The Fraud of CFL Light Bulbs

[Arrowwind]

If you fell for it like I did you have a house full of CFLs
It might pay to throw them in the trash ( better recycle)and return to incandescent bulbs

Im not bringing all the links here that document the studies done but you can find it on this permies (permaculture) forum page

http://www.richsoil.com/CFL-fluorescent-light-bulbs.jsp#cfl

[ThePythonicCow]

Im not bringing all the links here that document the studies done but you can find it on this permies (permaculture) forum page

http://www.richsoil.com/CFL-fluorescent-light-bulbs.jsp#cfl

Good article - thanks.

I've started replacing my CFL's with LED's. I definitely notice that there is a high rate of burnout in places where the CFL's are turned on/off frequently ... so I will soon have used up my stock of CFL's. LED's are not a good choice in enclosed fixtures, such as ceiling lights inside glass enclosures, of which I have quite a few, as the LED's need some open air access to stay cool. However I recently read an article (sorry, can't find now) that upcoming LED technology will generate quite a bit less heat, so be usable in enclosed fixtures. For now, I'm just leaving the glass enclosure off where I have LED's in those ceiling fixtures.

A search for "3 Pack of Samsung 40-Watt Equivalent Indoor Warm White LED Light Bulb, Dimmable, A19, 10W 550 Lumens" will find the LED bulb I'm using the most, available at a cost of less than $15 per bulb.

[Anchor]

Fortunately LED lighting is getting cheaper, and I think this will enable people to have low energy lighting without all the mercury and environmental problems.

Unless that is, there is something in LED's we've not been told about.

[Ammit]

Fantastic thread, thank you for posting it.

[WhiteFeather]

None in my house. I started a thread on this as well awhile back. You get what you pay for. I wasnt falling for it. Free bulbs. Thanks
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?28341-CFL-LightBulbs-The-Dirty-Electricity

[Spirithorse]

I'm glad that the dangers of these CFL bulbs are being exposed more and more. Whenever I see one in somebody's home I try to share information (videos/ articles). Some people are completely shocked to hear about the health implications and wonder why such things are being pushed.... (that's when I gently slip in David Icke... and the bigger picture... :-)

Personally, no such bulb has ever entered my home, I also kindly rejected the free ones...and that was even before I had any idea about how dangerous they are. I simply didn't like their awful dull light.
Just last week I got a new video sent, from ECETI it was, I think. Very informative and aired on German Television as it seems.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0x3rbHFwQU

[Arrowwind]

Funny I came upon this yesterday. I've never really looked into CFL and what they are about. A couple of weeks ago I had purchased a pack of 75w incandescents for a specific use and we also purchased our firstm2 LED bulbs to give a try as I was skeptical because the CFLs had performed so poorly... I think they really count on you losing the receipt to bring them back. Now Im ready to make a full switch but we have no way to recycle CFLs where I live. Does anyone know where I can take them when I go to the city?

[Spirithorse]

Funny I came upon this yesterday. I've never really looked into CFL and what they are about. A couple of weeks ago I had purchased a pack of 75w incandescents for a specific use and we also purchased our firstm2 LED bulbs to give a try as I was skeptical because the CFLs had performed so poorly... I think they really count on you losing the receipt to bring them back. Now Im ready to make a full switch but we have no way to recycle CFLs where I live. Does anyone know where I can take them when I go to the city?

Here in England, we have household recycling plants where people can take their (separated) waste to. They also have a section that accepts hazardous waste, such as used batteries, paint and chemical leftovers, and as well as these damned light bulbs. Unfortunately I can't say anything about the US is this regard.

The really worrying aspect for me is that many people might not know about the dangers or simply don't bother, chucking broken or burned out bulbs strait in the bin. Eventually they end up in landfills and the mercury in the ground water.

[Spiral]

Here in France there are halogen bulbs, that look like an old tungsten bulbs with a a car headlight bulb inside, they work fine.

[Arrowwind]

[The really worrying aspect for me is that many people might not know about the dangers or simply don't bother, chucking broken or burned out bulbs strait in the bin. Eventually they end up in landfills and the mercury in the ground water.

I remember how we use to play with mercury on the desk in science class rolling it into little balls all over the place with our bare hands and once while I was on the 12 floor of an apartment building in NYC with the window open a ball of mercury flew in the window and landed on the bed. It was bigger than the head of a pin. Think of how smart we could have been.

Many places in the USA still dont have recycling.

[Laurel]

There are many valid reasons why fluorescent lamps are used in commercial applications. In the past year, the shift to LED has started to take hold. With LED technology improving literally everyday, it's getting specified on new and retrofit projects in lieu of fluorescent.

There are still so many bugs with LED technology being worked out, but it's getting there. For instance, I have more than a couple hospital projects having major issues with LED due to 277V driver issues and interference from the high frequency signals from hospital equipment ... yeah I know, put in a RF filter, but I think it's more complicated than that). Bottom line is it's getting there but is a learning experience.


On the other hand, I think residential applications are another story. I can't stand using CFL's in homes and don't use them in mine. Yes, there are the hazardous issues. Also, regardless of the color temperature, the light always looks harsh and flat in my opinion. There's absolultey no sparke.

I highly recommend using incandescent lamps and a dimmer. If you dim down 10%, you will double the life of your lamp. I believe dimming to 50% extends the lamp life by 20x (don't quote me but that's what I remember). From what I know so far, the 60W A19 lamps are not being discontinued in the US... just the higher wattage.

I'm still not a fan of LED in the house (except for one amazing, kickass undercabinet fixture that I have). Unless you're using a LED downlight in a ceiling that's difficult to access (like a high ceiling where it's a pain to change the lamp), I don't think the cost savings are there yet for the homeowner. And like I said above, the technology keeps improving every single day. What I'm talking about are light fixture with built-in LED modules (not the screw-in retrofit lamps that you buy at the store).

As for the retrofit LED lamps, I don't have enough experience with them to vote for or against. I know that Lighting Science Group makes a few that are very high quality. You get what you pay for. I don't know how the cheaper LED retrofit lamps compare.


Regarding disposal of fluorescent lamps, try calling your city office. They should be able to tell you the closest disposal location.

[Flash]

Im not bringing all the links here that document the studies done but you can find it on this permies (permaculture) forum page

http://www.richsoil.com/CFL-fluorescent-light-bulbs.jsp#cfl

Good article - thanks.

I've started replacing my CFL's with LED's. I definitely notice that there is a high rate of burnout in places where the CFL's are turned on/off frequently ... so I will soon have used up my stock of CFL's. LED's are not a good choice in enclosed fixtures, such as ceiling lights inside glass enclosures, of which I have quite a few, as the LED's need some open air access to stay cool. However I recently read an article (sorry, can't find now) that upcoming LED technology will generate quite a bit less heat, so be usable in enclosed fixtures. For now, I'm just leaving the glass enclosure off where I have LED's in those ceiling fixtures.

A search for "3 Pack of Samsung 40-Watt Equivalent Indoor Warm White LED Light Bulb, Dimmable, A19, 10W 550 Lumens" will find the LED bulb I'm using the most, available at a cost of less than $15 per bulb.

I have the upcoming LED technology in my living room and my office. The light are in the ceiling. They emit about no heart and do not burn up. I have 13 feet ceilings and was real fed up of changing the ilghts having to take the ladder, etc. In the basement, my office, the ceilings are low, there is a lot of artificial light because I hate working in badly lit places, and the heat was not very good, too much, in summer. Also, the regular lights would always burn from our walking on the floor above

Canadian cost more like 30$. They worth it..

[Dennis Leahy]

Great thread, Arrowwind.

I bought CFLs, found they did not last anywhere near as long as stated, and found they are not designed to work in enclosures. Then one day, my wife dropped one on a tile floor, and I asked her and my daughter to stay away from it - let me research it and clean it up. I knew there is a teeny tiny bit of mercury inside...

Well, a quick trip to a few websites, and I realized I was dealing with hazardous material. It can't be vacuumed or your vacuum will be spewing mercury forever. It can't be simply swept up with a broom, or else your broom will distribute mercury forever. Once you do clean it up (with a wet paper towel, moving slowly so you don't waft it into the air), you are now faced with the problem of just exactly what to do with it. Putting it into the trashcan is illegal (and immoral, and ecocidal.) The city I live in is big enough to have some "big box" hardware/plumbing/electrical/building material stores, and one of them, Menards, will take used CFL bulbs. So, they got our used CFL bulbs, plus a broken one in a bag. It was the best I could do, and I still didn't feel good about it. I have not purchased a CFL bulb since then.

Did you know there is a confirmed conspiracy by incandescent light bulb manufacturers to limit the life of incandescents? There is a documentary, with English subtitles, about planned obsolescence that exposes the conspiracy: Pyramid of Waste/The Lightbulb Conspiracy.


http://vimeo.com/40784272

Also, those new "incandescent" bulbs that are shown in the article linked above ("EcoVantage") are really halogens, tucked into a shell like an incandescent. They are nice and bright. In my area, the "Home Depot" store said they have an exclusive to sell them.

Dennis

[Laurel]

Did you know there is a confirmed conspiracy by incandescent light bulb manufacturers to limit the life of incandescents? There is a documentary, with English subtitles, about planned obsolescence that exposes the conspiracy: Pyramid of Waste/The Lightbulb Conspiracy.

Dennis

Absolutely! The filament breaking is what "burns out" an incandescent lamp. Poorly made filament, shorter lifespan. Total scam.

I used to live in an apartment with a stairwell light that was beyond scary to replace the lamp (imagine stepladder balanced on 2 chairs with 5-year old making sure I didn't fall). I replaced the regular old lamp with a "heavy duty" 10,000 hour incandescent lamp. It had a HUGE filament and didn't need to be replaced the entire time I lived there.

[jimmer]

as for the US still allowing 60w incandescent light bulbs (have just banning 100w),
they are next and scheduled to be banned in a year or so.
from all data I've seen, it's a profit driven motive/crime, banning one proven technology
for an unproven one. this whole CFL thing a case study in the dangers of group think and it's consequences.

[CdnSirian]

I was told halogens would raise the electric bill - don't know if that's true, I didn't try it. I have started replacing my most often used bulbs with LED. The first bulb I got was $40 - a floodlight that fits nicely in my living room torch lamp. It is the light that burns the most where I live. I wanted as close to 100W as I could get, and this lamp lights the entire room well enough for reading.

The second bulb, a 60W equivalent, is on my desk. The LED light is a bit too white, but not harsh.

I can still get the French Redux Full Spectrum bulbs, incandescent, 100W, at the health food store. I'll really applaud when a full spectrum comes out in a LED bulb.

Aside from the mercury, most CFL bulbs have radio waves emissions which can interfere with your other signals. And people sensitive to radio waves need to avoid them.

Dr. Mercola sells a CFL bulb especially designed without the radio waves - but, really, why bother.

My power bill has gone down $20 per mo just from replacing these 2 bulbs. I will slowly replace all my bulbs, as they burn out. I can't stand anything less than 60W - too gloomy for me.

A few years our city came around to all the businesses with free CFL's - and got up on a ladder and changed all our lights! "Let's just do this for you now"...the quality is ghostly...and the light inadequate. They are being replaced with incandescents as they burn out, but unfortunately they are lasting well. Ugh.

[Laurel]

as for the US still allowing 60w incandescent light bulbs (have just banning 100w),
they are next and scheduled to be banned in a year or so.
from all data I've seen, it's a profit driven motive/crime, banning one proven technology
for an unproven one. this whole CFL thing a case study in the dangers of group think and it's consequences.
I haven't heard nor seen anything confirming the ban of 60W A lamps. The Illuminating Engineering Society (IES) hasn't put out a statement about this either. I just checked their website to be certain. If you have something, please let me know.


I was told halogens would raise the electric bill - don't know if that's true, I didn't try it.
I'm not doubting you, but it sounds like they gave you only half of the information.
It doesn't matter what the source is (halogen, fluorescent, etc). What matters is the wattage (how much power is being used). So, a 50W PAR20 halogen lamp should cost you less than a 75W A19 incandescent, but more than a 32W CFL.

[eni-al]

Apparently got a few, but only left overs. Had one that began to melt. Was sitting near lamp with one in, it died, but there was what looked like a small flame I think, the plastic had melted with some smoke and a black burn.
Just looking at the wikipedia page with all the disadvantages shows they really are not great to use.

LED's may be expensive for now, but they are a better choice. Lower energy usage, last a very long time, so they pay for themselves in some way.

[jimmer]

"Starting Jan. 1, 2012, 100W lamps will have to become 30 percent more efficient or be prohibited from manufacture and import;
Jan. 1, 2013, targets 75W lamps; and
Jan. 1, 2014, targets 40W and 60W lamps."

the trick in banning something is through regulations
that makes a product financially unrealistic.

http://www.ecmag.com/section/lighting/bulb-being-banned

[Arrowwind]

Regarding disposal of fluorescent lamps, try calling your city office. They should be able to tell you the closest disposal location.

In my town that would be a joke.

Its such a pain in the neck to go to the store and try to figure all the bulbs out.. all the packaging seems to lie about performance. Im just going to return to incandescent till it all gets sorted out. We use a few halogens too, and Im not partiularly fond of them either. Id rather pay more than spread mercury around, that for sure. The two LEDs we bought are for down lighting directly over our kitchen sink. We'll see how it goes.

So someone once told me that putting a light on a dimmer does not save electricity or cost. I couldn't understand that and doubted that it was true. Anyone know for sure?

[Annajalayah]

We recently moved into a new place that was furnished entirely in CFL, and after about a week I started to just not feel well at all! There is something about the light they emit that hurts my eyes, We replaced them all with standard incandescents from the dollar store, and it's much much better. However, that said the bulbs we have now don't seem to last long at all, My theory was that dollar store bulbs cannot be great quality. It's upsetting they are going to ban them eventually, With regards to the dimmers, we had one in use at our old place and did not notice a corelation to bulb life vs dimmer use.

[Laurel]

"Starting Jan. 1, 2012, 100W lamps will have to become 30 percent more efficient or be prohibited from manufacture and import;
Jan. 1, 2013, targets 75W lamps; and
Jan. 1, 2014, targets 40W and 60W lamps."

the trick in banning something is through regulations
that makes a product financially unrealistic.

http://www.ecmag.com/section/lighting/bulb-being-banned

Thanks Jimmer! I'll print out the article at work tomorrow and check into it.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



So someone once told me that putting a light on a dimmer does not save electricity or cost. I couldn't understand that and doubted that it was true. Anyone know for sure?


That is absolutely not true. I'll put some documents together for you and post them tomorrow.

[Laurel]

So someone once told me that putting a light on a dimmer does not save electricity or cost. I couldn't understand that and doubted that it was true. Anyone know for sure?


Putting your incandescent light fixture on a dimmer will both save electricity and increase the life of your lamp.

The following information is from Lutron's website. They are one of the leaders in lighting controls. I've edited out some of the info not pertaining to this topic.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/GreenBenefits.aspx


Top 10 Energy Benefits of Light Control

1. Light Control Increases Comfort and Improves Productivity.
(there's a really nice energy savings chart that I'm having trouble copying)

2. All Lutron Dimmers Save Energy.
Every dimmer automatically saves 4-9% in electricity—even at the highest lighting levels—over a standard on-off switch. And when users choose to dim their lights, even more electricity is saved. Quite simply, the more you dim, the more you save. A standard light switch only saves electricity in the “off” position. Lutron dimmers and controls save energy 24-7.

3. All Light Sources Use Less Energy When Dimmed.
While incandescent lights are typically associated with dimming, all lighting sources, including halogen, CFLs, and, LED bulbs, can be dimmed. For example, a halogen light source dimmed 35% reduces energy use by 28%. On average, dimming an incandescent or halogen light will reduce energy use by about 20%.

6. Using Dimmers Saves Money.
Using a Lutron dimmer in your home in place of a standard switch on an incandescent bulb can result in yearly energy saving of approximately US$8.00. If the light is dimmed 50%, and if you take into account the extended life of the bulbs, you can experience up to US$30 in annual savings†.

10. All Lutron Dimmers Extend Bulb Life.
Dimmers reduce power to the lighting source or bulb, so they save energy and extend bulb life. Incandescent and halogen bulbs last up to 20 times longer when used with a dimmer, increasing the money saved.

†Savings based on replacing a switch with a Lutron dimmer. Actual savings may vary depending on use and application. Typical residential savings are estimated to be $8 per year. Stated savings of $30 based on dimming (5) 65 W incandescent reflector lamps (rated at 1500 hours each, costing $1.75 per lamp or (5) 3000 hour halogen bulbs costing $3.35 per lamp) for 5 hours per day with electricity cost of $0.1176/kWh. $30 savings further assumes lamps are dimmed to 50% perceived light level, corresponding to 40% reduction in power level. For further details and to calculate your own savings, visit our energy savings calculator.


What makes the light dim?
The triac is the key to dimming. This dimmer component actually turns light on and off very rapidly – 120 times per second. The longer the light is ON versus OFF, the brighter the light output. By the same logic the longer the light is OFF versus ON, the lower the light output.

How do dimmers save energy
When the light is off, no energy is being used. The longer the triac is off, the lower the light output, and the greater the energy savings.

Doesn't turning the lights on and off so quickly decrease bulb life?
No. Switching the bulb does not decrease bulb life; heat decreases bulb life. By reducing heat, bulb life is increased.

Does dimming affect halogen lamp life?
Yes. Dimming increases incandescent lamp life. Halogen lamps are incandescent lamps with a tungsten filament. Lutron's pilot test data suggests that halogen lamps will have an expected lamp life similar to other incandescent lamps when dimmed. As an example, 1 type of halogen lamp with a rated life of 2,000 hrs dimmed to 80 V has a life extension of at least 5 times.


I hope this helps.
Also, I'm putting more information together regarding the discontinued lamps.

[Arrowwind]

I hope this helps.
Also, I'm putting more information together regarding the discontinued lamps.

thanks Laura. I guess this was stuff my husband already knew that we never get around to talking about. Its a realm that I dont go into often and reading this helps. We are in the process of putting in about 12 Lutron dimmers in the house we are building. Lots of lighting for the house for it will include a an art gallery and stuido. Expensive little gadgets these Lutron dimmers are especially if you want them to dim an LED!
Im clearly moving away from CFL and back to incondescents or LEDs which will certainly go up on the vaulted ceiling over the stairwell, hoping we will never have to change a bulb there as it is a royal pain in the butt.


The new incandescents are ranked as more energy saving compared to the old ones.. I wonder about the reality here and the quality of light they offer. I recently purchased a 75watt of the new energy saving design and replaced a CLF that was reported to provide as much light as a 65Watt incandescent. Putting in this new bulb was like bringing the sun in. Thought I was going blind but now I can see again. Theres no way to compare this 75watt incandescent to an old one. Cant find an old one anymore but I would say that the light is pretty good.

Do you think that dimming an LED will save energy? Assuming it will turn the bulb on and off 120 times per second It would be natural to conclude yes, but I wonder about wear and tear on these expensive bulbs over time. Somewhere I think I already read about this but have already forgotten the answer. I think they are ok if you put them on the right dimmer.

[Laurel]

I hope this helps.
Also, I'm putting more information together regarding the discontinued lamps.

thanks Laura. I guess this was stuff my husband already knew that we never get around to talking about. Its a realm that I dont go into often and reading this helps. We are in the process of putting in about 12 Lutron dimmers in the house we are building. Lots of lighting for the house for it will include a an art gallery and stuido. Expensive little gadgets these Lutron dimmers are especially if you want them to dim an LED!
Im clearly moving away from CFL and back to incondescents or LEDs which will certainly go up on the vaulted ceiling over the stairwell, hoping we will never have to change a bulb there as it is a royal pain in the butt.


The new incandescents are ranked as more energy saving compared to the old ones.. I wonder about the reality here and the quality of light they offer. I recently purchased a 75watt of the new energy saving design and replaced a CLF that was reported to provide as much light as a 65Watt incandescent. Putting in this new bulb was like bringing the sun in. Thought I was going blind but now I can see again. Theres no way to compare this 75watt incandescent to an old one. Cant find an old one anymore but I would say that the light is pretty good.

Do you think that dimming an LED will save energy? Assuming it will turn the bulb on and off 120 times per second It would be natural to conclude yes, but I wonder about wear and tear on these expensive bulbs over time. Somewhere I think I already read about this but have already forgotten the answer. I think they are ok if you put them on the right dimmer.

Dimming LED's is quite a bit different than incandescent.
LEDs do not have a filament. it's a diode which emits light when energized.
First, you need to be certain that the LED driver is dimmable.
Next, you need to find out what type of dimmer is compatible with that driver.
LEDs don't dim 0-100%. You'll notice that, as you dim it down, it will turn off around 10-20%. The percentage that it will go down to is dependent on the driver.
Dimming will save on your energy costs by running them at a lower wattage.

Your project sounds beautiful!!
Another huge benefit when using LED with artwork is that it will be a lot cooler. You won't have the hot light and UV rays, which can potentially damage your artwork.

If you need help with anything, please do not hesitate to send me a pm. I'm happy to help.

[Arrowwind]

[First, you need to be certain that the LED driver is dimmable.
Next, you need to find out what type of dimmer is compatible with that driver.
.

what a web they spin. Im hoping all this gets simplifed over time as the technology progresses.
thanks. Now I have to make sure my driver on the LEDS which state they are dimmable is compatable with the dimmers we picked out.

[Laurel]

"Starting Jan. 1, 2012, 100W lamps will have to become 30 percent more efficient or be prohibited from manufacture and import;
Jan. 1, 2013, targets 75W lamps; and
Jan. 1, 2014, targets 40W and 60W lamps."

the trick in banning something is through regulations
that makes a product financially unrealistic.

http://www.ecmag.com/section/lighting/bulb-being-banned

Sorry to have taken so long to reply! Everytime I start this email, something at work comes up.
Jimmer, you're absolutely correct.

Per Philip's website:
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/lightcommunity/trends/legislation/legis-321.wpd


Lamps covered by these new efficiency requirements include lamps that:
• Are intended for general service applications
• Have a medium screw base
• Have a lumen range of 310 to 2600 lumens and are capable of operating at least partially in the range of 110-130 volts.

All medium and intermediate base B, F, and BA candles must use less than 40W of energy. All candelabra base B, F and BA lamps must use less than 60W of energy. These rules both take effect in 2012.


Also, the electrical distributors are already having trouble getting the 60W and 40W lamps. They keep placing the orders, but the manufacturer isn't shipping them. It sounds like a combination of high demand and phasing them out.

The confusing thing is that the fixture manufacturers are still selling lighting specified for these discontinued lamps. I can't say more about it at this time.

I had a long discussion with an electrical contractor last week about the retrofit LED A-lamps (the kind that look like a regular light bulb, not the directional ones that look like halogen lamps). He commented on the poor performance, terrible color and bad light output. These LED lamps are just not quite there yet.