Help with putting a beloved pet down at home

[onawah]

My kitty is getting old and ill.
She is at least 14 years old, though I don't know her exact age because I rescued her from the street and she was already full grown.
She is blind now and I think it was caused by the last shots she had from the Vet.
To give you a little background, I live on Social Security Disability in a housing complex for seniors and disabled.
Since we are all low income here, we receive rental assistance from the Housing Authority, and so we are required to follow the rules that are set for us (otherwise, we can be evicted.... Big Brother in action!), which includes getting shots for our housepets every year.
Unless the Vet will provide a waiver due to age or illness, which I asked the Vet to do, but he refused.
I guess he didn't want to relinquish the $100 I had to pay him for the shots.
I have a waiver now that she is blind and is showing her age.
But I think the adjuvants in the shot have given her cancer or some other wasting condition.
She still has an appetite, and enjoys being petted and cuddling with me, but otherwise, she just sleeps all the time, and I think walking is probably painful to her. Her joints are probably inflamed.
I am feeding her the best kind of food I can afford, but she generally won't take supplements, and I don't think I can afford to pay for the ones that would help, in any case.
I am hoping for the best, but if it gets to the point where she is obviously miserable or in pain, then I want to put her down as painlessly as possible, though I love her dearly and will miss her very much.
I certainly don't want to take her to the Vet or give him another $100 to come to my home and do it...I hope to have seen the back of him for the last time...
She hates going in the car, and I would rather do this myself if I can, so she won't be scared.
But I don't know how to go about it, and I doubt very much that any Vet will tell me what to do or assist me.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks so much.

update:Wow! did not get a chance to look at this thread again since last night, until just now.
I did not expect so many responses, but thank you so much for your sympathy and concern. :grouphug:
Special thanks to Paul for editing out the stuff I didn't want to read, before I even clapped eyes on it. :hug:
In case there are more posts, I think I should elucidate a little more.
First, I should have said, my kitty's name is Samara.
Because my kitty is blind, she no longer goes outdoors. She is afraid to, and in any case, we are required to keep our dogs and even our cats on leashes here.
So her going away to die isn't an option, and she just stays in the same room in my home, in any case, where she has easy access to her food, water, litter box and bed.
I would never try to do away with her with any kind of violent blow or shot.
It's just not in me, and not a solution I could consider.
Needless to say, as most of you have surmised, I don't want to give her to a shelter to put down, or I never would have started this thread...

She may be quite a lot older than 14, and she has begun to look older than 14 now, since that last shot.
I don't know how to post photos here, and I don't think a photo of Samara's eyes would be of much use, since she has cataracts now, since the shot.
My feeling is that she would probably prefer to be a kitten again, which is what I'm sure she will be soon after she's crossed over.
And that she's probably hanging around now primarily for my sake.
I'm willing to let her do that, as long as she is not really suffering, and I think I will know if she's suffering.
I'm pretty sure she has joint pain now because of the way she walks, but she pretty much stays in her bed or in my bed all the time, so I don't think that's a big problem just yet.

Since she can't go off and find a place outside to die when the time comes, I prefer that she be comfortable, in her own home, without strangers around, unless there is someone I can trust to come and give her a shot that would be painless and effective.
But it sounds like even Vets' methods along those lines are not necessarily fool proof, which I didn't realize until now.
I will make some more calls here locally, though I have made some already and it was not encouraging.
It was after doing so that I concluded finding a safe, painless and effective way to put her down at home might be the better option.
I'm doing that now so that hopefully, I will be prepared for when the time comes.
I will post again here if I have found out if there was something I missed that would work for me and Samara.
Thanks again.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

It is one of the most loving caring gifts you will give to your beloved cat. If and when you get "the look" from the cat - that's her sign to tell you she needs help to move to the next phase of existence.

Again, this is all LOVE and it is necessary as hard as it is to do. Make sure you talk to your cat once you are in bed drifting to sleep that night, as I did with my woofa when I had to put her down. Just listen, she will come in telepathy and she will let you know everything will be ok....

Much love to you and your beautiful cat.

[music]

I am so sorry to hear about this. I hope that someone has a suggestion, but I'm afraid my only experience at doing this is not an option for you. I once had to put a dog down because she had started biting people (it was a rescue dog that had been badly abused). It was Christmas time, I took her out into the paddock and placed a big cut of prime ham on the ground for her. She was happily eating it when she received a .22 bullet cleanly through the back of her head. Her tail was still wagging as the reflex that continued after her instantaneous death. Broke my heart. At least her last moment was joyful, and I hope you can do that for you kitty. What I can do is ask the universe to take her quietly in her sleep, perhaps others can do the same?

[onawah]

Thanks. She's always telling me everything is OK. She is my best teacher.
Can you tell me how you went about putting your Woofa down?
I gave my kitty some Tramadol (an opiod) orally once when she was in pain from an infection, and it certainly made her feel good--she was rolling around on her back like a kitten.
But I have no idea if that would be an effective thing to use for putting her down, or how to know how much to give her or even how to get it down her.
I just mashed a little bit and put it in her wet food, which went down well.
I also tried putting it in a solution of water in an eye dropper, but it made her mouth foam, and I think she hated that.
To get enough down her in food to stop her heart might be a problem.
And I don't know anything about injections.
So it's more the mechanics of the process that I need help with.
If anyone can help with this, it would be much appreciated.
If you feel uncomfortable giving advice like this so publicly, please just PM me.
Thanks so much.

[Debra]

That is very beautiful advice watcZEITGEISTnow.

Onawah, I feel for you right now. I am disgusted that this vet is even in the profession. But that is not priority right now, your friend there and you need some loving support. She will let you know, because you will hear it. And just let it flow from there. All details will come together. I remember a family dog that my parents looked after and the day that he was ready And it was such a beautiful memory. My son and his friend who were only 9 at the time wanted to go with us and while waiting to bring him inside I found myself stroking him around the ears and eyes and I just started singing to him. Surprised me but I found myself singing Goodnight Sweetheart it's Time to Go. I think Harpobarks (his name) guided me to that moment somehow. Have trust Onawah that you will do this together.
Love zebra x

[onawah]

That, of course, would be the ideal thing.
I guess I just want to be prepared for the worst, in case it doesn't happen that way.
I am somewhat conflicted, because I don't want her to suffer, but I'm not really ready to let her go yet, either.
I have suffered great physical pain when I was hit by a hit and run driver, had a NDE and was hospitalized for 5 months with multiple injuries.
So my first thought is just to spare her pain, in that eventuality.
I don't want to ask for her to be taken just yet though, because I will miss her so much when she's gone.
Though if she wants to go now, of course, I would not want to keep her here.
But I'm not getting that feeling yet.
I will not have another pet here where I live because of the rules about shots, unless I get a bird, but I don't think that will really be a good substitute.
So I'm hoping she will be able to stay with me for awhile longer without discomfort.
But if the time comes when she is in pain, asking for help with a natural passing in her sleep will certainly be something I will do.
And Music, your offer has made me feel comforted in knowing there are folks here who are willing and probably very able to help with that.
I've been feeling so worried about this.
She's almost like my child, and has been such a dear and faithful companion.
I want to do the best for her I can.
Thanks again!

What I can do is ask the universe to take her quietly in her sleep, perhaps others can do the same?

[onawah]

Thanks Zebra. Harpobarks was lucky you were there for him.
I still get so angry when I think about that Vet.
I really have to let that go.
I'm really glad I posted this here.
I'm feeling very supported already.
I know I'm just a worrywart, and things generally work out for the best, but reaching out definitely helps.
I have to get to bed now, but I will sleep better for having read your loving messages.
Thanks again so much.

[Vitalux]

Contact the local SPCA

(society for the prevention of cruelty to animals)

Explain it how you told it to us. Chances they will have someone come by and pick up the cat and see what they can do.

I honestly in my heart do not think you should personally euthanize your cat.
My thoughts are is too many things can or might go wrong.
It might even be illegal in your region.

See if perhaps a niece, relative or friend can take her to a vet or animal control shelter.
I think i relate to where you are coming from, but the task that you wish to do is not an easy one, and we don't want to put your cat through any unnecessary stress/ pain as well.

Wising you success

[ED209]

Dear Onowah,

I am a crazy cat lady. I know a lot about cats. My vet says that as long as the cat is eating and drinking, they are ok to keep on keepin' on. Cats stop eating and drinking when they are really suffering. So if your cat is eating and drinking, it is definitely NOT her time to go. I urge you not to try go drug her to death. That will result in a very painful and stressful death. There are veterinarians that do house calls for euthanasia. Maybe you can save up for this type of peaceful release since it is not an immediate need. Also, shelters and rescues often operate low/no cost vaccination mobile units. You may want to organize a trip to your building for the whole community. Message me if you like.

[markpierre]

Our cat Cassandra had this weird cat habit of tearing around the house at night, using the furniture like the banks on a racetrack. She was pretty docile and serious during the day,
but at night had to let the cat out of the bag.

Years later I happened to be in the States and my wife (exwife then) called me over to help send her off. It'd been years since she'd partaken of her midnight sprint training.
The home visit vet (a lovely lovely woman) administered the shot and left us all together. The moment she passed the two of us felt it and looked at each other wide eyed.
That energy was madly racing around the room bounding off the furniture again. I thought the pictures might come off the walls.
She was like a brand new spring coiled up in a rusty old body. ED209 has some good advice. I'm not so sure that a cat might use that time for retrospect. Who knows.
We know they're a lot more thoughtful than we give them credit for. A quite shot of sleep is probably the best path. I think you'll know which day is the day, if you opt for that.
As Vitalux said, it might not need to be a vet.
But she might pick her own time. Animals have been pretty trustworthy with that choice for a few million years..

I think you can have a sad sweet difficult wonderful time, and relish every part of it. Bless you.

[Paranormal]

Well, you can give her to the SPCA or animal catcher in your area, or you can ...

===

[ Mod-edit: Well, I left the above post as is, just commenting on it a couple of posts below, for half of a day. But it's rather grossing myself and too many others out, so I am now editing out most of it. Enough. -- Paul. ]

[giovonni]

It is one of the most loving caring gifts you will give to your beloved cat. If and when you get "the look" from the cat - that's her sign to tell you she needs help to move to the next phase of existence.

Again, this is all LOVE and it is necessary as hard as it is to do. Make sure you talk to your cat once you are in bed drifting to sleep that night, as I did with my woofa when I had to put her down. Just listen, she will come in telepathy and she will let you know everything will be ok....

Much love to you and your beautiful cat.

Best advice under these sad circumstances ...

Blessings my Friend http://factoryjoe.s3.amazonaws.com/emoticons/emoticon-0101-sadsmile.gif

[TigaHawk]

I am sorry to hear about your kitty :(

Can i give you some comfort in the fact that when i was quite young, we also had an adopted cat named Sox. She grew old, and eventualy went blind. Tho it was sad for us knowing this, seeing her try to find her way around and bump into things... but she was still happy with our company, and us hers.

She eventualy hid in the garage, under a set of shelves, curled up and went to sleep.....

To the people whom suggested offing the pet... sorry mods but i feel this necessary... you are ****ing sick in the head and should be ashamed of yourselves. Would you shoot/hang/off your mother/sister/grandma/grandpa if they went blind and were suffering? No? Why should animals be any different? Get over your arrogance, we have no right to proclaim ourselves better than any other living creature on this planet.

[Hervé]

Have you tried to give her some form of MMS to help with the inflammation?

[astrid]

MMS can be hard on Kidneys, so i would hesitate trying that.
Most older cats have some degree of kidney failure.

14, is not that old for a cat, actually. You may have a few good
years with her yet. There are many things you can try to improve
her health. I know with my Louis, he's not old but he has health issues,
i got him to turn the corner with some research and some trial and error,
with changes in diet and some added supplements, hes acting like a puppy again now.
I wouldn't give up on her so soon... she will tell you very clearly when its time,
you will know without a doubt.
And cats often just go away and die , it seems to be their way. All of our family's cats did this,
they just seem to know when its time.

[Fred Steeves]

Hi onawah, I'm very sorry to hear what you and kitty are going through. Having had dogs since I was knee high to a curb, I've had the opportunity to bless a few of them on their way. Monkey is 13 now, tumor ridden, frail, and has lost most of her bladder control. If it wasn't for her mind still being sharp as a whip, we would have already sent her along. Very tough decision. Even when we know everything's o.k., that they also are an eternal soul, it's still heart breaking.

I think from now on we will pay a (trusted) vet to make an old fashioned house call for these matters, the pet is in their own "safe" environment, and it saves having to lug a body home for burial. It's so difficult talking about these things isn't it? But we have to.

Like you said though, that time is not yet. It's good to have somewhat of a plan though, for when it IS "that time". In the meantime, if kitty is having a hard time moving about and in discomfort doing so, maybe there's something we can try for that. Years ago I had an old dog named Murphy, and at 13 she started being in so much joint pain that she would occasionally start screaming in pain just turning in her bed the wrong way. We were just about to put her to sleep, when our wonderful vet suggested we try a natural supplement called "Arthroflex".

It's rather expensive but we bought some, and began adding it to her food every day. Within a few weeks she stopped crying in pain, was up and walking around normally again, and would even scamper every now and then if it was time to play. Murphy lived two more healthy years, and died peacefully in her sleep one night.

I'm sure we're all with you and kitty in Spirit during this most difficult time onawah, and whatever happens will be exactly what was supposed to happen. :)

With much love,
Fred

[RMorgan]

Hey mate,

I believe you should let her die naturally.

Cats have strong resistance to pain, so I believe she´s not suffering with her illness as much as you think.

I had a lot of cats; By my experience, when their time comes, they just leave their homes and go die somewhere else; They don´t like dying where they live, for some reason. They just find a place to rest and wait patiently for death.

Raf.

[blufire]

Onawah . . my heart goes out to you and kitty. As a huge animal lover and because I have lived on farms and homesteads most my life what you are enduring now I have endured many times . . . from very large livestock to birds and mice my daughters have brought to me to heal or send them on their way through the veil.

Many times when I need “to know” where the animal is in their life path I simply sit and touch (lay on of hands) when it is very quiet and peaceful. In the wee hours of the morning (around 3 am) when the veil is thin is the best time, many times I receive ‘pictures’ of the state of being the furry friend is in and I know when the time is close.

So many times I have had injured animals brought to me or animals have been so injured on the farm to the point there is no other choice than to ‘put the animal down’. I take the animal where it is the happiest and the most peaceful and much like Music, a bullet to the back and base of the skull (where the soft place is) the most humane. I have seen vets use the drugs to ‘put an animal’ down and it is a 50/50 method as far as being pain free or stress free.

When we become the shepherd of an animal then we become the caregiver for the animals lifetime . . . .the happy and the heartrending.

But with ‘melding; with the animal . . . you will know . . . and it becomes a sanguine event that I carry with each animal friend I have helped. I see shadows and feel the energy many times of certain furry friends . . . they are always around me . . . it always makes me smile and brings a warmth to my soul.

Perhaps there are others in your community that are or will be in the same place as you. Maybe your community could take up a donation to be held for all that donate to use when a vet is needed to help send a pet over. A few dollars a month from a pool of animal lovers could add up quickly. If not send me a pm when the time comes.

As long as kitty is drinking and eating she is not ready to go. You will know . . . she will tell you.

P.S. Could you post a picture? Current and where I can see her eyes?

[golden lady]

Don't give up on your Kitty just yet. I don't think either of you are ready for that. As others have said Kitty will let you know when ,as did my own sweet 16yr old Daisy dog back in Feb. I was dreading the thought of the finalality of "putting her to sleep" but thankfully nature took its course.
I wish you and kitty all the best and happy holidays to you both.

[RunningDeer]

Hello Onawah,

I’m sorry that Samara and you are in such pain. I'm sending healing energies towards creating an environment of harmony, courage and support for your choices. There are many helpful suggestions and support for you both on the thread. Most of this post many not fit your current situation, but maybe it’ll help some others.

After 14 years, I switched Wolfie’s doctor for another because he’d get stressed out when they’d draw blood out of his little leg. With each yearly visit, he got more resistant and it took a couple of people to jab him. For days, he’d be sick after the shots. I felt dismissed when I’d explain his reactions to the vet.

We meet last spring with his new doctor. Wolfie is now on an elder care program. She was in agreement with me that he didn’t need shots nor the heart worm medicine because he’s an inside dog and his age. The only exception is the 3 year rabies shot because that’s a state/federal? mandate.

I also made these arrangements because I don’t want him to suffer in pain because I’m scared to let him go. For me, it’s the kind and loving thing to do. (Though, Wolfie and I have this agreement that he’ll pass in his sleep.)

In the meantime, I’ve added MMS to his water. He’s 5 1/2 pounds, so I use a 1:1 ratio. I use a small glass and add one drop of ‘MMS’ and then one drop ‘50% Citric Acid Activator’ on top and gently mix for a count of 30. I add about 4 oz of water to dilute the mixture. Then pour it into a gallon of H20. It’s stored in a glass jar with a cover. After three days, I make a new batch for him.

Onawah, please let us know how Samara and you are doing.

Love and Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[RunningDeer]

This is a repost that I'm adding to ease the feelings and thoughts of Samara's passing:

I read where some pets large and small meet up with their love one and carry on. I found comfort in that knowledge. Shortly after, I experienced it first hand:

My neighbor, Barbara had a dog named, Mikie. As part of his training, she’d walk him around the circle driveway, and also he’d accompanied her with the chores like empty trash and care for the horses. Always the same trot from both of them, and same hand positions with the leash.

One morning, Barbara emptied the trash and came around the circle. Only this time, she walked with an invisible leash, the same hand positions as always. And Mikie? He was trotting right by her side only in his light-body. I blinked a couple of times, still in doubt.

That afternoon, Barbara dug a deep hole with the farm equipment next to the horse fence. Then she walked the circle alone with a wrapped up bundle. She lowered herself into the knee deep hole, and gently laid her Mikie to rest.

Children of the New Millennium: Lynn's Near-Death Experience
(http://near-death.com/experiences/animals02.html)
“From the light came two dogs of mine. One was a collie named Mimi who had died three years previously from an infection, and the other was a box named Sam who had died two years before after being hit by a car. The dogs came running and jumped on me and kissed my face with their tongues. Their tongues weren't wet, and I felt no weight when they jumped on me.  The dogs seemed to glow from a light that was inside them.”

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Is it possible to get morphine any longer or is it like heroin these days?

I would give kitty a carefully measured shot if she is to go very very peacefully. :(

But I am no expert. My grandparents used guns and sacks in the river and that is NOT me!

Gun is fast but not clean for user. :( Just make sure it's a safe place (not on a log or rock) and not towards a house, i.e. ricochet/range.

This is heartbreaking to talk about btw.
If she is not very mobile I am thinking a small axe would be very fast (faster than gun if you are determined to do it right).

I would practice on a few sticks before I took kitty to the woods though.
Once her spine is detached there truly isn't much to feel for her than the oxygen leaving the brain. She will be gone in less than a minute if you do that I think.

I am kind of mad at God right now for letting you go through that.

p.s. i did not see the remedy threads don't ignore those! unless it is just time.

[RunningDeer]

I am kind of mad at God right now for letting you go through that.

Hello Tesla_WTC_Solution,

'Another Point of View' only with respect to the one point above: My life is experiential. There's no puppet strings attached to me.

Kindly,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[Poly Hedra]

I feel your pain. I think we need to remember that cats aren't afraid to die like us. I think that a traumatic experience for the cat would be for you to take its life. Cats always go and find somewhere quiet, where they wont be disturbed, to die. They are not afraid. You need to let your cat know that it is ok to move on. That you will miss your cat but you will see her again on the other side. If its still happy, eating and drinking then your cat is not ready to go yet. All you can do is love it and make sure it comfy and happy.

[SKAWF]

sorry to hear about your situation.

i have decided that when my ferrets get to 'tha't stage,
i will gas them.

nitrous oxide.

the technical name for it, is, inducing a state of hypoxia.

basically, all the oxygen in the system, is replaced with another gas.

it might sound a bit unpleasent, but actually, its the opposite!.

partygoers at raves buy balloons filled with nitrous oxide, and they keep breathing it in until they pass out!.

the effects are that the body loses consciousness first,
but the mind and spirit are still active.....

and as the gas takes effect, one is taken to an increasingly euphoric state until....

poof..........

your gone.

(usually, at that point all muscles relax, and natural responses take over until you come back to normal)

but if a tank could be made, and sealed......
and the gasses could be exchanged without any leaking, there would be no way back.

its painless (its quite a nice buzz in fact)
its humane,
it wouldnt cost much
and there would be no need to employ the services of a vet.


the background to this post is that my ferret rose had a bit of blood coming from her bum.
i was scared and i took her to the vet
they said they were going to keep her in for a blood test and x rays

within two hours, they say she bled to death.
i never even got to say goodbye to her.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

I feel your pain. I think we need to remember that cats aren't afraid to die like us. I think that a traumatic experience for the cat would be for you to take its life. Cats always go and find somewhere quiet, where they wont be disturbed, to die. They are not afraid. You need to let your cat know that it is ok to move on. That you will miss your cat but you will see her again on the other side. If its still happy, eating and drinking then your cat is not ready to go yet. All you can do is love it and make sure it comfy and happy.

I agree with connec - however, if you truly feel kitty is suffering I have a friend who has done the following, and she claims it works every time.

Crush up 3-5 aspirins and put in some food. Make sure kitty eats all at once. Or if you can, open her mouth and push them in. ... But do consider letting nature take it's course - and don't worry, Cats are really good at picking up on energy, and worry as you know is negative energy. Just pet her, love her and be sure it will be all right.

[normam2]

When i put down my precious LUNA (dog) at the vet , I could have sworn that for a second this cloud if light came out of her then ;swoosh: like that it was gone. I balled like a mad woman and a month after that. I think about her everyday and wonder what its up to .
The minute I put her down ( she had contracted the parvo virus , it had destroyed her digestive system) I felt overpowering guilt but my logical mind knew that she was not coming back from this thing and it was time to end her pain and allow her to return to unify consciousness. It ultimately beats being here in anyway...hah

[GlassSteagallfan]

Hey mate,

I believe you should let her die naturally.

Cats have strong resistance to pain, so I believe she´s not suffering with her illness as much as you think.

I had a lot of cats; By my experience, when their time comes, they just leave their homes and go die somewhere else; They don´t like dying where they live, for some reason. They just find a place to rest and wait patiently for death.

Raf.

Thanks Raf,
That's what I believe my cat did about 2 months ago. My cat was mainly an outdoorsman except in the winter. He went out one night and never returned.

[ThePythonicCow]

Well, you can give her to the SPCA or animal catcher in your area, or you can ...
I just edited this post down, and removed a couple of quite sensible replies to it. A couple of your suggestions struck the rest of us as gratuitously gruesome. The replies no longer made sense, absent what I have now removed.

[donk]

I have no suggestions, just want to let you know I am really sorry for what you are going through. Horrible spot to be in, hope you and yours are ok.

And thank you Paul.

[Anchor]

I am a crazy cat lady. I know a lot about cats. My vet says that as long as the cat is eating and drinking, they are ok to keep on keepin' on. Cats stop eating and drinking when they are really suffering. So if your cat is eating and drinking, it is definitely NOT her time to go.

I completely concur with this. I am sure that Cat's do not feel suffering as we do, rather an experience of inconvenience and burden compared with the vigour that a "healthy" cat may formerly have been capable of.

The suffering is usually more on the part of the owner.

I am convinced that your intentions are of the best kind - and I am sure that the highest and best outcome will result.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

sorry, he did ask :(

[Cerridwen]

Onawah, I'm so sorry to hear that your kitty isn't feeling well. I don't really have any advise to give that hasn't already been mentioned, but I do agree that she'll let you know when she's truly ready.

In the mean time, enjoy all of the unconditional love she has to give and take care of both of you. :hug:

[Daughter of Time]

I feel for your Onawah! I love cats. When I was a child, whenever I'd lose a cat, I'd come down with a high fever. The pain was so intense that i became almost dealthly ill. And I'm really disgusted with a lot of vets! I've had some horrible experiences with vets in the past.

You've already been given a lot of advice about potentially helpful natural medicines which might help to keep your companion a while longer. But if you feel the time is near, then just talk to your beloved pet and thank her for all the wonderful years you've had with her and then give her permission to go. Tell her everyday that she's free to leave you and she has your blessings. As many have mentioned, cats know when it's time to go.

A friend of mine had an old, tired cat that had moved only to eat and use the litter and box for months and then suddenly, one day, the cat rushed to the door scratching and meowing, demanding to be let out. My friend did not let the cat out but found her dead the next morning.

If she's meant to go, may her passing go more smoothly than you can imagine.

love and strength,

[ED209]

I am really, really hating these layperson cat euthanasia methods. Some of these suggestions are just plain wrong. DO NOT GIVE YOUR CAT ASPIRIN. This will be a painful death. She may vomit up the aspirin and it will just put her in a coma or give her a seizure. I know you are upset, but there are better ways to put kitty down than using layman's info like this. I know people offering suggestions mean well, I know the cat's owner means well, I know money is tight, but some of these suggestions are seriously not ok. Please call rescue groups in your area and ask for their assistance, call animal control, work out a payment plan with your vet, find a vet that doesn't suck so bad. I am shocked to keep coming back to this thread to see even more inaccurate methods. Nitrous oxide? How much? How to contain the cat? Aspirin? Too much room for pain and failure. An axe in the woods? What if the owner can't make a clean cut? The cat will suffer through repeated blows. These are bad bad bad! I have loved and lost many cats in my lifetime. They know when you are about to let them go to cat heaven and some of them do experience fear even in the best of situations. I cannot fathom making the situation worse for them by adding painful room for failure.

[ED209]

Btw, I just did a simple google search for pet rescue groups and veterinarians in your area, Eureka Springs. There are several of both! I urge you call these people and see if you can't work out something financially manageable out with them before trying to guess at how to euthanize your cat. I wish you and your cat the best. If you have trouble contacting groups to help you humanely care for your cat, message me and I will try to help you contact them. You may not get any help, but it must be worth it to try! I really have a visceral reaction to animal cruelty and do not in any way find these crazy methods that people are coming up with amusing at all. :-(

[PurpleLama]

If your euthanize, let the vet do it, period. No need to make worse an already untenable situation. I had to let go one of sixteen or seventeen years, earlier this year. If I think of her while in a meditative state, I swear, along with one who went before, they are right there....

Love to you, onawah, from my heart to yours....

[TigaHawk]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. I think it upsets me so much because of how people seem so eager to make a very crucial decision on behalf of another living thing. Assuming we know best, assuming we know what the right thing is to do. Oh how it mirrors what is happening to us humans on a grand scale, we detest it so much yet this thread seems to show how keen we are to do the exact same thing, with good intentions at that.... to something most considder in some way "less" than ourselves.

Yes, they may be in pain, but as someone else stated cats do not feel pain as you would expect. I am not a parent, but perhaps its a parent thing to see your loved one in pain, and you feel that pain too just as much, and you want to do something about it....

Another one of our cats, Marty, got Kidney cancer. It was incredibly heartbreaking to see it, it hurt him to pee, he lost alot of weight, and energy.... my parents discussed putting him down but we but decided not too. Why? Because he was incredibly happy being around us, he just loved peoples company... he wasnt ready to go.

When he was, he stopped eating and drinking. I got a call from my mum to come around and spend time with him.

I am fairly damn sure they do not have a fear of death like we do, they are totally ok with it, they know when its time, for both themselves and for others.


Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

[ThePythonicCow]

Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?
I did remove one such post, which seemed more gruesome than necessary. The other such posts seem acceptable for this forum, to my present way of thinking.

We do discuss death on this forum; We just don't council individual people who are considering suicide, as that is something we are entirely unqualified to handle here.

[onawah]

Tigahawk, for my kitty, who can't just go away into the woods and die as she might prefer to do, I feel like I do need to take more responsibility.
If she stops eating and drinking, that would surely be a sign that she is ready to go, and I will most definitely watch for that.
But I'm not convinced at all that animals don't feel pain the same way that we do.
And if she is in pain and just waiting to die by starvation or dehydration, then I would like to ease the way for her, just as I would for a human friend.
I can't see any reason why not to.
I think they probably prefer, just as we do, not to suffer if there is no hope of recovery.
Thanks again to everyone for your sympathy and concern, and special thanks to Paul for editing stuff out I'm grateful I didn't have to read.
I have updated my original post with more info, as there seem to have been some misunderstandings about my situation, so I gave a more detailed explanation.
Blessings to all...

[TigaHawk]

Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?
I did remove one such post, which seemed more gruesome than necessary. The other such posts seem acceptable for this forum, to my present way of thinking.

We do discuss death on this forum; We just don't council individual people who are considering suicide, as that is something we are entirely unqualified to handle here.


I was moreso pointing towards how socially unacceptable it would be to discuss methods of suicide for a human person, but the discussion of how to kill an animal seems to be more widely accepted as ok.

and Discussing death is fine, its a natural part of life...... it's the of discussing HOW to KILL something that i find very disturbing....

[DeDukshyn]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

I guess the title of the thread and request of the OP is grossly inaccurate ... ? I'm confused now ... :confused::confused: Perhaps the thread should be closed in case someone else tries to respond that is not opposing to the OP's view???

I've had to shoot a dog before. It was not fun, but it was that or throw it on the side of a road and let it die slowly over hours. Sometimes this is life.

[ghostrider]

I had to put millie down a few years ago, 17 years in dog years is a long time. I took her to the vet , they gave her a shot , she drifted off to sleep at my feet, I left went to the porch of the business, cried like a baby and called my wife to come get me I couldn't drive, we pulled up at home and we both sat silently in the car and cried for over an hour. I still miss millie to this day. I see another dog that resembles her and I get mushy real easy.. I feel your pain, and concern ...all the best to you. Dont fret over the passing , celebrate the life ...

[onawah]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

From my perspective, unnecessary suffering is much more objectionable than death.
If I were suffering needlessly and there was no hope of recovery, I would much prefer a shot of something to ease the transition.
That is based on my own near death experience and my spiritual convictions that animals as well as humans reincarnate, and death is not to be feared.
And I think that is especially true for animals, who have no Bardo, conscience clearings to go through on the other side.
My search for a painless release for Samara is for her benefit, not for my convenience.
I don't want her "out of the way", I want her with me as long as she wants to stay.
I hope that is perfectly clear now, if it wasn't at first.

[TigaHawk]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

I guess the title of the thread and request of the OP is grossly inaccurate ... ? I'm confused now ... :confused::confused: Perhaps the thread should be closed in case someone else tries to respond that is not opposing to the OP's view???

I've had to shoot a dog before. It was not fun, but it was that or throw it on the side of a road and let it die slowly over hours. Sometimes this is life.



I'll try again.

I think it is wrong for us to assume we know best and make that sort of decision on their behalf. If a person is in great pain, and THEY decide they want out, THEY make that choice. That is different because it is THEIR decision...


Think of deciding to put a pet down similar to someone in a coma, and the doctor is asking the family if they want to switch off life support.

Surely you would think yes, they must be a vegetable, trapped in some sort of mental prison, it must be horrible right??

that is what YOU think. that is not necessarily what they are thinking or feeling at all. recent study's on coma patients are indicating they have alot more going on inside their heads than what was origionaly thought. Are they in pain? Do they want you to turn off the life support? Are they ok how they are? The answers to all of these are generaly decided on by yourself, and what you personaly think and feel... nothing to do with what the person you are making decisions for thoughts or feelings on the situation.


With regards to censorship because i dont like whats being said, you can be arrested and detained for discussing ways to kill a person, even if it is consentual suicide. I am trying to highlight how sick it is to have this standard for humans, simply because they are humans, yet with animals people dont seem to hesitate with it, part of life you say, they cant communicate to us you think, oh how they do every day and how arrogant and deaf we are to not see it - i say. what's that quote.... "Its ok for some but not for others?"


I still think the discussion of methods of which to put the cat down are disgusting. Because you are still making that decision on their behalf, i feel quite strongly thats definately not our choice to make.


I do not believe in needless suffering, life is not black and white, its shades of grey. If i ever came across an animal that was injured and in enormous ammounts of pain, and i KNEW FOR A FACT that regardless of what happens that it will die from the pain its in, i would help it along its way, as you the dog DeDukshyn.


onawah no hard feelings to you at all, i was just upset at how quickly people seemed to jump at recommendations on how you should kill her rather than give support or advice to the situation....... other than that.... the whole thing stinks because its happening to someone you care deeply about.... a bullet to the chest hurts less than seeing someone you love in pain...


I speak from my heart first...... then my brain has to come along and pick up the pieces......

[Sidney]

awww, my heart goes out to you. I had to put 2 of my oldkitties to their next phase in the last year. It is heart breaking but its not the end, but the end of a chapter. Whatever you decide to do it will be the right thing at the right time. Prayers are with you.

[RunningDeer]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

I guess the title of the thread and request of the OP is grossly inaccurate ... ? I'm confused now ... :confused::confused: Perhaps the thread should be closed in case someone else tries to respond that is not opposing to the OP's view???

I've had to shoot a dog before. It was not fun, but it was that or throw it on the side of a road and let it die slowly over hours. Sometimes this is life.

I'll try again....

...onawah no hard feelings to you at all, i was just upset at how quickly people seemed to jump at recommendations on how you should kill her rather than give support or advice to the situation....... other than that.... the whole thing stinks because its happening to someone you care deeply about.... a bullet to the chest hurts less than seeing someone you love in pain...


I speak from my heart first...... then my brain has to come along and pick up the pieces......

Hello TigaHawk,


i was just upset at how quickly people seemed to jump at recommendations on how you should kill her rather than give support or advice to the situation
How can you measure how quick we jumped in with recommendations? How can you measure the pain we felt? My thoughts went to how brave everyone was and willing to offer uncomfortable solutions, but understood as well the cry for help.


I speak from my heart first...... then my brain has to come along and pick up the pieces......
Me, too. I'll regret pushing the "reply button". But I did want to say that I honor your courage to speak what you feel and believe to be right for you.

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[DeDukshyn]

I do not believe in needless suffering, life is not black and white, its shades of grey. If i ever came across an animal that was injured and in enormous ammounts of pain, and i KNEW FOR A FACT that regardless of what happens that it will die from the pain its in, i would help it along its way, as you the dog DeDukshyn.


onawah no hard feelings to you at all, i was just upset at how quickly people seemed to jump at recommendations on how you should kill her rather than give support or advice to the situation....... other than that.... the whole thing stinks because its happening to someone you care deeply about.... a bullet to the chest hurts less than seeing someone you love in pain...


I speak from my heart first...... then my brain has to come along and pick up the pieces......


Well thanks from the dog I am, I guess, lol, this doesn't hurt me -- I've had to kill out of honour. I have skin. From my viewpoint this thread has fostered all of what you wanted by several caring members, and some of what made you uncomfortable, yet also some addressed the OP with respect and without patronization. This balance is what makes Avalon diverse and great. My 2 cents.

[onawah]

Another point in case:
In the case of my kitty, a house cat who doesn't go outdoors, one of the considerations I have to take into account is the lack of comfort and healing energy that would be available to her by connecting with the earth, if she was able to go out.
I think I understand very well how much of an issue that may be for her, because I find it necessary for my own health and well being to spend as much time in Nature as possible.
Because house cats live in an artificial environment, I think they are more susceptible to pain than cats who are able to spend time outside.
Which makes artificial solutions to a possible issue with pain something that ought to be considered, imho.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

yeah just let someone make money off the death :(

sighhhhhh XD

gosh guys

[markpierre]

It upsets me in this thread at people suggesting ways to put the kitty to sleep. I think it upsets me so much because of how people seem so eager to make a very crucial decision on behalf of another living thing. Assuming we know best, assuming we know what the right thing is to do. Oh how it mirrors what is happening to us humans on a grand scale, we detest it so much yet this thread seems to show how keen we are to do the exact same thing, with good intentions at that.... to something most considder in some way "less" than ourselves.

Yes, they may be in pain, but as someone else stated cats do not feel pain as you would expect. I am not a parent, but perhaps its a parent thing to see your loved one in pain, and you feel that pain too just as much, and you want to do something about it....

Another one of our cats, Marty, got Kidney cancer. It was incredibly heartbreaking to see it, it hurt him to pee, he lost alot of weight, and energy.... my parents discussed putting him down but we but decided not too. Why? Because he was incredibly happy being around us, he just loved peoples company... he wasnt ready to go.

When he was, he stopped eating and drinking. I got a call from my mum to come around and spend time with him.

I am fairly damn sure they do not have a fear of death like we do, they are totally ok with it, they know when its time, for both themselves and for others.


Can the posts regarding methods to off the cat please be removed? Or are such posts only considered bad if they are in relation to a human death?

I think the suggestions you found so offensive were simply as much as possible reasonable answers to the question posed. It's up to onawah to make a choice
according to onawah's direct knowledge of the the real situation. You might pull up your moral high horse for a sec and give it a drink.

I'd estimate that between my wife and I, we'd spent over $13,000 and endless agonizing over keeping our cat alive over the last 2 years of her life.
In the end, it was when she couldn't lift herself out of the catbox that my wife made her decision. Maybe there's a bit of judgement over the idea that that seems
a $hitty way to die, but we do let those judgements affect us. As much as it's about the cat's right to pick it's own time and place, it's about onawah's relationship with onawah, and the difficult
decisions we all have to make in our sojourns to the land of what we mistake as 'the living'. Life is good, death is bad. That's a misunderstanding of death as far as I'm concerned.

All I see are honest sincere attempts to help, and that should be respected. Do bare in mind that you can no more take life, than you can bestow it.
We fool ourselves over that one, but usually only when we're judging someone else's choices.

[toad]

sorry to hear about your situation.

i have decided that when my ferrets get to 'tha't stage,
i will gas them.

nitrous oxide.

the technical name for it, is, inducing a state of hypoxia.

basically, all the oxygen in the system, is replaced with another gas.

it might sound a bit unpleasent, but actually, its the opposite!.

partygoers at raves buy balloons filled with nitrous oxide, and they keep breathing it in until they pass out!.

the effects are that the body loses consciousness first,
but the mind and spirit are still active.....

and as the gas takes effect, one is taken to an increasingly euphoric state until....

poof..........

your gone.

(usually, at that point all muscles relax, and natural responses take over until you come back to normal)

but if a tank could be made, and sealed......
and the gasses could be exchanged without any leaking, there would be no way back.

its painless (its quite a nice buzz in fact)
its humane,
it wouldnt cost much
and there would be no need to employ the services of a vet.


the background to this post is that my ferret rose had a bit of blood coming from her bum.
i was scared and i took her to the vet
they said they were going to keep her in for a blood test and x rays

within two hours, they say she bled to death.
i never even got to say goodbye to her.

Terrible advice, hypoxia is extremely painful and a horrible way too go out. Regardless if you think using nitrous at first or not,. I'm sorry too hear of your situation and as others have said, I think it's best too let nature run it's course when the time is right. I would also be careful with tramadol as it can induce seizures and only make your cat increasingly uncomfortable.She is however your love I have every confidence you will decide what is best. Good luck.

[onawah]

Thanks to Markpierre for understanding and sharing my feelings about death.
I was hoping more for more practical solutions on this thread, since from my experience so far, Vets and shelters, etc. are not willing and probably not even permitted to give advice on this subject.
But this forum isn't composed of people in the medical and veterinarian practices, so it's understandable that I haven't hit the jackpot as far as practical solutions, so I'm certainly not blaming anyone.
And it's OK if people have different views about this, though I'm quite sure about my own views on death, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I have read from Dr. Kevorkian's work about people committing suicide at home using gas as a backup for overdosing, in case the dose doesn't prove to be fatal.
I think they are already unconscious by the time they begin suffocating, to help prevent any pain or discomfort from being experienced due to the gas.
But my first problem with that is that I still don't know of a drug that can be safely used for a cat.
Humans and cats don't have the same responses to drugs, and for that matter, they may not have the same responses to different gases, either.
I know they use gas in some shelters when they put animals down, but I don't think the animals are drugged first, and from what I hear, it's not a painless experience for them, even in shelters.
They are probably not using nitrous oxide, however, though I don't know that that would be appropriate for animals, either.

I wish there was such a thing as Hospice for pets!
And there probably is, if you have enough money to pay for it, which I unfortunately don't.
One member PMed me and offered to help me financially to have someone come to my home and administer a shot, and if it comes to that, I may take her up on that.
But I'm not sure yet that I can find a Vet or shelter, etc. I feel comfortable with, who provides that service.
The shelters in this area are currently swamped with unwanted animals; because of the current economy, people in this region which was already economically depressed, are having trouble just feeding their animals, so they are dumping them at shelters in unprecedented numbers.
I don't imagine my situation would be greeted with much enthusiasm, considering the problems they are facing.
I still have to make some more calls, but I may wait until after Xmas.
A holistic Vet would be the thing, as they are generally much more sensitive and knowledgable about the dangers of drugs, etc. but I live in a very rural area and there are less than 2500 people in my town, so there aren't a lot of choices here.
The nearest town is about 30 minutes away, and Vets charge for their time.
The Vet I was using was the only one around here who takes timed payments, which is why I had to go with him.
Because my income is so low, I had to pay him in $25 per month increments to pay off the $100 for the unwanted shots.
And an herbal solution would probably be better, in any case, if there is such a thing.

Last but not least, I apologize if the sensitive nature of this thread has disturbed anyone, but I totally agree with Markpierre about death.


As much as it's about the cat's right to pick it's own time and place, it's about onawah's relationship with onawah, ( I THINK HE MEANT SAMARA HERE--OP) and the difficult decisions we all have to make in our sojourns to the land of what we mistake as 'the living'. Life is good, death is bad. That's a misunderstanding of death as far as I'm concerned.

All I see are honest sincere attempts to help, and that should be respected. Do bear in mind that you can no more take life, than you can bestow it.
We fool ourselves over that one, but usually only when we're judging someone else's choices.

[sleepy]

[xxxxx xxxxx

[Lifebringer]

Three ambien in a turkey baster and she'll be off to Heaven without even knowing it. You could give her her favorites and spend time with her, but if there is arthritis you can blend a 1/4 bayer aspirin which is what they give to pets for pain unless it's a broken bone or some car injury.

When you and she decide that it's time, have some ambien, perhaps one of your insomniac neighbors may have some to help, when the time comes. Enjoy the time you have together and when it gets worse talk to her and tell her you'll be seeing her when you get there. Were there any other pets in your life you had? If so, tell her about them and that they will be there waiting for you when you come.

Best wishes for a human solutions and less pain burdened decision. If you love them, then like a butterfly, you must let them go with dignity and as little pain as humanly possible, for they cannot talk or tell you when they hurt, nor can they care for themselves.

[SKAWF]

sorry to hear about your situation.

i have decided that when my ferrets get to 'tha't stage,
i will gas them.

nitrous oxide.

the technical name for it, is, inducing a state of hypoxia.

basically, all the oxygen in the system, is replaced with another gas.

it might sound a bit unpleasent, but actually, its the opposite!.

partygoers at raves buy balloons filled with nitrous oxide, and they keep breathing it in until they pass out!.

the effects are that the body loses consciousness first,
but the mind and spirit are still active.....

and as the gas takes effect, one is taken to an increasingly euphoric state until....

poof..........

your gone.

(usually, at that point all muscles relax, and natural responses take over until you come back to normal)

but if a tank could be made, and sealed......
and the gasses could be exchanged without any leaking, there would be no way back.

its painless (its quite a nice buzz in fact)
its humane,
it wouldnt cost much
and there would be no need to employ the services of a vet.


the background to this post is that my ferret rose had a bit of blood coming from her bum.
i was scared and i took her to the vet
they said they were going to keep her in for a blood test and x rays

within two hours, they say she bled to death.
i never even got to say goodbye to her.

Terrible advice, hypoxia is extremely painful and a horrible way too go out. Regardless if you think using nitrous at first or not,. I'm sorry too hear of your situation and as others have said, I think it's best too let nature run it's course when the time is right. I would also be careful with tramadol as it can induce seizures and only make your cat increasingly uncomfortable.She is however your love I have every confidence you will decide what is best. Good luck.


i would love to know where you got your info for this post?

i get my knowledge from experience.
(in my time, i must have done hundreds of balloons, no problem for me, or the many thousands of others who do it)

also, i watched a horizon doccumetary about a british MP called micheal portillo
who was subjected to that very process, this was filmed, and you could see the effects in real time.
he had no idea he was about to die.
he was in no pain at all.

here is the video

0EHXwyFhUXc

you say terrible advice.....

i say you have no idea what you're talking about.

good day to you.

PS in the same program, the question was asked why they dont use it as a form of execution.
the response was that they dont want to give prisoners a painless death.

[Mulder]

Well, you can give her to the SPCA or animal catcher in your area, or you can ...

===

[ Mod-edit: Well, I left the above post as is, just commenting on it a couple of posts below, for half of a day. But it's rather grossing myself and too many others out, so I am now editing out most of it. Enough. -- Paul. ]

Well, the mind boggles what this sweet soul suggested - we are left with a cliff-hanger. But seriously, not everyone can pay expensive vet bills to put animals in pain down. Practically, we do have awful decisions in life, where there's only 20 awful choices, not a clear "right" or "wrong" choice. We can't always just wait for Dec 21 2012, or leave it "to God." I wish my sympathy to people in this position.

[Mulder]

Three ambien in a turkey baster and she'll be off to Heaven without even knowing it. You could give her her favorites and spend time with her, but if there is arthritis you can blend a 1/4 bayer aspirin which is what they give to pets for pain unless it's a broken bone or some car injury.

When you and she decide that it's time, have some ambien, perhaps one of your insomniac neighbors may have some to help, when the time comes. Enjoy the time you have together and when it gets worse talk to her and tell her you'll be seeing her when you get there. Were there any other pets in your life you had? If so, tell her about them and that they will be there waiting for you when you come.

Best wishes for a human solutions and less pain burdened decision. If you love them, then like a butterfly, you must let them go with dignity and as little pain as humanly possible, for they cannot talk or tell you when they hurt, nor can they care for themselves.

I have to dis-agree about giving the cat asprin as anagelsics like asprin and panadol ARE toxic to cats and dogs. I wonder if this was a "synchronicity" or a "Freduian Slip" and you really wanted to help with a way to put the cat down? See: http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poison/aspirin/

[ThePythonicCow]

also, i watched a horizon doccumetary about a british MP called micheal portillo
who was subjected to that very process, this was filmed, and you could see the effects in real time.
he had no idea he was about to die.
he was in no pain at all.
I can't view that video in my country; I can only see the still image of a man in air force pilot gear, perhaps in a high altitude chamber.

If it is what I think it is, from your description, then yes, it's quite easy on the mind. I have taken off my oxygen mask in an Air Force high altitude chamber, and would easily have died had not those supervising put it back on. It was part of deliberate demonstration, to show the other student pilots in the chamber how easily one could not notice the loss of oxygen at high altitude, and die, quite painlessly, long before one's no longer piloted fighter dug a hole in some farmer's back forty. One's awareness of anything being wrong or troubling evaporates early in the process, even as one is still conscious and unharmed.

That's how I want to go, if sentenced to death row and if given a choice of lethal mechanisms.

I didn't make a very good test subject however. I was a long distance runner, relying substantially on a rather large lung capacity, and my college dorm breath holding champion (about 5 minutes.) So I remained conscious longer than the instructors would have liked to make their point of how quickly loss of oxygen can kill you at high altitudes.

[SKAWF]

hi Paul,

i think i may have found another version of the vid that you can watch,
and ive replaced the original link.
but yeah, its a decompression chamber (start from 1:10).

i reckon, if i had a choice, i would go for that method too.

cheers

[onawah]

I have the book Final Exit which was published by a right-to-die group based on Dr. Kevorkian's work.
At that time, they were recommending helium gas as the back up to a drug overdose for people committing suicide at home.
Basically, the assistant to the dying person just puts his/her head in a large, intact plastic bag, ties it securely around the neck and fills the bag with the helium.
(They've since retracted that advice, though I'm not sure why.)
Helium is easy to obtain, as it is used to blow up balloons--you can order it online.
It seemed to be fairly easy to administer at home, and not expensive, from what the book said.
But again, they recommended that the person already be unconscious, and it would seem that the suffocation process was not comfortable otherwise.
It was just to insure that death would commence.

I saw this about purchasing nitrous oxide here:
http://www.westword.com/bestof/2002/award/best-place-to-buy-nitrous-oxide-38907/

Got gas? It's not just for dental patients anymore. Quasi-legal and relatively harmless, recreational doses of nitrous oxide are widely available hereabouts in the form of "whippits." Small aluminum cylinders of pressurized gas, whippits are sold in head shops and adult bookstores under the guise of chargers for homemade whipped-cream makers

But how much would be needed, and would it have the same, harmless effect on a cat as on a human being?
I think my kitty would have to be pretty unconscious already, because otherwise, I imagine it would scare her.
I remember what it was like breathing it at the dentist's; it didn't feel the same as breathing air, and it had an odor.

And I have the same question for any of the drugs that have been mentioned so far.
Do they have the same effect on cats as on humans?
Tramadol is an opiod which induces a very relaxed, pain free, floating sort of state in humans, and in sufficient quantities, will stop the heart.
Used over a long period of time, I'm sure it also causes liver, kidney and probably damage to the stomach.
But used just once in a fatal dose, I don't think that would be an issue.
I gave some to Samara once, and she was feeling very good, purring and rolling around on her back like a kitten.
I think if I gave her a big enough dose, she would probably just go to sleep and it would painlessly stop her heart.
But I don't know for sure, or know how big a dose I would have to give her.
And I am loathe to try it without knowing more.

I don't know about Ambien or aspirin, because I've never tried giving her either.
That being the case, I don't know if they might cause her pain in a large dose, and I wouldn't want to risk that, without knowing more.

So I'm still going to have to make some more local calls and just hope for someone who is really willing to listen and sympathetic, which hasn't been the case so far.
But I am grateful for the emotional support here from you Avalonians who understand and sympathize.
I'll let you know how the calls go.
Thanks again!

[sleepy]

xxxxx xxxxx

[SKAWF]

hi onawah

i reckon the hypoxia, would have the same effect on all oxygen breathing mammals.

the reason i chose nitrous oxide is because i have experienced it for myself.
its never made me laugh though.
its the gas they use as a propellant for U.H.T squirty cream.
the small cartridges will hold around 2.5 - 3 ltrs of gas each, and the next size up will contain about 5 ltrs
so if you buy ten of those, that will give you 50 ltrs of gas which should be more than enough.

nitrous oxide is slightly heavier than air, so if your careful,
you should be able to fill up an aquarium with gas, just like you fill up a bath with water.
you would need to diffuse the blast of gas when you release it,
which could be done by discharging the gas directly into a towel, sponge, or cushion that you already placed in the chamber.
when you have emptied a few cartridges, slowly lower your face into the chamber.
when you can smell the gas, you will know how much is in there.
TAKE CARE when moving around, as negative air pressure left in your wake, may cause the gas to follow you!.
also close all doors and windows to reduce envioronmental air flow.

then when you and kitty are ready..... very gently, and very very slowly lower her into the chamber, (keeping the gas as undisturbed as possible)
and place her on the cushion.
stay with her until she loses consciousness,
if you know where her pulse is, check it to make sure her heart has stopped
but keep her in there for a few hours. to make sure.

a good thing about nitrous is, that you dont have to use a sealed container, or a bag.
in fact, you could gently stroke her while she is in there. she would be able to hear your voice.
and you will have been there with her, right the way to the very end.

no pain, no stress.

as for when to do it.....

kitty knows her own health. she will know when its time, and she will let you know.
sometimes animals will even hang on to life until their carer has come to terms with the situation!.
but if she doesnt eat or drink, and doesnt move either......................................

its not an easy thing to do,
but it is possibly the greatest thing you can do for your beloved friend.

walking her right to the doors or heaven so to speak.

i hope this post helps.

steve

[onawah]

That sounds like good advice, Steve, and doable.
I will keep this info handy for when the time comes.
Thank you so much.

[Paranormal]

This is a repost that I'm adding to ease the feelings and thoughts of Samara's passing:

I read where some pets large and small meet up with their love one and carry on. I found comfort in that knowledge. Shortly after, I experienced it first hand:

My neighbor, Barbara had a dog named, Mikie. As part of his training, she’d walk him around the circle driveway, and also he’d accompanied her with the chores like empty trash and care for the horses. Always the same trot from both of them, and same hand positions with the leash.

One morning, Barbara emptied the trash and came around the circle. Only this time, she walked with an invisible leash, the same hand positions as always. And Mikie? He was trotting right by her side only in his light-body. I blinked a couple of times, still in doubt.

That afternoon, Barbara dug a deep hole with the farm equipment next to the horse fence. Then she walked the circle alone with a wrapped up bundle. She lowered herself into the knee deep hole, and gently laid her Mikie to rest.

Children of the New Millennium: Lynn's Near-Death Experience
(http://near-death.com/experiences/animals02.html)
“From the light came two dogs of mine. One was a collie named Mimi who had died three years previously from an infection, and the other was a box named Sam who had died two years before after being hit by a car. The dogs came running and jumped on me and kissed my face with their tongues. Their tongues weren't wet, and I felt no weight when they jumped on me.  The dogs seemed to glow from a light that was inside them.”

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

Oh my, this is very interesting as I didn't know animals had souls.