Honesty

[bogeyman]

How honest are we really, personally as well professionally? Do we really take a good look at our selfs and said yes that's really what I am?

[Abhaya]

We live in the age of hypocrisy. The common interaction is just a holding up and flashing of the false ego. We all need help with this. A real honest person these days is a rare person.

I am embarrassed by my own lack of honesty

[sirdipswitch]

I was in a grocery store the other day and bought 2 cans of coffee. I, the checker, and the girl doing the bagging were having a nice chat, and she gave me my total to pay. Indignantly I said: "I'm not paying that!" She just smiled britely and said: "OK". I chuckled and told her, I have 2 of them, not one, you only charged me for one. She corrected her mistake and Said: "You could have had a free can of coffee." I said: "Yes, but I would have suffered greatly, over my stolen can of coffee." She just got a blank look on her face, as if she had no clue, what I was talking about.

If Honesty were at the top of our list in this country, there would be no wars, there would be no sickness, there would be no poverty, there would be no false terrorism. This country would be much different. Honesty...Such a simple, innocent sounding word, and yet so very Powerfull.

:wizard:

[Kraut]

Being honest is something very important to me. However being honest with oneself is not easy, I think I am, but can we really evaluate how honest we are with ourselves? The mind is a tricky thing.

It's a sad fact that many people expect others to be honest with them but they are unwilling to do the same. And it's really revealing about our society that nowadays people don't even expect honesty from Politicians anymore.

[shadowstalker]

We are all dishonest to a certain degree, to be in denial of that fact would truly be dishonest as a whole.

[RUSirius]

It is a work in progress, sometimes I think we are "programmed" to be dishonest, a "natural" reaction, sometimes I'll say to myself, "wow did I just say that" or "did that just come out of my mouth". My two year old when I ask her if she did something, she'll say, "Juhi (my other daughter) did it, she's only two. Work in progress, if progress is being made, thats what matters. IMHO.
Phil, I mean Jeff.

[markpierre]

We are all dishonest to a certain degree, to be in denial of that fact would truly be dishonest as a whole.

That's exactly right! Good one shadow. And do we need to be? NO WE DO NOT!!!.

When people talk about affecting real change, that's exactly where it has to begin. The beauty of revelations about how fraudulent the 'system' is, is that it compels us to recognize how we contribute and support it and perpetuate it through our own disintegrous attitudes and behaviors that allowed it in the first place.
Where and how minutely are we fraudulent even with ourselves? "Close the door! You just let all the flies in!" is a lie. Why do we do that? To serve our own agenda.
Getting absolutely 'true' and 'truthful' is the only way to line ourselves up individually with Reality as it is. And out of the illusion of personal truth that it seems.

You're personal 'truth' may be that you're a liar, and don't even recognize it. But acknowledging it doesn't change it. Changing it is what changes it.

Everyone give it a try. It'll be very confronting when you're challenged with 'not' lying , to save yourself a traffic ticket, or the 'facts of the matter' don't
support your own agenda. Even bending the truth is disregarding it. And you'd think all that built up good karma would make your life easier.
Not necessarily.

[JohnEAngel]

if someone were actually and totally honest do you (anyone) think that they would respond to this thread that they were? i know that most of the world believes that such a quality cannot be. this is because most are inherently influenced in that they can only see in others what they see in him or herself. excellent topic by the way.

[AutumnW]

On a mundane level total honesty could be a bit crushing. White lies, better known as etiquette allow society to function somewhat smoothly. I don't mean to diminish the larger issue being raised by the thread--just want to point out the value of having a husband who will say, "no!" when asked,"do these pants make me look fat?";)

[Craig]

What a great question, but first what is honesty? I couldn't really describe with 100% clarity. And then to ask yourself - Am I honest? I know I am not and I don't believe me either :) IT just gets deep. There is interpersonal honesty such as mentioned above with the coffee, but what would happen from a business related, like downloading TV shows, not movies in this case but TV shows, if you already get them for free on TV but downloading them weeks before you would normally get to see them would that be dishonest?

I expect to be ripped off now when dealing with big business, it is nothing personal probably a combination of laziness, or bad practices, but what happens where you are unduly rewarded by faceless big business?

but aside from monetary concerns, relationship honesty, when dealing with people either unfamiliar or not - I always try the treat others as you yourself would want to be treated, I know what it is like to be on the wrong end of shabby service, so I try not to replicate that onto others, sometimes it is very hard and sometimes i fail, then feel guilty about it for ages after even though to the normal world it is forgotten in microseconds.

Is there too much honesty? or do you white lie to save feelings especially over insignificant things but the other person might react totally over the top?

so now, would I say am I honest? to myself - no but then I never did get on with him, but to others I would like to say yes but there is room for improvement, but overall I am happy with my dealings with others.

Dam good question

[markpierre]

What a great question, but first what is honesty? I couldn't really describe with 100% clarity. And then to ask yourself - Am I honest? I know I am not and I don't believe me either :) IT just gets deep. There is interpersonal honesty such as mentioned above with the coffee, but what would happen from a business related, like downloading TV shows, not movies in this case but TV shows, if you already get them for free on TV but downloading them weeks before you would normally get to see them would that be dishonest?

I expect to be ripped off now when dealing with big business, it is nothing personal probably a combination of laziness, or bad practices, but what happens where you are unduly rewarded by faceless big business?

but aside from monetary concerns, relationship honesty, when dealing with people either unfamiliar or not - I always try the treat others as you yourself would want to be treated, I know what it is like to be on the wrong end of shabby service, so I try not to replicate that onto others, sometimes it is very hard and sometimes i fail, then feel guilty about it for ages after even though to the normal world it is forgotten in microseconds.

Is there too much honesty? or do you white lie to save feelings especially over insignificant things but the other person might react totally over the top?

so now, would I say am I honest? to myself - no but then I never did get on with him, but to others I would like to say yes but there is room for improvement, but overall I am happy with my dealings with others.

Dam good question

You're not 'getting honest' with other people because they probably don't know the difference themselves. It's not about hurting feelings and how 'bad' that is.
Truth is hurtful, deceit is hurtful. How much time do you want to waste arguing with yourself about it? You're getting honest with yourself. What's your concern? That 'other' people can't handle truth?
Isn't that their business? Or you have to make it yours?
You can't teach or exemplify what you won't do. 'Survival' for some reason depends on or justifies dishonesty. It's the world we live in?
It's also the world you don't want to live in.
Think about the insanity of that.

That was a good example in post 9: 'do these pants make me look fat?' Is she concerned about looking fat? In which case wouldn't she like to know it if she did?
Or what exactly is she asking, that she doesn't know how to ask without compromising everyone's integrity?

In compromising truth, whatever it is, and however seemingly insignificant or potentially devastating, no one wins.
You want to get out of the paradigm of deception, you're going to have get Real. Start where you can and work on it. But get Real in every possible way.

'The truth hurts.' Yup. Sometimes it does. But we still like the idea of 'no pain, no gain.' Do we? What's the 'gain' part of that? And how much is it worth?

[jackovesk]

How honest are we really, personally as well professionally? Do we really take a good look at our selfs and said yes that's really what I am?

I can only speak for myself here bogeyman...


Do we really take a good look at our selfs and said yes that's really what I am?

:yes4: Honest to the Day I Die...

I cannot operate in any other way, it is ingrained within my very Soul...

Perhaps, that's why I tend to at times, make some enemies here at Avalon...

By saying that (Absolutely EVERYTHING) I say/post in my eyes is the Honest-To-God's TRUTH, whether or not anyone agrees with my Opinion is a different story altogether...:)

But know this - I've always been (Upfront & Honest) this way & will not change for anyone...

Rgs,

Jackovesk...:neo:

PS - My Avalon Mantra

I can only share...


"The Truth as I Know It"

[Chester]

How honest are we really, personally as well professionally? Do we really take a good look at our selfs and said yes that's really what I am?

I have become "rigorously honest" as recommended by Alcoholics Anonymous. I found this is the only way I can be where I like myself, where I can maintain sobriety and where I can heal most rapidly so that (and most importantly) I can be of better service to my family, loved ones and friends. This does not mean that rigorous honesty is what might work best for someone else, but in my case, I have learned I am able to achieve the courage I must have by applying rigorous honesty consistently. I have achieved almost total fearlessness about this as well. I have also achieved the ability to have views and opinions but not overly attach to them - thus I am able to be much more open minded than I ever was earlier in my life.

All the above has resulted in my new self which is much happier, definitely more aware (and that includes aware of so many things that frightens most of us) and most importantly, I am consistently more helpful to others and I can be counted on far, far more than ever by others when I give my word - and this is huge.

I used to think everyone did like I did... which was to always present facts skewed based on the way my mind perceives the other person might best accept what I am hoping to push upon them whether it is a belief in the facts of an event or a view or opinion about something in life which might effect one's attitude and then their intentions and ultimately their actions - actions which will impact my own experience (all totally selfish). In other words, I had always been a massive manipulator and I was extremely good at this.

I still retain the talent to be persuasive, but the huge difference is that I apply complete honesty (as close to 100% as possible) with little to no fear and the key to it all is my intentions are 100% for the best for all of us, putting myself last.

Some say one must put themselves first, and I can agree with that for most folks. Why this is different for me is because I am a realized quantum being and thus I am no longer concerned first with my own personal concerns. We are all different and there is no "right" way in the big picture, especially when you have crossed that line where you know with absolutely no doubt you are a Spirit being whose finity is and only is in your own hands.

[greybeard]

Being honest does not mean being brutally frank in pointing out the moral defects and other errors in all you meet .
A degree of compassion and tact is required in dealing with others.
I have been accused of being economical with the truth from time to time ---laughing.
As a child I rapidly learned that survival technique.
Its a shame I had to.
Chris

[Chester]

Every post in this thread is GREAT! I must comment on many of them...

Abhaya – Hypocrisy is only one form of dishonesty and though this is a big one, it can all be summed up as we live in an age where to lie in any form is acceptable unless it is against the interests of an individual or a group. And then it all becomes a war of strength as to who wins. Wookiee eat Wookiee world – dickriculous!

But I can promise you that if you make the decision to become rigorously honest and then constantly work on it... even if you had been a pathological liar all your life (like I had been), you can achieve a life where you are all but 100% honest with yourelf. By taking that step, I forced myself into having to make changes such that I did not have to be dishonest with others.

This has been the single most healing thing I have ever done and nothing else comes close.

sirdipswitch – EXACTLY!

Kraut (hahaha what an Avatar name...!) – That is where it has to start (IMO)... with oneself. If it doesn’t start there, being honest with others is just an act and all and only about the outer as opposed to the kingdom within.

shadowstalker – I am not deluded enough to think I am 100% honest 100% of the time with others as well as myself, but I used to be near 0% honest with myself and always dishonest to some extent (manipulation via fact distortion) with others.
I have moved very, very close to 100% honesty with myself and others. It is doable. If I can do this (again not 100% but damn close these days and consistently!), anyone can. If we think we can’t, we have already given up and evil has won.

RUSirius (and yes, I am in communication with beings that purport to be from Sirius by the way... is this the case for you as well?) Great post and I am in the process of deprogramming as best I can and this all starts with rigorous self honesty (IMHO).

markpierre – YES!
“Getting absolutely ‘true and truthful’” Great statement – summed all up in 5 words (not my forte haha).

Step one - seek the truth, step two - BE truthful... exactly.

“You're personal 'truth' may be that you're a liar, and don't even recognize it. But acknowledging it doesn't change it. Changing it is what changes it.”

That’s it and again... if I can do this and I have and do (not perfectly but damn close) then anyone can... truly... anyone can.

JohnEAngel
Yes and I have and so has others here. To think otherwise is to become the walking dead instantly and permanently.

AutumnW – ahhhh the lovely “white lie” BS. There is no such thing. There is the way to answer where you do not have to lie. There is also the option not to answer.
Why am I militant against “the white lie?” Who decides when a lie is white or black? Delve deeply into that one... If you come to the answer I did, you realize that line between white and black is constantly moving based on all your circumstances at the time. And you are the only one drawing this conclusion as to what is white or black and there’s up to 7 billion others doing the same (who buy into “white lie). This has us all divided and evil wins. Game over.

Craig – Hhere’s what honesty is – the true, honest desire within to know the truth no matter how difficult it may be. The process of achieving true knowledge cannot occur without a true, heartfelt intention to be completely honest. Along the way in the process one comes upon new points of view. One must be able to try on a new point of view like a set of clothes which means one must also be able to take those clothes off and burn them. One must be prepared to never overly attach to any idea, thought, etc.

In time one learns that attachment in any form is “overly attached.”

That’s when one is at the doorway to true freedom.

OK, this is what has worked (and is still working) for me. The clue you are deceiving yourself always comes from the “ego” which, for me, has now become my friend... a friend I wonder what I might be like without? Would I “disappear?” Perhaps. I am afraid of that and that is being honest.

markpierre – great follow up post... dude! WoW!

When I am asked that silly question... “Do you like the way i look in my clothes?” I generally respond, “Is it important what I think? How do you feel in these clothes? Therein lies what you are looking for!”

Start with getting real! Yep... Thanks markpierre (again)

jackovesk – I believe you. You are honest... damn near 100% if not 100%. In every post of yours I have ever read, I always said, “this guy is as consistent as one can get in being brave and honest.”


and the greyest of beards...

hahaha discernment as to when one doesn't reply or when one suggests to the other that if they did so honestly, the other might not like what they hear... Yes - I do that (in being completely honest).

[Prodigal Son]

X6YLAmKFpRM

[greybeard]

Yes I think it is very important to be honest with oneself about one's own character defects as per AA 12 Steps.
How else would one get some serenity?

However its not my business to point out others faults unless they ask and even then tact is essential.
I have noticed that those who are "fond of dishing it out cant take it".

Chris