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music
17th February 2013, 05:57
No matter what the agenda merchants do to try to control us, there is one part of us that is untouchable. We can be directed to eat "empty" food, even poison food, and think we are looking after our bodies; we can be subjected to damaging additions to water or vaccines; we can be mind-controlled through countless means, from our schools, our weekly series, our must see blockbuster films, or the media. They can work to disable our chakras, to disrupt our energy fields, to turn us against each other, or to control what we think, but there is one place their influence stops.

If there is one place where we are untouchable, wouldn't it follow that this is the place to look for the "essential we"; the place to find our true nature? This part of us becomes the "treasure without price" for the controllers - they will never control us unless they can find the key to unlocking the secret contained within us all. This is The Grail - the vessel that allows our true and highest nature to become manifest on earth.

I know what I believe this place to be, but I would be interested in hearing what others believe to be the seat of Our Grail (provided you believe such a thing at all).

D-Day
17th February 2013, 06:15
I think what you're talking about there is the human SPIRIT.

Very different to the soul, as the soul can be programmed, influenced, manipulated, tortured, captured, harvested etc.

The human SPIRT, on the other hand, cannot be touched, it is both eternal and omnipresent... it represents the absoulte HIGHEST aspect of our selves.

If a person wishes to trasncend the physical, mental, and emotional "cr@p" that they have experienced throughout their many lifetmes/incarnations (which gets stored by the soul)... then they can do that by accessing and communicating with SPIRIT.

SPIRIT is where our true power lies... the key is in knowing how to connect with it and harness that power.

Godiam
17th February 2013, 07:00
Greetings D-Day,

I'm not sure how we define Soul, and Spirit, but to me I guess they are much the same concept just different labels!

Music,

I believe the Holy Grail is the realisation that, "we are an extension of the Divine consciousness that is every where" and therefore within our minds, we are as free as we believe ourselves to be!

HUGS..........Godiam

D-Day
17th February 2013, 07:13
Greetings D-Day,

I'm not sure how we define Soul, and Spirit, but to me I guess they are much the same concept just different labels!

No, sorry my freind but they are NOT the same.

If you are undure about the difference between the two (and clearly you are), then perhaps you should consider taking some time to go figure that out.

Understanding the differnce is a rather important step in learning to understand ourselves.

Shin'Ar
17th February 2013, 13:47
How ironic that such a thread should be immediately begun in such a way that instantly depicts the dual environment of the thought, for that very duality reveals both the answer and the destruction of any further speculation.

In my opinion the various ways that each chooses to define things is the root problem of everything which follows that definition as a consequence of defining something according to personal opinion. Opinions which too many are ready to fight to fight for, and die for, because they see this as the litmus test of their beliefs and understandings, and of their actual intelligence.

Opinion has been the root of all ills which have accosted mankind, and yet it is through opinion that speculation and philosophy comes alive. So the true culprit is whether or not each can offer their opinions in the understanding that The Other may not hold the same, especially when it comes to matters of speculation and theory.

Shall we war over who's speculative interpretation is more credible?

Is it wise to even attempt to attach credibility to something that we realize is speculation?

Or is it a matter of providing more followers of one theory than of another?

Yet, is it possible that every human on earth could be believing in their theories, while only one person understands that all is simply theory?

Majority acceptance is not the element which establishes truth and fact.

And this is what I believe the OP is speaking about.

Whether all the world follows a 'system' of participation in folly, there is always that one place where any one of us can be freed from the trappings.

And that is a place where speculations, opinions and individuality, are washed away in the sea of Divine Design. Many refer to it as the inner self, or the divine within. And then they further elaborate into ideas that this must continue to somehow represent their temporary identity. Which then leads to the thinking that it is 'we' and 'I' who is Divine, and therefore God. This misrepresentation of Divine Design has led to countless beliefs around the ascendance of the temporary identity, and the misnomer which states 'I am God!'

If the entire world should believe this, it is not my understanding at all. My understanding is that there is an Intelligent Design, proceeding from its origin, in which all that 'we' think involves the continuing experience of our 'we', evolves despite what 'we' think.

THAT, my friends, is the place where each needs to go to be free of all the other 'we'.

I would not call it the grail, but it really doesn't matter what I, or you, choose to call it. What matters is the understanding found there that reveals the temporary aspect of the temporarily adopted identity of one temporary incarnate form over the next. When one realizes the 'true self' is NOT the identity they have temporarily adopted in this incarnation, and that their evolving field of consciousness will experience many temporary identities, and most of those not even human, then one is suddenly looking within, not to a 'self' but to a 'Process'. A 'Process of Being' which does not highlight any particular component, or individual aspect, but which rather relies on the experience of each and every component for the progression of the One Process which is the only thing in creation which actually evolves/ascends.

In this 'place of understanding', one can 'Know thy self' as an essential energy of the progression of the Process evolving according to the Intelligence behind the design, and yet NOT some individual identity which becomes that One Process or Intelligence.

We are individual waves of energies, waves of thought, vibrations of particular frequencies, fragmented fields of consciousness expanding from the One Source Field. But the individuality and necessity of that individual energy does not extend to that fragment or component becoming The One Source or origin of it All.

There is The Source, and there is all that proceeds because of It. No element of the All proceeding should claim to be The Source, just because the experience appears to be one of identity. Identity is simply the means to incorporating the fragment with The One so that energy can be consumed and absorbed according to its individual identity/experience.

Like a book on a shelf in the library, each identity has its value and unique experience which adds to the whole of the collection found within the true Source. But no individual book/identity can declare itself the entire library, nor should any one book come to believe that it is the source of all the rest.

THAT is the place the OP asks us to relate to.

If we can become a book on the shelf, and simply 'be there' as part of the overall process, knowing that the library evolves with each and every book which is added to its collection, then we have found that Holy Graal which the Buddhas and Ascended Ones guide us toward. Not as Gods wearing our temporary identity of 'self', and not as One Grand Identity having some precedence over all others. Not in some state of peaceful bliss or nirvana. BUT RATHER, a place where all is all, and where the each is every bit as relevant as the other, and yet where each realizes that All proceeds according to design, despite the many chaotic environments where temporary energies express their experiences and 'life forces' in ways that clash with each other.

Does this suggest that 'the temporary' has no important place in the Whole Design, and each should simply sit back and meditate on the 'library shelf' of existential experience? Not at all.

I suggest that this whole aspect of 'identity ascending' into some higher state of 'that particular temporary identity', becomes realized instead for its temporary reality, and that, in such awareness, that temporary identity becomes eternal as 'Process of Being", or Sacred Energy/Fire rather than becoming the delusions of temporary adoption.

In such a place of understanding and realization one becomes many and one at the same time; The All. Not the Library, and not The source, but an essentially building component/energy of that All.

Not the hammer, nor the carpenter, but the carpenter's actual 'swinging' process/energy.

In such a place of realization the energy discovers its true merit and identity, and also the impartiality to understand that right and wrong, light and dark, fragment and source, predator and prey, will evolve as designed despite any of the distortions found within that One Grand Vibration.

What really matters is not how 'we' identify our 'process of being', but rather that there are more experiences/processes taking place to add to our own. Because without 'them' there is only One, and without The Other, The One remains alone and solitary, and creation does not evolve into anything other than that One.

It is my understanding that this is the sole reason and need for The Other coming into existence.

Without The Other there is only The One, alone, in deepest solitude, with MUCH MYSTERY to share, and nothing to offer that Great Treasure to.

The One is the bow and arrow, and the Other is the energy which sends that arrow off into the void into which it carries its vibrations.

This can be the place of resolution for every one of those various energies. A place where those intelligent energies realize that their reality is not their 'temporary vibration', but rather the 'culmination' of all of those many arrows being fired into the void, which awaits each and every one, depending entirely on each vibration to establish that which we know as the creation/vibration which stirs the stillness of the void establishing Process rather than solitude/nothingness.

Music, you asked, "If there is one place where we are untouchable, wouldn't it follow that this is the place to look for the "essential we"; the place to find our true nature?" UNQUOTE

Now I ask 'you', or should I say 'your eternal fire', is this what you were seeking? Or are you one of those who believe that you are The One Creator, or that this self you identify with as Music, is somehow going to be the same identity which continues to evolve into higher states of being and awareness?

I have responded according to my understanding, and now I ask you to share yours, for it is in the sharing that we each become 'one process' establishing the Sacred Eye of mating circles/fields of consciousness. Which without, there can be no evolution of this process of The All and The One.

This is why The Ancients, long before the many corruptions of their teachings, taught mankind to revere the circle and the PLACE where two circles become one as they share; that known to some as The Vesica Pisces and to others as The Mandorle. Two fragmented fields of consciousness mating, wedding, sharing information and experience, expanding to become higher form, higher states of being, being the energy which expands on the Divine Design, being separate petals of the One Flower of Life, being separate branches of the One Tree of Life, male and female representations of the genderless reality of duality, white and black aspects of The One Light, and above All, the very unique and individual fields that in their connection/marriage, create that which follows. neither being anything without The Other.

This PLACE you speak of, is the Sacred Eye; the Mandorle where One becomes more than one. Where The One becomes The Other by virtue of the energy which is shared and expanded upon. An energy found only in that Sacred Place, completely and totally reliant on both energies connecting, where without such connection nothing else can exist or proceed to be, because there would be only One in solitude.

Is this understanding not reflected in countless ways throughout the universe?

Is this also not the most prominent of all human experiences as we connect/attach to our mates and seek to establish that Mandorle of further reproduction of the process which bore us into this reality?

Can any of you reading this, look at the ring on your finger, and still deny the realization of being one of those energies involved in establishing the further expansion of the Divine Process of Being, which logically requires more than 'you' to be fulfilled?

This is the ancient meaning behind those rings; two fields of consciousness mating and creating something new between them. Creation is something new that did not exist previously. That is why such is never ending, never concluded, Infinite Mystery.

This is what The Ancient Ones referred to as The Inbetween.

That place of sacred creative energy found only in the mating of two fragments/fields of consciousness, as each experience their temporary identities/forms/frequencies of vibrations, and share that with The Other, creating the existence of experience rather than the solitude of self awareness in nothingness/lack of sharing.

When we can go to The Inbetween, the Otherworld, we then leave behind our 'we' and become energy established by their Source, vibrating between the two pillars, the middle path between the right and the left, trying to balance between the extremes of that Great Seesaw of experience, the bronze created by the blending in that Holy Grail of the tin and the copper, the male and the female, the light and the dark, of the dual aspects of The One and The Other, and becoming a 'process' for that Source to experience anything Other than the solitude void in which it was once confined.

In the Inbetween, there should be no judgement of other, but simple appreciation that there is Other, to create the potential for the continuation/evolution of the 'divine process', which is our true identity; not temporary but infinite, and evolving into the Mystery of what might come to be as The Other adds its experience to The All by the process of mating with an Other.

How can we judge that which makes the creation, in which we find our own energy?

Not by what that Other brings to the table of angles, but by what is brought to the Round Table to be shared with All.

Strange and terrible
are the HOUNDS of the Barrier.
Follow they consciousness to the limits of space.
Think not to escape by entering your body/Temporary Identity,
for follow they fast the Soul through angles.
Only the circle will give ye protection,
save from the claws
of the DWELLERS IN ANGLES.

And when we understand this process, and if we realize that when more bring offerings to that table which create love, peace and harmony, than The All which forms as a result, will be one of Peace and Love, and therefore the only judgement that should be made, is not on the bearers of the offerings, but on the offerings themselves, because at some point in our own evolutionary process, each of [B]'us' will bear many offerings of both.

Kill not the messenger.

Hate not the sinner, but rather the sins.

Bring to the table those offerings which you would have become the face of The All, and if all others do likewise, the all will reflect that of which it is comprised. The gift to us as fragments is that we have this choice and this constructive opportunity. One which, without the freedom to bring the offerings we choose, makes choice impossible and denies the Gift.

Either each other has this freedom, or there is no freedom at all. This is the Divine Design. This is the dual nature of creation. This is The Place where each may find peace and resolve, which becomes light and love rather than darkness and hatred. And where we realize that without the duality of each and the total freedom to be of either composition, there can be no other and No One able to experience anything other than its sole self.

This is the folly of the temporary identity, which becomes the veil that each of us struggles to crawl out from under.


Not as man am I
for free have I become of dimensions and planes.
In each, take I on a new body.
In each, I change in my form.
Know I now that the formless is all there is of form.

Man is in process of changing
to forms that are not of this world.

Search ye the mysteries of Earth's heart.
Learn of the LAW that exists,
holding the stars in their balance
by the force of the primordial mist.
Seek ye the flame of the EARTH'S LIFE.
Bathe in the glare of its flame.
Follow the three-cornered pathway
until thou, too, art a flame.

Know, O man, thou art complex,
a being of earth and of fire.
Let thy flame shine out brightly.
Be thou only the fire.

Do not cast aside the Ancient Teachings because of the corruptions of them which followed. Rather seek to discover the truths within them and piece together the whole picture.

I do not think that, in these times of accelerating spiritual enlightenment, it is coincidence or fad that the fairy tales are being offered to the world in contexts much more revealing of their true secrets, than how they have been presented historically.

It is said that many of the ancient truths have been hidden in codes and symbols deeply immersed in many cultural traditions and legends. And that as one evolves in understanding, these secrets will reveal themselves in the seeking of truth and wisdom.

ghostrider
17th February 2013, 15:32
To me the Holy Grail is our freewill ...choose yes or no, left or right, up or down, talk or listen, learn or ignore, it's all our choice ... that is my truth...

sirdipswitch
17th February 2013, 16:09
No matter what the agenda merchants do to try to control us, there is one part of us that is untouchable. We can be directed to eat "empty" food, even poison food, and think we are looking after our bodies; we can be subjected to damaging additions to water or vaccines; we can be mind-controlled through countless means, from our schools, our weekly series, our must see blockbuster films, or the media. They can work to disable our chakras, to disrupt our energy fields, to turn us against each other, or to control what we think, but there is one place their influence stops.

If there is one place where we are untouchable, wouldn't it follow that this is the place to look for the "essential we"; the place to find our true nature? This part of us becomes the "treasure without price" for the controllers - they will never control us unless they can find the key to unlocking the secret contained within us all. This is The Grail - the vessel that allows our true and highest nature to become manifest on earth.

I know what I believe this place to be, but I would be interested in hearing what others believe to be the seat of Our Grail (provided you believe such a thing at all).


Today, I have been a member of Avalon, for one year.

Again I say: "That which you seek, can be found in two books.

by; William Buhlman: "Adventures Beyond The Body"... and
"The Secret Of The Soul"...

When Buhlman said that we are Immortal, I could not stop untill I had proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt, as to its truth. It's true for me, and near as I can tell, it's true for most of you. ccc.

However... in order to achieve it, I had to "throw out"... "EVERTHING", that I "thought" I had learned over the past half century... everything.

Quit trying to explain something so simple to achieve, with so many words, that do absolutely nothing but baffel the masses with bullsh*t.

If not for my Love for you all, I would not have remained here for this long. It is my Unconditional Love for you, that keeps me repeating these simple words for you. For I know that one day, a light will flicker, and you will see its simplicity, and the Universe, will be your new playground. As it is mine.

Remember.......:wizard: :wizard: :wizard: :wizard: :wizard: :wizard:

Shin'Ar
17th February 2013, 17:32
Again I say: "That which you seek, can be found in two books.

by; William Buhlman: "Adventures Beyond The Body"... and
"The Secret Of The Soul"...


However... in order to achieve it, I had to "throw out"... "EVERTHING", that I "thought" I had learned over the past half century... everything.

Quit trying to explain something so simple to achieve, with so many words, that do absolutely nothing but baffel the masses with bullsh*t.



I am not sure what you are saying here Dipswitch. It seems that you are saying that all the chatter is bullcrap, EXCEPT for that which is chattered in those books and which you have chosen to believe is truth.

If we throw out everything, than why should those two books not be included?

I am not passing judgement on those books, I am simply asking you to be more precise in your response. It seems to be self contradictory. I am sure that it is not, but you will have to elaborate on the confusion.

If understanding these things is so simple, then why has it been so elusive to the many who have sought after it?

music
17th February 2013, 20:04
The Grail is merely a vessel. We could think of it also as the eye of the needle, or as that place in the infinity symbol where the lines cross. It may also be seen as the crucible of the alchemist, wherein base stuff is transmuted to gold. Ultimately, gold has no meaning - it is a shiny metal that men are prepared to kill and lie for, much like many a shiny idea, important because we are told it is important. The alchemist's gold is an analogue of unity consciousness, the alchemical process itself, to stripping away of the illusions of duality. Gold represents the purity of our essential nature. Purity implies "untouchability", and from my experience, the only quality that we possess that is beyond manipulation is love. True, our ego may be manipulated through the constructs it errects that are "love-related", but the quality of pure, unconditional love that we all hold within cannot be stained, tainted or altered. It simply is. I am that I am.

The heart is the place in the human body where what is below meets what is above. The lower three chakras are analogous to the 3 physical dimensions, the throat is widely regared as the vehicle of creation (in Sanskrit: the gateway to all time and space = physical creation), informed by our higher consciousness as mediated through the pineal and crown (and beyond). The heart lies between the lower and upper chakras much like the eye of the needle, or that place in the infinity symbol where the lines cross.

Youniverse
17th February 2013, 20:46
The Grail is merely a vessel. We could think of it also as the eye of the needle, or as that place in the infinity symbol where the lines cross. It may also be seen as the crucible of the alchemist, wherein base stuff is transmuted to gold. Ultimately, gold has no meaning - it is a shiny metal that men are prepared to kill and lie for, much like many a shiny idea, important because we are told it is important. The alchemist's gold is an analogue of unity consciousness, the alchemical process itself, to stripping away of the illusions of duality. Gold represents the purity of our essential nature. Purity implies "untouchability", and from my experience, the only quality that we possess that is beyond manipulation is love. True, our ego may be manipulated through the constructs it errects that are "love-related", but the quality of pure, unconditional love that we all hold within cannot be stained, tainted or altered. It simply is. I am that I am.

The heart is the place in the human body where what is below meets what is above. The lower three chakras are analogous to the 3 physical dimensions, the throat is widely regared as the vehicle of creation (in Sanskrit: the gateway to all time and space = physical creation), informed by our higher consciousness as mediated through the pineal and crown (and beyond). The heart lies between the lower and upper chakras much like the eye of the needle, or that place in the infinity symbol where the lines cross.

Very interesting comments indeed! Thanks very much! Yes I would of course agree that there is something infinitely more powerful that any "oppressors" can't touch. We can use all these different terms and stories, like 'morphic field' or the unmanifested realm perhaps, but I ask, where does God end and WE begin? I would also add that the reason that the PTB can't touch this "grail" if you will, is that it arises out of nothing or nowhere so deep inside of us. And this is what creates new worlds every moment. Once we collectively start understanding how this all works there can be no oppression. With the truth that we're all one and we are God(retaining a great deal of humility and submission of ego) we then have to address that part of the oneness that still thinks we need it to control our lives through fear. Good thread!

sirdipswitch
17th February 2013, 20:59
Again I say: "That which you seek, can be found in two books.

by; William Buhlman: "Adventures Beyond The Body"... and
"The Secret Of The Soul"...


However... in order to achieve it, I had to "throw out"... "EVERTHING", that I "thought" I had learned over the past half century... everything.

Quit trying to explain something so simple to achieve, with so many words, that do absolutely nothing but baffel the masses with bullsh*t.



I am not sure what you are saying here Dipswitch. It seems that you are saying that all the chatter is bullcrap, EXCEPT for that which is chattered in those books and which you have chosen to believe is truth.

If we throw out everything, than why should those two books not be included?

I am not passing judgement on those books, I am simply asking you to be more precise in your response. It seems to be self contradictory. I am sure that it is not, but you will have to elaborate on the confusion.

If understanding these things is so simple, then why has it been so elusive to the many who have sought after it?



oops! Forgot to tell where you can find that which I have been saying for a year, and I see that you are new here, and may not have read what I said.

In order to clear things up for you, I will tell you where to find that which I have said for this past year. Oh don't worry, it ain't much, cuz I ain't long winded, with my posting.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?47841-Adventures-Beyond-the-Body

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51152-The-Secret-Of-The-Soul

In order to achieve OBE, using his methodology, I had to throw out everything, and go into it with a clean slate. I didn't think of anything but my simple method, for 30 days, and then plopped out of body on day 31, like it was the natural thing to do.

And don't forget, I always say more between the lines, than I do on the lines. hmm.

:wizard:

Freed Fox
17th February 2013, 21:41
the throat is widely regared as the vehicle of creation (in Sanskrit: the gateway to all time and space = physical creation)

Interesting correlation, from the Bible;


In the beginning was the word [...] and the word was made flesh

Bill Ryan
17th February 2013, 22:04
Greetings D-Day,

I'm not sure how we define Soul, and Spirit, but to me I guess they are much the same concept just different labels!

No, sorry my freind but they are NOT the same.

If you are undure about the difference between the two (and clearly you are), then perhaps you should consider taking some time to go figure that out.

Understanding the differnce is a rather important step in learning to understand ourselves.

These ('soul' and 'spirit') are words in the English language -- not absolutes in themselves -- and mean different things to different people. They have not been defined by God. :)

I, for one, use the two words interchangeably. Rather than offering such a snippy response, please define what you mean... and then an intelligent and interesting discussion can result. Otherwise, there's the risk you may be perceived as arrogant, being for some reason unwilling to share your own insights and understandings.

Shin'Ar
17th February 2013, 22:14
the throat is widely regared as the vehicle of creation (in Sanskrit: the gateway to all time and space = physical creation)

Interesting correlation, from the Bible;


In the beginning was the word [...] and the word was made flesh

Yes I was going to point out the same thing as well.

With a little more depth.

It is said that all of creation is vibrating sound having been emitted by The Source, and that all resulting vibration is just the infinite continuation of that original sound wave.

Thus we find in the Bible references to the Word of God. As well as in Eastern Philosophies, reference to the Chakras.

UniVive
18th February 2013, 07:57
Quote:
"The word graal, as it is earliest spelled, appears to be an Old French adaptation of the Latin gradalis, meaning a dish brought to the table in different stages of a meal"

The latin root word, "grad" meaning "step", and "alis" meaning "you nourish" or "you feed, you maintain, or you nourish".
i.e.; Gradalis (etymologically speaking) could be interpreted as "to nourish in steps".

Generally speaking, I believe that the "grail" is the human body. The potential of the human body....in tact.
It seems to me that so much of the ancient literature and philosophy regarding (but not confined to) the grail is all a lot of occult symbolism for the literal potential (and regeneration of) the human body.

When I say body, I guess I am generally speaking of the blood. The blood, perfected...nourished, gives way for every gland and organ to follow suit.
I could go on and on....

A great reference would be George Carey's classic "The Wonders of the Human Body: Physical Regeneration According the Laws of Chemistry and Physiology", or "God-Man: The Word Made Flesh".




So yeah, I agree....We are the Grail:)

Shin'Ar
18th February 2013, 14:30
Quote:
"The word graal, as it is earliest spelled, appears to be an Old French adaptation of the Latin gradalis, meaning a dish brought to the table in different stages of a meal"

The latin root word, "grad" meaning "step", and "alis" meaning "you nourish" or "you feed, you maintain, or you nourish".
i.e.; Gradalis (etymologically speaking) could be interpreted as "to nourish in steps".

Generally speaking, I believe that the "grail" is the human body. The potential of the human body....in tact.
It seems to me that so much of the ancient literature and philosophy regarding (but not confined to) the grail is all a lot of occult symbolism for the literal potential (and regeneration of) the human body.

When I say body, I guess I am generally speaking of the blood. The blood, perfected...nourished, gives way for every gland and organ to follow suit.
I could go on and on....

A great reference would be George Carey's classic "The Wonders of the Human Body: Physical Regeneration According the Laws of Chemistry and Physiology", or "God-Man: The Word Made Flesh". So yeah, I agree....We are the Grail:)


You were in line with my understanding of its meaning in relation to a vessel, and the comparison to the human vessel, until you restricted it to the physical, and then went that step further to the blood.

I cannot argue what is written in those books, and I rarely argue anything anyway, as I am always open to speculation.

It is my understanding that the grail has always been in reference to a vessel, whether a cup or a plate matters not. The key word here is 'vessel'. And a vessel has importance not in itself as a container, but in what it may contain. A bucket is designed to carry water, and if there was never any need to carry water at all, such a device would have no purpose, and would not have even been designed. A vessel has a purpose, and without the need a vessel would be useless, and not even invented/created. So it is not the container itself that is the importance; rather it is the contents which it carries.

In using Grail symbolically, its original meaning was to depict not some cup that some holy person may have drunken from, nor some infamous heritage of blood.

As you noted ancient literature has made reference to such, but the ancient literature which you reference is not really ancient. The literature of the Celts and Brits, and the more recent literature of people Like Gardner and Nichols, are simply misconceptions to support their own biases, and a misrepresentation of its far more ancient meaning.

It is my understanding that Graal dates back to the origins of the Tree of Life, from which the Kaballah and other eastern Philosophies have sprung. In these very ancient teachings, the graal was simply the alchemist's cauldron in which was blended various ingredients.

And of course, as always unfortunately, man has misinterpreted that and added all of these other biased meanings which have led to the grail being everything from a crystal skull to a heavenly stone. And more prominently to the chalice which Jesus used at the Last Supper. Religion has always been polluted with the bias of man. But that bias tendency does not mean that, somewhere before the touch of man, there was not the element of truth, which can still be found in those manipulated versions if one knows where and what to look for.

In that understanding, even the alchemists cup has been touched by this tainting of man, where its meaning has become one suggesting alchemy was the science of trying to make gold out of other materials. But nothing could be further from the truth. When you really think about it, of what need would a true Alchemist have for gold? These were men of great spirituality. And any blacksmith would tell you that the heating required to blend metal and ore of any kind would require much more than a chemist's vial.

The true meaning of Alchemy is far too elaborate to go into here, and if anyone is interested in learning more please PM me and I will offer freely my own understanding, from my own writings compiled over many years of indepth study.

But briefly, for this thread's intent, may I add to it with this understanding of the graal-

The reason the Graal became so revered and so protected was because of its contents and its true representation. And it related to the true meaning of Alchemy. Which was simply the study of the blending of the dual elements of nature and the universe. The Graal is all about duality and its many affects on those which exist within such a dynamic.

Virtually all of the ancient teachings speak to duality in various ways. And one of the representations involved the male and female aspects of that which the human is very familiar. It also involved the blending of tin and copper to create bronze, which was another aspect many of the ancient peoples were very familiar. Bronze in those days was probably as important, if not more important, than even gold. Gold was a rarity afforded only by the rulers. But bronze was the hallmark of the age. And its discovery brought humanity into a new lifestyle, at that time anyway, having forgotten already much of the technologies that humankind had once known long before that.

Tin was used to reference the male, and copper the female,( I hope I do not have those backward), and the blending of the two is the means by which new life is created, at least temporarily physically reproduced genetically.

But alchemy was not the study of the physical nor the revering of such. It was actually the very opposite. Alchemy was the study of duality and how that pertained to the flesh and the human experience. Tin and Copper, male and female, flesh and blood, physical and metaphysical, are all simply aspects and analogies of the true study of duality.

If you have any doubts of this, attempt a brief study of the ancient religions and compare how The Twins, and the androgynous characteristics of their gods, are always in some correlation with the Graal.

It is these many and constant manipulations of the ancient analogies, which man has taken literally, which often results in the various offshoots of religious cultures.

What the Templars discovered when they went to the Far East and lived among the Sufi and the Persians, so profoundly revealed to them the truth of the misconceptions of their Christianity, that they both suffered the wrath of their papal authority, and also felt the great need to protect that truth from any further corruption of bias. What was it that discovered that they brought back to Rome and gave their lives to hide and protect from the Vatican? And what did the Vatican fear so deeply that they virtually exterminated all threat?

And yet again, man's tendency perverted that truth and it became all about bloodlines and Sang Real, or about some Holy Chalice.

But if you study Templar philosophy, you will find that it became far more aligned with the far East teachings and ancient paganism,( not to be mistaken with the more recent neo-pagan mockeries), which was the main religion of Europe in the days of Roman Conquest. Many of the religions around Europe and the Middle East at those times were, as usual, offshoots of the more ancient teachings of Serpent Wisdom; the root of paganism. One will find the serpent in virtually every religion around the globe, along with its many perversions and misinterpretations.

The cauldron of today's neo-pagans is the witches' pot for making their potions. But in true paganism, the cauldron depicted the well, or portal which was the doorway to realizing another experience other than the physical. A place where both physical and metaphysical were blended together to make one priceless element,(not gold), and far more valuable than any ore. The higher state of being of the true identity using the human as a vessel, just like the tin and the copper use the cauldron as a vessel.

The Holy Graal was simply the knowledge that the human is not what it thinks it is, and the reason it was denied by the Church, and that the Templars were persecuted for bringing it to the people, was because of the perverted Church Doctrine which taught/declared that the human would be saved in death and resurrected into a Heaven. A key which they alone held and which the believer earned at great cost.

The teachings which the Templars discovered revealed to them the manipulations and corruptions of the ancient professions, which became the Christianity for which they had killed many Muslims, and for which so many of their brethren had become blindly obedient. It was so obvious and so extraordinary, as well as so telling of the mass folly into which their brethren had been led, that it immediately and fully led the Templars into the need to reveal it, until they realized that the powers had no interest in truth, and would kill them for it. It was then that they realized the depth and breadth of human bias and greed, and its attachment to all religious persuasion, and so they chose to hide ‘the Graal’ and preserve it, so it might be available, so that truth might be available, to others when they were gone.

The Holy Graal, in my understanding is far more than just the human body or the physical. It is the ‘truth’ of the human experience and the very antithesis of what most religions have misinterpreted that truth to mean. In the container of truth we find that the human identify/the temporary physical , is NOT the true identity of the actual energy using that human form/vessel/chalice. To discover the true identity of one’s self, each must cast off the physical identity or, ( leave behind all they owned in the physical experience, even their genetic attachments, as the true teaching of Jesus declared, as opposed to the corrupted versions of it). This casting off of the physical, the flesh, has been observed throughout the ancient world in their misinterpreted versions of the serpent and ascension into some state of bliss and nirvana.
But it is my understanding that all of these misinterpretations, the natural biased tendency of man, are rooted in the far more ancient knowledge pertaining to the Tree of Life/Flower of Life and the evolution of the field of consciousness rather than some ascendance of the temporary identity of flesh. The Holy Graal has everything to do with man coming to know its true from as energy rather than flesh; the very essence of the dual nature of creation. There is no resurrection into heavenly bliss. There is simply the procession of the progression and expansion of Divine Design analogized in the very ancient teachings found around the Tree of Life/Flower of Life. These depictions are found throughout ancient digs all around the globe, and their corrupted versions have been spread as diversely as well.

Now, believe me, even though it may not seem so, this effort is extremely brief compared to what could be written to support its theory. I hope, like Chester the Pope has often voiced, that some other can find benefit in these speculations and understandings. ( Well, Chester may not refer to The Other as I do, but our hearts and purposes are sharing in the same place).

So to the OP, and Music, (who I sense is someone very ‘connected’ to me that has yet to reveal theirself to me for some reason), yes, finding One’s ‘self’ in this ‘sacred place’, can be a means of acquiring an invulnerability to those who attack our physical experience. But in my opinion, NOT because there we find our true ‘we’, but rather that there we find what is our delusional ‘we’. The untouchable is NOT the ‘you’ and the ‘I Am’, but rather the state of realizing that this ‘I AM’ is not real, and something that is not real is “Sans Reale”, or ‘without reality’. (Note the deliberate blending of both French and Italian, which sounds very much like Sang Real; coincidence that may have led to misinterpretation of royal blood line?)

Sammy
18th February 2013, 16:06
No matter what the agenda merchants do to try to control us, there is one part of us that is untouchable. We can be directed to eat "empty" food, even poison food, and think we are looking after our bodies; we can be subjected to damaging additions to water or vaccines; we can be mind-controlled through countless means, from our schools, our weekly series, our must see blockbuster films, or the media. They can work to disable our chakras, to disrupt our energy fields, to turn us against each other, or to control what we think, but there is one place their influence stops.

If there is one place where we are untouchable, wouldn't it follow that this is the place to look for the "essential we"; the place to find our true nature? This part of us becomes the "treasure without price" for the controllers - they will never control us unless they can find the key to unlocking the secret contained within us all. This is The Grail - the vessel that allows our true and highest nature to become manifest on earth.

I know what I believe this place to be, but I would be interested in hearing what others believe to be the seat of Our Grail (provided you believe such a thing at all).

I couldn't add a single word - Thanks, Music - great post!

EDIT: and to Shin'Ar - "Mindblowing... with total resonance" thanks for your patience. Ex-Pope, Chester (justoneclown)

music
19th February 2013, 06:39
...yes, finding One’s ‘self’ in this ‘sacred place’, can be a means of acquiring an invulnerability to those who attack our physical experience. But in my opinion, NOT because there we find our true ‘we’, but rather that there we find what is our delusional ‘we’. The untouchable is NOT the ‘you’ and the ‘I Am’, but rather the state of realizing that this ‘I AM’ is not real, and something that is not real is “Sans Reale”, or ‘without reality’.

We get through that to get to our true nature. Beyond the "I", we find the "We" - that we are all aspects of God, that we are God - and "that" lies beyond all the dimesions. So from where you and I are standing, yes, this is very much out of reality. Just as we have a "gateway to all time and space", we likewise have a gateway to the all that is beyond time and space. Time and space rests within all that is, energetically like a newborn cradled to the mother's breast.

UniVive
19th February 2013, 19:12
I appreciate the views made here on alchemy and religion regarding the grail. Every interpretation under the sun can be made, and if for each interpretation it can be utilized for the betterment of whomever is making that particular interpretation.... then right on:)

It is my understanding that the grail has always been in reference to a vessel, whether a cup or a plate matters not. The key word here is 'vessel'. And a vessel has importance not in itself as a container, but in what it may contain. A bucket is designed to carry water, and if there was never any need to carry water at all, such a device would have no purpose, and would not have even been designed. A vessel has a purpose, and without the need a vessel would be useless, and not even invented/created. So it is not the container itself that is the importance; rather it is the contents which it carries.

I couldn't agree more with the above statement! I believe that the grail, vessel, bucket is the human body, and it's marvelous content...blood.
Not some infamous heritage of blood, or some fancy occult bloodLINE, but blood in general. Yours. Mine. Grandma Betty's and Britney Spears':)

Not used in some strange ritual, or drank, but the blood purified and cleansed within the body.
Feeding the blood through proper mineralization, results in purity on a cellular level. If the blood which in fact fed every gland and organ of the body were completely clean on a cellular level, then the body would be a pure vessel of spirit. The capabilities of man would enhance tremendously.

It has been theorized that the grail is actually the lower human brain, the cerebrum, which is actually bowl shaped. In the cerebrum sits the pineal gland, which most people know has been labeled "The Third Eye" for it's many esoteric and physiological capabilities.

From Wikipedia:
"Unlike much of the rest of the mammalian brain, the pineal gland is not isolated from the body by the blood–brain barrier system;[12] it has profuse blood flow, second only to the kidney."
Because of this, the pineal itself becomes calcified in our day in age due to 'certain' chemicals flooding our bodies. What if this were not the case? If the blood were cleansed of all harmful or unneeded substances, what would be the true capability of the pineal, the seat of the soul?

I could go on and on. As to why there seems to be a direct war going on against the body/glands via the blood. Why is religious and occult literature abound with pine cone imagery/references. It's almost as if something is afraid of the human physical potential. Yet, it seems to me, occult/religious/grail literature is absolutely littered with symbolic 'hints' about the physical human potential, regenerated.

It is even speculated that there is a point where soul or the divine essence of self meets matter, in the continuance of matter. I believe this would be a bio-chemical occurrence on a microscopic scale. Like oxygen meeting the bloodstream if the proper amount of iron is present.

It does not resonate with me that the body is some offshoot by product of spirit. I guess it can be viewed as well as utilized that way, but surely it can go beyond that. To reach a more advanced potential in realizing that the body is also made with and of spirit, and has as much capacity and spiritual beauty as the being realizing it.

Youniverse
19th February 2013, 19:58
So this is why, when occult scholars and knights went to the Holy Land at the beginning of the First Crusade, they were searching for knowledge. Knowledge of what? The grail's whereabouts? Perhaps. Though at some point they figured out what some of you are saying, that the grail is us or our potential to be more precise. With that knowledge comes great power because without it, the masses are much more controllable aren't they? So I might say the grail is information of a particularly divine sort.

GloriousPoetry
19th February 2013, 20:28
What we feed our inner vessel with becomes our truth.....so many times we choose the wrong stuff that we forget that our given birth right is so powerful.

When the soul is born all doors are opened to adorn what follows spirit's highest form,
an essence that receives its gold from wearing being as thy lord,
creating treasures of uncommon fold.......

Blessings Music and yes I do believe in this vessel.....I have experienced it...a tunnel of light that travels through our bodies like a powerful train of wisdom.

GLORIA

Youniverse
20th February 2013, 03:46
What we feed our inner vessel with becomes our truth.....so many times we choose the wrong stuff that we forget that our given birth right is so powerful.

When the soul is born all doors are opened to adorn what follows spirit's highest form,
an essence that receives its gold from wearing being as thy lord,
creating treasures of uncommon fold.......

Blessings Music and yes I do believe in this vessel.....I have experienced it...a tunnel of light that travels through our bodies like a powerful train of wisdom.

GLORIA

Beautiful words! Is that you're poetry? I enjoyed it very much!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I meant, is that your poetry? Sorry for the typo! And thanks for that!

music
20th February 2013, 06:11
Blessings Gloria. When I hear words from the heart, I know it will serve me to listen. Thank you.

I have much to say on this, but ... I'm doing ecological trapping surveys at the moment, staying away or minimal time at home, which is best spent with my family. So my say can wait.

Nice aside from today - when I opened trap no. 69 there were two Antechinus stuartii inside, a male and a female, snuggled up head to toe in the bedding at the foot of the trap. A. stuartii are little onmivorous marsupials, about house mouse size or less.

GloriousPoetry
20th February 2013, 15:58
Youniverse,

Yes that is my poetry....thank you for your kind words.

Sammy
5th March 2013, 13:02
Quote:
"The word graal, as it is earliest spelled, appears to be an Old French adaptation of the Latin gradalis, meaning a dish brought to the table in different stages of a meal"

The latin root word, "grad" meaning "step", and "alis" meaning "you nourish" or "you feed, you maintain, or you nourish".
i.e.; Gradalis (etymologically speaking) could be interpreted as "to nourish in steps".

Generally speaking, I believe that the "grail" is the human body. The potential of the human body....in tact.
It seems to me that so much of the ancient literature and philosophy regarding (but not confined to) the grail is all a lot of occult symbolism for the literal potential (and regeneration of) the human body.

When I say body, I guess I am generally speaking of the blood. The blood, perfected...nourished, gives way for every gland and organ to follow suit.
I could go on and on....

A great reference would be George Carey's classic "The Wonders of the Human Body: Physical Regeneration According the Laws of Chemistry and Physiology", or "God-Man: The Word Made Flesh". So yeah, I agree....We are the Grail:)


You were in line with my understanding of its meaning in relation to a vessel, and the comparison to the human vessel, until you restricted it to the physical, and then went that step further to the blood.

I cannot argue what is written in those books, and I rarely argue anything anyway, as I am always open to speculation.

It is my understanding that the grail has always been in reference to a vessel, whether a cup or a plate matters not. The key word here is 'vessel'. And a vessel has importance not in itself as a container, but in what it may contain. A bucket is designed to carry water, and if there was never any need to carry water at all, such a device would have no purpose, and would not have even been designed. A vessel has a purpose, and without the need a vessel would be useless, and not even invented/created. So it is not the container itself that is the importance; rather it is the contents which it carries.

In using Grail symbolically, its original meaning was to depict not some cup that some holy person may have drunken from, nor some infamous heritage of blood.

As you noted ancient literature has made reference to such, but the ancient literature which you reference is not really ancient. The literature of the Celts and Brits, and the more recent literature of people Like Gardner and Nichols, are simply misconceptions to support their own biases, and a misrepresentation of its far more ancient meaning.

It is my understanding that Graal dates back to the origins of the Tree of Life, from which the Kaballah and other eastern Philosophies have sprung. In these very ancient teachings, the graal was simply the alchemist's cauldron in which was blended various ingredients.

And of course, as always unfortunately, man has misinterpreted that and added all of these other biased meanings which have led to the grail being everything from a crystal skull to a heavenly stone. And more prominently to the chalice which Jesus used at the Last Supper. Religion has always been polluted with the bias of man. But that bias tendency does not mean that, somewhere before the touch of man, there was not the element of truth, which can still be found in those manipulated versions if one knows where and what to look for.

In that understanding, even the alchemists cup has been touched by this tainting of man, where its meaning has become one suggesting alchemy was the science of trying to make gold out of other materials. But nothing could be further from the truth. When you really think about it, of what need would a true Alchemist have for gold? These were men of great spirituality. And any blacksmith would tell you that the heating required to blend metal and ore of any kind would require much more than a chemist's vial.

The true meaning of Alchemy is far too elaborate to go into here, and if anyone is interested in learning more please PM me and I will offer freely my own understanding, from my own writings compiled over many years of indepth study.

But briefly, for this thread's intent, may I add to it with this understanding of the graal-

The reason the Graal became so revered and so protected was because of its contents and its true representation. And it related to the true meaning of Alchemy. Which was simply the study of the blending of the dual elements of nature and the universe. The Graal is all about duality and its many affects on those which exist within such a dynamic.

Virtually all of the ancient teachings speak to duality in various ways. And one of the representations involved the male and female aspects of that which the human is very familiar. It also involved the blending of tin and copper to create bronze, which was another aspect many of the ancient peoples were very familiar. Bronze in those days was probably as important, if not more important, than even gold. Gold was a rarity afforded only by the rulers. But bronze was the hallmark of the age. And its discovery brought humanity into a new lifestyle, at that time anyway, having forgotten already much of the technologies that humankind had once known long before that.

Tin was used to reference the male, and copper the female,( I hope I do not have those backward), and the blending of the two is the means by which new life is created, at least temporarily physically reproduced genetically.

But alchemy was not the study of the physical nor the revering of such. It was actually the very opposite. Alchemy was the study of duality and how that pertained to the flesh and the human experience. Tin and Copper, male and female, flesh and blood, physical and metaphysical, are all simply aspects and analogies of the true study of duality.

If you have any doubts of this, attempt a brief study of the ancient religions and compare how The Twins, and the androgynous characteristics of their gods, are always in some correlation with the Graal.

It is these many and constant manipulations of the ancient analogies, which man has taken literally, which often results in the various offshoots of religious cultures.

What the Templars discovered when they went to the Far East and lived among the Sufi and the Persians, so profoundly revealed to them the truth of the misconceptions of their Christianity, that they both suffered the wrath of their papal authority, and also felt the great need to protect that truth from any further corruption of bias. What was it that discovered that they brought back to Rome and gave their lives to hide and protect from the Vatican? And what did the Vatican fear so deeply that they virtually exterminated all threat?

And yet again, man's tendency perverted that truth and it became all about bloodlines and Sang Real, or about some Holy Chalice.

But if you study Templar philosophy, you will find that it became far more aligned with the far East teachings and ancient paganism,( not to be mistaken with the more recent neo-pagan mockeries), which was the main religion of Europe in the days of Roman Conquest. Many of the religions around Europe and the Middle East at those times were, as usual, offshoots of the more ancient teachings of Serpent Wisdom; the root of paganism. One will find the serpent in virtually every religion around the globe, along with its many perversions and misinterpretations.

The cauldron of today's neo-pagans is the witches' pot for making their potions. But in true paganism, the cauldron depicted the well, or portal which was the doorway to realizing another experience other than the physical. A place where both physical and metaphysical were blended together to make one priceless element,(not gold), and far more valuable than any ore. The higher state of being of the true identity using the human as a vessel, just like the tin and the copper use the cauldron as a vessel.

The Holy Graal was simply the knowledge that the human is not what it thinks it is, and the reason it was denied by the Church, and that the Templars were persecuted for bringing it to the people, was because of the perverted Church Doctrine which taught/declared that the human would be saved in death and resurrected into a Heaven. A key which they alone held and which the believer earned at great cost.

The teachings which the Templars discovered revealed to them the manipulations and corruptions of the ancient professions, which became the Christianity for which they had killed many Muslims, and for which so many of their brethren had become blindly obedient. It was so obvious and so extraordinary, as well as so telling of the mass folly into which their brethren had been led, that it immediately and fully led the Templars into the need to reveal it, until they realized that the powers had no interest in truth, and would kill them for it. It was then that they realized the depth and breadth of human bias and greed, and its attachment to all religious persuasion, and so they chose to hide ‘the Graal’ and preserve it, so it might be available, so that truth might be available, to others when they were gone.

The Holy Graal, in my understanding is far more than just the human body or the physical. It is the ‘truth’ of the human experience and the very antithesis of what most religions have misinterpreted that truth to mean. In the container of truth we find that the human identify/the temporary physical , is NOT the true identity of the actual energy using that human form/vessel/chalice. To discover the true identity of one’s self, each must cast off the physical identity or, ( leave behind all they owned in the physical experience, even their genetic attachments, as the true teaching of Jesus declared, as opposed to the corrupted versions of it). This casting off of the physical, the flesh, has been observed throughout the ancient world in their misinterpreted versions of the serpent and ascension into some state of bliss and nirvana.
But it is my understanding that all of these misinterpretations, the natural biased tendency of man, are rooted in the far more ancient knowledge pertaining to the Tree of Life/Flower of Life and the evolution of the field of consciousness rather than some ascendance of the temporary identity of flesh. The Holy Graal has everything to do with man coming to know its true from as energy rather than flesh; the very essence of the dual nature of creation. There is no resurrection into heavenly bliss. There is simply the procession of the progression and expansion of Divine Design analogized in the very ancient teachings found around the Tree of Life/Flower of Life. These depictions are found throughout ancient digs all around the globe, and their corrupted versions have been spread as diversely as well.

Now, believe me, even though it may not seem so, this effort is extremely brief compared to what could be written to support its theory. I hope, like Chester the Pope has often voiced, that some other can find benefit in these speculations and understandings. ( Well, Chester may not refer to The Other as I do, but our hearts and purposes are sharing in the same place).

So to the OP, and Music, (who I sense is someone very ‘connected’ to me that has yet to reveal theirself to me for some reason), yes, finding One’s ‘self’ in this ‘sacred place’, can be a means of acquiring an invulnerability to those who attack our physical experience. But in my opinion, NOT because there we find our true ‘we’, but rather that there we find what is our delusional ‘we’. The untouchable is NOT the ‘you’ and the ‘I Am’, but rather the state of realizing that this ‘I AM’ is not real, and something that is not real is “Sans Reale”, or ‘without reality’. (Note the deliberate blending of both French and Italian, which sounds very much like Sang Real; coincidence that may have led to misinterpretation of royal blood line?)

from a friend - Sir Mark Amaru Pinkham




Taming the Dragon

For a Gnostic Templar all the sacred symbology associated with the spiritual warrior represents his or her inner principles and characteristics. According to this Gnostic Templar perspective, St. Michael and his Dragon represent the inner Soul/Spirit (St. Michael) and the material parts (the Dragon) of a spiritual warrior, including his or her physical, emotional and mental bodies, as well as mind, ego, etc. The challenge of the warrior's inner Soul/Spirit is to tame those parts of self represented by the Dragon and then use them as vehicles to achieve enlightenment - an accomplishment represented by the motif of a warrior riding his or her Dragon to other worlds, and ultimately to "Heaven." In this regard Heaven denotes both a dimensional realm as well as the ascended Gnostic Consciousness. Thus, from a Gnostic Templar perspective, to "slay" the Dragon - which is the accepted interpretation of St. Michael's interaction with his Dragon - is tantamount to slaying yourself.

seemed related

Sammy
7th March 2013, 14:18
I think what you're talking about there is the human SPIRIT.

Very different to the soul, as the soul can be programmed, influenced, manipulated, tortured, captured, harvested etc.

The human SPIRT, on the other hand, cannot be touched, it is both eternal and omnipresent... it represents the absoulte HIGHEST aspect of our selves.

If a person wishes to trasncend the physical, mental, and emotional "cr@p" that they have experienced throughout their many lifetmes/incarnations (which gets stored by the soul)... then they can do that by accessing and communicating with SPIRIT.

SPIRIT is where our true power lies... the key is in knowing how to connect with it and harness that power.

I just wanted to let you know that I enjoy many of your posts - but this post in particular.

From my experience, this is precisely correct. Now, I cannot "prove" this is the truth... but in my core, and based on my own experience, I could have written this post myself as this is exactly how I now see this dynamic. I have experienced the difference between "Spirit" and "the soul."

In some ways, and I wonder your thoughts on this - do you think it is possible for a "Spirit Being" (my term) to be able to shed their soul so as to avoid re-capture or can a Spirit Being protect their soul without any risk of re-capture?

The point is that I have found the greatest fulfillment in living a way of life that puts others first (I used to be STS and now I am, by decision... by choice, almost completely STO).

My fear is that I might risk losing the STO desire if I shed my soul.

I hope you might respond. Kindly, Chester

Hervé
7th March 2013, 16:17
Oh, well... I guess there's a lot more chewing that needs to be done... but, first, one needs to be aware that "their" mind has imposed audio filters and/or polarized lenses on one's audio visual perceptions:

Steve Richards:



The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.

[...]

When you take out something physically, that’s come in with the Spirit… so you’ve got the Spirit in there and something else has come in and this is where it’s linked to a lot of the ritual stuff because the whole idea of the ritual stuff is to traumatize the Spirit. That lets something else in when the Spirit’s traumatized to then try and take over the soul of the being. So what takes place then, in, once the Spirit gets taken over ‐‐ in other words the Spirit gets suppressed now the being [Soul] is… takes over ‐‐ then the soul now is programmed from the moment you’re born, everything external to internal, everything projected upon you becomes programmed into your cells.


LRH:

Electronic incidents: incidents that contain heavy electrical currents. Any preclear has in the last few thousand years been placed in an electronic field and rendered null, void and obsessed by very heavy "electrical" currents. The object was slavery, a compulsion to be good and obedient and to have a MEST body.

The theta being can be confused in itself, it can be hypnotized, it can go to sleep. It can experience emotions. It can think. It can feel pain. It is immortal in that it cannot die - but it could possibly become so burdened with facsimiles that it could not continue along with bodies.

[...]

A theta being can be made visible by certain electronic flows; he can be pinned down by certain flows. The wavelengths of these flows are not known to Homo sapiens at this time and methods of emission of them have not been invented on Earth.

MEST beings of the class of Homo sapiens are composite beings motivated by a theta being, entities, the genetic entity and the environment. MEST beings, fallen away from being theta beings, incapable of regaining a theta state, dislike theta beings. MEST beings, trying to inhabit an area of thetans are commonly balked and fought by the thetans and the MEST beings then begin to trap and harass the thetans and will use them to motivate new bodies when the thetans have been reduced to little or nothing in power. MEST beings (amnesia and mest body) attack thetans who menace them. Thetans can kill MEST bodies by throwing a charge at them. Thus a war develops between thetans and MEST beings. Given electronics and hitherto unconquered thetans, MEST beings can and have won.

A History of man - 1952

Hence, such belief as:


The human SPIRIT, on the other hand, cannot be touched...

Makes one ripe for harvesting and is akin to these tribe shamans/sorcerers giving some potions to their warriors to make them "bullet-proof" and invincible... and tell the eventual survivors of machine gun slaughters: "See! It worked!" while channeling the ghosts of the dead bodies to their blissed slavery.

Willow26
8th March 2013, 01:32
. The key word here is 'vessel'. And a vessel has importance not in itself as a container, but in what it may contain. A bucket is designed to carry water, and if there was never any need to carry water at all, such a device would have no purpose, and would not have even been designed. A vessel has a purpose, and without the need a vessel would be useless, and not even invented/created. So it is not the container itself that is the importance; rather it is the contents which it carries.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more with the above statement! I believe that the grail, vessel, bucket is the human body, and it's marvelous content...blood.
Not some infamous heritage of blood, or some fancy occult bloodLINE, but blood in general. Yours. Mine. Grandma Betty's and Britney Spears':)

Not used in some strange ritual, or drank, but the blood purified and cleansed within the body.
Feeding the blood through proper mineralization, results in purity on a cellular level. If the blood which in fact fed every gland and organ of the body were completely clean on a cellular level, then the body would be a pure vessel of spirit. The capabilities of man would enhance tremendously.

It has been theorized that the grail is actually the lower human brain, the cerebrum, which is actually bowl shaped. In the cerebrum sits the pineal gland, which most people know has been labeled "The Third Eye" for it's many esoteric and physiological capabilities.

From Wikipedia:
"Unlike much of the rest of the mammalian brain, the pineal gland is not isolated from the body by the blood–brain barrier system;[12] it has profuse blood flow, second only to the kidney."
Because of this, the pineal itself becomes calcified in our day in age due to 'certain' chemicals flooding our bodies. What if this were not the case? If the blood were cleansed of all harmful or unneeded substances, what would be the true capability of the pineal, the seat of the soul?

I could go on and on. As to why there seems to be a direct war going on against the body/glands via the blood. Why is religious and occult literature abound with pine cone imagery/references. It's almost as if something is afraid of the human physical potential. Yet, it seems to me, occult/religious/grail literature is absolutely littered with symbolic 'hints' about the physical human potential, regenerated.

It is even speculated that there is a point where soul or the divine essence of self meets matter, in the continuance of matter. I believe this would be a bio-chemical occurrence on a microscopic scale. Like oxygen meeting the bloodstream if the proper amount of iron is present.

It does not resonate with me that the body is some offshoot by product of spirit. I guess it can be viewed as well as utilized that way, but surely it can go beyond that. To reach a more advanced potential in realizing that the body is also made with and of spirit, and has as much capacity and spiritual beauty as the being realizing it.[/QUOTE]

music
16th March 2013, 02:37
Yes, we are talking about a vessel. Arguing about what is meant by the intellectual constructs we label “soul” or “spirit” or “essence” or “whatever” misses the point because we are talking about that which is beyond intellect and ego. We don’t “figure out” which of these constructs is pre-eminent, we go within to experience what is our true nature, which we then try to relate to others. We seek to relate what we find because the joy we find there will not be contained – we wish to share. The problem is that when I go within, I have a raw experience, but to share this I must first process the perceptual experience with my physical mind. My experience becomes once removed from truth in the process. I then process the translated perception to attempt to find meaning, and this is influenced by my life and other experience, and the extent to which I have dealt with or repressed trauma - now twice removed from truth. I then seek to turn this into words upon which there is some consensual agreement, so the idea becomes thrice removed from truth. The person to whom I relate this then goes through a similar process of distancing from truth. That is the way it is, and the best we can do is to be gentle with the experiences of others as they relate them, to be tolerant of perceived differences, yet celebrate the similarities. No one person is above another in any aspect of physical or spiritual life – hierarchy is the stuff of ego, and when we start to think that we know the only truth, then we are lost to ego, and there can only be ersatz spiritual growth (ego awareness).

So I would say that my experience has shown me that the heart is the vessel historically known as “the Grail”, but realising all of the above, know that this is true for me at this time only. All I know is that following the path of love has freed me from fear, freed me from being swayed by agenda, and freed me from the tyranny of an ascended ego.

Truth spans all traditions, and there is much crossover. Mention is made of the Templars and the truth they found out East, but note also that the traditional hand gesture portrayed in portraits of Christ is the ancient mudra for dispelling fear. If there is one thing we take from Christianity, it should be the mudra for dispelling fear – this is the key. I see things differently to Christianity – for one, the Christ Consciousness is known to me as a feminine energy, otherwise the trinity (to me) is meaningless. Dragons were also mentioned here. As a seven year old I was gifted a vision of St George, the Maiden and the Dragon, in which it was shown to me the relation of all these to the trinity. The knight and the maiden are the twin poles of physical existence, the dragon is the magic we deny, and the red c(h)ord the maiden used to subdue the dragon is the energetic fabric of physical reality and beyond. In my vision, the maiden holds the dragon with a red c(h)ord not so St George can slay it, but so he can re-unite the three: maiden, knight, dragon. Male + Female + Magic = Love. Others may call this love “god”, but as mentioned earlier – names and labels are of no importance, except to the ego.

write4change
16th March 2013, 04:21
If there is anything I brought to this life to sustain me--it was music. After my first conscious NDE at 26 I heard music for a year. I weighed 72 pounds when I chose to get back in the body which was very sick. the music sustained me for the year of healing my body. I have thought a lot about the music of society and cultures. When I was young songs like I Believe, You Will Never Walk Alone, He and Ebb Tide were hits on the hit parade. I think it matters that as a society then we all heard them. The ugly, terrible music with much mysognistic overtones heard as pop today to me indicates our degradation as a whole in spiritual concepts and conditions.

music
16th March 2013, 15:42
Well, yes, I believe music is intended to be that way today. The criminalisation of an unwanted section of society to fill the private prisons, and the breaking down of meaningful woman/man bonds and subsequent undermining of the family unit. Family is our first taste of community, and we are not required to develop community spirit apparently. The change in musical pitch from A=432Hz to the current A=440Hz helps acheive this while at the same time disabling the throat chakra. Coming full circle, attempting to render us incapable of appreciating that our body (and heart in particular) is The Grail, and the contents of the vessel is all that makes us God.

Sammy
16th March 2013, 22:06
Oh, well... I guess there's a lot more chewing that needs to be done... but, first, one needs to be aware that "their" mind has imposed audio filters and/or polarized lenses on one's audio visual perceptions:

Steve Richards:



The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.

[...]

When you take out something physically, that’s come in with the Spirit… so you’ve got the Spirit in there and something else has come in and this is where it’s linked to a lot of the ritual stuff because the whole idea of the ritual stuff is to traumatize the Spirit. That lets something else in when the Spirit’s traumatized to then try and take over the soul of the being. So what takes place then, in, once the Spirit gets taken over ‐‐ in other words the Spirit gets suppressed now the being [Soul] is… takes over ‐‐ then the soul now is programmed from the moment you’re born, everything external to internal, everything projected upon you becomes programmed into your cells.


LRH:

Electronic incidents: incidents that contain heavy electrical currents. Any preclear has in the last few thousand years been placed in an electronic field and rendered null, void and obsessed by very heavy "electrical" currents. The object was slavery, a compulsion to be good and obedient and to have a MEST body.

The theta being can be confused in itself, it can be hypnotized, it can go to sleep. It can experience emotions. It can think. It can feel pain. It is immortal in that it cannot die - but it could possibly become so burdened with facsimiles that it could not continue along with bodies.

[...]

A theta being can be made visible by certain electronic flows; he can be pinned down by certain flows. The wavelengths of these flows are not known to Homo sapiens at this time and methods of emission of them have not been invented on Earth.

MEST beings of the class of Homo sapiens are composite beings motivated by a theta being, entities, the genetic entity and the environment. MEST beings, fallen away from being theta beings, incapable of regaining a theta state, dislike theta beings. MEST beings, trying to inhabit an area of thetans are commonly balked and fought by the thetans and the MEST beings then begin to trap and harass the thetans and will use them to motivate new bodies when the thetans have been reduced to little or nothing in power. MEST beings (amnesia and mest body) attack thetans who menace them. Thetans can kill MEST bodies by throwing a charge at them. Thus a war develops between thetans and MEST beings. Given electronics and hitherto unconquered thetans, MEST beings can and have won.

A History of man - 1952

Hence, such belief as:


The human SPIRIT, on the other hand, cannot be touched...

Makes one ripe for harvesting and is akin to these tribe shamans/sorcerers giving some potions to their warriors to make them "bullet-proof" and invincible... and tell the eventual survivors of machine gun slaughters: "See! It worked!" while channeling the ghosts of the dead bodies to their blissed slavery.

Thus a soul is nothing but a traumatized spirit -

no trauma, no soul or

a spirit, relieved of one's trauma, and once again... no soul.

so my goal is to strip my spirit of this thing they call a soul as it has me entrapped and I am sick of it.

Hervé
16th March 2013, 23:00
[...]

Thus a soul is nothing but a traumatized spirit -

...


Chester, you better check Wookie's nose and see if it's hot... because I am kind of curious if you ever read what I wrote:


The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.

... if you did, then I am wondering if you understood what's written?

If you understood what's written, then I can't help but ask: do you have any idea what Steve was talking about when mentioning a difference between Spirit and Soul and that a soul is used to traumatize a spirit? ... end result, IMO, is that both Soul and Spirit end up traumatized...

Sammy
17th March 2013, 01:20
[...]

Thus a soul is nothing but a traumatized spirit -

...


Chester, you better check Wookie's nose and see if it's hot... because I am kind of curious if you ever read what I wrote:


The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.

... if you did, then I am wondering if you understood what's written?

If you understood what's written, then I can't help but ask: do you have any idea what Steve was talking about when mentioning a difference between Spirit and Soul and that a soul is used to traumatize a spirit? ... end result, IMO, is that both Soul and Spirit end up traumatized...

Hi Amzer Zo - I believed I understood completely. I read this post at least 7 or 8 times over the last week at various times. I agree 100% with the post you just made that I have quoted.

I used metaphor in my previous post (losing the soul) to suggest that a soul that is not traumatized or a soul that has experienced whatever process it requires to become untraumatized frees the Spirit and then... and this is simply my own speculation, there is no distinguishing between spirit and soul as it seems at this point, they are one.

Recall Truman Cash's view spirit and soul are one and the same...

I also recall you suggesting to me the Gypsies did not consider any "soul" element.

I also believe you mentioned to me some concerns you had with Dr. Malanga's dynamic where these components appear separate and that in this condition, they talk with each other... I believe you implied that these components becoming separate or appearing separate was a symptom of our illness (or at least mine).

So again, I just used metaphor and so perhaps I should simply say a "healed" soul frees the spirit. I guess that also implies a soul that has never succumbed to this condition we seem to possess on earth in this day may not be something separate from the spirit that could receive such a label as soul.

It is also my speculation that a spirit can be a spirit with or without that "soul" thing, but a soul cannot exist without a spirit as its foundation.

I am still exploring these last details so please, be kind and help me as you have done with this post so I can leave for Graduate School... time is short for me.



The Spirit is traumatized through time. Now the Spirit is different than the soul. Most people have no idea of the difference between the Spirit and the soul. Now the soul is linked down the genetic line and the external experiences upon us.

This implies to me that Steve is saying that before "Now" the Spirit and the soul were not different. Of course, that is prior to "time."