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RMorgan
17th January 2013, 17:27
Hey folks,

Well, I was always very suspicious about these allegedly Ki Gong/Kiai masters, who are always showing their skills on videos, defeating their opponents without even physically touching them.

The problem is that, his opponents, are always his own students, who, of course, are always biased towards their masters.

Anyway, one of these "Jedi" masters offered, as a challenge, U$5.000,00, saying that he could beat up any MMA fighter.

Well, unfortunately, a MMA fighter accepted the challenge, and this is what happened:

gEDaCIDvj6I

Now, what really impresses me is his students. Are they voluntary co-participants in a fraud, or are they simply passively hypnotized by their master, who clearly have no such paranormal powers?

Judging by the video, I guess the master really believes to have such powers, because he looks pretty surprised when he receives the first punch in the face. So, why is he convinced that he´s got powers, if he probably never confirmed it during a real conflict situation?

Who is responsible? The students who, through their complacency, convinced their master that he´s really got Chi power? Or the master, who managed to convince their students that he´s got such power to the point of hypnotizing them? Or both?

Is this a mutual support relationship, where both student and master collaborate to induce each other to believe in a fantasy?

Any possible parallels with the relationship between religious "gurus" and their followers?

Cheers,

Raf.

Spiral
17th January 2013, 17:47
Thanks, that proves exactly what I thought of these "masters" from other videos that I have seen posted on various forums.

Most of our civilization is founded on this kind of group delusion, its ubiquitous.

Operator
17th January 2013, 17:55
It sickens me to see how anxious such an MMA guy is for money, then aggressively beats up someone,
celebrates his victory and then only afterwards is somewhat concerned that he might have injured another human.

If the Ki Gong (Qigong according to Wikipedia) master would be fully aware of the scam he wouldn't have
challenged any MMA fighter. I also think he doesn't hypnotize his students. Otherwise he could have done that
with the MMA fighter too. It may indicate how strong belief systems are for those who go for it.

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 17:59
Thanks, that proves exactly what I thought of these "masters" from other videos that I have seen posted on various forums.

Most of our civilization is founded on this kind of group delusion, its ubiquitous.

Very nice observation, my friend.

Indeed, our society works like this.

A bunch of corporations sell their super-products, people love to buy their super-products so they can live their super-boring lives, building this super-messed up society in the process.

We feed the monster and the monster feeds us; It´s a symbiotic relationship.

Raf.


It sickens me to see how anxious such an MMA guy is for money, then aggressively beats up someone,
celebrates his victory and then only afterwards is somewhat concerned that he might have injured another human.

If the Ki Gong (Qigong according to Wikipedia) master would be fully aware of the scam he wouldn't have
challenged any MMA fighter. I also think he doesn't hypnotize his students. Otherwise he could have done that
with the MMA fighter too. It may indicate how strong belief systems are for those who go for it.

Well, I think the MMA fighter took it very easy with the old man. He was clearly concerned since the begining of the fight.

He could clearly have beaten up the guy to pieces, if he wanted to.

I had the impression that he was really holding himself, to avoid doing too much damage.

Besides, it was the master who offered the challenge. When you make a challenge, you have to accept the possibility of loosing.

PS: Ki Gong, or Qigong, are both correct.

donk
17th January 2013, 18:18
It sickens me to see how anxious such an MMA guy is for money, then aggressively beats up someone,
celebrates his victory and then only afterwards is somewhat concerned that he might have injured another human.


I dunno, dude, that's kinda like saying all the Wilcock haters dumping on him apologizing for so harshly calling him out once they realize they hurt his feelings is sickening...

this clown entered a contract, based on his own hype. I don't understand what is sickening on someone calling him out and then engaging in the activity they agreed upon. It's not like MMA-dude picked a fight at random, he answered a "master's" challenge to test his "skill". The fact that he showed compassion for hurting a fellow "fighter" to me show he's OK in my book.

The idea of physically dominating someone else is whole other thing. These people are attached to the idea that it is an art, they spend their time and energy competeing, or whatever. you have to discern that bad idea from the situation here. That particular incident was a challenge, a contract, consentual in every way, the fact that it is aggressively harming another is one thing (and I agree, is "sickening" to me)...but it's a given, is the framework. The act of feeling bad and showing compassion for SUCCEEDING at what they agreed to try to accompish is not sickening...to me anyway.

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 18:21
I knew someone would get their arse beat one day for spewing the fake, the fraudulent.

A lot of that going around these days.

A good thing me thinks. If your not the one who got yer arse beat that is.

DeDukshyn
17th January 2013, 18:22
I think it is this simple ... both the students and the master believe he has some power .. the MMA guy didn't buy that belief ... ;)

It didn't even look that ki gong or whatever guy knew how to fight for real ... lol.

Spiral
17th January 2013, 18:28
It reminded me of this http://www.wnd.com/2006/08/37702/

As for people getting hurt, well if you claim to be a fighter & enter the ring......Geez

I found the guy jumping & rolling, pretending he was being thrown hilarious.

Operator
17th January 2013, 18:34
It sickens me to see how anxious such an MMA guy is for money, then aggressively beats up someone,
celebrates his victory and then only afterwards is somewhat concerned that he might have injured another human.


I dunno, dude, that's kinda like saying all the Wilcock haters dumping on him apologizing for so harshly calling him out once they realize they hurt his feelings is sickening...

this clown entered a contract, based on his own hype. I don't understand what is sickening on someone calling him out and then engaging in the activity they agreed upon. It's not like MMA-dude picked a fight at random, he answered a "master's" challenge to test his "skill". The fact that he showed compassion for hurting a fellow "fighter" to me show he's OK in my book.

The idea of physically dominating someone else is whole other thing. These people are attached to the idea that it is an art, they spend their time and energy competeing, or whatever. you have to discern that bad idea from the situation here. That particular incident was a challenge, a contract, consentual in every way, the fact that it is aggressively harming another is one thing (and I agree, is "sickening" to me)...but it's a given, is the framework. The act of feeling bad and showing compassion for SUCCEEDING at what they agreed to try to accompish is not sickening...to me anyway.

I think I am misunderstood in that long sentence. The keyword was 'money'. It sickens me that people do it for the money.
For most of the rest I agree with you and Raf.

RUSirius
17th January 2013, 18:36
Wow, impressive, almost comical, what pops into my head is how "fake" the "fakers" really are.

Carmody
17th January 2013, 18:37
Hey folks,

Well, I was always very suspicious about these allegedly Ki Gong/Kiai masters, who are always showing their skills on videos, defeating their opponents without even physically touching them.

The problem is that, his opponents, are always his own students, who, of course, are always biased towards their masters.

Anyway, one of these "Jedi" masters offered, as a challenge, U$5.000,00, saying that he could beat up any MMA fighter.

Well, unfortunately, a MMA fighter accepted the challenge, and this is what happened:

gEDaCIDvj6I

Now, what really impresses me is his students. Are they voluntary co-participants in a fraud, or are they simply passively hypnotized by their master, who clearly have no such paranormal powers?

Judging by the video, I guess the master really believes to have such powers, because he looks pretty surprised when he receives the first punch in the face. So, why is he convinced that he´s got powers, if he probably never confirmed it during a real conflict situation?

Who is responsible? The students who, through their complacency, convinced their master that he´s really got Chi power? Or the master, who managed to convince their students that he´s got such power to the point of hypnotizing them? Or both?

Is this a mutual support relationship, where both student and master collaborate to induce each other to believe in a fantasy?

Any possible parallels with the relationship between religious "gurus" and their followers?

Cheers,

Raf.

Here's a clue.

When studies on psychic capacity have been done by accredited scientists, these well designed studies are set up so that they can properly 'proof' psychic sensitivity/capacity and the given aspect that is being explored.

To proof, one way or the other, in a situation that is deemed by all rational thought and potential..to be impossible to fake, or to have the situation manipulated by other potentials. to design as foolproof an experimental protocol as is possible.

And in their experiment, the psychic capacity/sensitivity..is found to be real.

That they have designed and implemented these published and peer reviewed works...so that they can back up their earlier findings in those areas. To be absolutely sure that they are not fooling themselves.

Then, due to other scientists saying that it is a bunch of bunk or crap science..the other disbelieving scientists repeat the experiments..which is the full and proper act of secondary separate proofing... and those other disbelieving scientists....find null or negative results.

One camp believes and finds, through rigorous and very well thought out experiments..that such capacities are for real.

Another camp, who thinks it is all garbage science.... repeats the experiments and finds ...that it is all crap. That the results are random, and it is all as unreal as they thought it was.

BOTH GROUPS..know for a fact, that the experiments are perfectly designed and cannot be faked.

Each group accuses the other... of faking the results, as each knows they've done their work to utter perfection, in a situation, an experiment.... that is impossible to fake.

Then one of the scientists involved gets an idea.

What he does, is he takes groups that BELIEVE that the psychic sensitivity is real, and has them do the experiment.

And then, at the same time, he takes groups of scientists who believe psychic sensitivity is a bunch of hooey and crap....and has them repeat the same experiments.


What happens, is that what the two differently oriented and minded groups BELIEVE and PROJECT, ends up being the actual reality that they find.

There is a war going on...right now....for you, your energies..and your mind.

Do you see it now?

It cannot be emphasized how important this little post is.

That for some of you, it is the most important thing you'll have read for an entire year. A powerful understanding of how reality actually works, in a component or aspect that has been the source of the problem, for as long as you've been alive.

donk
17th January 2013, 18:37
Thanks for clarifying...not to be an a-hole though...I am sure you are fairly safe to assume that he did it all for the nookie, buuuut can you imagine he possibly did it to "test his truth" so to speak?

I ask, because it is not outside of the realm of imagination that someone (I'm thinking Joe Rogan) may do something like that to spread a little light...

greybeard
17th January 2013, 18:42
I cant take any of that seriously.
If thats a Ki Gong master im a whatever.
His posture/stance was all wrong and he was very nervous before the start--- twitching fingers restless hands.

It is possible to pull people off their feet with Chi energy but not everyone.
Thats my personal experience working on clients with bio-energy.
Some would be pulled towards me as I extracted stuck energy from their chakras ---most would not---thats at a distance of about 6 foot.
There was no belief involved, they did not expect it to happen.

Chris

humanalien
17th January 2013, 18:43
I think the master began believing in his own lie
about beating people up, without touching them.

You just seen the end result of that lie.

I think the master should go back to being the pupil....

Carmody
17th January 2013, 18:43
Thanks for clarifying...not to be an a-hole though...I am sure you are fairly safe to assume that he did it all for the nookie, buuuut can you imagine he possibly did it to "test his truth" so to speak?

I ask, because it is not outside of the realm of imagination that someone (I'm thinking Joe Rogan) may do something like that to spread a little light...

See my above post, Donk. Clarity will begin to emerge. :)

When it comes to looking out from a set of eyeballs, a body, and a brain..always remember..the map is not the territory.

And the entire presentation of the very complex aspect of you, as seen and lived from within you....is just a map, it is NOT the territory.

What happens is that any force of you against any force of another is either perfectly capable of affecting you or perfectly capable of not affecting you. BOTH ARE TRUE AND REAL.

I think you folks might being to see what is going on here.

That realization and self development, in this 3d linear time/space place, is directly tied to the expression of reality. That one's connection to reality, and developed understanding of the basics of the system...is a direct aspect of motive force and reach.

donk
17th January 2013, 18:49
See my above post, Donk. Clarity will begin to emerge.

Nice...we posted at the same time.

So if I am to understand correctly, this is kind of a "double slit" experiment?


....correction: your POST, not the actual video, illustrates how this can be used in a sort of "as-above-so below double-slit" experiment?

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 18:50
What happens, is that what the two differently oriented and minded groups BELIEVE and PROJECT, ends up being the actual reality that they find.



Hey Carmody,

There can´t be accuracy when there is extreme bias, so, for me, both experiments are inconclusive.

What if they mix up the two groups and make the experiments together? What would be the results?

What if they pick another group of scientists from a completely different branch that couldn´t care less about psychic experiments to do the experiments? What would be the results?

Things aren´t always black and white. There are infinite possibilities between 0 and 1.

Any real and serious scientist knows that biased experiments lead to biased conclusions.

Raf.

kersley
17th January 2013, 18:51
Sure I agree, But why would the Master offer himself to be beaten up if he didn't believe in his ability?
If would have been another thing if the MMa Fighter had put up the money. It's like me asking Mike Tyson for a 12 round bout and stupid me put up the money..
I rather NOT..

ghostrider
17th January 2013, 18:56
I've had a blue belt in jujitsu for 30 years, anyone can get the upper hand on anyone , trained or not, even with a finger under the nose of your attacker you can take him anywhere you want and he will follow like a puppy ...where ever you move the head, the body must follow ...thus one is off balance and easily put down on the ground ...notice the so called master ends up on the ground ... a good MMA fighter will jack you up in just a few seconds ... fight over ...

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 18:59
Sure I agree, But why would the Master offer himself to be beaten up if he didn't believe in his ability?
If would have been another thing if the MMa Fighter had put up the money. It's like me asking Mike Tyson for a 12 round bout and stupid me put up the money..
I rather NOT..

Well, I also suspect that he really did believe he had powers, thus the expression of surprise when the received the first punch.

Anyway, beliefs are beliefs. Believing something doesn´t mean it will ever become real. This video is a nice example of it.

The master probably wasn´t beaten up like that for decades, so he was lead to believe his powers were really effective. As far as he was concerned, he had empirical evidence that his powers did work. Did it prevent him from getting punched in face? No.

Raf.

westhill
17th January 2013, 19:01
I think the master began believing in his own lie
about beating people up, without touching them.

You just seen the end result of that lie.

I think the master should go back to being the pupil....

You beat me to it! Exactly what I was thinking.
I would also say that Qi Gong should be about confronting your inner opponents.
They'll be tough enough.

kersley
17th January 2013, 19:05
Good point Raf..
Could it be that the so called power were sucked out from the Master with that hand shake at the beginning? is there a follow up of what happen after that fight?
What excuse did the Master give for losing?

Akasha
17th January 2013, 19:10
I'm so glad we got to see the master in action against his pupils first. Those 10 metre remote knuckle dusters were quite the moves!!!

I'm gonna keep out of the metaphysical ramifications though and just say bad day for Qigong, epic day for comedy.


Thanks for sharing, Raf. Absolutely priceless!

nurgle
17th January 2013, 19:25
I remember watching this video years ago and thinking to myself, a real Ki Gong Master Would never engage in actual fist fight to promote himself or the art, IMO. The real Ki Gong masters I have every heard of usually demostrate their practice by using the healing arts.

-be safe and try not to get punched in the face :)

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 19:26
Here´s another video with some more of his cool moves.

(Jump the first 20 seconds. The ending is the coolest part, lol)

tib2Urowsdc

Raf.

Akasha
17th January 2013, 19:40
That last one would be just the move when you've got eight muggers holding hands in queue waiting to have a pop.

778 neighbour of some guy
17th January 2013, 19:46
That was funny, the old man forgot the K.I.S.S rule, clearly the MMA guy was the better grounded one, he stood on his own, not relying on the support of anyone but himself and the energy he called upon before entering the contest, mental, physical and emotional, he was not impressed at all by the show the old man put up to show of his skills, he walked straight through him and was a respectfull sportsman afterwards to go check up on the old man when he was down.

All that bs about fighting for money, i go to the gym once in a while to playfight muay thai with some other guys, i am not violent and not in it for money, its costing me money, the MMA fighter in the clip probably just noticed as the years passed by his skills improved and he still enjoyed it and even became good enough to compete, and took up the challenge just for fun, and so did the master, and suddenly he was laying faced down, it happens, no biggie, just a busted nose and ego and probably some students who are disapointed in the so called superior style and chi powers of their sensei, would not surprise me one bit if they start practicing MMA now ( and thats not a straight forward style at all, it moves forward but there is a lot of techniques involved)thats all i noticed, i suddenly realised tptb have nothing to fear from B. Fulfords ninjas, ghehehehe, we are screwed.

HUGS everybody!!!!!;)

Carmody
17th January 2013, 19:54
What happens, is that what the two differently oriented and minded groups BELIEVE and PROJECT, ends up being the actual reality that they find.



Hey Carmody,

There can´t be accuracy when there is extreme bias, so, for me, both experiments are inconclusive.

What if they mix up the two groups and make the experiments together? What would be the results?

What if they pick another group of scientists from a completely different branch that couldn´t care less about psychic experiments to do the experiments? What would be the results?

Things aren´t always black and white. There are infinite possibilities between 0 and 1.

Any real and serious scientist knows that biased experiments lead to biased conclusions.

Raf.

They tried that, where the expectation bias was neutral, IIRC.

That the results where also as neutral. That the results where also as ambiguous as the expectations.

As humans, no matter what we do..we will always have some aspect of expectation within us. neutrality itself is also a form of expectation.


That you cannot be separated from the experiment, no matter what you try and do.

The only real neutrality is a completely blank mind or energy expression coming from a completely blank previously unused or un-expresed state. Which is a 'thing' that may not exist, in any realm, we don't know.

That any form of any bit of any existence is a form of shaping. A problem, right there-- conceptualization itself is a problem.

Critically... in this case in point, in formation of logic, it can be seen to be the answer as well.

Most people, about 99.99% of people out there, don't want to get the point I'm making, as it puts responsibility, power and truth all in one spot...and puts in inside of the self in a way that is unavoidably difficult for emotions and expectations in reality to handle.

That there is NO anchor of ANY kind, period. Nothing to cling to. NOTHING.

That ~ALL~ is tied to the concept of being, in action, in the situation, as a system in action or flow.

modwiz
17th January 2013, 20:05
Master and pupils=Matrix. MMA fighter=Neo.

Anybody tired of keeping the Matrix intact yet?

Carmody
17th January 2013, 20:06
To reiterate, in a way that will illustrate this state of existence and the inherent problems.... that the energetic condition of the given self and the energetic condition of the rest of the world, will intrude and integrate with the information I've given you.....and that the vast majority of you will have forgotten the truth of it.........by the end of your day.

donk
17th January 2013, 20:20
To reiterate, in a way that will illustrate this state of existence and the inherent problems.... that the energetic condition of the given self and the energetic condition of the rest of the world, will intrude and integrate with the information I've given you

Can you reiterate this, please?

Spiral
17th January 2013, 20:29
What happens, is that what the two differently oriented and minded groups BELIEVE and PROJECT, ends up being the actual reality that they find.



Hey Carmody,

There can´t be accuracy when there is extreme bias, so, for me, both experiments are inconclusive.

What if they mix up the two groups and make the experiments together? What would be the results?

What if they pick another group of scientists from a completely different branch that couldn´t care less about psychic experiments to do the experiments? What would be the results?

Things aren´t always black and white. There are infinite possibilities between 0 and 1.

Any real and serious scientist knows that biased experiments lead to biased conclusions.

Raf.

They tried that, where the expectation bias was neutral, IIRC.

That the results where also as neutral. That the results where also as ambiguous as the expectations.

As humans, no matter what we do..we will always have some aspect of expectation within us. neutrality itself is also a form of expectation.


That you cannot be separated from the experiment, no matter what you try and do.

The only real neutrality is a completely blank mind or energy expression coming from a completely blank previously unused or un-expresed state. Which is a 'thing' that may not exist, in any realm, we don't know.

That any form of any bit of any existence is a form of shaping. A problem, right there-- conceptualization itself is a problem.

Critically... in this case in point, in formation of logic, it can be seen to be the answer as well.

Most people, about 99.99% of people out there, don't want to get the point I'm making, as it puts responsibility, power and truth all in one spot...and puts in inside of the self in a way that is unavoidably difficult for emotions and expectations in reality to handle.

That there is NO anchor of ANY kind, period. Nothing to cling to. NOTHING.

That ~ALL~ is tied to the concept of being, in action, in the situation, as a system in action or flow.


Whats so ironic about these experiments is that the scientists that say there is no such thing as "psychic" are actually psychically effecting the tests, and psychically block psychics !

Carmody
17th January 2013, 20:32
To reiterate, in a way that will illustrate this state of existence and the inherent problems.... that the energetic condition of the given self and the energetic condition of the rest of the world, will intrude and integrate with the information I've given you

Can you reiterate this, please?

That the energies of other people, or expressive points of organized energies that are interconnected with the 'you' of organized energies.... and the total matrix of energies...that..unless concentration is built..and maintained..so it can become a 'reality'..that if this is not pursued..that your own design and the design of others, as a set of 'vibrations in the reality matrix'..will revert your state of existence to one that does not contain the information I've given to you.

That you will not retain the explanation and what can be done with it.

That 'these are not the droids you are looking for', as a pressure put upon you by your own current mindset, and the combined pressures of the reality around you.


That for quantum structures to form what we know as 'Newtonian matter', requires a certain MINIMUM of identical vibrations to be gathered into one spot and connected.

THEN metals form, elements form.

Before that, they do not exist as metals, and can enter the realm of spooky action at a distance, and are outside of normal time and space*. That they can be changed easily and can be affected easily, that they integrate with all, until they vibrate together and create a localized clique we call an element, or matter.

As above, so below.

*This is the very why of the making and consumption of the nano or quantum state elements of gold and the other precious metals, in the form of being 'the philosopher's stone'. to make that 'crossover' state as a material ,and consume it, to enable the person/being (w/avatar as a viewpoint) consuming it..to enter the realm of being able to pass 'information' or life itself, across dimensional spaces and any time/space.

Welcome to the next level.

Spiral
17th January 2013, 20:40
.unless concentration is built..and maintained..so it can become a 'reality'.

I'm off to pink bubble that.

778 neighbour of some guy
17th January 2013, 20:41
Colonel Ryabko... Systema lesson

The power of leverage/body mechanics/balance and aplying/disturbing energy..... funny and very interesting and effective.

mYI7sk9Phsc

tEZAVujeLN0

iKJWN99iJEk

nSa5Cliq_0M

w-KEogjWrSY

_EdxbpZaNhA

mcat911
17th January 2013, 21:18
The MMA fighter did just enough to prove/make a point. He did not initiate the challenge, he merely accepted it. He wasn't gratuitous in the level of force chosen.

I think he was honourable in the fight, it wasn't about money, it was about exposing a suspect practice being sold to people that are easily impressed and gullible, just like, dare I say, a good proportion of the population of earth.

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 21:21
No no no. I want to see a match between the MMA dude and David Wilcocks.

My one last matrixy wish.

Wagers?

Oh wait that would help bring the Matrix down...

damn.

Actually I'd like to see a title match between a girl scout and a David Wilcox.

Odds on the girl scouts..

wagers anyone?


Master and pupils=Matrix. MMA fighter=Neo.

Anybody tired of keeping the Matrix intact yet?

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 21:39
Hey folks,

I guess my main point for making this thread, was to investigate the relationship between leaders and followers.

Independently of how delusional the leader might be, all he needs is to convince a few persons of his powers; Each one of this few individuals will convince others. This goes on and on and, suddenly, the guy is leading hundreds or even thousands of people, without ever proving he deserves a position of leadership.

How many famous prophets we have nowadays whose prophecies never got fulfilled?

How many bands we have nowadays composed by people who can´t even sing or play any instruments properly?

How many movie actors we have nowadays that can barely act properly?

How many opinion makers we have nowadays that never actually formed any genuine opinion?

How many politicians we have nowadays that never actually did proper politics?

We have even a Peace Nobel Prize winner, who never did anything to promote peace!

So, how many allegedly genuine public persons we have nowadays who never did anything genuine, but are still considered by the vast majority as the very materialization of genuineness?

I´ve heard someone saying a few days ago, that people are conditioned to be duped, and I really believe this to be an accurate statement.

We have all kinds of fakers, and people love them, and people protect them as they were their on sons and daughters.

Something is really wrong, that´s for sure.

Looks like Orwell was right; We´re subverting the meaning of things.

Genuineness is now Falsehood. The faker you are, the more you´re worshiped.

Success is now Failure. The more psychotically selfish you are, the more you´re considered successful.

Freedom is now slavery. The more you work like a dog, the more free you are, because certainly you need money to buy freedom, and to have enough money, you have to sell your soul.

Who is to blame? The leader or the followers?

The mastermind behind the matrix, or the people who do anything they can to preserve the matrix?

I curse the past generations for allowing this to happen in the first place, and I curse the current generations for not refusing to participate in this FRAUD!

Who´s in charge of this crap? I demand to talk to the manager! NOW! I want so badly to beat him up just like that MMA fighter did!

I do whatever I can as an individual to avoiding participating in this crap, but it´s impossible, unless I move to the woods and completely off-the-grid.

Will this go on forever? What we, who consider ourselves to be "awake" are supposed to do to change things? Wishful thinking? Typing things on the internet? Protesting? People are doing all these things and it´s clearly not working!

Honestly, I´ve been participating in this amazing forum intensively for a long time, full of great minds, and all I could conclude is that we´re completely clueless.

Recognizing the problem is surelly a good enough first step, ok...But what is it worth to be "awake" if we´re clueless about how to act, after all, being awake by itself means nothing.

christian
17th January 2013, 21:46
Building up this chi energy in the body comes through physical exercises and focused intention or will-power. Moving other people through that is entirely possible, I've done that before, one time right after a fight actually, when energies were still flowing like crazy but there was no one to project them on anymore, the fight was over, my opponent had left after he realized that he could punch me but not unsettle or harm me. What a way that was to engage in a fight, I hadn't planned that. I always thought if I would really get into a fight I would at least severly injure someone, so I do my best to stay away from fights, I don't wanna hurt or kill anyone. Anyways, right afterwards I felt like an electrical substation taking in way too much voltage and when it "short-circuited" the people around me all jerked simultaneously. Note that the guys around me were anything but sober and it was very late at night, early morning.

The other occasion was, when I tried LSD, very impressive experience, will not repeat it though, because I feel pathetic ingesting something to trigger something I can trigger naturally as well. Anyways it enhanced many abilities, mainly intuition such as telepathy, aura-seeing, and others. I was first in the woods for hours and went into the city eventually, I then sat on a train with a woman in front of me and just looking at her intensely made her jerk all over, that happened very quickly, there was no long build-up for that from my side. She was looking at me very bewildered like, "what the heck did you just do?" Note that this woman seemed to be daydreaming and not like she was either physically very much trained, nor like she had a lot of experience in meditation, her aura didn't seem particularly strong, not hefty at all.

So that is all entirely possible, however you can protect yourself against that by having the physical capacity and the will-power and hence the necessary chi yourself. You've got to be "grounded." A MMA-fighter definitely has an increased chi-flow due to his intense training and fight-routine, he might well be stronger in a sense than the Qi Gong "master". I find that the students of the Qi Gong guy really do seem kind of hypnotized, and so they are easy victims. They don't seem intensily trained or concentrated, but rather like they invite their own defeat. They seem hungry to let themselves be played with.

To apply the non-touching chi-directing skill to a very skilled fighter, whatever discipline, or even "just" to someone who has a serious meditation practice is very very hard, I reckon, because we humans have similar capabilities. So when two very capable humans stand in front of each other it's simply anything but likely that one will twist the other like a dummy just through his will-power.

Now Here is a video of an Aikido fighter. Aikido is quite similar to the way you handle the other's energy in this Qi Gong practice. In Aikido there are virtually no offensive moves and all you do is redirecting the other's flow to bring him down, it's a very soft skill. But because there is always body-contact, it may be somewhat more grounded and applicable than when you only deal with the other's energies. This video shows how "brute power" can really be overcome by "soft" means.

QWpVUMCcSys

Fred Steeves
17th January 2013, 21:52
This goes on and on and, suddenly, the guy is leading hundreds or even thousands of people, without ever proving hie deserves a position of leadership.


Hi Raf, that's why one of my all time favorite Bob Dylan quotes is "Don't follow leaders, and watch the parking meters".

LxLiNR0hvUA

Spiral
17th January 2013, 22:01
But what is it worth to be "awake" if we´re clueless about how to act, after all, being awake by itself means nothing.

That is not true !

We all effect each other,(Look up Rupert Sheldrake ) and by struggling to gain sovereignty over our selves we ARE helping others, the power wielded by TBTB is only theirs by the duplicitous willful ignorance & sloth of the general population.

Whiskey_Mystic
17th January 2013, 22:02
I've been a Chi Gung student for 9 years now in the Water Dragon lineage of Liu Hung-Chieh. I've never heard of any actual Master attempting to show off in this way. Heads of franchise school chains, yes. This person's techniques are not familiar to me at all.

Chi Gung is not so much a martial art as it is a systematic technique for developing ability to work with chi for greater health. This has shown to be an effective treatment for many ailments. It is so effective that after the Maoist revolution, the government of China was very short on doctors and so required people to visit a Chi Gung instructor before seeing a doctor.

I myself have seen miraculous results in myself in others. It is very effective for the treatment of PTSD as well. Several members of my community served in the Special Forces in Cambodia during the Vietnam war. Having cleared themselves, they now move with the carefree grace of children.

Chi Gung itself is almost useless in street-fighting because the practitioner has to spend time building up chi before being effective. Most student who are serious about martial applications turn to Ba Gua, a related discipline. There is a great difference between internal and external martial arts. External martial arts rely on muscle and nerve training. Internal martial arts rely on energy mastery. Internal martial arts are much more powerful as the practitioner affects the world on the level of information. Because the physical world is built upon the information level (you might use the word quantum here), the internal martial arts practitioner can achieve feats that are well beyond the realm of the physical martial artist.

But you cannot get there simply by training in technique as you can with something like karate or tai quan do. In order to master and work with chi, you must develop yourself physically, spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically. You must grow as a being and remove the blockages within you. This is why I have never seen a Master engage in "challenges". They don't feel they have anything to prove to anyone. In fact, one well-known Master that I know of spent his youth as an underground cage fighter in New York before realizing how stupid that was and beginning the spiritual journey that eventually led him to his true Master in China. An MMA fight would be seen as something for children to engage in. Not serious students.

Maunagarjana
17th January 2013, 22:04
Has anyone considered that the MMA fighter knows techniques to block the Chi techniques the master is using? Fighting Chi with Chi, I mean. Or, more accurately, shielding Chi from Chi.

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 22:04
But what is it worth to be "awake" if we´re clueless about how to act, after all, being awake by itself means nothing.

That is not true !

We all effect each other,(Look up Rupert Sheldrake ) and by struggling to gain sovereignty over our selves we ARE helping others, the power wielded by TBTB is only theirs by the duplicitous willful ignorance & sloth of the general population.

Well, my friend, I really don´t believe it.

While we´re all here, passively "affecting each other", our opponent is actively acting and attacking from every corner.

This is pretty much a war, and wars are not won by passively affecting each other. They´re won with actions.

Honestly, I think there´s no way for us to win this battle by doing nothing.

We aren´t even defending ourselves or trying to evade attacks. We´re just doing nothing and, actually, our lifestyles are helping to build this matrix.

A war against the matrix is a war against every aspect of modern society, against the comforts of our lifestyle.

Raf.

greybeard
17th January 2013, 22:05
Well Christian that's a Master thank you
Chris

Whiskey_Mystic
17th January 2013, 22:07
I remember watching this video years ago and thinking to myself, a real Ki Gong Master Would never engage in actual fist fight to promote himself or the art, IMO. The real Ki Gong masters I have every heard of usually demostrate their practice by using the healing arts.

-be safe and try not to get punched in the face :)

Not only that, but they will not even demonstrate the full range of their capabilities to their own students until they achieve the level of maturity to handle it. I have been sent out of the room with the junior students more than once because the Master was going to give an advanced instruction that, if exposed to us too early, would create a growth barrier that we would ever get past. Years later when we were ready for the instruction, we received it and incorporated it without succumbing to "spiritual materialism".

andrewgreen
17th January 2013, 22:12
Their is so much knowledge out their in the mysterious world of martial arts that I don't think following somebody is such a bad idea. I have a friend who did a hard version of kunf fu for 15 years. He by chance met a Qi Gong expert who agreed to train him, this Qi Gong expert under his lineage was only allowed to train three people throughout his life. The knowledge he learned from this guy was incredible. According to him it takes 7 years to begin to develop Qi.

No way of this guy was genuine would the MMA fight have been able to hit him so easily.

Spiral
17th January 2013, 22:13
But what is it worth to be "awake" if we´re clueless about how to act, after all, being awake by itself means nothing.

That is not true !

We all effect each other,(Look up Rupert Sheldrake ) and by struggling to gain sovereignty over our selves we ARE helping others, the power wielded by TBTB is only theirs by the duplicitous willful ignorance & sloth of the general population.

Well, my friend, I really don´t believe it.

While we´re all here, passively "affecting each other", our opponent is acting and attacking from every corner.

This is pretty much a war, and wars are not won by passively affecting each other. They´re won with actions.

Honestly, I think there´s no way for us to win this battle by doing nothing.

Raf.

Doing follows idea, and idea follows belief.

Have you seen how many hits the threads on here get ?

Physical battle is the paradigm that Hollywood sells......there is a reason that people like Gandhi did what they did without an army, and there's a reason why the TV stations are all under the control of a few, when you can get a critical mass to see or believe something, it becomes real.

greybeard
17th January 2013, 22:16
But what is it worth to be "awake" if we´re clueless about how to act, after all, being awake by itself means nothing.

That is not true !

We all effect each other,(Look up Rupert Sheldrake ) and by struggling to gain sovereignty over our selves we ARE helping others, the power wielded by TBTB is only theirs by the duplicitous willful ignorance & sloth of the general population.

Well, my friend, I really don´t believe it.

While we´re all here, passively "affecting each other", our opponent is acting and attacking from every corner.

This is pretty much a war, and wars are not won by passively affecting each other. They´re won with actions.

Honestly, I think there´s no way for us to win this battle by doing nothing.

Raf.

With respect Raf if you read Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins you would find proof that energetically we affect the collective consciousness. Or check out the scientific evidence presented by Heart Maths and used here http://www.glcoherence.org/
The evidence is clear--test and tried scientifically.
Regards Chris

donk
17th January 2013, 22:16
RAF - I hear you, and I believe that as a species, we are easily manipulated. I tend to think that depending on circumstances, we have a different level of responsibility. I think that by being p!ssed off at "generations" and entire manipulated populations in general, aren't you are falling into the same trap?

Individuals made individual decisions that effect each individual that exists in a slightly different way, and each of those individuals has their own experience that effected their decisions right here & now--and how manipulated, or "their own" decision that they are varies as well.

At least, that's the way I view the macro of sociology--it is twisted by generalities, removing individual responsibility.

Back to carmody and the "micro" (for lack of better term) which I think is slightly on topic (maybe), I posit:


Welcome to the next level.

...says the man that assures me that I will not even be able to incorporate the knowledge he shared which is required to "get me there", which I did not fully comprehend anyway.

How did you transcend the limits of said 'given self', and learn to incorporate the "information you gave me"?

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 22:21
Doing follows idea, and idea follows belief.

Have you seen how many hits the threads on here get ?

Physical battle is the paradigm that Hollywood sells......there is a reason that people like Gandhi did what they did without an army, and there's a reason why the TV stations are all under the control of a few, when you can get a critical mass to see or believe something, it becomes real.

I understand your point of view and I certainly don´t discard it, my friend.

However, our odds aren´t looking pretty good right now.

I´m not saying that we should go and physically confront the government and its many arms.

All I´m saying is that we need to find a solution, and I assure you that the solution isn´t doing nothing.

You know, when I said that being awake means nothing, I was mostly trying to say that, what is it worth to be awake by itself?

Being awake is just meaningful if you get out of the bed and do things!

Ok, Gandhi was a great mean. But is India looking good right now? No, things are ugly up there. Ultimately, he helped to remove the corrupt British, who were quickly replaced by corrupt Indians. Is there any practical difference?



With respect Raf if you read Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins you would find proof that energetically we affect the collective consciousness. Or check out the scientific evidence presented by Heart Maths and used here http://www.glcoherence.org/
The evidence is clear--test and tried scientifically.
Regards Chris

Hey Chris,

Well, I don´t doubt that it works, but will this be enough to change the world?

Would you really place your bets, all-in, in this possibility?



How did you transcend the limits of said 'given self', and learn to incorporate the "information you gave me"?

Hey donk,

I know exactly what I need to do to incorporate this information and, as you guys like to say, walk the talk.

However, the only possible option, in my opinion, is to move off-the-grid, completely.

Complete boycott. Complete refusal to participate in this fraud.

By living in this society, each and every of our ordinary daily actions reverts in profit for the controllers.

Cheers,

Raf.

Whiskey_Mystic
17th January 2013, 22:25
With respect Raf if you read Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins you would find proof that energetically we affect the collective consciousness. Or check out the scientific evidence presented by Heart Maths and used here http://www.glcoherence.org/
The evidence is clear--test and tried scientifically.
Regards Chris

And let me toss Lynne McTaggart into there as well.

donk
17th January 2013, 22:26
Being awake is just meaningful if you get out the bed and do things.

I like that.

In an earlier post you talked about "losing the war by doing nothing"...that is definitely the biggest problem, that so many of us (individuals) not only do recognize the war is on, but unwittingly strengthen the slave-masters...the best slaves are the one that don't recognize they are slaves, after all.

Too few of us are brave enough to get out of bed, even when there are alarms blaring in our faces that we should probably get the eff up.

giovonni
17th January 2013, 22:33
video descriptive:


Uploaded on Jan 3, 2007

a Kiai Master offers a 5000 dollar challenge that he can beat any MMA fighter. Too bad for him because his techniques doesn't affect the MMA fighter



i think this is where he made his mistake...

he (the Ki Gong man) compromised his spiritual power and the MMA fighter didn't buy it !

13th Warrior
17th January 2013, 22:37
It simple accounting.

Don't write checks with your mouth that you cant' cash with your ass!

greybeard
17th January 2013, 22:39
Doing follows idea, and idea follows belief.

Have you seen how many hits the threads on here get ?

Physical battle is the paradigm that Hollywood sells......there is a reason that people like Gandhi did what they did without an army, and there's a reason why the TV stations are all under the control of a few, when you can get a critical mass to see or believe something, it becomes real.

I understand your point of view and I certainly don´t discard it, my friend.

However, our odds aren´t looking pretty good right now.

I´m not saying that we should go and physically confront the government and its many arms.

All I´m saying is that we need to find a solution, and I assure you that the solution isn´t doing nothing.

You know, when I said the being awake means nothing, I was mostly trying to say that, what is it worth to be awake by itself?

Being awake is just meaningful if you get out of the bed and do things.

Ok, Gandhi was a great mean. But is India looking good right now? No, things are ugly up there. Ultimately, he helped to remove the corrupt British, who were quickly replaced by corrupt Indians. Is there any practical difference?



With respect Raf if you read Power vs Force by the late Dr David Hawkins you would find proof that energetically we affect the collective consciousness. Or check out the scientific evidence presented by Heart Maths and used here http://www.glcoherence.org/
The evidence is clear--test and tried scientifically.
Regards Chris

Hey Chris,

Well, I don´t doubt that it works, but will this be enough to change the word?

Would you really place your bet, all-in, in this possibility?



How did you transcend the limits of said 'given self', and learn to incorporate the "information you gave me"?

I know exactly what I need to incorporate this information and, as you guys like to say, walk the talk.

However, the only possible option is to move off-the-grid, completely.

By living in this society, each and every of our ordinary daily actions reverts in profit for the controllers.

Cheers,

Raf.

Yes it is enough to get the job done---and its not sitting about doing nothing please read the information on the link.

If you keep doing the same thing you get the same result---- war--is war-even if its war on war--its the same energy.
People have been fighting for freedom since for ever
Ask yourself honestly where is the evidence that violence ever worked?
Rebellion leads to a change of master time and time again---
Watch the video Christian put up--the little guy won using the energy of going with the flow of the other energy--he did not resist.
There in lies the power.
There is evidence in what Gandhi achieved by non violent means and Nelson Mandela the same. Yes India is still violent because not enough people carried on the non violence principals of Gandhi

I am sure there are many other examples.
Sorry for deveating from the main thust of the thread but it is all energy---used wisely---Power vs force shows how.

Regard Chris

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 22:44
Being awake is just meaningful if you get out of the bed and do things.

I like that.

In an earlier post you talked about "losing the war by doing nothing"...that is definitely the biggest problem, that so many of us (individuals) not only do recognize the war is on, but unwittingly strengthen the slave-masters...the best slaves are the one that don't recognize they are slaves, after all.

Too few of us are brave enough to get out of bed, even when there are alarms blaring in our faces that we should probably get the eff up.

Exactly, my friend.

I see this whole thing of being "awake" as a condition, a sort of a gift.

Being awake and doing nothing, in my opinion, is just like being the most talented painter in the world and never painting a single canvas. It´s meaningless, not to say tragic.

There´s a fire going on in the house, the fire alarm is ringing, you can smell the smoke, but, somehow, refuse to get out of the bed and do anything about it; Maybe you´re just scared, maybe you don´t believe the fire to be real, or maybe you´re just waiting for someone to come and save you...So, eventually the fire is in your bedroom and there´s nothing more to do about it besides praying to have a painless death. What´s the difference between being awake or sleeping in this situation?

Raf.

donk
17th January 2013, 22:45
even if its war on war--its the same energy.
People have been fighting for freedom since for ever
As yourself honestly where is the evidence that violence eve worked?


Love that!! You are right, but you still need to be aware that there is a war, don't you think? I thought Raf was suggesting doing nothing fuels the forces that has declared war on humanity reaching its full potential. "they" already succeeded somewhere down the line, the war is now to keep us enslaved.

Also, I do not think that Raf suggested that, also I missed where he brought the suggestion of violence...."doing something" does not imply violence, does it?

I believe the solution has something to do with NO ONE participating anymore....tall order to come up with how to accomplish that, though.

nurgle
17th January 2013, 23:00
However, the only possible option is to move off-the-grid, completely.

I agree with moving off the grid. The problem I see with an individual getting fed up with the world and moving off the grid, is just it, it is one person leaving and not helping other people to also leave with them. I don't have and means or knowledge how to be totally of the grid, but I wish the people that do would get together and make a real community off the grid, then expand, bringing more people into the fold, helping each other and making the transition easy for others. I find that if something is a big change, complicated, or unexplained generally people are not going to accept it. I guess what I am trying to get at is, we need leaders, we need workers, we need thinkers, etc.... We just have actively to work together with the "awake" and the "asleep" and not passively wink and nod to each other that we are in the know and everyone else ignorant to the fact. Hope I made sense.

-be safe

Flash
17th January 2013, 23:01
from RMorgan (raf):
This is pretty much a war, and wars are not won by passively affecting each other. They´re won with actions.

You are definitely not a woman. Women are expert at passively affecting each other, or others. And they do win their war. Often the opponent has not even realised he just lost. That much refinement.

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 23:01
Sincerely, there are many great meta disciplines of the mind and body.

You let idiots corrupt them and they discredit the integrity of the great, and we are just left with weak tools and weak vessels.

We let anyone discredit and pervert and corrupt anything that has a intrinsic value of survival to it we are just destroying ourselves.

For people who know those of you who don't know but pretend to know just look stupid to those who do know.

If that were just a matter of looking stupid that would be one thing, but truly it is stupid and selfish to the core to destroy something that your future survival may depend on.

greybeard
17th January 2013, 23:01
even if its war on war--its the same energy.
People have been fighting for freedom since for ever
As yourself honestly where is the evidence that violence eve worked?



Love that!! You are right, but you still need to be aware that there is a war, don't you think? I thought Raf was suggesting doing nothing fuels the forces that has declared war on humanity reaching its full potential. "they" already succeeded somewhere down the line, the war is now to keep us enslaved.

Also, I do not think that Raf suggested that, also I missed where he brought the suggestion of violence...."doing something" does not imply violence, does it?

I believe the solution has something to do with NO ONE participating anymore....tall order to come up with how to accomplish that, though.

Hi Donk
When I said violence I was just speaking in general.

The thing is that over a certain level of consciousness mistreating others in any way is not possible, cooperation for the common good is the norm.
Now if we can accept that the collective consciousness includes everyone that also includes those who do currently misuse try to control the population for their own selfish aims----- then by raising our personal consciousness we also raise the consciousness of all it is only a matter of time till those "criminals" literally have a change of heart and start to act for the common good.
That may sound far fetched but that's a scientifically proved possibility.

http://www.glcoherence.org/

The Global Coherence Initiative is a science-based, co-creative project to unite people in heart-focused care and intention, to facilitate the shift in global consciousness from instability and discord to balance, cooperation and enduring peace.

Chris

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 23:02
even if its war on war--its the same energy.
People have been fighting for freedom since for ever
As yourself honestly where is the evidence that violence eve worked?


Love that!! You are right, but you still need to be aware that there is a war, don't you think? I thought Raf was suggesting doing nothing fuels the forces that has declared war on humanity reaching its full potential. "they" already succeeded somewhere down the line, the war is now to keep us enslaved.

Also, I do not think that Raf suggested that, also I missed where he brought the suggestion of violence...."doing something" does not imply violence, does it?

I believe the solution has something to do with NO ONE participating anymore....tall order to come up with how to accomplish that, though.

You´re right, Donk.

I´m against the use of violence, except for ultimate self-defense.

As far as I can think about it, I think the only option is FULL BOYCOTT. Stop supporting the controllers completely, no excuses.

There used to be completely self-sufficient communities, that didn´t depend on almost anything from the "outside world" to live a happy live. Each individual just did his part and that´s all.

In fact, such communities still exist is remove locations, even here in Brazil. Let alone the Native-Brazilians; Some isolated tribes live their happy lives here without ever even seen a white man.

The fact is that, we don´t need the modern comforts to be happy. We don´t need computers, we don´t need cellphones, we don´t need cars, we don´t even need electricity.

The costs of such conveniences are simply too big, and, by living on our current society, we´re constantly supporting our biggest enemy.

This is pretty much like a drug-dealer/junkie relationship...Sometimes the junkie hates the drug dealer, but since he loves the drug, he´s obliged to support the drug dealer, so he can get his fix. This is society.

We despise the controllers, the powers that be, but we keep supporting them because we´re addicted to the comforts and conveniences they offer. We´re all modern life junkies.

You know, nowadays I see no use for all this modern technologies besides turning people into slaves, and, I must confess that sometimes I wish a big solar flair happened and fried all this stuff, so at least we could have the opportunity to do a fresh restart; So we would give up our addictions a la cold turkey.

Raf.

RunningDeer
17th January 2013, 23:10
Tai Chi Principles in Daily Life

There’s a fighting game in Tai Chi called, “push hands”. It’s to learn how to read another’s energies and use it to your advantage. The goal is to break their footing (root to Mother Earth) and move them. Contact must be maintained at all times, if there’s a disconnect - game’s over.

The goal is to match energies. When person A and person B are equally balanced in force, they become one. Stay empty. One subtle movement from the one that is egoless can them move the other. The power beyond just the physical force is where’s it’s at.


Ego=force; Higher Self=Power

It takes very little energy, subtle energy is a better description of what it takes to drop another to the floor. Where the legs just go out from under them and their down without any pain, I might add. Before one realizes what happened, they are picking themselves up off the floor. I’ve done it and it’s been done to me. You find their center and shift it. Bam!

What’s the point to this post? Awareness is the secret. By overcoming the fear and blinders, we awaken to that subtle yet powerful resource. We step into what is sovereign and available.Then it is easy to see “the why” and “the how” the PTW operate. They don’t have our resource. They are not self-sustaining. They are incomplete. So PTW strategy is to not to apply too much force, too soon. But when we tap into our root Power - game’s over.

It’s a whole new energy game. It’s doesn’t take decades to build energy from martial arts training or meditations. There’s an energy shift that is to our advantage. We are awake enough now to know, it’s about belief and trust of Yourself, Higher Self.

Awareness is the secret. Then we can get on with the business of co-creation; create other ways of seeing, inventions, solutions, assisting others across time, etc.

As a side note: These are some of my Teachers and personal experiences.

- Aikido - Peter Ralston, “"The Cheng Hsin School of Internal Martial Arts,” Lake Erie, PA (relocated in CA) Master Ralston was the first non-Asian ever to win the World Championship full-contact martial arts tournament held in the Republic of China.

- “Stuart Wilde’s Warrior Wisdom 5 day Intensive,” Stuart Wilde, Taos, NM, including Outward Bound and the Fire Walk

- Shaolin Chi Na (joint breaking) - Dr. Yang Jwing Ming, Boston, MA (and Tai Chi seminars with my Tai Chi Master)

Master Peter Ralston - I was invited to throw/flip/move him and before I was even aware of any touch, I was picking myself up off the mat. Three times. It was that fast and I didn’t feel his touch.

Master Yang Jwing Ming - Master Yang was demonstrating Chi Na (joint breaking) to us and I had trouble believing that he made a huge guy fall to his knees without effort. So he demonstrating on me. With only a couple of fingers, every time I tried to defend, he’d simply ratchet up the pain with very little effort.

Stuart Wilde taught us mind techniques such as to override or replace thoughts. There’s no mystery to it. We were drop in the market place to practice. It’s a combination of visualization and ‘chi energy’. It was an experiential exercise, but also understood the ethics and accountability for use of power over others. The point was demonstration of energy, not to control.

It’s easy to see how mind control is used on the masses. Building chi through right practice and life style increases internal spirit/light and awareness of Truth and balance of mind, body, spirit. Which overrides any illusionary dark ones.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 23:14
It’s easy to see how mind control is used on the masses. Building chi through right practice and life style increases internal spirit/light and awareness of Truth and balance of mind, body, spirit. Which overrides any illusionary dark ones.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer

It's not easy for those who have succumbed to it.

I'd have to disagree with your implication that energy disciplines exclude people from mind control. The video itself pretty much emphasizes that. I know a great many people who do all sorts of the Ki,'s and Chi's and they are as hopelessly lost as the rest of the sheep.

Conversely I know a great many who don't involve themselves in any sort of energetic discipline yet....they are least effected by mind control.

That sort of thing is not a cure its a companion to other disciplines.

Anchor
17th January 2013, 23:23
First, I'd like to say:


Having cleared themselves, they now move with the carefree grace of children.

is a beautiful image. Well played Sir, I really like this line.

Secondly,

I'd say that the reason the "Master" he got smacked is either a) he was not a master or b) because his ego was such that he even got in that ring.

Eitherway he got the lesson he needed.

Context: I am/(was) Martial arts trained and have seen and experienced weird kung fu mojo based happenings. Every single time I allowed ego to inform my actions in combat I got beaten/damaged.

Hip Hipnotist
17th January 2013, 23:28
Hypnosis my ass. ( Can I say 'ass' on this forum? )

He's lucky he isn't dead.

But what do I know about hypnosis? ;-))

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 23:30
You don't know anything compared to those people who 'think' they know hypnosis.


Hypnosis my ass. ( Can I say 'ass' on this forum? )

He's lucky he isn't dead.

But what do I know about hypnosis? ;-))

Wind
17th January 2013, 23:30
I must confess that sometimes I wish a big solar flair happened and fried all this stuff, so at least we could have the opportunity to do a fresh restart; So we would give up our addictions a la cold turkey style.



Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true. ;)

RunningDeer
17th January 2013, 23:31
It’s easy to see how mind control is used on the masses. Building chi through right practice and life style increases internal spirit/light and awareness of Truth and balance of mind, body, spirit. Which overrides any illusionary dark ones.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer

It's not easy for those who have succumbed to it.

I'd have to disagree with your implication that energy disciplines exclude people from mind control. The video itself pretty much emphasizes that. I know a great many people who do all sorts of the Ki,'s and Chi's and they are as hopelessly lost as the rest of the sheep.

Conversely I know a great many who don't involve themselves in any sort of energetic discipline yet....they are least effected by mind control.

That sort of thing is not a cure its a companion to other disciplines.

I'd have to disagree with your implication that energy disciplines exclude people from mind control.

My post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54472-Ki-Gong-master-gets-beaten-up-by-MMA-fighter.&p=618261&viewfull=1#post618261) was to demonstrate there is subtle energy if one choose to devote themselves to the discovery. I did not post to defend those that are lost sheep or least effected by mind control.

RMorgan
17th January 2013, 23:32
I must confess that sometimes I wish a big solar flair happened and fried all this stuff, so at least we could have the opportunity to do a fresh restart; So we would give up our addictions a la cold turkey style.



Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true. ;)

Whatever happens, I´m ready. :)

christian
17th January 2013, 23:38
Sincerely, there are many great meta disciplines of the mind and body.

You let idiots corrupt them and they discredit the integrity of the great, and we are just left with weak tools and weak vessels.

There is free will, not meaning that people are clear about why they do what they do, but that what they do is their own personal responsibility. There will always people who are out to corrupt things, whether deliberately or carelessly. Now you can offer support and advice, you can lead by example, but you cannot force people to be smart.

Admittedly, humanity could do more to cultivate meta disciplines genuinely, which would surely make a difference when it comes to preventing the corruption of those disciplines. That is our collective responsibility. The only way to somewhat prevent people from corrupting things is being impeccable. Who is without sin may throw the first stone.

But still, we are at no time just left with weak tools and vessels, what a grim picture. All the abundance of the universe is always there for those who can grasp it. The idiots you mentioned only discredit the value of true treasures in the eyes of other idiots. Because they actually don't discredit the discipline, but themselves.

D-Day
17th January 2013, 23:39
I knew someone would get their arse beat one day for spewing the fake, the fraudulent.

A lot of that going around these days.

A good thing me thinks. If your not the one who got yer arse beat that is.

Hmm, I'm thinking it was probably a good thing for the guy who got his aree beat too.

Some lessons have to be learnt the hard way, and in my experience they are usually the ones that end up "sticking".

Often the best thing that can happen to someone who has started believing their own BS, is for someone who sees their BS to come along and knock a little sense into them (err point it out to them ;))

You know, bring 'em down a notch or two... or in the case of this ki gong "master" about 10 notches. lol

The ki gong "master" in the OP video wasn't killed (just a little beat up), so no major harm done in the grand scheme of things.

But, I'm guessing this little lesson sure did force him take a goooood, hard look at himself.

Sure, his ego's probably a little bruised and battered (along with his face... sorry couldn't help myself there), but I'm thinking he just learnt a valuable life lesson.

And the lesson?... don't try to BS someone who has the knowledge/experience/capacity to see through your BS, cos they will likely end up making you look STUPID.

Arpheus
17th January 2013, 23:45
Oh man Raf we need that solar flare so bad man, you have no idea i been praying for that for 3 to 4 years now to no avail LOL!!And i am not joking

9eagle9
17th January 2013, 23:48
Building chi through right practice and life style increases internal spirit/light and awareness of Truth and balance of mind, body, spirit. Which overrides any illusionary dark ones.

You might want to revise this part then. It's somewhat misleading . I'm sure the dude in the video thought he was building chi and right life style practices as well. In the end they failed him.



It’s easy to see how mind control is used on the masses. Building chi through right practice and life style increases internal spirit/light and awareness of Truth and balance of mind, body, spirit. Which overrides any illusionary dark ones.

WhiteCrowBlackDeer

It's not easy for those who have succumbed to it.

I'd have to disagree with your implication that energy disciplines exclude people from mind control. The video itself pretty much emphasizes that. I know a great many people who do all sorts of the Ki,'s and Chi's and they are as hopelessly lost as the rest of the sheep.

Conversely I know a great many who don't involve themselves in any sort of energetic discipline yet....they are least effected by mind control.

That sort of thing is not a cure its a companion to other disciplines.

I'd have to disagree with your implication that energy disciplines exclude people from mind control.

My post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54472-Ki-Gong-master-gets-beaten-up-by-MMA-fighter.&p=618261&viewfull=1#post618261) was to demonstrate there is subtle energy if one choose to devote themselves to the discovery. I did not post to defend those that are lost sheep or least effected by mind control.

RunningDeer
17th January 2013, 23:53
No revision needed. It's my experience. I can't speak to the gentleman's experience.


You might want to revise this part then. It's somewhat misleading . I'm sure the dude in the video thought he was building chi and right life style practices as well. In the end they failed him.

Koyaanisqatsi
18th January 2013, 00:01
mma is THE superior martial art. the oldman is a master. he simply was using an inferior skillset, nothing more nothingless

DeDukshyn
18th January 2013, 00:14
I cant take any of that seriously.
If thats a Ki Gong master im a whatever.
His posture/stance was all wrong and he was very nervous before the start--- twitching fingers restless hands.

It is possible to pull people off their feet with Chi energy but not everyone.
Thats my personal experience working on clients with bio-energy.
Some would be pulled towards me as I extracted stuck energy from their chakras ---most would not---thats at a distance of about 6 foot.
There was no belief involved, they did not expect it to happen.

Chris

Thanks for that input, from someone with a little experience in this area. ;-)
I have seen some guys do some neat things with chi energy before.

There is one power that all humans use daily, and can weild at any time they choose. This power is important and has allowed us to survive throughout the worst of the "magicks" that have come and gone, or still here. That power is is the power of denial. It doesn't need belief to be wielded, but it can make short change of another's belief quite quickly when put into action.

DeDukshyn
18th January 2013, 00:22
mma is THE superior martial art. the oldman is a master. he simply was using an inferior skillset, nothing more nothingless

I found it odd that he appeared to have little advanced fighting skills to even fall back on, once his "special powers" were found ineffective. Isn't Ki Gong supposed to be a "martial" art?

aikisaw
18th January 2013, 00:43
The mistake the Qi Gong master made was practicing or training not to hurt people. I would guess he has good Ki or chi but did not want to hurt his students. He showed his students what was possible with his system on a few occasions, but did not train with a war like mind.

Martial Arts


mar·tial
[mahr-shuh l] Show IPA
adjective
1.
inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people.
2.
of, suitable for, or associated with war or the armed forces: martial music.
3.
characteristic of or befitting a warrior: a martial stride.
Origin:

What is the goal in war??.......Physical or Spiritual ??

The MMA guys mindset was to defeat his opponent. The Master had trained so long with a mind of not hurting his opponent that was how he fought when the time came. The attacks that his students made on him were not real. They were not not trying to really hit him. No intent on the part of the students.

I have been hit by over a thousand ki strikes and hit others with the same amount. When you first learn to strike with ki it is hard to control them. They feel like you just scratched your nose and your opponent is on the ground. You bang some people around sorting it out. They hurt when done with intent. I have been thrown through the air 15 feet by a 61 year old man. I am 6'1" tall and 270 lbs. No easy thing. That old man who threw me , I tried to knock his head off his shoulders. He considered it an insult if you did not attack him that way. To him it meant I did not think he could do the technique. I have seen, felt and hit with Ki. It can be beautiful thing.

I do not think the man is a fraud he just forgot why he doing this.


If you are going to put a bounty on yourself of $ 5,000 do not be shocked when somebody shows up to collect.

The bounty goes against the ideas of Ki as I understand them. To have a contest or to have conflict with someone even yourself weakens and interrupts Ki flow.

Stay in touch with what you are really studying and training to do.

Nomatic
18th January 2013, 00:43
WOW.....

This thread is quite eye opening and I must jump in for a second.
1. A real High level master would not engage in this type of thing.
2. Real Masters still exist and are quite rare. I have studied with a one for a long time.
3. Most of the real ones are also Martial Arts experts beyond the physical level and a MMA fighter would not stand a chance. A Qi Gong practitioner alone would have to be at really high degree of attainment to engage a trained fighter without injury.
4. The technology that is reflected in Myth and movies like Crouching Tiger Exist but takes years of very heavy training and most folks would never make it through.
5. To many Masters and not enough Deep Students exist.

Earthship
18th January 2013, 00:48
Hey folks,
Who is responsible? The students who, through their complacency, convinced their master that he´s really got Chi power? (...)
Any possible parallels with the relationship between religious "gurus" and their followers?


My take on this:

1. Yes, there are "fake" gurus, and there are also gullible followers.

2. The fact that there are "fake"" gurus, does not implies that some "forces" -which, by know, are little known and studied by the scientific method- do not or could not exist (not that you, Raf, are implying that those forces don´t exist), and also true master do not exist; as an example, the video of the Aikido masters above, and, in addition, the video that I'm posting below (sorry, I did not find the English version).


G1I7e2L-j4Q

eaglespirit
18th January 2013, 00:49
I believe the solution has something to do with NO ONE participating anymore....tall order to come up with how to accomplish that, though.

There Ya Go, Donk...much more to it in the sustenance of the rhythm...but that is the best starting point for most people to finally "get it", imho...very, very quiet contemplation and then enactment...once it shows itself the show is YOURS to create.
The more of Us that "touch" this the more creation entrainment...

RMorgan started this thread and this is my seen and felt reason...
Carmody expressed it and Others with the same 'flavor' came in... the "energy" of this thread alone can change the world if it is "gotten" and lived in a "just do it" persistent and consistent way. The "energy" of this is opening ever so wide now...ever-so-wide in expansion!!! Expand It, More!

Nomatic
18th January 2013, 01:03
I a real tradition the student is tested to see if they have attained something.
I.E. Putting your head through a cement block or having a Jeep driven over your stomach.
In this way there is no chance of it all being a cult of personality.

sigma6
18th January 2013, 01:17
I believe in mind over matter, and I agree with the comment that anyone who had truly achieved any level of mastery, would not be taking on challenges let alone posting $5000.00... That said this is clearly an example of hypnosis, that slipped into the training... Human nature being what it is, people take the path of least resistance. Taking the path of least resistance will not develop the limits of their mental or spiritual discipline.

Chi Masters do exist, here is a real example with third party verification, these testers looked pretty skeptical... at the beginning... I'd like to see MMA guy test himself on someone like this...

CuqkP5Mic2U

Also Dynamo Jack...

sMNcOQK1LWs

It appears that consciousness influencing external physical matter, can be most easily demonstrated, with water and electronic equipment... I remember the professor from "What the BLEEP" said after proving that human consciousness can influence whether random generators produce more 1's or 0's, that there is so much power in a single atom that if we could even control a tiny bit of that, that represents an enormous amount of potential power or control over the physical world. What is steel made from? Or Solid Oak?

...OK here we go again (the chicken and egg argument) Atoms are the building blocks of physical matter, make up the table of elements... But atoms themselves are really some form of energy (99.9999+ percent) Intelligent energy I believe. So atoms had to come BEFORE matter, just like bricks come before the house. And energy had to come before atoms.

Numerous ancient text make reference to that which is not material or not visible. But it is NOT nothing either... This is where consciousness resides. That is why "Life" is a miracle... every living organism with any level of consciousness is a miracle of interaction between physical material matter and this 'energy'. Consciousness cannot be found 'deposited' in any organ of the body, because it is non-material. But it's existence is a matter of unquestionable reality and the secret to great wisdom. Your own life experience is the proof. The 'illusion' if there is any is that we keep making physical reality primary. There is a philosophy that this leads to all manner of limitation and selfishness, fear and anxiety.

The faith people mock is the faith that there is something greater then material reality. The sad irony is today we don't even NEED faith, since there is clearly enough science AND technological evidence and historical record to show this is absolutely true!

I recently listened to David Wynn Miller, even the court system (ancient occult knowledge) recognizes that our thoughts are NOT considered part of this world... (why they don't "listen" to us in court.... but that's another story...) The point is even the ancient masonic (or whatever) occult brotherhood (Judges call each other brother) recognize thought (or consciousness) as NOT being of this (material) world... Think about it... how many take their conscious existence for granted? You will never know how much you wasted your life (your conscious awareness in this physical reality) until the end of it (when it will be too late...) Because thought which exists in consciousness, which can transcend time, space, manipulate external reality at a distance has a reality, but not a physicality. If this is still hard to believe, just keep studying...(lol)

We should take it to heart, the world of reality doesn't end where our ignorance begins... and whatever kind of discipline is required to achieve mastery of this force that is the very fabric of the universe, is possible, because we have a connection to it! via our consciousness! ...

I don't know, but I imagine it would take just as much effort and discipline to do such a thing as the same discipline that a bodybuilder would require to physically build a massive physique. Kung Fu masters spend decades developing themselves physically and mentally. Just because I can't, doesn't mean I have to make the ego decision to deny it's existence. I just find that kind of thinking pathetic, and rationalizing. And although rationalizing is a mainstay in the lives of millions. It is just another way of saying "I am lying to myself in order to make something I perceive as uncomfortable or difficult more manageable"... (how pathetic is that, as a daily philosophy?) Not recommended.

This is an example of othing more then hypnosis, A result of comfortable rationalizations that crept in and became a habitual substitute for true mental discipline. There is a difference between creating your own reality and solipsism. He should be grateful that greater truth finally caught up with him. (karma)

And below: DNA is a transmitter receiver of photonic energy (that's getting pretty close to the "other side")... the truth is out there

9l6VPpDublg

Nomatic
18th January 2013, 01:41
To violate Newtonian Physics requires an integration of mind, Body and Bio energy and it is not mystical it is science. Nature has evolved in a myriad of functionality that
most humans don't have access to but is our birthright as we are the expression of life from the single cell to the complex. The old taoist and other true practices trained the student
to first rewire the physical container. Next Upgrade the endocrine system followed by a calibration to other subsets of nature energy and then use specific integrated cellular function under control of the practitioners mind.
I rarely post but I feel this needed to be put in the mix.....

music
18th January 2013, 02:29
We feed the monster and the monster feeds us; It´s a symbiotic relationship.


Symbiotic implies both parties receive mutual benefit, and I don't believe this is the case. I would call it concealed parasatism. Buying into the corporate model of existence provides no benefit, it is in fact detrimental because our awareness is derailed when we accept happiness substitutes instead of finding true inner happiness.

Tai chi and Qi gong are variants of Kung fu, tai chi is for the elder folk who don't move too well, qi gong focuses on strengthening meridians and the energy behind the moves, while a true kung fu master utilises the moves, speed, agility and energy inherent in the other two. I have seen an aikido master use nothing but pure energy to stop and repel a random attacker he did not know. Perhaps this particular master (OP) did not believe in the principles he worked with as much as he thought?

Carmody
18th January 2013, 03:00
I remember watching this video years ago and thinking to myself, a real Ki Gong Master Would never engage in actual fist fight to promote himself or the art, IMO. The real Ki Gong masters I have every heard of usually demostrate their practice by using the healing arts.

-be safe and try not to get punched in the face :)

Not only that, but they will not even demonstrate the full range of their capabilities to their own students until they achieve the level of maturity to handle it. I have been sent out of the room with the junior students more than once because the Master was going to give an advanced instruction that, if exposed to us too early, would create a growth barrier that we would never get past. Years later when we were ready for the instruction, we received it and incorporated it without succumbing to "spiritual materialism".

The same applies to the materialism inherent within 'free energy' technologies. Like dynamite sticks, lit, in the hands of children, in the middle of the playground. This is no exaggeration, it is more of an extreme understatement.

It is there if you want it, you just have to grow enough to handle it.

~~~~~~~~
Edit:
with free energy, we are talking about the totality of the energy levels inherent in the topic of this thread, in the form of incredibly potent machines..in the hands of lets say..the gun toting moron caste of , oh, hicks, whether they be in the city, or the Ozarks, or the desert, or in the middle of china, or wherever. the technology is dangerously simple.

In all seriousness....Antimatter.... in the hands of this man, in whatever shape and form he may take, wherever in the world he may reside (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Butt_Naked).:

http://www.funnyredneckjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/united-states-redneck-special-forces.jpg

Is the world ready for this?

Can you govern yourself?

Can you guarantee this in your neighbor?

Can you or your neighbor guarantee this self governance, in permanence, until the day they die....in themselves, or the given children, in yourself?

This is 'the wall' we are facing, right now.

All the idiot/killers working for blackwater, or Xe, all the idiots on capitol hill (Washington DC), all the idiots in the desert (or wherever they be), all the killers, the Netenyahoos, the Saddams, the Bushes..all of that... everywhere MUST END, period. Free energy in the hands of that, is a guaranteed disaster, that won't last long. There won't be any people. At all.

Free energy will take us to the edge of making total nuclear annihilation look like a gentle walk on the beach, in comparison. All inside of maybe 3-5 years of it's introduction.

Guest
18th January 2013, 03:11
I watched a 100lbs woman who was being verbally harrassed by a 200 lbs man standing 8ft, 2.5m away from her take 2 steps extend her hand out (without touching him) he lifted off of the ground about a foot flew backward 6ft. and landed in the dirt on his arse.
He was so stunned he didn't know what had happened. Another guy standing there with me witnessed it also.
She was a Qi Gong practitioner.

Qi Gong is a great art. I love it. I've studied 2 different kinds and 2 types of karate -inner &outer The inner kind of karate is very powerful, strengthens and develops the inner core chi.
I've also taught Qi Gong to teens and the elderly. A lot of fun.
Ba gua style is great for focus and balance. Tree form for connecting to the earth and developing heart energy. It's wonderful for clearing blocks, keeping negative energies off and for healing. Something the PTB doesn't want you to know about or do.

It's also complimentary to monatomics and a vegetarian diet.

Love

Nora

Carmody
18th January 2013, 03:11
RAF - I hear you, and I believe that as a species, we are easily manipulated. I tend to think that depending on circumstances, we have a different level of responsibility. I think that by being p!ssed off at "generations" and entire manipulated populations in general, aren't you are falling into the same trap?

Individuals made individual decisions that effect each individual that exists in a slightly different way, and each of those individuals has their own experience that effected their decisions right here & now--and how manipulated, or "their own" decision that they are varies as well.

At least, that's the way I view the macro of sociology--it is twisted by generalities, removing individual responsibility.

Back to carmody and the "micro" (for lack of better term) which I think is slightly on topic (maybe), I posit:


Welcome to the next level.

...says the man that assures me that I will not even be able to incorporate the knowledge he shared which is required to "get me there", which I did not fully comprehend anyway.

How did you transcend the limits of said 'given self', and learn to incorporate the "information you gave me"?

You mis-interpreted what I said. to rephrase the meaning, again...what I said was that there is VERY high probability that the you as you are and the collective as it is, as a vibrational state of existence and 'mind' will cause the thoughts delivered to backslide out of your mind, until they are forgotten.

Like some weird thing connected to a situation involving a relative or girlfriend or friend or parent or some other thing that happened to you in your youth or earlier in life. something buried that you forgot, over time, some major embarrassment or pain. We all have them. Most of us, the vast majority of us... don't turn and process them, we burn them out of our conscious memory.

That the thoughts that ring in the beginning stages of clarity are slowly erased in the mind in similar connected fashion, as the pressure to not go there is bigger than the truth. This, due to the truth requiring that all hurts, even birth, be fully processed. This, as an act, to clear oneself to the level required to handle the data, and what the data will bring to the self, as an unfolding.

'No good deed goes unpunished' by the collective desire of the unconscious in humanity, which is , right now, the main driver of the formation of reality and it's unfolding, in time and space.

foreverfan
18th January 2013, 03:25
What I saw as a total fraud who got his a$$ kicked. :)

Nomatic
18th January 2013, 03:30
We feed the monster and the monster feeds us; It´s a symbiotic relationship.


Symbiotic implies both parties receive mutual benefit, and I don't believe this is the case. I would call it concealed parasatism. Buying into the corporate model of existence provides no benefit, it is in fact detrimental because our awareness is derailed when we accept happiness substitutes instead of finding true inner happiness.

Tai chi and Qi gong are variants of Kung fu, tai chi is for the elder folk who don't move too well, qi gong focuses on strengthening meridians and the energy behind the moves, while a true kung fu master utilises the moves, speed, agility and energy inherent in the other two. I have seen an aikido master use nothing but pure energy to stop and repel a random attacker he did not know. Perhaps this particular master (OP) did not believe in the principles he worked with as much as he thought?

The "master" in the video was not at a sufficient level to overcome the MMA guy on the physical and mental level. To repel someone with just Qi takes a lot of Pure energy training and It is also a great waste of energy unless your life is in danger. Tai Chi is not just for the elderly folks as it is a martial art in its origin. High Level tai chi is something to behold and few have seen it in public. Qi Gong is to rewire the Meridians to be able to run more bio energy, make each of the Yin organs produce more Qi and to integrate mind, body and
energy. Most Qi Gong taught in public is the exoteric type like breathing and light movement. The Inner temple stuff is quite strange and takes a lot of effort to master and was
only given to formal students after years of observation. Many of the comments I see here reflect significant misunderstanding of the Qi.......

Airwooz
18th January 2013, 03:44
Haha Qigong was so poppular back to 80's here in China, everybody practiced Qigong for hobby, caused the founding father of china's first a-bomb Tsien Hsue-shen saids Qigong is real he even started a official psychic magazine to promoted the idea. And then there A communism General called Wangzhen invited a psychic(the guy later to be arrested for committed fraudulence ) to performed telekinese for him, is all on video record. Entered 90's everthing just gone quiet, government arrested many Qigong master, some fled to American, some died in mistery car accidents these makes me wonder there gotta have some real portion in the whole Qigong movement.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Left-right_Ludwig_Prandtl%2C_Theodore_Von_Karman%2C_Tsi en_Hsue-sen.jpg

Here is a picture shows Tsien Hsue-shen with von karman, He served in US Army Air Forces back then.

RunningDeer
18th January 2013, 03:58
We feed the monster and the monster feeds us; It´s a symbiotic relationship.


Symbiotic implies both parties receive mutual benefit, and I don't believe this is the case. I would call it concealed parasatism. Buying into the corporate model of existence provides no benefit, it is in fact detrimental because our awareness is derailed when we accept happiness substitutes instead of finding true inner happiness.

Tai chi and Qi gong are variants of Kung fu, tai chi is for the elder folk who don't move too well, qi gong focuses on strengthening meridians and the energy behind the moves, while a true kung fu master utilises the moves, speed, agility and energy inherent in the other two. I have seen an aikido master use nothing but pure energy to stop and repel a random attacker he did not know. Perhaps this particular master (OP) did not believe in the principles he worked with as much as he thought?


tai chi is for the elder folk who don't move too well
Clarification: I've been doing Tai Chi since 1988. Tai Chi is done at any speed.

This is me last summer. There's subtle release throughout, but skip to about the 4 minute mark for contained power, release and speed at the very end.


uXilEnYGqfc

music
18th January 2013, 04:11
I'm talking about in China, where the arts originate. My understanding is that there, when old age is reached, some of the forms of the martial art are slowed down. When you do your tai chi, you will see that many of the movements are actually blocks, just slowed down. But I was only told that by a Chinese gentleman, who knows, he may have been wrong. I was left with the impression that tai chi was not a martial art in itself, it merely utilises many of the forms of kung fu.

RunningDeer
18th January 2013, 04:37
I'm talking about in China, where the arts originate. My understanding is that there, when old age is reached, some of the forms of the martial art are slowed down. When you do your tai chi, you will see that many of the movements are actually blocks, just slowed down. But I was only told that by a Chinese gentleman, who knows, he may have been wrong. I was left with the impression that tai chi was not a martial art in itself, it merely utilises many of the forms of kung fu.

You can kick butt with Tai Chi. Break bones. Run energy through the entire body including the meridians. All movements are blocks, attacks, and deflects. The whole form is 125 moves. That was just a small part. Tai Chi is done slow, but not because people are old. I do it slowly because it's a moving meditation. No mind practice.

I also took Shaolin Kungfu, (Mantis). It's an external style and done in quick movements.

Tai Chi movement is like a whip. It's mechanics is physics. The movement begins at the root, and the movement proceeds in one continuous flow. The entire body mechanic begins from the feet right into the tips of each finger. Each of the movement also creates heat and energy that works in conjunction with all the systems within the body. So refinement of energy and healing also occurs.


Wikipedia’s Explanation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong):

Applications: People practice qigong for many different reasons, including for exercise and recreation, prevention and self-healing, meditation and self-cultivation, and training for martial arts.

Qigong, chi kung, or chi gung (simplified Chinese: 气功; traditional Chinese: 氣功; pinyin: qěgōng; Wade–Giles: chi4 gong1; literally "Life Energy Cultivation") is a practice of aligning breath, movement, and awareness for exercise, healing, and meditation.[1] With roots in Chinese medicine, martial arts, and philosophy, qigong is traditionally viewed as a practice to cultivate and balance qi (chi) or what has been translated as "intrinsic life energy".[2] Typically a qigong practice involves rhythmic breathing coordinated with slow stylized repetition of fluid movement, a calm mindful state, and visualization of guiding qi through the body.[3] Qigong is now practiced throughout China and worldwide, and is considered by some to be exercise, and by others to be a type of alternative medicine or meditative practice.[4] From a philosophical perspective qigong is believed to help develop human potential, allow access to higher realms of awareness, and awaken one's "true nature".[5]

9eagle9
18th January 2013, 04:47
And it’s been everyone’s experience to be duped by those who ‘think’ they know what they are talking about. I’m sure the dude in the video thought his experience would serve him well, apparently it existed elsewhere other than expression. Just in his head.

Martial Discipline is expressed physically. If the man was truly the master he thought he was I’m sure that would have turned out differently if it had occurred at all. I’m going to have to say if these’ disciplines are so helpful where are they failing at. The discipline or the people using them? Or should I say abusing them.

I see a great many people fraudulently flop their way through mental disciplines, they have fat minds. And people who flop their way through physical disciplines, they have fat , slack or unsound and undisciplined bodies so provide their own evidence of perhaps not really being all aware of what they are doing. Or it's intended purpose. It exists as ‘thought’ in their head. In each circumstance they are essentially fooling themselves and no one else. One’s emotional sense of their own greatness beats their arse before anyone else gets to. The fight is lost before the opponent shows up.

A whole new realm of auto hypnosis .

A disciplined body produces a sound body. A disciplined mind produces a sound mind put the two together and the evidence is in expression, not ‘talk’.

Obese raw food dieters instructing others on how to conduct their eating habits, ditto unhealthy vegetarians, is there any REAL examples of mastery left anymore. Not any readily avalaible; Masters typically stay away from that sort of self promotion.

And for the others. Arse beat before the opponent shows up.

People don’t seem to realize they provide their own evidence. Self delusion produces its own evidence.

The nice thing about discipline (not the easy thing) is disciplined people KNOW when they are being undisciplined.

2013 is shaping up to be a year where those people no matter if they are self defrauded or simply con artists are pretty much going to be under much intense scrutiny if the last few weeks has revealed anything to us.

I've observed a sudden spike in critical thinking and observation skills since the flop of 12-21-12 and that finally, after years of stagnancy is a good thing.

Nomatic
18th January 2013, 04:54
My Master asserts that Tai Chi is a martial art and watching him do it is way different than what most folks do. He actually has energy expressed in the form but
much Tai chi is empty because students have not done the years of hard style training to activate the organ Qi. You have to have control of the inner
world before it can be expressed with mastery on the external. I know folks that have studied for 30 years but have not been given the true inner training.
They progressed more in 9 months with specific Qi Gong than there previous decades of roll hands. My only point with all of this is to say that it comes
down to lineage and method. Lineage is the software portion that is a subtle blueprint for human development and method being the Hardware upgrade.
The guy who got beat by the MMA fighter did not have sufficient energy to overcome his opponent and muddied the water for humanity's potential in the process.
This ego centric display served to fuel skeptics who know little of the energy world and to highlight the perception physical level Martial Arts are more real.
The High Kung Fu Master's know that the Martial Level is the lower of the tools for battle. For humanity to come into there birthright we need to have the software
functions turned back on by seeing real masters. The unfortunate thing is many of the real ones have either been hunted down by there governments or died
without finding one single student willing to go through what it takes to get to a high level.
Forgive my rant.........

Fellow Aspirant
18th January 2013, 06:21
A fascinating display and discussion!

I can think of three rather obvious lessons in this cautionary tale:

Don't act out of ego.
Don't believe your own press.
Don't believe because you want to believe.

Good advice for everybody, eh?

Maybe especially valuable to us folks who share this forum.:p

Namaste

music
18th January 2013, 06:29
Thanks for the clarification WhiteCrowBlackDeer and Nomatic, my information must have come from someone who knew less than they thought :)

Ilie Pandia
18th January 2013, 13:29
They tried that, where the expectation bias was neutral, IIRC.

That the results where also as neutral. That the results where also as ambiguous as the expectations.

As humans, no matter what we do..we will always have some aspect of expectation within us. neutrality itself is also a form of expectation.


So Carmody,

To change the result of an experiment is enough to change my inner expectation of the result? And therefore create a "new map" using my altered perception?

If this is what you are saying... who put the original expectations within me? Why do I expect something and not another thing? And more importantly how can I escape this vicious circle? :becky:

(*Ilie is fully expecting a detailed and clear answer from Carmody and he also expects to understand the reply*)

PS: After further reading it seems that Carmody will reply, I will make a "map of" whatever he wrote, and what I read may or may not be what Carmody actually wrote... we have a conundrum...

Eram
18th January 2013, 13:34
(*Ilie is fully expecting a detailed and clear answer from Carmody and he also expects to understand the reply*)



Liar liar pants on fire!

9eagle9
18th January 2013, 13:44
@Nomatic : You have to have control of the inner
world before it can be expressed with mastery on the external.

Worth repeating a zillion and eleventy times.

jackovesk
18th January 2013, 16:04
Street Fighting Tips 101...:boxing:

Not that many of you have been in a real fight, or ever want to be in one...

If by some minute chance you are somehow cornered by someone and can't reason your way out of it, and you feel it in your bones conflict is imminent..?

Question: How will you know if conflict is imminent..?

Answer: When your natural 'Survival-Instincts Kick In' and the 'Adrenilin' flows throughout your body...

Throw the 1st punch with Malice and then...:bolt:

:)

Operator
18th January 2013, 16:28
...

In all seriousness....Antimatter.... in the hands of this man, in whatever shape and form he may take, wherever in the world he may reside (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Butt_Naked).:

http://www.funnyredneckjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/united-states-redneck-special-forces.jpg

Is the world ready for this?

Can you govern yourself?

Can you guarantee this in your neighbor?

Can you or your neighbor guarantee this self governance, in permanence, until the day they die....in themselves, or the given children, in yourself?

This is 'the wall' we are facing, right now.

...


I think you're right. And this was more or less my point also from the beginning of this thread.

If someone asks "Why did you do that?" the reply may be "Because I can!".
No morality, no remorse, no responsibility. It takes responsibility and balanced spirituality to handle the power/knowledge/ability
you possess. Wasn't that the point in "Lord of the rings"? Humans did not have the strength to resist the abuse of the ring.

Add on top the conditioning of the masses ... problem, reaction, solution.

They will react if they can. But should you always react?

I think mankind needs to learn how to control itself before obtaining more powers.
We need to learn how to let go instead of jumping the gun all the time.

IMHO the MMA fighter in the OP lost ... because I think he lost his control.
He could have proven that Qi Gong had no effect on him.
But instead he had to show to his ability to hurt another human real bad in virtually no time.

Was it his reaction to disprove Qi Gong or was his reaction easy money?
The real master (in whatever art) would have reacted differently.

sigma6
19th January 2013, 01:45
we are mere flotsam in the greater universe... live and exist within a small band of the known energy spectrum, hell we can't even see what bees see, can't hear what elephants hear and so on, there is a universe happening all around us that we aren't even aware of, right in the same physical plain... Then there are dimensions totally unavailable to the physical world (for the most part) the only connection to all these realities has to be somewhere within our own mind... in the depths of our own consciousness, either through meditation, astro travel, remote viewing, consciousness is the only aspect of our selves that we know it exists by its effect, otherwise it's not here physically in this realm... I think when we effect things with our minds, we are doing it through a different connection, at the level of the atomic structure (or smaller)... where there is no time, space, or matter (as we experience it) ...just the building blocks of time, space and matter

Carmody
19th January 2013, 02:26
They tried that, where the expectation bias was neutral, IIRC.

That the results where also as neutral. That the results where also as ambiguous as the expectations.

As humans, no matter what we do..we will always have some aspect of expectation within us. neutrality itself is also a form of expectation.


So Carmody,

To change the result of an experiment is enough to change my inner expectation of the result? And therefore create a "new map" using my altered perception?

If this is what you are saying... who put the original expectations within me? Why do I expect something and not another thing? And more importantly how can I escape this vicious circle? :becky:

(*Ilie is fully expecting a detailed and clear answer from Carmody and he also expects to understand the reply*)

PS: After further reading it seems that Carmody will reply, I will make a "map of" whatever he wrote, and what I read may or may not be what Carmody actually wrote... we have a conundrum...

I don't have an answer. I only have my own answer.

I'll twist my way out of it, by saying that you have to arrive at your own answer.

That we are always twisting in the wind and that realizing that we are,and taking charge of that twisting is the deal, to some extent.

That we are always like an inflated sail, flapping in wind.

Waking up is taking charge of how one integrates with the flow, is all.

That when you 'wake up', per se, you kinda feel a bit like toonces the driving cat. But that unlike toonces, you can actually drive.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to learn on the job. Like suddenly finding yourself in car, driving down the road.

DeDukshyn
19th January 2013, 03:29
Key words .. "Learn on the job"

Only way I ever learned anything. Not by studying, but by "Trying"
Not sure if that relates to yours and Ilie's conversation, but as a stand-alone that is worth pointing out.

My 2 cents ;)

Sirius White
19th January 2013, 10:14
FIrst of all. This is old and has been shown around on MMA forums for years, especially bullshido.

Second of all, who is to say he is a real ki master? What constitutes a ki master? Just because he has a website and claims he can knock out people with ki? Stupid. Because "real ki masters" can literally paralyze you from not even being in the same room as you. And believe me, those kind of people you will never find in a public event as laughable as this.

Third of all, being trained in Ki/Chi does NOT MAKE YOU A FIGHTER! You take a guy who is trained to beat the guy out of someone else, and a guy who is trained to circulate chi through his channels, and then put them in a ring together. Who is going to win?

More than likely his students were constantly subconsciously trained to respect him, and their energies (literally, the chi) were linked to one another, and so the teacher, who had a greater energy influence could manipulate to some extent the WILLING students nervous systems. To actually penetrate someones nervous system with ENERGY and de-abilitate them takes some SERIOUS energetic development and psychic training. Which is VERY rare, and rare for a reason.

The only people I have heard who can do this are a few masters, and also some military/agency people high up who have been trained by the most cutting edge technologies and methodologies to remote influence others. In Russia I hear the higher ups can do some pretty nifty thing with their martial arts.

I hate videos like this because its just another thing for the meatheads to jump on the bandwagon with.

Nomatic
19th January 2013, 13:16
I agree with you......

Lost Soul
20th January 2013, 06:21
The master proved that the face block always stops a fist.

apokalypse
20th January 2013, 06:53
must watch this interview and you will see why Bruce Lee is the father of MMA...just love Bruce Lee for his philosophy
ToZ0dWxcJGI
-nTUCIs_l7E

MMA might be a sport but i always considered it as Bruce Lee Philosophy "the style of no style" and you can use it in life aswell. my cousin renovate their house. They call this guy up who able to do everything from Plumping to electrical while many guys out there they only able to do one thing and they need to hire Plumping to do the plumping work and electrician to do electrical work.

this remind me of Alex Collier said about Andomedia where they expect their kids to learn every aspect of arts from Science to businesses...PHD of everything.

Nomatic
20th January 2013, 13:11
My teacher told us once of a Qi Gong master that was challenged by several martial artists to a fight. His reply was that fighting was ugly but if they must do this why don't all four of them try to move him. None of the martial artists could move the old master a inch and then the contest was over. The high level folks can also simply enter your mind and suggest that fighting is not a good idea.

Nanoo Nanoo
20th January 2013, 17:48
Chi energy is most definitely real. And it can truly give you a shock when you receive it.

There is the ability to learn it and create it on demand but the average person can fluke it as well. The Qi Gung master seemed to me a little in love with him self, this was the fault with his defense. One must never feel superior to his opponent, but instead have no mind or emotion. The Qi Gung master is most definitely able to beat his class through the respect belief of his class. This empowers him greatly.

I would not dismiss Qi Gung based on this video but its also not the best way to defend your self. In 25+ years of training in martial arts i have , without wanting to or even thinking i could , accidentally tapped into Chi power and used it .. Interesting thing was it was mostly during practice, when i was relaxed. I recall an example training with a colleague. We trained and taught Karate Do 30 to 35 hours a week. We were training one day and i managed a head high snap kick to the right side of the opponents face. I put no force into it nor was i actually trying to hurt him as he he was a friend and we were merely cardio training. The kick touched his face, and i mean a tap .. as soon as it made contact his eyes rolled in his head and he fell to the ground un concious. When he came to he described what happened to him. He said all he heard was a thunder clap, a bright blinding light and then he was out , curiously he was holding the other side of his face and swore id kicked him with my other leg.. he looked very confused when i clearly explained it was my left leg snap kick .. he could not understand why the other side of his face hurt . This happened all through out my martial arts career where in kumite ( fighting ) something would happen and we would both be shocked , my opponent would say .. " what the heck did you just do to me !? " and id just shrug my shoulders.. because i had no idea where it came from .. I also had the presence of mind not to over analise it.. i just let it happen from then on.

I also remember our Master at the time , he was a very jolly man , always extremely peaceful and jovial. I remember thinking in the early days that he would not be much of an opponent. Then one day i was called up to fight him to get my brown belt .. i remember his techniques seemed so slow .. and id almost become cocky.. what a mistake that was.. he toyed with me for half an hour.. he even ruffled my hair for a joke .. it was so embarrasing lol then he asked me to really turn it on.. as a final for the class.. he managed to block everything and then just lightly tapped my gut with his foot.. and it threw me across the room .. a few days later i looked at my back in the miorror and there was a huge circular bruise the size of a basket ball right on the other side of where he kicked me.. i think that was Chi energy .. ouch ;0 )

this is how Chi energy works. Id seen this many times since then. Id also experienced beginners fluke channeling chi energy .. its something inherant in our abilities. When certain mental and physical pathways hit a combination, which is difficult to desypher, it will spark.

We hear of instances where for eg a person is stuck under a heavy log and in that emergency another person was able to lift the log which otherwise would normally be impossible. But it happens , why ? I think its what they call Chi energy. This is tapping into and chanelling energy that abundant around us.

Tai Chi is also a form of peaceful energy healing and some even use it as a self defense but id be putting my money on the hitter rather than the energy chaneller at least in western standards. I believe the one who could truly defend them self with pure chi energy may be sitting on the side of a mountain and would possibly refuse showing the abilities to merely show off..

Since my training i have witnessed countless experiences where my chi will ignite without me even thinking of it .. just because i am relaxed. Its real but i dont agree on abusing it with showing off. The Qi Gong Master was shown humility to lower his ego and it was just.

Two of my all time fave fighters , Benny The Jet ! all hail Benny ! i trained with this guy and he is brilliant.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-Lkqz_dnk

and the ever magnificent Bruce Lee he was good, but remember his stunt double was Jackie Chang ! regardless he was awesome ! This video footage is real ..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA



The true foundational spirit of the martial artist is Love.

hugs

Naniu

Carmody
20th January 2013, 21:57
Speaking of grouped meditations with the exact same intent and how powerful it can be. The multiplier effect.

There are approximately 8 million people,and counting..right now.. that are powerfully immersed in the USA revolution of 1776.

Where one group, all made up of singular people, individuals.. all in the identical mindset and mindscape... of fighting against secret societies and Templars. Fighting hidden societies and fighting hidden agendas.

Game:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Assassin%27s_Creed_III_Game_Cover.jpg

Remember..8 million... and counting....right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_III

what did the studies and the meta studies ultimately say?

That perfected experiments designed to test psychic sensitives would do these things:

That non believers would have failed experimental results- no psychic sensitivity.

That believers would have successful experimental results- perfect repeatable psychic sensitivity.

That ambiguous experimenters would have ambiguous experimental results. -50%-50%-unprovable either way.

"Energy goes..where attention and focus flows"

That you are living and responsive energy, as a pattern, that calls itself intelligent ..and has self observational capacities...immersed in a field of energy.

That is what the results seem to be saying, do they not?

That if you remain unaware..that I can probably....manipulate you.

And that if I seek to manipulate you, to feed off of you, then I'm capable of being called, in the modern terms and context...of being called a predator, or a parasite.

Carmody
20th January 2013, 22:38
the ping pong video is fake, by the way, but believable from the chi end of things. It is from a nokia phone ad campaign in 2008.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/pingpong.asp

Nanoo Nanoo
20th January 2013, 23:09
the ping pong video is fake, by the way, but believable from the chi end of things. It is from a nokia phone ad campaign in 2008.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/pingpong.asp


Those naughty film makers! I was convinced it was real. Thats amazing. Hmm


N

Carmody
20th January 2013, 23:30
the ping pong video is fake, by the way, but believable from the chi end of things. It is from a nokia phone ad campaign in 2008.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/pingpong.asp


Those naughty film makers! I was convinced it was real. Thats amazing. Hmm


N

I was as well, as I understand Chi. That my brother had been trained by the original family line of the Shaolin monks that left the Monasteries in the hills, and began to train the people of the land.

Nanoo Nanoo
21st January 2013, 04:23
I remember watching this video years ago and thinking to myself, a real Ki Gong Master Would never engage in actual fist fight to promote himself or the art, IMO. The real Ki Gong masters I have every heard of usually demostrate their practice by using the healing arts.

-be safe and try not to get punched in the face :)

Not only that, but they will not even demonstrate the full range of their capabilities to their own students until they achieve the level of maturity to handle it. I have been sent out of the room with the junior students more than once because the Master was going to give an advanced instruction that, if exposed to us too early, would create a growth barrier that we would never get past. Years later when we were ready for the instruction, we received it and incorporated it without succumbing to "spiritual materialism".

The same applies to the materialism inherent within 'free energy' technologies. Like dynamite sticks, lit, in the hands of children, in the middle of the playground. This is no exaggeration, it is more of an extreme understatement.

It is there if you want it, you just have to grow enough to handle it.

~~~~~~~~
Edit:
with free energy, we are talking about the totality of the energy levels inherent in the topic of this thread, in the form of incredibly potent machines..in the hands of lets say..the gun toting moron caste of , oh, hicks, whether they be in the city, or the Ozarks, or the desert, or in the middle of china, or wherever. the technology is dangerously simple.

In all seriousness....Antimatter.... in the hands of this man, in whatever shape and form he may take, wherever in the world he may reside (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Butt_Naked).:

http://www.funnyredneckjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/united-states-redneck-special-forces.jpg

Has tnis photo been doctored? It looks like the head has been photoshopped? Just curious

Carmody
21st January 2013, 06:12
Very doctored. Wrong head, gun is wrong scale (too big), both are purposeful distortions. I found it that way... and used it. Seemed fitting.