Zeitgeist

[Youniverse]

Hello all my Avalon friends! I finally got around to watching the Zeitgeist Trilogy. Quick question, could anyone give me an updated and accurate number for current Zeitgeist members worldwide? I'd be very interested to know that.

I agree with and support much of what the creators of the movement are saying. I share their vision of what is possible once we get certain structures from the 'old world' and 'old paradigm' out of the way. I embrace the Zeitgeist Movement, not because they offer a perfect alternative(as Jacque Fresco says), rather, because the system they have to offer is much superior in many respects to the one we currently experience. For me, the Venus Project is a good starting template for a new society, and a new type of human being.

In my opinion, there are just a few tweaks to be made in the system they offer. I believe they should instill more balance between science and spirituality. For me, the new culture they present is heavily dependant on science, with a few passing remarks regarding spirituality. Don't get me wrong, I love science and I am totally on board with implementing an uncorrupted scientific approach to many of the problems we face. However, I believe Einstein even said that religion without science is absurd and science without religion is meaningless, or something along those lines. Coupled with the fact that there is a great wealth of evidence these days for a great deal of spiritual phenomena. Therefore I would have liked to hear more acknowledgement of this fact, by the zeitgeist creators. If a much greater number of people put their focus into investigating the paranormal much more closely and sincerely, I believe many solutions to current problems would be discovered.

Another issue I want to point out is the case they make for the non-existence of Jesus Christ. I understand a lot of what they are saying here, though the evidence they provide does not come close to disproving the existence of Jesus. More importantly, it is what Jesus taught people that is important. The same goes for all the other spiritual teachers, past and present. So to say that the Bible is an "Astrotheological Literary Hybrid," in my opinion is irrelevant to the messages it provides. I know that some of Christ's teachings were conveniently left out of the Bible and much of what he said has been distorted over time so that the current understanding retains little or none of the meaning originally intended. However, there are still little glimpses of the truth within the Bible that should not be discounted. The fact that some rulers have used truth or the power of faith to manipulate the masses does nothing to invalidate what was originally said by these great teachers. Truth is truth(even if it is relative truth in a dualistic world) and truth does not care who agrees with it.

There are a couple other things I'd like to see this movement adress more fully, such as disclosure of covered up technologies and the existence of Extra-terrestrials. Again, these are minor adjustments in something that, as it is, inspires a great deal of hope for humanity. And with the kind of truly scientific philosophy that Jacques Fresco purports, there would always be freedom for adjustments and reform to be made, when new insights and new understandings appear. Please share with me any comments or questions you may have regarding what I just said, or about the Zeitgeist Movement in general. Thank-you and all opinions are appreciated!

[grannyfranny100]

Ah yes, gather everyone up in the same boxes like a factory farm of chickens. I would prefer to be a free range chicken. Gone would be diversity- small towns, big cities, rural farms, mountain retreats and desert abodes but with implants I guess we all could be drugged to "like" a homogenized existence with a hive like mind set. Get past all the glitz of the proposal before you buy into this transhumanistic concept.

[Youniverse]

Thanks very much for your post! That's exactly the kind of comment I was looking for! A great point about diversity. I understand very well the importance of diversity. So if the afformentioned system could not allow for enough of that I would be against it. Do the Zeitgeist people ever mention anything about putting implants into people? I thought that was one of the things they were railing against in the videos. As for the "hive-like mindset," I can see how that would be undesirable if I get your meaning right. My intent here is not to endorse Zeitgeist or the Venus Project as if it were the only positive alternative. I merely said there were many positive aspects to it. Now, if someone were still trapped in an individualistic mindset that keeps them feeling seperate(the root cause of much of our failures) from everyone else, I could see how living a much more integrated lifestyle could be seen as negative. How has seeing ourselves as seperate and isolated served us thus far? Take a closer look at the tribal way of life that served humans very well(and in a much more healthy and sustainable way) for thousands of years. Those tribal people believed very strongly in diversity to the point that they did not attempt or desire to convert anyone from another tribe into theirs. And at the same time there was a great deal of cohesion and co-operation within each tribal pod. Couldn't that be somehow applied to the Venus Project? One could also say our current culture lacks diversity when you take a closer look at the values. It is built right into the system we currently have to discourage dissent. How's that for diversity?

[Hughe]

Beautifully packaged enslavement of future humanity! Well done.

Centralized grid system in cities are disaster. And renewable energy - wind, solar, geothermal, hydro - won't be able to support modern civilization's energy demand. Renewable energy technologies have great limitation. It requires huge resource investment, vulnerable against natural disasters. It is a fine example of the manipulation of TPTB.

My humble answer for humanity is real Free Energy technologies and Permaculture. They do not want it. The rich people, corporations ignore it because everybody will be rich and live in prosper with labor of less than 20 hours per week.
Slavery labor of working class to survive become history. Small community will generate own clean energy, clean and fresh food right from the Nature with zero chemicals.

Transportation of massive amount of goods becomes obsolete. Because humans already developed replication technology like all life forms do, i.e. 3D Printing. Comparing E-Book to 3D Printer is a stick to a airplane. What 3D Printing does is if the user wants to buy a chair, he/she just downloads a design file, which contains building instruction and data of chairs in 3D. Upload the file and turn on the 3D Printer, it starts printing a real chair on a plane. You can check 3D printing videos on Youtube.

One of scientists who created 3D Printing technology.
iMhG4fWQnlE

3D Printers were $30,000+ per unit. Nowadays 3D Printers in Open Source projects cut the price down below $1,000. I'm pretty sure companies are getting pissed off in big time because they might go bankruptcy sooner or later. I love it how this is coming. Any physical objects in 3D world theoretically can be built by 3D Printing: a cup, bottle, chair, toys, house, computer, airplane, and etc.

[write4change]

If all the above comments of negativity were not true--this problem remains. If one of those cities were built right now and given to 50 thousand people; they still could not make it work. We no longer have any experience living co operatively. Having lived 45 days with occupy LA I can tell you that co operation or considering the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few does not fly in our society.

[DeDukshyn]

If all the above comments of negativity were not true--this problem remains. If one of those cities were built right now and given to 50 thousand people; they still could not make it work. We no longer have any experience living co operatively. Having lived 45 days with occupy LA I can tell you that co operation or considering the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few does not fly in our society.

This is exactly the issue our own global cultural evolution has to address. If we continue in the direction of the ego driven "me first" attitude, we are sucked down a downward spiral to hell. This happening now. At some point we are going to say, "hey, this isn't working" -- and whether correction is from the top down or bottom up, it doesn't really matter. What I am saying is that we will be forced into this inevitably, the variable is at what point on the spiral do things change.

Call me an optimist, I guess ;)

[Youniverse]

Beautifully packaged enslavement of future humanity! Well done.

Centralized grid system in cities are disaster. And renewable energy - wind, solar, geothermal, hydro - won't be able to support modern civilization's energy demand. Renewable energy technologies have great limitation. It requires huge resource investment, vulnerable against natural disasters. It is a fine example of the manipulation of TPTB.

My humble answer for humanity is real Free Energy technologies and Permaculture. They do not want it. The rich people, corporations ignore it because everybody will be rich and live in prosper with labor of less than 20 hours per week.
Slavery labor of working class to survive become history. Small community will generate own clean energy, clean and fresh food right from the Nature with zero chemicals.

Transportation of massive amount of goods becomes obsolete. Because humans already developed replication technology like all life forms do, i.e. 3D Printing. Comparing E-Book to 3D Printer is a stick to a airplane. What 3D Printing does is if the user wants to buy a chair, he/she just downloads a design file, which contains building instruction and data of chairs in 3D. Upload the file and turn on the 3D Printer, it starts printing a real chair on a plane. You can check 3D printing videos on Youtube.

One of scientists who created 3D Printing technology.
iMhG4fWQnlE

3D Printers were $30,000+ per unit. Nowadays 3D Printers in Open Source projects cut the price down below $1,000. I'm pretty sure companies are getting pissed off in big time because they might go bankruptcy sooner or later. I love it how this is coming. Any physical objects in 3D world theoretically can be built by 3D Printing: a cup, bottle, chair, toys, house, computer, airplane, and etc.

Yes I'm familiar with 3D printing. As I said I only just watched the Zeitgeist films so many of you may have looked into it in more depth than I have. From first glance it didn't appear to be "enslavement of humanity to me," or connected to TPTB. I figured zeitgeist was very much in opposition to TPTB. As I also said in my intro., I'm sure there are many suppressed technologies that could be harnessed, and the zeitgeist people don't seem to mention those.

[Youniverse]

If all the above comments of negativity were not true--this problem remains. If one of those cities were built right now and given to 50 thousand people; they still could not make it work. We no longer have any experience living co operatively. Having lived 45 days with occupy LA I can tell you that co operation or considering the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few does not fly in our society.

Very good point! This is where the often over-looked possibility(or often dismissed because of several factors) of a critical mass of awakened individuals that catalyze rapid transformation throughout humanity comes into play. None of these plans for a 'higher society' will work if enough people don't wake up. Saying it can't be done is creating limitations that don't need to be made and stopping any significant progress right in its tracks. Though maybe it IS as some folks say, armageddon has to happen before there's a clean slate to start from scratch. That's just another belief, however, that keeps people locked into one type of reality.

[Youniverse]

If all the above comments of negativity were not true--this problem remains. If one of those cities were built right now and given to 50 thousand people; they still could not make it work. We no longer have any experience living co operatively. Having lived 45 days with occupy LA I can tell you that co operation or considering the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few does not fly in our society.

This is exactly the issue our own global cultural evolution has to address. If we continue in the direction of the ego driven "me first" attitude, we are sucked down a downward spiral to hell. This happening now. At some point we are going to say, "hey, this isn't working" -- and whether correction is from the top down or bottom up, it doesn't really matter. What I am saying is that we will be forced into this inevitably, the variable is at what point on the spiral do things change.

Call me an optimist, I guess ;)

I totally agree! But for me I'd prefer to do everything I can to avoid the abyss, instead of what many folks seem determined to do, and that's to wait till absolutely everything is crumbling before them and then start to make big changes. Too late at that point, at least in this incarnation.

[Taurean]

I sometimes wonder if places like Dubai aren't trial runs of venus project type future cities, especially given the remote location.

[Youniverse]

I understand that the Venus Project or Zeitgeist is far from perfect. I am much more interested in ideas that offer solutions than the usual criticizing and complaining that goes on in so many places. The zeitgeist/venus project at least addresses some of the major isuues we have right now on this planet. Ultimately, what will work will not be imposed on anybody, rather there will be a consensus realization and understanding of what MUST be, in order for humanity to live a quality existence for all in a sustainable way. What we have now is not sustainable. It's been tried over and over again over the last seven thousand years and each time it crumbles. Sumeria, Egypt, Greece, Rome, all collapsed due to insane cultures and guess who's next on the chopping block?

[grannyfranny100]

Youniverse, Venus Project/ Zeitgeist have split up. Only two people had the authority to approve or disapprove new ideas and changes. It is just another example of top down leadership which is the way of our world as it is now.

What seems to be evolving now in other areas of the economy is exemplified by free energy. Because technology is currently hidden behind the closed doors of black ops, free energy inventors seem to be turning to licensed plans to build your own. This model is closer to an organic, grassroots model of evolution. Let communities evolve and decide what works to suit there needs as decided in locally based groups.

Thanks to the internet, outstanding ideas will spread and be implemented in other communities. Eventually this may lead to a human commonality over the coming decades. If it does, the decision will be the result of consensus building and first hand experience rather than a top down egotism imposed on the masses.

[frozen alchemy]

Ah yes, gather everyone up in the same boxes like a factory farm of chickens. I would prefer to be a free range chicken. Gone would be diversity- small towns, big cities, rural farms, mountain retreats and desert abodes but with implants I guess we all could be drugged to "like" a homogenized existence with a hive like mind set. Get past all the glitz of the proposal before you buy into this transhumanistic concept.

Where does it say in any of the Zeitgeist literature that you'll be herded up, drugged, implanted and stuck into a box in a circle city? (And if you think about it, that's not too different than what most cities are like today...only add in working most of your life to pay for your enslavement). The whole concept of a technologically advanced society based on actually THINKING about where you are, what your resources are, and not polluting your environment, means that you'll be able to live where you want. It's far more Earthship and far less high rise condos. That being said, the whole idea of a well planned city with nearby (walkable) health, research, educational, cultural and food resources right nearby has a lot of appeal. Especially if over time that is accomplished with full employment (say, 20 hours a week, traded for a lot of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and allowing people to work at what they are best at, or truly interested in, rather than simply 'a job' that may not suit them at all...).

Really, it does no one any good to dismiss any new ideas with such rhetoric. No one in the ZM is saying that you have to live in a certain place in a certain way. And many people prefer city living to more rural modes; although I'm not one of them.

ZM's current membership, last I checked, was around 5 million people; the various ZM movies have over 100 million views, and there's a wealth (heh) of material on their website, all offered for free, as is membership, translation services, engineering ideas, global idea collaboration, etc. The site has become massive in the last few years and would take a like amount of time to read through and understand. They have hundreds of chapters in dozens of countries in over 30 different languages, all built on volunteer labor by people who truly see this new way of organizing civilization (a truly civilized society, unlike what we have now) as our only hope to save the planet from overconsumption based on the profit motive and competition. Fresco and Joseph parted ways a few years back when Fresco decided to set up a fundraiser to make a movie; Joseph wanted to keep the movement clear of the money paradigm; there was also issues with Fresco becoming a bit of a broken record with regards to his city designs and being unwilling or unable at his advanced age to look at the bigger picture Peter Joseph was working on. I hear they've reconciled of late, but the truth is, one is in his 30s, the other is in his 90s, and they are thinking along different lines.

We are obviously going to have to do things differently, we are currently wallowing in our own waste products. If you check out the physics and engineering sections of the ZM as well as various on line magazines, you will find that technology offers lots of fixes for many of our current dilemmas; many have been available for decades but have not been implemented because of our present profit-motive paradigm. Money trumps everything in this system, and this makes by default a few 'winners' and massive amounts of 'losers'.

Please research the idea more if you have any interest whatsoever. It is the height of arrogance to throw out a comment like that quoted above, and a gross misrepresentation.

As far as (christian) religion goes, please remember that 'sun worshippers' down through the ages far outnumber 'son worshippers' and when you think about it, makes a lot of sense when you consider what supports all life on the planet. I personally think that worrying about where everything came from at the first second of creation is a losing battle intellectually. We will probably never know and 'believing' something doesn't make it true.

And if you're going to be a christian religious person, I don't see where you get to pick and choose which parts of the bible you pay attention to, and which parts you conveniently ignore; the bible commands you to kill whole villages if one person in them doesn't believe as you do; that you stone your own children for 'talking back' to you; allows slavery and mass murder on a grand scale, etc and so forth. In fact, the murder count of the god in the bible is millions of people. If I remember correctly, Satan was only responsible for the deaths of a few... Which god are you worshipping? The psychopath in the Old Testament, or the new improved nice daddy version in the New Testament? What does this say about the early writers of the so-called Word of God? Why did this all-knowing god not know about, say, germ theory, or electricity, or basic astronomy? In fact, this god knew nothing that wasn't known to the most illiterate subsistence farmer of the day.

The truth of the matter is that in the Middle Ages, the religious hierarchy rewrote the bible, eliminated whole sections of testimony and writing, and reworked it to create a power base that benefited themselves and enslaved the commoners with fear. Anyone who takes an honest step backwards and really looks at current religion (and separates it out emotionally and mentally from the human need for 'spiritual feelings') will see that an atheist only believes in one less god than they do, we are all atheists about other, dead religions, and it's all a con job. The Vatican's coverup of pedophile priests and incredible wealth holdings only serve to prove it.

Obviously, don't get me started... :wizard:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/