Violence in Video Games

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Hello boys and girls.

I have been seeing a lot of talk in the media about violence in video games being blamed for violence in our society, including mass killings like we saw in CT.

I make video games for a living. I tell stories and create art. I have worked with Audrey Geisel, Stan and Jan Bernstein, Mark Brown, Mercer Mayer, and Janell Canon (just to name a few) to make games for children. I have also made games for adults with themes of love, betrayal, conspiracy, government mind control, ghosts, friendship, sex, war, and death.

I have always fought for proper labeling of video games; a position which was not always popular with my colleagues. Video games are labelled T for Teen or M for Mature so that parents are empowered to keep inappropriate material away from their kids. Unfortunately, it seems that most parents are ignoring this. Parents are choosing to let their kids have these games.

This drives me nuts because we go through great pains to give them that label. We submit our games to the ESRB and make adjustments as needed, just like movie producers have to do. To ignore that and then complain about violent video games is like giving your kids x-rated movies and then complaining that they are inappropriate.

I just saw yet another news story that failed to mention this. Marin county is having a buy back of violent video games to reduce violence. The news story talked about the effects of exposing children to violent games while showing clips from several games that I know are rated M for Mature.

There is always some new boogeyman to blame for corrupting the minds of our youth. It used to be rock and roll. Before that it was comic books. Now it is video games. I think this entire discussion is just plain stupid.

Is there too much violence in our media? Yes. Do we need to take responsibility for what we expose ourselves and our kids to? Yes. Do we need government to be the parent of all of us because we refuse to be parents of ourselves and our children? Um... no.

[DeDukshyn]

I agree Whiskey, everything is being blamed on what is actually poor / lazy parenting. The "self" is so glorified inside the "system" that it actually affects some peoples abilities to raise their own children ... this is sad, because instead of trying to address the problem, we trying to assign blame and not take responsibility. This is the sign of a society falling apart.

So I definitely agree that the ratings on video games means nothing to people these days, I have seen kids as young as 4 or 5 playing call of duty -- this is wrong in my opinion.


What really irks me about the games these days is the advertising in them. Disgusting. This means that the advertisers and their "big bucks" have some power over the development of the game (even if this wasn't "known" - it's how big advertising works these days) and this is also wrong.

Before blaming the games (or music for that matter) for violent acts of people, maybe first we should see if we should be blaming current mass media and poor parenting due to the programmed artificially inflated "self" for the purpose of keeping consumptionism at its peak.

[Carmody]

We, as a species, have 'heard' for a very long time. And we have communicated via 'hearing' for a very long time.

Thus, we have had the chance to learn, over this long period, how to discern lies, distractions, and subversion, etc...within the scope of words and sounds..voices. Due to how we use internal voices while visually reading, this partially covers 'printed word' as an intermediary step, step to the next thing..which is visual.

What we have now, in front of us, is a new thing.

We have fabrication, in the world of visualization.

Previously, this was the sole concern and operating area of magicians and the like. (in most cases)

Thus, humanity, as a learned individual and whole, has precious little experience in these areas. All new. Like a babe in the woods. Most seriously. Like a doorway for programming children.

And that this new arena of fabricated reality, via visual means..is in the beginnings of the steep learning curve of humanity, as individuals and as a whole...this learning curve intensity has the capacity to alter us powerfully. Humanity has that statement of 'seeing is believing' for a reason. Fabrication of reality via visual means was a non-starter, a serious level of impossibility to the human body and mind, just 100 years ago.

hopefully one can see then, that this is not just a run of the mill situation, that this visual media and visual remote communication system, and the emergent computerized fabrications, are part and parcel of what is essentially an entirely new learning and teaching tool for the human mind and data input/retention system...in a way that has never before been experienced.

In a way that is just as powerful as programming a newborn child, for it challenges us, it is received by us, on the deepest levels, in our least defended area.

What I'm saying is that the question and answer of the situation as it stands today, has to be viewed from a position that takes into account and into consideration, the fundamentals of what the human avatar/body IS and what is going on at the basic bodily programming level.

It is not just another form of a lie or a fabrication, or fantasy..., it is a hole in the developed armour and capacity to cognate and exist by.....that an entire freight train is in the process of being driven through.

As Marshall Mcluhan said (two quotes):

"The medium IS the message."

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness."

[humanalien]

What is the name of the company that you work for?

Could you name off a few game titles that you have created?

[Whiskey_Mystic]

What is the name of the company that you work for?

Could you name off a few game titles that you have created?

I won't name the company I am with right now. I have been in the business for twenty years, so I have worked for some of the biggest companies on some of the biggest titles. I have also worked on smaller independent projects.

It just occurs to me that some of you might enjoy the work of Jane McGonigal, whom I had the pleasure of meeting recently. Jane writes on the power of games for good, such as Leukemia patients increasing their survivability through playing games about being inside your body fighting cancer cells.

http://janemcgonigal.com/

[baddbob]

I personaly think its more the music and tv that kids listen to now that are programing the young kids minds.Me and my wife live on Main st. and we sit on our porch and the young kids walk down the the streets all dressed in there ganster cloths with headphones on and rapping there music out loud with stuff like kill the cops,rape your grandmother ect.Its got to be programing there heads.When I grew up in the 60's and 70's we didnt have that violent stuff it was all peace and love.Its heading for helter skelter every day I see it progressing.Very sad and not much we can do about it.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Hello there OP and thank you for this.

IMO violence in games > gun control for sure.
the elephant in the room!

Out of the last major 5 mass murderers I think all of the young men played shooter games or WOW.

Isn't that something? It's more than a major correlation, it's solid gold (or solid poop more like it!)

loughner
holmes
donovan
lanza?
brievik

to name too many

[Carmody]

It is almost impossible these days to find a single western male, under the age of 40, who owns guns..and has NOT played any FPS (First person Shooter) games. I'd guess the correlation is somewhere north of 95%.

I'm probably wrong about that, but probably to the tune of less than 5% off from the actual statistic.

So, the introduction of that to the discussion by any governmental or gun control group..... is a partial truth, and very much a red herring/straw man.

Another way to put it:

Approximately 33% of the human population has the genetic traits and markers for having an addictive personality, regarding narcotics.

Now, close enough that it makes no perceivable difference...100% of all cocaine addicts have that genetic trait.

See what I mean?

I'm not disagreeing with or contradicting my prior post in this thread.

I'm trying to make sure that the frameworks and groundworks of the question and answer are not subverted from their true depths and actual realities.

To dig in and really get to the core, and stay off the surface, which is where those who control societies want you to remain..while they subvert via knowledge of and manipulation in the hidden, or unrealized depths.

[DeDukshyn]

It is almost impossible these days to find a single western male, under the age of 40, who owns guns..and has NOT played any FPS (First person Shooter) games. I'd guess the correlation is somewhere north of 95%.

I'm probably wrong about that, but probably to the tune of less than 5% off from the actual statistic.

So, the introduction of that to the discussion by any governmental or gun control group..... is a partial truth, and very much a red herring/straw man.

On the flip side, I have spent a fair bit of time in my life playing some of the most violent games, and never have owned a gun, nor really feel I need to, nor have I had violent or criminal tendencies, perfectly clean criminal record and even a clean driving record.

But you are correct, using correlation as causation is the name of their game, while perhaps proper statistical analysis would likely show something very different. Just like how vitamin E became the headlined "Killer E!" due to a perversion of a few insignificant and unreliable stats that someone used to further their agenda.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

i have no problem making and maintaining a link between the suggestion of killing and the killings themselves.

that is my opinion and to me it's final.

if i was FBI i would be pointing it out too, these game playing murderers at age 20, even if people laughed at me.

you can't fill your heart and your dreams with killing and be normal.

END OF STORY!

[Bryston]

I just saw yet another news story that failed to mention this. Marin county is having a buy back of violent video games to reduce violence. The news story talked about the effects of exposing children to violent games while showing clips from several games that I know are rated M for Mature.

There is always some new boogeyman to blame for corrupting the minds of our youth. It used to be rock and roll. Before that it was comic books. Now it is video games. I think this entire discussion is just plain stupid.

Is there too much violence in our media? Yes. Do we need to take responsibility for what we expose ourselves and our kids to? Yes. Do we need government to be the parent of all of us because we refuse to be parents of ourselves and our children? Um... no.

Totally agree with your perspective on this one. As you say, once it was rock and roll, comic books e.t.c. At one point it was probably the Charleston. I think there are two things that come with this type of periodic can rattling.

1) Popular medias constant misguided conversation with itself about game violence, and its effects is a natural consequence of its resistance to change.
2) Quite obviously, if this is the kind of response your industry is getting from officialdom, then it is the new rock and roll. Keep rocking I say.

As for ratings, I think rating information is informative enough on games as it is. It is the consumers responsibility to utilize any media in a manner that doesn't effect others adversely. Once that element of personal responsibility is taken out of any art forms interaction with its audience, then that art has ceased to be in my opinion.

Mines a double Glen Morangie orange .

[gooty64]

Violence in movies and games is fueled and fed by the human pain body.
Pain bodies make it and pain bodies pay money to consume it.

I remember the last 2 stupid violent movies I watched in the 80's. Aliens and Friday the 13th (prolly sequels) in the same summer.
I had the epiphany of wtf?, why do i do that to myself.....and never want back for more.

Then a few years ago Eckhart Tolle put it all into words using "pain body" to describe the sick phenomena of enjoying and getting off on violence.

[nurgle]

I personally have played video games all my life, My favorite games tend to be more of the FPS (first person shooters). I have never owned a gun in my life and probably won't. I have also have been heavily medicated on Many antidepressants through periods of my life. I have many friends that are just like me, no guns and on were or still on antidepressants; (we did not go on murder sprees). All the polls and studies that come out on video game violence are always driven by one side or the other, what I mean is that you can probably find a study that is against the violent video games or find a study that says that video games aren't the problem (you get to choose what you want to believe). Now in my opinion I truly believe it comes down to the person's natural chemical make-up and enviroment that they grow up in, that controls how they are going to react to certain stimuli from the outside, the world, society, etc... To put the blame on just video games is crazy to me, or just music, or just anything that a majority in the population doesn't participate in (which is kinda the I don't understand it so I am scared of it and it must be bad mentality).

Just a long time observation of mine, The actual main stream News on TV, Newspapers, the Web etc... is one of the most negative and violent things and people watch and or read every night. I totally bet More people consume the news every night in some way than play violent video games. The news is where are brain washing is, all you see is problems, death, war, crime... things of that nature, every now and then a heart warming story and the weather but lets be honest, that is not the stuff that makes the ratings! The Medias need to take a long look at themselves in my opinion.

Thank you for listening to me on my soap box.
be safe!

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I notice most movies out of hollywood are filled with guns and deah. Perhaps filling a requirement from the audience seeing they are so popular. Eventually this sort of programming does have a social effect.

I have a selection of video games as i am a huge fan of interactive media. Halo reach is awesome, why? Because it puts you as a hero but thats not why i like it. I dont even enjoy shooting things really, what i love about it is the solitude and freedom, two very com forting factors.

The rest of my games collection are forza 1 2 3 NFS underground 2 ( absolutely brilliant ) NFS undercover ( soundtrack is off the chart ) Doom II :-) forget it! Legend game!

Except for forza, the rest of these games have elements of illegal activity. Why? Because we are intrinsicly fed upwith control mechanisms and video media is an interface of fantasy freedom. Its an enviroment to release anger and tension. We can judge all we want wether they are good or bad and there is arguments for both.

The fact is it exists because of a demand. I used to enjoy sharp shooting and was trained from a young age to shoot long distance targets. Now these days i still love this type of sport but i dont like to kill live targets. In a video enviroment i can have a long range 50 cal and enjo:-)y the sport without harming anybody / thing.

Ultimately parents must learn to teach children dicipline. The parents today, most of which should not have children. They dont have any technique to teaching dicipline, and monitoring their input. This is the parents fault. As long as there are entrepenuers making money from popular media etc they will always follow the trail to the pot of gold. The trail leads to society being sick of control and demand violent retributive fantasy to relieve them.

Better this relief come in a virtual enviroment. Is this a training ground for the real thing? Hmm, yeah, but no. Do fast driving games make me want to speed on the roads? hmmm no, But i love driving fast so i drive on a race track. Would some of these games i spire some to run from police as a thrill seeking game? Hmm, maybe.

In the end we are all responsible for our selves.

Question Whiskey Mystic. Why is it that the new halo game has changed the aliens language to english? The little aliens sound exactly like children. Its a bit creepy. Do you know the developer of this game?


Nanoo

[DeDukshyn]

I notice most movies out of hollywood are filled with guns and deah. Perhaps filling a requirement from the audience seeing they are so popular. Eventually this sort of programming does have a social effect.

I have a selection of video games as i am a huge fan of interactive media. Halo reach is awesome, why? Because it puts you as a hero but thats not why i like it. I dont even enjoy shooting things really, what i love about it is the solitude and freedom, two very com forting factors.

The rest of my games collection are forza 1 2 3 NFS underground 2 ( absolutely brilliant ) NFS undercover ( soundtrack is off the chart ) Doom II :-) forget it! Legend game!

Except for forza, the rest of these games have elements of illegal activity. Why? Because we are intrinsicly fed upwith control mechanisms and video media is an interface of fantasy freedom. Its an enviroment to release anger and tension. We can judge all we want wether they are good or bad and there is arguments for both.

The fact is it exists because of a demand. I used to enjoy sharp shooting and was trained from a young age to shoot long distance targets. Now these days i still love this type of sport but i dont like to kill live targets. In a video enviroment i can have a long range 50 cal and enjo:-)y the sport without harming anybody / thing.

Ultimately parents must learn to teach children dicipline. The parents today, most of which should not have children. They dont have any technique to teaching dicipline, and monitoring their input. This is the parents fault. As long as there are entrepenuers making money from popular media etc they will always follow the trail to the pot of gold. The trail leads to society being sick of control and demand violent retributive fantasy to relieve them.

Better this relief come in a virtual enviroment. Is this a training ground for the real thing? Hmm, yeah, but no. Do fast driving games make me want to speed on the roads? hmmm no, But i love driving fast so i drive on a race track. Would some of these games i spire some to run from police as a thrill seeking game? Hmm, maybe.

In the end we are all responsible for our selves.

Question Whiskey Mystic. Why is it that the new halo game has changed the aliens language to english? The little aliens sound exactly like children. Its a bit creepy. Do you know the developer of this game?


Nanoo

What!? You never played Half Life 2? Seriously, the best FPS ever made 100% hands down, even to this day! It has every element an Avalonian could ever want!! Alien Invasion through iinterdimensional portals, trying (and succeeding) to take over the earth, the world "elite" have sided with the attacking aliens, we got zombies, giant blobs, burrowing insects, gravity guns, secret agents from another dimension, what else would you need!!?? ;) ;)

[lookbeyond]

Hi Whiskey-Mystic, thanks for posting, as a mother of a young teenage boy, these are hard times to parent i can assure you!
"all the kids at school play it! even some of the girls!!"
"all my friends are online playing- why am i the only one who cant join in, i want to be part of the clan"

So coming from a mother who stomach is turned by violence and a father who spent most of his childhood in a wartorn country we delayed the inevitable for as long as possible.
Violent war games sadly are considered a "normal" childhood "rite" these days.
I dont know of any who have denied their sons this "rite of passage"- were the toy soldiers of the past a distant relative? I dont know- we limit his time on these games and he prefers to kill zombies than other soldiers. He also plays MineCraft which is a building/creative game - hopefully this helps balance things out- who knows. He is otherwise a karate kid and rides his bike to the park most days to play soccer with a friend- he is a "sensitive soul" kind and empathetic, stands up for those who cant.

The game is a small part of his life, i hope he will grow out of it- maybe when he becomes more interested in girls? No real resolution for me- a mothers lament

[Camilo]

CARLOS SANTANA ON CONNECTICUT SHOOTING:

We are a violent country; that is our history & our present. It is internalized in all of us. We kill for money, for power, for influence & for attention. I say "we" because I am a taxpayer & my money supports wars abroad as well as mass incarceration at home. Time to stop acting surprised when Americans kill children on our own lands; we do it abroad in the name of "anti terrorism" "foreign aid"
& "democracy" everyday. On every continent. Indigenous children are most often the ones under attack, simply because their existence challenges America's reign of superiority. Until our culture learns to value human life over currency & power, this will be our reality.

True, a country built on dehumanization is likely to perpetuate cycles of violence. There is hope though, because culture is not set in stone! We are subject to it, but we also shape it. Banning weapons is not culture shaping, it is just law. Shaping culture starts with how we educate our youth on how to place value on community & our place in Mother Nature. & we must speak truthfully about our history. Do not lose hope, fam. Let's get educated on this issue of violence...

Even at home, we criminalize our youth before they even know how to read, destining them for a future in prison or 6 feet under. Do you value all life the same? Do you think things have no value except as commodity? Do you think children whose parents don't like America's policies of violence deserve to die? Let's change what we teach our future generations so that they don't have to wake up everyday in the middle of multiple wars. All it takes is a willingness to change how we treat each other & how we perceive ourselves. Life is too beautiful to keep robbing children of their futures. Peace.

[Hughe]

Cars kill more people than guns in U.S. Let's get the fact straight first. Traffic accidents on ground transportation mostly cars kill over one million people and number of casualty is close fifty million annually in world wide. The dirty truth is hidden plain in sight. Collective stupidity, manipulation of general public.

U.S. Traffic Deaths Drop to Lowest Level in 60 Years - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/us/01driving.html

An estimated 32788 people were killed in traffic accidents in 2010, the fewest in more ... Published: April 1, 2011 ... That represents a 25 percent decline since 2005, when there were 43,510 traffic fatalities, and the fewest deaths since 1949 ...


How many U.S soldiers got killed during Vietnam War? 50,000 some.

The road kill ratio gets bigger in 2nd/3rd world countries. Death and fear are everywhere. Humans literally kill each other on invisible battle fields. I'm just grateful to see another sunrise next morning.

[PathWalker]

The more we find THEY are responsible, we stay in victimized drama.
Many of us like the position of victims. In the victim position there are those to blame, and us to be righteous.

Actually what we see out there with the youth brutality is pure social reflection of us and our consumerism values.
If you look into ancient human society there is more brutality and cruelty as common as: slavery and hand to hand wars.

If you find yourself in righteous position, take a second look in the mirror.

Good luck with self reflections.

[Youniverse]

Those who say violent video games, violence on tv, violence glorifying movies, and so on, have no effect on our actions, probably haven't looked closely enough at how we actually operate. I'm sure you've all heard about the law of attraction and those kinds of ideas. As it turns out, there's more to it than that, though the mechanism may be similar. Do you still think that "seeing is believing"? Or is it the other way around? Why not experiment(if you haven't already) and use your own experience as your guide? Many wise masters including Saint Augustine have said that one's reality is created from the inside out. In other words, the thoughts, words, and actions one engages in (consistent ones with common vibrations/energy) over significant periods of time have a direct result on the kind of reality one experiences. You get what you ask for. The universe doesn't care if those thoughts are there because of a video game, a movie, or something your partner says to you on a daily basis, it just keeps creating. Or more accurately YOU keep on creating. So if you play violent video games a lot over extended periods of time, there are going to be many thoughts of violence and the like going on in your head. If you have several friends that engage in violence, or talk about violence around you, those kinds of thoughts and images are going to linger in your head. And therefore, the powerful creative force that you are springs into action to place before you a myriad of violent acts and events to confirm your energy focus.

Maybe science is yet to prove what I'm saying here, or maybe it hasn't? All it takes is the will to look a little closer at things than most and you will see this to be true. Don't fool yourself into thinking violence of any sort and any medium cannot have a significant effect on ones reality.

[DeDukshyn]

Those who say violent video games, violence on tv, violence glorifying movies, and so on, have no effect on our actions, probably haven't looked closely enough at how we actually operate. I'm sure you've all heard about the law of attraction and those kinds of ideas. As it turns out, there's more to it than that, though the mechanism may be similar. Do you still think that "seeing is believing"? Or is it the other way around? Why not experiment(if you haven't already) and use your own experience as your guide? Many wise masters including Saint Augustine have said that one's reality is created from the inside out. In other words, the thoughts, words, and actions one engages in (consistent ones with common vibrations/energy) over significant periods of time have a direct result on the kind of reality one experiences. You get what you ask for. The universe doesn't care if those thoughts are there because of a video game, a movie, or something your partner says to you on a daily basis, it just keeps creating. Or more accurately YOU keep on creating. So if you play violent video games a lot over extended periods of time, there are going to be many thoughts of violence and the like going on in your head. If you have several friends that engage in violence, or talk about violence around you, those kinds of thoughts and images are going to linger in your head. And therefore, the powerful creative force that you are springs into action to place before you a myriad of violent acts and events to confirm your energy focus.

Maybe science is yet to prove what I'm saying here, or maybe it hasn't? All it takes is the will to look a little closer at things than most and you will see this to be true. Don't fool yourself into thinking violence of any sort and any medium cannot have a significant effect on ones reality.

Personally, In myself and many others I see some, but perhaps little, correlation. But in many others I do see a strong correlation. I saw a live hypnotist show at a bar one evening ... some of the people were easily susceptible to hypnosis and many others, despite wanting to participate were not able to be hypnotized. In reality the problem is not as much the exposure (although there is some influence), as the effect of that seem to be highly variable, as it may be to the susceptibility of the minds of the masses.

There are certain ways to train your mind to be mostly entirely outside of this susceptibility ... this is where we need to be looking for solutions in my 2 cents worth, like I said, myself and many others have played violent games and never had a violent tendency in our life. Therefore this issue is more complex then it seems. Since the fault that is utilized by the PTB to control us exists inside the minds of the masses -- then that is also where the permanent solution lies, advanced spirituality is not far removed from psychology ... my 2 cents ;)

[Youniverse]

Yes of course this can get very complex. I have no idea what the threshold of "too much" or "too long" is. It probably always depends on the individual. Though some would say a great deal of the thoughts and emotions we experience on a daily basis were produced by the collective consciousness, and the rest are the individual consciousness. I too have played some violent video games in my life and have long since outgrown any violent tendencies or impulses. This is where it gets really tricky. Why do some people outgrow or mature past these sorts of things and others do not? Do you still play violent video games on a regular basis? How long did you sustain that behavious? What else was going on in your life? What were your role models? All these and many more play into it. I maintain my original point. Where you focus the majority of your thoughts, words, or actions, is where your soon-to-be experienced reality will materialize.

[TigaHawk]

Something which i find alot scarier than the "suposid" violence "caused from playing video games"

is the fact that a very popular game has pretty much turned into a programming tool. It was fun to start off with, then the last few years it has changed drematically. Its training you to do monotonus tasks, to find doing them "fun". The reward for doing these tasks over and over, for months, is shiny pieces of loot....


From a young age i played Commander Keen, Halloween Harry, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Medal of Honor & Call of Duty, alot of games that people can instantly go yes playing those make you violent! I call BS. I would still rather hurt myself than another person. You become violent becuase of the way you are raised and your enviroment, this is where lack of good parenting is a big thing. but is far easier to blame a violent computer game... right?

[DeDukshyn]

Yes of course this can get very complex. I have no idea what the threshold of "too much" or "too long" is. It probably always depends on the individual. Though some would say a great deal of the thoughts and emotions we experience on a daily basis were produced by the collective consciousness, and the rest are the individual consciousness. I too have played some violent video games in my life and have long since outgrown any violent tendencies or impulses. This is where it gets really tricky. Why do some people outgrow or mature past these sorts of things and others do not? Do you still play violent video games on a regular basis? How long did you sustain that behavious? What else was going on in your life? What were your role models? All these and many more play into it. I maintain my original point. Where you focus the majority of your thoughts, words, or actions, is where your soon-to-be experienced reality will materialize.

Yes I think this is the key ... and also why I always preach variety is the spice of life, and moderation is imperative. I seem to have some self moderating tendencies, where any single exposure of the same type very soon drives me mad ... even Avalon does that to me, and I have to get away from here and balance myself with vastly less negativity and fear (Avalon is just about as bad as any game I have played, yet you have to take the bad with the good sometimes -- as long as your filters are working properly)

My 2 cents ;)

[Youniverse]

Something which i find alot scarier than the "suposid" violence "caused from playing video games"

is the fact that a very popular game has pretty much turned into a programming tool. It was fun to start off with, then the last few years it has changed drematically. Its training you to do monotonus tasks, to find doing them "fun". The reward for doing these tasks over and over, for months, is shiny pieces of loot....


From a young age i played Commander Keen, Halloween Harry, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Medal of Honor & Call of Duty, alot of games that people can instantly go yes playing those make you violent! I call BS. I would still rather hurt myself than another person. You become violent becuase of the way you are raised and your enviroment, this is where lack of good parenting is a big thing. but is far easier to blame a violent computer game... right?

I appreciate your point. Point well taken! That is why I would NEVER say that violent video games are the only cause, or the main cause of violence in society. Yes these games do reflect current societal values. The mirror works in many ways. So what I've said and continue to say for quite a while now is that the problem is the culture. You take on the monumental but doable task of transforming society into something infinitely more positive, and many problems simply disappear. The big problem up til now has been that too many people simply haven't evolved enough to make such change possible. Until now.

[Grumpy Cat]

I'm in two worlds about the effects of these games to be honest - and I say that as someone who spent most of his adolescence playing them (I'm 22).

I've always been a pretty "angry" person until recently when I woke up as such, but that anger could just as easily be blamed on the rest of my upbringing, as I've had a very dysfunctional time of it. Now I'm just flat out grumpy with a small optimism streak. :p

They're a great escape from the real world, such as it is, but I think it's very important to enforce this on kids. Most are too impressionable to be left alone with things that have gratuitous violence.. they can get the wrong idea.

Games that are more detached from reality, say an historical game (swords instead of guns) doesn't seem to have as much of an effect since one can't as easily relate it to the real world, and frankly I enjoyed such games far more than the shoot-em-ups. More escapism plus I'm probably satisfying the past life section of my spirit, haha.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Question Whiskey Mystic. Why is it that the new halo game has changed the aliens language to english? The little aliens sound exactly like children. Its a bit creepy. Do you know the developer of this game?


Sorry, I cannot help you there. I don't even play HALO, although I did enjoy the setting of the original. It was very imaginative, like something from a Larry Niven novel.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Those who say violent video games, violence on tv, violence glorifying movies, and so on, have no effect on our actions, probably haven't looked closely enough at how we actually operate.


I haven't seen anyone say that. Have you?

[Carmody]

Those who say violent video games, violence on tv, violence glorifying movies, and so on, have no effect on our actions, probably haven't looked closely enough at how we actually operate.


I haven't seen anyone say that. Have you?


We all know that the issues are directly connected, but the exact mechanics, the gearworks, are to some extent, shrouded in mystery. No matter what given "Mister TV talking head psychologist-all the way to-cultural Anthropologist"...MIGHT say.

it's not that I'm illiterate on the gearworks of the human system, no.

in many ways, in the most important ways, it matters not what I understand.

What matters here is how the reality is connected in people, in the 'masses', how that is presented to these masses. What they end up connecting to and moving forward with. THAT is the entire key thing, that the differing groups fighting for the attention of the world masses' meandering eye..that is what they are trying to steer.

Some of them give it a push, through their favorite mechanisms...Fear and herd instinct. Then they direct and control the conversation, right down to the presentation and depth of the material the decisions are based on. They are playing for the future, but their moves are not really all that more connected than immediate future outcomes. They always head for the low road, the hindbrain of humans... as humans are far, far more predictable and controllable via those avenues.

To go beyond that, they have to refer to a piece of paper which they wrote some **** directive and steps on, whatever that is planned to be.

With respect to the emergent outcome of the immediate future on this subject, what I'm saying here, regarding my earlier posts..those posts will have zero effect on the current outcome.

But what they (my posts and such thinking) are saying WILL grow. And the question, to me, is if they will grow enough to finally be a thumb in the eye and a knee in the crotch of the elites.

I do not know, but that is the way I'm rolling them out. To try my best to introduce what I think true clarity is, when and where I can.

Understand that they play for a future game, but their current or immediate hold in the future time sense, is actually..very short. And that is their weak spot, where they fail. if you move fast enough and at the same time carefully enough they CAN be dealt a serious blow. Add a few together... and they will be deeply disabled. It HAS been done, at times.

Thus, the 60's nearly took them out. Which is why their gameplan had to change, in the 70's.

[mosquito]

While I agree with the OP's view that we are all responsible for our actions and we shouldn't blame manufacturers of product X for the actions of Johnny Z, corporations do actually have some responsibility to society. Presumable the designers of these games design them in order to sell them. Is that an unreasonable assumption ? Do these companies' marketing departments do their work simply as a way to prevent themselves being bored ?

Following the logic that seems to be predominant here, then if a company somewhere on Earth decided to manufacture a vibrator 2cm long and 8mm wide and market it toward 8 year olds, would it really just be the parents' fault for buying it ? And if anyone decides that only a sick mind could possibly think up such an example, I would ask what kind of mind thinks up "games" which involve the imaginary (but increasingly realistic) killing of other people ?

[Whiskey_Mystic]

While I agree with the OP's view that we are all responsible for our actions and we shouldn't blame manufacturers of product X for the actions of Johnny Z, corporations do actually have some responsibility to society. Presumable the designers of these games design them in order to sell them. Is that an unreasonable assumption ? Do these companies' marketing departments do their work simply as a way to prevent themselves being bored ?

Following the logic that seems to be predominant here, then if a company somewhere on Earth decided to manufacture a vibrator 2cm long and 8mm wide and market it toward 8 year olds, would it really just be the parents' fault for buying it ? And if anyone decides that only a sick mind could possibly think up such an example, I would ask what kind of mind thinks up "games" which involve the imaginary (but increasingly realistic) killing of other people ?

I think you missed my point. My point is that these games are not made for children and are clearly labeled as such. And they are not marketed to children, either. Generally, children do not have the purchasing power for a $60 game. There are many things which we find acceptable in our society for adults, but which are inappropriate for children.

And to answer your question, games tell stories. I have made games myself in which characters die. I have also written stories in which characters die. If you do not wish to be exposed to intense stories that show that aspect of the human experience, then I honor your choice. There are many ways that every different art expresses itself.

[mosquito]

Thanks WM, I do get your point, and I'm not challenging your integrity nor that of everyone in your industry. Games which reflect the trials and tribulations of life, be they "realistic" or fantasy based are great, but there is a predominance of games which are focussed upon the player being a killing machine, and I think it would be naive to think that these are not marketed toward a specific audience; putting a label on the box saying "not suitable for children" is a guaranteed way of getting their attention, marketeers know that. Putting a health warning on cigarettes didn't work, did it ?

Anyway, I agree that the causes of violence in society are very complex and are not due to any single issue and it could equally be argued (and I'm sure there are those in business who would argue) that the manufacturers are simply meeting the needs of the market.

[bram]

Hi Whiskey-Mystic, thanks for posting, as a mother of a young teenage boy, these are hard times to parent i can assure you!
"all the kids at school play it! even some of the girls!!"
"all my friends are online playing- why am i the only one who cant join in, i want to be part of the clan"

So coming from a mother who stomach is turned by violence and a father who spent most of his childhood in a wartorn country we delayed the inevitable for as long as possible.
Violent war games sadly are considered a "normal" childhood "rite" these days.
I dont know of any who have denied their sons this "rite of passage"- were the toy soldiers of the past a distant relative? I dont know- we limit his time on these games and he prefers to kill zombies than other soldiers. He also plays MineCraft which is a building/creative game - hopefully this helps balance things out- who knows. He is otherwise a karate kid and rides his bike to the park most days to play soccer with a friend- he is a "sensitive soul" kind and empathetic, stands up for those who cant.

The game is a small part of his life, i hope he will grow out of it- maybe when he becomes more interested in girls? No real resolution for me- a mothers lament

My two sons are long grown up now, but there was nothing I could do to stop them playing violent video games. the fact is that teenage (and younger) boys love them. Killing, squashing and splattering blood bring howls of delight. To what extent this is responsible for acts of violence I have no idea- I suggest this is a complex equation. But these disgusting games certainly contribute to cultural conditioning, and they form a big part (hours and hours per day) of the growing child's cultural environment. The least they do is desensitize the children to extreme violence, which subsequently makes them care less should they see atrocities committed in the real world.

[bram]

Generally, children do not have the purchasing power for a $60 game.

Yes they do. they download a cracked version. They know how to use the net far better than we know usually.

can I also add that cigarettes are not marketed to children either, and yet.....

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Generally, children do not have the purchasing power for a $60 game.

Yes they do. they download a cracked version. They know how to use the net far better than we know usually.

can I also add that cigarettes are not marketed to children either, and yet.....

Children downloading cracked versions of software means $0 for the developer. Again, game companies do not market mature-themed games to children. At least not that I have ever seen.

Now, if somebody were to postulate that there is an intentional effort to program our minds to be a low vibration and keep us bloodthirsty and disharmonious because enlightenment would throw off the yoke of oppression (inhale), yeah I'd agree with that. This is in all of our media and our news. Video games are the latest form of violence in our society. but in the past we have had everything from public hangings to the roman colosseum. Violent entertainment of all sorts is part of the opium given to the masses to keep them servile and it works wonderfully along with pornography and the hypnosis box (TV). And as a society, we tend to say "more please".

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Hi Whiskey-Mystic, thanks for posting, as a mother of a young teenage boy, these are hard times to parent i can assure you!
"all the kids at school play it! even some of the girls!!"
"all my friends are online playing- why am i the only one who cant join in, i want to be part of the clan"

So coming from a mother who stomach is turned by violence and a father who spent most of his childhood in a wartorn country we delayed the inevitable for as long as possible.
Violent war games sadly are considered a "normal" childhood "rite" these days.
I dont know of any who have denied their sons this "rite of passage"- were the toy soldiers of the past a distant relative? I dont know- we limit his time on these games and he prefers to kill zombies than other soldiers. He also plays MineCraft which is a building/creative game - hopefully this helps balance things out- who knows. He is otherwise a karate kid and rides his bike to the park most days to play soccer with a friend- he is a "sensitive soul" kind and empathetic, stands up for those who cant.

The game is a small part of his life, i hope he will grow out of it- maybe when he becomes more interested in girls? No real resolution for me- a mothers lament

If I had children, I would carefully monitor their access to violent games and other media as well. I really feel for you because I remember how all-consuming the drive to be part of the group is at that age. I think that Minecraft is a wonderfully creative game and appropriate for kids. If you ever need help finding appropriate games for your boy, check out Common Sense Media for some help. http://www.commonsensemedia.org/ They have listings of nonviolent games by age group.

[Laurel]

If I had children, I would carefully monitor their access to violent games and other media as well. I really feel for you because I remember how all-consuming the drive to be part of the group is at that age. I think that Minecraft is a wonderfully creative game and appropriate for kids. If you ever need help finding appropriate games for your boy, check out Common Sense Media for some help. http://www.commonsensemedia.org/ They have listings of nonviolent games by age group.

I completely agree with you. There are a lot of parents (non-gamers) in my community who buy video games for their kids without knowing anything about the content or paying attention to the rating. "All of the other kids have it" so their child should have it, too.

I do need to add that every gamer parent that I have met closely monitors what their kids are playing.

I'm aging myself, but add Zork to the list. Worst that can happen is you get eaten by a Grue. :rofl:

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Worst that can happen is you get eaten by a Grue. :rofl:

It is dark...

[Laurel]

Worst that can happen is you get eaten by a Grue. :rofl:

It is dark...

>LIGHT TORCH
What torch?
>SAY "OH CRAP"

[binemaya]

Do we play here the "who´s to blame - game?" Isn´t that a new version of the catholic mea culpa - thing? Doesn´t that mean to give aur power away?
I am aware that it is mental diszipline what helps most in creating a better life and violent games open a pathway to and for violence, no doubt.
But imo the solution is not to restrain or to block out or deny, it´s to welcome violence, it´s just like fear, a very low vibration and it´s an aspect of being human.
"Enlightenment is not imagining figures of light but making the darkness conscious." c.g.jung
I´ve heard from mine an other teenagers that they are quite aware what they are doing when engaging in playing violent games and I think it´s this awareness that keeps them healthy.
Of course it´s fundamental to always keep the lines open to the teens, even or especially then when they´re engaging in "dark matters", they are smarter than we think.
I also saw them getting rid of their TV, "´cause that is all bs anyway", so I choose to believe in their sovereign state of mind and their ability to judge and see the truth for themselves.
And after all it´s also me who refuses to believe that games can turn a good person evil, and that belief also opens a pathway. Doesn´t it? :peace:

[Referee]

Thanks Whisky Mystic great thread. Just like guns video games do not kill people unless you are a drone operator.

[bram]

If I had children, I would carefully monitor their access to violent games and other media as well. I really feel for you because I remember how all-consuming the drive to be part of the group is at that age. I think that Minecraft is a wonderfully creative game and appropriate for kids. If you ever need help finding appropriate games for your boy, check out Common Sense Media for some help. http://www.commonsensemedia.org/ They have listings of nonviolent games by age group.

I completely agree with you. There are a lot of parents (non-gamers) in my community who buy video games for their kids without knowing anything about the content or paying attention to the rating. "All of the other kids have it" so their child should have it, too.

I do need to add that every gamer parent that I have met closely monitors what their kids are playing.

I'm aging myself, but add Zork to the list. Worst that can happen is you get eaten by a Grue. :rofl:

Hi laurel,

can yu explain how they closely monitor the games their kids are playing. I can see this working at 8 years old, but not at 15!!

[Laurel]

I completely agree with you. There are a lot of parents (non-gamers) in my community who buy video games for their kids without knowing anything about the content or paying attention to the rating. "All of the other kids have it" so their child should have it, too.

I do need to add that every gamer parent that I have met closely monitors what their kids are playing.

I'm aging myself, but add Zork to the list. Worst that can happen is you get eaten by a Grue. :rofl:

Hi laurel,

can yu explain how they closely monitor the games their kids are playing. I can see this working at 8 years old, but not at 15!!

Hi Bram,

Yes, it's a lot harder to keep tabs on a 15 year olds. That doesn't mean that you can't be aware of what they are doing and how long they are playing.

For instance, my office is in the loft of my boss' house. Her son, who just turned 16, has played games for the past few years alone or with his friends in the room below. I poke my head in, say hi and check out what they're playing (without being overbearing). The cool part is that when he started playing Skyrim, he asked me for help.

But you're right, the "closely monitored" comment was mostly for younger kids up to about 12 years old. When I used to play WoW, my friends put together a kids guild for our children. Ages were about 8 though 12. There was always one of us online with them and checking the screen.

[Carmody]

Generally, children do not have the purchasing power for a $60 game.

Yes they do. they download a cracked version. They know how to use the net far better than we know usually.

can I also add that cigarettes are not marketed to children either, and yet.....

Children downloading cracked versions of software means $0 for the developer. Again, game companies do not market mature-themed games to children. At least not that I have ever seen.

Now, if somebody were to postulate that there is an intentional effort to program our minds to be a low vibration and keep us bloodthirsty and disharmonious because enlightenment would throw off the yoke of oppression (inhale), yeah I'd agree with that. This is in all of our media and our news. Video games are the latest form of violence in our society. but in the past we have had everything from public hangings to the roman colosseum. Violent entertainment of all sorts is part of the opium given to the masses to keep them servile and it works wonderfully along with pornography and the hypnosis box (TV). And as a society, we tend to say "more please".

A general reply to all.

Part of the problem, or origin point in that, is we learned our autonomous functions or 'routines' (programming lingo) as children.

And that neurological aspects are very much like physical exercise. Repetition increases strength and connectivity in the given function. The same goes for neurological wiring.

That, to this very day, if one was to say, be 50 years old or whatnot...that the mother of the child could see the very same physical motions in the adult, that where in the child.

and that we utilize or actually the very function and operation of the self, including the basics of cognition, are formed from a complex tree of all these autonomous routines.

That the coloration of the child is complete and total, in their flavors and colors, in both input and output.

We absolutely, undeniably, in full 100% function, operate in all ways, in the in/out filter mode of a child. All data points. All.

When you throw the aspects of the underlying animal that started the process of being the child who learned. then you get to the heart of the matter.

Intellect is just a nice sheen that thinks that it is in charge.

The reality is that I could kill, lets say, your dog in front of you..... --- and make you bawl like a small child.

Perhaps that would make the point abundantly clear.

[Youniverse]

Hi Whiskey-Mystic, thanks for posting, as a mother of a young teenage boy, these are hard times to parent i can assure you!
"all the kids at school play it! even some of the girls!!"
"all my friends are online playing- why am i the only one who cant join in, i want to be part of the clan"

So coming from a mother who stomach is turned by violence and a father who spent most of his childhood in a wartorn country we delayed the inevitable for as long as possible.
Violent war games sadly are considered a "normal" childhood "rite" these days.
I dont know of any who have denied their sons this "rite of passage"- were the toy soldiers of the past a distant relative? I dont know- we limit his time on these games and he prefers to kill zombies than other soldiers. He also plays MineCraft which is a building/creative game - hopefully this helps balance things out- who knows. He is otherwise a karate kid and rides his bike to the park most days to play soccer with a friend- he is a "sensitive soul" kind and empathetic, stands up for those who cant.

The game is a small part of his life, i hope he will grow out of it- maybe when he becomes more interested in girls? No real resolution for me- a mothers lament

My two sons are long grown up now, but there was nothing I could do to stop them playing violent video games. the fact is that teenage (and younger) boys love them. Killing, squashing and splattering blood bring howls of delight. To what extent this is responsible for acts of violence I have no idea- I suggest this is a complex equation. But these disgusting games certainly contribute to cultural conditioning, and they form a big part (hours and hours per day) of the growing child's cultural environment. The least they do is desensitize the children to extreme violence, which subsequently makes them care less should they see atrocities committed in the real world.

This is another way of approaching my main point. CONDITIONING! And de-sensitization occurs!