality and motion detection, so I think I'll get him the Playmobil Abu-Gharib Interogation Set instead (it comes with a cute little memo from George Bush).

"
" 2,159 of 2,279 people found the following review helpful
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V192240867_.gif Educational and Fun!, February 27, 2008
By
Zampano (http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A8K9SSUQLGNSZ/ref=cm_cr_rdp_pdp)


= Durability:http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V192240867_.gif = Fun:http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V192240867_.gif = Educational:http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V192240867_.gif
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
Thank you Playmobil for allowing me to teach my 5-year old the importance of recognizing what a failing bureaucracy in a ever growing fascist state looks like. Sometimes it's a hard lesson for kids to learn because not all pigs carry billy clubs and wear body armor. I applaud the people who created this toy for finally being hip to our changing times. Little children need to be aware that not all smiling faces and uniforms are friendly. I noticed that my child is now more interested in current events. Just the other day he asked me why we had to forfeit so much of our liberties and personal freedoms and I had to answer "well, it's because the terrorists have already won". Yes, they have won.

I also highly recommend the Playmobil "farm fencing" so you can take your escorted airline passenger away and fence him behind bars as if he were in Guantanamo Bay."
" 15 of 16 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars Realistic but..., January 5, 2013
By
Rob Byrne (http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A24CLSIURCKI5S/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdp) - See all my reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A24CLSIURCKI5S/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview)


This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
The additional cost of the optional cavity search sigmoidoscopy made this an unrealistic purchase for the average 3rd grader. Otherwise, very realistic. "
" 35 of 36 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Best Toy So Far For Brainwashing The Kiddos To Be......., December 19, 2012
By
H. Holmes "SuzieQ" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A1DH8NUC9V4CY7/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdp) (North Myrtle Beach, SC) - See all my reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1DH8NUC9V4CY7/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview)
(REAL NAME) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=cm_rn_bdg_help?ie=UTF8&nodeId=14279681&pop-up=1#RN)


= Durability:1.0 out of 5 stars = Fun:1.0 out of 5 stars = Educational:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
This has got to be the best toy I've come across so far for brainwashing my little Cindy Lou into accepting and not questioning the "police state", now in full swing at an airport (and soon a shopping mall, sports arena, etc) near you.

This toy would be much more complete and satisfying if it came with a grandmother in a wheelchair, a woman with a prosthetic breast, a man with a colostomy bag, and a baby in diapers, all just frothing at the mouth to have their privacy breached by a loveable TSA agent.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights were so 200 years ago! Show us your "papers please" and let this toy show YOU (and your kids) how to give away all your rights while at the same time, strip you of any dignity you may possess. Americuh! Hell yeah! "
" 36 of 37 people found the following review helpful
2.0 out of 5 stars The government is also a toy factory, December 20, 2012
By
Xtian (http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A3PYQB7KU4HZ63/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdp) - See all my reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A3PYQB7KU4HZ63/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview)


= Durability:4.0 out of 5 stars = Fun:5.0 out of 5 stars = Educational:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Playmobil Security Check Point (Toy)
Tyranny is now fun! This is a great way to indoctrinate your children into believing that giving up rights for "security" is a good thing. Clothing on passenger can't be removed, so it's not very realistic. Nor do the security figures have gloves on. Health hazard! But that's okay, you get microwaved in the x-ray scanner anyways. But you will notice that each figure is smiling brightly because they know they are now SAFE under the government's watch! Big Brother knows what's best for the people. "Dennis

Carmody
9th January 2013, 02:41
IIRC, the stats show, that if you add in all dangers from all transport methods to the number each has 'moved' or shipped, that the odds of dying in a terrorist attack on a plane, or even any sort of danger from a plane, is something in the area of 10 billion to 1. Which is about a billion or more better odds of being safe than walking down the street in the city.

The simple conclusion, is that like searching the internet and violating all privacy for pedophiles, is that neither issue is even remotely real. Both are faked, as covers for other agendas.

IIRC, we'd need have about 100-300 planes (chock full of people) a year....fly into buildings, in order to get the level of danger where flying is comparable to the dangers of walking down the street.

If you look at the numbers, actually look at the numbers,and compare, this is what you find. No joke.

~~~~~~~~~~

it is suspected that is a issue of stability and control of indoctrination, in order to hold a pattern long enough to make it stick.

Auch things require a MINIMUM of a generation to take hold. As a child has to grow to enough of a condition that it knows no better and the adult.... must forget.

It's part of the issue of 'holding the line' on the lie of 9/11, to make sure it sticks.

Palestine has been going on since actually, before 1947. Yet it is a zero in much of the western world's understanding of what actually happened. We're up to over 60 years on that one, and it is NOT dissipated, and fallen into normalization and undisputed history, for those who are paying attention. Two wrongs make a right, in that one. tribal religions. **** me. You can have it.

Hopefully this sort of thing (human memory and rumination) is slowing the bastards down.

Simonm
9th January 2013, 05:14
The EU have decided to make these things unacceptable, on health grounds. AFAIK there were only two UK airports with these installed, Heathrow and Manchester. Last time we flew from Manchester I was selected, out of a dozen or so for the full body imaging scanner. I politely looked at this kid, who looked no more than 16 and told him I wanted to request a pat down instead. From his initial reaction I thought there was to be a problem, but no, he called for a supervisor and this chap came forward and took me over to the side of the other passengers.

The supervisor patiently and courteously patted me down, with good humour and let me go through to the rest of the passengers. Thankfully, these machines are now a thing of the past here in the UK. I would imagine that if the vast majority of the US citizens stopped acquiescing they would have no choice but to stop using these ridiculous machines.

skyflower
12th January 2013, 14:47
I am at the lax airport right now and have just passed through security. I opted out as I always do but this time I was challenged back with a question : "do you know what you are opting out of?" . I answered yes and the tsa guard told me " these are not X-ray machines anymore". Funny thing to me, they still looked like the same scanner machines we have been avoiding, so I politely told her that I would look into it but for now I would opt out. Could this be a new tactic to discourage opt outs?

It was disturbing to see virtually a packed security area full of people just sheepishly walking through those machines and not enough people opting out. Had half of those people opted out, the tsa would have been forced to turn on the metal detectors.

Earth Angel
12th January 2013, 17:05
yes or in comes a law making it illegal to opt out ?


I always opt out. I now have my wife and daughter doing the same. It's just that simple. All it takes is more people to catch on and away the machines go.

Maunagarjana
19th January 2013, 05:52
TSA Pulls Plug on Airport Nude Body Scanners

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/tsa-abandons-nude-scanners/