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Rocky_Shorz
14th November 2012, 17:32
The two state solution is moving forward and Iran's puppets in Hamas are being erased not so quietly...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/11/15/world/middleeast/15gaza/15gaza-articleInline.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/11/15/world/middleeast/15gazaspan/15gazaspan-articleLarge.jpg


Israeli Strike in Gaza Kills the Military Leader of Hamas... link (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/world/middleeast/israeli-strike-in-gaza-kills-the-military-leader-of-hamas.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXatG2Z9Oqc

Rocky_Shorz
14th November 2012, 17:37
so almost every top military commander in the middle east have been removed, Romney lost, so Israel is moving forward with expanding the middle east wars...

it isn't the people asking for this...

so far, Egypt's leaders are holding down the crowds, tomorrow is The Islamic New Year, Israel is supplying the fireworks for Gaza...

Ground troops are already moving into place, if any rockets are fired, the ground offensive will start...

Lifebringer
14th November 2012, 18:06
Jeremy Scahill is on Twitter now saying that Gaza is under attack. I'm gonna scrounge around DemocracyNow.org and see what's going on. Those are the kind of contacts, i pay attention to when the "darkside pulls a temper tantrum." I'll get back to you soon.

PS.
Doesn't Netanyahu know that the Intelligience has linked him to Larry Silverstein, and war crimes against this country on 911 is about to hit the fan?

NeoConLeaders, just fail to understand, their killing of innocents IS OVER!
Their egos are the problem now, because they are completely mad.

(Con't)

Democracy Now! says that after a temporary ceasefire agreed upon by Israel and Palestine, Israel launched attacks by Netanyahu. Do ya think, he's pissed Romney didn't win with all that money in the race, and has decided to force OUR hand to stop them?

Time for Israel to "stop" their cookoos.

Rocky_Shorz
14th November 2012, 18:06
looks like the 3rd Hamas leader have been taken out...

New Israeli airstrike around the house of Hamas leader Dr. Mahmoud al-Zahar

Naval warships are sailing towards Gaza, troops arriving on the borders, this is about to expand...

Gaza launched two Rockets at Israel, so didn't heed Israel's offer of no ground attacks if they didn't counter...

MorningSong
14th November 2012, 18:18
Yes, I've been following this since Monday when I saw this :


Israel launches fresh strikes on Gaza
Attacks come after Palestinian groups say they are ready for ceasefire if Israel "stops its aggression".

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/20121112205723641623.html

Followed by this on Tuesday:


Israel launches air raids on Gaza ‘rocket launching sites’ in early hours

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/13/249260.html

And this:


Israel considers resuming targeted killings of Gaza militant leaders to stop rocket fire

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-considers-resuming-targeted-killings-of-gaza-militant-leaders-to-stop-rocket-fire/2012/11/13/363830a6-2d59-11e2-b631-2aad9d9c73ac_story.html?wprss=rss_social-world-headlines&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

And this today:


Israeli Airstrike Kills Hamas Militant Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israel-palestinian-bid-threaten-accords-17714174#.UKPgSlLisdU

Keeping up here:

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/israel

Sad...sad...sad...

Carmody
14th November 2012, 18:52
Controlling Gaza in totality would be the wisest course, in preparation, if one was planning to hit Iran's nuclear facilities.

Snookie
14th November 2012, 21:15
Crap! I thought the only good thing about Obummer getting back in was that Israel wouldn't be as aggressive as they would be with Rumeny. Well, looks like that psychopath in Isreal wants his war come hell or high water.

panopticon
14th November 2012, 21:17
RT reported in the last hour:

Israel is reportedly preparing for a ground operation into Gaza.
Israel's ambassador to Egypt has left for Tel Aviv together with a number of the embassy's employees, claim some media reports. Others insist embassy functioning as usual.
The Israeli Security Cabinet has given the IDF permission to draft reservists and expand the Gaza operation.
Source (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/).

ABC (Oz):

Israeli army spokeswoman Avital Leibovich said the air strikes were just the start of an operation targeting Gaza militants, and had been authorised by chief of staff Lieutenant General Benny Gantz.
"After the rocket fire of recent days, the chief of staff has decided to authorise the targeting of terrorist organisations in the Gaza Strip," she said.
"This is the beginning."
...
Israel Ziv, former head of the army's Gaza division, said the strike was "a very clear message to Hamas."
"This is the beginning of a larger operation that will go on for the next few days," he said.
"There will surely be an escalation."
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-15/hamas-chief-assassinated-in-gaza-strike/4372598).

norman
14th November 2012, 21:34
Decapitation is "First Strike", isn't it?

Such a thing is way out beyond diplomacy or media war or anything 'peacetime'.

This is the stuff of hot War.

enfoldedblue
14th November 2012, 22:35
The article anbout this on "Yahoo News' is titled "You've Opened the Gates of Hell"

panopticon
14th November 2012, 23:12
I just read a really interesting tweet:


Dear USA, your 9/11 is our 24/7. Sincerely, Gaza.

Also the IDF has been "live tweeting" its attack.
Military Strikes Go Viral: Israel Is Live-Tweeting Its Own Offensive Into Gaza (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/military-strikes-go-viral-israel-is-live-tweeting-its-own-offensive-into-gaza/265227/)

astrid
14th November 2012, 23:46
I have a close friend that has "seen" this escalating to a very frightening end..
i have been hoping and praying with everything i have that is wrong,
or was more a warning and the timeline can be shifted,
but i have to say I'm very concerned to see this all playing out
and particularly now..

panopticon
14th November 2012, 23:46
IDF live weblog of "Operation Pillar of Defence":
Live Updates: Operation Pillar of Defense on Terror Targets in Gaza (http://www.idfblog.com/2012/11/14/live-updates-idf-terror-targets-gaza/)

Reading unconfirmed reports that the IDF are planning to disconnect all internet and telecommunications to Gaza (allegedly reported on "Israel Channel 10"?).
This would be reminiscent of the Gaza Blackout (http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/benjamin-doherty/unexplained-gaza-communications-blackout-highlights-israeli-control-networks) that happened in 2011.

panopticon
15th November 2012, 00:11
The last major IDF attack on Gaza was its 22 day campaign in 2008 which was 6 weeks out from a general election.
There are elections being held at the end of January.

By the way today is the Islamic New Years Day...

Found this image being used by the IDF to link to their "Hamas Uses Gazans as Human Shields When Launching Rockets (http://www.idfblog.com/hamas/2012/10/29/hamas-uses-its-own-civilians-as-human-shields-when-launching-rockets-at-israel/)" page. Very obvious psychological propaganda (the words 'Hamas "Human Shield Tactics"' appear overlaid on the image):
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19308&d=1353309506

panopticon
15th November 2012, 01:13
Egypt will no longer tolerate attacks on Palestinians: FJP (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Nov-14/195047-egypt-will-no-longer-tolerate-attacks-on-palestinians-fjp.ashx)

It has also been reported that Egyptian commando's and tanks have moved into the Sinai Desert (unverified).

astrid
15th November 2012, 01:22
Ok.. thats enough for me..
I'm cancelling all my appts and swinging over to this
We need a mass conscious effort on this now

161803398
15th November 2012, 01:29
Live updates from Gaza: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

panopticon
15th November 2012, 01:32
Unverified Press Release from White House on Obama/Netanyahu/Morsi conversation.


THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 14, 2012

Readout of the President’s Phone Calls with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and Egyptian President Morsi

Today, the President spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Morsi about the rocket attacks being launched from Gaza into Israel, and the escalating violence in Gaza.

The President reiterated to Prime Minister Netanyahu the United States’ support for Israel’s right to self-defense in light of the barrage of rocket attacks being launched from Gaza against Israeli civilians. The President urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to make every effort to avoid civilian casualties. The two agreed that Hamas needs to stop its attacks on Israel to allow the situation to de-escalate. The two leaders agreed to stay in close touch in the coming days. Earlier today, Vice President Biden received a briefing from Prime Minister Netanyahu on the events in Gaza.

The President also spoke with President Morsi given Egypt’s central role in preserving regional security. In their conversation, President Obama condemned the rocket fire from Gaza into Israel and reiterated Israel’s right to self-defense. The two leaders agreed on the importance of working to de-escalate the situation as quickly as possible and agreed to stay in close touch in the days ahead.
Source (http://stefanjbecket.tumblr.com/post/35742604511/full-white-house-readout-of-obamas-calls-to-netanyahu) (now confirmed Source (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136)).

Al Jazeera report 'US throws its weight behind Israel after launch of airstrikes on Gaza (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/us-throws-its-weight-behind-israel-after-launch-airstrikes-gaza)':

The United States threw its weight behind Israel after it launched a barrage of air strikes on the Gaza Strip, and condemned Palestinian militant rocket attacks on southern Israel.

"We support Israel's right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties," US State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in a statement.

"We strongly condemn the barrage of rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel, and we regret the death and injury of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians caused by the ensuing violence," he added.

"There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel," Toner said in his statement, calling on them "to stop these cowardly acts immediately."

"Hamas claims to have the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart, yet it continues to engage in violence that is counterproductive to the Palestinian cause," he added.

"Attacking Israel on a near daily basis does nothing to help Palestinians in Gaza or to move the Palestinian people any closer to achieving self determination."

This section of a Huffington Post report (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/obama-talks-with-israel-e_n_2133664.html) appears to confirm the above press release:

The White House said Obama spoke to Netanyahu and Morsi Wednesday night and reiterated U.S. support for Israel's right to self-defense from attacks against civilians. Obama urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties in its response.
Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/obama-talks-with-israel-e_n_2133664.html).

astrid
15th November 2012, 02:00
Just reposting this live coverage...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

Harry also has a youtube channel here..
http://www.youtube.com/harryfear

Tesseract
15th November 2012, 02:12
Beware hasbara.


Hamas supports the Syrian opposition, something people might want to think about before claiming they are a puppet of Iran.

Many countries around the world refuse to bow to the US and recognise Hamas as a terror organisation.

Hamas won the last set of free and fair election of the Palestinian parliament in 2006.

Ahmed al-Jabari, the assassinated leader helped secure the release of over 1000 Palestinians kidnapped by Israel.

The people of Gaza have the right to resist the blockade of their territory and the oppression and murder of their citizens.

If there are any protests in your area over this latest war, please try and attend.

D-Day
15th November 2012, 02:13
Obama urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties in its response.

Oh, how very f***ing considerate of you... ya freakin' maniac!

Now I see why he was given his Noble Peac Prize, so very thoughtful.

panopticon
15th November 2012, 02:13
Al Jazeera Australia just reported that it appears Israel is massing troops for assault (unconfirmed).
Also BBC workers 11 month old son amongst the increasing number of Palestinian casualties (15 Dead/130 Injured) (Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9679461/Baby-son-of-BBC-worker-killed-in-Gaza-strike.html)).

Tesseract
15th November 2012, 02:33
It is confirmed that Israel has dropped leaflets warning of a ground invasion. Many suspect invasion in the next 24 hours. Source: @Harryfear - english language journalist based in Gaza. Watch his livestream here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

panopticon
15th November 2012, 03:00
It is confirmed that Israel has dropped leaflets warning of a ground invasion. Many suspect invasion in the next 24 hours. Source: @Harryfear - english language journalist based in Gaza. Watch his livestream here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

Welcome to Avalon Tesseract,
Have you found a copy of the leaflets?
I've been looking for a few hours and while their contents have been reported I haven't found a copy as of yet.
I know that the Palestinians are very busy sheltering from bombs but surely someone would have got a photo on their phone of one!
Their contents are reported as warning Gazan's that Israel will occupy Gaza City in 20 hours (typical war propaganda).

panopticon
15th November 2012, 03:35
Palestinians urge U.N. Security Council action over Israel strikes (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/14/us-israel-palestinians-un-council-idUSBRE8AD1MX20121114):


UNITED NATIONS | Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:20pm EST
(Reuters) - The Palestinian Authority on Wednesday urged the U.N. Security Council to take a stand on Israel's latest offensive in the Gaza Strip, which it said in a letter to the council amounted to "illegal criminal actions."

"This escalation, which continues at this moment, demands the attention of the international community, including the Security Council, with the aim of averting the further deterioration and destabilization of the situation on the ground and the fueling by Israel of yet another deadly cycle of violence and bloodshed," said Palestinian envoy Riyad Mansour.

In a letter to Indian U.N. Ambassador Hardeep Singh Puri, president of the 15-nation council this month, Mansour added that "a direct message must be sent to Israel to cease its military campaign against the Palestinian people under its occupation, including the cessation of extrajudicial killing."

Israel launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza on Wednesday, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening an invasion of the enclave that the Islamist group vowed would "open the gates of hell".

The militant group Hamas, not the Palestinian Authority, controls Gaza.

Egypt, whose new Islamist government is still honoring the 1979 peace agreement with Israel, condemned the raids on Gaza as a threat to regional security and withdrew its ambassador from Israel. It also called for an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council.

A spokesman for the Indian U.N. mission did not respond immediately to a query about whether the council planned to meet soon about Gaza.

The Security Council has difficulty reaching consensus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, council diplomats say, since the United States works hard to prevent it from taking action that would annoy its close ally Israel.

(Reporting By Louis Charbonneau; Editing by Doina Chiacu)
Source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/14/us-israel-palestinians-un-council-idUSBRE8AD1MX20121114).

panopticon
15th November 2012, 03:50
Just in remarks by U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations (http://usun.state.gov/briefing/statements/200564.htm):


Remarks by Ambassador Susan E. Rice, U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations, At a Security Council Private Meeting on Gaza

Thank you, Mr. President. Today, the United States strongly condemned the barrage of rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel and expressed regret at the death and injury of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians caused by the ensuing violence. This evening, President Obama spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Morsi of Egypt about the developing situation in Gaza.

President Obama told Prime Minister Netanyahu that he understands and supports Israel’s right to self-defense in light of countless rocket attacks on Israeli civilians being launched from Gaza. The President urged that Prime Minister Netanyahu make every effort to avoid civilian casualties, and agreed that Hamas needs to stop the attacks on Israel and allow the situation to de-escalate. The two leaders agreed to stay in close touch in the coming days.

President Obama also spoke with President Morsi of Egypt, given Egypt’s critical role in regional security. Both agreed that everyone’s interests are best served by ensuring that this situation does not escalate. The two similarly agreed to stay in close touch over the coming days.

The Government of Israel has noted that, since the beginning of 2012, more than 768 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza, and over 12,000 in the past 12 years. Israel, like any nation, has the right to defend itself against such vicious attacks.

There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel. We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately.

Hamas claims to have the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart, yet it continues to engage in violence that does nothing but set back the Palestinian cause. Attacking Israel on a near daily basis does nothing to help Palestinians in Gaza nor to move the Palestinian people any closer to achieving self determination and independence.

Thank you, Mr. President.
Source (http://usun.state.gov/briefing/statements/200564.htm).

panopticon
15th November 2012, 04:39
Report from the UN News Centre (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=43501) regarding Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's diplomatic communications with Egypt and Israel:


Ban confers with regional leaders on growing violence in Gaza and southern Israel

14 November 2012 – Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon spoke by telephone on Wednesday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi about the escalating violence in Gaza and southern Israel, while the Security Council met in a closed, late-night session on the situation.

According to a readout from the Secretary-General's spokesperson, Mr. Ban expressed his concern to Mr. Netanyahu about the deteriorating situation in southern Israel and Gaza, which includes an alarming escalation of indiscriminate rocket fire from Gaza into Israel and the targeted killing by Israel of a Hamas military operative in Gaza.

Ahmed Said Khalil al-Jabari, the head of the military wing of the Palestinian group Hamas that controls Gaza, was killed when his car was reportedly targeted during Israeli air strikes on the territory that followed a wave of rocket attacks against Israel from Gaza.

The Secretary-General reiterated his strong condemnation of rocket fire out of Gaza and noted his expectation that Israeli reactions are measured so as not to provoke a new cycle of bloodshed that could cause additional civilian casualties and have dangerous spillover effects in the region.

He also called for the parties to exercise the utmost restraint and to respect international humanitarian law.

The 15-member Council met Wednesday night behind closed doors, with the participation of the two parties, and heard a briefing on the situation from Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman.

In his conversation with Mr. Morsi, the Secretary-General stated the need to prevent any further deterioration of the situation, and expressed strong support for the leadership being exercised by Egypt to restore calm in the region.
Source (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=43501).

panopticon
15th November 2012, 04:48
No surprise here...


04:15 GMT: The UN Security Council emergency meeting on Gaza ends with no concrete decision reached.
Source (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/)

torti
15th November 2012, 05:35
I'm sorry to be naive, but what is the significance of this war? I've read the thread, and feel the tone of all the posts, but I am confused. I haven't seen much about this on NZ news, but sometimes you don't see what you don't look for.

panopticon
15th November 2012, 06:07
I'm sorry to be naive, but what is the significance of this war? I've read the thread, and feel the tone of all the posts, but I am confused. I haven't seen much about this on NZ news, but sometimes you don't see what you don't look for.

Welcome to Avalon Torti,

There are so many ways of looking at how to answer your question.
Maybe try with the following as a spring board into one aspect of it...

http://vimeo.com/17401477
http://vimeo.com/17401477
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

astrid
15th November 2012, 06:07
Follow Harry on Twitter

https://twitter.com/harryfear

truth will win out
15th November 2012, 06:16
Egypt has recalled their Ambassador.

http://rt.com/news/egypt-ambassador-un-israel-719/

panopticon
15th November 2012, 06:30
Here's the latest pamphlet from the Israeli Defence Force Command:

http://www.idfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/leaflet-e1352957949344.jpg

Official Israeli translation:


Important announcement for the residents of the Gaza Strip:

For your own safety, take responsibility for yourselves and avoid being present in the vicinity of Hamas operatives and facilities and those of other terror organizations that pose a risk to your safety.

Hamas is once again dragging the region to violence and bloodshed. The IDF is determined to defend the residents of the State of Israel. This announcement is valid until quiet is restored to the region. Israel Defense Forces Command.
Source (http://www.idfblog.com/2012/11/15/idf-disperses-leaflets-above-gaza-strip/) -- IDF.

As a question... Where are people supposed to actually go?
1.7 million people, half under 18 years of age, live in a small '41 kilometres (25 mi) long, and from 6 to 12 kilometres (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, with a total area of 365 square kilometres (141 sq mi)' (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg/224px-Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg)

How does someone do what is suggested?
Then there's the fact that they aren't allowed to leave Gaza...
Food and water insecurity and contamination are also major issues (see the 2010 UN report 'Farming without Land, Fishing without Water: Gaza Agriculture Sector Struggles to Survive (http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/9A265F2A909E9A1D8525772E004FC34B)').

truth will win out
15th November 2012, 06:51
Here's the latest pamphlet from the Israeli Defence Force Command:

http://www.idfblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/leaflet-e1352957949344.jpg

Official Israeli translation:


Important announcement for the residents of the Gaza Strip:

For your own safety, take responsibility for yourselves and avoid being present in the vicinity of Hamas operatives and facilities and those of other terror organizations that pose a risk to your safety.

Hamas is once again dragging the region to violence and bloodshed. The IDF is determined to defend the residents of the State of Israel. This announcement is valid until quiet is restored to the region. Israel Defense Forces Command.
Source (http://www.idfblog.com/2012/11/15/idf-disperses-leaflets-above-gaza-strip/) -- IDF.

As a question... Where are people supposed to actually go?
1.7 million people, half under 18 years of age, live in a small '41 kilometres (25 mi) long, and from 6 to 12 kilometres (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide, with a total area of 365 square kilometres (141 sq mi)' (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg/224px-Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaza_strip_may_2005.jpg)

How does someone do what is suggested?
Then there's the fact that they aren't allowed to leave Gaza...
Food and water insecurity and contamination are also major issues (see the 2010 UN report 'Farming without Land, Fishing without Water: Gaza Agriculture Sector Struggles to Survive (http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/9A265F2A909E9A1D8525772E004FC34B)').

They have no where to go and Israel knows it. This way they can tell the UN and the USA that they warned civilians to get out.

How many innocent people will die today ?

Rocky_Shorz
15th November 2012, 06:53
word is when the ground war starts they will be cutting off all communications to the outer world so we are no longer getting updates...

one bomb killed an 11 month old child of a BBC employee


Satellite communications dish on the house, hit it as a terrorist target...

truth will win out
15th November 2012, 07:06
Live stream

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hanissalamah

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Israeli TV: Three people were killed after Gaza rockets hit southern Israel.

http://www.naharnet.com/

No numbers yet on
palestinian casualties.

Send positive energy and prayers.

modwiz
15th November 2012, 07:08
I'm sorry to be naive, but what is the significance of this war? I've read the thread, and feel the tone of all the posts, but I am confused. I haven't seen much about this on NZ news, but sometimes you don't see what you don't look for.

Palestinian bodies are good vote getters. Bibi wants to keep his job and he needs cover for his boy Romney not getting in. Also, very importantly, there were some injured Israelis from rockets that will need a few hundred Palestinian dead to make things right.

UPDATE: Three Israelis are now dead. The need for Palestinian dead will now need to be in the high hundreds. Maybe even passing one thousand. Things are in flux and people on both sides of this fight are suffering.

This war stuff really sucks, I have to say. All of this killing, so needless. I don't care what your ethnicity is. :frusty::pout::tsk:

astrid
15th November 2012, 08:38
Oy9ksFuEuro

Interview of Harry from Scott, from Spectrum Radio Network,
if my memory serves me... Scott was once a member here..

PathWalker
15th November 2012, 09:17
http://images.globes.co.il/Images/NewGlobes/Digital/Twitter3.PNG

Paul
15th November 2012, 09:17
Interview of Harry from Scott, from Spectrum Radio Network,
if my memory serves me... Scott was once a member here..
Scott still is a member :). His user profile is here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?169-Scott)

PathWalker
15th November 2012, 09:24
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111419500140191.html
Death toll rises in Israel-Gaza violence
Israel has continued to exchange fire with armed Palestinian groups in the Gaza Strip after assassinating the military chief of Hamas, which controls the territory.

The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli strikes on Gaza rose to at least 11 on Thursday. Also on Thursday, Israeli media reported that three Israelis have been killed in the town of Kiryat Malahi.

Launched on Wednesday, during a deceptive lull in almost a week of surging cross-border violence, Israel's began its air assault with the assassination of Ahmed al-Jabari, head of Hamas' military wing, while travelling in his car. Jabari's son was also killed in the strike.
The world reacts to the air strikes in Gaza

Hamas, reeling at the strategic loss of its top military commander, Islamic Jihad and other armed factions said they resumed rocket attacks against towns and villages in Israel's south after Wednesday's assassinatuion.

Israeli authorities said more than 200 rockets and mortars were fired in from Gaza as of Thursday morning, and its Iron Dome interceptor had shot down 27 of the missiles.

On either side of the frontier, people fled streets for cover.

Expecting days or more of fighting, Israel warned Hamas all its men were in its sights and weathered censure from
influential Arab countries with the Arab League announcing it was to hold an emergency meeting on Saturday and Egypt recalling its ambassador to Israel.

The United States condemned Hamas, shunned by the West as an obstacle to peace.

PathWalker
15th November 2012, 09:41
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/israel-holds-its-breath-for-hamas-decision-target-tel-aviv.premium-1.477888

Israel holds its breath for Hamas' decision: Target Tel Aviv? (http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/israel-holds-its-breath-for-hamas-decision-target-tel-aviv.premium-1.477888)
For the first time since the waves of suicide bombings in Israeli cities during the Palestinian uprising, Hamas could target Tel Aviv; such an attack could also jeopardize the political capital accrued by the prime minister and his defense minister.

Tel Aviv is holding its breath. This war is the same war, fought for years far to the south, out of sight and firmly out of mind. But abruptly, without warning, it threatens to become Tel Aviv's war.

And the decision rests with Hamas.

In one fiery stroke - the Wednesday Israeli air strike that killed Hamas' most influential and powerful military mind, Ahmed Jabari - the rules of the Holy Land's oldest established permanent floating chess game were, for the umpteenth time, utterly changed.

Rocked by the assassination, Hamas, its strategic hierarchy shredded, now faces a fateful choice. Pressed by a broad coalition of Gaza militants to retaliate and exact revenge, Hamas could order the launch of the Iranian-developed Fajr-5 missile, straight north.

For the first time since the waves of suicide bombings in Israeli cities during the Palestinian uprising, Hamas could target Tel Aviv.

The decision will not be a simple one, however. Hamas has always been hair-trigger sensitive to Palestinian public opinion, particularly in its birthplace and power base, the Gaza Strip. Gazans at the grass roots level have already made it known that they fear a reprise of the devastation and severe loss of civilian lives which Israel's Operation Cast Lead wrought on the Strip four years ago.

Israel, meanwhile, has made it plain that Tel Aviv is the trip wire.

"Today we attacked strategic Hamas targets with precision," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the press late on Wednesday. "We significantly harmed its capability to launch rockets from Gaza to the center of the country."

Defense Minister Ehud Barak added, "Most of the Fajr missiles have been hit."

There was a warning in their words, to Hamas. But there was an implied, if unintentional, threat to residents of Tel Aviv, as well. Hamas can still hit them, should it choose to do so.

Mindful of the significance of a possible attack on Tel Aviv, Israeli leaders spared no effort to head it off. Immediately after the Jabari assassination, the next phase of the newest war was unleashed, an onslaught to destroy Gaza launch bunkers housing Hamas' Fajr-5 missiles.

Wave after wave of Israeli air strikes were launched. Dozens of Fajr launchers were hit.

But not all of them.

As Wednesday night wore on, IDF civil defense officials began to be asked about whether Tel Aviv residents should take special precautions ("There have been nationwide drills, and citizens will know how to respond," one replied). Police and ambulance crews were placed on heightened alert, Israeli media reported.

And, perhaps inevitably, analysts noted the timing of the Jabari assassination, in the thick of an Israeli election campaign in which both Netanyahu and Barak are intent on holding on to their jobs.

As both well know, past wars - Cast Lead among them - have demonstrated that the longer, more complex, and more unresolved a military operation becomes, the more likely it is to claim its initially victorious initiators, among its victims.

Tel Aviv is the trip wire, as well, for candidates Netanyahu and Barak. If Israel's financial, cultural and media capital is successfully attacked, much of the political capital accrued by the prime minister and his defense minister, will suddenly, literally, go up in smoke.

panopticon
15th November 2012, 09:57
Interesting to see how the Gaza Strip region has gradually shrunk over the last few decades:


The History of Gaza's Security Zone

The security buffer zone along Gaza’s northern and eastern border came as a part-clause of the 1994 Oslo Accord, under which, the Israelis were to maintain a 0.5 Km wide security zone across the northern and eastern Gaza’s 58 Km border. This security zone occupied 29 Km2 (8%) of Gaza’s area to remain under the Israeli Army’s control.

When the Palestinian second Intifada broke out in September 2000, the Israeli Army expanded the area of the security zone unilaterally by few hundred meters (width ranges between 0.8 and 1.30 km). The area became off limit to Palestinians to build, cultivate, or just be there. By the time the Israeli Army completed their redeployment in Gaza by the end of 2005, the security buffer zone area stood at 61 Km2 (17%) of the Gaza Strip area under the Israeli Army occupation.

In June 28, 2007, and in a unilateral step, the Israeli Army expanded the security buffer zone along Gaza’s northern an eastern border to 1.5 Km width. Accordingly, the newly defined security buffer zone, occupy an area of 87 Km2 (24%) of the Gaza Strip area.
Source (http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/view.php?recordID=1118).

http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/gaza_buffer_new_07.jpg
Source (http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/gaza_buffer_new_07.jpg).

bennycog
15th November 2012, 10:00
we cannot just focus on trying to make it better. i think we need to shed a tear for those people that are losing their lives too..
it has always been a sensational frenzy of war "in sitcom value" by the media, it has to stop and the world has to see the true real stories, and soon i hope :(

deridan
15th November 2012, 11:00
Controlling Gaza in totality would be the wisest course, in preparation, if one was planning to hit Iran's nuclear facilities.

such nasty end tactical like solutions are disgusting and bloody

rather should have gone with the more outrageous solutions dictated by strtegic logic decades ago

kreagle
15th November 2012, 12:21
word is when the ground war starts they will be cutting off all communications to the outer world so we are no longer getting updates...

one bomb killed an 11 month old child of a BBC employee


Satellite communications dish on the house, hit it as a terrorist target...


Hey Rocky_Shorz,

Thanks for the updates and info on this unfortunate timely event that is unfolding before our very eyes. I have referred to these events, and the 11-month old boy, on the thread, 'Bible Topics and Questions', and it's titled,.....'Rising above the Fray'. Take a gander at it when you can, my friend.

Link: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48678-Bible-Topics-and-Questions&p=584076&viewfull=1#post584076


panopticon,

Thanks for you valued contributions on this, also. I originally looked for information on the Israeli 'leaflets', myself, but was unable to find it. I knew you would 'come through' with your determination, so thank you, very much.

Very 'trying and perilous times', my dear friends!


As always,.....your brother, friend, and servant,...........kreagle

Scott
15th November 2012, 12:32
Oy9ksFuEuro

Interview of Harry from Scott, from Spectrum Radio Network,
if my memory serves me... Scott was once a member here..


Yup, still a member :)

I will be talking Live with Harry again later on today to get any updates he has on the situation.

Scott

astrid
15th November 2012, 12:37
ahh.. there you are... GOOD WORK!

Please keep us updated.

Belle
15th November 2012, 12:41
Received a statement on this situation from the Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) in my email this am...found here: http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/jvp-statement-on-israels-operation-pillar-of-defense

At the end of the article they provide a link to the IMEU (Institute for Middle East Understanding) twitter page...found here: https://twitter.com/theIMEU/watching-gaza Their website is http://www.imeu.net/

Netanyahu knows his NLP...calling leaders and asking if Israel has a right to defend themselves. Of course, they have a right to defend themselves...but this is a case of "Goliath going after David". He plays the victim card over and over...but more and more people are no longer buying what he's selling and are awakening to the truth.

On-going prayers, focus and energy for the people of Gaza...and the Israeli people who do not support what their government is doing.

Enough is enough. This must end.

modwiz
15th November 2012, 13:01
Tis a pleasure to see you, Scott. Your work is not given the credit it deserves, IMO.

PHARAOH
15th November 2012, 13:21
What garbage....

Rocky_Shorz
15th November 2012, 19:09
Gaza is off the net, cell service still working

after launching on Tel Aviv, 30,000 reserves were called to duty

Egyptian tanks are rolling into the Sinai Peninsula

this is escalating fast...

Hamas leaders who snuck from Syria to Sudan are back on the air...



Egypt PM is going to Gaza today, is Hamas ready to be under Egyptian control?

161803398
15th November 2012, 21:45
Now, it appears the Moslem Brotherhood is getting involved. http://www.theird.org/issues/middle-east/muslim-brotherhood-mobilizes-for-hamas

panopticon
15th November 2012, 22:52
The way this is going seems to resemble the 2008 Cast Lead Operation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War) (aka Gaza War) with some calling it Cast Lead 2.0 however it is being reported (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS_ANALYSIS) that this conflict will escalate a lot quicker than in 2008 due to Israel's advanced weaponry (especially drones) and the changed political environment in Egypt (and the Middle East in general).

In 2008 there was extensive bombardment for a week and then Israeli ground troops moved in resulting in:
Israeli deaths: 14
Israeli injuries: ~500
Palestinian Deaths: ~1500
Palestinian Injuries: ~5300
Homes destroyed: ~4000
Infrastructure destruction: $2 Billion

Egypt has opened its Rafah border crossing with Gaza in anticipation of refugees and injured from Gaza.

Camilo
15th November 2012, 23:14
HAMAS BURNING... MIDDLE EAST ESCALATES

Wednesday, 14 November 2012 20:05
Written by Kerry Cassidy

SENT TO ME BY A SOURCE:

..It has also been reported that Egyptian commando's and tanks have moved into the Sinai Desert (unverified).

"14/11/12 The operation, called “Pillar of Defense”, has been launched by the Israel military. Many of the buildings in the downtown Gaza City are on fire after being attacked by Israeli warplanes."

And so it goes... Israel taking advantage of what? An opportunity horizon...?

Meanwhile, we have a coup in the American government,... going against the Bush Cabal. This involves high level generals and other military. They may be fighting to turn this ship of state around... Do not fall for the lies about extramarital affairs and other nonsense.

astrid
15th November 2012, 23:15
Anon has launched " OP Israel" as a response to the threat of the internet being cut in GAZA,
Here is one their statement..

" Israel has “crossed a line in the sand” by threatening to cut off internet and telephone service to the Gaza Strip, warned the hacktivist collective Anonymous on Wednesday. In an online statement, the worldwide group issued orders to the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and the Israeli government to cease and desist from their “terror upon the innocent people of Palestine.”

A tweet by Anonymous condemned Israel for breaking 65 United Nations resolutions without a single consequence, comparing it to Iraq, which was invaded and bombed for breaking only two resolutions.

Anonymous warned the Israeli government that they would be taking action to show their displeasure towards Israel, calling the Zionist regime “evil”: “Like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will not survive it unscathed.”

Further, Anonymous made a pledge to the Palestinians to support them: “We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you.

“Know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world.”

The hackers meant every word, it seems. A “Gaza Care Package,” containing instructions in Arabic and English to assist Palestinians in the event the Israeli government threatens their internet connection, was circulating on the internet yesterday, along with advice on evading surveillance and first aid information."

from here..

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13407422-anonymous-warns-israel-has-crossed-a-line-in-the-sand

And to update... the ground invasion has now started in Gaza

panopticon
15th November 2012, 23:41
A little known fact is that out of the ~1.7 million residents in Gaza ~1.1 million are registered as refugees with the UNRWA (of which ~500,000 live in one of 8 refugee camps).
The largest refugee camp is in Rafah (104,000 registered refugees Source (http://www.unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=77)) with the following demographics:
http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/image/camp%20profiles/gaza/demographic%20graphs/rafah-2011.jpg

Remember: over half the Gaza Strip's population are children (under the age of 18).

Belle
15th November 2012, 23:47
Tanks entered the West Bank about an hour or so ago. Bombing continues unabated...everywhere...refugee camps, even in open land where the freedom fighters try to set off their rockets, away from the people in case Israel retaliates.

IDF calling Palestinians to grab their location....Palestinians being told not to answer their phone if they do not recognize the number.

International UN school teacher killed...babies...pregnant women...children...elderly...no one is safe.

Feeling like I'm being called to be a witness to these atrocities...don't know why. Interesting.

panopticon
15th November 2012, 23:50
Tanks entered the West Bank about an hour or so ago.
Can you confirm that the West Bank is now under assault?

Belle
15th November 2012, 23:55
I heard it from Harry live on UStream...hopefully he put it into one of his recent videos.

I think there is a tweet somewhere on the IMEU twitter page...I'll check that out and get back.

panopticon
16th November 2012, 00:01
As Gerald Celente says: "When People Lose Everything, They Have Nothing Left To Lose, And They Lose It".

For information on the Israeli destruction of Palestinian homes in the West Bank over the last few years see here (http://www.unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=1001) (from the UNRWA).

Image showing the West Bank illegal Israeli settlements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement) (triangles):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Palestine_Map_2007_%28Settlements%29.gif/193px-Palestine_Map_2007_%28Settlements%29.gif
Full Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Palestine_Map_2007_%28Settlements%29.gif).

For a more detailed map showing Israeli road blocks and control regions of The West Bank (2006) see here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Westbankjan06.jpg).

astrid
16th November 2012, 00:16
Harry has lost internet,
but is updating on Twitter...

https://twitter.com/harryfear#

Latest update 6 min ago

"Three explosions in less than half a minute were audible in the West of Gaza City a few minutes ago. Drones continue. "

"Israeli Defense Minister approves summons of 30,000 soldiers for Gaza operation - report"

http://rt.com/news/reserve-soldiers-israel-gaza-805/

SilentFeathers
16th November 2012, 00:19
Keep an eye on Egypt....

astrid
16th November 2012, 00:25
Ok..here is the official Anon Statement

"Anonymous Operation Israel – Press Release Thursday – November 15, 2012 2:00 AM ET USA Greetings World — For far to long, Anonymous has stood by with the rest of the world and watched in despair the barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment of the Palestinian people in the so called “Occupied Territories” by the Israel Defense Force. Like so many around the globe, we have felt helpless in the face of such implacable evil. And today’s insane attack and threatened invasion of Gaza was more of the same. But when the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand. As the former dictator of Egypt Mubarack learned the hard way – we are ANONYMOUS and NO ONE shuts down the Internet on our watch. To the IDF and government of Israel we issue you this warning only once. Do NOT shut down the Internet into the “Occupied Territories”, and cease and desist from your terror upon the innocent people of Palestine or you will know the full and unbridled wrath of Anonymous. And like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will NOT survive it unscathed. To the people of Gaza and the “Occupied Territories”, know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight. We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the Internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world. As a start, we have put together the Anonymous Gaza Care Package – http://bit.ly/XH87C5 – which contains instructions in Arabic and English that can aid you in the event the Israel government makes good on it’s threat to attempt to sever your Internet connection. It also contains useful information on evading IDF surveillance, and some basic first aid and other useful information. We will continue to expand and improve this document in the coming days, and we will transmit it to you by every means at our disposal. We encourage you to download this package, and to share it with your fellow Palestinians to the best of your ability. We will be with you. No matter how dark it may seem, no matter how alone and abandoned you may feel – know that tens of thousands of us in Anonymous are with you and working tirelessly around the clock to bring you every aid and assistance that we can. We Are Anonymous We Are Everywhere We Are Legion We Do Not Forgive We Do Not Forget To the oppressors of the innocent Palestinian people, it is to late to EXPECT US

Belle
16th November 2012, 00:31
Cannot find anything in a video or a tweet about the West Bank at this point...so feel free to discount that info if you wish.

I've been kind of taking notes when I hear something that strikes me...and that was on my note sheet along with the UN international school teacher being killed.

astrid
16th November 2012, 00:32
19255

KInd of says it all really.

panopticon
16th November 2012, 00:49
Cannot find anything in a video or a tweet about the West Bank at this point...so feel free to discount that info if you wish.
I've been kind of taking notes when I hear something that strikes me...and that was on my note sheet along with the UN international school teacher being killed.
Report from RT:

Israeli forces are searching homes in the al-Arroub refugee camp in the south of the West Bank, Maan news agency reports citing witnesses. This comes after Palestinians threw a Molotov cocktail at an Israeli settler bus in the area, injuring one passenger.
Source (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/).
Also here (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=538042).

Scott
16th November 2012, 00:57
Harry has lost internet,
but is updating on Twitter...

https://twitter.com/harryfear#

Latest update 6 min ago

"Three explosions in less than half a minute were audible in the West of Gaza City a few minutes ago. Drones continue. "

"Israeli Defense Minister approves summons of 30,000 soldiers for Gaza operation - report"

http://rt.com/news/reserve-soldiers-israel-gaza-805/


Aye Harry went offline after telling people in Gaza NOT to answer their phones because Israeli intelligence was calling Gaza residents & activists for intel.

I was about to call Harry for an interview update but his Skype also went Offline.

Latest Tweets from Harry:

"I have been locked down. I cannot leave my building in Gaza City. I am without electricity and Internet."

"Just now I tried to leave my apartment for Press TV's studio for a live interview. As soon as I was outside something exploded in my street"

Gaza The Silence of a Nation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtIV1pKilBo


Scott

PathWalker
16th November 2012, 01:24
Conflict intensifies as rockets hit Tel Aviv
Netanyahu blames Hamas for violence as three die in Israel and the toll on the Palestinian side rises to 19.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/20121115135540965773.html
Tension is rising across the Middle East as Israel and Hamas, the Palestinian group which controls the Gaza Strip, continue to exchange fire amid the worst outbreak of violence since the Israeli assault on the territory nearly four years ago.

Three Israelis died in the northern town of Kiryat Malachi on Thursday after a rocket fired from Gaza hit an apartment building.

Israeli sources said two rockets hit Tel Aviv - one landed in the sea while another missile landed in an uninhabited area of Israel's commercial centre.

Air raid sirens sent residents running for shelter in Tel Aviv, a Mediterranean city that has not been hit by a rocket since the 1991 Gulf War.

Islamic Jihad, another Gaza-based Palestinian group, said that it had fired one of the rockets that hit Tel Aviv.

Late on Thursday, Israel began moving troops towards the Gaza Strip and Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, authorised the call-up of 30,000 reservists for a possible ground invasion.

At least a dozen lorries carrying tanks and armoured vehicles were seen moving towards the border area, while buses ferried soldiers.

While southern Israeli areas near Gaza have long coped with rocket fire, the attacks on the Tel Aviv area illustrated the significant capabilities that Hamas has developed.

Palestinian fighters had previously hit Rishon Lezion before but never reached Tel Aviv, roughly 70km north of the Gaza Strip.

panopticon
16th November 2012, 01:29
http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer3/2012/11/15/4272687/20121115_162123_wa.jpg
Source (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306350,00.html).

Tanks are being transported to the Gaza region and up to 30,000 IDF reservists have received orders to present for duty on Monday (Source 1 (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306350,00.html) & Source 2 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-extends-air-strikes-gaza-hamas-retaliates/story?id=17725048)).

SilentFeathers
16th November 2012, 01:32
I think this is really an important detail too....


Egypt's prime minister prepared to visit the Gaza Strip on Friday in an unprecedented display of solidarity with Hamas militants embroiled in a new escalation of conflict with Israel that risks spiraling into all-out war.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/16/us-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUSBRE8AD0WP20121116

panopticon
16th November 2012, 01:59
It appears that the IDF weblog (http://www.idfblog.com/) page is down atm (at least from my location).
Anonymous been busy?

IDF Official blog back up.
Wonder if they'll say it was due to "heavy traffic (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmUUuYV1MfBqU11lFada1gcucmsA)"?

panopticon
16th November 2012, 02:31
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Anonymous-Hacks-Israeli-Websites-Leaks-Data-in-Protest-Against-Gaza-Attacks-2.png?1352989168

Confirmed Anonymous hacks/defacements (others reported that I can not confirm):
http://danybarshay.co.il/home_page/
http://filtuna.co.il/
http://iconcept.co.il/
http://littner.co.il/
http://iiamo.co.il/
http://icomputers.co.il/
http://www.invito.co.il/
http://idanziv.com/
http://www.tel-aviv.gov.il/
http://www.rom.org.il/
http://www.datinet.co.il/index.html
http://www.dannydanon.com/he/
http://falcon-s.co.il/
http://www.kosherest.co.il/index.htm
http://e-yoman.co.il/var/
http://operator.co.il/var/
http://p-tzofit.co.il/var/
http://e-tzofit.co.il/var/
http://www.tzofit.co.il/var/
http://d3d.cwo.il/
http://mor-space.co.il/he/
http://deplus.co.il/home

Database dump available on web of:
http://www.connectionsmag.co.il/

norman
16th November 2012, 02:37
:israel::bs:

5BdqX87KcQ4

panopticon
16th November 2012, 07:24
The Egyptian Prime Minister has arrived in the Gaza Strip.
A cease fire has been announced for the duration of his visit.
Source1 (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2012/November/middleeast_November242.xml&section=middleeast) Source2 (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.html).

Update:
Al Jazeera reports that Israeli bombings are still under way despite Egyptian Prime Minister Hisham Kandil being in Gaza.

Israel initially denied bombing Gaza during the visit. (Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/16/us-palestinians-israel-ceasefire-attacks-idUSBRE8AF0I420121116))

panopticon
16th November 2012, 07:37
Interesting that this started following the Palestinians exhuming Arafat's body to check it for polonium...
Source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111216211764502.html).

Correction: They began clearing for the exhumation on the 26th November.

astrid
16th November 2012, 08:18
NPVarxgj04M

panopticon
16th November 2012, 09:02
Egyptian Prime Minister said 'This tragedy cannot pass in silence and the world should take responsibility in stopping this aggression' (Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/16/us-palestinian-israel-egypt-world-idUSBRE8AF0GN20121116)), 'Israel is to honour the treaties and conventions it has signed' and that the various factions in Gaza should unite (Al Jazeera).

Update:
Nov. 16, 09:09 GMT: Egyptian PM Hisham Kandil says, “What I am witnessing in Gaza is a disaster and I can't keep quiet. The Israeli aggression must stop.” (RT (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))

Violet
16th November 2012, 09:08
Lol at "starts".

panopticon
16th November 2012, 10:07
This situation has got more angles than a dodecahedron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecahedron).

Another contributing reason:



Israel threatens to 'topple' Abbas if Palestinians win statehood. (RT (http://rt.com/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/))



http://rt.com/files/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/abbas-mahmud-president-palestinian.n.jpg
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (AFP Photo / Abbas Momani)


Israel’s Foreign Ministry has reportedly proposed “toppling” Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas if a Palestinian bid for state observer status is approved by the UN later this month. It is also allegedly considering annulling the Oslo Peace Accords.

“Toppling Abbas’s regime would be the only option in this case. Any other option would mean waving a white flag and admitting the failure of the Israeli leadership to deal with the challenge,” the Foreign Ministry position paper obtained by AFP says.

The document warns of "grave consequences," including unspecified "unilateral Israeli responses.” It also says that Israel "must extract a high price from Abbas," and that receiving state status at the UN "would be considered a crossing of a red line."

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is reportedly expected to endorse the position paper and would then present it to the Israeli officials charged with formulating Israel’s response to the Palestinian bid.

A senior Israeli official on Wednesday told AFP that Israel is also considering annulling part or all of the 1993 Oslo Accords in response to the UN bid.

"The claim is that the Palestinians' appeal to the UN is such a fundamental breach of the Oslo Accords that it nullifies them. And if they are nullified, we are not committed to them either. The Oslo agreement specifically says that every dispute will be resolved through direct negotiations, not by going to a third party," the official said on condition of anonymity.

AP also obtained a list of diplomatic talking points where it is said that a decision to upgrade Palestinian observer status at the UN would "give Israel the right to reconsider and nullify" its 1990s interim agreements with the Palestinians.

Earlier Lieberman has already expressed his view that Abbas’s Palestinian Authority should be dismantled if the UN bid succeeds.

“If the Palestinians go to the UN General Assembly with a new unilateral initiative, they must know they will be subject to severe measures by Israel and the United States,” Israel’s Channel 10 quoted Lieberman as saying on October 24. “They are definitively destroying the chances of peace talks.”

“If they persist with this project, I will ensure that the Palestinian Authority collapses,” he is quoted as saying.

The Oslo I Accord was created in 1993 in an attempt to resolve the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict. It was the first face-to-face agreement between the government of Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

The Accord allowed for the creation of a Palestinian interim self-government, the Palestinian National Authority, governing parts of the occupied West Bank and Gaza. The Accords also called for the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from parts of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

In 1995, the Oslo I Accord was followed by the amended Oslo II, however neither promised Palestinian statehood.

The Palestinians are expected to present their bid for state observer status at the General Assembly on November 29, over opposition from the United States and Israel.

The bid comes slightly more than a year after the Palestinians failed to obtain full UN membership at the Security Council.

At the General Assembly all member nations have equal representation with no country having veto power.

The US and Israel keep insisting the Palestinians can win independence only through direct negotiations with Israel.

Source (http://rt.com/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/).

modwiz
16th November 2012, 10:16
This situation has got more angles than a dodecahedron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecahedron).

Another contributing reason:



Israel threatens to 'topple' Abbas if Palestinians win statehood. (RT (http://rt.com/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/))



http://rt.com/files/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/abbas-mahmud-president-palestinian.n.jpg
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (AFP Photo / Abbas Momani)


Israel’s Foreign Ministry has reportedly proposed “toppling” Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas if a Palestinian bid for state observer status is approved by the UN later this month. It is also allegedly considering annulling the Oslo Peace Accords.

“Toppling Abbas’s regime would be the only option in this case. Any other option would mean waving a white flag and admitting the failure of the Israeli leadership to deal with the challenge,” the Foreign Ministry position paper obtained by AFP says.

The document warns of "grave consequences," including unspecified "unilateral Israeli responses.” It also says that Israel "must extract a high price from Abbas," and that receiving state status at the UN "would be considered a crossing of a red line."

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is reportedly expected to endorse the position paper and would then present it to the Israeli officials charged with formulating Israel’s response to the Palestinian bid.

A senior Israeli official on Wednesday told AFP that Israel is also considering annulling part or all of the 1993 Oslo Accords in response to the UN bid.

"The claim is that the Palestinians' appeal to the UN is such a fundamental breach of the Oslo Accords that it nullifies them. And if they are nullified, we are not committed to them either. The Oslo agreement specifically says that every dispute will be resolved through direct negotiations, not by going to a third party," the official said on condition of anonymity.

AP also obtained a list of diplomatic talking points where it is said that a decision to upgrade Palestinian observer status at the UN would "give Israel the right to reconsider and nullify" its 1990s interim agreements with the Palestinians.

Earlier Lieberman has already expressed his view that Abbas’s Palestinian Authority should be dismantled if the UN bid succeeds.

“If the Palestinians go to the UN General Assembly with a new unilateral initiative, they must know they will be subject to severe measures by Israel and the United States,” Israel’s Channel 10 quoted Lieberman as saying on October 24. “They are definitively destroying the chances of peace talks.”

“If they persist with this project, I will ensure that the Palestinian Authority collapses,” he is quoted as saying.

The Oslo I Accord was created in 1993 in an attempt to resolve the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict. It was the first face-to-face agreement between the government of Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

The Accord allowed for the creation of a Palestinian interim self-government, the Palestinian National Authority, governing parts of the occupied West Bank and Gaza. The Accords also called for the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from parts of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

In 1995, the Oslo I Accord was followed by the amended Oslo II, however neither promised Palestinian statehood.

The Palestinians are expected to present their bid for state observer status at the General Assembly on November 29, over opposition from the United States and Israel.

The bid comes slightly more than a year after the Palestinians failed to obtain full UN membership at the Security Council.

At the General Assembly all member nations have equal representation with no country having veto power.

The US and Israel keep insisting the Palestinians can win independence only through direct negotiations with Israel.

Source (http://rt.com/news/israel-threat-palestine-bid-672/).

Abbas needs to go. The West Bank has never had a real leader. Someone who represented them. All of their leaders are in it for their own enrichment. Abbas deserves to be tarred and feathered.

If they dig up Arafat, they should dump used kitty litter into his casket. He was another shill.

panopticon
16th November 2012, 10:28
Article on the construction of 1200 settler homes and Palestinian plans to apply for non-member observer state status at the UN on 29th November 2012.


Israel pushing ahead with 1,200 new settler homes (RT (http://rt.com/news/israel-palestine-settlers-un-103/))

Published: 06 November, 2012, 22:43

Israel has announced that it will go through with the construction of more than 1,200 new homes in East Jerusalem's Jewish enclaves, warning Palestinian officials not to go seek non-member observer status at the UN.

The homes will be built in the Ramot and Pisgat Zeev settlements in East Jerusalem, and are among the 1,200 homes that Israel ordered fasttracked after a key UN body granted full membership to Palestine in November 2011.

The Israeli tender for the homes was broadly seen as a warning to the Palestinians not to continue with their plan to ask the United Nations to recognize an independent state of Palestine.

Israeli officials indicated that the timing of the announcement was meant as a signal to the Palestinians not to push ahead with plans later this month to ask the UN General Assembly to update their status to non-member observer state.

The 193-member body is dominated by countries sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, and so the petition is guaranteed to be successful.

Last year, Palestine failed to get the support of the UN Security Council to become a full member state. The Security Council said it was unable to “make a unanimous recommendation.”

An Israeli official told AP on condition of anonymity that if Palestine goes to the General Assembly, it will be a “blow to peace.”

But Saeb Erekat, a senior Palestinian official, condemned the Israeli decision. “What you need to stop is not the Palestinian efforts at the UN, what you need to stop are these settlement activities that are destroying and undermining the possibility of a two-state solution,” he said.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to resume negotiations without conditions, saying, “peace may be advanced only around the negotiating table and not via unilateral decisions in the UN General Assembly."

As a result of the Palestinian bid to join UNESCO last year, Israel sped up settlement construction and withheld funds to the Palestinian government. The US also withheld aid for Palestine, and Congress has threatened to do so again if it proceeds at the UN.

Palestine insists that its appeal to the UN is not meant to replace peace talks. The government's officials argue that after talks stalled four years ago, they must look for other ways to establish an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. Abbas has said he might try and restart talks after the UN vote.

Jeff Harper, from the Israeli community against house demolitions, told RT that Israel is not concerned with what the international community thinks and will push ahead with its campaign of building new homes in the occupied territories.

“Israel knows that whether Obama’s elected or Romney’s elected, its trump card is the American congressional support that Israel has from both political parties and it doesn’t care anymore.”

He continued, “Israel has completely abandoned the two state solution as it’s called and it’s completely imprisoned the Palestinians.”

Israel, unlike most of the international community, regards East Jerusalem as part of its capital. More than half a million Israelis have moved to the West Bank and East Jerusalem since the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. Israel withdrew its forces from the Gaza strip in 2005, but still controls all sea and air border access points.

Source (http://rt.com/news/israel-palestine-settlers-un-103/).

More on the Palestinian bid @ the UN here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20299149).

panopticon
16th November 2012, 10:34
Abbas needs to go. The West Bank has never had a real leader. Someone who represented them. All of their leaders are in it for their own enrichment. Abbas deserves to be tarred and feathered.

So you're saying he's like every other politician in the world... :p


If they dig up Arafat, they should dump used kitty litter into his casket. He was another shill.

I agree, it's the timing that's interesting.
If it is proven that he was poisoned (probably by Mossad) imagine the sh!t storm that might create...
I can't...

modwiz
16th November 2012, 10:58
Abbas needs to go. The West Bank has never had a real leader. Someone who represented them. All of their leaders are in it for their own enrichment. Abbas deserves to be tarred and feathered.

So you're saying he's like every other politician in the world... :p


Yes, except maybe the president of Uruguay.

Apparently, he will govern for food, LOL.
http://i.imgur.com/JkIp3.png
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=584479&viewfull=1#post584479

bennycog
16th November 2012, 11:23
Abbas needs to go. The West Bank has never had a real leader. Someone who represented them. All of their leaders are in it for their own enrichment. Abbas deserves to be tarred and feathered.

So you're saying he's like every other politician in the world... :p


Yes, except maybe the president of Uruguay.

Apparently, he will govern for food, LOL.
http://i.imgur.com/JkIp3.png
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=584479&viewfull=1#post584479

i love uraguay, its a fantastic country. quite friendly and the best beef i have ever tasted was there..

panopticon
16th November 2012, 12:08
Al Jazeera reporting rocket from Gaza has exploded in ocean off coast of Israel near Tel Aviv.
3rd rocket to reach Tel Aviv from Gaza.

Update:


Nov. 16, 10:12 GMT: The Guardian’s journalist Harriet Sherwood tweets that medics at the Gaza City's Shifa hospital say there are no more ICU beds. They are now trying to evacuate patients to Egypt.
(RT (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))

astrid
16th November 2012, 12:57
Harry is back live...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

Scott
16th November 2012, 13:00
Harry is back live...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

Yup and is sounds like there was an assassination attempt on him.

It also appears that Press TV was involved.

Press TV had asked him to come to their studio for an interview, they sent a car and he went out to look for it and no car was there so he went back inside. Press TV called him and said the car is waiting for him and so he went back out and used the light on his phone to look for the car and a explosion happened within 15 meters from where he was standing.

He ran back in the building and back up to his room.

Nothing can be proven of course but it does seem oddly coincidental.
That or his phone was tapped.

Scott

astrid
16th November 2012, 13:13
"Strange weapons are being used, causing strange body burns"...

modwiz
16th November 2012, 13:39
Harry is back live...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

Yup and is sounds like there was an assassination attempt on him.

It also appears that Press TV was involved.

Press TV had asked him to come to there studio for an interview, they sent a car and he went out to look for it and no car was there so he went back inside. Press TV called him and said the car is waiting for him and so he went back out and used the light on his phone to look for the car and a explosion happened within 15 meters from where he was standing.

He ran back in the building and back up to his room.

Nothing can be proven of course but it does seem oddly coincidental.
That or his phone was tapped.

Scott

Presstv is Iran. I wonder who in the area would want to make Iran look bad? I wonder who in the area could manage to control things? I tend to wonder a lot.

SilentFeathers
16th November 2012, 13:43
This may actually pull a bunch of anti-Assad fighters out of Syria....

...also, if Israel is busy with Hamas and now it looks as if they may possibly have to deal with Egyptian hardware on the south, they may find it more difficult to strike Iran....

It's a mess and looks as if it may escalate.

Krullenjongen
16th November 2012, 14:11
I feel like this thread is becoming a bit unbalanced not unlike the mainstream media.
You just have to take a look at the Honest Reporting website to know this is true.
http://honestreporting.com/
So i wanted to put some things in a different perspective.
Anyone who follows the news in the Gaza Israel conflict has to admit that when Israel strikes the Gaza strip it is most of the time a retaliation or reaction to something Palestinians did.
Israel has already been patient with the leadership in Gaza. Before the escalation of violence begun (before 23 October) the Palestinians had already fired about 700 Rockets at Israeli population centers measured from the beginning of this year. Every one easily forgets that they are firing at population centers with unguided missiles. If Israel would do that the world would be fighting for the microphone to condemn it.
If Israel reacts to rocket fire it is alway with highly sophisticated guided missiles that strike rocket stockpiles or arms depot's or smuggling tunnels. Trying carefully to avoid civilian casualties.
And just to add some more perspective this has been going on for many years.
Just imagine what it would be like to live in a city that is daily under a thread of missile fire and where you have to be prepared to seek shelter within minutes without warning. And this goes on not for hours, days, week or even months but for years.
19261

Oke Below a short timeline of the escalation.

October 23
An IDF officer is critically wounded by an explosive device while on patrol near the Gaza border fence. PFLP takes responsibility.

November 6
An explosion along the Gaza border fence injures three IDF soldiers. Palestinians later fire a Kassam rocket into southern Israel. The same day, Palestinians detonate a massive tunnel along the border, causing no injuries but knocking an IDF jeep sideways.

November 8
In a firefight with Palestinians, apparent IDF fire kills a 13-year-old Palestinian boy. Palestinian mortar shells lightly injure an IDF soldier along the border later in the day.

November 9
Palestinians fire an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep on patrol along the Gaza border, wounding four soldiers. Immediately afterwards, IDF tanks return fire into Gaza, killing five Palestinians and wounding at least 25. Palestinians later fire a number of Kassam rockets into southern Israel.

November 10-12
Palestinian terror groups fire upwards of 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israel. Islamic Jihad and a Salafi Jihadist group claim responsibility for a majority of the rockets. At least eight http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291432 in the attacks.

November 13
An apparent cease-fire is mediated between Israel and Hamas, with both sides conditioning their silence on the other side's halting attacks. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warns of future strikes, saying "I am responsible for choosing the right time to exact the highest possible price - and so it will be."

November 14
Four rockets hit southern Israel in the morning; the IDF says it is looking into the possibility the rockets were fired from Sinai.

Later Wednesday, the IAF assassinates Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades in the central strip. The IAF hits an additional 20 targets throughout Gaza, mostly targeting long-range rocket storage sites and reportedly assassinating a regional Hamas commander

So at the end of this escalation Israel said this has gone far enough.



P.s. i don't want to belittle the situation of the Palestinian people. I know that living in Gaza can also be very hard. I hope very much that this situation will be resolved soon and a time of peaceful coexistence will be given a change.

Billy
16th November 2012, 14:47
As always it is the innocent people of Palestine that suffer. The Psychopathic controllers on both sides wage war, while the people on both sides work for peace.

19265 19264


19266

I pray for peace in our world.

This Video is a call for peace in our world and for humanity to take a legal stance against the controllers.
To stand up and say NOT IN MY NAME.

http://www.gfc.uk.net/empowerment.php

Sammy
16th November 2012, 16:33
Interesting that this started following the Palestinians exhuming Arafat's body to check it for polonium...
Source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111216211764502.html).

Correction: They began clearing for the exhumation on the 26th November.

November 26th? Last year you mean?

Sammy
16th November 2012, 16:49
I feel like this thread is becoming a bit unbalanced not unlike the mainstream media.
You just have to take a look at the Honest Reporting website to know this is true.
http://honestreporting.com/
So i wanted to put some things in a different perspective.
Anyone who follows the news in the Gaza Israel conflict has to admit that when Israel strikes the Gaza strip it is most of the time a retaliation or reaction to something Palestinians did.
Israel has already been patient with the leadership in Gaza. Before the escalation of violence begun (before 23 October) the Palestinians had already fired about 700 Rockets at Israeli population centers measured from the beginning of this year. Every one easily forgets that they are firing at population centers with unguided missiles. If Israel would do that the world would be fighting for the microphone to condemn it.
If Israel reacts to rocket fire it is alway with highly sophisticated guided missiles that strike rocket stockpiles or arms depot's or smuggling tunnels. Trying carefully to avoid civilian casualties.
And just to add some more perspective this has been going on for many years.
Just imagine what it would be like to live in a city that is daily under a thread of missile fire and where you have to be prepared to seek shelter within minutes without warning. And this goes on not for hours, days, week or even months but for years.
19261

Oke Below a short timeline of the escalation.

October 23
An IDF officer is critically wounded by an explosive device while on patrol near the Gaza border fence. PFLP takes responsibility.

November 6
An explosion along the Gaza border fence injures three IDF soldiers. Palestinians later fire a Kassam rocket into southern Israel. The same day, Palestinians detonate a massive tunnel along the border, causing no injuries but knocking an IDF jeep sideways.

November 8
In a firefight with Palestinians, apparent IDF fire kills a 13-year-old Palestinian boy. Palestinian mortar shells lightly injure an IDF soldier along the border later in the day.

November 9
Palestinians fire an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep on patrol along the Gaza border, wounding four soldiers. Immediately afterwards, IDF tanks return fire into Gaza, killing five Palestinians and wounding at least 25. Palestinians later fire a number of Kassam rockets into southern Israel.

November 10-12
Palestinian terror groups fire upwards of 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israel. Islamic Jihad and a Salafi Jihadist group claim responsibility for a majority of the rockets. At least eight http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291432 in the attacks.

November 13
An apparent cease-fire is mediated between Israel and Hamas, with both sides conditioning their silence on the other side's halting attacks. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warns of future strikes, saying "I am responsible for choosing the right time to exact the highest possible price - and so it will be."

November 14
Four rockets hit southern Israel in the morning; the IDF says it is looking into the possibility the rockets were fired from Sinai.

Later Wednesday, the IAF assassinates Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades in the central strip. The IAF hits an additional 20 targets throughout Gaza, mostly targeting long-range rocket storage sites and reportedly assassinating a regional Hamas commander

So at the end of this escalation Israel said this has gone far enough.



P.s. i don't want to belittle the situation of the Palestinian people. I know that living in Gaza can also be very hard. I hope very much that this situation will be resolved soon and a time of peaceful coexistence will be given a change.

Don't be so naive... ever heard of "false flag" events? How hard would it be for a Mossad managed operation where from inside Gaza a few missiles are launched at Israel? My point is that no one knows. Do not take my point to mean I believe or think that some or most of these mini-conficts are started by one state or another, one group or another, one faction or another, one culture or another.

No one knows who truly starts what.

What all know though is that it take two to tango.

If I were president of the United States, I would pull all forms of US support for every single nation or region involved in this conflict - and I mean in every form! - and tell them to either grow up or obliterate each other. That would end it all real fast. Who cares if they all want to destroy themselves? Really! Who freaking cares... Let em. Let's end this BS.

NancyV
16th November 2012, 17:44
You are absolutely correct, Krullenjongen, thanks for your more honest perspective. For some reason the majority of the alternative type people automatically love to blame Israel and totally ignore the attacks on Israel by Hamas and others who continually lob rockets into Israel. Hamas attempts to target civilians randomly all of the time, the Israelis attempt to target Hamas operatives most of the time.

Yes, the Palestinian people who do not have a political agenda or the agenda to kill all Jews are caught in the middle and suffer because of the smaller percentage of those who continually attack Israel. However, Palestinians did vote to allow Hamas to take over control of their government, knowing full well that Hamas has zero intention to reach any kind of peace with Israel. So they are reaping what they have sown.

The attacks from Palestine on Israel have been going on for decades. My husband worked with Shin Beth and the Mossad several times in the late 70's and early 80's when he was a counter terrorist... and saw first hand how Hamas and the PIJ-Palestinian Islamic Jihad wage their war of terror. He had several encounters with them, which didn't turn out well for them. Anyone who thinks these attacks on Israel are "false flags" obviously is ignorant of the history in the area for the last few decades.

I actually find it rather humorous that so many supposedly peace love alternative types support a terrorist organization like Hamas and I can only think how effing ignorant they are. We will never know all the machinations that go on between those who are continually waging wars against each other and who they are ultimately controlled by, so picking one side over the other is futile. At the very minimum it would be a lot more intelligent to at LEAST read some different, more balanced accounts of history and know a bit more about what's going on before aligning oneself with obvious terrorist groups, but that's a bit much to expect I guess.


I feel like this thread is becoming a bit unbalanced not unlike the mainstream media.
You just have to take a look at the Honest Reporting website to know this is true.
http://honestreporting.com/
So i wanted to put some things in a different perspective.
Anyone who follows the news in the Gaza Israel conflict has to admit that when Israel strikes the Gaza strip it is most of the time a retaliation or reaction to something Palestinians did.
Israel has already been patient with the leadership in Gaza. Before the escalation of violence begun (before 23 October) the Palestinians had already fired about 700 Rockets at Israeli population centers measured from the beginning of this year. Every one easily forgets that they are firing at population centers with unguided missiles. If Israel would do that the world would be fighting for the microphone to condemn it.
If Israel reacts to rocket fire it is alway with highly sophisticated guided missiles that strike rocket stockpiles or arms depot's or smuggling tunnels. Trying carefully to avoid civilian casualties.
And just to add some more perspective this has been going on for many years.
Just imagine what it would be like to live in a city that is daily under a thread of missile fire and where you have to be prepared to seek shelter within minutes without warning. And this goes on not for hours, days, week or even months but for years.
19261

Oke Below a short timeline of the escalation.

October 23
An IDF officer is critically wounded by an explosive device while on patrol near the Gaza border fence. PFLP takes responsibility.

November 6
An explosion along the Gaza border fence injures three IDF soldiers. Palestinians later fire a Kassam rocket into southern Israel. The same day, Palestinians detonate a massive tunnel along the border, causing no injuries but knocking an IDF jeep sideways.

November 8
In a firefight with Palestinians, apparent IDF fire kills a 13-year-old Palestinian boy. Palestinian mortar shells lightly injure an IDF soldier along the border later in the day.

November 9
Palestinians fire an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep on patrol along the Gaza border, wounding four soldiers. Immediately afterwards, IDF tanks return fire into Gaza, killing five Palestinians and wounding at least 25. Palestinians later fire a number of Kassam rockets into southern Israel.

November 10-12
Palestinian terror groups fire upwards of 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israel. Islamic Jihad and a Salafi Jihadist group claim responsibility for a majority of the rockets. At least eight http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291432 in the attacks.

November 13
An apparent cease-fire is mediated between Israel and Hamas, with both sides conditioning their silence on the other side's halting attacks. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warns of future strikes, saying "I am responsible for choosing the right time to exact the highest possible price - and so it will be."

November 14
Four rockets hit southern Israel in the morning; the IDF says it is looking into the possibility the rockets were fired from Sinai.

Later Wednesday, the IAF assassinates Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades in the central strip. The IAF hits an additional 20 targets throughout Gaza, mostly targeting long-range rocket storage sites and reportedly assassinating a regional Hamas commander

So at the end of this escalation Israel said this has gone far enough.



P.s. i don't want to belittle the situation of the Palestinian people. I know that living in Gaza can also be very hard. I hope very much that this situation will be resolved soon and a time of peaceful coexistence will be given a change.

sdv
16th November 2012, 18:02
You are absolutely correct, Krullenjongen, thanks for your more honest perspective. For some reason the majority of the alternative type people automatically love to blame Israel and totally ignore the attacks on Israel by Hamas and others who continually lob rockets into Israel. Hamas attempts to target civilians randomly all of the time, the Israelis attempt to target Hamas operatives most of the time.

Yes, the Palestinian people who do not have a political agenda or the agenda to kill all Jews are caught in the middle and suffer because of the smaller percentage of those who continually attack Israel. However, Palestinians did vote to allow Hamas to take over control of their government, knowing full well that Hamas has zero intention to reach any kind of peace with Israel. So they are reaping what they have sown.

The attacks from Palestine on Israel have been going on for decades. My husband worked with Shin Beth and the Mossad several times in the late 70's and early 80's when he was a counter terrorist... and saw first hand how Hamas and the PIJ-Palestinian Islamic Jihad wage their war of terror. He had several encounters with them, which didn't turn out well for them. Anyone who thinks these attacks on Israel are "false flags" obviously is ignorant of the history in the area for the last few decades.

I actually find it rather humorous that so many supposedly peace love alternative types support a terrorist organization like Hamas and I can only think how effing ignorant they are. We will never know all the machinations that go on between those who are continually waging wars against each other and who they are ultimately controlled by, so picking one side over the other is futile. At the very minimum it would be a lot more intelligent to at LEAST read some different, more balanced accounts of history and know a bit more about what's going on before aligning oneself with obvious terrorist groups, but that's a bit much to expect I guess.


I feel like this thread is becoming a bit unbalanced not unlike the mainstream media.
You just have to take a look at the Honest Reporting website to know this is true.
http://honestreporting.com/
So i wanted to put some things in a different perspective.
Anyone who follows the news in the Gaza Israel conflict has to admit that when Israel strikes the Gaza strip it is most of the time a retaliation or reaction to something Palestinians did.
Israel has already been patient with the leadership in Gaza. Before the escalation of violence begun (before 23 October) the Palestinians had already fired about 700 Rockets at Israeli population centers measured from the beginning of this year. Every one easily forgets that they are firing at population centers with unguided missiles. If Israel would do that the world would be fighting for the microphone to condemn it.
If Israel reacts to rocket fire it is alway with highly sophisticated guided missiles that strike rocket stockpiles or arms depot's or smuggling tunnels. Trying carefully to avoid civilian casualties.
And just to add some more perspective this has been going on for many years.
Just imagine what it would be like to live in a city that is daily under a thread of missile fire and where you have to be prepared to seek shelter within minutes without warning. And this goes on not for hours, days, week or even months but for years.
19261

Oke Below a short timeline of the escalation.

October 23
An IDF officer is critically wounded by an explosive device while on patrol near the Gaza border fence. PFLP takes responsibility.

November 6
An explosion along the Gaza border fence injures three IDF soldiers. Palestinians later fire a Kassam rocket into southern Israel. The same day, Palestinians detonate a massive tunnel along the border, causing no injuries but knocking an IDF jeep sideways.

November 8
In a firefight with Palestinians, apparent IDF fire kills a 13-year-old Palestinian boy. Palestinian mortar shells lightly injure an IDF soldier along the border later in the day.

November 9
Palestinians fire an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep on patrol along the Gaza border, wounding four soldiers. Immediately afterwards, IDF tanks return fire into Gaza, killing five Palestinians and wounding at least 25. Palestinians later fire a number of Kassam rockets into southern Israel.

November 10-12
Palestinian terror groups fire upwards of 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israel. Islamic Jihad and a Salafi Jihadist group claim responsibility for a majority of the rockets. At least eight http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291432 in the attacks.

November 13
An apparent cease-fire is mediated between Israel and Hamas, with both sides conditioning their silence on the other side's halting attacks. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warns of future strikes, saying "I am responsible for choosing the right time to exact the highest possible price - and so it will be."

November 14
Four rockets hit southern Israel in the morning; the IDF says it is looking into the possibility the rockets were fired from Sinai.

Later Wednesday, the IAF assassinates Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades in the central strip. The IAF hits an additional 20 targets throughout Gaza, mostly targeting long-range rocket storage sites and reportedly assassinating a regional Hamas commander

So at the end of this escalation Israel said this has gone far enough.

P.s. i don't want to belittle the situation of the Palestinian people. I know that living in Gaza can also be very hard. I hope very much that this situation will be resolved soon and a time of peaceful coexistence will be given a change.

NancyV, you and are at opposite extremes of the political spectrum, but I completely agree with what you are saying here. We must move away from the good guys/bad guys perspective - both sides are a complex mixture of good and bad. Hamas seems to have hijacked the Palestinian cause for a destructive and aggressive agenda, but the Israelies were a part of causing this situation and both sides contribute to the destructive cycle.

I see it in my country, where violence and destruction are justified because there is a 'reason' or an excuse. This just feeds the growth of more violence and destruction.

I sympathise with the Palestinian cause, and support boycotts of Israeli products in my country, but I do not support the attacks from Hamas. How the heck can launching missiles that spread violence, destruction, fear and retaliation, solve problems? The Palestinian cause seems to have been hijacked by a bunch of thugs, and no matter what side you are on, a thug is a thug!

Sammy
16th November 2012, 18:10
Precisely my point sdv - thankfully someone got it. Keep it simple, make love... not war. If you wanna do war, take it to another planet... in fact, take it to another experiential realm for God sakes. justoneopinion

ahhh and to NancyV
We will never know all the machinations that go on between those who are continually waging wars against each other and who they are ultimately controlled by, so picking one side over the other is futile.

You got the point I hoped to make as well. Screw sides... let them resolve their own insane mess.

panopticon
16th November 2012, 21:35
Interesting that this started following the Palestinians exhuming Arafat's body to check it for polonium...
Source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111216211764502.html).

Correction: They began clearing for the exhumation on the 26th November.

November 26th? Last year you mean?

No, I mean in just over a week.

O65DUqahgEA

More reports on impending exhumation:
http://media.watoday.com.au/selections/yasser-arafats-body-to-be-exhumed-3793503.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/13/world/meast/west-bank-arafat/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/world/middleeast/palestinians-prepare-for-arafat-exhumation.html
http://www.news.com.au/world/arafat-exhumation-work-begins-as-part-of-murder-investigation/story-fndir2ev-1226516146461
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/30/yasser-arafat-exhumed-questions

Möbius
16th November 2012, 22:58
The favourite method that Israel like to use is to fire rockets into Israel (Mossad infiltration techniques) and make it look like Hamas (or any other arab group) to give them the excuse to pummel the palestinians. They use this technique every time peace talks are mentioned. The sadistic rasist leaders of Israel have only one outcome in mind for the future of Israel and it doesn't include Palestinians. The Israeli government puts the Afrikaan aparthied system to shame. Is it a conicidence that both the Afrikaan Aparthied system and the state of Israel were both created in 1948?

panopticon
16th November 2012, 23:08
I feel like this thread is becoming a bit unbalanced not unlike the mainstream media.
You just have to take a look at the Honest Reporting website to know this is true.
http://honestreporting.com/
So i wanted to put some things in a different perspective.
Anyone who follows the news in the Gaza Israel conflict has to admit that when Israel strikes the Gaza strip it is most of the time a retaliation or reaction to something Palestinians did.
Israel has already been patient with the leadership in Gaza. Before the escalation of violence begun (before 23 October) the Palestinians had already fired about 700 Rockets at Israeli population centers measured from the beginning of this year. Every one easily forgets that they are firing at population centers with unguided missiles. If Israel would do that the world would be fighting for the microphone to condemn it.
If Israel reacts to rocket fire it is alway with highly sophisticated guided missiles that strike rocket stockpiles or arms depot's or smuggling tunnels. Trying carefully to avoid civilian casualties.
And just to add some more perspective this has been going on for many years.
Just imagine what it would be like to live in a city that is daily under a thread of missile fire and where you have to be prepared to seek shelter within minutes without warning. And this goes on not for hours, days, week or even months but for years.
19261

Oke Below a short timeline of the escalation.

October 23
An IDF officer is critically wounded by an explosive device while on patrol near the Gaza border fence. PFLP takes responsibility.

November 6
An explosion along the Gaza border fence injures three IDF soldiers. Palestinians later fire a Kassam rocket into southern Israel. The same day, Palestinians detonate a massive tunnel along the border, causing no injuries but knocking an IDF jeep sideways.

November 8
In a firefight with Palestinians, apparent IDF fire kills a 13-year-old Palestinian boy. Palestinian mortar shells lightly injure an IDF soldier along the border later in the day.

November 9
Palestinians fire an anti-tank missile at an IDF jeep on patrol along the Gaza border, wounding four soldiers. Immediately afterwards, IDF tanks return fire into Gaza, killing five Palestinians and wounding at least 25. Palestinians later fire a number of Kassam rockets into southern Israel.

November 10-12
Palestinian terror groups fire upwards of 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israel. Islamic Jihad and a Salafi Jihadist group claim responsibility for a majority of the rockets. At least eight http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291432 in the attacks.

November 13
An apparent cease-fire is mediated between Israel and Hamas, with both sides conditioning their silence on the other side's halting attacks. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warns of future strikes, saying "I am responsible for choosing the right time to exact the highest possible price - and so it will be."

November 14
Four rockets hit southern Israel in the morning; the IDF says it is looking into the possibility the rockets were fired from Sinai.

Later Wednesday, the IAF assassinates Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's armed wing, the Izzadin Kassam Brigades in the central strip. The IAF hits an additional 20 targets throughout Gaza, mostly targeting long-range rocket storage sites and reportedly assassinating a regional Hamas commander

So at the end of this escalation Israel said this has gone far enough.

P.s. i don't want to belittle the situation of the Palestinian people. I know that living in Gaza can also be very hard. I hope very much that this situation will be resolved soon and a time of peaceful coexistence will be given a change.

G'day Krullenjongen,

Thank you for your perspective, and I would add, that there are never any winners in war, only survivors.

There is a long history of conflict in this region and ignoring the historical context would be foolish. As I have said, this present situation has more angles than a dodecahedron. Remember, at a physical level, this is all about Money, Control and Power (years ago I used to refer to it as the more accurate Currency, Control and Power but was accused of being a "Soviet sympathiser" because the initials were CCP -- go figure).

When looking at attacks it is easy to blame one "side" or the other. Remember, this (as with everything else) is multi-layered and multi-levelled. To create a dichotomy simplifies a complex issue (which is what we humans so like to do) for ease of creating an "enemy". So, as a means of balance, here are a number of attacks executed by Israel on the Gaza Strip from 13th October 2012 to 23rd October 2012:


13 October: Missile Launched, by IDF @ Northeast of al-Nusairat refugee camp .

16 October: Stationed inside watchtowers at the border fence in the vicinity of Beit Hanoun (Erez) crossing in the Northern Gaza Strip fired heavily at Palestinian and international protesters, who were on the Khayal plot of land, approximately 400 meters away from the border fence. The 18 protesters, including an international activist and a Palestinian farmer, were under fire for 20 minutes. No casualties were reported.

17 October: Israeli warplanes launched 5 missiles @ North Gaza Strip, caused damage to a house inhabited by 4 families consisting of 18 members, including 8 children and 4 women, the headquarters of the International Federation of Football (FIFA), Abdul Mohsen Hamouda religious institution belonging to the Ministry of Awqaf and Religious Affairs, and Bisan Entertainment City.

19 October: 19 October 2012, Israeli gunboats stationed off al-Waha resort, Northwest of Beit Lahia in the North of the Gaza Strip, opened fire sporadically at Palestinian fishing boats. As a result, fishermen were terrified and fled fearing for their lives. On 20 and 22 October 2012, IDF again opened fire on fishermen.

22 October: Israeli warplane launched a missile @ North Gaza Strip killing 1 injuring 2. IDF stationed inside watchtowers at the border fence, north of the Agriculture School, north of Beit Hanoun in the Northern Gaza Strip, opened fire at the farming lands and houses adjacent to the border. Neither casualties nor damage to property were reported.

23 October: Israeli soldiers positioned at the North Eastern border of the Gaza Strip launched a ground-to-ground missile, killing 1 and wounded 4. In another incident 1 killed and 2 others were seriously wounded by an Israeli airstrike.
Source (http://www.pchrgaza.org).

The source of the above is the 'Palestinian Centre for Human Rights' which is an NGO with operations in the Gaza Strip. I am unaware of their politics and only state these "incidents" to show that it is very easy to ignore that there is a human toll (both physically and psychologically) on all concerned. I also point out that these "incidents" I've posted above were mostly aimed at what Israel refers to as "Palestinian terrorists" (one person's "terrorist" is anothers "freedom fighter").

Thank you for your perspective on this NancyV and I hope that I haven't shown a Hamas bias (that was not my intent though I admit being "pro-Palestinian freedom of movement and self governance" which also produces problems because of historic animosity and individual freedoms verse group protection). My intent is to show that when people are controlled and fenced in (both physically and psychologically) it is hard to avoid conflict. I do not support the Hamas agenda, nor do I support the Israeli one. So, while Israel can pin-point its guided missiles with extreme accuracy the Palestinian missiles may not be as sophisticated nor is the same the level of surveillance available. The 'Iron Dome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome)' missile intercept system in Israel has destroyed many of the rockets coming from the Gaza Strip.

I find it interesting that the timing of this conflict, on one level, has many possible reasons and here are some:

The move for Palestinian non-member observer status at the UN;
The exhumation of Arafat's body to check for polonium;
The Israeli election in January;
As a defence of Israeli State sovereignty;
Reaction to Arab sympathy for Palestinians.

There are undoubtedly more reasons and I have only mentioned one level.

I remember seeing a video of a talk by a former Israeli soldier (drafted) who was stationed in Gaza. He said that they were not issued with binoculars but told to use the telescopic sights on their rifles. It didn't occur to him 'til later that this was a form of intimidation. It is one thing to be on the ground walking around with people looking at you through binoculars, another for them to be pointing a rifle at you...
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon
16th November 2012, 23:46
75000 Israeli reservists to be told to report for duty. (AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136), RT (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))
Extensive bombing continues in Gaza.
UN has voiced concern over number of children killed in Gaza. (RT (http://rt.com/news/line/2012-11-17/#id40558))
Rocket from the Gaza Strip have reached as far as Tel Aviv & Jerusalem (RT (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111615180851790.html)).

6ElcCTnhD2U

astrid
16th November 2012, 23:52
9SkN6PB8IOg

"Will the crisis in Gaza escalate? Should we expect a ground incursion?
What does Israel hope to achieve with its military assault this time?
How well is Gaza prepared for another conflict? And do the Palestinians
have the right to use military force to resist Israel's siege of Gaza?
CrossTalking with Norman Finkelstein, Dan Pollak and Harry Fear."

Tesseract
16th November 2012, 23:56
The media almost never links extremism with the government of Israel or Israeli institutions. Personally I do not understand how Israel’s apartheid policies can not be considered extremism.

Here are some quotes from Ovadia Yosef, the domestically respected leader of the Shas party which helped Netanyahu to form a stable governing coalition. Yosef is a personal confidant of Netanyahu, whom Netanyahu receives advice from on key political matters. The people of Israel regularly elect members of Shas to public office who sometimes hold very senior positions in government.

On Abu Mazan (Abbas) and the Palestinians:
“Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians.”

On Arabs:
“..you must give them missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones. May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them, and cause them to be vanquished and cause them to be cast from the world.”

On Muslims:
"They’re stupid. Their religion is as ugly as they are"

On giving aid to an injured non-Jew on the Sabbath:
“.. the Torah forbids violating the Sabbath for the sake of non-Jews”

On non-Jews in Israel
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the people of Israel.”

Imagine if a Palestinian religious or political figure said such things about Israel..

panopticon
17th November 2012, 01:01
Press releases from the US White House:



THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

November 16, 2012

Readout of the President’s Phone Call with Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel

Prime Minister Netanyahu called the President today to provide an update on the situation in Israel and Gaza. The Prime Minister expressed his deep appreciation to the President and the American people for the United States’ investment in the Iron Dome rocket and mortar defense system, which has effectively defeated hundreds of incoming rockets from Gaza and saved countless Israeli lives. The President reiterated U.S. support for Israel’s right to defend itself, and expressed regret over the loss of Israeli and Palestinian civilian lives. The two leaders discussed options for de-escalating the situation.


THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

November 16, 2012

Readout of the President’s Call with President Morsi of Egypt

President Obama called Egyptian President Morsi today to discuss the situation in Gaza. The President commended Egypt’s efforts to de-escalate the situation and expressed his hope that these efforts would be successful. The President expressed regret for the loss of Israeli and Palestinian civilian lives, and underscored the importance of resolving the situation as quickly as possible to restore stability and prevent further loss of life. The two leaders agreed to stay in close contact during the coming days.

astrid
17th November 2012, 05:54
Some of the latest tweets from Harry...

"Oh God help me and Gaz "
and "Explosions are hitting Gaza City and so close to my home. I was woken out of bed! Oh, world, stop Israel! "

He still has his LIVE feed, so you can hear the sounds, just before, loud bombing,
screams and ambulances.

Keeping Harry and the people of Gaza in my prayers.

This insanity has to stop, i hope the whole world is watching this,
and feeling the outrage.

panopticon
17th November 2012, 07:50
In an interview with Al Jazeera 'Palestinian journalist and Columbia Journalism School fellow Mohammed Omer' reports that:


There is a military buildup at the moment. We can hear unusual movements of bulldozers and tanks close to the border to the east of Rafah refugee camp, to the east of Khan Yunis and to the east of Gaza City... We don't know how much of these forces are going to be actually invading Gaza on the ground.

He also mentions that missile strikes have hit the office of Ismail Haniya, the head of Hamas government in Gaza, and the residence of the director general of the Interior Ministry as well as a number of mosques and the police head quarters in Gaza City.

Interview here:

950dtgGHfqw

Updates:

An Israeli soldier has been reportedly injured after a rocket hit the southern Israeli city of Ashdod (AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136))

Tunisian Foreign Minister has just entered Gaza via the Rafah border crossing with Egypt.

3 more Israeli soldiers injured in Southern Israel by rocket fired from Gaza (IDF Twitter feed).

Islamic University in Gaza targeted by Israeli air attack. (RT)

astrid
17th November 2012, 08:09
Harry was just saying that they have been bombing the smuggling tunnels between Gaza and Egypt, which is one
of the few ways they get any supplies in. And in the last few mins, another has been killed, toll now sits as 38 dead,
and hundreds injured.

David Trd1
17th November 2012, 10:20
Picked this up on VT....

Here is the OFFICIAL list of some of the ‘contraband’ not allowed into Gaza.
- sage
- cardamom
- cumin
- coriander
- ginger
- jam
- halva
- vinegar
- nutmeg
- chocolate
- fruit preserves
- seeds and nuts
- biscuits and sweets
- potato chips
- gas for soft drinks
- dried fruit
- fresh meat
- plaster
- tar
- wood for construction
- cement
- iron
- glucose
- industrial salt
- plastic/glass/metal containers
- industrial margarine
- tarpaulin sheets for huts
- fabric (for clothing)
- flavor and smell enhancers
- fishing rods
- various fishing nets
- buoys
- ropes for fishing
- nylon nets for greenhouses
- hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
- spare parts for tractors
- dairies for cowsheds
- irrigation pipe systems
- ropes to tie greenhouses
- planters for saplings
- heaters for chicken farms
- musical instruments
- size A4 paper
- writing implements
- notebooks
- newspapers
- toys
- razors
- sewing machines and spare parts
- heaters
- horses
- donkeys
- goats
- cattle
- chicks


Its not just inhumane,it suggests to me a cold,calculated and incremental malnourishment,dumbing down and radicalizing of an already radical pop.

Its abhorrent.Completely disgusting.

As is the violence,on both sides.

But if one wants to talk about justice,Palestine historically deserves it more.
Hamas were also funded and helped to be set up by Mossad at their inception to break the influence of the PLO.Many forget(or never knew)this.Im not saying that all of Hamas are Israeli agents,far from it,most believe they are truly fighting for the freedom of their people.All the Mossad need to influence decisions is a few in key positions that they have compromised and/or pay to control.The British/Mi5 famously did this to the IRA in the mid 80`s and began to steer a policy of bombing more populated areas with higher civilian causalities and thus playing into the hands of the British strategy.

I hope the situation de-escalates.

I really do.

Dave.

panopticon
17th November 2012, 10:25
The visit by the Egyptian Prime Minister yesterday and the visit by the Tunisian Foreign Minister today shows how the political climate in the region has altered since 2008.
The Tunisian Foreign Minister expressed solidarity with the Palestinian people and urged for an end to the conflict.

3wCk2DmZbQE

panopticon
17th November 2012, 10:58
Nov 17, 10:13 GMT: Unconfirmed reports that the IDF has begun artillery strikes on Gaza from tanks positioned on the border. (RT)

Updates:

'5th Iron Dome battery now deployed. It's in greater Tel Aviv area. Since Nov 14, Iron Dome interceptors hit 90% of their targets in sky.' (IDF Twitter Account)

'UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon has urged both sides to halt what he called a "dangerous escalation", and will visit the region in the coming days in an attempt to broker a treaty.' (ABC Oz (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-17/israel-bombs-office-of-hamas-prime-minister/4377726) & UN (http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=43521))

Article I came across (I don't know the site beyond this) showing why we should always look at the back ground of the "talking heads" who advocate a position. Here (http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/who_is_jonathan_sacerdoti_the_bbcs_go_to_man_on_ga za). (Remember: who, what, where, when, why and how)

panopticon
17th November 2012, 12:32
IDF Weblog seems down:
http://www.idfblog.com/

It was a bit odd, I was viewing something and went to look at something else and suddenly there was a warning page about DDoS checking and then to an offline/no cache message...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19291&d=1353156491

Was back for about 5 minutes but has been unavailable for about an hour now...

Krullenjongen
17th November 2012, 12:45
The favourite method that Israel like to use is to fire rockets into Israel (Mossad infiltration techniques) and make it look like Hamas (or any other arab group) to give them the excuse to pummel the palestinians. They use this technique every time peace talks are mentioned. The sadistic rasist leaders of Israel have only one outcome in mind for the future of Israel and it doesn't include Palestinians. The Israeli government puts the Afrikaan aparthied system to shame. Is it a conicidence that both the Afrikaan Aparthied system and the state of Israel were both created in 1948?

Do you have any reliable source for this claim???



Picked this up on VT....

Here is the OFFICIAL list of some of the ‘contraband’ not allowed into Gaza.
- sage
- cardamom
- cumin
- coriander
- ginger
- jam
- halva
- vinegar
- nutmeg
- chocolate
- fruit preserves
- seeds and nuts
- biscuits and sweets
- potato chips
- gas for soft drinks
- dried fruit
- fresh meat
- plaster
- tar
- wood for construction
- cement
- iron
- glucose
- industrial salt
- plastic/glass/metal containers
- industrial margarine
- tarpaulin sheets for huts
- fabric (for clothing)
- flavor and smell enhancers
- fishing rods
- various fishing nets
- buoys
- ropes for fishing
- nylon nets for greenhouses
- hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
- spare parts for tractors
- dairies for cowsheds
- irrigation pipe systems
- ropes to tie greenhouses
- planters for saplings
- heaters for chicken farms
- musical instruments
- size A4 paper
- writing implements
- notebooks
- newspapers
- toys
- razors
- sewing machines and spare parts
- heaters
- horses
- donkeys
- goats
- cattle
- chicks


Its not just inhumane,it suggests to me a cold,calculated and incremental malnourishment,dumbing down and radicalizing of an already radical pop.

Its abhorrent.Completely disgusting.

As is the violence,on both sides.

But if one wants to talk about justice,Palestine historically deserves it more.
Hamas were also funded and helped to be set up by Mossad at their inception to break the influence of the PLO.Many forget(or never knew)this.Im not saying that all of Hamas are Israeli agents,far from it,most believe they are truly fighting for the freedom of their people.All the Mossad need to influence decisions is a few in key positions that they have compromised and/or pay to control.The British/Mi5 famously did this to the IRA in the mid 80`s and began to steer a policy of bombing more populated areas with higher civilian causalities and thus playing into the hands of the British strategy.

I hope the situation de-escalates.

I really do.

Dave.

I don't know where they got this list but this is simply not correct.
See this Wikipage for the restrictions on import.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_allowed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza#Post-June_2010
A lot of the goods on this list may have been banned at some point but are not at the moment.


P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.
(source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292248 )

Krullenjongen
17th November 2012, 12:55
The media almost never links extremism with the government of Israel or Israeli institutions. Personally I do not understand how Israel’s apartheid policies can not be considered extremism.

Here are some quotes from Ovadia Yosef, the domestically respected leader of the Shas party which helped Netanyahu to form a stable governing coalition. Yosef is a personal confidant of Netanyahu, whom Netanyahu receives advice from on key political matters. The people of Israel regularly elect members of Shas to public office who sometimes hold very senior positions in government.

On Abu Mazan (Abbas) and the Palestinians:
“Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians.”

On Arabs:
“..you must give them missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones. May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them, and cause them to be vanquished and cause them to be cast from the world.”

On Muslims:
"They’re stupid. Their religion is as ugly as they are"

On giving aid to an injured non-Jew on the Sabbath:
“.. the Torah forbids violating the Sabbath for the sake of non-Jews”

On non-Jews in Israel
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the people of Israel.”

Imagine if a Palestinian religious or political figure said such things about Israel. (bold accent by krullenjongen).

Well they do all over the arab world, you may just have not researched this hard enough.
Take a look at this website:

http://www.memritv.org/

panopticon
17th November 2012, 13:00
P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.

Please read above posts.
I have been mentioning injured Israeli soldiers in Southern Israel and missile strikes on both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
I haven't mentioned deaths/injuries as it is unreliable from Gaza (though Palestinian deaths/injuries and damage are reported as being much higher than Israeli).
IDF Stats (http://www.idfblog.com/) on Missile launches from Gaza since 14th November are at 396 (though maybe they haven't updated these?).
AJ just said that Israel has launched 180 missiles on Gaza over night.

Evidently the stats on the IDF blog do not include rockets intercepted by the Israeli 'Iron Dome'. Missiles fired from Gaza @ 640 according to IDF Twitter Feed.
Israel has launched over 800 missiles @ Gaza (IDF spokesperson on AJ).

panopticon
17th November 2012, 13:43
'500 people are marching in a Nazareth parade to protest against the IDF operation in Gaza. The march was organized by Israel's Hadash party.' (RT)

astrid
17th November 2012, 15:16
PressTV interview.. video link..

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11/17/272804/situation-in-gaza-very-very-grave/

"The Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are now under “very very grave” conditions,
as the Israeli regime is conducting strikes on the defenseless civilians,
a political activist tells Press TV.

The Israeli regime has engaged in a series of airstrikes against the Gaza Strip.
At least 30 Palestinians have so far been killed in the offensive.

Press TV has conducted an interview with Harry Fear, an activist and filmmaker
from Gaza, to further discuss the recent Israeli airstrikes on Gaza.
Fear is joined by Carol Gould, an author and political analyst from London,
and Sara Flounder, of the International Action Center,
from New York."



And....

Anonymous hack hundreds of Israeli websites, delete Foreign Ministry database in support of Gaza

http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/

astrid
17th November 2012, 15:35
Hospitals in Gaza are almost out of medical supplies...

Harry is back live now..

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27084477/highlight/305346

PathWalker
17th November 2012, 16:13
Hospitals in Gaza are almost out of medical supplies...

Harry is back live now..

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27084477/highlight/305346

I wonder why the Egyptian Muslim brothers governors of mighty Egypt , having "open crossing" to Gazza. Are supporting and supplying their Muslim brothers in Ghazza with words and sympathy only.
Same support level from Turkey and the gulf states.

Where is the Arab world to support their Palestinian brothers.
The only real support Gazza residents receive are from Hizzbulah. Refiling their long range rockets stock. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4307083,00.html

I wonder if this is a real conflict?
Or maybe this is a conflict maintained by CPR. and the poor Palestinians pay the price.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/files/2008/06/wa_image_gaza_map_1.jpg

PathWalker
17th November 2012, 17:35
Latest truce efforts from the Arab League: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111715464384598.html

Read the following rational and assess how much sympathy and solidarity the poor Palestinians receive from their brothers.

Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood movement is closely aligned with Hamas, recalled his ambassador from Israel and sent his prime minister to Gaza in a show of solidarity.

But he is unlikely to substantially change Egypt's policy on its single border crossing with the territory, which Hamas wants to turn into a trade gateway.

Egyptian officials fear any such move would make them responsible for Gaza's impoverished 1.6 million people, a burden they believe Israel should bear.

And it would alienate Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas, whose Fatah movement Hamas ousted from the territory in deadly fighting in 2007.



Qatar is to give Egypt $10m to help treat Palestinians wounded in Israeli air strikes on the neighbouring Gaza Strip, state news agency QNA reported on Saturday.
If this support was not so pathetic, I would wonder why do they bother to publish this embarrassing statement.

Kiforall
17th November 2012, 18:08
Some people can tell the truth.....................

But only when they think they are not live on air.

After delivering Thought For The Day on Radio 4's Today programme, Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks is asked by Evan Davis about the current situation in Israel. Not appearing to realise that he's on air, he wearily suggests it's all to do with Iran before Davis and co-host Sarah Montague swiftly tell him he's on air. He responds by offering prayers instead of candour.

http://youtu.be/r8mdCWNY-g8

Zoe x

Carmody
17th November 2012, 18:27
Well, if Gaza is hit hard enough, and the border to Egypt is open, and it is such a bad situation that Gaza is incapable of being occupied by humans as a living space, then many might leave.

Which would be a very happy thing for what is hiding inside of and running Israel.

Then it might degenerate to being a real war zone, with 'mostly' soldiers occupying it (Gaza) ..and thus the IDF could be used to end it once and for all, and finally take over the last corner of actual Palestine, and turn that into 'Israel' as well, like they've done to the rest of Palestine, via forced annexation of the lands, since 1947.

That is likely the Israel insider type of dream scenario.

avid
17th November 2012, 18:51
I feel physically sick. Hamas rockets? Squibs in defense of vile US-funded warfare technology. How do 'we' know that MOSSAD didn't do a teeny-weeny 'false-flag' to set this off? Oh dear - the UN was about to consider Palestine as a 'non-member observer state'... That would never have been allowed by the Zionists at the UN. The Palestinians lands illegally occupied for many years. The creeping scourge of the Zionist state and the maddest of madmen Netanyahu at the helm of the demise of an illogical dream... Israeli's - on your own heads be it..... You have allowed politics and corporate greed to overcome your ideals. You have no rights to perpetrate these atrocities, or perpetrate them via other nations in your unjustifiable cause.
Cease fire and rescind your 'mind-controlled' animosities, and become humane at last.....
Phew - major rant over - for the time-being.....
I am NOT going to watch MSM news now, just the alternative media from many countries.

Sammy
17th November 2012, 19:05
I don't know where they got this list but this is simply not correct.
See this Wikipage for the restrictions on import.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_allowed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza#Post-June_2010
A lot of the goods on this list may have been banned at some point but are not at the moment.


P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.
(source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292248 )

I take no side in this - good points, Krullenjongen... that list for example - what is the source?

Gotta be fair in this thing.

Hope you don't lump me into the camp of everyone. I see both sides wrong but what do I know? Chester

¤=[Post Update]=¤



The media almost never links extremism with the government of Israel or Israeli institutions. Personally I do not understand how Israel’s apartheid policies can not be considered extremism.

Here are some quotes from Ovadia Yosef, the domestically respected leader of the Shas party which helped Netanyahu to form a stable governing coalition. Yosef is a personal confidant of Netanyahu, whom Netanyahu receives advice from on key political matters. The people of Israel regularly elect members of Shas to public office who sometimes hold very senior positions in government.

On Abu Mazan (Abbas) and the Palestinians:
“Abu Mazen and all these evil people should perish from this world. God should strike them with a plague, them and these Palestinians.”

On Arabs:
“..you must give them missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones. May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them, and cause them to be vanquished and cause them to be cast from the world.”

On Muslims:
"They’re stupid. Their religion is as ugly as they are"

On giving aid to an injured non-Jew on the Sabbath:
“.. the Torah forbids violating the Sabbath for the sake of non-Jews”

On non-Jews in Israel
“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the people of Israel.”

Imagine if a Palestinian religious or political figure said such things about Israel. (bold accent by krullenjongen).

Well they do all over the arab world, you may just have not researched this hard enough.
Take a look at this website:

http://www.memritv.org/

This is quite correct as well

Sammy
17th November 2012, 19:09
Hospitals in Gaza are almost out of medical supplies...

Harry is back live now..

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27084477/highlight/305346

I wonder why the Egyptian Muslim brothers governors of mighty Egypt , having "open crossing" to Gazza. Are supporting and supplying their Muslim brothers in Ghazza with words and sympathy only.
Same support level from Turkey and the gulf states.

Where is the Arab world to support their Palestinian brothers.
The only real support Gazza residents receive are from Hizzbulah. Refiling their long range rockets stock. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4307083,00.html

I wonder if this is a real conflict?
Or maybe this is a conflict maintained by CPR. and the poor Palestinians pay the price.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/files/2008/06/wa_image_gaza_map_1.jpg

At least someone here sees a bit of the light - awesome post and point.

Limor Wolf
17th November 2012, 19:39
Well, if Gaza is hit hard enough, and the border to Egypt is open, and it is such a bad situation that Gaza is incapable of being occupied by humans as a living space, then many might leave.

Which would be a very happy thing for what is hiding inside of and running Israel.

Then it might degenerate to being a real war zone, with 'mostly' soldiers occupying it (Gaza) ..and thus the IDF could be used to end it once and for all, and finally take over the last corner of actual Palestine, and turn that into 'Israel' as well, like they've done to the rest of Palestine, via forced annexation of the lands, since 1947.

That is likely the Israel insider type of dream scenario.

Carmody, I have great respect for you, always, but I have to respond to what you said above which I believe is quite exaggerated. Three of the Israeli leaders - Binyamin Nethanyahu, Stanley Fischer and Shimon Peres are members of CFR, Bilderberg, Knights of Malta and other 'goods' of the Illuminati. They are serving the cabal and their allegiance is to the greater agenda of controling earth and its citizens, this is what is 'hiding inside and running Israel', and you can be sure they have some blood brothers on the palestinians side as well.

I feel that many on this thread are too busy focusing on the micro perspective of things. sorrow, suffer and pain are public domain. The now Israeli citizens and the then jews were settled in this piece of land for thousands of years. the notion of 'palestenians people' did not even exist back then and it is relatively new. None of the large number of Arab states which are surrounding Israel were ever interested in helping their brethren, but only use them politically.

The palestinians are refugees from neighboring arab countries and elsewhere that found this piece of land as individuals and were never gathered as a nation or 'people'. They had nothing in common, not a shared language, not even a religion, (some are christians, most are muslims) until the founding of the state of Israel. none of the other countries want to accept them or to have anything to do with them (for money and political reasons), it is very true that many arab houses and villages were taken and they were dispossessed of their rights on their land plots, history shows that jews and arabs could not co-exist living together (such is our mad world!), and yes,this is a crime done by the state of Israel.

Now,today, most Israeli soliders and people are willing to 'defend' the country if needed considering the constant threats of eridiction (and of course, it is all coordinated through a strong brainwashing) but, Israelis do not wish at all to occupy Gaza or to take the land, the psychology that is done on the 'little citizen' is a one of defence and not one of occupation, even if that is the outcome sometimes. the military and government are based on the people, and the people will not let that happen.

We all need to remember that this is all orchatrated by the hidden third hand, not by 'jews' or 'palestinians'. we are all brothers, human beings, who deserve to live decent life (and much more) but we have another hand that rocks the cradle, and we fail to notice it. this is a global problem as we all know, nothing that impacts only one part of the world.


I think that saying that causing the palestinians to flee from gaza is 'the Israeli insiders type of dream scenario', is a little harsh, not even most of the government think so, maybe only those three stooges and their handlers. I think many here will be surprised (for the good) to find out how quite a lot of Israelis feel normal compassion towards the palestenians and their difficulties in life. all in all we're all in the same plane and it currently bow downwards. we all want to survive.

PathWalker
17th November 2012, 20:06
Three of the Israeli leaders - Binyamin Nethanyahu, Stanley Fischer and Shimon Peres are members of CFR, Bilderberg, Knights of Malta and other 'goods' of the Illuminaty. They are serving the cabal and their allegiance is to the greater agenda of controling earth and its citizens, this is what is 'hiding inside and running Israel', and you can be sure they have some blood brothers on the palestinians side as well.

Excelent point taken.
I would add to the honorary list - Ehud Barak the defense minister and former chief of stuff. I believe he is one of the master minds behind the current drama. His political career is destroyed. He must turn the table in order to return to public politics.

modwiz
17th November 2012, 21:17
I think many here will be surprised (for the good) to find out how quite a lot of Israelis feel normal compassion towards the palestenians and their difficulties in life. all in all we're all in the same plane and it currently bow downwards. we all want to survive.

Agreed. I think this group of Israelis is the psychological target. If enough rockets can be made to come into Israel and kill some people, perhaps this group will be swayed from sympathy for their Arab brothers and sisters. This kind of thinking is very much the kind of cynicism practiced by the globalists.

Limor Wolf
17th November 2012, 21:43
I think many here will be surprised (for the good) to find out how quite a lot of Israelis feel normal compassion towards the palestenians and their difficulties in life. all in all we're all in the same plane and it currently bow downwards. we all want to survive.

Agreed. I think this group of Israelis is the psychological target. If enough rockets can be made to come into Israel and kill some people, perhaps this group will be swayed from sympathy for their Arab brothers and sisters. This kind of thinking is very much the kind of cynicism practiced by the globalists.

There are quite many though, not a small group. The thing is, the government is losing its grip on society, they are rushing towards completing their agenda and by doing so, they arouse the suspicions of the people.


This was advertised in the newspaper today (I translated it from Hebrew, so my appologies for the limping English) -


Thoughts from inside the shelter

By Gilaad Neeman, 28, A teacher, Israel


"We live in sub - state within Israel, where the real fear is not the existential threat, but the threat of social security. Health and welfare systems are collapsing and the younger generation is losing the trust in government.

A week ago I was preoccupied with my students' grades. among all these thoughts occurred the unbelievable. On Sunday, the beginning of the week, early afternoon alarm sounded in Beer sheba during the school day. Hundreds of students ran screaming in fear into the protected spaces. Teachers acted vigorously and functioned flawlessly.

It reminded me that Israel is not one state, and also not two countries. Israel is holding an unspecified number of sub - states, each of which has its own characteristics and each one can be divided any way someone wants. one can look at religious, ethnic classifications, or even those arising from political views.

The situation is that this country is under the continuing security threat for more than ten years. When I know that an alarm can break any minute, when sleeping in bed becomes a game of survival, my students lose faith in man in general and in the country that suppose to care for them.

It is not only about the security threat which constantly exists, it is the other aspects in our life, such as health, education and welfare which are not functioning so well. Somehow it seemes that everything makes a complete failure. There is no sense of security, no well functioning health system, social services budgets are overloaded and are being detained along the way.

When the cannons roar, and shells are falling, democracy sits quietly on the side. When millions of people feel a threat to their physical security, they are less interested about the other, they are under an existential threat. When there is no support of the establishment in life, there is no faith in government. There is a feeling that no one cares, but I care and this is why I feel the need to say it.

In Israel children grow where they are not experiencing democracy and therefore do not understand what it is. It is reasonable to assume that when they grow up, they may not want to live here. Fear does not happen only when there is bombardments, the concerns appear especially when everything is quiet.

You can not promote 'seasonal sales' for security, welfare, equality of burden and education for all, it can not be done through campaigns or on billboards. wars and election campaigns are like the end of season 'sales', In retrospect, you find that you always pay the same price.
A country that can not meet the needs of its citizens, can not maintain the democratic system no matter what type of show it broadcasts on the news.
I believe we can do otherwise."

modwiz
17th November 2012, 22:04
I think many here will be surprised (for the good) to find out how quite a lot of Israelis feel normal compassion towards the palestenians and their difficulties in life. all in all we're all in the same plane and it currently bow downwards. we all want to survive.

Agreed. I think this group of Israelis is the psychological target. If enough rockets can be made to come into Israel and kill some people, perhaps this group will be swayed from sympathy for their Arab brothers and sisters. This kind of thinking is very much the kind of cynicism practiced by the globalists.

There are quite many though, not a small group. The thing is, the government is losing its grip on society, they are rushing towards completing their agenda and by doing so, they arouse the suspicions of the people.


This was advertised in the newspaper today (I translated it from Hebrew, so my appologies for the limping English) -


Thoughts from inside the shelter

By Gilaad Neeman, 28, A teacher, Israel


"We live in sub - state within Israel, where the real fear is not the existential threat, but the threat of social security. Health and welfare systems are collapsing and the younger generation is losing the trust in government.

A week ago I was preoccupied with my students' grades. among all these thoughts occurred the unbelievable. On Sunday, the beginning of the week, early afternoon alarm sounded in Beer sheba during the school day. Hundreds of students ran screaming in fear into the protected spaces. Teachers acted vigorously and functioned flawlessly.

It reminded me that Israel is not one state, and also not two countries. Israel is holding an unspecified number of sub - states, each of which has its own characteristics and each one can be divided any way someone wants. one can look at religious, ethnic classifications, or even those arising from political views.

The situation is that this country is under the continuing security threat for more than ten years. When I know that an alarm can break any minute, when sleeping in bed becomes a game of survival, my students lose faith in man in general and in the country that suppose to care for them.

It is not only about the security threat which constantly exists, it is the other aspects in our life, such as health, education and welfare which are not functioning so well. Somehow it seemes that everything makes a complete failure. There is no sense of security, no well functioning health system, social services budgets are overloaded and are being detained along the way.

When the cannons roar, and shells are falling, democracy sits quietly on the side. When millions of people feel a threat to their physical security, they are less interested about the other, they are under an existential threat. When there is no support of the establishment in life, there is no faith in government. There is a feeling that no one cares, but I care and this is why I feel the need to say it.

In Israel children grow where they are not experiencing democracy and therefore do not understand what it is. It is reasonable to assume that when they grow up, they may not want to live here. Fear does not happen only when there is bombardments, the cobcerns appear especially when everything is quiet.

You can not promote 'seasonal sales' for security, welfare, equality of burden and education for all, it can not be done through campaigns or on billboards. wars and election campaigns are like the end of season 'sales', In retrospect, you find that you always pay the same price.
A country that can not meet the needs of its citizens, can not maintain the democratic system no matter what type of show it broadcasts on the news.
I believe we can do otherwise."

Thank you for your reply and heartfelt intelligence on this very painful subject for any human. Every angle of this is a unpleasant. I want us all to find the peace and dialogue we all deserve. We, the people, want this for each other.

panopticon
17th November 2012, 22:32
Well said Limor.
There are multiple layers (both on the micro and macro) and multiple levels.
There have been a number of protests by Israeli citizens against the attack on Gaza.

panopticon
17th November 2012, 22:36
Maybe this idiocy will be over soon:

Nov. 17, 20:59 GMT: Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi told reporters his government was in touch with both Israelis and Palestinians and there were indications they could "soon" reach a truce.
Nov. 17, 21:17 GMT: RT's correspondent in Tel Aviv Paula Slier says some Arab sources report an Israeli emmisary is en route to Cairo to review a draft agreement for a ceasefire that begins tonight.
Nov. 17, 19:58 GMT: The IDF has agreed to open the Kerem Shalom Crossing on Sunday to permit deliveries of food and humanitarian supplies to Gaza.
(RT (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))

panopticon
18th November 2012, 00:18
Paul Danahar, BBC Middle East Bureau Chief in Gaza , reports:
'Hard to tell but I think #Israel is firing on #gaza from the sea judging from the three pops followed shortly by three impacts'
'There's now been several bursts of what i think are artillery fired from sea into #gaza . It's too dark to see from where. Here comes more!'
'Four more shells, i think from #Israeli navy hitting #Gaza and another 5. This is an escalation from previous nights attacks.'
Source (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Twitter Feed.

Also unconfirmed reports that a media centre (Shawwa tower?) in Gaza has been hit, 6 injured journalists (Now confirmed (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=538829)).

Update:

'Nov. 18, 01:25 GMT: At least six journalists have been injured after an Israeli airstrike hit a complex of media offices in Gaza City. The Al-Shawa complex houses a number of foreign and Palestinian media organizations, according to the Maan news agency which has its Gaza headquarters there. Meanwhile the IDF has reported the Israeli Navy targeted “several Hamas terror sites” in the Gaza Strip.' (RT)


"At least six journalists were wounded, with minor and moderate injuries, when Israeli warplanes hit the al-Quds TV office in the Showa and Housari building in the Rimal neighbourhood of Gaza City," health ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said.
Witnesses reported extensive damage to the building, and said journalists had evacuated after an initial strike, which was followed by at least two more on the site.
The injured were taken to Gaza City's Shifa hospital. One journalist lost his leg in the attack, Qudra said.
Source (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/israeli-strike-hits-gaza-media-building) AJ

David Trd1
18th November 2012, 00:35
The favourite method that Israel like to use is to fire rockets into Israel (Mossad infiltration techniques) and make it look like Hamas (or any other arab group) to give them the excuse to pummel the palestinians. They use this technique every time peace talks are mentioned. The sadistic rasist leaders of Israel have only one outcome in mind for the future of Israel and it doesn't include Palestinians. The Israeli government puts the Afrikaan aparthied system to shame. Is it a conicidence that both the Afrikaan Aparthied system and the state of Israel were both created in 1948?

Do you have any reliable source for this claim???



Picked this up on VT....

Here is the OFFICIAL list of some of the ‘contraband’ not allowed into Gaza.
- sage
- cardamom
- cumin
- coriander
- ginger
- jam
- halva
- vinegar
- nutmeg
- chocolate
- fruit preserves
- seeds and nuts
- biscuits and sweets
- potato chips
- gas for soft drinks
- dried fruit
- fresh meat
- plaster
- tar
- wood for construction
- cement
- iron
- glucose
- industrial salt
- plastic/glass/metal containers
- industrial margarine
- tarpaulin sheets for huts
- fabric (for clothing)
- flavor and smell enhancers
- fishing rods
- various fishing nets
- buoys
- ropes for fishing
- nylon nets for greenhouses
- hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
- spare parts for tractors
- dairies for cowsheds
- irrigation pipe systems
- ropes to tie greenhouses
- planters for saplings
- heaters for chicken farms
- musical instruments
- size A4 paper
- writing implements
- notebooks
- newspapers
- toys
- razors
- sewing machines and spare parts
- heaters
- horses
- donkeys
- goats
- cattle
- chicks


Its not just inhumane,it suggests to me a cold,calculated and incremental malnourishment,dumbing down and radicalizing of an already radical pop.

Its abhorrent.Completely disgusting.

As is the violence,on both sides.

But if one wants to talk about justice,Palestine historically deserves it more.
Hamas were also funded and helped to be set up by Mossad at their inception to break the influence of the PLO.Many forget(or never knew)this.Im not saying that all of Hamas are Israeli agents,far from it,most believe they are truly fighting for the freedom of their people.All the Mossad need to influence decisions is a few in key positions that they have compromised and/or pay to control.The British/Mi5 famously did this to the IRA in the mid 80`s and began to steer a policy of bombing more populated areas with higher civilian causalities and thus playing into the hands of the British strategy.

I hope the situation de-escalates.

I really do.

Dave.

I don't know where they got this list but this is simply not correct.
See this Wikipage for the restrictions on import.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_allowed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza#Post-June_2010
A lot of the goods on this list may have been banned at some point but are not at the moment.


P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.
(source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292248 )

I mentioned at the top of the post that i picked it up on VT (Veterans today),it was posted in the comment section.i also said it ''suggests'' a policy of malnourishment.The implication of that word being ''if'' it is true.No-where in the post did i categorically state ''This is a Fact''.It was simply speculation and an extrapolation from there.

I also stated my disgust at the violence on both sides.

For some perspective on wikipedia here is what they say about 911 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

I`m not biest either way,but the reality on the ground is very different from what we are lead to believe looking from afar.
There have been many,many rockets attacks but how many deaths on both sides?...where are the figures on that i believe that the Palestinians pay in there blood much more than the Israelis ever do or had.

Home made rockets Fired in desperation against probably the most Cohesive army and Air force in the world,not to mention an undeclared nuclear power which tramples all over international law and has borderline racists policies towards arabs as a whole.

Objective perspective is a fine thing......

And needed more than ever in a situation such as this.

Like i said before i hope it de-escalates so that the ordinary people dont have to suffer more..

Peace

Dave

Tesseract
18th November 2012, 01:39
Would we have sat back and not taken sides as the Germans invaded and occupied Europe, just because at some point the people resisting the imperialists killed civilians or committed other crimes? Would we have sat back in our physical safety and moral pomposity and said, ‘you’re both just as bad as each other’?

When the ANC was battling apartheid forces in South Africa, was it right for people so sit back and not take a position because some figures in the ANC committed crimes throughout their long struggle?

Should we have forever ignored the outrages perpetrated against the people of Timor Leste because at times the resistance fighters from Fretlin took cover amongst the population?

Take a look at the dispossession and the chronic injustices that have been inflicted upon the Palestinian people for decades, and ask yourself if just maybe they deserve our support instead of our neutrality.




P.S. With regard to my previous post I was referring to the western media, from now on I will try and be more specific so that people don’t get confused.

panopticon
18th November 2012, 02:59
The change in Arab League rhetoric regards Israel shows, to some extent, the impact of the changes in the Middle East over the last year.
In particular their saying they would stop the Israeli blockade of Gaza has broader ramifications (AJ (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111715464384598.html)).

Update:

Israel News Agency (http://israelnewsagency.com/) appears down: Reporting 503 Error (Appears to be sort of working now...).
The IDF Blog (http://www.idfblog.com/) stills appear to be down (at least from my location [appears to be a temporary Word Press now]).
Aerial bombing has continued (F-16/drones/missiles) and the Israeli Navy is shelling Gaza (unconfirmed that they Navy is searching for the bodies of pilots from downed F-16). (AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/gaza-journalist-navy-shooting-missiles))
Paul Danahar reports: 'Two big airstrikes near our building in Gaza by Israel & the drones are back' (Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed)

Unrelated to Gaza/Israel: Ebola outbreak in Uganda claims 3, 15 being monitored. (IBT (http://www.ibtimes.com/deadly-ebola-central-africas-recurring-menace-hits-uganda-again-883986), AP (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5geepLywm5ASMnqwQl8W70SOAQ8Yw?docId=f81f2b795 4154db3af6c36a54588fd86))

panopticon
18th November 2012, 07:07
No rockets or mortars have been launched from Gaza since 22:00 GMT (~9 Hours). (AJ)

2nd attack on media building, this time in Al Saraya. Journalists have been injured. (AJ)

Paul Danahar (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) is asking: 'If targets last night were carefully chosen why were 2 buildings holding journalists hit in Gaza?'
Good question.


Updates:
Missiles have resumed being fired from Gaza. A building in Ashkelon has been hit, injuring 2. (Ynet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4307469,00.html))

Crispian Balmer (http://blogs.reuters.com/crispian-balmer/) reports via Twitter: 'Israel fires artillery into Syria in response to gunfire aimed at its troops in Golan Heights. Says may have killed Syrian soldiers.' (Twitter (https://twitter.com/crispiandjb) -- feed)

Violet
18th November 2012, 08:13
Abbas needs to go. The West Bank has never had a real leader. Someone who represented them. All of their leaders are in it for their own enrichment. Abbas deserves to be tarred and feathered.

So you're saying he's like every other politician in the world... :p


If they dig up Arafat, they should dump used kitty litter into his casket. He was another shill.

I agree, it's the timing that's interesting.
If it is proven that he was poisoned (probably by Mossad) imagine the sh!t storm that might create...
I can't...

Seriously, if you were vile enough to poison a man. Would you put him/let him be put back in his grave?

panopticon
18th November 2012, 09:22
Statement made by the Foreign Press Association (http://www.fpa.org.il) concerning the apparent targeting by the IDF of buildings occupied by journalists:


The Foreign Press Association is concerned at the attacks by the Israeli IDF on buildings housing journalists in Gaza last night.
The IDF stated this morning that “The sites that we targeted overnight were all positively identified by precise intelligence over the course of months.”
One building houses or has been used by the following FPA members: British news organisations Sky News, and Sky News Arabia, MBC TV ,Al Arabiya, ORF and other European broadcasters.
The other one the Shawa Husseiri building house: ARD TV. Eight journalists working for various organizations were injured.
On the 23 December 2006 the UN Security Council, some of whose permanent members had media organisations which were in the buildings targeted, unanimously adopted resolution 1738 which ‘condemns attacks against journalists in conflict situations.
The resolution states that the UNSC
“Unanimously adopting resolution 1738 (2006), the Council recalled, without prejudice to the war correspondents’ right to the status of prisoners of war under the Third Geneva Convention, that journalists, media professionals and associated personnel engaged in dangerous professional missions in areas of armed conflict shall be considered civilians, to be respected and protected as such”

The Board of the FPA November 18th 2012
Source (http://www.fpa.org.il/?categoryId=73840).

Updates:

Unconfirmed reports of Egyptians heading to border with Gaza to protest the blockade.

Paul Danahar reports: 'IDF has told BBC it knew foreign media were in at least one of the buildings in Gaza when it was hit. Says they were not the target.' (Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- feed)

Audio of part of IDF spokes person's response:
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1065546-audio-of-israeli-idf-defending-attack-on-media-building-in-gaza.mp3
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1065546

panopticon
18th November 2012, 10:47
'Israel is ready to “significantly expand” Gaza operation, stated Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after Hamas militants fired at least nine rockets into Israel as the fifth day of Israel’s Pillar of Defense began.' (RT (http://rt.com/news/hamas-israel-attack-gaza-983/))

Latest report from Al Jazeera:

wBrPod6GQAo

astrid
18th November 2012, 10:51
Harry Live on Russia Today at 11am GMT, with updates from Gaza

http://rt.com/on-air/


And, also from RT...

"Israel is ready to “significantly expand” Gaza operation, stated Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after Hamas militants fired at least nine
rockets into Israel as the fifth day of Israel’s Pillar of Defense began.

Israeli soldiers prepare tanks at an Israeli army deployment area near the
Israel-Gaza Strip border, in preparation for a ground operation in the
Palestinian coastal enclave"

http://rt.com/news/hamas-israel-attack-gaza-983/

modwiz
18th November 2012, 11:30
Infantry into Gaza sounds like bad news for all involved. Hamas has to know that rocketing cities will lead to a ground incursion. So, they must want one. Infantry is the army any one can mount. It is my guess that Hamas believes it can punish any ground forces that come onto their turf and are goading their opponent to do so. I do not think this represents masochism, but the only strategy they can deploy in an asymmetrical way. Those who do not fear death have a psychological advantage over those that do. Either way, a ground incursion into Gaza will be horrific for all involved. Even those of us who just have to witness the carnage.

In the global game of chess, I wonder what moves are being made elsewhere with all of our eyes focused on the Levant.

modwiz
18th November 2012, 12:15
Maybe some good news?

Crucial Update: Netanyahu Says No to Ground Operation

This is from Gilad Atzmon and posted at VT.


Ynet reported a few hours ago that Netanyahu gave private assurances to US President Obama that Israel is not planning a ground operation in Gaza yet.
“According to two American officials who were briefed on the phone conversation between Netanyahu and Obama, the PM said Israel would not consider a full-scale ground invasion of Gaza unless there was escalation from Hamas or an attack that caused significant casualties.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/11/18/crucial-update-netanyahu-says-no-to-ground-operation/

The question, germane to my above post, is Hamas going to stop whacking the hornets nest?

We shall see.

My guess is they will see Netanyahu's stance as one of weakness and fear, not prudence or mercy. This may only whet the appetite of Hamas for a ground confrontation. They have sizable arsenal of RPG's. The IDF knows this.

Limor Wolf
18th November 2012, 13:38
Currently at the headlines:


"Chief of Staff ordered to increase the rate of attacks in Gaza.

Preparations for possible ground incursion into the Gaza Strip continues"



Dozens of rockets were fired at Israel today towards the south and the center of the country.

This is how it looks during the night-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88z987mx2Do


and during the day-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alXvCLxt76U



God save us from ourself,

or shall we do it?


Limor

Operator
18th November 2012, 14:57
The question, germane to my above post, is Hamas going to stop whacking the hornets nest?


Hamas are not Iran's puppets, they're controlled opposition.
It is easy for Israel to have some rockets land in their backyard and then point their finger to Hamas.
Just another false flag ... to get things going.

I found more and more indications to this when I read a dutch newspaper this morning that had made
an extensive attempt to point the finger to the next target: Iran

http://images0.tcdn.nl/buitenland/article21090709.ece/BINARY/q/raketten

(Original article here (http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/21090559/___Bijna_500_raketten_in_Israel___.html))

I won't bother to translate the article but it boils down to pointing out that the longest range rockets are made by Iran.

Propaganda, propaganda, propaganda ... Nothing more, nothing less

buckminster fuller
18th November 2012, 15:14
from : http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november172012/chomsky-gaza.php

"Chomsky Statement on Israel's War on Gaza
Salem-News.com

It is not a war, it is murder.


(WASHINGTON DC) - The following statement by Noam Chomsky indicates a different stand toward Israeli aggression than Prof. Chomsky has revealed in the past:

"The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.

The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

“When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense.”"

Sammy
18th November 2012, 15:16
Would we have sat back and not taken sides as the Germans invaded and occupied Europe, just because at some point the people resisting the imperialists killed civilians or committed other crimes? Would we have sat back in our physical safety and moral pomposity and said, ‘you’re both just as bad as each other’?

When the ANC was battling apartheid forces in South Africa, was it right for people so sit back and not take a position because some figures in the ANC committed crimes throughout their long struggle?

Should we have forever ignored the outrages perpetrated against the people of Timor Leste because at times the resistance fighters from Fretlin took cover amongst the population?

Take a look at the dispossession and the chronic injustices that have been inflicted upon the Palestinian people for decades, and ask yourself if just maybe they deserve our support instead of our neutrality.




P.S. With regard to my previous post I was referring to the western media, from now on I will try and be more specific so that people don’t get confused.

Knowing what I know now about human history and knowing how the 3rd party manipulators pull all the strings, then yes, I would do something different. I would withdraw all support in any form from ALL participants in this affair. That is exactly and only what I would do. If those who refuse to grow up prefer to allow their egos to set their part of the world on fire, let 'em. If that then allows the third party manipulators to convince the rest of the world it should set a larger portion (perhaps the entire world for that matter) on fire, so freaking what? Is what we have now and what we have had up until now worth continuing on and on and on?

Did benevolent 4th parties who attempt to intervene ever accomplish permanent world peace?

When we will all get THE CLUE. When we turn the wars off, when we stop paying attention to them, when we stop feeding the monster with anti-energy which is STILL energy, then the monster transforms into a being that can eat the energies of Love or the monster withers and dies.

There's a new idea huh? Amazing... get a clue, planet earth.

RunningDeer
18th November 2012, 17:24
http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Photoshop/Palestine.GIF

Krullenjongen
18th November 2012, 18:43
The question, germane to my above post, is Hamas going to stop whacking the hornets nest?


Hamas are not Iran's puppets, they're controlled opposition.
It is easy for Israel to have some rockets land in their backyard and then point their finger to Hamas.
Just another false flag ... to get things going.

That is the third time i have heard this in this thread.
Did i miss some news articles or is this just simply your speculation?



I found more and more indications to this when I read a dutch newspaper this morning that had made
an extensive attempt to point the finger to the next target: Iran

http://images0.tcdn.nl/buitenland/article21090709.ece/BINARY/q/raketten

(Original article here (http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/21090559/___Bijna_500_raketten_in_Israel___.html))

I won't bother to translate the article but it boils down to pointing out that the longest range rockets are made by Iran.

Propaganda, propaganda, propaganda ... Nothing more, nothing less

I just read the article (thanks for posting the source) but they don't make an extensive point of all this they just mention it in one sentence.
And i believe they are not incorrect.

In the following article they mention that Hamas has signed military and mutual defense pacts with Iran and Hizballah. It also tries to explain why President Obama supports israel so strongly which was not expected as the relation between the two leaders is all but good. It's a bit more insight into the bigger picture.

Israel will strike Gaza so long as Khamenei nixes talks with Obama
http://www.debka.com/article/22537/Israel-will-strike-Gaza-so-long-as-Khamenei-nixes-talks-with-Obama (http://www.debka.com/article/22537/Israel-will-strike-Gaza-so-long-as-Khamenei-nixes-talks-with-Obamahttp://www.debka.com/article/22537/Israel-will-strike-Gaza-so-long-as-Khamenei-nixes-talks-with-Obama)

And the following articles claims Iran admits pulling the strings in Gaza and that the "long range rockets" (75 km range) are Iranian made Fajr 5 rockets.

Iran admits pulling strings on Gaza crisis
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/iran-admits-pulling-strings-on-gaza-crisis/

(I can't read Arabic to i can't check the source in the article, so if someone can and it doesn't add up let me know)

So i am not so sure about your "it's all propaganda" opinion.

Krullenjongen
18th November 2012, 18:53
I don't know where they got this list but this is simply not correct.
See this Wikipage for the restrictions on import.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_allowed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza#Post-June_2010
A lot of the goods on this list may have been banned at some point but are not at the moment.


P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.
(source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292248 )

I take no side in this - good points, Krullenjongen... that list for example - what is the source?

Gotta be fair in this thing.

Hope you don't lump me into the camp of everyone. I see both sides wrong but what do I know? Chester[COLOR="red"]


Here's the source you asked for, from the Israel ministry of Foreign Affaires website.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Lists_Controlled_Entry_Items_4-Jul-2010.htm

Sammy
18th November 2012, 19:42
I don't know where they got this list but this is simply not correct.
See this Wikipage for the restrictions on import.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_allowed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza#Post-June_2010
A lot of the goods on this list may have been banned at some point but are not at the moment.


P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.
(source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=292248 )

I take no side in this - good points, Krullenjongen... that list for example - what is the source?

Gotta be fair in this thing.

Hope you don't lump me into the camp of everyone. I see both sides wrong but what do I know? Chester[COLOR="red"]


Here's the source you asked for, from the Israel ministry of Foreign Affaires website.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Lists_Controlled_Entry_Items_4-Jul-2010.htm

Hi and thanks... I was unable to easily find the items listed in that previous post on this site link you provided. Are you suggesting that that list was bogus and this is the correct restricted items list? I am now a bit lost - thanks for the reply, justone

161803398
18th November 2012, 20:38
Well, I take a side. I side with the people. People are the same everywhere and are being victimized by a political machine which creates the impression that these fictional "sides" exist to deflect attention from itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?EYvOQHExhnY

PathWalker
18th November 2012, 20:55
from : http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november172012/chomsky-gaza.php

"Chomsky Statement on Israel's War on Gaza
Salem-News.com


It is not a war, it is murder.


(WASHINGTON DC) - The following statement by Noam Chomsky indicates a different stand toward Israeli aggression than Prof. Chomsky has revealed in the past:

"The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.

The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

“When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense.”"

Apparently this is another propaganda and hate post, from Chomsky.
Both warring sides would obliterate the other if they could.

The Palestinians have the moral justice to destroy Israel and slaughter the Jews (see the Syrian case), but lack the physical means.
The Israelis have the physical means annihilate the Palestinians long ago, but lack the moral justice.

Besides of that, the conflict is constantly maintained and never allowed to be solved. By TPTB on both sides.
They never missed an opportunity to miss a resolution.

omeriko
18th November 2012, 21:33
from : http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november172012/chomsky-gaza.php

"Chomsky Statement on Israel's War on Gaza
Salem-News.com

The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

If Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse the 'Palestinians' they wouldn't use sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels, they would use artillery shells which are far cheaper but less accurate. Them using sophisticated weaponry suggest the exact opposite. Namely, that Israel tries it's best to harm as few civilians as possible while targeting the 'Palestinian' combatants and weapon caches. If you take into account that Israel dropped in excess of a thousand bombs on the Strip in the past few days while killing 70 odd people, it's not really indicative of any intention of ethnic cleansing.



Apparently this is another propaganda and hate post, from Chomsky.
Both warring sides would obliterate the other if they could.

The Palestinians have the moral justice to destroy Israel and slaughter the Jews (see the Syrian case), but lack the physical means.
The Israelis have the physical means annihilate the Palestinians long ago, but lack the moral justice.

Besides of that, the conflict is constantly maintained and never allowed to be solved. By TPTB on both sides.
They never missed an opportunity to miss a resolution.

The 'Palestinians' don't have the moral justice to destroy Israel. There is no such thing as a 'Palestinian People'. It is a well documented historical fact. See this article (with sources, non of which are Israeli or Jewish) http://hm-holyland.blogspot.co.il/2011/12/arabs-in-holy-land-natives-or-aliens.html and this one is quoting one of the PLO admitting it http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/.

Also, Israel never wanted to annihilate the 'Palestinians' as far as I know.

PathWalker
18th November 2012, 22:02
Excellent review of the situation from Alex Jones, exposing the real motives behind the current drama.
NWqJzyUmnLg

PathWalker
18th November 2012, 22:08
The 'Palestinians' don't have the moral justice to destroy Israel. There is no such thing as a 'Palestinian People'. It is a well documented historical fact. See this article (with sources, non of which are Israeli or Jewish) http://hm-holyland.blogspot.co.il/2011/12/arabs-in-holy-land-natives-or-aliens.html and this one is quoting one of the PLO admitting it http://www.wnd.com/2002/07/14501/.

Also, Israel never wanted to annihilate the 'Palestinians' as far as I know.

I agree "The 'Palestinians' don't have the moral justice to destroy Israel.", but they believe they do.

The Palestinian people are programmed to believe the source of all evil and suffering is Israel.
The Israeli people are programmed to believe they are on the brink of extinction.

It is the classic divide and conquer tactic.

PathWalker
18th November 2012, 22:30
Another interesting view:
McCain: Without Iron Dome, Israel would be in Gaza

US diplomats comment on Gaza op, support Israel's right to defend itself, but stress need for negotiations: 'No one wants ground war'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4308026,00.html


Republican senator John McCain said in an interview with CBS that "If it hadn’t been for Iron Dome, the Israelis would be in Gaza right now," referring to a ground invasion into the Gaza Strip.

He added, however, that it was important to promote diplomatic solutions to the conflict. "It's very important to recognize that the United States of America has got to push as hard as we can to resolve this Israeli-Palestinian issue, and so many events hinge on making that process go forward," the Republican senator said.



McCain added that the second thing he would do to advance peace between Israelis and Palestinians would be to "find someone, even as high-ranking, frankly, as former president Bill Clinton, to go and be the negotiator. We need a person of enormous prestige and influence to have these parties sit down together."


He also addressed Egypt's role in the conflict, stating that "The Egyptians have a real interest here in the region… in the peace agreement continuing to be abided by them; the agreement that they have with Israel. But I think that they're going to have to take some very serious steps diplomatically to make it clear to Hamas that they're going to lose support in the Arab world if they continue these rocket attacks on Israel.

I can read between the lines, explanation for why
They never missed an opportunity to miss a resolution.
Here is the sweet talk from TPTB.

Sammy
18th November 2012, 23:02
if the Palestinian people would accept that they are people and the Israeli people would accept that they are people, then perhaps they could tell the puppet masters they are not interested in participating in the manufactured, well managed and meant to extend for a long, long time exercise they publicize to be "war." Get a clue - it is people killing people for other people who may not actually be people. When the truth is faced, and you see your own roll and still you continue to participtate, then whose fault does it start to become?

This planet is a clown show... one day we'll get tired of the entertainment or have no planet left.

I side with the people too, unfortunately the people are clearly against themselves - go figure.

panopticon
18th November 2012, 23:05
Well, I take a side. I side with the people. People are the same everywhere and are being victimized by a political machine that is creating the impression that these other fictional "sides" exist in order to deflect attention from itself.

EYvOQHExhnY

Well said 161803398.
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon
18th November 2012, 23:17
There are reports that the representatives of the various factions in the Gaza Strip and the Israeli representatives are coming to an agreement on conditions for a cease fire. (Source (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/hamas-official-90-cent-ceasefire-terms-agreed-upon) Source2 (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))

Meanwhile bombing of Gaza continues (@BBC Middle East (https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/bbc-middle-east) Twitter feed) .

panopticon
18th November 2012, 23:49
Earlier in this thread, before the IDF blog (http://www.idfblog.com/) was down for a day or so, I posted this:



Found this image being used by the IDF to link to their "Hamas Uses Gazans as Human Shields When Launching Rockets (http://www.idfblog.com/hamas/2012/10/29/hamas-uses-its-own-civilians-as-human-shields-when-launching-rockets-at-israel/)" page. Very obvious psychological propaganda (the words 'Hamas "Human Shield Tactics"' appear overlaid on the image):
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=19308&d=1353309506

The image is still there but the IDF have changed the words and link to:
'How Does The IDF Minimize Harm to Palestinian Civilians?'

The gamification of the top level of their blog has also been removed (there have been alot of negative comments about it [for example here (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/16/the-war-will-be-gamified-israel-hamas-in-social-media-struggle/) and here (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-s-online-pr-offensive-sees-blowback.premium-1.478639)]) though I am unaware if it has been removed completely.

The psychological propaganda war continues...

161803398
19th November 2012, 00:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?aKucPh9xHtM

panopticon
19th November 2012, 00:29
aKucPh9xHtM
Thank you for sharing the video 161803398,
That was very powerful.

panopticon
19th November 2012, 01:07
Just read a very chilling opinion piece in the Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?ID=292466) by Gilad Sharon (son of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon):


We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.
There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.
... This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.


The overall sentiment of the article is for Israel to escalate because if it doesn't there can be no peace:


There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

Tesseract
19th November 2012, 01:12
The link below is a short video showing some of the weapons (type and quantity) the USA has provided Israel with since the year 2000. As you will see the bombs being dropped right now are coming from a rather large stockpile, and US companies are profiting massively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfH1vCSTgeI

Operator
19th November 2012, 01:59
That is the third time i have heard this in this thread.
Did i miss some news articles or is this just simply your speculation?


You partly answered your own question ... you won't find this in news articles. The reason I read that dutch newspaper
at all is to see how they are spinning the story. One of the researchers in a better position than me to explain this is
Eli James.

But to go short: "The very first victim of war is always the truth". Probably because most (if not all) wars start with
a false flag operation.



I just read the article (thanks for posting the source) but they don't make an extensive point of all this they just mention it in one sentence.


They had a very fat printed headline on the frontpage which they didn't repeat above the specific article page.
It's gone now but it shouted out load that the rockets were made by Iran. Also, just like 9/11 when they knew
so much about Bin Laden in detail etc. etc. I think they put some effort in the picture
to show how dangerous these rockets are.
When details are overdone ... I particularly start paying attention.



And the following articles claims Iran admits pulling the strings in Gaza and that the "long range rockets" (75 km range) are Iranian made Fajr 5 rockets.


Then we first have to check who is running that website etc. So much media is controlled. They can put out whatever they like,
it doesn't make it true by default.

Look at Susan Lindauer's story (ex CIA) how they in advance accused Iraq. If 9/11 was going to take place it was going
to be their fault. That's called working toward the result.

Operator
19th November 2012, 02:19
P.s. and again it is kind of funny to see that everyone is highlighting the strikes on Gaza but no one mentions how many rockets have been fired on Isreal since the assasination of the Hamas leader. What is the count?.......i believe it is about 660.


Well again, do you trust this source? It looks like MSM to me on a side which benefits if it would be victimized.

Let me have a look at the map again:

http://images0.tcdn.nl/buitenland/article21090709.ece/BINARY/q/raketten

I noticed how small the Gaza strip actually is. There is a 10 Km scale at the bottom left.
In fact it is about the size of the island where I live. So let me think those 660 rockets
would have been launched from that strip .... Hmm, if I would have to hide 660 rockets
on this island I would have a hard time to do so (some would be more than 6.5 meters).

I have seen a photo where they were extinguishing the fire from the car they killed the Hamas leader in.
The front was hardly damaged (paint still intact).
It means they had a precision shot through the back window AND they knew exactly
where he was.

So they DO exactly know where all the Hamas leaders are and kill them off but they DON"T know where 660 rockets, some with a length of 6 meters, are?
Any tactical commander will tell you to first take out the rockets before attacking the rest. You can bet on it that they will
use them when you start killing their leaders!
So tell me what's wrong with this picture?

norman
19th November 2012, 03:11
So tell me what's wrong with this picture?


The way the BBC here in Britain is hammering this issue "wall to wall" reminds me very much of the way they prepped us for the 1991 Gulf war. It's not quite the same as normal 'war' coverage. I have a creepy feeling we are being led by the hand into a "just war" scenario that's going to be really really massive.

What's wrong with this picture ?, well, I think all this Gaza brutality is the warm up, and, to a certain extent, a 'cover' for the big whammy with, most likely, Iran. This a good excuse to get the country geared up and get all thier ducks in a row ready for the Iran whammy, without being too obviously getting ready for it, directly.

They've already put thousands of reservists back into uniforms and checked all their air raid routines and god knows what else.

I'm currently running on the assumption that the Israeli government have done their polite wait for the US elections to get out of the way and are now about to kick off one hell of a mess in the middle east.

Operator
19th November 2012, 04:17
well, I think all this Gaza brutality is the warm up, and, to a certain extent, a 'cover' for the big whammy with, most likely, Iran.

...

I'm currently running on the assumption that the Israeli government have done their polite wait for the US elections to get out of the way and are now about to kick off one hell of a mess in the middle east.

Similar thoughts here ... (Although I think that Syria might be in line before Iran).

Additionally I found another article in that same dutch newspaper today:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/21091439/___NL_se_Patriots_naar_Turkije___.html

Title (translated): Dutch Patriots possibly to Turkey.
Summarized it is a heads-up to the Dutch people that the Netherlands is about to send the Patriot
missile air-defense system to Turkey (NATO country) to protect them from Syrian attacks.

The Netherlands did this before to protect Israel against SCUD missiles during the 1991 Gulf war.
So somehow they expect things to intensify there. And guess what, bringing more weapons to
that region won't bring peace but more likely new more intensified conflicts.

panopticon
19th November 2012, 06:52
Gili Cohen reports (Haaretz) that the IDF bombing of a family in Gaza (killing 12) was an accident:

Most of the casualties were unarmed civilians, including children and infants, the IDF stated. According to the IDF report, the source of the error was either the failure to paint the target of the attack on the correct site or that one of the munitions in the strike misfired. The army is still investigating the causes behind the incident.
Source (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-gaza-civilians-killed-due-to-faulty-air-strike.premium-1.478887#)

Paul Danahar:

Oops, seems IDF recalled their press update because someone called it operation 'Pillar of Fire' instead of operation 'Pillar of Defense'
Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed

Jon Donnison:

IDF spokes just told me one rocket fired out of Gaza since midnight to best of his knowledge.
Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonDonnison) -- Feed

Extensive bombing on Gaza continued overnight.

Updates:


At least 400 people have crossed into Gaza from Egypt in solidarity with Gaza, confirms Al Jazeera's Nicole Johnston.
(AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136))

Exceptional report by Robert Fisk in the Independent (Here (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/as-the-gates-of-hell-open-once-more-in-the-middle-east-these-old-journalistic-clichs-wont-do-8327133.html)).

RT is reporting:

Nov. 19, 07:13 GMT: Israel has warned Hamas that it will step up its offensive in the Gaza Strip in 36 hours if they do not cease rocket fire and arms smuggling. Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz told IDF radio that the time left before Israel escalates its attacks can be measured in “hours, not days.”
Source (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/)

More information on the conditions Israel are demanding ahead of the 36 hour deadline:


Israel has demanded that Hamas cease firing rockets into Israel for a period of “several years”
... stop the smuggling of weapons into Gaza.
... asked that Israel be allowed to hunt down terrorists in the event of an attack or if it obtains information on an imminent attack.

Hamas [said it] would not accept the creation of an Israeli "security belt" in eastern Gaza.
Palestinians have demanded the immediate lifting of the Israeli blockade on Gaza and the cessation of IDF targeted killings.
Source (http://rt.com/news/israel-ultimatum-hamas-offensive-028/).

From IDF (this argument will be used later I reckon):

Fact: 100+ rockets fired from #Gaza have crashed back into Gaza in last 5 days. Hamas fires from civilian areas...and hits its own people.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson) -- Feed)

More than 44 million hacking attempts on Israel Government:

More than 44 million hacking attempts have been made on Israeli government web sites since Wednesday when Israel began its Gaza air strikes, the government says.
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-19/millions-of-hacking-attacks-on-israeli-govt-websites/4379222).

Hervé
19th November 2012, 08:11
From another angle:

... and from: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

Israel and the U.S. CREATED Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda
Posted on November 18, 2012 (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html) by WashingtonsBlog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/author/washingtonsblog)
Creating the Enemies We Now Fight Against

We’ve extensively documented (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html) that the U.S. and Israel created Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups in an attempt to fight other enemies.


Larry Johnson – a counterterrorism official at the U.S. State Department – says (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis-Hamas-history-tied-to-Israel/UPI-82721024445587/):
The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism. They are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer. They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it.
As one example, Israel helped create Hamas.
Veteran journalist Robert Dreyfuss (http://www.robertdreyfuss.com/bio.htm) writes:
In the decades before 9/11, hard-core activists and organizations among Muslim fundamentalists on the far right were often viewed as allies for two reasons, because they were seen a fierce anti-communists and because the opposed secular nationalists such as Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser, Iran’s Mohammed Mossadegh.
***
In Syria, the United States, Israel, and Jordan supported the Muslim Brotherhood in a civil war against Syria. And … Israel quietly backed Ahmed Yassin and the Muslim Brotherhood in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to the establishment of Hamas.
See this (http://www.alternet.org/story/116855/america%27s_hidden_role_in_hamas%27s_rise_to_power ) and this:
According to former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Charles Freeman, Shin Bet—the Israeli counter-intelligence and internal security service— knowingly created Hamas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805076522/centerforcoop-20):
Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.
Full article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

Flash
19th November 2012, 08:12
When reading Israel and Palestine history, it is very important to look at the source of the writing. The reason: both sides, Israel and Palestine, have rewritten the history to favor their point of view and to brainwash the rest of us accordingly.

Most of what I found on the internet was written by organisations supporting zionism, which are biaised towards the Israeli rewriting, a few were from Arabs or Palestinians, biaised towards Palestinian rewriting.

I found one site that was created by an American reporter/historian and researcher who seemed much more objective, giving the real statistics on population, explaining that before being owned by the British, Palestine was a governed by the turkish empire (Ottoman) - just by this, one already know that there was a large amount of Muslim before the arrival of the European Jews. However, it is said that Palestine was a mix, slight dominance of Muslims arabs, Christains being in second and Jews in third before 1917.

Here is the text, analyse it the way you want, but having only Israeli or Palestinian writings to refer to insure us not to have the truth, they both seem to be rewriting history.






Historic Palestine

Historic Palestine
source: Palestine Remembered

Historically, the land of Palestine was populated by a people known as the Palestinians. Palestinians have always been religiously diverse, with the Muslim majority maintaining friendly relations with their Christian, Jewish, and Druze brethren.

At the turn of the 20th Century, a new Jewish nationalist ideology called Zionism was developing. Zionism called for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

During this time, increasing numbers of Jewish Europeans immigrated to Palestine, causing the Jewish population to grow from a tiny minority to 35% of the population.


Population of Historic Palestine


Year

Non-Jewish Palestinians

Jewish Population

1877

426,908 non jewish
(97%)

13,942 jewish
(3%)

1912

665,840 non jewish
(95%)

36,267 jewish
(5%)


1925

780,568 non jewish
(85%)

137,484 jewish
(15%)

1946

1,339,763 non jewish
(69%)

602,586 jewish
(31%)

Source: McCarthy, Justin, The Population of Palestine, Columbia University Press: New York, 1990, pp. 10, 35.

View map of Palestine from 1944.

UN Partition of Palestine

Plan of Partition
source: UN


In 1947, the United Nations partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population. The indigenous Palestinians rejected the division of the land on which they had lived and farmed for centuries.

At the time of partition, the Jewish population owned less than 6% of Palestine.

1948 Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip

Israel, West Bank, and Gaza
source: Palestine Center (my word: could be doubtful - the source - because both camp are rewriting history)

In 1948 Israel declared its "independence," but chose not to name its borders (Israel may be the only nation in the world with undeclared borders). Following its founding war of 1947-49 Israel came into existence on 78 percent of Palestine, a percentage it has steadily increased in subsequent years, a process that continues today.

Refugees and Depopulated Villages


Displaced Palestinian Refugees
source: Palestine Remembered


Depopulated Villages
source: Palestine Remembered (same be careful of rewriting even if the owner of the site are real erudites americans)

Between the time of partition and the declaration of Israel on 78% of historic Palestine in 1948, the newly formed Jewish state had depopulated (through massacres, expulsion orders, and fear tactics) over 400 villages and made refugees of at least 726,000 Palestinians (see U.N.).

As Moshe Dayan put it, “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.”

Learn more about refugees.

1967 and Occupation

Arab Land Occupied in 1967
source: PASSIA

In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22% of historic Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza (as well as large sections of Syria and Egypt). Since then Israel has transferred many of its citizens to Jewish “settlements,” (colonies, which are illegal according to the fourth Geneva Convention). Today 40% of the West Bank is off-limits to Palestinians, as they are not allowed to live in Israeli settlements, drive on Israeli-only roads connecting these settlements, or even live or travel through “security zones,” surrounding the settlements.

Learn more about life under occupation.

Annexation of Jerusalem





Annexation of East Jerusalem and Jerusalem-Area Settlements
source: UN


Following the 1967 war, Israel created what it calls “Greater Jerusalem.” It did this by expanding the borders of East Jerusalem to include surrounding areas of the West Bank where the Palestinian population was minimal. It annexed this new “Jerusalem,” and declared it to be it’s capitol.

Since 1967, Israel has established numerous illegal settlements in this “Greater Jerusalem,” thereby ensuring a Jewish majority in the city. While the municipal government encourages the construction of new Jewish homes in the city, Palestinian families (many of whom have lived in Jerusalem for centuries) are rarely able to acquire the permits necessary to build new homes and are only allowed to live in certain areas of the city due to systematic discrimination against non-Jewish citizens.

For more information on housing discrimination in Jerusalem, watch Jerusalem: An Occupation Set in Stone?

Israeli Settlements on Palestinian and Syrian Land

Israeli Settlements on the Palestinian West Bank and Gaza Strip and in the Syrian Golan Heights (as of 1996).
source: UN

Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights.

Settlements are one of the major blockages to a peaceful and just resolution to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and other Arabs. The "roadmap" to peace calls on Israel to dismantle these settlements and to return the land to the rightful owners. Unfortunately, Israel continues to expand existing settlements and to build new ones.

Israeli settlers, who are known for their Jewish fundamentalism and desire to take the rest of Palestine (and perhaps even parts of other Arab lands) for Israel, usually carry large guns. They travel on specially built “bypass roads,” that now crisscross the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Palestinians are not allowed to use these roads.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html


What made me post is the background of the three americans on the site. You can barely get better.

The other thing that made me post is the memories I have starting in the war of 67. i know for a fact that the Palestinian territory has not stopped shrinking. I have also met some people from the extended palestinian population living now in Jordan, but that were previously in the taken territories in now Israel. And we talked of the situation. I also have friend who lived in kibboutz and travel around Israel, so I had their point of view as well. They were living where shelling was landing on their head near the Palestinian state. On the other hand, it is obvious that Jews have made a paradise of a barren land, working the land extensively.

What makes me sick is the rewriting of history, where can we find the truth? I wish I would find old turkish texts describing it from the Ottoman empire time and be able to follow the thread.

PathWalker
19th November 2012, 08:49
What makes me sick is the rewriting of history, where can we find the truth? I wish I would find old turkish texts describing it from the Ottoman empire time and be able to follow the thread.

Very good article.

Better get well soon.
The truth is what you believe in. The truth is very personal. What we call objective reality is a subjective experience full of emotions and feelings.
When you start looking inside to what make you sick, you start taking responsibility and then you can make a change. Only if you want.

Justice as well, is changing with culture and geography. Justice is not blind and never was.

161803398
19th November 2012, 09:19
This is a very great man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&oCKWDarNdGw

astrid
19th November 2012, 11:06
yL4D7NSFN5M

Sammy
19th November 2012, 12:21
That is the third time i have heard this in this thread.
Did i miss some news articles or is this just simply your speculation?


You partly answered your own question ... you won't find this in news articles. The reason I read that dutch newspaper
at all is to see how they are spinning the story. One of the researchers in a better position than me to explain this is
Eli James.

But to go short: "The very first victim of war is always the truth". Probably because most (if not all) wars start with
a false flag operation.



I just read the article (thanks for posting the source) but they don't make an extensive point of all this they just mention it in one sentence.


They had a very fat printed headline on the frontpage which they didn't repeat above the specific article page.
It's gone now but it shouted out load that the rockets were made by Iran. Also, just like 9/11 when they knew
so much about Bin Laden in detail etc. etc. I think they put some effort in the picture
to show how dangerous these rockets are.
When details are overdone ... I particularly start paying attention.



And the following articles claims Iran admits pulling the strings in Gaza and that the "long range rockets" (75 km range) are Iranian made Fajr 5 rockets.


Then we first have to check who is running that website etc. So much media is controlled. They can put out whatever they like,
it doesn't make it true by default.

Look at Susan Lindauer's story (ex CIA) how they in advance accused Iraq. If 9/11 was going to take place it was going
to be their fault. That's called working toward the result.

WoW! Great to have an experienced member here - I had a suspicion about you, Operator, before but now you have confirmed it. Excellent post, excellent points and excellent analysis. Thank You very, very much, Operator... Chester (justoneman)

Sammy
19th November 2012, 12:28
So tell me what's wrong with this picture?


The way the BBC here in Britain is hammering this issue "wall to wall" reminds me very much of the way they prepped us for the 1991 Gulf war. It's not quite the same as normal 'war' coverage. I have a creepy feeling we are being led by the hand into a "just war" scenario that's going to be really really massive.

What's wrong with this picture ?, well, I think all this Gaza brutality is the warm up, and, to a certain extent, a 'cover' for the big whammy with, most likely, Iran. This a good excuse to get the country geared up and get all thier ducks in a row ready for the Iran whammy, without being too obviously getting ready for it, directly.

They've already put thousands of reservists back into uniforms and checked all their air raid routines and god knows what else.

I'm currently running on the assumption that the Israeli government have done their polite wait for the US elections to get out of the way and are now about to kick off one hell of a mess in the middle east.

This will not happen any time soon (if it ever happens at all) - at least it won't happen within the reality I choose.

If you choose to anchor within one of your experiential timelines where an outcome like this can manifest, then in your reality, it will happen. But all you will see is nothing but a degraded shadow of me... a distorted reflection of me.

Where I will be found is sitting comfortably on top of a rainbow.

I hope you and others change their mind, for all of your children and loved ones. justone

Sammy
19th November 2012, 12:37
From another angle:

... and from: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

Israel and the U.S. CREATED Hamas, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda
Posted on November 18, 2012 (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html) by WashingtonsBlog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/author/washingtonsblog)
Creating the Enemies We Now Fight Against

We’ve extensively documented (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html) that the U.S. and Israel created Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups in an attempt to fight other enemies.


Larry Johnson – a counterterrorism official at the U.S. State Department – says (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis-Hamas-history-tied-to-Israel/UPI-82721024445587/):
The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism. They are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer. They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it.
As one example, Israel helped create Hamas.
Veteran journalist Robert Dreyfuss (http://www.robertdreyfuss.com/bio.htm) writes:
In the decades before 9/11, hard-core activists and organizations among Muslim fundamentalists on the far right were often viewed as allies for two reasons, because they were seen a fierce anti-communists and because the opposed secular nationalists such as Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser, Iran’s Mohammed Mossadegh.
***
In Syria, the United States, Israel, and Jordan supported the Muslim Brotherhood in a civil war against Syria. And … Israel quietly backed Ahmed Yassin and the Muslim Brotherhood in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to the establishment of Hamas.
See this (http://www.alternet.org/story/116855/america%27s_hidden_role_in_hamas%27s_rise_to_power ) and this:
According to former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Charles Freeman, Shin Bet—the Israeli counter-intelligence and internal security service— knowingly created Hamas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805076522/centerforcoop-20):
Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.
Full article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html

Thank You, Amzer Zo - finally someone with some respect around Avalon is bold enough to point out a little more "reality" about a particular conflict. What then might be understood by "the people" if "the people" can finally get a clue is that the only way a war can exist is if people show up for it.

Both sides are wrong. It may end up in a larger regional conflict - if so it is just as much "the people's" fault. It may end up a larger scale conflict, perhaps even global... If so, it is just as much the fault of "the people."

When "the people" wake up to this game they clearly love to play just as much as the evil, bad guy PTBs and then make the choice without fear to no longer participate as a unified group - all us people... then war will go away like so many species that once lived on this earth.

Sammy
19th November 2012, 12:42
What makes me sick is the rewriting of history, where can we find the truth? I wish I would find old turkish texts describing it from the Ottoman empire time and be able to follow the thread.

Very good article.

Better get well soon.
The truth is what you believe in. The truth is very personal. What we call objective reality is a subjective experience full of emotions and feelings.
When you start looking inside to what make you sick, you start taking responsibility and then you can make a change. Only if you want.

Justice as well, is changing with culture and geography. Justice is not blind and never was.

Justice? What are the components of justice? Who decides what is just? You? Some "god" thingie?


What we call objective reality is a subjective experience full of emotions and feelings.

And it is precisely these emotions and feelings that a concept such as "justice" thrives, because you cannot separate judgement from justice and as long as anyone plays the judgement game, they are trapped in someone else's grand scheme because the puppet masters have transcended the emotions required for the derivation of anything as silly as justice.

Ponder on that. Get alone, get quiet and step outside of your emotions and ask yourself these questions. Who decides what is just?

Enjoy, Chester

ulli
19th November 2012, 13:06
The thing is this: if it is in the power of collective consciousness
to change those outcomes that the PTB aim for in their schemes and plots
then the collective consciousness has to have an idea
what to visualize as a step by step alternative route.

Religious brainwashing is done by religious leaders,
and further reinforced by matriarchs who uphold traditions.

The only thing which can counter those traditions is an international youth culture of rebellion,
one which would aim towards an international or global identity as well as spirituality.

So I see this happening already, despite the fact hat many are fearing anything that smacks of globalization.

The only problem remains with the extreme top and the extreme bottom of humanity's class and power pyramid.
Both sides feed one another, yet both are also each other's reflections.
All scenarios point to the need for system change.
But which system of government are we going to adopt?
Once people can visualize a better system and work towards it
then a lot of bloodshed can be avoided.

buckminster fuller
19th November 2012, 13:09
It really is ethnic cleansing... For every rocket Israel answers with hundreds of missiles, targeting population areas so dense that their discourse about a "clean" war (how could it be clean...?) just doesn't hold. They want the dismembering of refugee camps so that the people in those camps cannot reclaim their land. Being in a camp today is indeed the only way to, legally, stay in a position where you can pretend to get your land, your country back.
Clean war... Shame really.

panopticon
19th November 2012, 13:40
RT reports:
'Egyptian Prime Minister Hisham Kandil told Reuters a truce might soon be reached in Gaza.' (RT (http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/))

Further attacks on a building housing Journalists:

Jon Donnison:

Looks like third floor of Sharouk building housing journalists in Gaza hit. Most journalists likley evacuated from building already.
Sharouk buildings seems to have been hit 3 times just now.
Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonDonnison) -- Feed

Paul Danahar:

Israel has again targeted one of the buildings holding media in #Gaza I'm standing in from of it. It's on fire. Smoke billowing out
Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed

Updates:


Rival Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas said on Monday they have decided to end infighting in a show of solidarity in the West Bank over the Gaza crisis.

"From here, we announce with other (factional) leaders, that we are ending the division," senior Fatah official Jibril Rajoub told a crowd of about 1,000 who gathered on Monday for a demonstration in Ramallah, the West Bank's political capital.
(AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136) AJ2 (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/breaking-hamas-fatah-rivals-agree-unite-over-gaza-crisis))

One reported death in Sharouk building attack (this building was bombed yesterday as well in a "precision strike").


Nov. 19, 13:59 GMT: Palestinians and Israelis agree on a truce but disagree on implementation, Al Arabiya sources report. (RT)

Information on a possible cease fire:

Al-Arabiya quoted unnamed sources as saying that Israel has proposed an immediate ceasefire and the lifting of the Gaza blockade as part of negotiations for a lull.

Earlier, the network reported that Israel and Hamas agreed on a lull but still disagree on the implementation phases. According to the report, Hamas demanded an immediate ceasefire while Israel wanted to implement it in two stages.
(YNet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4308539,00.html))

The rhetoric coming from Meshaal is not very "diplomatic". He's calling Netanyahu a 'war criminal and child murderer' (amongst other things). He also said that the cease fire was all Israel's idea (which Israel is denying). It's like he's taunting him. How about this:

"Today he is brandishing the ground invasion against Hamas," Meshaal said. "If he wished to launch it, he would have already done it."
(AJ)

China offers support for the 'Arab countries' position' and urges 'restraint':


China is extremely concerned about Israel's continued large-scale military operations towards the Gaza Strip. We condemn the over-use of force causing deaths and injuries amongst innocent ordinary people.
China supports Arab countries' position on the Palestine issue, and appreciates and supports the proactive efforts of Egypt and other countries and the Arab League to ameliorate the present situation
We strongly urge relevant parties, especially Israel, to maintain maximum restraint and cease fire as soon as possible, to avoid any actions which may exacerbate the situation or raise tensions.
Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/19/us-palestinians-israel-china-idUSBRE8AI0AJ20121119).

Also...
The IDF Blog (http://www.idfblog.com/) is now showing a 403 error...
They've been "up and down like a mad woman's washing"...

PathWalker
19th November 2012, 16:47
It really is ethnic cleansing... For every rocket Israel answers with hundreds of missiles, targeting population areas so dense that their discourse about a "clean" war (how could it be clean...?) just doesn't hold. They want the dismembering of refugee camps so that the people in those camps cannot reclaim their land. Being in a camp today is indeed the only way to, legally, stay in a position where you can pretend to get your land, your country back.
Clean war... Shame really.

If you want to learn what is a dirty war?
Just look at:
1. WW2 and the Abomb.
2. The war in Iraq 1 Million civilians dead.
3. The war in Syria.

If this was an ethnic cleansing then the local Gazza residents be gone long ago.
Israel has the means, but not the will.
This is a surgical war. In 7 days of guerrilla warfare only 100 casualties. That is a miracle.

If you really cared for the poor arabs of the region you would care more for the massacre and humanitarian conditions in Syria.
You do not know how bad it is there, there is no propaganda there, do you really care?

You are captured by the west double standard for "humanitarian and compassionate" war.

Let me tell you something. It is easy to point fingers outward, but when you grow spiritually your learn those fingers are really pointing inward.

Flash
19th November 2012, 17:08
This is a very great man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&oCKWDarNdGw

Very good video, I wish Israel would listen for the safety and good living of all Jews.

buckminster fuller
19th November 2012, 17:47
It really is ethnic cleansing... For every rocket Israel answers with hundreds of missiles, targeting population areas so dense that their discourse about a "clean" war (how could it be clean...?) just doesn't hold. They want the dismembering of refugee camps so that the people in those camps cannot reclaim their land. Being in a camp today is indeed the only way to, legally, stay in a position where you can pretend to get your land, your country back.
Clean war... Shame really.

If you want to learn what is a dirty war?
Just look at:
1. WW2 and the Abomb.
2. The war in Iraq 1 Million civilians dead.
3. The war in Syria.

Wars are always dirty, the Israel / Palestinian conflict is not a war. Yet, the means used by what I do see as a colonial state, in the eyes of the generations to come, are inhuman. Call it white phosphorus, robotized drones, targeting hospitals or humiliating checkpoints... and the list goes on...
Those are radicalised, Orwelian tools used against populations, not an army.
I'm not saying the hamas hasn't done things as inhuman as those, but at least they don't see themselves as members of the democratic circle; and they frankly don't have the means nore the creativity of the army of Tsahal.



If this was an ethnic cleansing then the local Gazza residents be gone long ago.
Israel has the means, but not the will.

I'm no sure of that really... It is not the will that is lacking, but some type of justification towards international instances. Of course I'm not talking about the entire population of Israel, but the right winged, now contractually radicalised fools that indeed, would push toward ethnic cleansing.
The sole reason why people living in Gaza stay where they are, that is in concentration camps, is because they know they would loose any hope of retrieving their land if they did so. They still actually own a good share of what has already been colonized, and they will not go either with the money they have the right to claim, or a rightfull repossession of their land.



This is a surgical war. In 7 days of guerrilla warfare only 100 casualties. That is a miracle.

A miracle indeed that you can come out with so definitive, certain numbers. Apparently, many childs have fallen victim... I'm not sure they were hamas bosses...


If you really cared for the poor arabs of the region you would care more for the massacre and humanitarian conditions in Syria.
You do not know how bad it is there, there is no propaganda there, do you really care?

Thanks for your interest in my personal culture, and for bringing some guilt in the mix. Point taken.
About propaganda, and let's not forget lobbying, I think it would be intellectually dishonest to consider both parties equal in that matter.

Hervé
19th November 2012, 19:32
[...]

***
In Syria, the United States, Israel, and Jordan supported the Muslim Brotherhood in a civil war against Syria. And … Israel quietly backed Ahmed Yassin and the Muslim Brotherhood in the West Bank and Gaza, leading to the establishment of Hamas.
See this (http://www.alternet.org/story/116855/america%27s_hidden_role_in_hamas%27s_rise_to_power ) and this:
According to former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Charles Freeman, Shin Bet—the Israeli counter-intelligence and internal security service— knowingly created Hamas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805076522/centerforcoop-20):
Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.
Full article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/israel-and-the-u-s-created-hamas-hezbollah-and-other-terrorists-via-blowback.html


What can be deduced from those PTBs' favorite strategy of "Divide & Conquer" is that the created "solution" becomes a bigger "problem."

So, one has to look for that "$$ trail"... "Cui bono?"

The first ones to profit from both sides of any conflict are the "arms dealers"... no wars... no sales...

This, then, leads to the financing of these weapons purchases...

Which leads to loans...

Which leads to...

Billy
19th November 2012, 19:46
Israelis Soldiers refuse to serve in Gaza


1cMs0nai4JQ

19363

Peace

panopticon
19th November 2012, 23:42
The Israeli operation 'Pillar of Fire' oops 'Pillar of Defence' continues.

The number of fatalities in Gaza is now well over 100.
Around 25% of fatalities have been children, over 10% elderly and 10% women.
Many of these fatalities have been civilian non-combatants.

The number of injuries in Gaza requiring medical treatment is reported at over 850.
This figure is not all people who have required treatment, only those who needed treatment.
Over 30% children, over 5% elderly and over 15% women.

Three separate attacks in the last 2 days on buildings used by media outlets (both domestic and foreign journalists).

The media coverage on the Australia Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) has altered. The complexity of the Israeli/Palestinian "situation" is started to be presented and this is a major change.

The interviewees have started to talk about the long term history of the 'Israeli occupation' and 'with the Palestinians you have a structural conflict between Zionism and Palestinian Arabism.' This is a major shift in the way the 'Pillar of Defence' has been presented.


[T[he Israeli policy has consistently focused first and foremost on massive military force. The problem the Israelis have is that people on the Arab side, especially Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine and Islamic Jihad, are now finding ways to counter that military supremacy that the Israelis have.

And the Israeli desire not to be attacked by rockets is a fairly - is a legitimate one, but so is the Palestinian right not to be attacked, occupied, annexed, settled and laid siege to. And the two sides have legitimate claims.

There has to be a settlement that addresses the legitimate claims of both sides - the Israelis and the Palestinians. And this is where people are so angry. The previous speaker, the Palestinian journalist in Gaza and myself and others are so angry at the Western media's coverage, because it tends to pay lip-service to the Israeli narrative, which is Israel has a right to defend itself.

Of course it has a right to defend itself; but so do the Palestinians have a right not to be laid siege to and occupied and annexed and put in jail in the tens of thousands at a time. So until there's a equilibrium of rights, there will never be an equilibrium of peace and quiet on either side.
...
This idea that we have to have a ceasefire is not going to work. Because you can't have a ceasefire and go back to the situation before where Gaza was under siege by the Israelis. Malnourishment and stunting among children in Gaza has now been documented year after year by the United Nations and Save the Children and groups like that.

So the status quo that would come with a ceasefire is not acceptable to the Arabs. It's inhuman. It's a kind of humanitarian terrorism that the Israelis are practising by laying siege to Gaza and not allowing normal transport of food and medicines and other supplies.
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-20/rami-khouri-interview-in-beirut/4380822).


[T]he root cause is Israel's 45-year military control over the Gaza Strip and most particularly a very brutal six-year blockade that has been imposed on the Gaza Strip which has effectively ensured that the Gaza Strip, in the words of the United Nations, in a few short years will become unliveable. So if anything we have to begin to address these root causes and that is the 45-year denial of freedom to the Palestinians.
...
Israel as an occupying power is under an obligation to protect the Palestinians, not under an obligation to hurt the Palestinians. And Israel at this point in time cannot demand security from Palestinians.

That's not the role of Palestinians to provide Israel security; it's the other way around. And what we are looking at is what - it looks to be that that there's two equal sides, but there are not. And what has to happen is for Israel to get - to face increasing international pressure in the form of boycotts, in the form of sanctions to make sure that it abides by international law. This has gone on far too long and we're now seeing now three generations of Palestinians who have lived under Israel's military rule.
Source (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3636185.htm).

Updates:

IDF artillery strikes:


Nov. 19, 23:03 GMT: Israeli artillery based on the northern border of Gaza is shelling agricultural lands and homes in the town of Beit Hanoun, Al-Qassam Brigades say. Meanwhile Israeli warplanes have reportedly conducted an airstrike on Rafah city. (RT)

Bank of Islamic Palestine targeted:


The Bank of Islamic Palestine, a Hamas-affiliated institution, has just been hit by an Israeli shell in central Gaza, reports Al Jazeera's Nicole Johnston. The bank is used by Hamas to pay its employees. (AJ)


The Islamic National Bank is used by Hamas to pay salaries to government employees, police, civil servants etc
(Twitter (http://twitter.com/nicolealjazeera) -- Feed)

Talk about panopticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticism):

SqeZoW7C2Ng

161803398
20th November 2012, 00:53
http://www.alternatefocus.org/

panopticon
20th November 2012, 03:05
UN Security Council has adjourned with no result on Gaza/Israel -- resuming tomorrow @ 15:00 GMT.
Russia is reported as being 'furious' over the UN Security Councils silence and wants a vote on some form of resolution by 20:00 GMT tomorrow. (EJ (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Russia+frustrated+over+Security+Councils+silence+G aza+attacks/7571460/story.html) AJ)

US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice:

We think it's vitally important that this council, by its action, or non-action, is reinforcing the prospects for an agreed cessation" of hostilities.
That's got to be agreed between the parties to be meaningful or sustainable.
That is our principle objective in these discussions.
(AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136))

Paul Danahar:

It has been a remarkably quiet night in Gaza so far perhaps first real indication of political progress in Egypt.
I've heard no naval bombardment & no air strikes where I am in central Gaza though perhaps they are elsewhere.
There is the outside chance that I've got so used to being bombed in Gaza I slept through the lot but I don't think so.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed)

Nicole Johnston (AJ) said that there has been extensive bombing in Gaza over night and there is no sign of a lull.

Updates:

Informal comments from Mr. Vitaly I. Churkin, Representative of the Russian Federation on the UN Security Council, available here (http://webtv.un.org/vitaly-i.-churkin-russian-federation-on-the-situation-in-the-middle-east-security-council-media-stakeout-19-november-2012/1978278749001/watch/vitaly-i.-churkin-russian-federation-on-the-situation-in-the-middle-east-security-council-media-stakeout-19-november-2012/1978278749001).

astrid
20th November 2012, 03:25
Y1olJau6Ib0

astrid
20th November 2012, 03:37
19374

Please share

astrid
20th November 2012, 04:58
http://rt.com/news/russia-un-gaza-conflict-111/

"Breaking the ‘filibuster’: Russia to propose UN resolution on Gaza crisis

Russia is ready to propose a full resolution aimed at stopping the violence between Israel and Gaza if the West continues to “filibuster” the UN Security Council statement on the crisis.

“Russia is ready… to submit a draft resolution focusing on three key components,” Russia’s envoy to the UN, Vitaly Churkin told the UN Security Council during consultations on the Gaza conflict arranged at Russia’s initiative.

Morocco proposed a statement calling for a halt to the hostilities last Thursday and since then diplomats have had enough time to present their amendments in writing, Churkin said. “The fact that they introduced these amendments orally… after three days of having the Moroccan text at their disposal, they could, at least, have prepared their amendments in writing,” he said. “To me it unfortunately looks like a little bit of a filibuster attempt.”

Churkin did not name any one country that has been hampering progress and indicated “quite transparently that they will not be prepared to go along with any reaction of the Security Council.”

“Maybe it’s just a laid back attitude in a situation where we cannot afford procrastination,” he added.

According to Churkin the key components of Russia’s resolution would be the following: An end to the violence by a negotiated a ceasefire, support for international and regional efforts to settle the crisis peacefully and a call for the resumption of talks between Palestinians and Israelis on a wider range of problems.

Russia is also calling for an emergency ministerial meeting of the Quartet on the Middle East – the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union. “We believe the quartet should also actively play its role in trying to prevent further aggravation of the extremely dangerous situation,” Churkin said.

In the meantime, the text of what appears to be a draft document has been leaked on the internet.

One article of the six-point document urges all parties to address the serious humanitarian and economic needs in Gaza, and to allow for the safe and unhindered access of humanitarian assistance and personnel to the Palestinian people and to ensure the unimpeded provision of humanitarian supplies throughout Gaza.

Some 110 Palestinians, including at least 24 children and toddlers and 13 women have been killed since Israel launched its Operation Pillar of Defense against Gaza. Meanwhile three Israelis were killed in rocket fire on Thursday, a day after the IDF assassinated the head of the Hamas military wing, Ahmed Jabari.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon is visiting Cairo in a bid to broker a peace deal between the two sides as the threat of a ground invasion looms. On Monday, Israel warned Hamas it will step up its offensive in the Gaza Strip in 36 hours if it does not cease rocket fire."


leaked document here.. http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?id=75261&sid=1M2L&ext=DOCX&lcl=UNSC-Gaza-Draft-Res-Nov-19.docx&usr=benmoran&doc=113830785&key=key-101skdu216lwvs9fom0

will copy it here in case it gets removed..

"The Security Council,

Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003), 1850 (2008) and 1860 (2009), and noting the importance of the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative,
Gravely concerned at the dangerous escalation and steep deterioration of the situation in and around Gaza, in particular the resulting heavy civilian casualties, deploring the worsening humanitarian situation, and emphasizing that the Palestinian and Israeli civilian populations must be protected,
Stressing the importance of and appreciating ongoing international and regional efforts aimed at the immediate end of violence,
Noting in this regard the important role of the Quartet in seeking a political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,
Recalling that a lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only be achieved by peaceful means,
Reaffirming the right of all States in the region to live in peace within secure and internationally recognized borders,

1. Stresses the urgency of and demands an immediate, durable and fully respected cessation of violence, leading to the restoration of calm;

2. Supports international and regional efforts with a view to a prompt solution of the current situation;

3. Encourages Israel and the Palestinian authority to resume without delay a substantive bilateral negotiating process in order to reach the final goal of concluding a peace treaty resolving all outstanding issues, including all core issues, without exception, on the internationally recognized basis of the two-state solution as envisaged in Security Council resolution 1850 (2008);

4. Condemns all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorism;

5. Urges all parties to address the serious humanitarian and economic needs in Gaza and to allow for the safe and unhindered access of humanitarian assistance and personnel to the Palestinian people and to ensure the unimpeded provision of humanitarian supplies throughout Gaza;

6. Decides to remain seized of the matter."

panopticon
20th November 2012, 05:24
RT is reporting that the US is sending 3 War Ships to the region so as to be able to evacuate US Citizens if needed:


Nov. 20 05:08 GMT: The US is sending three warships into the eastern Mediterranean in case they are needed for the evacuation of American citizens from Israel during the coming days, US officials have told CNN. The government sources stressed the ships’ presence was aimed at assisting Americans and not combat. (RT)

CNN report available here (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/19/world/meast/gaza-israel-us-warships/).

Updates:

Barak Ravid (Diplomatic correspondent, Haaretz Newspaper):

After a 4 hour meeting tonight the forum of 9 ministers decided to continue pushing on the diplomatic track and hold off on Gaza invasion.
Israel decided to give more time to Egyptian cease fire mediation in order to gain more international legitimacy if invasion is needed.
Senior Israeli official: Netanyahu wants to see if he can get a long term comprehensive cease fire before ordering ground operation in Gaza
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid) -- Feed)

From AJ:

The head of the Arab League and a group of Arab foreign ministers will visit Gaza today to show solidarity with the Palestinians.

astrid
20th November 2012, 05:56
3emLCYB9j8c

panopticon
20th November 2012, 07:06
3emLCYB9j8c

Another exceptional presentation Astrid.
The 'Thank You' button just isn't enough...
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon
20th November 2012, 08:47
Hillary Clinton is heading to the Middle East to assist in Gaza/Israel cease fire negotiations... (Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/20/us-palestinians-israel-whitehouse-idUSBRE8AJ0CB20121120) CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/20/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html))

Hillary Clinton has arrived and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will arrive tomorrow. Israel is concerned that Ban Ki-moon will be pro-Palestinian while Palestinians are concerned Hillary Clinton will be pro-Israel Government...
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler) -- Feed)

For information on the 3 Israeli's who were killed:
The victims of Kiryat Malakhi attack: Mira Scharf, Itzik Amsalem, Aharon Smadja (http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/the-victims-of-kiryat-malakhi-attack-mira-scharf-itzik-amsalem-aharon-smadja.premium-1.478179).

Interesting article on the early (late 19th/ early 20th Century) history of Jewish settlers and the local Arab population (Haaretz):
New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements (http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/new-documents-reveal-early-palestinian-attitudes-toward-zionist-settlements.premium-1.475085)

astrid
20th November 2012, 09:52
http://rt.com/news/postpones-ground-operation-netanyahu-128/



"Israel’s PM has reportedly pushed back by 24 hours an IDF ground invasion into Gaza, RT’s Middle East bureau chief said. The announcement precedes a series of critical international negotiations pushing for a ceasefire between the two sides."

astrid
20th November 2012, 10:42
From Harrys FB page, just now.. .

"URGENT: Russia Today (English language international terrestrial news channel) with a viewership of 2 million has asked me to act as a Gazan correspondent as the Gaza onslaught continues. Their viewership is 1000x more than my live feed. They will not change my content, although my style would fit their channel. If I don't take the role someone else will; I am a very strong voice for the Palestinian narrative. I need urgent feedback from conscientious thinkers on whether I should take this temporary reporting role on RT. If I take it, the live stream will almost certainly not continue."

It's a no brainer really.. the coverage is huge,
the world needs to be informed, unless its a trap and
someone is trying to shut him up....

But, RT does appear be fairly independent, if there is any such thing in media
terms given the times we are in.

I guess the question is if anyone is pulling strings from behind the scenes.

panopticon
20th November 2012, 11:21
...

Paul Danahar:

Hamas says will soon carry important announcement from Head of the military wing of Hamas Mohamed Dief
...
Head of the Hamas military wing Mohamed Deif in Gaza says their fighters should be ready for a ground war with Israel

It's very rare that Head of the Hamas military wing Mohamed Deif in Gaza makes statements. He was Jabari's boss

Rare statement warning of war by Hamas' Mohamed Deif in Gaza could be to strengthen hand of political wing during ceasefire negotiations
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed)

Billy
20th November 2012, 12:51
George Galloway exposes the lies of Israel and the western governments. Stand up and make a change. Demand change, protest and speak about this grotesque injustice at every turn. Your government is not giving you democracy, you're gonna have to take it.

-MWKH5s4ZJ8

30mins but worth every min. 20mins with George and 10mins with Harry (no) fear. please listen

I have great respect for George

Peace

panopticon
20th November 2012, 13:29
The BBC and Al Jazeera are reporting that there may be a cease fire announced in the next few hours.


Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi, who is leading international efforts to broker a ceasefire, says he expects Israeli "aggression" against Gaza to end on Tuesday.
(BBC)

Mean while:


Protesters in Bethlehem being hit with huge quantities of tear gas. Looks like Israeli troops inside refugee camp.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/YolandeKnell) -- Feed)


Rockets go off and missiles come in - This wouldn't be the first time a cease-fire in #Gaza has been preceded by a flurry of "activity"
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/WyreDavies) -- Feed)


Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid reporting from Sderot said that they had just heard some loud noises. She said that while Israeli army had upscaled, they did not seem ready for a ground attack.
(AJ)


Nov. 20, 13:14 GMT: The Arab League delegation, led by Nabil Arabi, arrived at the Rafah border crossing in a show of solidarity with Palestinian people.
(RT)


Morsi's comments, Deif's "revenge has been taken' & the sudden flurry of an exchange of rockets suggests a ceasefire might really be close
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed)


FM Lieberman told UNSG Ban that if Israel goes on a ground operation in Gaza it will be a full scale invasion and not a limited incursion
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid) -- Feed)

Al Jazeera report that there is a build-up of troops (30,000) in the South Israel border with Gaza. Also leaflet drops are reported in the border area telling civilians to leave the border areas and which way to leave. (AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/leaflets-urge-gaza-city-residents-evacuate-their-homes))

pIqgU6IRvFs

3vqVeOXBe8Q


Egyptian President Morsi has hinted that a ceasefire is imminent in the coming hours but our correspondent says local media reports, quoting unnamed senior officials, say Clinton will be announcing a US-EU-Egyptian-brokered ceasefire after her arrival.
AJ


We are dropping flyers over #Gaza right now, warning civilians to stay away from #Hamas operatives and facilities. (@IDFSpokesperson)

Hamas is everywhere: it is the govt., the police, the civil services. How are people meant to avoid Hamas? (@harryfear)

astrid
20th November 2012, 14:09
Death toll is now at 120, Harry just read out 115 of them,
the rest is yet to be identified.

Sammy
20th November 2012, 14:46
The BBC and Al Jazeera are reporting that there may be a cease fire announced in the next few hours.


Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi, who is leading international efforts to broker a ceasefire, says he expects Israeli "aggression" against Gaza to end on Tuesday.
(BBC)

Mean while:


Protesters in Bethlehem being hit with huge quantities of tear gas. Looks like Israeli troops inside refugee camp.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/YolandeKnell) -- Feed)


Rockets go off and missiles come in - This wouldn't be the first time a cease-fire in #Gaza has been preceded by a flurry of "activity"
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/WyreDavies) -- Feed)


Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid reporting from Sderot said that they had just heard some loud noises. She said that while Israeli army had upscaled, they did not seem ready for a ground attack.
(AJ)


Nov. 20, 13:14 GMT: The Arab League delegation, led by Nabil Arabi, arrived at the Rafah border crossing in a show of solidarity with Palestinian people.
(RT)


Morsi's comments, Deif's "revenge has been taken' & the sudden flurry of an exchange of rockets suggests a ceasefire might really be close
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/pdanahar) -- Feed)


FM Lieberman told UNSG Ban that if Israel goes on a ground operation in Gaza it will be a full scale invasion and not a limited incursion
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid) -- Feed)

Al Jazeera report that there is a build-up of troops (30,000) in the South Israel border with Gaza. Also leaflet drops are reported in the border area telling civilians to leave the border areas and which way to leave. (AJ (http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/leaflets-urge-gaza-city-residents-evacuate-their-homes))

pIqgU6IRvFs

3vqVeOXBe8Q


Egyptian President Morsi has hinted that a ceasefire is imminent in the coming hours but our correspondent says local media reports, quoting unnamed senior officials, say Clinton will be announcing a US-EU-Egyptian-brokered ceasefire after her arrival.
AJ


We are dropping flyers over #Gaza right now, warning civilians to stay away from #Hamas operatives and facilities. (@IDFSpokesperson)

Hamas is everywhere: it is the govt., the police, the civil services. How are people meant to avoid Hamas? (@harryfear)

EDIT / CORRECTION - this post has an error in that I somehow concluded the reporter with the "swat team" type protection gear was a BBC reporter which panopticon pointed out in a post below that I was wrong. I truly apologize for the error to all. I leave my post with the error in hopes that some can get the lerger point (as long as they can see past my error). justonebloke/Chester

Look at the outfit of the Al-Jazeera reporter and look at the outfit of the BBC reporter. The "overt western reporting mechanism" brings your attention to fear of death of the body. The Al-Jazeera reporter gives one a different impression - an impression of courage in relationship to fear for their own physical body.

See it? The "dance" See how one side projects fear and the other side projects courage? So what does this produce? The fearful side produces massive fire power. The courageous side produces human bombs and human shields. Both sides produce war. A war that is managed by third parties.

A war that could not exist if the 4th element - "the people" refused to participate in the drama by choosing sides, by arguing about who is right, about pulling out some convenient version of history that no one knows how much truth there is to it and then... and then "we" "the people" figure all that out and yet fail to learn the lesson because "we" "the people" then point the finger at the PTBs.

When we stop participating in war at every level of our being. War goes away.

I dare you to go through the day and write down each and every time you discovered yourself angry and then at the end of the day, review it all and ask yourself in each case how justified you were in each instance of your anger.

Because I have found for myself that it is always and only my responsibility with regards to reacting with anger as opposed to reacting with understanding.

All this mess is all our fault. WE (the PTBs, side A (either Arab or Israeli), side B (either Israeli or Arab) and "we" "the people") all must wake up and get a clue. All 4 components to this mess must see this.

Well, and then there's the 5th element - the few who simply withdraw and do their hermit routine... something I can certainly understand anyone doing.

Anyways (I digressed) - Only then will we be able to deal with the non physical and/or non-3rd dimensional forces that influence our experience.

Why has this become so difficult for us? Don't we care about the world we hand to our children?

"No one's right, when everybody's wrong" - Stephen Stills

panopticon
20th November 2012, 15:02
Look at the outfit of the Al-Jazeera reporter and look at the outfit of the BBC reporter. The "overt western reporting mechanism" brings your attention to fear of death of the body. The Al-Jazeera reporter gives one a different impression - an impression of courage in relationship to fear for their own physical body.

Bloke, they're both from Al Jazeera. One is in Gaza, the other in South Israel.



I dare you to go through the day and write down each and every time you discovered yourself angry and then at the end of the day, review it all and ask yourself in each case how justified you were in each instance of your anger.

I don't get angry so that would be a blank page...
How Zen...


Because I have found for myself that it is always and only my responsibility with regards to reacting with anger as opposed to reacting with understanding.

All this mess is all our fault. WE (the PTBs, side A (either Arab or Israeli), side B (either Israeli or Arab) and "we" "the people") all must wake up and get a clue. All 4 components to this mess must see this.

Well, and then there's the 5th element - the few who simply withdraw and do their hermit routine... something I can certainly understand anyone doing.

Anyways (I digressed) - Only then will we be able to deal with the non physical and/or non-3rd dimensional forces that influence our experience.

Why has this become so difficult for us? Don't we care about the world we hand to our children?

"No one's right, when everybody's wrong" - Stephen Stills

Your experience is different from mine and I am glad you have found a way of thinking about the world that makes you happy.

Billy
20th November 2012, 15:17
Oh dear Lord

rE8r7c1ccO4

peace

panopticon
20th November 2012, 15:29
The UN has blasted the IDF for faking video of Hamas using a UN school in Gaza as a rocket launch site. (RT (http://rt.com/news/un-hamas-idf-video-166/))

modwiz
20th November 2012, 15:31
Look at the outfit of the Al-Jazeera reporter and look at the outfit of the BBC reporter. The "overt western reporting mechanism" brings your attention to fear of death of the body. The Al-Jazeera reporter gives one a different impression - an impression of courage in relationship to fear for their own physical body.

Bloke, they're both from Al Jazeera. One is in Gaza, the other in South Israel.



That was my take. A picture is still worth a thousand words.

Carmody
20th November 2012, 15:42
Some may be forgiven if they tend to think that in some level of retrospect...that the US election was all about seeing if the US was going to be flowing through this situation completely in tow and 'in line' with it (republican win), or as a slightly disconnected observer (democrat win).

For it might be obvious that this particular sequence of events in the middle east....was going to be taking place, regardless.

panopticon
20th November 2012, 15:43
There are reports that a cease fire will come into effect tonight...
Guess time will tell if that is right.


Ayman Taha Hamas spokesman in Cairo tells BBC there will be a ceasefire coming into effect tonight.
...
Israeli PM office says no comment on Hamas spokesman Ayman Taha in Cairo saying ceasefire will come into effect tonight.
...
Egyptian official in Cairo tells BBC ceasefire to be announced in Cairo tonight. Hamas official tells BBC the same.
...
Reliable Palestinian source in Cairo says ceasefire has been agreed in principal but not final until announced by President Morsi.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/JonDonnison) -- Feed)


2 senior Israeli officials: cease fire in Gaza might start this evening - within a few hours - during SecState Clinton's visit to Jerusalem
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BarakRavid) -- Feed)


Still conflicting reports on whether gaza israel ceasefire will be announced tonight
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/bbclysedoucet) -- Feed)

Al Jazeera has just reported that a joint press conference looks likely in a few hours to announce a cease fire. (AJ)


"There will be a joint press conference between Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the Egyptian mediators tonight to announce the truce," an Islamic Jihad source told AFP, while a Hamas source confirmed the announcement.

Terms of the ceasefire have been announced by Hamas, Islamic jihad and Egyptian government representative:

Stop assassinations
Stop rocket fire from gaza
Ease border crossings ( not open totally)
The guarantor of ceasefire is the Egyptian government.
(AJ)

A Hamas official has told Al Jazeera that a truce is to be announced @ 19:00 GMT and come into effect @ 22:00 GMT. No comment from the Israeli Government. (AJ)

Earlier... Statement from Ban Ki-moon and Netanyahu in Jerusalem:

OzNciFt9Oq0


IDF air strikes have intensified.

Nickolai
20th November 2012, 18:09
3emLCYB9j8c

Dear Astrid,

Thank you very much. It could be an eye-opener for me but first I would ask for kind comments from the Israel Avalon members.
If the story the girl shares is even partly true I can give garanty that most of the population here has no idea about it.
Here people mostly think that the palestinian people live everywhere in Israel and can easily travel through the country.

Please, Israeli people share your view!

Thank you

PS What a time we live in!

Sammy
20th November 2012, 19:29
Look at the outfit of the Al-Jazeera reporter and look at the outfit of the BBC reporter. The "overt western reporting mechanism" brings your attention to fear of death of the body. The Al-Jazeera reporter gives one a different impression - an impression of courage in relationship to fear for their own physical body.

Bloke, they're both from Al Jazeera. One is in Gaza, the other in South Israel.



I dare you to go through the day and write down each and every time you discovered yourself angry and then at the end of the day, review it all and ask yourself in each case how justified you were in each instance of your anger.

I don't get angry so that would be a blank page...
How Zen...


Because I have found for myself that it is always and only my responsibility with regards to reacting with anger as opposed to reacting with understanding.

All this mess is all our fault. WE (the PTBs, side A (either Arab or Israeli), side B (either Israeli or Arab) and "we" "the people") all must wake up and get a clue. All 4 components to this mess must see this.

Well, and then there's the 5th element - the few who simply withdraw and do their hermit routine... something I can certainly understand anyone doing.

Anyways (I digressed) - Only then will we be able to deal with the non physical and/or non-3rd dimensional forces that influence our experience.

Why has this become so difficult for us? Don't we care about the world we hand to our children?

"No one's right, when everybody's wrong" - Stephen Stills

Your experience is different from mine and I am glad you have found a way of thinking about the world that makes you happy.

Hi, I apologize... it looks like I was wrong. I saw that person yesterday on what I thought was BBC - is it possible BBC picked it up? Again, apologies. Maybe I had a freudian confusion - something that happens to me all the time.

Also, in all honesty, if I were there in the middle east I am certain I would find myself dead quite fast. Why? Because whenever I am around injustice (as best as I can judge it) I jump right in. That's at least the way I have reacted to things all my life. Strangely I am still alive.

What I have recently concluded about the quantum nature of my universe is how I attract what my consciousness wants (my entire consciousness - the part I am aware of and my sub conscious). What I did was awaken to the part of me that was asleep and then took that long, hard look in the mirror - and then began the process of undoing all the lies I told myself and bought into. I then united the hidden part with my consciousness of which I am aware. I then realized I was only at war with myself. I then decided I did not want war anymore. And now I have awakened to how/why war exists in the world.

I changed my mind and stopped hating myself. I believe the world would change in the blink of an eye if we all stopped hating ourselves, but what do I know about what is the case for anyone else nor if the collective would agree.

Still, by going through this process, these perspectives I have given in this thread as well as in other places in the Avalon forum are honest renditions of my ever emerging new reality.

Since I am achieving peace every day in my life at a far greater percentage than I ever experienced before, I suspect I may be on the right track. I share these things in hopes others may try them as well and that if they work for others, maybe indeed the world I see would transform as well. What motivates me is the fact I leave the world I see to my children. You can take that last sentence as literal as well as a metaphor and both interpretations would be correct.

I will correct my error in the post above.

Love to You, Chester

Mutchie
20th November 2012, 20:24
it seemed to me like the Israelies couldnt get the american elections over and done fast enough cause right after the elections they escalated the war with the palistinians now im wandering just how far they will go ?

NancyV
20th November 2012, 21:08
Why are the Palestinians prevented from traveling freely through Israel? Well, when they were able to travel more freely in Israel there were many suicide bombings on buses, in cafes and in other crowded areas. The only way Israel could cut back on these attacks, which reached a peak in the 90's, was to further restrict the movements of all Palestinians. They could have built a permanent fence around their borders but were not willing to define the borders conclusively. The suffering of the Palestinian people is due to the terror groups who continue to randomly attack Israel and Israelis. I don't see any good solution happening any time soon because of the mindset of the terror groups who won't likely change their burning desire to kill all Jews. On top of all that we have the hidden hand of those who purposely manipulate humans, governments and groups for ultimately unknown reasons. The game is different at each level.

Why won't surrounding Arab states take in more Palestinians? Many of the surrounding Arab countries have plenty of land and room for their Palestinian brothers, but they restrict the immigration of Palestinians. Could it be that having the Palestinians living in abject conditions serves their purposes of gaining sympathy for them and creating more outrage towards the Jews? Could it be that they benefit by having such close access to Israel where they can continue their stated purpose of wiping the Israelis off the face of the earth?

Undoubtedly there are many reasons why it benefits countries who hate Israel and Jews to keep the Palestinians right there and in continual suffering. Iran and Syria are major sponsors of Hamas and keep them well supplied with weapons. Palestinians knowingly voted in the terrorist group of Hamas as their leaders. This would seem to suggest that most Palestinians do not want to have peace with Israel but want Israel to be destroyed completely.

I have a powerful memory of meeting a nice Lebanese man in Las Vegas in about 1976. We talked for several hours and he told me his story of how he came to leave everything behind in Lebanon. His beautiful city of Beirut was basically taken over by anti Christian Muslims. They were helped by the PLO-Palestinian Liberation Organization who were instrumental in instigating the 15 year civil war. About 120,000 Lebanese were killed and over a million fled the country. He was crying when he told me it was because they had let too many Palestinians into Lebanon and his country, the country he knew, was destroyed. Beirut was considered to be the "Paris of the Middle East" but became a terrorist hangout. Now Hezbollah controls Lebanon. Hezbollah is controlled by Iran and is another of the many terrorist organizations that want to annihilate Jews.

Yasser Arafat, was not only the founder of Fatah but he was the leader and chairman of the PLO from 1964 until his death. When my husband first told me in 1996 that Arafat was a terrorist I was completely ignorant of that fact, but after doing some research I realize that he is right.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/arafat.html#legacy


For nearly half a century Arafat was the symbol of Palestinian nationalism. Though he was not a military man, he was rarely seen out of his uniform in an effort to project strength and his commitment to armed struggle. He wore his kaffiyeh in a unique fashion, draped over his shoulder in the shape of Palestine, that is, all of historic Palestine, including Israel. The high-profile terrorist attacks he directed helped gain international attention and sympathy for the Palestinian cause, but, ultimately, his unwillingness to make the psychological leap from terrorist mastermind to statesman prevented him from achieving independence for the Palestinian people, and brought them decades of suffering that could have been avoided had he abandoned his revolutionary zeal for liberating Palestine and agreed to live in peace with Israel.

Those of you who support the Palestinians are inadvertently or knowingly supporting the philosophy and goals of Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, Iran and Syria which includes genocide against the Jews. These groups believe in Sharia law, so you are also helping support brutal abuse against women and their continued repression. Certainly you are spreading hate for Jews which may ultimately come back to haunt you. Eventually you will find out that not only do Hezbollah, Hamas the PLO and other radical Muslims hate Jews, they hate you too. You are an infidel if you are not born a Muslim.

Neither side is without responsibility for this ongoing conflict, but when one chooses a side without knowing much about what is and has been going on, it's just plain stupid. In fact I don't really care at all what's going on because both sides are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing considering the game they are engaged in playing here. Then when I read this continued ignorant crap from the pro Palestinian and anti Israeli contingent I am reminded why things are the way they are. Most people are too effing stupid to create anything better. We always get exactly what we are supposed to get and experience exactly what we have chosen to have in our lives which will lead to our highest good, no matter how ugly it looks to us.

PathWalker
20th November 2012, 22:04
I have just read this article from aljazeera.
Hamas blames Israel for 'delay' of truce deal
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112017334535964.html


A Hamas official has said that the anticipated announcement of a Gaza truce agreement with Israel has been delayed.

Ezzat al-Rishq told Reuters news agency that there would be no announcement until Wednesday.

"The Israeli side has not responded yet, so we will not hold a [news] conference this evening and must wait until tomorrow," said Rishq.

"The truce is now held up because we are waiting for the Israeli side to respond."

Another Hamas official, Ayman Taha, had earlier told Reuters that the truce would be declared and in effect by 22:00GMT on Tuesday night.

There was no immediate Israeli comment on the Hamas statement or on the prospect of a ceasefire, although an Israeli spokesperson has said the deal is not quite finalised.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in Jerusalem on Tuesday night and has met Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu.

In a press conference with Netanyahu, Clinton re-iterated the US commitment to the Israeli government.

"President Obama asked me to come to Israel with a very clear message: America’s commitment to Israel’s security is rock-solid and unwavering. That is why we believe that it is essential to de-escalate the situation in Gaza," said Clinton.

"The rocket attacks from terrorist organisations from inside Gaza on Israeli cities and towns must end, and a broader calm restored. The goal must be a durable outcome that promotes regional stability and advances the security and legitimate aspirations or Israelis and Palestinians alike."

Clinton is expected to meet with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday. She will not be meeting Hamas officials.

Al Jazeera's Peter Greste, reporting from Cairo, said that it is best to approach the news of an imminent truce deal with caution.

"It's one thing for this agreement to be signed, it's quite another for it to be implemented," said Greste.

"But here's what we do understand is to be contained in this agreement: Firstly, that Israel has agreed to stop targeted assassinations of Hamas leaders. Secondly, that Hamas has agreed to stop firing rockets over the border into Israel," said Greste.

"Thridly, that the border restrictions into Gaza will be eased, but we don't know quite what that means - we don't know what restrictions will be lifted."

He added that Egypt would be the guarantor of the agreement.

The terms of the truce, first hinted at by Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, have not yet been disclosed. Egypt has been trying to negotiate a ceasefire with the help of Qatar and Turkey.

Al Jazeera's Nisreen El-Shamayleh, reporting from Jerusalem, said that Israeli media outlets have been quoting unnamed officials who say that Clinton will announce a ceasefire agreement negotiated by the US, Egyptian and the European Union.

"This kind of goes along with what we've heard coming out of Cairo, with the newly-elected president, Mohamed Morsi, hinting to journalists that a ceasefire is imminent," said El-Shamayleh.

US President Barack Obama called Morsi for the third time in 24 hours on Tuesday to "commended" his efforts to secure a ceasefire in Gaza, the White House said.

"He commended President Morsi's efforts to pursue a de-escalation" in the Gaza Strip, said Ben Rhodes deputy national security advisor.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon held talks with Netanyahu in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

'Regrettably, I'm back again in the region only nine months since my last visit, because of violence in Israel and Gaza...the world is extremely concerned at the rising loss of human lives," Ban said.

He will also meet Abbas to discuss the crisis.

Earlier on Tuesday, Ban met the Arab League chief, Nabil el-Araby, in Cairo and called for support for Morsi's efforts to mediate a truce in the conflict.

A delegation of nine Arab ministers, led by Mohamed Amr, Egyptian foreign minister, visited Gaza in a further signal of heightened Arab solidarity with the Palestinians.

El-Araby said a ceasefire is not the the real issue facing Gaza.

"The real problem is not a truce. The real problem that the Arab and Islamic countries and all friendly countries in the world must focus on is ending the occupation," said el-Araby.

The Israeli military has struck more than 1,450 targets in Gaza since attacks began on Wednesday. Since then, 760 rockets have hit Israel while about 400 others have been intercepted by Israel's anti-missile system.

More than 130 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, and more than 920 injured. Four Israeli civilians and one Israeli soliders have been killed in the conflict that has also left dozens of Israelis injured.

I am really amazed that the article is balanced and correct with details. I did not expect that from Aljazeera.

PathWalker
20th November 2012, 22:18
Those of you who support the Palestinians are inadvertently or knowingly supporting the philosophy and goals of Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, Iran and Syria which includes genocide against the Jews. These groups believe in Sharia law, so you are also helping support brutal abuse against women and their continued repression. Certainly you are spreading hate for Jews which may ultimately come back to haunt you. Eventually you will find out that not only do Hezbollah, Hamas the PLO and other radical Muslims hate Jews, they hate you too. You are an infidel if you are not born a Muslim.

Neither side is without responsibility for this ongoing conflict, but when one chooses a side without knowing much about what is and has been going on, it's just plain stupid. In fact I don't really care at all what's going on because both sides are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing considering the game they are engaged in playing here. Then when I read this continued ignorant crap from the pro Palestinian and anti Israeli contingent I am reminded why things are the way they are. Most people are too effing stupid to create anything better. We always get exactly what we are supposed to get and experience exactly what we have chosen to have in our lives which will lead to our highest good, no matter how ugly it looks to us.

I would suggest more ballanced view.
Those who are supporting one side of the conflict and are not native victims of the region. Are captured by propaganda. No matter what.

If people really cared for Arabs humanitarian cause, 100 casualties is the daily death toll in Syria. And currently 2 million Arabs are slaved and hungry in South-Sudan.

If you personally care for the region and not native. Then ask your self why are you emotionally involved in this story, and not other humanitarian crisis in China, Kurds and North Korea.

If you are emotionally involved. Maybe someone or something is working out to make you emotionally involved in this marginal conflict (compared to real humanitarian crisis around the world - famine, war, nature disasters).

161803398
20th November 2012, 22:42
Palestinians are prevented from travelling freely through Palestine.

PathWalker
20th November 2012, 22:49
Palestinians are prevented from travelling freely through Palestine.
Israelis are prevented from traveling freely through Israel.

It is a never ending story. The more we put attention to it the more we fuel it. It is a distraction.
There are other humanitarian and political issues around the globe, that are the real news. See this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?41059-Massive-Bank-and-High-Profile-Resignations-Across-the-World

161803398
20th November 2012, 22:55
do you have long lines at checkpoints in Israel?

PathWalker
20th November 2012, 23:00
do you have long lines at checkpoints in Israel?
There are closed roads in Israel. There are roads closed by night.
There are roads guarded 24x7 by police (not traffic patrols).
There are temporary police checkpoints on roads, instated within 15 min. Occuring every few weeks, not reported by MSM.

If you did not know by now. Israel is a police state. But not as much as the USA.

161803398
20th November 2012, 23:01
Can you get to work or school or visit your family?

161803398
20th November 2012, 23:27
http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

panopticon
20th November 2012, 23:44
Meanwhile the bombings continue...

There have been mentions in the various correspondents twitter feeds (I look at these as they are raw reactions as opposed to balanced [sanitised] reporting) that there is still talk of a cease fire.
Problems seem to be in the agreement on how to implement a cease fire (amongst the various factions and the IDF) and that there is a chance of a limited IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip (following the leaflet drop). There is a lot of "sabre rattling" going on.

There is also the difficulty of the various factions and the IDF/Israeli Government (ahead of upcoming elections) "saving face" with their people.

Hamas gunmen have executed 6 alleged Israeli informers and one body was dragged through the streets behind a motorcycle. As NancyV points out, Hamas is a fundamentalist religious organisation. Never forget what this means. The increased rise of fundamentalism, within the Middle East in particular and around the world in general, is reflected in the altered responses from the Arab League and various nation-state representatives (eg Egypt, Turkey) to those made in 2008-2009.

Hillary Clinton says she is assisting Egypt in negotiations and 'in the days ahead' will try to get a peaceful outcome.

XDqI1BkGhUg

161803398
20th November 2012, 23:56
I dont understand why the rise of fundamentalism is being promoted except as a means to create more conflict. For instance, one of the first things the new government in Libya did was to announce Sharia Law. I'm fairly certain this didn't please anyone in Libya except for the al qaeda in Benghazi.

modwiz
20th November 2012, 23:58
Meanwhile the bombings continue...

There have been mentions in the various correspondents twitter feeds (I look at these as they are raw reactions as opposed to balanced [sanitised] reporting) that there is still talk of a cease fire.
Problems seem to be in the agreement on how to implement a cease fire (amongst the various factions and the IDF) and that there is a chance of a limited IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip (following the leaflet drop). There is a lot of "sabre rattling" going on.

There is also the difficulty of the various factions and the IDF/Israeli Government (ahead of upcoming elections) "saving face" with their people.

Hamas gunmen have executed 6 alleged Israeli informers and one body was dragged through the streets behind a motorcycle. As NancyV points out, Hamas is a fundamentalist religious organisation. Never forget what this means. The increased rise of fundamentalism, within the Middle East in particular and around the world in general, is reflected in the altered responses from the Arab League and various nation-state representatives (eg Egypt, Turkey) to those made in 2008-2009.

Hillary Clinton says she is assisting Egypt in negotiations and 'in the days ahead' will try to get a peaceful outcome.

XDqI1BkGhUg

She looks 20 years younger here than she did just weeks ago. Jerusalem must have some really good make-up artists. Even her neck looks rejuvenated. It was the first thing that caught my eye when I saw the video posted. Hillary looks a decade or two younger.

161803398
21st November 2012, 00:26
Researchers from Human Rights Watch noted that all
of the white phosphorus shells they found in Gaza were manufactured
in the United States with markings denoting their production in April 1989 by
Tiokol Aerospace, which then operated the Louisiana Army Ammunition Plant.
http://aidtoisrael.org/downloads/Policy_Paper_print.pdf

astrid
21st November 2012, 00:29
MW- i noticed that too, the clones are getting younger

Flash
21st November 2012, 00:31
:rolleyes:No make up artists, no clones, she has had stem cells implanted with blood tranfusion, from babies cells and blood, to rejuvenate her body.

Belle
21st November 2012, 00:31
Pillar of Cloud. Interesting. Brings to mind the Old Testament story of the 'pillar' that led Moses and his people out of Egypt...of course, they ended up wandering the desert for 40 years before being led to the 'promised land'...where they proceed to slaughter the people already living there and take over their land. The 'chosen people' being led by their God Yahweh who promised ‘I, the LORD your God will send my terror ahead of you and throw every nation you encounter into confusion…I will drive out all these peoples before you, and you will dispossess nations larger and stronger than you. Every place you set your foot will be yours…Your territory will extend from the desert to Lebanon, and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea. No one will be able to stand against you and I, the LORD your God will put terror and dread of you on the whole land, wherever you go….”
–“Yahweh”, the God of Israel speaking to the Israelites through Moses, Books of Exodus and Deuteronomy

So what does this have to do with this thread and the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian's of Gaza? Maybe nothing...but it's been on my mind for a few days now...especially the question “so where is Yahweh and why is he not holding up his end of the bargain he made with his 'chosen people'?” The Old Testament is full of stories whereby the Israelites invade, kill everyone and everything, collect the spoils, burn the cities and with no losses. Israel purposely (imo) makes the connection to the past in the present...such as in calling this action “Pillar of Cloud”.

So what's gone wrong? All those promises by their god to “drive out” the various peoples living there has not happened. The assurance that “Every place you set your foot will be yours“ has turned out to be one giant goose egg. The plan to make their territory extend “from the desert to Lebanon, and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea”...not happening. The “No one will be able to stand against you and I, the LORD your God will put terror and dread of you on the whole land, wherever you go” is not materializing.

Quite the contrary, the Palestinians are not giving up. The harder the Arabs are hit… the more miserable their lives are made, the stronger their resolve to survive. Whereas the “Christian” world cowers in fear merely at the prospect of being called names by the Jews, Palestinian Muslim children stare down Israeli soldiers and tanks KNOWING they will be blown to bits and have no fear in their hearts, and again, in effect making a liar out of Yahweh and his promises of “putting terror” into the hearts of Israel’s enemies.

If there is no “terror” being put in the hearts and minds of Israel’s enemies, could there possibly be no “Yahweh” to put it there? What other surprises are there in store? What other ideas upon which the Jewish state and Jewish identity have been founded are also rooted in possible myth and/or fantasy? If their Yahweh is revealed for a fraud, they cease being the “chosen” people “destined” to rule the world while “making footstools” of all their enemies.

Is this why innocent men, women and children have to be bombed into oblivion, to keep the delusion alive, and to stave off coming to grips with the truth that they have formed their identity around notions rooted in superiority and unadulterated narcissism. By virtue of this latest slaughter that is deliberately targeting women and children, citizens and journalists, what the Jewish state and its supporters throughout the world are saying in effect is–

“We are barbarians…We hold no value in the lives of Gentiles who were created by the god of Israel to serve us…You will see things our way and you will participate in our delusion even if it means the consummation of all life on earth, and by our actions you now know we are willing to do it…”

If there is one theme shoved down the throats of the Gentile world now for the last 4,000 years it’s that Israel, both as a people and now as a nation–is not like “other” nations.

The next big question floating around in my mind, “is this a myth that the leadership of Israel deliberately perpetuates to achieve their objectives, whatever that may be atm, or do they really believe it to be true?”

astrid
21st November 2012, 00:33
Listening to Harrys live stream...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

no idea how you would sleep in that ,

His latest Tweets are getting chilling, the block he is in was hit just a little while ago.

Praying for this madness to stop..

161803398
21st November 2012, 00:47
http://bit.ly/Wva1p1 Increased attacks on Gaza.

RunningDeer
21st November 2012, 00:51
Meanwhile the bombings continue...

There have been mentions in the various correspondents twitter feeds (I look at these as they are raw reactions as opposed to balanced [sanitised] reporting) that there is still talk of a cease fire.
Problems seem to be in the agreement on how to implement a cease fire (amongst the various factions and the IDF) and that there is a chance of a limited IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip (following the leaflet drop). There is a lot of "sabre rattling" going on.

There is also the difficulty of the various factions and the IDF/Israeli Government (ahead of upcoming elections) "saving face" with their people.

Hamas gunmen have executed 6 alleged Israeli informers and one body was dragged through the streets behind a motorcycle. As NancyV points out, Hamas is a fundamentalist religious organisation. Never forget what this means. The increased rise of fundamentalism, within the Middle East in particular and around the world in general, is reflected in the altered responses from the Arab League and various nation-state representatives (eg Egypt, Turkey) to those made in 2008-2009.

Hillary Clinton says she is assisting Egypt in negotiations and 'in the days ahead' will try to get a peaceful outcome.

XDqI1BkGhUg

She looks 20 years younger here than she did just weeks ago. Jerusalem must have some really good make-up artists. Even her neck looks rejuvenated. It was the first thing that caught my eye when I saw the video posted. Hillary looks a decade or two younger.

Hillary clone...

nizkri
21st November 2012, 01:28
Crap! I thought the only good thing about Obummer getting back in was that Israel wouldn't be as aggressive as they would be with Rumeny. Well, looks like that psychopath in Isreal wants his war come hell or high water.

Doesnt matter bro , if its red or blue , you dont have a choice , its all part of the illusion , the elites agenda will be fulfilled no matter what puppet gets elected ,, it only gives us a felling of we have something to say , to make a difference , its all just a big illusion ..

panopticon
21st November 2012, 01:31
The twitter page of Israeli Vice Prime Minister, Silvan Shalom, looks to have been hacked:
http://twitter.com/SilvanShalom

also his official government page (http://www.silvan-shalom.co.il/) and possibly even his farcebuck page...

Updates:

RT just reported on the Hack:


The Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube accounts of Israeli Deputy Premier Silvan Shalom have been hacked and filled with pro-Palestine status updates. ZCompanyHackingCrew claimed responsibility for this latest act of cyber war against Israel.
The group also claims to have hacked Shalom’s email and extracted personal mail, contacts and documents. The hackers announced plans to release the documents shortly.
In Shalom's hijacked Twitter feed, the hacker group posted calls for protest against "unjust war and occupation," and asked, "Who can bare to see the horror, the deaths of children and innocent people trying to protect their occupied land?"
RT (http://rt.com/news/anonymous-hack-israel-vice-prime-minister-200/)

panopticon
21st November 2012, 02:47
Where is Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in all this?
He seems to have been made largely irrelevant in the negotiations for a cease fire.
There again, he always seemed a little irrelevant.
So where does that leave the people in the West Bank? Seems as though recent demonstrations are showing a growing support base for Hamas there as well.
Wonder how those who put him in power, by "recognising" him, are going to deal with this.
The move by the Palestinian "Government" for non-member observer status will be voted on on the 29th (Israel's Government is against it as are the US).
Makes a bloke think...

Interesting article I came across (when I started thinking about it) here (http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/11/20/palestinians-israel-mahmoud-abbas-idINDEE8AJ0D720121120).

161803398
21st November 2012, 02:53
Elites will make Gazans of us all.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/elites_will_make_gazans_of_us_all/

Carmody
21st November 2012, 03:54
Pillar of Cloud. Interesting. Brings to mind the Old Testament story of the 'pillar' that led Moses and his people out of Egypt...of course, they ended up wandering the desert for 40 years before being led to the 'promised land'...where they proceed to slaughter the people already living there and take over their land.

.... ....



Except for the fact that Egyptians where fanatical record keepers and that there is not one single word, anywhere, about this whole moses-people thing.

And that Moses, if he existed, was an Egyptian. Not even remotely Judaic.

161803398
21st November 2012, 04:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?rCp8JRFA5wI

PathWalker
21st November 2012, 06:02
Can you get to work or school or visit your family?

Every few weeks when there is rocket exchange. Schools shut down, and parents stay home with the kids. The effected population is about 1 Million.
The schools shutdown saved many lives. But stopped the economy. There is negative immigration to the south.

panopticon
21st November 2012, 07:11
WTF??? Now the Israeli Foreign Minister is saying that the government can't invade the Gaza Strip because it's too close to an election... (Ynet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4309430,00.html))
Yet they can call up 30 000 troops, bomb all the infrastructure on the Gaza Strip out of existence, kill 140 people and traumatise the entire region but not actually invade it because there's an election in 2 months...

Sounds like a good way for Netanyahu to save face with the "settlers" and his support base.

Un bloody believable... :faint:

How many millions of dollars have been spent by the IDF?
How much to treat the people effected on both sides?
How much will need to be spent on rebuilding the Gaza Strip?
There are so many "How much" and "How many" questions that I'm staggered...

Flash
21st November 2012, 07:18
Fantastic, showing its real face publically. He will make those that wanted war and have Gaza finished angry if he does not finish the job, and he will make people who did not want the war angry to have started it in the first place. Either way, if he stops, he loses.

I am so sorry for those that had to die in order to save an election and its premier in Israel

astrid
21st November 2012, 07:30
Harry is about to do live updates from his Ustream, in 5 mins...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=12576643&utm_medium=social

Death toll now at 141, from Gaza.

Flash
21st November 2012, 08:07
Harry should have Limor's letter and read it.... an idea...

astrid
21st November 2012, 08:55
9obbRoJQ4BM

Fascinating

PathWalker
21st November 2012, 09:36
Where you put your attention+emotion is the MSM distraction. The real issues are somewhere else.
Here is a simple self test to indicate if you are propaganda victim.

Read this from aljazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112165451749759.html

More than 130 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed since the violence began eight days ago.

A delegation of nine Arab ministers, led by Mohamed Amr, Egyptian foreign minister, visited Gaza in a further signal of heightened Arab solidarity with the Palestinians.

El-Araby said a ceasefire is not the the real issue facing Gaza.

"The real problem is not a truce. The real problem that the Arab and Islamic countries and all friendly countries in the world must focus on is ending the occupation," said el-Araby.

The United Nations Security Council, meanwhile, is due to hold a session on the crisis in Gaza on Wednesday at 15:00 GMT.

The Arab world is distracting you from the real suffering and humanitarian issue of the Syrian public:
http://www.voanews.com/content/winter-poses-deadly-risk-for-syrian-children/1549867.html

DOMIZ, IRAQ — Hundreds of thousands of children who have fled the fighting in Syria are at risk from cold and disease as winter approaches, according to aid agencies. There are fears that scores of vulnerable children could die in the makeshift camps that litter the border regions in countries like Lebanon and Iraq.

An estimated 2.5 million people have fled their homes in Syria because of the fighting. Around 400,000 are registered as refugees in neighboring countries including Iraq, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon.

As this Syrian humanitarian situation escalates, out of eyes of the MSM.
Ask yourself what is your emotional reaction, to the Israeli/Arab conflict.
And what is your emotional reaction to the Syrian conflict.
Notice if there is any difference how it was produced, and why. Is this difference artificially created for you, or you chose it fully consciously.

If your emotional reaction difference is artificial, then you are propaganda victim.

161803398
21st November 2012, 09:44
I think that many people can identify very strongly with the plight of the Palestinian people, particularly in America where there are great concerns about fascism at the moment. Syria is a bit harder to figure out exactly what is going on there. But it is not just information from Palestinians that people are listening to. There are also Jewish people in America who are protesting, as well as others.

panopticon
21st November 2012, 10:23
The focus of this thread is on the present unresolved Israel/Palestinian conflict.

Here is a map showing where some of the conflicts current under way are around the world:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Ongoing_conflicts_around_the_world.svg/500px-Ongoing_conflicts_around_the_world.svg.png

For more information try:
http://www.globalissues.org/issue/83/conflicts-in-africa
http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static1258254223
Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

panopticon
21st November 2012, 10:47
A bomb has exploded on a bus in Tel Aviv.
It was not a suicide bombing.
Police have been in pursuit of bomber/s.
10+ injured, none seriously (unconfirmed).

Updates:

Conflicting reports on who is responsible.
Hamas are claiming responsibility in Gaza but a little known West Bank group have also claimed responsibility.
(Twitter (https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler) -- Feed)


Police commander of Tel Aviv area says only aware of one explosion Now combing area for possible further explosive devices
Katya Adler (https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler)

Official spokesman for Hamas has denied responsibility. (AJ)
Reported that the number injured was 24. No one has claimed responsibility. (AJ)

Sammy
21st November 2012, 11:57
Crap! I thought the only good thing about Obummer getting back in was that Israel wouldn't be as aggressive as they would be with Rumeny. Well, looks like that psychopath in Isreal wants his war come hell or high water.

Doesnt matter bro , if its red or blue , you dont have a choice , its all part of the illusion , the elites agenda will be fulfilled no matter what puppet gets elected ,, it only gives us a felling of we have something to say , to make a difference , its all just a big illusion ..

Yes... sorta reminds me of parents who are getting tired that their children won't grow up.

Sammy
21st November 2012, 12:05
Elites will make Gazans of us all.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/news/elites_will_make_gazans_of_us_all/

Regarding this comment my "less than healthy ego" reacted by saying "speak for yourself... glad my children aren't reading your comment."

And so now a bit more healthy form of my ego will attempt to respond to this comment. - I do not live in Gaza unless I choose to live in Gaza, therefore I cannot be a Gazan unless I choose to be a Gazan.

If I happen to be some "innocent" born into this mess in Gaza (and Israel for that matter) I may not physically survive long enough to reach the point I can personally wake up and be the change I want to see OR... I may.

Such is the reality of the dynamic I seem to exist within. I prolong my agony OR not. I make it through my horrors OR not. What survives in either case is the only actual real me anyways. Just my view, what do I know anyways?

Anyways, I have appreciated many of your posts, 161803398.
Enjoy the Day, Chester