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Arrowwind
22nd January 2013, 18:33
President Obama has signed 23 executive orders designed to address the problem of gun violence in America. The following are the items addressed:

Maybe we can pick these apart to determine what will work for the true benfit of the people and what will further infringe on civil liberties. Notice the last paragraph.. that is an opinion only, not from the president, or me...

Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius (http://www.forbes.com/profile/kathleen-sebelius/) and Duncan on mental health.

It does not appear that any of the executive orders would have any impact on the guns people currently own-or would like to purchase- and that all proposals regarding limiting the availability of assault weapons or large ammunition magazines will be proposed for Congressional action. As such, any potential effort to create a constitutional crisis—or the leveling of charges that the White House has overstepped its executive authority—would hold no validity.

SilentFeathers
22nd January 2013, 18:45
It's Feinsteins Bill we need to really be concerned about, I think she submitted it today?????

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

Arrowwind
22nd January 2013, 18:52
Yes,that too. But executive orders by pass congress. Here is what my congressman had to say about it today. Feinstein may not be getting the support that she would like, which ultimaltely may be very healthy for her.

Simpson’s Statement on Obama’s Gun Proposals

Idaho Congressman Mike Simpson released the following statement after the Obama administration unveiled a set of new gun proposals, including 23 separate executive orders.
“I haven’t yet had a chance to fully review the many executive orders President Obama signed today, but I have long been concerned about the use of executive orders to push forward proposals that should be considered in Congress,” said Congressman Mike Simpson. “I will take time over the coming days to fully review each of the executive orders and consider them with the Constitution and the concerns of my constituents foremost in my mind. I am not seeing any significant support among my constituents for new restrictions on gun rights nor am I seeing any momentum building in Congress for additional federal gun control measures.”

SilentFeathers
22nd January 2013, 18:58
These 23 "actions" really don't address banning anything, Obama's side kick Holder has the language and actions right as to be not violating the 2nd amendment....these critters are smart and crafty and are covering their butts so to speak. The Feinstien draft/bill will step on the 2nd amendment and cause all kinds of trouble in the house etc....that will be there power play.

I can't find anything on line to say if she did submit the bill today, I read something a week or so ago that the 22nd was the day, but perhaps their waiting for something....or the media may have been told to hush hush about it, who knows? huh

Rocky_Shorz
22nd January 2013, 19:33
sounds like Obama just did exactly what we were asking for...

Mental Health is now going to be covered...

CDC is going to be in charge of the National Database instead of Homeland Security... that is good...

Health professionals can now pass info on to Law enforcement...

He is not taking one gun away from normal citizens and taking it away from the lunatics...

hard to get angry over this move, and we're going to get engineers back to work tying together all of the medical databases...

Obamacare just added Mental Health to the coverage...

bankers will whine over costs, but the 1% is going to realize their communities are being shot up putting their kids in danger.

what's more important your big old pile of gold, or your children...

the choice should be a no brainer

Rocky_Shorz
22nd January 2013, 19:50
It's Feinsteins Bill we need to really be concerned about, I think she submitted it today?????

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

I wouldn't be too worried, Congress isn't capable of passing through an open door...

modwiz
22nd January 2013, 20:49
An open letter to Obama.

Utah Sheriffs Willing to Die to Protect Traditional Constitutional Interpretation


”But, make no mistake, as the duly-elected sheriffs of our respective counties, we will enforce the rights guaranteed to our citizens by the Constitution. No federal official will be permitted to descend upon our constituents and take from them what the Bill of Rights-in particular Amendment II-has given them.“ …Utah Sheriffs

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/01/22/sheriffs-open-letter-to-obama-lock-and-load-time/

The content of the letter reads thus:

7 January 2013
The Honorable Barack Obama, President of the United States of America
The White House. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW. Washington, DC 20500

Sheriffs are Proactive on gun control

Dear President Obama:
We, the elected sheriffs of Utah, like so many of our fellow Americans, are literally heartbroken for the loved ones of the murdered victims in Connecticut. As Utahans, we are not strangers to this kind of carnage, one of the latest being the 2007 Trolley Square murders wherein nine innocents were gunned down-five losing their lives.
We also recognize the scores of other recent domestic massacres, which have decimated countless honorable lives. As Americans, we value the sanctity of life. Furthermore, similar to our inspired Founders, we acknowledge our subservience to a higher power.
With the number of mass shootings America has endured, it is easy to demonize firearms; it is also foolish and prejudiced. Firearms are nothing more than instruments, valuable and potentially dangerous, but instruments nonetheless. Malevolent souls, like the criminals who commit mass murders, will always exploit valuable instruments in the pursuit of evil. As professional peace officers, if we understand nothing else, we understand this: lawful violence must sometimes be employed to deter and stop criminal violence.
Consequently, the citizenry must continue its ability to keep and bear arms, including arms that adequately protect them from all types of illegality.
As your administration and Congress continue to grapple with the complex issue of firearm regulations, we pray that the Almighty will guide the People’s Representatives collectively. For that reason, it is imperative this discussion be had in Congress, not silenced unilaterally by executive orders. As you deliberate, please remember the Founders of this great nation created the Constitution, and its accompanying Bill of Rights, in an effort to protect citizens from all forms of tyrannical subjugation.
We respect the Office of the President of the United States of America.
But, make no mistake, as the duly-elected sheriffs of our respective counties, we will enforce the rights guaranteed to our citizens by the Constitution. No federal official will be permitted to descend upon our constituents and take from them what the Bill of Rights-in particular Amendment II-has given them.
We, like you, swore a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and we are prepared to trade our lives for the preservation of its traditional interpretation.
The Utah Sheriffs’ Association

Arrowwind
22nd January 2013, 21:12
The ones I dont approve of and why:

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. this essentially will make your medical record available to federal agencies, not only make them available but make for mandetory reporting for if it is not madetory no doctor will do it. This will lead to the Federal government hanging over your every action if you have ever reported a mental health issue. This will required your physician to state if you are healthy or not... and you know what? He doesnt know jack****. this is the doorway to a full repression of the people by the government. Will this lead to forced treatment or assylum care by a physicain for he fears that if he doesnt treat he will be liable? Will you get the treatment of your choice? Will you be guarnateed drug therapy that is not toxic or dangerous?... and really #1 and #2 go hand in hand. This will all lead to a medical police state, such as we are developing in school systems... either parents medicate or lose their kids or go to jail, and the school gets rewarded for each prescription kid they have with a nice wad of money.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. In order for the AG to know who is capable of slipping through the cracks or not a file must be kept on everyone. That is their intent, I believe, for the federal governement to hold your most private and personal health history and make judgement on it, and potentially force you to medicate, jeopardize your work and so many other nasty outcomes.

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
this will put the feds into police issues on a local level and be another step towards federal administration of local and state law. States and counties have the right to administer and enforce law issues independent of federal interference. Local police should run such checks. Not Feds. I dont want those creeps in my county.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes
Its not a phsycicians business if I own a gun. It will turn the masses of people into liars if not criminals for nondisclousre.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. this is stupid and redundant. Health care professionals already know this.



23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius (http://www.forbes.com/profile/kathleen-sebelius/) and Duncan on mental health.
I am not against debate but this will only promote the use of more drugs since our mental health pardigm does not recognize that most mental health issues are due to abuse and to malnutrition. We all know that psychotropic pharmaceutical drugs, most come with black box warnings. At the very worst it will insitgate the removal of mentally ill from society again because they will find that their drugs do not alleviate mental illness sufficently to prevent the gun violence that it does cause. People will become stigmatized for a lifetime for what may be transient mental health issues.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence. If you have a backround in wholistic and alternative medicine and if you have spent any time on the CDC sites you will see that the reports are full of lies, ill founded, not based on true science, disregard nutrtion in the disease process and all out promote the use of vaccinations and many other dangerous drugs. How can we trust this CDC to be nonbiased when many of their ceo and other agents have worked for the FDA and pharmaceutical companies? This could lead to massive represssion of the people with drug therapy against their will or be faced with assylum care.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers. What is a school resource officer? Would they be better off hirering a nutritional consultant, and someone to detox heavy metals out of kids brains?

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
and what the hell is this?


This is asking for a full on police state. Many here on avelon have had mental health issues, and some are on drugs now. I'd like to hear what they think. In fact something like one in five adults take an antidepressant. Do all these people want their health history on a federal record?

SilentFeathers
23rd January 2013, 19:41
Feinstein to introduce assault weapons ban Thursday, January 24, 2013
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/feinstein-introduce-assault-weapons-ban-thursday-163138590--politics.html

Conchis
23rd January 2013, 20:02
Number 4 in the above hit parade of executive orders has the potential for great abuse. It asks the AG to review their definition of "dangerous people" to seek if they can tighten it up. There is a list now of folks that are on a "no fly" list. No one knows how you get on that list, but there is no way to get off it, once you're on. There is no review available to the listee. In short, it runs the risk of being arbitrary or politically motivated. This executive order could simply include all the folks on that other list...and voila....political enemies suddenly become either unarmed or criminals....

Carmody
23rd January 2013, 20:04
The DHS was created as a federal arm, like that of IRS, or FDA, FCC, and so on, so as to create a body that the president DOES have power over. That he elects heads to those outfits, and there is no oversight or control of that, like his choices for ambassadors.

That the DHS was created to give the president IMPERIALISTIC powers within the confines of the borders of the USA. The president decides who runs it.

Which is how the other federal offices and organizations have been corrupted.

The best scenario possible for disruptive plans to be put into effect. The new head is appointed and then they can infiltrate the organization and take it over, from that top position, by harassing long term civil servants who are there for the people, not the agenda.

This is how Bush Junior did it. He went out of his way to violate as many of those offices as he could, with high level plants, and then those plants destroyed as much of the long term civil servant employees as possible and to insert ticks and parasites in those high level management positions within those offices and departments... that where to remain and then control,and spread like disease in the given federal offices. that those plants created by the new head of the given department, could not be removed by any new head of the given department, that any following president may place there instead.

To know who was with Obama and who was against, was to look who was replaced in those 70 odd federal departments, as Obama came into the presidential offices in 2008.

THAT is the trail of blood in the war for the control of the USA. if you know where it is, then you can see it happening.

Then you look at the connections of those who where in there as placed by Bush Junior,and then the connections of who was replaced, and who was coming in as Obama appointees, then you can actually see who is who and what is what, for the first time.

Carmody
23rd January 2013, 20:14
"Subservience to a higher power?" (In the letter from the sheriffs)

This is why the puritans where kicked out of the UK, back in the day, and where sent on to the new land of the Americas. they where bug fornicate crazy. That their capacity to live and realize by shades of grey instead of black and white viewpoints..simply was not there. That this made them dangerous and impossible to deal with - in an integrated society. That this is still going on as an undercurrent, unabated ... and sometimes..unrealized. Still not dealt with.

That this black and white positioning and living is important in some conditions and ways, but very dangerous in others.

That one may agree with the direction they are driving in, but one may not be onboard for the exact same reasons and thinking.

ThePythonicCow
23rd January 2013, 22:50
This is how Bush Junior did it.
And Clinton before him, as noted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49051-Millions-Against-Monsanto&p=544905&viewfull=1#post544905).

Carmody
25th January 2013, 03:56
taken from a post I made elsewhere:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As similar to the US gun issue.

Highest murder rate per capita in the 'civilized world', they scream.

Yes a hair higher than Canada, it is... and higher than a few other countries. And the approximate 100 countries with higher 'per capita murder by gun rates'...all of them have 100% bans on guns! Yet their death by guns is off the scale in comparison.

The surprising part is that the murder rate is so LOW considering how many guns are in people's possession. Incredibly so. Not one nation on the planet can touch the LOW death rate when crossed by the number of guns per capita, except for maybe, oh... Canada and Switzerland. Maybe.

That if one runs the 'Guns Per capita of the USA' against the 'murder by gun per capita'..that the USA is the clear winner in the citizens controlling themselves and controlling their weapons. To be using and possessing guns as safely as responsibly as is possible.

From what I understand of it....that no other nation can even come close to the USA citizens behaving themselves ---with guns in their possession. None. Zip. Nada.

This is the fundamental point that needs be raised, in the issue of 'gun control.'

That the USA already is the most responsible country on the planet, when it comes to gun ownership.

Hervé
25th January 2013, 04:38
Although the following is coming from "Before It's News," the study seems to be legit:

Essential Gun Charts And Facts No Matter Which Side Of Firearms Control You Support (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:12

(Before It's News) (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
The guiding gun control legislation in the United States is the Gun Control Act 1968 (this is Federal legislation only: each US state and territory enacts its own gun law).

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000. The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.8 firearms per 100 people.

The defense forces of the United States are reported to have 3,054,553(3 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)) firearms. Police in the United States are reported to have 897,400(4) (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html) firearms.

World’s Highest 25: Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
http://www.gunpolicy.org//images/gpo/charts/1306297968FC_World_s_Highest_25___Rate_of_Civilian_Firearm_Possession_per_100_Population.PNG
Credit: GunPolicy.org

World’s Highest 25: Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People
http://www.gunpolicy.org//images/gpo/charts/1306297044FC_World___s_Highest_25___Rate_of_Gun_Homicide_per_100_000_People.PNG
Credit: GunPolicy.org

High Income Countries: Rate of Unintentional Gun Death per 100,000 People

http://www.gunpolicy.org//images/gpo/charts/1306300275FC_High_Income_Countries___Rate_of_Unintentional_Gun_Death_per_100_000_People.PNG
Credit: GunPolicy.org

High Income Countries: Rate of Gun Suicide per 100,000 People

http://www.gunpolicy.org//images/gpo/charts/1306300275FC_High_Income_Countries___Rate_of_Unintentional_Gun_Death_per_100_000_People.PNG
Credit: GunPolicy.org

In the United States, annual firearm homicides total

2009: 9,146 7 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)
2008: 9,484 10 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)7 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,659 7 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)
2002: 9,369 11 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,259 6 (http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=6078389722268452220)
1998: 9,257

Credit: GunPolicy.org

In the United States, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is
2009: 2.98 5 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html) 7 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
2008: 3.12
2007: 3.36
2006: 3.42
2005: 3.43
2004: 3.20
2003: 3.3 7 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
2002: 3.25 11 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
2001: 3.12
1999: 2.97 6 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)
1998: 3.37
1993: 7.07 12 (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/12/essential-gun-charts-and-facts-no-matter-which-side-of-firearms-control-you-support-2476996.html)

Credit: GunPolicy.org

Table 1.3: Ranking of world’s small arms producers [by sales]

1) Major producers: China, Russia, United States;

2) Medium producers: Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Germany, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, United Kingdom;

3) Small producers: Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Indonesia, Japan, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Thailand, Ukraine, Venezuela, Yugoslavia;

4) Unassessed producers (Inadequate information currently available to permit ranking): Albania, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cuba, Cyprus, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Guatemala, Guinea, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Myanmar, Nigeria, North Korea, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Sudan, Syria, Tanzania, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Vietnam, Zimbabwe.

Source cited: Appendix 1.1



The Small Arms Survey 2012: Moving Targets looks at what is changing, and not changing, in relation to armed violence and small arms proliferation. Chapters on firearm homicide in Latin America and the Caribbean, drug violence in selected Latin American countries, and non-lethal violence worldwide illustrate that security is a moving target; armed violence continues to undermine security and well-being around the world. The goal of curbing small arms proliferation, embodied in the UN Programme of Action, appears similarly elusive. Chapters on illicit small arms in war zones, trade transparency, Somali piracy, and the 2011 UN Meeting of Governmental Experts highlight some of the successes and challenges in this area. Country studies examine Kazakhstan and Somaliland. The final installment of the authorized transfers project looks at the total value of exports and imports globally, including small arms and light weapons, ammunition, and parts and accessories.
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/publications/by-type/yearbook/small-arms-survey-2012.html