View Full Version : Delusions, Efficient Society & Progress

5th September 2010, 11:29
This is continuation of discussion from "Dollars for Gold" Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5076-Dollars-for-Gold/page3)

Since our reality is a sum of projections by all consciousnesses involved, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3557-The-mess-we-are-in-as-a-projection-of-our-minds) every delusion individual has, affects global scheme of things, enclosing energy in emotional cul-de-sacs, where it just idles pointlessly, or is used by entities that engineered such trap.
Thus I consider seeing things for what they are a matter of great importance, as we need this energy committed toward changing the reality towards freedom.

This post by Peace of mind provides great insight in illusions good and caring people have, that help current system continue to be. Thank you, Peace of Mind, for creating this opportunity. I seriously appreciate it :)
(insights are not in order of original post)

I see your point, but trust me when I tell you that I’m well aware of the propensity of man. However, if man is to go forward, they need to rid themselves of money/currency, It only creates greed. I’m sure there will be some fat cat with sacks of nuggets and militias manning mines. It will just be the same thing…but probably more inhuman.
Delusion: money only creates greed. No it is not. As it was said time and time again, money is a tool used to effectively exchange value. What people recognize as money varied between populations, but rare metals were most commonly recognized. Point is without medium of exchange there can be no trade, without trade, there can be no exchange, and we're back to toiling land using whatever tools we tan make, or live from things we loot or mooch from others. Trade not greed. That some people are deluded that (map) money is territory (goods, food, land, services) it's their problem, as long as this mental derangement does not spread on whole population . Still you blame a tool for mental condition, kinda wrong, don't you think?
Also, by very nature free exchange means freely exchanging of value. If you consider a smile enough payment for your energy- that is your choice, and nobody can stop you from doing just that.
Every "fat cat" out there bases his power on consent of people acknowledging power. It's a matter of system, again. If you deal with those that use power of looting in the same manner you treat those that exchange their energy freely, then you are making world of trouble for yourself.

It’s an exercise to trust in others, I know. What matters, is the way you go about doing things. Energy out=energy in, goes around comes around.
Delusion: Energy out=energy in. It is not. There is entropy involved. The more constrained the system the more entropy. On long enough timeline this means this system is going to die, as there will be no more energy to move things. This is "unity in death" scenario some forces push to. So called "greed" is just reflection of fear of being energy-starved, typical to beings unable to see beyond current system, or hopelessly dependent on it. Problem is, by being stuck in material world we are in precisely the same condition, with only exit option being breaking confines of this world.

On the other hand Attraction, Intent, Allowance, Balance do work and we need to understand how this principles work in our lives. For example: by allowing ourself make judgments about other's life, we open ourselves precisely for that. So is when we decide what is "good" for others.

When we learn how to look at each other as equals, whom can contribute in various ways ( doctor, welder, builder, scientist, teacher, comedian, farmer, gardener, musician, entertainer, thinkers, laborer, inventor, animal care, people care, environmental care,…) we will make extraordinary bounds. There’s not a person on this planet that doesn’t want to live in peace, troubles only comes when we obtain it through greed, place limits.
Delusion: people are equal. They are not. Every single one of us have different knowledge, wisdom and skill-set, and different experiences, some broader than others. Some are more apt to adapting than others too. You cannot bunch people and treat them on 1:1 basis. There are two approach to that problem: you treat people as adults and let them exchange freely, or you create some order/force based system. Now free exchange means there is equal base people can communicate on. This means people are not equal but they treat each other as such, seeking communication and agreement not forcing each other into submission. In other words: equality is matter of perception.

No one should be doing things they don’t want to do…just to sustain themselves in a world they think is a living hell. Most of the world is doing jobs they rather not do…this isn’t right. When we are conditioned to only be inspired to do jobs that supports this corrupt way of living…we are failing. Placing restrictions disturbs the natural flow. We can have far more superior tech and health if there were no boundaries to leap. Being indigeneous doesn't mean we have to go back to loinclothes, either. haha. What I'm talking about is...Responsiblity.We are the only ones creating blockages, why? Holding back others because they don’t have…nuggets…a peace of shiny rock…the same system will create the same problems, nothing will change
Our lives are distorted by the pyramidal energy leeching system (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3095-Society-Patterns). This means our energy does not go where we want, but where those directing the system wants. This generates great deal of fear and misery in our lives. There is very high entropy level involved. It also leeches off energy we should be using towards creative goals. Again , it's not problem of "trinkets" but system we live in and we help to sustain every single day.
Still being in this system we need to take great care where our energy goes. And again - that means going towards free exchange, as systems bordering on chaos have least entropy involved, and they also require moral standards needed to jump beyond material.

We must stop worshipping material? It’s a severe hindrance.
Sure we must stop worshipping material. But we also need to acknowledge situation we are in, without which we cannot make any progress towards going beyond current paradigm. Want is just not enough. As in navigation: you first need to know where you are before taking direction that will take you to destination. If you make mistake in stating starting point, you will not end up where you wanted to.

Over a decade ago, I choose to live meat free and respect every creature on this planet…and beyond. I couldn’t explain to you in any man-made language the amount of love the universe sent back to me. And, I wasn’t looking for a return because doing the things we were meant to do has a beautiful priceless feeling to it, get used to it and the world will open up many doors for you.
Delusion: going meat free changes something. It is not. Unless you consider plant life to be "lesser" beings. As long as we are here in material worlds we kill other beings to sustain ourselves. Choosing one group over another does not change this basic premise. Kramic debt is still there, only you choose to look at it via rose-tinted glasses. This also extend to all organic materials we use in daily life: timber for houses, gas for car, cotton for clothes.
It is very important to realize we constantly borrow matter from the world. Even "our" bodies are made from organized borrowed matter. Fact one need to consider when dealing with the world.
BTW."Love" feeling is similar to that felt in any other sect, as you tap to field of mind-space which is fed by every other vegetarian. This produce similar effect "hormones of happiness" produce in your material brain. This technique is very similar to well known "love bombardment" used by some groups in recruitment. One need to be mighty careful about such effects.

For a species that has the knowledge to prosper efficiently, without destroying the world/and its species…our self pride and indignity will ultimately destroy us…one way or another.
Again, it's a matter of system we helped to build and we are sustaining every single day we function in confines set by it. It could not exists if we would not believe in it, and would not pour energy into it. Problem is, as long as majority of people supports the system, it has means to dispatch "dissidents". Major work is needed to break that situation.

Delusion is just another state of mind, all visions can manifest with enough support. If you believe something is impossible…then there lays the problem
Yes and no. There are levels to constructs we live among. Nations are low level and can be easily banished, not so with causality. By studying reality, you can tell what are things we can change, and what are things to tackle which we need to expand our understanding of things

How you envision the future …it shall be, my only worries are for the children. Their innocence and common sense is always put in jeopardy, raised in a world filled with chaos, and heartless souls...
Children, if raised properly, are quite capable of judging for themselves, and changing world to fit their vision. Problem is, we are constantly crippling them, feeding false values, allegiances, breaking their legs before they learn to walk. World filled with chaos is not something I fear, world filled with machines posing as people is, Order on the brink of thermal death, and that is where are we going, if some forces will have their way. Fear not chaos, as it's bringer of changes and new opportunities.

We have the choice to live any way we choose…there’s consequences in everything we do…whether you like it or not, you always control the outcome…but, will you like the outcome, even more so…have the courage to face up to the inevitable?
There is no other way to do it, but again. one needs to acknowledge the point he is starting from.

We can do this; it’s really that simple…but a fearless intent is reqired.
That I can agree :)

5th September 2010, 12:54
Delusion = Opposite of Illusion

If people are caught up in the illusion, then delusions are good. If people are caught up in their egos distortion of the illusion then delusions are bad.

5th September 2010, 13:03

it deserves correcting:

a. The act or process of deluding.
b. The state of being deluded.
2. A false belief or opinion: labored under the delusion that success was at hand.
3. Psychiatry. A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution.

a. An erroneous perception of reality.
b. An erroneous concept or belief.
2. The condition of being deceived by a false perception or belief.
3. Something, such as a fantastic plan or desire, that causes an erroneous belief or perception.
4. Illusionism in art.
5. A fine transparent cloth, used for dresses or trimmings.

best wishes :wink: l

5th September 2010, 14:58
its nice to see ppl arguing about this. Using long posts and explaining in details what they think is different from the previous poster.

i dont know if i am living in an illusion or if i am deluded or not. All i know and feel to be true is the following (will steal these from our friends up high)

a) "Why should we pay to live in the planet we are born"
b) "How can we stand to see our children becoming inferior than us"
c) (this is mine) "How come life isnt involved in the making/structuring of todays society?" (humans are just workhours calculated in a timetable)

Saico we cant live without money atm but no matter how good and pretty our words are ... money wont become something good ... money have stopped being a manner of easy trade since the dark ages .. maybe more...

5th September 2010, 17:29
So saico we should all eat more meat ,since the amount of water used on one single cow during its process is enough water for one person to take a shower 3 months in a row,i like your analogy tho,when certain places run out of water for good due to the stupid meat industry come back here and post your views again,i would be delighted to hear it.Not to mention all that good energy the animal feels at the moment of its death,to state that its ok to eat and it does no harm is not quite right in my opinion i am sorry,i say its a choice and you do whatever you want but spiritually speaking it slows you down by a LOT,and you can always look up the akashic records if you think i am not right,you would be amazed to find out by your self that i am not bsing here...

5th September 2010, 18:17
So saico we should all eat more meat ,since the amount of water used on one single cow during its process is enough water for one person to take a shower 3 months in a row,i like your analogy tho,when certain places run out of water for good due to the stupid meat industry come back here and post your views again,i would be delighted to hear it.Not to mention all that good energy the animal feels at the moment of its death,to state that its ok to eat and it does no harm is not quite right in my opinion i am sorry,i say its a choice and you do whatever you want but spiritually speaking it slows you down by a LOT,and you can always look up the akashic records if you think i am not right,you would be amazed to find out by your self that i am not bsing here...
Guess you need to read my arguments again. About same amount of water needed to "farm" livestock is needed to sustain plant crops and orchards. Whole "farm" industry is the biggest polluter we have in our environment, especially in terms of impact on ground water reservoir. You cannot single out one process out of it: whole "food" sector is one big problem, economically and ethically, yet without it current population numbers are unsustainable
From my point of view killing livestock and killing plants is two sides of the same ugly coin. While it might seem over the top, everyone that was in old forest, especially oak one can witness amount of "beingness" present in those "mere plants". Singling out one one category of killing as more "good", because plants do not have eyes to look into, is , from my standpoint, lying to yourself.
Again , acknowledging situation you are into is crucial to getting out of it.
We live on borrowed energy and matter on borrowed land. Question is, do we want to get out this debt and how, not what kind of debt we get into next. Denial does not solve anything
Respect to all elements that build ingenious life supporting system on this planet, from rocks to animals and plants, is crucial too. Out of this respect, understanding how it works and learning ways of supporting/extending it is very important to further progress. Current "pillage and forget" system cannot last.

5th September 2010, 18:57
Nice reply,never thought of it that way!!

Peace of Mind
6th September 2010, 09:46
Hey there SaiCO, for the most part, we are in agreement.
I just want to make a few things clear. I understood your points concerning the use of money in your original post; my points were on how the human specie could prosper far more without it. Compensation has always been appreciated… why? Because humans agree to the system (well, tricked to agree).
The way I see it…there is a minimum of two different talent sets everyone is born with. The first set of talents will help them enjoy life through
Entertainment/stimulations…while the others are contributing talents. When we decide to toss away the corrupt and greed stricken system and be responsible for the species and not the individual…there will be nothing we can’t do... It’s not hard at all, people rather make it hard. For a creature that has come from using rocks and sticks as tools, to a man traveling in space...we should be smart enough to figure this out by now. The problem is the lack of trust, and love we have for each other. We don’t care enough for each other to do what we can for the populace without getting paid for it. Simple (without the sugar coat)

We can easily design a system where every person’s name, their desires, talents, ideas, skills, etc…is all put into a global database. If there is a specific task that needs to be done, specific people will be asked if they want to take part in it. No one should pay for food, shelter, and education. I’m sure I’ am not the only one who has seen bright minds live a wasted life due to the system of haves and have nots. Take the worry of "looking for the next meal" out of the mind of the people then they will be inspired, and bring forth beauty into the world.

The law of attraction is as real as you allow it to be. The illusion called life isn’t fixed…but the fix is in. The hardest thing for me to manifest is happiness for others (mainly strangers), as time passed, I’ve learned the best thing to do is plant seeds and remove the weeds, experience has always been the best teacher. I have no problem with living by example in everything I do; there are no fears, so there are no failures. Erase the materialism and experience true freedom.

We are all the same, one creature living in an illusionary separated existence…for the sole purpose to teach and learn from each other. This is the fastest way for the soul to grow/evolve. Everyone bleeds, eat, crap, laugh and cry. The individual mind is only wired differently so it can express itself to others, we need it to grab its own little scraps of the 3D world and add it to the collective mind. These expressions aid in our collective learning. If one person isn’t being who they truly are…we (as a whole) lose out on a valuable lesson. The value of this lesson varies and affects individuals in specific ways, for a reason. Stopping people from being who they naturally are by creating a system that will allow them to become irresponsible… the specie fails…it always have when using trade and money as a means to do what is meant to be done.

As I mentioned before, I respect all life. No animal clothes and I’m against chopping down trees (for anything). Yes, I “Live off the Earth”, and I’m almost positive that If a any form of vegetation doesn’t want us to eat it’s berries/nuts, or if a tree doesn’t want us to eat its fruits/veggies… it would have found some way to let us know by now…after all….they have been on this planet longer than everything, evolution would’ve been inevitable. Instead, not once have I seen any vegetation scream in agony, run, look me in the eye and clearly let me know it doesn’t want to be killed. I have seen this in animals so I took the responsibility to do what was right. I wonder how many people wouldn’t mind having some aliens sneaking around their neck of the woods snatching up their kids because their were a delicacy….We, Humans are intelligent enough to make such choices, we are constantly being tested thru our free choice. Is the bulk of us choosing wisely? Well, look around…

When veggies/ rocks, or any other forms of matter start showing clear signs of dismay (not some science experiment/trick conducted by man), then I will reconsider. I would have no problem dieing before taking life to save my own. Death is very inviting once you can get a grasps of it. We are only here to evolve our souls thru emotions. The thing is.... most people fear death…so they go to great extremes to avoid it, like (knowingly) taking life to prolong their own. My food intake has slow down dramatically, lately. And I’m still able to sustain high energy and require less sleep. I think my body is going through some beautiful changes, very exciting times for me.

The FDA, governments, and some scientist lied to us about many things; you don’t have to take my word for it because I’m not here to convince anyone. I can only expect a person to think for them selves, when ever they hear or see something that touches their soul. If I provide a little spark of light in the darkness…it’s been my pleasure to help you help yourself to help us all…there's no other reason for me to be here...
We all have our reasons to do what we do...it's not hard to see my intentions.

I’m a very optimistic one, I have faith in people. Although some might find comfort in looking for faults in others to justify and ease their (knowingly) negativity to the world…I do what is right…and what is right is not to harm anything or anyone to get what I want. I control the illusion, never will I let anyone place restraints on my visions, or build my thoughts for me. If you allow others to think for you…then you shouldn’t have anything to complain about. But most do…and why

Empowering yourself, is empower the people, no for having inanimate objects controling the movement of the living....that's just backwards…


6th September 2010, 10:54
Thank you for patient response, Peace of Mind :)

Empowering yourself, is empower the people, no for having inanimate objects controling the movement of the living....that's just backwards…

I cannot agree more to that.
We can argue about specific methods, stages on the road. They are different for every one of us.
Point is in seeing where we are, what are the circumstances, what are the traps, and ultimately, where should we go.
As world that surround us is of our making, we can change the way it work. Some things are easier to move, others are harder, but ultimately every know can be undone. That is important thing to really know, as amount of work and size of the obstacles is mind-boggling, amount of people zombiefied by the system - incredible, damage to ecosystem seems irreversible...

But then again, all these things are material. A set of projections. This is why I firmly believe that you can make a door in this perception, using focused projection (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4963-Coherent-focused-projection-project) from small amount of people that have agreed on few basic premises and moral principles an alternative to current "world" could be made. Even small amount of such focused energy can unlock opportunities to know more about how "reality works" and using that energy and knowledge create a space beyond confines of this system. If I am right, possibilities are truly endless. But maybe that's another pipedream.
This does not change the fact that way things work now is unacceptable, and sooner or later deterioration is inevitable. It can be 15 years, or it can be whole centuries though, and even then people can be tricked into rejuvenating this system again. Rome was dying for 3 centuries, and was rebuilt in about same amount of time. Lesson worth remembering. If we cannot make working alternative on our own, then we are doomed to repeat this cycle of viciousness over and over again. And, ultimately, this situation is of our making.