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View Full Version : The Precious Metal Restriction Has Begun (Reporting requirements in Arizona, USA)



AlexanderLight
4th March 2013, 13:25
History Repeats Itself: The Precious Metal Restriction Has Begun (http://humansarefree.com/2013/03/the-precious-metal-restriction-has-begun.html)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sfz3abhb2V8/UTOrPynYMAI/AAAAAAAAFr8/UJeSjDkw3BE/s1600/Precious+Metals+Restricted.png
Imposing restrictions (a.k.a. control) on precious metals can be identified as one of the last steps before an economic collapse.

Each time new money are being created, the buying strength of the dollar decreases (inflation), and because our government does not print its own money, the national debt increases.

Yes, the US government does not print its own money. Instead, it loans money from the Federal Reserve, which is nothing more than a PRIVATE bank, with a fancy title. It is not regulated by the government and does not submit to the US constitution, because it is not located on US soil.

Please, watch this short video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99DYh8Zpkpw) before proceeding.

So, if you still hope for an economic recovery, you better think twice. From the creation of the first dollar, to the complete collapse of the financial system, is just a matter of time. It's a cycle, and someday, soon, it will be completed.

The last cycle was completed in 1929 and the result was the "the longest, most widespread, and deepest depression of the 20th century" (wikipedia), and it's known to history as "the great depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression)". The recovery was long, painful and culminated with the advent of world war two, when the world governments created jobs for the war machine.

And guess who financed both sides of war? The same cartel of banksters that is controlling and enslaving the American people as we speak. Some of the most notorious families are the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. If you want to know more about their control, please read "The Biggest Secret" by David Icke.

The Precious Metal Restriction Has Begun

"Recently, Ed Steer of Ed Steer's Gold and Silver Daily received a letter from a reader, Harry Morgan, describing a problem that he encountered in selling ten ounces of silver to a local jewelry store.

Mr. Morgan was successful in selling his silver to the store, but before the transaction could be made, he had to submit to mandatory fingerprinting. He then found that payment for precious metals in excess of $600 must be by check, necessitating a deposit into a bank account.'

In depositing a check, Mr. Morgan's bank advised him that it was "required policy to ask everyone who was cashing or depositing a check from a jewelry store, coin store or a coin & stamp store, what the check was for". Not surprisingly, Mr. Morgan felt that it was none of the bank's business what the nature of his transaction with the jewelry store might be.

Now, it should be said that neither the jewelry store manager, nor the bank manager suggested that the selling of precious metal was a crime; only that, if a sale is to take place, it must be recorded. And it is safe to say that neither the store nor the bank would have a vested interest in creating such policies on their own, as such record-keeping does not increase the profits of their respective businesses. It only increases unproductive paperwork.

It would seem clear that the culprit here is the State. In the US, several states have either passed laws or are in the process of drafting laws to record the sales of precious metals.

The reader might well ask, "Why on earth would a government seek to control the sale of a few ounces of silver?" Today, the return from the sale of a few ounces of silver is practically pocket change to a jewelry store, pawn shop or bank. And, under this law, the bankers have been ordered to treat the depositor with the same scrutiny that they would a drug baron who appeared to be laundering drug money. They are achieving nothing in terms of the economy. All they are succeeding in doing is denying the depositor a basic freedom, whilst implying that there is something wrong in the purchase or sale of precious metals."

The True Purpose Of Precious Metal Restrictions

In answering this question, it may be helpful to refer to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who, the reader may remember, was the author of the Sherlock Holmes novels. In those novels, Sir Arthur occasionally had his sleuth say,

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

If we use Sir Arthur's logic, when we have eliminated the impossible in this case, what we are left with, however improbable, is that the State's objective is indeed to achieve what it is achieving denying the depositor his liberty, whilst implying that there is something inherently wrong with the purchase or sale of precious metals.

But what is the benefit to the authorities in doing so? Certainly, in the future, once the sheeple become accustomed to these restrictions as being normal (and therefore acceptable), all that would be necessary to cease the sale of precious metals would be to disallow deposits of such nature to banks. In a sense, this would render investment in precious metals valueless, as "value" exists only in relation to an ability to sell the investment.

In addition, by treating those who buy and sell precious metals in the same way as drug lords are treated, it becomes easy to convince the general public that it was a good thing the metals investors were stopped from doing what they were doing.

And that's the whole point. This is not about saving the country economically any more than a carbon tax is about saving the ecology.

The Objective Is Control

The objective here is control. And those citizens who find a way to work their way out of an economic disaster (through precious metal investment or any other means) represent a threat to that control.

If the sheep are to be sheared, they must first be penned in so that they cannot escape.

It should be mentioned that the US is not alone in increasing economic restrictions to its people. Whilst the US might be the most visible example, as it is, in a sense, the empire of our time, similar restrictions are being imposed by most governments that are finding themselves on a waterslide into an economic sewer. Argentina is a prime example, but the EU countries and others in the world are following suit.

A mere decade ago, I was rarely asked whether it might be a good idea to purchase and store precious metals. On the rare occasions that I was asked, my answer was invariably, "Yes, absolutely. You may be regarded as an idiot by most everyone you talk to about your investment in gold and/or silver, but, in time, it will become clear that precious metals are the economic 'Alamo' when many of the world's economies begin to implode."

Today, of course, the discussion has advanced a few steps. Many people around the world have chosen to purchase gold and/or silver. The question now is more likely to be, "How do I store the metal once I own it?"

Before offering an answer to this question, a further question must be posed: "What country do you live in?" Whenever the answer is, say, "The US," "France," or "Argentina," my response is that, in those countries, it soon may be unsafe to physically hold precious metals at all. It is likely that, either through confiscation or through laws prohibiting sales, any remaining owner may as well own dirt, as dirt would be more salable.

At this point in the narrative, the precious-metal naysayers may be likely to state, "I told you so gold and silver are a mistake don't invest in them," but they would be incorrect. Precious metals, along with real estate, are among the safest choices (if any investment is safe in these times) as repositories for wealth. However, if one resides in a country that is now tightening the vice on the free market, it may be wise to internationalize one's storage of wealth. (Wealth that is overseas is difficult for a home government to confiscate.)

Whenever a country is reaching the end of its life cycle and is verging upon collapse, the penultimate phase is control. When the leaders recognize that the final stage (collapse) is on the horizon, extreme control is employed as a means of both delaying the collapse and making its inevitability safer for the leaders. After all, once an entire nation of people realize that they have been hoodwinked by their leaders, they become less willing to continue to simply "go along," as they had been during the period of prosperity.

The Pen Of Control

Historically, in the penultimate phase of a nation, a "pen" of control laws and regulations is created. It is generally only after the completion of the pen that the sheep realize that they are to be sheared.

Again, historically, the numbers of people who recognize that a pen is being created to contain them are small. Typically, such a country experiences what is sometimes termed a "brain drain," in which the educated, the entrepreneurs and the far-sighted, quietly internationalize in the penultimate stage.

For many countries of the First World, that stage is occurring now."

Is There an Alternative?

This cycle of creating money and collapsing the financial system will go on and on, until we will be ready to look for alternatives. The most interesting alternative that I was able to find so far is the so called Resource-Based Economy (http://humansarefree.com/2011/08/economy-of-future-rbe.html), and it can be achieved today. We have all the knowledge, manpower and resources to make it happen, but don't expect this to come from our government. We have to make the transition together, as the intelligent species that we are.

A first good step towards it, could be the four hour work-day (http://humansarefree.com/2013/01/a-transition-plan-towards-resource.html):

"The campaign promotes a progressive reduction of working hours to allow markets to adjust: A reduction of half an hour each month, so in 8 months we would accomplish the 4 hour work-day.

But it would not stay there. A re-evaluation every 10 years would be performed to analyze increases in productivity and if we find that productivity has indeed increased (which is what most likely will happen with the rapid advancement in technology) then another reduction will be applied.

That means that, if we find that 2% annual increase in productivity occurs, 30 years after we accomplish the 4 hour word-day we would be working about 2 hours only."

Educate yourself and those around you. It can be achieved!

If you have economies in banks, this is what you should know (http://humansarefree.com/2012/08/all-legal-bank-deposit-protections-are.html).

Shamz
4th March 2013, 15:35
Its prolly here in USA - but if you look into countries like Dubai or India - which is the number one consumer of Gold -- there are no restrictions - no govt control. I have seen it first hand as I visit my family inn India at least once a year. Millions of dollar sale takes place everyday in selling and buying jewellery ( Gold, silver, platinum etc). And these guys deal in CASH - no checks to deposit in the bank.

Lazlo
4th March 2013, 15:55
It doesn't bode well for the rest of your argument when you make a 3rd grade math mistake at the beginning of it.

At no time in recent memory has silver been over $60 per ounce. He said that the sale was of 10 ounces. You can't get to $600 that way.

Besides, it has been law for quite some time in many states that any sale of precious metals over x dollars be reported for TAX purposes. For instance,the threshold in California is $1,000.

Shamz
4th March 2013, 16:06
BTW - even in India there is law to issue legitimate receipt with all your precious metal purchase so that Govt can impose VAT and other applicable taxes. Now these Jewellers somehow know how to beat that system - in the sense not sure how they get all their Gold/Silver - but they tell the clients not to take the real receipt - as it will save them lots of money ( VAT + other tax). They issue local receipts to clients for proof purposes, so all these sales don't get reported to the Government at all.

AutumnW
4th March 2013, 18:51
Thank you, Alexander. This is very interesting. I like to track govt attempts to control precious metal prices. Of course central banks are the biggest holders-- but still, the efforts to keep the average person in the stock market or treasuries is pretty clear. What holders of metal have to be aware of is the international forces arrayed against gold and supportive of American dollar. I read frequently that there is no possible way that gold won't triumph eventually. Maybe, maybe not. International forces have done a wonderful job of obstructing a break out above 2000. Per oz.

rufus7
4th March 2013, 21:17
can anyone recommend where to buy precious metals?

sheme
4th March 2013, 21:27
I thought it had all been beamed up to Mars? LOL

WhiteFeather
4th March 2013, 23:02
You can make your own precious metals by rushing nature through Alchemy. Im not joking. I have not tried it yet but some say its very possible. Heres the book below on Pdf format. Have a peak.

The Book of Aquarius - Pdf
www.thebookofaquarius.com/BookOfAquarius.pdf
The purpose of this book is to release one particular secret, which has been kept hidden for the last 12,000 years. The Philosophers' Stone, Elixir of Life, Fountain of Youth, Ambrosia, Soma, Amrita, Nectar of Immortality. These are different names for the same thing. Throughout history this secret has been used by a very few to extend their lives hundreds of years in perfect health, with access to unlimited wealth, among many other miraculous properties. Some kept the secret because they understood that the time was not right for the secret to be free for all people, but most kept the secret out of their own jealousy, ignorance, egotism and corruption. The Stone's history and the history of the human race up until this day is a strange story full of secret societies, hooded cloaks, and mystical symbols. Such theatrics are childish and shallow. It's pointless to look for the light in the shadows.

A previous post here on Avalon. The Book of Aquarius.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44141-Jay-Weidner-and-The-Book-Of-Aquarius

Lazlo
4th March 2013, 23:11
can anyone recommend where to buy precious metals?

Kitco is a reputable source.

https://online.kitco.com/?utm_source=New_Store_Tab_Top_Nav&utm_medium=new_button_Buy_Silver_Gold&utm_content=three_coins_graphic&utm_campaign=New_Store_Tab_Top_Nav

Try the yellow pages (seriously) for a local seller/trader if you want to get your hands on it immediately and buy in small mounts for cash to stay under the radar. Just know what the spot price is before you go in and understand that you are going to pay a premium. Don't get talked in to collectible coins. You are looking for maple leafs, american eagles, or junk (us coins from back when they actually had silver in them)

Paul
4th March 2013, 23:43
"Recently, Ed Steer of Ed Steer's Gold and Silver Daily received a letter from a reader, Harry Morgan, describing a problem that he encountered in selling ten ounces of silver to a local jewelry store.

Mr. Morgan was successful in selling his silver to the store, but before the transaction could be made, he had to submit to mandatory fingerprinting. He then found that payment for precious metals in excess of $600 must be by check, necessitating a deposit into a bank account.'

In depositing a check, Mr. Morgan's bank advised him that it was "required policy to ask everyone who was cashing or depositing a check from a jewelry store, coin store or a coin & stamp store, what the check was for". Not surprisingly, Mr. Morgan felt that it was none of the bank's business what the nature of his transaction with the jewelry store might be.

I tracked down the original version of this report, in the post: January Gold Imports Into India Surge 23 Percent, Hit 18-Month High (Ed Steer's Gold and Silver Daily for Feb 16, 2013) (http://www.caseyresearch.com/gsd/edition/january-gold-imports-india-surge-23-percent-hit-18-month-high). Seach down the page for "Harry Morgan".

Ed Steer reports in this column:




Further to the story about producing I.D. for buying or selling gold bullion or jewellery in the U.S.A...I got the following e-mail from reader Harry Morgan yesterday...

Hello Ed,

I just thought I'd let you know that yesterday I went to Ambassador Jewelers here in Tucson to sell (sadly) a measly 10 ounces of silver. To do so I had to submit to having my right index finger inked and fingerprinted. When I told them (politely) that I would prefer not to have to have my finger inked up and pressed onto a piece of paper I was informed that they would be unable to purchase the silver. I asked them when this process of finger printing became a standard step they told me January 1st of this year.

Furthermore, a few months ago when I went to my bank (Wells Fargo) to cash a check from Ambassador (any time you cash in more then $600 of precious metals here in Tucson you are issued a check instead of cash) the teller at the bank asked me what the check was for. I asked the bank clerk to elaborate on what she meant by 'what the check was for'. The teller (a nice young lady) told me it was now 'required policy to ask everyone who was cashing or depositing a check from a jewelry store, coin store or a coin & stamp store'. I told this clerk that in all fairness it was none of the bank's business why the jewelry store issued me a check. At this the clerk went and got the bank manager. I told the bank manager that it was none of the bank's business why the jewelry store issued me a check. The bank manager told me that he was required to record this information otherwise he could not process the check. I asked him if he couldn't process the check or the bank couldn't process the check (I was starting to get irritated).

So I said I worked at the store and this was a paycheck, then said that I had robbed a home, stolen some jewelry and sold that to Ambassador, then I said I had bought them all lunch and this check was to cover my expenses. Admittedly I was being an ass but I was very agitated about this intrusion into my personal business. So we had this little stand off until I said (firmly and evenly) that I sold a couple of my watches. At this they processed my check.

Anyway, the reason for my email was to let you/others know that, at least in Tucson, when you sell any precious metals (even 10 measly ounces of silver), you will be fingerprinted.

And so it goes ... (down the toilet).

All the best,

Harry
This answers a couple of questions from above. The location was Tuscon, Arizona, USA. The $600 check was from an earlier sale of unspecified quantities of precious metals, not from the 10 ounce sale of silver.

Paul
4th March 2013, 23:47
This answers a couple of questions from above. The location was Tuscon, Arizona, USA. The $600 check was from an earlier sale of unspecified quantities of precious metals, not from the 10 ounce sale of silver.
Based on this evidence, I have added the qualifier "(Reporting requirements in Arizona, USA)" to this thread's title. Whether precious metal trading is being restricted or not remains to be seen. What we have here is a report (unsubstantiated) of precious metal reporting requirements in the state of Arizona, USA. Perhaps this leads to trading restrictions, perhaps not.

It seems to have been the purpose of Jeff Thomas, when he posted this story minus some useful details as the article The Shearing of the Sheeple (February 25, 2013) ([url="http://www.internationalman.com/global-perspectives/the-shearing-of-the-sheeple) to use this report as evidence that we risk such restrictions.

See my next post, below, for further thoughts on that.

Paul
5th March 2013, 00:22
A few months ago, the state of Illinois considered a Precious Metal Purchasing Act (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-10/executive-order-6102-precious-metal-purchasing-act-santellis-take), which would have required certain record keeping and reporting for sales and purchases of precious metals exceeding $500 in value in the state of Illinois, USA. I don't know what became of that proposal; perhaps the legislation is still being considered.

But considering that legislation, The Daily Bell wrote the piece Gold and Silver Registration in Illinois (http://www.thedailybell.com/28559/Gold-and-Silver-Registration-in-Illinois), which in my view applies to this (unconfirmed) Tucson report as well.




The Daily Bell notes that a major initiative by the powers-that-be to restrict precious metal trading would more likely occur at the USA federal government level, not at the individual state level.

The Daily Bell further notes that such major initiatives first have a major run-up, in which some serious sounding stories are hyped, villainizing whatever it is that the powers-that-be then intend to restrict or attack. We are not seeing that run-up. No tragic reports have been hyped by the main stream US media or politicos, deamonizing precious metal traders.
On a side note, I learned while researching this that Houston, Texas is instituting some reporting and record requirements for gold and silver sales, apparently targeting the pawning of stolen goods. See Houston gold-buying businesses will now be required to photograph, fingerprint sellers (http://economiccollapsenews.com/2013/02/12/houston-gold-buying-businesses-will-now-be-required-to-photograph-fingerprint-sellers/). According to this article (http://sleepless.blogs.com/george/2013/01/calm-down-about-that-illinois-precious-metal-purchasing-act.html), the entire state of Texas has had a similar such law on the books for ten years now.

My take: such laws are indeed local or state wide at this time, and are indeed targeting some more local crime problem (or at least claim to be targeting such.)

A nation wide campaign to convince us that "Real Terrorists Use Gold" has not been made (so far at least.)

rgray222
5th March 2013, 03:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NBSwDEf8a8

kanishk
26th March 2013, 07:44
BTW - even in India there is law to issue legitimate receipt with all your precious metal purchase so that Govt can impose VAT and other applicable taxes. Now these Jewellers somehow know how to beat that system - in the sense not sure how they get all their Gold/Silver - but they tell the clients not to take the real receipt - as it will save them lots of money ( VAT + other tax). They issue local receipts to clients for proof purposes, so all these sales don't get reported to the Government at all.

Here on most of the items which doesn't require guarantee/ warranty people save VAT and OCTROI. The problem with buying Silver/ gold from Bank is same as that of from the Jwellers, because when you want to sell it they will give you less amount of money for that much metal considering that it is not pure. Also if you are taking large amount of gold or silver with you, you have to have something to show to the police so therefore jwellers gave you 'Incovice' or his local receipt with different graphics on it.

I am curious what will happen to value and price of GOLD and SILVER in India.

kanishk
30th March 2013, 08:42
In India VAT on Gold and Silver is only 1% but the import duty is 4% and varies.

So who ever selling sliver or gold has already paid import duty.

Is it possible that the reputed company can sell hollow bullions?(= adding lead and tin inside so that volume-weight ratio for will be precise)

GlassSteagallfan
30th March 2013, 10:53
can anyone recommend where to buy precious metals?

ebay...buy and sell

kanishk
12th April 2013, 20:54
http://media.resourceinvestor.com/resourceinvestor/article/2012/09/14/infographic-gold-facts.jpg

kanishk
12th April 2013, 21:24
From http://www.24hgold.com/english/contributor.aspx?article=4304684096G10020&contributor=24hGoldWire
Hindustan Times, in its March 26, 2013 article, reports that Abandoned gold loans are India's "jingle mail".

The myth that Indians' love for gold is driven by tradition rather than financial self-interest has been dashed. Falling prices have prompted borrowers who took out loans secured against the yellow metal to break a cultural taboo and abandon their collateral. It's the Indian equivalent of

American homeowners who walked away from their underwater mortgages by mailing the keys to their homes to the bank.

India's version of the "jingle mail" came to light when Manappuram Finance, a lender against gold, recently warned that defaulting borrowers would force it to report a quarterly loss. The lender's Mumbai-listed shares tanked 31% over just three days. The precipitous fall was partly due to concerns the company had selectively leaked its guidance - a charge Manappuram denies.

Borrowing against gold is popular among those who have trouble getting conventional loans. The formal gold loan market has about $30 billion in assets; the pawnshop-dominated informal market is probably several times as large. As recently as the fourth quarter of 2011, companies were offering to lend $100 (Rs 5,416.3)against jewellery valued at just $110 (Rs 5,957.9). With annual interest rates at around 26%, it only made sense to repay the loan if the value of the gold had risen to $126 (Rs 6,824.5). But the local-currency price of the same gold has now fallen to about $105 (Rs 5687.1).