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View Full Version : Is the environmental movement & EPA a tool of economic refocusing ( aka TPTB)



TargeT
13th December 2012, 02:41
While living in Alaska I've noticed a lot more EPA impact in this state than any other I've been in (though Oregon and the "spotted owl" hysteria was pretty impactful)

I was listening to a discussion today on the radio about Polar bear & "endangered species" list; apparently some academics from New York (or where ever, not Alaska) are attempting to place the polar bear as an endangered species (which is quite funny, since it is not even a species, more like a sub-category of bear & their population is at an all time high currently)

These attempts, the Polar bear, the Beluga whale, King Salmon & even caribou are always centered around some sort of resource development or industrial advancement of some sort. Drilling in the Ar tic in winter is not allowed due to these regulations, large mines are stopped via the same way as well as off shore drilling (in shallow waters, not the 5 mile deep craziness of the horizon rig in the Gulf)

Before I heard about this I was thinking of a trip that I took a couple of years ago to Mongolia, with a brief stop in Beijing, China. While in china I noticed how terribly smoggy the air was there, & had heard that there were almost zero environmental restrictions in china.

This sort of clicked together since almost all resource production in the US has been halted by the EPA & easily guided environmental "activists", and we have NO real industry left (car production etc) due to Unions and the highest corporate tax structure IN THE WORLD.

I see a few influencing factors here, EPA, Unions, Taxes. All of these are hierarchical & generally stem from D.C., this REEKS of "TPTB" to me. All three of these organizations have a mission statement that does NOT reflect the outcome of their efforts, they are hypocritical & deceptive when you look at the "big picture" of their functionality.

Now the motive, why take down the US, it was an economic powerhouse for years and still is limping along fairly well even with this Cerberus of EPA, Union & Taxation trying it's best to stop progress & prosperity at every front.

China has over 1 billion people & is poised to have a huge surge in it's "middle class", the typical wealth makers for every country (mostly due to numbers, and China will have epic "numbers" when compared to any other middle class ever known).

With all this in mind I see a guided (forced usually) movement from the west to the east, with the multi-national power brokers benefiting greatly & filling the role as "economic shepard" in this case.

Paul
13th December 2012, 03:37
With all this in mind I see a guided (forced usually) movement from the west to the east, with the multi-national power brokers benefiting greatly & filling the role as "economic shepard" in this case.
Agreed ... I see the same thing.

TargeT
13th December 2012, 05:09
These deceptive forces have a very common M.O., they promise wonderful things (akin to the Social Security farce) but then completely turn on not only their supposed benefactors but also the public at large.

Unions are a perfect example, they had a very valid reason for existing a long time ago when employee's could be treated very badly, but now all they do is (*WARNING* generalization to follow) over pay workers, protect bad workers & lobby for unneeded things all while draining the income of their members and in a lot of states FORCING membership. I'm currently in a federal Union (was forced into it, I do not work in a "right to work" state apparently) and have seen how destructive unions are, but in my case they are even worse since the management they negotiate with has no "profit" to motivate their negotiations, so the union ends up gaining tremendous power through management apathy. I am also friends with several union members that work oil fields and electrical jobs.. one guy that works "on the slope" (which refers to northern Alaskan oil fields) brings in around 120,000 a year and all he is responsible for is refueling trucks and changing tires (on large vehicles) it's not an easy job, but certainly not skilled enough to demand 120k a year, you nor I could attain this level of pay or even the position due to our lack of union membership in his particular union.

Taxation, well I don't think I really need to get into that, it can be summed up by looking at our deficit spending (do taxes even matter?) and the fact that income taxes don't even reach the federal government ( I cannot remember the study that found this out, I think it was in Regan's era)

and of course the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency,,, these guys almost have as much power as the CIA now, they were yet another organization that was formed for noble reasons and was perverted to industry choking ridiculousness, the EPA is killing any hope of pulling out of this financial recession we are currently in.


When people say they want to stop "TPTB" I wonder why these direct tools of mostly direct influence are never approached.. I guess they are more mundane than "technology 100's of years ahead of ours" or other intangible topics to discuss.

Referee
13th December 2012, 06:53
Just look at Adgenda 21 In my backyard we are debating putting in a coal port to china next to BP Cherry Point. In WA state it should never go through due to all the environmental activists and us being a blue state however, I am willing to bet the deep water coal port will be approved anyway.

13th Warrior
13th December 2012, 14:53
I see it like this; people/groups will use what ever seems to be the most convenient leverage to further their own personal/group agenda.

An example of this behavior can often been seen in the work place, where the issue of safety is used as the lever to push a non safety related issue.

13th Warrior
13th December 2012, 17:20
Unions are a perfect example, they had a very valid reason for existing a long time ago when employee's could be treated very badly, but now all they do is (*WARNING* generalization to follow) over pay workers, protect bad workers & lobby for unneeded things all while draining the income of their members and in a lot of states FORCING membership. I'm currently in a federal Union (was forced into it, I do not work in a "right to work" state apparently) and have seen how destructive unions are, but in my case they are even worse since the management they negotiate with has no "profit" to motivate their negotiations, so the union ends up gaining tremendous power through management apathy. I am also friends with several union members that work oil fields and electrical jobs.. one guy that works "on the slope" (which refers to northern Alaskan oil fields) brings in around 120,000 a year and all he is responsible for is refueling trucks and changing tires (on large vehicles) it's not an easy job, but certainly not skilled enough to demand 120k a year, you nor I could attain this level of pay or even the position due to our lack of union membership in his particular union.

Concerning unions; what then has changed from then to now?

These groups where meant to be "by and for the people"

It's the same with government and politics; it's the people who are no longer involved with the day to day matters of these groups yet they still allow themselves to be controlled by these groups. It should be obvious by now that these groups will not function for the people when the "by" has been neglected by the people.

TargeT
14th December 2012, 00:56
Concerning unions; what then has changed from then to now?

These groups where meant to be "by and for the people"

It's the same with government and politics; it's the people who are no longer involved with the day to day matters of these groups yet they still allow themselves to be controlled by these groups. It should be obvious by now that these groups will not function for the people when the "by" has been neglected by the people.


Yes, Apathy abounds,, I wonder why the passion has been sucked from the populace, is it as simple as TV and fluoride? perhaps it's massive debt that most working people have keeping them quiet and "in line" I suppose that is a better starting point, finding out how to "energize the base" as political movements do.

The Tea Party sure seemed to kick up some action, though it may be running out currently (I'm not involved with those groups anymore so I have lost touch) I know a local "conservative patriot" group is still running strong, taking over local radio & holding weekly meetings... so There's some hope.

Mulder
21st December 2012, 19:42
These deceptive forces have a very common M.O., they promise wonderful things (akin to the Social Security farce) but then completely turn on not only their supposed benefactors but also the public at large.

Unions are a perfect example, they had a very valid reason for existing a long time ago when employee's could be treated very badly, but now all they do is (*WARNING* generalization to follow) over pay workers, protect bad workers & lobby for unneeded things all while draining the income of their members and in a lot of states FORCING membership. I'm currently in a federal Union (was forced into it, I do not work in a "right to work" state apparently) and have seen how destructive unions are, but in my case they are even worse since the management they negotiate with has no "profit" to motivate their negotiations, so the union ends up gaining tremendous power through management apathy. I am also friends with several union members that work oil fields and electrical jobs.. one guy that works "on the slope" (which refers to northern Alaskan oil fields) brings in around 120,000 a year and all he is responsible for is refueling trucks and changing tires (on large vehicles) it's not an easy job, but certainly not skilled enough to demand 120k a year, you nor I could attain this level of pay or even the position due to our lack of union membership in his particular union.

Taxation, well I don't think I really need to get into that, it can be summed up by looking at our deficit spending (do taxes even matter?) and the fact that income taxes don't even reach the federal government ( I cannot remember the study that found this out, I think it was in Regan's era)

and of course the EPA, Environmental Protection Agency,,, these guys almost have as much power as the CIA now, they were yet another organization that was formed for noble reasons and was perverted to industry choking ridiculousness, the EPA is killing any hope of pulling out of this financial recession we are currently in.


When people say they want to stop "TPTB" I wonder why these direct tools of mostly direct influence are never approached.. I guess they are more mundane than "technology 100's of years ahead of ours" or other intangible topics to discuss.

I have to disagree with your views on Unions. On one hand, Unions have been taken-over by TPTB and are not there to help most workers. On the other hand, if you read Karl Marx, he wrote of young children aged under 10, being forced out of their squalid beds and working (sweeping chimneys) for 15 hours a day. So without unions, workers are "defenceless" against employers... Also, Marx wrote against unions in "Communist" countries, so doing away with unions is a big step toward Communism.