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Swanny
16th September 2010, 23:40
Well if this is true you don't have to worry about global warming any more. (I never believed that anyway)
Apparently the last time we had so sun spots the river Thames froze over so combine that with the north Atlantic conveyor stopping and it looks as though we're in for a bit of a chill. :suspicious:



The latest satellite data establishes that the North Atlantic Current (also called the North Atlantic Drift) no longer exists and along with it the Norway Current. These two warm water currents are actually part of the same system that has several names depending on where in the Atlantic Ocean it is. The entire system is a key part of the planet’s heat regulatory system; it is what keeps Ireland and the United Kingdom mostly ice free and the Scandinavia countries from being too cold; it is what keeps the entire world from another Ice Age. This Thermohaline Circulation System is now dead in places and dying in others.

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/thermohaline_circulation_2.png

More here http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/09/14/life-on-this-earth-just-changed-the-north-atlantic-current-is-gone/


No idea if the above is true or not but I'm sure we will find out soon enough.
I can't help thinking that maybe they blew up the oil rig in the gulf to set this in motion???

Time to buy your self some nice warm clothes :cool:

Ammit
17th September 2010, 00:34
Apparently Swanny, this stopped in June. That is if we are talking about the gulf stream???

Hiram
17th September 2010, 00:43
The north Atlantic Conveyor is the lynch-pin that once removed, will send the Eath into her next Ice-Age

(which is her pretty normal state--we have been living in an inter-glacial and have assumed this is normal--its not and she will soon return to the norm. The temperate climate is a very brief stage geologically speaking).

Watch for storms in Europe now.

Bad Ones.

Thats our warning sign that the change is imminent. Just a fair warning.

Tigger
17th September 2010, 01:19
Does anyone have any information on what is likely to happen in the southern hemisphere (i.e. storms etc.)? We have already seen significantly wetter conditions in central and south-eastern Australia recently - could this also be a related trend?

Swanny
17th September 2010, 09:19
Apparently Swanny, this stopped in June. That is if we are talking about the gulf stream???

Yea the gulf stream

Tigger if the northern hemisphere goes into ice age I reckon the southern will be full of people from the north, it could get rather busy down there :grouphug:

Kulapops
17th September 2010, 09:29
and how do we know this is true ? They are always talking about it changing... So it was today , was it ? :)

Swanny
17th September 2010, 09:34
Started a while ago http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2004/0415gyre.html

But when they blew the oil well it really messed it up

morguana
17th September 2010, 09:36
the gulf steam has stopped before, for a couple of days if i remember correctly so no need to panic just yet.......however the salinity (sp?) has been steadily reducing over the last few years or so.......off to find this info


Recent observations have shown that since 1950 there has been a decrease of 20% in the flow of cold water in the Faeroe Bank channel between Greenland and Scotland. This is one source of cold dense water that drives the density-based component of the Gulf Stream. There may be an increase in flow from other cold water sources, but, if not, it could be the start of the slow down of the Gulf Stream.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/impact/gulf_stream.shtml


Heat is transported from the equator polewards mostly by the atmosphere but also by ocean currents, with warm water near the surface and cold water at deeper levels. The best known segment of this circulation is the Gulf Stream, a wind-driven gyre, which transports warm water from the Caribbean northwards. A northwards branch of the Gulf Stream, the North Atlantic Drift, is part of the thermohaline circulation (THC), transporting warmth further north to the North Atlantic, where its effect in warming the atmosphere contributes to warming Europe. Other factors are also important, such as atmospheric waves that bring subtropical air further north, which have been suggested to influence the Climate of the British Isles more than the Gulf Stream.[2][3] The evaporation of ocean water in the North Atlantic increases the salinity of the water as well as cooling it, both actions increasing the density of water at the surface. The formation of sea ice further increases the salinity. This dense water then sinks and the circulation stream continues in a southerly direction. Global warming could lead to an increase in freshwater in the northern oceans, by melting glaciers in Greenland and by increasing precipitation, especially through Siberian rivers.[4] It is by no means clear that sufficient freshwater could be provided to interrupt thermohaline circulation — climate models indicate not, but research continues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation

Swanny
17th September 2010, 09:39
I have a load of snowboarding kit so I'll be nice and warm, might have to get some extra socks if I need to last 30 years though.
Mind you my time will have run out before 30 years anyway :yo:

viking
17th September 2010, 10:52
Yes it is quite scarey Swanny....looks like we are going to freeze our nuts off this year!!!

More here ...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?299-Earth-Updates-2010&p=48813&viewfull=1#post48813

And here
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/09/is-day-after-tomorrow-happening-today.html

viking

Fredkc
17th September 2010, 14:10
might have to get some extra socks if I need to last 30 years though.
"Socks? We no need no Steenking socks! Vamonos!"


Mind you my time will have run out before 30 years anyway
Aahhhh youth!
I so remember way back when. I remember saying
"There is NO WAY I wanna be around here after the year 2000!!
50 years old? Who the hell needs that?" ;)

So here I am, turning 59 in 2 months, 6 grandchildren and thinkin',
"Hey... this is gettin' kinda fun!"

Be well, Swanny
Fred

bashi
17th September 2010, 14:47
Some more info here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4088-The-Breaking-of-the-Loop-Current-in-the-Gulf-Stream/page1

Swami
17th September 2010, 15:07
I have a load of snowboarding kit so I'll be nice and warm, might have to get some extra socks if I need to last 30 years though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9FBQ1O5F8k

Just couldn't resist posting this one Admiral..........


I think theres not to much wrong with the The North Atlantic Current..........yet
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4088-The-Breaking-of-the-Loop-Current-in-the-Gulf-Stream&p=51500&viewfull=1#post51500

Burke
17th September 2010, 15:45
I will toss in my two cents (I am rather verbose so make that 2 dollars, sorry =/)

I, like most of you have been watching the gulf spill with a furrowed brow wondering what TPTB are up to as I also suspected foul play since it began. Since then we have endured many types of theories ranging from undersea volcanoes, killer methane bubbles, tsunamis caused by sea floor upheavals or collapses...all of them spelling the end of the earth as we know it or at least the evacuation of 40 million people from the gulf, sickness, disease, and the complete devastation of the gulf states viability to sustain life in the form of people or crops.

Being science minded, many of them made me giggle while I also admit that some of them spooked me and prompted me to research some before dismissing it as what David Wilcock calls fear porn. For those of you not hip to the term "fear porn" is was coined by David Wilcock and here is a short explanation on it from his blog (http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/davids-blog/521-disclosure-endgame?start=2):



The discussion of various insider factions can be quite disturbing for a variety of people. So, before we get into it, I want to say a few words about how most people react first -- and how toxic it can be without the greater viewpoint of understanding how we are being guided and protected through all of this.

Things on Earth look scary as hell right now, particularly if you are educating yourself about the corruption of secret insider politics. Fear is in such abundance that I coined the now widely-used Internet term 'fear porn' to describe the various media offerings that profit off of our nearly insatiable drive to have the living crap scared out of us.

Much like a sexual addiction, the attraction to 'fear porn' is primal -- sub-verbal:

When you do not have a satisfying sex life, you feel irresistibly compelled to find more sex.

* Every sexy thing you see feeds the compulsion, giving you a momentary cocaine-like high.
* Your heart pounds, your biochemical endorphins fire off, and you feel invigorated.
* On a biological level you are being driven to survive -- by reproduction.

When you do not have a satisfying spiritual faith and trust in the goodness of others, you feel irresistibly compelled to find more fear.

* Every scary thing you see feeds the compulsion, giving you a momentary cocaine-like high.
* Your heart pounds, your biochemical endorphins fire off, and you feel invigorated.
* On a biological level you are being driven to survive -- by self-protection.

Mainstream media has exploited these two primordial biological drives -- sex and fear -- for a long time in movies, television shows, news broadcasts, magazines, newspapers and website articles.

Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating Wilcock as a source of absolute truth as I feel no-one in the four corners of the world has it. I take most of what I read and research with a grain of salt and follow no one in particular while just taking it all in and try to make sense of it all. My main motivation for keeping track of the gulf oil spill is that I have family on the coast about 150 miles from the spill and not the fear porn reasons.

I read world news and then reaction to that news from just about every major conspiracy outlet (that I consider worthy, this includes PC and this forum) daily and am a devotee to none of them yet admire all of them for doing what they do out of compassion for humanity. This takes up from 4 to sometimes 12 hours of my day, every day, while I do research on the side to educate myself on the issues at hand in today's rapidly changing world. Yet I do agree with David on his fear porn concept because I have observed it as a reality in myself from time to time.

Another reason for bringing up Wilcock is that since this oil spill occurred there have been, on top of all of the terrifying doomsday scenarios hitting the net, very little deep insider info coming out on it. We did see some oil industry people come out crying foul at what they were watching on the rovers and TV, compared to what we were being fed through MSM and TPTB. I had been wanting some real deep insider leaks to surface because although there was alot of juice being speculated on the net, no real "meat". The only real meat I saw was from Wilcock in his blog The End of the Oil Spill (http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/davids-blog/856-endoilspill) on July 16th, and in retrospect it was indeed the end of the spill portion of this disaster. I don't know at all if the events he shared was true but two things caught my attention in his article:

46 US Warships Plus 7,000 US Marines On Route To Costa Rica (http://www.welovecostarica.com/public/46_US_Warships_Plus_7000_US_Marines_On_Route_To_Co sta_Rica.cfm)
Upon searching I could not find any articles anywhere that had even half that many ships in one place at one time since WW2. So this lent some credence to his insiders testimony. Although I cant say I really spent more than a couple of hours trying to find such information so it may have escaped my search.

The second was when David wrote this:

As it turns out, the insiders realized that this event was far too catastrophic and cataclysmic for the Earth if they did not stop it.

Most of this information has already appeared in the mainstream to some degree or another -- but the scope of the problem was extremely serious. I do not want to go into specifics as it might compromise the integrity of some of my sources.

Suffice it to say that the things I heard about what would happen if they did not stop this were even worse than what most of the paranoid conspiracy sites were talking about.

I have been reading Davids blog for some time now and to see these words from someone who coined the term "fear porn" sent shivers down my spine. I was thinking well what the hell can be worse than explosive methane clouds and the possible death of 40 million people? Since he said most of the info had already appeared in the mainstream I started researching in spare time to find it. Days, maybe a week passed but I eventually came across the Zangari ISAC Report - RISK OF GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE BY BP OIL SPILL (http://www.rense.com/general91/OilSpill-CNR%202.pdf).

The ISAC Zangari report was released on June 12th 2010 so was already in the mainstream when David wrote his blog and felt that this could be a possible candidate for what he referred to in his blog. I have yet to find anything else to be honest but that defiantly does not mean I could be wrong. Well I immediately checked out Gianluigi Zangari himself, as well as the National Institute of Nuclear Physics (http://www.ca.infn.it/index.php?lang=en) and the Institute of Atmospheric Sciences and Climate (http://www.isac.cnr.it/).

I have yet to find a website for Zangari so haven't seen his actual credentials even after searching through the INFN Address Book. Intelligence Search (http://www.intelligencesearch.com/intelligence-agencies.html), Secrecy News (http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/), and even Muckety (http://www.muckety.com/) returned no results on this guy.

No one seemed to be talking about it for that matter. I had already read umpteen million doomsday scenarios already....so I stayed quiet...sat on it, waited and watched the news outlets. I did some homework and found that what morguana stated above is correct. The gulf stream has stalled before and in fact 3 times in 1996 (source (http://ocean.tamu.edu/Quarterdeck/QD6.1/spin.html)) which makes sense because this current is world wide current is mainly driven by the rotation of the earth, and is not extremely powerful, is somewhat easy to disrupt via hurricanes and eddies. The earth will continue to spin on it's axis so it is kinda self correcting it seems.

Yet this situation is different and if indeed the oil is the cause, it is still there sitting on the gulf floor, perhaps still causing the problem, and if it is indeed the direct cause of the stall...we simply do not have the means technologically to remove it from the sea floor. Which is alarming. But remember, this is a unprecedented circumstance that has never happened before and all that follows from anyone is theory and conjecture as there is no past data or model to predict what will happen. The Zangari report alone is theory. The ice age effects of the shutdown of thermohaline circulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation) is theory.

One has to wonder if if this indeed some act by TPTB to push an agenda. It seems that inducing advanced stages of theoretical global warming would be a proper retaliation of the Illuminati mindset to get their NWO green agenda back on track after the setbacks created by climategate (http://www.climategate.com/).

It seemed an eternity went by that no one in the conspiracy communities were pouncing on this. This to me seemed like it could be the first actual legitimate claim of global cataclysm caused by the Gulf Oil disaster and no one was talking about it until Bill Deagle got wind of it and did a show on it on July 16th here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZVu3Uv-jAc&feature=player_embedded). Deagle did another show on the 28th of July on this again here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUpt-QGEFGg) and it slowly started to get some attention, but not nearly the attention that most of the less likely gulf doomsday scenarios did. Perhaps it is because Deagle has predicted the end of the world or something like it so many times in the past people were just not listening any longer. Don't get me wrong, I love Deagle and have great respect for him and his work, but he is an alarmist. I am not. So I simply don't resonate with him as much as others.

I was expecting this Zangari guy to be pasted on every conspiracy website on the net by now yet there was still little happening baring a post here and there. Yet even then it never really gained traction. It wasn't until the Earl of Stirling article on Before it is News (http://beforeitsnews.com/story/128/672/Special_Post.html) hit on August the 7th followed by Marshal Masters' article at YOWUSA.COM (http://yowusa.com/earth/2010/earth-0810-01a/1.shtml) did this start to spread some. Yet still it took till around the end of August for it to go viral and has since then hit strong and get some feedback from various elements of the global community via blogs and global warming sites.

The first blog I read that picked it up and did some investigative work was "rolling rocks around (http://rolenrock.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/whispers-on-the-web-scientists-evidence-show-millions-poisoned-broken-loop-current/)":


There are some comments here that the eddy which has formed is a natural, recurring phenomena – nothing to worry about…

After reading the article, I emailed the author, Gianluigi Zangari, who promptly and courteously replied to me.

I am condensing his replies to me for brevity.

* I asked if there was further news, and GZ said he was working on an update – anyone who wants to, can email him and request a link when the work is complete. His email is: gianluigi.zangari@lnf.infn.it

*I asked if there was any improvement in the Gulf Stream loop break, and GZ said no, in fact, it was getting worse.

*Then I mentioned the “natural, recurring event” hypothesis for the current eddy (no pun intended). GZ said that his team had been monitoring the Gulf Stream since 2001, and the situation we face today is a new, never seen previously event.

If the Gulf Stream does not return to at least close to its normal flow pattern, it will have catastrophic, and global consequences. The situation warrants our closest attention, and media coverage as it evolves.

The natural forces involved are so vast, that we humans can do nothing now to alter the outcome, except to prevent ALL future oil spills, and perhaps, pray…

…John Hechtman

I am not trying to scare readers. But if this has any truth to it, it can cause problems on a scale we’ve never experienced in our lifetimes. It only takes from between 1-3 years of disrupted Gulf Stream flow to bring on the effects of serious global cooling – notice I didn’t say an ice age (but an ice age is what, I believe, the data confirms). On the other hand here is another viewpoint I will share:

Last week the eddy appeared to have rejoined the main gulf stream and today it seems to be joined on, even if there is a band of slightly cooler water separating it from the main stream. However, the Gulf Stream does still seem to be very warm and strong. We should also consider that the location of the Deeepwater Horizon and it’s oil spill is a couple of degrees of latitude further north than the loop of the gulf stream, so would likely not have a huge effect on it.

We can also check out data from previous years to see if similar eddys have formed before:

August 18th 2008: http://argo.colorado.edu/~realtime/gifs_tmp/gom_ssh/gmt.20640.gif
August 18th 2009: http://argo.colorado.edu/~realtime/gifs_tmp/gom_ssh/gmt.20538.gif
September 18th 2009: http://argo.colorado.edu/~realtime/gifs_tmp/gom_ssh/gmt.20580.gif


And lo, it appears such eddys are a normal occurrence and this study and the puff piece on it are just scare mongering by people who wish to sow the seeds of doubt over the issue of man-made catastrophic climate change.

We should also consider that this ‘study’ is not peer reviewed and has not been published in a recognised journal.

…Mofal

Conclusions? Don’t relax yet! Store away some extra food “just in case.” I won’t be bathing in the Gulf of Mexico anytime soon. I am avoiding seafood from the Gulf of Mexico for now. I am searching the Internet for news on the Loop Current and the Gulf Stream and eyeing extreme weather winter clothing in second hand stores. And I am praying. Not in this order either.

IF the Gulf Current is broken it would be the most serious climatic change any of us can imagine. Pray the Loop Current “resets” itself to its old course and rejoins the Gulf Stream to form that mighty stream of warm water that fuels the Atlantic Ocean’s thermocline.

Some good news is that if this is indeed happening that we are in good shape to see it as it happens and we are not totally unarmed to detect if there are real changed happening, from NASA (if you call that good news anyway).

Atlantic 'Conveyor Belt' Not Slowing, NASA Study Finds (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100329132405.htm)

ScienceDaily (Mar. 29, 2010) — New NASA measurements of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, part of the global ocean conveyor belt that helps regulate climate around the North Atlantic, show no significant slowing over the past 15 years. The data suggest the circulation may have even sped up slightly in the recent past.

The findings are the result of a new monitoring technique, developed by oceanographer Josh Willis of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., using measurements from ocean-observing satellites and profiling floats. The findings are reported in the March 25 issue of Geophysical Research Letters.

I have yet to search for any updates on this to see if there is any NASA data available at to what is going on currently with this current system. Although if the past is any indicator we will not find out anything until they know something for sure, and usually only if it is good news. Or more lies to the same effect.

Another dissenting voice against the likelihood of cataclysm comes from a global warming website: THE NEXT ICE AGE - NOW! (http://www.iceagenow.com/) which is a site that basically purports that we are not warming, but cooling and heading back towards the next ice age. in an article titled BP oil spill driving us into an ice age? (http://www.iceagenow.com/BP_oil_spill_driving_us_into_an_ice_age-I_do_not_buy_it.htm) yet I am not sure I share his optimism as the normal causes of eddies and disruptions in the loop current are usually temporary and transient while if the mere presence of oil in the loop is indeed causing this, then disruption may still continue as long as the oil remains in the area to continue disrupting it.

As the gulf loop story continued to evolve from late August to early September and some interesting data points came to light that indeed the conveyor does seem to be disrupted as well, new articles were written and hit the blogosphere. Two articles appeared that seemed to be the main thrust that has now caused an explosion of this news to go viral very fast in the last few days. The first is Is "The Day After Tomorrow" Happening Today -- Ice Age Imminent? (http://www.activistpost.com/2010/09/is-day-after-tomorrow-happening-today.html) on September the 3rd and finally Life on this Earth Just Changed: The North Atlantic Current is Gone (http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/09/14/life-on-this-earth-just-changed-the-north-atlantic-current-is-gone/), which seem to be the main two that have grabbed the attention of just about every conspiracy site and has now moved to normal news sites that do not focus on conspiracy.

These are sites that cover all kinds of news ranging from the mundane to the non-censored, un-spun news that quite haven;t reached main stream. A goggle search on this will link them to you as numerating them would now make this very long post much longer as this is now going viral, hitting you-tube and just about everything BUT CNN, FOX, and the rest.

Data points to consider are that there is still a media blackout concerning the Gulf of Mexico and any ramifications caused by the oil. Scientists are still being expelled from the area and samples taken by Homeland Security siting reasons of national security (http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/professor-says-homeland-security-confiscated-samples-and-notes-with-insider-information-on-dispersant-in-the-interest-of-national-security-video). There are still no fly zones in place. They have made every effort to make it "appear" as if everything is back to normal including the GOV allowing fishing to resume even. Yet there is still a great amount of protectionism going on simultaneously sending mixed signals that everyone is trying to puzzle out. Rumors are that they are also still spraying dispersant.

Are they continuing to spray the dispersant to attack the plumes that have been found? Plumes that could be effecting the loop current as "plumes" indicate that not ALL of the oil has sunk yet. Is there any OTHER deep insider knowledge that has been released other than Wilcock that sheds any light on this that I have missed? Wilcock released his insider info (which like I said was the ONLY deep insider info I have seen released yet) and then virtually disappeared for over a month before his next blog (baring his release of info on Benjamin Fulford's comments section) and one of the first he stated on finally releasing another blog update was this:

This is wholly and solely a personal update. It describes experiences I have had finishing my book and traveling. There is no 'information' about global events; no links, no politics, no insider disclosures.

Although most readers enjoy hearing about my life, and request such details, we have received some amazingly spiteful comments.
One of the ways I could interpret this is "I got alot of heat from my last insider release and I am not talking anymore about it due to that heat as I was the only fool who spilled info on this very sensitive global issue". But again that is just one of many possible interpretations and he could easily have tired from finishing the book etc. Although I had been trying to find anyone else releasing insight into the spill and missed any if there was indeed some released. I must admit that I too would hit his site daily hoping for some kind of update as to what is happening from the inside, and as time went by, my frustration increased. The fact that he got some spiteful comments tells me that he may have been getting badgered from people wanting to know more inside info, people who were growing more and more impatient as time went by. I don't really know though as this is all mere speculation.

As far as what to expect to see happening in the future concerning this issue on loop currents and Atlantic conveyors...I would avoid buying into anyone's facts and theories without realizing that there is no known precedence for this context and no way of knowing what to expect. Don't panic, stay calm and educate yourself, and stick to the facts and stay away from the fear porn that is going to explode from this. There will probably be all kinds of theories emerge and just try and remember that this is all they are.

Theories.

We are in uncharted territory.

Hiram
17th September 2010, 19:39
Thanks for all of your careful research Heretic. It's obvious you have put alot of careful thought into this.

Although I am by no means a resident expert in the field, I do have a degree in Oceanography and Atmospherics. My understanding of the situation is as follows.

1) You are correct that the Gulf-Stream (which is one component of what we call coloquially the "North Atlantic Conveyor") has been interrupted briefly many times before, and this has not in our collected experience resulted in global cataclysm, so people should maintain a healthy skepticism here.

2) Many Thousands of years ago Earths weather patters were quite different than today. These were mainly driven by the rotation of the Earth and a powerful equatorial current that circled the globe. When, geologically speaking the isthmus of Panama rose out of the ocean, the weather patters of the Earth Fundamentally changed "over-night" (relatively Speaking). The circumnavigating Ocean Current that had existed before was no more. Now there were a number of circulating ocean currents (The North Atlantic Thermohaline conveyor being one)

3) This current/conveyor is driven by two major factors, ocean temperature in the North Atlantic (Laurentian Sea) as well as salinity content and warmer waters in the Caribbean and equatorial Atlantic.

4) The kind of stalling that we all need to be concerned about, is a breakdown of one of these fundamental cogwheels of the system. I can give you a scenario. Significant warming of the Northern Ocean in the midst of a particularly warm summer, could theoretically stall the process. Now here is the key. Even once that happened, there would be a delay before the Gulf stream stopped. We would see a slowing, then a complete stop. Once that happened, we could expect the Earth's climate to be fundamentally disrupted. Massive storms will wrack Europe, storms beyond anything anyone has ever seen. Following these storms it will get cold, and will stay cold. This will happen within a single season, and most will have no warning.

This is not fear mongering. It has happened before. The Younger Dryas event was most likely caused by this very scenario. New lake bed sediment samples show a massive onset of cold occurred within as little as 3 Months.


With all of that being said, I do not wish to debate climate change with anyone. What I will say is that I am not clear on how the release of this Oil (in the amounts that were released) could precipitate this process as I described above. In my humble expertise, there would need to be other factors involved. Of course there is much that I don't know and I a still looking at the situation.

I really appreciate Heretic's analysis.