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ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 09:47
Continuing inquiry to human potential.

My argument if you wish to call it that has always been at an understanding that it does not have to take a person between 20 to 30 years of hard focusing and meditation to achieve what one has already got. We are told that we are already that which we seek, but it takes time and effort and constant desire to achieve that state of being, as there are as many people in this world, there are as many system for one to achieve not enlightenment, which many already are, but the final release into union with ones being.

Again I feel that there is a point that from hard to soft mechanics can be applied with knowledge before the inevitable point has arisen that one should take oneself into a silent place, and in full knowledge of what ones final stage is, go within and achieve total union with one being.

With today’s modern man, it is very difficult to abandon a family and disappear to Tibet or India for achieving of the final union, as we all know our society thrives on materialism, and paying ones way in life IS a full time occupation. Which leave very little room for people who aspire to reach this union. Therefore my insistent and persistent view as to what extent can we replace knowledge as a replacement for the years being spent in seclusion to the state of union. There must be a way, that we can proceed without the traditional way as say even a 1,000 years ago to even a few hundred years ago, by shortening the time by understanding the mechanics first. That would lead one to the inevitable time of having to take this seclusion to finalise the union.

It is for this very reason that our Bob is pissed off with me, what people here may not understand that between me and Bob its a master and student thing, and I am the worst student that you should ever be so unlucky to meet, we had on many occasion had polite exchanges on PM until it fell apart. What Bob does not know is that I love the guy and do respect him greatly, and look up to him, but that does not mean that I will take their procedure as absolute when there is possible proof otherwise. I had the same relationship with our Tony who always insisted that I don’t listen, what’s new, they are both on a old road to union, and I am saying that we can shorten this procedure by knowledge, hence the mechanics.

So we have Bob who has trodden the old path and therefore extreme in that direction, we have Carmody who has the intellect to take you into both directions as within the internal to the extremes of the external where the only way one can understand him is mostly by intuition of what he says and implies, I like the way he therefore thinks and know where he is at by what he says, I do not need to know who he is, that’s not important to me, for all I know he could be our own resident Alien here on Avalon, I am only very interested in what he says. But there again the message that I get from both Carmody and Bob is, that there is a trodden path, and that’s the way it is, and that then pisses me off.

Waiting for evolution to overtake mankind has lead to the result that we have on this plane, asking people to abandon the all in pursuit of union, has lead as the both Bob and Carmody who know that a very small amounts of people having attained this goal. We were born realised and were misdirected, we therefore have to remove this misdirection through a mechanical mean as much as possible, to allow a shorter time to union. We have a guy like Levenson who has approached this (even by accident), through a suggested mechanical means, that he believes that can at worst, be attained within 2 years, and we have the old proven ways that take a life time, with today’s economics of life and responsibilities, it make the old way impossible for the greater majority of mankind to pursue.

This is the only reason that I had written part 1 and 2. by mechanically removing the obstacle which Bob in this case says that it don’t exist as you are always with being, these emotional barriers in fact do exit, and are therefore are responsible to a large extent of one failing to reach union. I have always been advised to just drop everything and allow to union, I therefore feel like finding a 3.8 putting it between my temples and pressing the trigger, and there its done, dropped the lot. Yes I am the most sarcastic bastard the you would never want to meet, because to me that just an BS answer with very little direction of what it entails to really drop everything, and therefore the implication for family and responsibilities that all of us have here.

Here is something Bob wrote concerning our stance with being, and Levenson.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54496-An-Old-Post-By-Our-Bill-Ryan.&p=618706&viewfull=1#post618706

For me with the greatest respect, that this answer is a direction to nowhere, I did not know of Sedona at that time of finding this formation, I was only interested in the fact of a procedure called releasing. One has to add more than just pooh pooh away other peoples experiences as this method had in fact helped a lot of people to greater understanding that self inflicted obstacle are there, be it emotional trauma as trapped feeling that affect us all greatly, which in point of fact gives people a misconstrued vision of life and reality.

I have been accused of misconstruing what Bob and Carmody said, and the same thing stands from me, that my intention in this inquiry had also been misconstrued.

The fact that Bob has now declared and possibly Carmody too, that he, Bob will not in future participate in my thread, because I twist thing around, well that hurt you guys. This is a mind thing on this web you guys, its useless laying ultimatums when that leads to out and out stagnation. Both of you are my only source here at the moment who I can reference with as to this mechanical approach that leads to a particular point, where the mechanics are dumped, and each of us has to do this final thing on their own, to find who and what they are as union.

Feel free to respond, and if however anyone thinks that I am twisting thing around, you should state that fact there and then.

Regards to all

roman

Fred Steeves
22nd January 2013, 10:27
Hi Roman, I don't see what there is to argue about, or why this need be upsetting. Everybody has their own way, and will do as they please. Let it go brother, just let it go.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 10:48
Hi Roman, I don't see what there is to argue about, or why this need be upsetting. Everybody has their own way, and will do as they please. Let it go brother, just let it go.

Hi Fred

I am and I assure you that I am not upset, I am still following this very same line of enquirery that I had started 2 years ago, this is not an argument, its a line that has caused more riffs in this world than anything else, it would be more helpful of you to tell me precisely to let go of what Fred??

Regards as ever Fred

roman

ViralSpiral
22nd January 2013, 11:03
The challenge here as I see it, is with your attachment to the "mechanics".....
Many paths.
Differing scenery' therefore varying perspectives and choices.
Same destination.
Absorb what works, discard what doesn't.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 11:48
The challenge here as I see it, is with your attachment to the "mechanics".....
Many paths.
Differing scenery' therefore varying perspectives and choices.
Same destination.
Absorb what works, discard what doesn't.

Hi ViralSpiral

Yes I agree, my point is would the mechanics bring people to that important point with mechanics by Lesters example, and then detach oneself form it to fulfill oneself, do you think that is possible, and speed things up by the mechanics which is in question here.

Thank you ViralSpiral

Regards

roman

Ultima Thule
22nd January 2013, 12:01
I guess the same logic could be applied: you can either start the car by ignition and battery power or you can mechanistically push it downhill, lift the clutch and the car starts.

Which ever way the car is started, you still have to drive it to a meaningful destination. I can relate to multiple points of entry in regards to personal development.

UT

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:01
I will rephrase the question, do we think/believe, and that is to those you that had read the 20-pages from Lester Levenson, that it actually speed the result by releasing as he put it from months to a year, as he believes it can, do you doubt that.

Regards

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:05
I guess the same logic could be applied: you can either start the car by ignition and battery power or you can mechanistically push it downhill, lift the clutch and the car starts.

Either way the car is started, you still have to drive it to a meaningful destination. I can relate to multiple points of entry in regards to personal development.

UT

Exactly UT, but do you thing it would be a faster approach to the target, than spending 20 years in seclusion??

regards

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:15
We are all there already, but not to full potential, as it has to be easily attained by as many as possible to restore balance.

regards

roman

cheez_2806
22nd January 2013, 12:19
Hi Roman,

Thankyou for your post, it lead me to alot of other information which are all very intriguing.

I believe some methods that have been recorded out there definitely worked for them but sometimes I reckon perhaps its not the method itself that has the effect to achieve a particular state or reunion but rather the person who is performing the particular method? such as the effect of belief?
there are so many methods out there and they all seem to have a quick effect on some people but not all. possibly suggesting people who may have tried the method gave up because maybe they encountered something they cannot overcome or they still remain addicted to their previous state.

and isn't knowledge and reunion different things? That's what I thought... like you will gain knowledge once you have reunited, but before that knowledge is simply knowledge...you don't know what to do with it or the wise way to use it

skippy
22nd January 2013, 12:28
Roman, it seems that you want to speedup, accelarate the process?

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:30
Hi Roman,

Thankyou for your post, it lead me to alot of other information which are all very intriguing.

I believe some methods that have been recorded out there definitely worked for them but sometimes I reckon perhaps its not the method itself that has the effect to achieve a particular state or reunion but rather the person who is performing the particular method? such as the effect of belief?
there are so many methods out there and they all seem to have a quick effect on some people but not all. possibly suggesting people who may have tried the method gave up because maybe they encountered something they cannot overcome or they still remain addicted to their previous state.

and isn't knowledge and reunion different things? That's what I thought... like you will gain knowledge once you have reunited, but before that knowledge is simply knowledge...you don't know what to do with it or the wise way to use it

Yes I think you are right, I was hoping that the mechanic of a certain knowledge would bring a person to full knowleadge, if you see my point, when I had found this releasing method, I thought how simple it is for all to step up to a point that would free them, and gain their full use of the human potential that reside within.

Thank you cheez_2806

Regards to you

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:34
Roman, it seems that you want to speedup, accelarate the process?

Yes skippy, as they say its already there, we just needed a method which I believe is easy to follow like levenson describes.

Thank you Skippy

Regards

roman

markpierre
22nd January 2013, 12:39
Have yourself buried up to the neck for three days and ensure that there is no option of escape.
That'll crack the code within a 1/2 hour, maybe an hour.
That's if you want fast.

Otherwise you'll have to settle for as long as it takes. That just might not be up to you.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:41
what many of may not know, Leveson went to India for a few of years and brought this releasing method to the west, I have his books that cannot share because of copyright.

Regards

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 12:48
Have yourself buried up to the neck for three days and ensure that there is no option of escape.
That'll crack the code within a 1/2 hour, maybe an hour.
That's if you want fast.

Otherwise you'll have to settle for as long as it takes. That just might not be up to you.

whoosh that made me laugh, yes, that would be true, cant argue with that my friend, if only.

Thank you Markpierre makes all the sense

Regards

roman

cheez_2806
22nd January 2013, 12:57
Hi Roman,

Thankyou for your post, it lead me to alot of other information which are all very intriguing.

I believe some methods that have been recorded out there definitely worked for them but sometimes I reckon perhaps its not the method itself that has the effect to achieve a particular state or reunion but rather the person who is performing the particular method? such as the effect of belief?
there are so many methods out there and they all seem to have a quick effect on some people but not all. possibly suggesting people who may have tried the method gave up because maybe they encountered something they cannot overcome or they still remain addicted to their previous state.

and isn't knowledge and reunion different things? That's what I thought... like you will gain knowledge once you have reunited, but before that knowledge is simply knowledge...you don't know what to do with it or the wise way to use it

Yes I think you are right, I was hoping that the mechanic of a certain knowledge would bring a person to full knowleadge, if you see my point, when I had found this releasing method, I thought how simple it is for all to step up to a point that would free them, and gain their full use of the human potential that reside within.

Thank you cheez_2806

Regards to you

roman


you used the releasing method?

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 13:07
Hi Roman,

Thankyou for your post, it lead me to alot of other information which are all very intriguing.

I believe some methods that have been recorded out there definitely worked for them but sometimes I reckon perhaps its not the method itself that has the effect to achieve a particular state or reunion but rather the person who is performing the particular method? such as the effect of belief?
there are so many methods out there and they all seem to have a quick effect on some people but not all. possibly suggesting people who may have tried the method gave up because maybe they encountered something they cannot overcome or they still remain addicted to their previous state.

and isn't knowledge and reunion different things? That's what I thought... like you will gain knowledge once you have reunited, but before that knowledge is simply knowledge...you don't know what to do with it or the wise way to use it

Yes I think you are right, I was hoping that the mechanic of a certain knowledge would bring a person to full knowleadge, if you see my point, when I had found this releasing method, I thought how simple it is for all to step up to a point that would free them, and gain their full use of the human potential that reside within.

Thank you cheez_2806

Regards to you

roman


you used the releasing method?

Yes I had, got stuck with explaining the mechanics of it all, the psychology of how and why, which i believe i had found for myself, I will fulfill this when I am ready to let go, it had helped me a great deal, as my past had its affect on my life, starting from a refugee camp onwards. at the moment I am sharing and asking question for nearly 2 years

Thank you Cheez_2806

Regards

roman

SKAWF
22nd January 2013, 13:10
i'm probably going to have to read your post a few times Roman.....
but i think ive got the jist of it.

'it does not have to take a person between 20 to 30 years of hard focusing and meditation to achieve what one has already got.'

now bear in mind, i'm seeing pictures as i write this, and my thoughts are trying to put words to those pictures.

imagine that we are only.... an energetic being.
and what you see when you look at at a human, is something like a 3d semi transparent construct.
this construct is comprised of layers. the heart, the mind, the conscience, intuition, instinct etc

tptb know all about these layers. they have more than a passing familiarity with the entire construct.
and what they have done, is to flip these layers around so that they are the opposite of what they should be.
in actual fact, its the world system they have designed which actually does the flipping,
but what they do, through education and the like, is put us on a path which we follow...
and that path systematically results in things within us, being flipped around.

but they never tell us that. they dont explain the layers, or the construct...
they just leave us to it.
and as we have no other point of reference to compare this 'life experience' with,
there isnt much of a way for us to find out whats been done to us.

then they implant us with a system of thinking. our minds begin to develop in the manner of their choosing,
not our own!
its a very limited system of thinking, and not really suitable for the being that we are.
i believe our true mental process, is in the interpretation of images, and patterns provided by the imagination.

we dont actually need the mind that we currently have.

but its there.

and it may be 20 or 30 years before someone begins to realise that there might be more to being a human,
but by then the mind is so established, so dominant that its almost impossible to work something out, without using it.

i say that the mind itself, is the problem. its a psychological implant. it shouldnt be there.
it is the prison, which most people have no idea that they are in.

so imagine that you're 35 years old, you've realised that there is more to life,
and you have decided to embark on a process of learning, self exploration.

what tool are you going to use to process the new things you are finding out?.......

the mind.................. which is actually the cause of the problem.
its a wicked mechanism to trap someone in. because the more you learn........
the more your mind progresses, the more advanced your thinking becomes.......

the deeper you bury yourself into the thing which is causing the problem. (clever eh?!)

so lets get into it...........the voice of the mind.
the thing that your thoughts are made of....the thing which says the words as you read them.

IME, my minds voice is nearly almost always rabbiting away, trying to make sense of my current experience,
or whatever else i'm focusing my attention on.
its quite loud. quite 'imposing in some respects.. quite reactionary......

BUT...

its not the only voice in there!...........there is another one.

i call it the voice of the being. our true voice.

its entirely different in its nature.
its very unimposing. that is to say that it doesnt force its presence, its way more softly spoken than the voice of the mind.
it doesnt react... it doesnt need to work things out, it doesnt shout or scream, and instead of it telling me what i should do, it acts more as a guide.
always there, calm, gentle, like a true friend looking out for my interests, but leaving me free to experience the 'experience, without imposing itself upon me.

as an aside i have done lots of drugs in my time. i have experienced my own mind crashing. it was completely unable to comprehend the experience i was having.
it ....... stopped. but the voice of my being was able to continue.

the reason i have highlighted those two states, is so that we can see where we are now... (the mind) in relation to where we want to be (the being)
and if ive understood the OP, what it is you are seeking, is a mechanism to get you from one state, to the other.
rather than having to walk a path for twenty years,

sadly, i dont think its as easy as that.
if there is a mechanism, it would be something along the lines of a process, which will get you out of the process,
i havnt found one yet. and ive been looking for 13 years. maybe i'll find it one day.

i think a more achievable aim is.....
a gradual shift from one state to the other.
engaging with things that stimulate the being, and gradually excluding things which are a continuation of......
patterns which you have been following, which are of no real use.
after a while you'll find that you will shift from a 'mind' based existence,
into a 'being' based experience.

so i dont think that overall, one absolutely has to walk a path for twenty years....
but nor do i believe (as things stand now) that it can be done instantly either.

i hope i havnt missed the point again!, this post wasnt easy.

cheers

Ultima Thule
22nd January 2013, 13:14
I guess the same logic could be applied: you can either start the car by ignition and battery power or you can mechanistically push it downhill, lift the clutch and the car starts.

Either way the car is started, you still have to drive it to a meaningful destination. I can relate to multiple points of entry in regards to personal development.

UT

Exactly UT, but do you thing it would be a faster approach to the target, than spending 20 years in seclusion??

regards

roman

Haven´t the faintest - although in the end I do see it very simply: one needs to come to the realization that he/she is ready and complete and has always been. Be it seclusion, never-ending life in meaningless business, addictions, what ever it is that may be needed to conclude the search for love in all the wrong places convincingly enough for the individual. I am ready being the key words. Emphasis not on the I, not on the ready, but on the am.
20130
20 years in seclusion with not a true moment of being vs. 20 years in modern day life with one true moment and the latter just might be enough - let´s make an argument that the former might provide with more probabilities to live those moments. That being said - and this is in no way directed at any particular religion or way of life - often there is a part of exclusion, be it social life, sexuality, food, or any type of relations whatsoever. That in my opinion is an odd thing - considering that something essential of the very life we live here are denied, and therefore I am very much open to the idea that a western mom or dad trying to make a living cannot be excluded from spiritual growth just because of their circumstances.

UT

greybeard
22nd January 2013, 13:20
Hi Roman
Adyashanti is having fast results--he claims hundreds of those who who come to his satsangs are now fully awakened.
When he started to teach many years ago he though it would be great to have one or two "students" become enlightened--- that was the norm--way back then.
Now it is accelerating --why!!!! because that's what's supposed to happen.
There is a transference of energy in the so called teacher/student relationship.
That can come through the Lester videos or reading Ramana.
Enlightenment---call it what you will, can only happen when the person is ready, what prepares the person is open to debate.
According to Eckhart Tolle we are entering a period of time when a change in the spiritual energy of the human race is absolutely necessary to the survival of "us".
Hence his book "A New Earth"
He says it is happening and its best to get out of the way----ie just allow it to happen----the ego wants to make things happen, that's the problem.

Adyashanti had to run up against his brick wall and realise that all his Zen practises could not get him "there"
Basically he had to admit defeat and accept that he could not make enlightenment happen.
The surrender was very deep and awakening happened very soon after that.
That was years ago---he is well worth investigating.

Im not taking away from Lester--the teaching is good --however I have not seen evidence that his students became enlightened though their life perspective benefited greatly. I suspect that mass enlightenment was not supposed to happen then.
I suspect that now the time is right for the ripe fruit to fall off the tree.

We have Eckhart Tolle appearing on TV to millions of people (Ophrah Winfery) Neale Donald Walsh sold 7million books translated into many languages.
To many teachers to mention having an impact--- Ask your selves--- why now?
In my early days of searching some 35 years ago---I knew no one on any path--no internet--only Indian books translated into English.
Then Yogananda "Auto-biography of a Yogi"
Eventually three visits to ashrams in India.
Then "The Power of Now" arrived that really opened the Western door.
Ordinary people getting interested in non religious spirituality.

We are on the crest of a wave that Lester and the likes of Dr Hawkins contributed greatly to. -- Dr Hawkins incidentally also lived in Sedona and worked with Lester for a while---

Chris

Rich
22nd January 2013, 13:29
Roman could you in 1 or 2 simple sentences explain what you are trying to do and the purpose behind it?
Also it seems to me, and I could be totally wrong with that assumption, that you are putting Carmody and Bob on a pedestal and trying to
get their approval and agreement on what you are trying to do, maybe this points to the fact that you are not sure about what you are
trying to accomplish in the first place?

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 13:29
Wow I am most grateful for that SKAWF, very well put and understandable, I see and understand exactly what you mean, I had thought I had found it after 15 years of searching, which has showed results to some degree for many people, the inner voice against the mind is understood, wish i could rear it above my overactive mind, I have always been hyper, and never done drugs, whist i did now. When in different circumstance in my life, had heard the other voice. Really thank for that my friend, that really helpful and very understandable for all of us, thank you SKAWF

warmest regards to you SKAWF

roman

By the way did you access the levenson method??

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 13:39
Hi Roman
Adyashanti is having fast results--he claims hundreds of those who who come to his satsangs are now fully awakened.
When he started to teach many years ago he though it would be great to have one or two "students" become enlightened--- that was the norm--way back then.
Now it is accelerating --why!!!! because that's what's supposed to happen.
There is a transference of energy in the so called teacher/student relationship.
That can come through the Lester videos or reading Ramana.
Enlightenment---call it what you will, can only happen when the person is ready, what prepares the person is open to debate.
According to Eckhart Tolle we are entering a period of time when a change in the spiritual energy of the human race is absolutely necessary to the survival of "us".
Hence his book "A New Earth"
He says it is happening and its best to get out of the way----ie just allow it to happen----the ego wants to make things happen, that's the problem.

Adyashanti had to run up against his brick wall and realise that all his Zen practises could not get him "there"
Basically he had to admit defeat and accept that he could not make enlightenment happen.
The surrender was very deep and awakening happened very soon after that.
That was years ago---he is well worth investigating.

Im not taking away from Lester--the teaching is good --however I have not seen evidence that his students became enlightened though their life perspective benefited greatly. I suspect that mass enlightenment was not supposed to happen then.
I suspect that now the time is right for the ripe fruit to fall off the tree.

We have Eckhart Tolle appearing on TV to millions of people (Ophrah Winfery) Neale Donald Walsh sold 7million books translated into many languages.
To many teachers to mention having an impact--- Ask your selves--- why now?
In my early days of searching some 35 years ago---I knew no one on any path--no internet--only Indian books translated into English.
Then Yogananda "Auto-biography of a Yogi"
Eventually three visits to ashrams in India.
Then "The Power of Now" arrived that really opened the Western door.
Ordinary people getting interested in non religious spirituality.

We are on the crest of a wave that Lester and the likes of Dr Hawkins contributed greatly to. -- Dr Hawkins incidentally also lived in Sedona and worked with Lester for a while---

Chris

wow Chris thank you for that, maybe it is time, as now, I believe thing are moving faster than I can keep up with, you will see, soon I will dump all this and get on with it.

thank you Chris, and warmest regards as ever

roman

SKAWF
22nd January 2013, 13:46
By the way did you access the levenson method??

nah. ive never heard of it before!

thanks Roman.

actually, regarding a mechanism....
it occurs to me that there was an experience i had

iit involved the subtle realisation that i had been....

in the right place, at the right time,
and i had done the right thing, the right way.

then i lept up in the air and shouted GOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLLL!!!!!!!.

that blew my head off. i did write about it shortly after i joined avalon. i'll dig out the post for ya.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 13:47
Roman could you in 1 or 2 simple sentences explain what you are trying to do and the purpose behind it?
Also it seems to me, and I could be totally wrong with that assumption, that you are putting Carmody and Bob on a pedestal and trying to
get their approval and agreement on what you are trying to do, maybe this points to the fact that you are not sure about what you are
trying to accomplish in the first place?

I wished to discuss/debate of using the mechanics that Levenson was projecting as to speed up what was already inside us, and not go through years of indoctrination, a traditional ways and process, with the releasing to the point that you would be close to jump over the line as one would say to full attainment.

sorry I hope you understood that, crap at explaining myself,

thank you and regards EmEx

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 13:54
By the way did you access the levenson method??

nah. ive never heard of it before!

thanks Roman.

sorry what i meant was had you read his 20 page read that I had put out last week http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54458-The-Most-Important-20-Page-Read-of-Your-Life-Ever would appreciate your honesty as a lot of people have shown interest, we all here need to know what you understand by what he says and there is also a link in the link I gave you where the first 6 short video explains everything to his method and his understanding

Most grateful, and warmest regards to you SKAWF

roman

SKAWF
22nd January 2013, 14:01
By the way did you access the levenson method??

nah. ive never heard of it before!

thanks Roman.

sorry what i meant was had you read his 20 page read that I had put out last week http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54458-The-Most-Important-20-Page-Read-of-Your-Life-Ever would appreciate your honesty as a lot of people have shown interest, we all here need to know what you understand by what he says and there is also a link in the link I gave you where the first 6 short video explains everything to his method and his understanding

Most grateful, and warmest regards to you SKAWF

roman


okay, i'll give it a read.

in the mean time, here is the post i referred to in my previous post.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11580-The-Key&p=110836&viewfull=1#post110836

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 14:05
By the way did you access the levenson method??

nah. ive never heard of it before!

thanks Roman.

sorry what i meant was had you read his 20 page read that I had put out last week http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54458-The-Most-Important-20-Page-Read-of-Your-Life-Ever would appreciate your honesty as a lot of people have shown interest, we all here need to know what you understand by what he says and there is also a link in the link I gave you where the first 6 short video explains everything to his method and his understanding

Most grateful, and warmest regards to you SKAWF

roman


okay, i'll give it a read.

in the mean time, here is the post i referred to in my previous post.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11580-The-Key&p=110836&viewfull=1#post110836

Yes thank you SKAWF

regards

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 14:21
well that's a wow of an experience, cannot relate to that though i understand what you are saying, amazing, can you then explain more of what you feel that this experience had finally left you with, as you seem to of had resolved all you issues.

Most grateful to you Steve, and really thank you, looking forward to you review on Levenson

Regards to you

roman

skippy
22nd January 2013, 14:47
Just one remark on the Lester material. The 20 page read is very good but the videos are even better... Very efficient explanation of beingness and the possibility of instant beingness.

Carmody
22nd January 2013, 16:27
Roman, it seems that you want to speedup, accelarate the process?

Yes skippy, as they say its already there, we just needed a method which I believe is easy to follow like levenson describes.

Thank you Skippy

Regards

roman

There is commonality in people, but there are still 7 billion marginally different beings here. Too fast is dangerous. Too slow is also dangerous. Each for different reasons.

Force or enforced commonality through a quick motion of near identical state or commonality... to some extent, potentially could be seen as a connection to lower dimensions.

Freedom ("Laissez-faire") and 'any path will get you there' is more from a higher dimensional or energetic space, compared to this middling space we are in.

Lower dimensions tend to have to take and force, in order to be, to evolve higher, as there is little in the way of higher organization. Starvation mode. Much closer to the infinity of connection as a ground state in nothingness, if intelligent organization of energies is the desire, the 'being' state.

Higher dimensions have manifold energy levels available, so energetic potential and condition in variance..is everywhere, so force does not really exist as concept or reality. much closer to the infinity of connection as a ground state in all or completeness, if intelligent organization of energies is the desire, the 'being' state.

Conversely....why would a lower dimensional being want your energies but NOT for you to have awareness...and the other.... to not want your energies but desire you to have awareness? One is in darkness, and emptiness/nothingness...and..the other is in completeness and light?

commonality is a zero differential state, so it is close to the nothingness and darkness as no difference is there, no intelligence. That an elevated energetic level of commonality, could be seen as a ground plane ....that an intelligence could emerge - from (to exist upon it, as a higher form, a complex resonance of energetic differential.... arising from that singular condition).

Difference is the core component of intelligence as it is required for development and 'to be'. White light is made up of all frequencies. After all, you can only climb stairs when they exist. That each step is a zig-zag of differential, in energies. Too big a change, too big a step...and you can't climb it.

Absence of light, or darkness..is made up of none (no light or energetic vibration).

As in all vibrations together, highest dimension.... and darkness, no vibrations, nothing.

All this, of course, as seen from this 3d linear time-space.. as an expression of either ...into this commonality of vibrations, aka..our universe or viewpoint.

hhhhmmmmm...

One way to see it.

sirdipswitch
22nd January 2013, 16:43
Go read what I posted on these two threads:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul


Just might be hangin somewhere up in that tree yer tryin to climb. chuckle chuckle.

:wizard:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ps: oops!! for roman of course.

Gardener
22nd January 2013, 17:37
Another way to look at it might be 'what's the hurry'? What is it in you that is pressing to quickly follow after Mr Levinson? Might his path be for some and not others, I think he might have already done a lot of the 'work' and make no mistake it is 'work'. What it seems like from my limited view currently is that you want it to be easily attainable by anyone. Yes? And yet it (the method) is still from another persons 'work'; a person with a different temperament, and frequency of beingness.

Before I came here I asked God for a magic wand, he said 'NO', I said 'why not?' he said 'because you would take away all the bad in the earth, then how would people learn'; ya cheesy I know but it helps me to realise who am I to think that.

I did watch some of the videos and read the 20 page doc.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 17:41
Roman, it seems that you want to speedup, accelarate the process?

Yes skippy, as they say its already there, we just needed a method which I believe is easy to follow like levenson describes.

Thank you Skippy

Regards

roman

There is commonality in people, but there are still 7 billion marginally different beings here. Too fast is dangerous. Too slow is also dangerous. Each for different reasons.

Force or enforced commonality through a quick motion of near identical state or commonality... to some extent, potentially could be seen as a connection to lower dimensions.

Freedom ("Laissez-faire") and 'any path will get you there' is more from a higher dimensional or energetic space, compared to this middling space we are in.

Lower dimensions tend to have to take and force, in order to be, to evolve higher, as there is little in the way of higher organization. Starvation mode. Much closer to the infinity of connection as a ground state in nothingness, if intelligent organization of energies is the desire, the 'being' state.

Higher dimensions have manifold energy levels available, so energetic potential and condition in variance..is everywhere, so force does not really exist as concept or reality. much closer to the infinity of connection as a ground state in all or completeness, if intelligent organization of energies is the desire, the 'being' state.

Conversely....why would a lower dimensional being want your energies but NOT for you to have awareness...and the other.... to not want your energies but desire you to have awareness? One is in darkness, and emptiness/nothingness...and..the other is in completeness and light?

commonality is a zero differential state, so it is close to the nothingness and darkness as no difference is there, no intelligence. That an elevated energetic level of commonality, could be seen as a ground plane ....that an intelligence could emerge - from (to exist upon it, as a higher form, a complex resonance of energetic differential.... arising from that singular condition).

Difference is the core component of intelligence as it is required for development and 'to be'. White light is made up of all frequencies. After all, you can only climb stairs when they exist. That each step is a zig-zag of differential, in energies. Too big a change, too big a step...and you can't climb it.

Absence of light, or darkness..is made up of none (no light or energetic vibration).

As in all vibrations together, highest dimension.... and darkness, no vibrations, nothing.

All this, of course, as seen from this 3d linear time-space.. as an expression of either ...into this commonality of vibrations, aka..our universe or viewpoint.

hhhhmmmmm...

One way to see it.

Again feel i need to use more of my intuition, but follow you concern and direction.

Most grateful to you Carmody and thank you.

warmest regards and apologies

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 17:44
Go read what I posted on these two threads:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul


Just might be hangin somewhere up in that tree yer tryin to climb. chuckle chuckle.

:wizard:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ps: oops!! for roman of course.

Thank you for that will most defiantly read it Sirdipswitch,

warmest regards and thank you

romam

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 17:53
Another way to look at it might be 'what's the hurry'? What is it in you that is pressing to quickly follow after Mr Levinson? Might his path be for some and not others, I think he might have already done a lot of the 'work' and make no mistake it is 'work'. What it seems like from my limited view currently is that you want it to be easily attainable by anyone. Yes? And yet it (the method) is still from another persons 'work'; a person with a different temperament, and frequency of beingness.

Before I came here I asked God for a magic wand, he said 'NO', I said 'why not?' he said 'because you would take away all the bad in the earth, then how would people learn'; ya cheesy I know but it helps me to realise who am I to think that.

I did watch some of the videos and read the 20 page doc.

Thanks Gardener, you are saying thing here that i cannot disagree with, I had mention in the other post that I don't follow anybody as such, and had in point of fact dumped as a follower in any way other than book and CD over a decade ago, but never forgot the simplicity that had taken me years after that to realize the psychology of the action taken by people doing it.

Thank you ans regards to you Gardener

roman

markpierre
22nd January 2013, 20:39
Have yourself buried up to the neck for three days and ensure that there is no option of escape.
That'll crack the code within a 1/2 hour, maybe an hour.
That's if you want fast.

Otherwise you'll have to settle for as long as it takes. That just might not be up to you.

whoosh that made me laugh, yes, that would be true, cant argue with that my friend, if only.

Thank you Markpierre makes all the sense

Regards

roman

What I'm really trying to say Roman, is that you are the divine. Lets use Sanskrit for a moment so we don't corrupt the meaning. You are a manifestation of the Divine.
Atman. Or better 'the' manifestation. You didn't cause yourself.
And you didn't cause yourself to lose your awareness of yourSelf because you didn't really, and you're not responsible to find what you think is missing.
And every change in you toward 'enlightenment' was a gift, and only to appease the thing that worries and sees lack.
Bear with me Roman, I need to remember this every day.
Because you are yourSelf. Not you in some other form or condition or some other state of mind. You right now as you sit. Doing what you're doing.
Every thought you have is divine. Every thought you share is divine. It's an authority problem. Authority isn't the gatherer and holder and dispenser of knowledge.
'You' are not the author of anything. 'You' are the deliverer of what is.
Whatever it looks like. Whatever it feels like. Whatever it comes to. Whatever the outcome.

You are responsible for one single thing, and you do this purely for yourself. The little self that needs to feel satisfied.
Patience with the real author, and trust in a perfect mind that knows exactly what it's doing. If it looks imperfect, you've forgotten.
Patience with yourself in your impatience. Impatience and discomfort are your friends. Your fuel.
And patience and trust in everyone and everything you see around you. You've judged it unworthy. Why do you do that?
Jesus said 'every moment in time is a tragedy', but it's also a choice.
Time is an aberration. A moment of refusal or not choosing. Patience isn't of time.

Bury yourself. Why not? It's only funny because no one will do it. Three days in the tomb will show you what's important.
They'll say they want to wake up, but won't do what it takes. They'll laugh at it because it is that hard to cross the barrier and they know it.
So they do it slowly instead, and draw out the pain. That's what's laughable.

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 21:00
Have yourself buried up to the neck for three days and ensure that there is no option of escape.
That'll crack the code within a 1/2 hour, maybe an hour.
That's if you want fast.

Otherwise you'll have to settle for as long as it takes. That just might not be up to you.

whoosh that made me laugh, yes, that would be true, cant argue with that my friend, if only.

Thank you Markpierre makes all the sense

Regards

roman

What I'm really trying to say Roman, is that you are the divine. Lets use Sanskrit for a moment so we don't corrupt the meaning. You are a manifestation of the Divine.
Atman. Or better 'the' manifestation. You didn't cause yourself.
And you didn't cause yourself to lose your awareness of yourSelf because you didn't really, and you're not responsible to find what you think is missing.
And every change in you toward 'enlightenment' was a gift, and only to appease the thing that worries and sees lack.
Bear with me Roman, I need to remember this every day.
Because you are yourSelf. Not you in some other form or condition or some other state of mind. You right now as you sit. Doing what you're doing.
Every thought you have is divine. Every thought you share is divine. It's an authority problem. Authority isn't the gatherer and holder and dispenser of knowledge.
'You' are not the author of anything. 'You' are the deliverer of what is.
Whatever it looks like. Whatever it feels like. Whatever it comes to. Whatever the outcome.

You are responsible for one single thing, and you do this purely for yourself. The little self that needs to feel satisfied.
Patience with the real author, and trust in a perfect mind that knows exactly what it's doing. If it looks imperfect, you've forgotten.
Patience with yourself in your impatience. Impatience and discomfort are your friends. Your fuel.
And patience and trust in everyone and everything you see around you. You've judged it unworthy. Why do you do that?
Jesus said 'every moment in time is a tragedy', but it's also a choice.
Time is an aberration. A moment of refusal or not choosing. Patience isn't of time.

Bury yourself. Why not? It's only funny because no one will do it. Three days in the tomb will show you what's important.
They'll say they want to wake up, but won't do what it takes. They'll laugh at it because it is that hard to cross the barrier and they know it.
So they do it slowly instead, and draw out the pain. That's what's laughable.

Thank you markpierre for that, you put it very nicely, the red Indians used many approaches similar to what you mention, until they returned with a gift, yes we are all different and still the same.

Regards markpierre and thank you

warmest regards

roman

ROMANWKT
22nd January 2013, 21:42
I would like to put Bobs copy of his thread, which is very useful knowleadge to your attainment, a must read. thank you Bob


How To Change

That which is not used becomes obsolete, whereas what is resisted is kept in the forefront of attention. Thus, the creative principle of change initially entails a thorough recognition and consequent discarding of old “tapes”, or storyline scripts, that we have used to assemble, reinforce, and perpetuate our sense of self, the one we have taken to be the central character — “me”. In other words, it involves identifying and then eliminating what doesn’t work.

To illustrate with one example, I spent a part of my professional career conflicted about living and working in the world, rather than isolated in some “spiritual” community, where I imagined I would be able to make more “progress” towards liberation. It was this very story I kept telling myself that robbed the life I was actually involved in of any power to awaken me, since I was always projecting the real work to be “elsewhere”. Of course, the more I reinforced my fixed idea, the more self-confirming it became. It was only when I was eventually able to recognize how I was seriously limiting myself by clinging to a narrow “either/or” position that I was finally able to discard the old presumptions and allow my present circumstance, whatever it might be, to serve as the fuel for real liberation.

Rather than waging a prolonged battle with this fictional entity we have created over the course of our lives, we can simply cease granting it any enduring and concrete reality by shifting our attention to awareness itself — in other words, shifting our attention to being aware of being aware, prior to the whole narrative and architecture of personhood, as well as the ensuing complication that artificial edifice implies.

This “house-cleaning” can be initiated by first developing the capacity for calm abidance in silence, where we can better inspect the subterranean elements of our psyche that have been driving behavior and affecting our relations without our conscious knowledge or consent.

From the detached vantage point provided by such stillness, we can then delve into our original motives that led to the creation of our current circumstances. Without clarity here, any effort to make substantial life changes that we might undertake will be tainted by old uninspected and chaotic influences, which will hamper our necessary one-pointedness, compounding our sense of frustration and inner division.

Once stabilized in the undistracted state, we can inquire: what is it that we most want, and what have we been doing to sabotage that original yearning? Old programming becomes obsolete when we cease investing in it, so it is wise to “empty the teacup” before filling it again with the fresh tea of projected changes.

Once clear about our motivation, and what we really want to achieve, combining sincere intent with undivided attention is the next step, and solidifying this combination through persistent reinforcement is the key to success. It is an uncompromising yoga in that respect, which requires steady devotion in order to reap results.

Furthermore, wedding our refreshed and awake intent to the “Cosmic Will” can help to insure that our motives remain pure and on-track. Such “union” is no obscure mystery, but really a matter of aligning thought-energy with the order of the universe. This can be done by us “stepping out of the way”, so to speak, and letting ourselves be lived by Love. After all, what other force in the universe would have our best interests at heart more than Love?

Letting oneself be lived does not mean that we must rely on some higher power outside of ourselves, however. On the contrary, to let go and embrace the unknown is most intimate, since it involves relaxing into full acceptance of the Love that we already are, and always have been. It is an act of genuine humility, without which, no real transformation is possible.

True humility is not a matter of humiliation, or humbling oneself before some external divinity, but entails the recognition that I do not really know what anything is. In fact, I exist in total state of not knowing, this is my fundamental condition, and so ego-mind has no place to plant a flag and turn my efforts at change into just another vanity project. It’s what real freedom is all about, in that respect, since there is nothing there to manipulate or corrupt.

Such humility is the red carpet to “getting back into our right mind”, in other words, but is only genuine when it is based on the recognition that all methods, schemes, and escape plans one has employed are destined to fail, as long as one is basing them on the presumed reality of a permanent and substantial person, a “me”.

From that place of not knowing, I can see things as they are, without the superimposition of provisional knowledge, beliefs, or conditioned programs, and it is only when we are able to see clearly that we are capable of making the changes in our attitudes and behavior that truly serve us and our relations.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54642-How-To-Change&p=620771&viewfull=1#post620771

SKAWF
23rd January 2013, 21:34
okay ive read the pdf.

i found a few things in there that i could relate too.
some parallels with my own life,
some real pearls of wisdom,
and a couple of inconsistancies.

i will say though that his, and my concept of mechanisms, are almost the same.

i think most peoples hang ups are as a result of things that happened in the past
and that most of our worries are about the future.... near or far.
so when he was in a position where he was told that his life as he knew it was over...
that would have wiped out most of his future worries,
leaving him firmly in 'the moment'.
and at that point he was able to look inward and reflect on past experiences.
learning to know your inner world is absolutely critical, and ive said that many times.

i was able to take the time to do a lot of inward reflection.
but for me it wasnt about turning negativity into love...
it was about going through memories of events that made me feel bad, until i no longer felt bad. restoring the balance.
i noticed that when i wasnt swayed by the positives or negatives of a situation,
the speed of my thinking increased, and i began to notice patterns in things.
like you can stare into a starry sky,
but its not until its speeded up that you get a sense that the earth is spinning around!

at this point i will point out an inconsistancy and perhaps something i dont quite agree with
being hurt by someone, and replacing a negative emotion, with a feeling of love is one thing....
but i dont see how you can counter a fear of death in the same way.
the two situations are different. both on the surface and principally. so a different tool is required imo.

and also, i do see what he was saying about the differences between loving, and being loved,
and i cant speak for his personal situation... but for me,
love is the energy, but the circuit is created by two people. (family, and maternally aside)
like, caring for the other, and placing there happiness above your own....
and having them feel the same way about you.
if happiness was only about loving someone, then unrequited love wouldnt feel half as bad!.

also, there wasnt nearly as much exploration with regards to telekenisis as the rest of it.

i read through it quite intently, often reading the same paragraph over and over.
i wouldnt usually have done that, but its clear that this writing has had a great effect on you.

i would say to be a bit eclectic with it.

as i say, there are some real good pearls in there. i will go through it again,
and post them into this thread. possibly not tonight though.

there is something to be aware of when reading things of that nature,
and its not that they are necessarily wrong.

an analogy would be....

two people heading towards disneyworld paris
one starts in glasgow, the other in bulgaria

even though both destinations are the same, the starting positions are different.
and so the journey will be different too. how effective would it be,
for the man in bulgaria, to give the man in glasgow directions on how to get there?
that said, if he were to send the guy in glasgow a course on how to drive a car, the advice would serve him well.

which is why i said about being eclectic with it all. eclectic means taking bits from all philosophies, that which is suitable for your own (or something)

if there were 8 locked doors between where you are now, and where you want to be,
i would say that levesons writing would unlock three or four of them.
the rest may involve you venturing into the unknown, on your own,
and scratching around in the darkness trying to find a light switch.

its hard mate.
NO ONE can do it for you, or even tell you how to do it all.
they can give you pointers, and little pearls which will help you along the way, but its a path you must forge alone.

otherwise its like wearing someone elses philosophy like a jacket.
(which is why those who follow eckhart tolle annoy me sometimes. they sound the same as each other! (not all of them, but most))

''can you then explain more of what you feel that this experience had finally left you with, as you seem to of had resolved all you issues.''

lol i wish.

i understand how things work.

i know that underneath everything is energy.
my imagination produces pictures... symbols of energetic principles.
sometimes on its own, sometimes under my direction.
if i interact with the symbolism, it has an effect on the underlying energetic principle.
like the imagination is an interface between my inner word and the energy around me.
i dont have to work things out. i get a flash of an image, which gives me all the info i need, in an instant. (light speed)

it causes problems sometimes. i get asked a question, i see a flash, and then i end up providing so much substance that people lose attention!

just to give a little insight........

1, my TV screen is twice the size of my laptop screen, but its twice as far away, so both screens appear to be the same size.

2, the sun is 400 times bigger than the moon, but its 400 times further away, so at an eclipse, both orbs appear to be the same size.

there the same principle manifests in two different situations.

i see images of the governing principles behind the myriad of things that exist
and i know the one governing principle which is found in EVERYTHING.
but its not words. its an image.

i gave priority to the imagination a long time ago.
the mind they implanted is still there, but it was demoted when i observed how it reacted once in a pub.
the slightest threat to my feelings and it was there suggesting that i do all sorts of stupid things.
i learned that i am not my mind. IT is just a program.
my being, observed its operation in action, and overuled it.

i still have a lot to learn

but my starting position now, is much much better than it was, and at least i know that i am definitely on the right path.

cheers

ROMANWKT
24th January 2013, 18:43
I am most grateful for that assessment Steve ( SKAWF ) here I may not fully agree on the stages, but seems a very thorough assessment, really wonderful Steve, thank you ever so much for your effort and putting yourself out.

Most grateful, and the warmest regards to you my friend

roman