It is Time. Tech 2 : Dissolve your banking interest.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hello Dear friends


It is time to change the game. As you can see what has happened in Cyprus.

How long is it before you think it will happen to you ?

How many of you can afford to lose any money ?

SOLUTION

Take your cash out of your bank and close your excess accounts.

Have one account with a minimal amount in it that you can afford to lose.

They will come for your money , they have no shame , they have no remourse.

Be prepared.

Alternatives to Banks if you need to put it somewhere other than under the matterass ?

Bitcoin. possibly the best option atm.

Best

N

[Prodigal Son]

Yes they are coming for it. Or they can just collapse the whole system and it will all disappear into an abyss. Guess that's why the banksters went into hiding, and why they built/restored the FEMA camps.

I'm putting it into metals... the physical stuff, not paper.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Yes they are coming for it. Guess that's why the bankers went into hiding, and why they built/restored the FEMA camps.

I'm putting it into metals... the physical stuff, not paper.

Excellent idea , and for those of you who can its a great idea. Silver is possibly most affordable. Take physical hold of the silver , do not buy paper shares.

Buy bullion , coins are over priced generally.

N

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Here is an excellent thread also to follow

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57261-Iceland-Let-The-bank-Fall



N

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bitcoin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

http://maxkeiser.com/2013/03/21/bitcoin-goes-parabolic-updated-thoughts/

[puurfectten]

Hello Dear friends


It is time to change the game. As you can see what has happened in Cyprus.

How long is it before you think it will happen to you ?

How many of you can afford to lose any money ?

SOLUTION

Take your cash out of your bank and close your excess accounts.

Have one account with a minimal amount in it that you can afford to lose.

They will come for your money , they have no shame , they have no remourse.

Be prepared.

Alternatives to Banks if you need to put it somewhere other than under the matterass ?

Bitcoin. possibly the best option atm.

Best

N

they already took it....

[DevilPigeon]

-----

BitCoin??? Are you serious?????? A "currency" that's worthless once you're off the internet???

:noidea:

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Hello Dear friends


It is time to change the game. As you can see what has happened in Cyprus.

How long is it before you think it will happen to you ?

How many of you can afford to lose any money ?

SOLUTION

Take your cash out of your bank and close your excess accounts.

Have one account with a minimal amount in it that you can afford to lose.

They will come for your money , they have no shame , they have no remourse.

Be prepared.

Alternatives to Banks if you need to put it somewhere other than under the matterass ?

Bitcoin. possibly the best option atm.

Best

N

they already took it....

im sorry to hear it , what happened ?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


-----

BitCoin??? Are you serious?????? A "currency" that's worthless once you're off the internet???

:noidea:

I welcome any suggestions Devil Pidgeon

[DevilPigeon]

-----

I apologise if my first post seemed disrespectful, it wasn't meant that way.

Technology isn't our friend in this situation, the only way of ensuring the individual keeps hold of their wealth is by physical means, ultimately that means goods/commodities that have real intrinsic tangible value.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

-----

I apologise if my first post seemed disrespectful, it wasn't meant that way.

Technology isn't our friend in this situation, the only way of ensuring the individual keeps hold of their wealth is by physical means, ultimately that means goods/commodities that have real intrinsic tangible value.

Absolutely , i agree this is good advise. However for those who need to transact Bitcoin is a " possible " alternative. Its also supporting a means beyond the control of the big 4. Pretty much all our currency is digital credits until you withdraw wether its Bitcoin or Standard Banks. So they all pretty much exist in the same domain as Bitcoin. It all depends on who you want to put your trust in . . . i dont think the big 4 have earned our trust and therefore its time NOW to act.

Thank you

N

[tnkayaker]

well i dont have extra to buy silver at this time, but i do think its a good idea to keep the minimum in one account, figure out something, but the push to be involved in the bit coin is a terrible idea, its going to further the whole bit coin idea,

i read this post on yahoo about this guy wanting to trade his house and land for a deal involving this type of payment, i thought this was a bit ridiculous to want to go in that direction, someone may be behind him in trying to make his deal cute or new and interesting or who knows but fueling that flame is foolish in my mind,

this type of trade is prolly going to be the next or new type of trade installed if the banking system fails, but why further it now, we may never need it or it may never catch on , we have to want to use this type of trade if it is to catch on, if we as a people continue to visualize a healthy economy and a healthy planet, things will right themselves , at least from what i have come to understand and know cumulatively at this point, this is possibly the best solution to everything that is happening around us right now, its a bit over whelming i know, how can it not be?

i know in the past i have always looked for one good thing to attach one good feeling to, then blanket the future with faith and the thought of humbleness which may or may not help but its the only way for me to have continued faith in the world , i wont give up but i need one good thing (other than P.A. here lol) to have as a starting place to emanate from.i do thank all of the P.A. folks for their undying faith and ideas that DO give me continued faith and the will to want to continue to make things better, even though it seems there is no place to turn for stability or a positive strong hold to anchor ones beliefs.

i have read that the power of ones consciousness is more powerful than all the negative intent of the world, thats a tough idea to accept and instill in your belief system but i know from personal experience the cosmos knows not what is suppose to happen tomorrow yet, i think there is a basic plan that will evolve if no one steps in to change things for the better of for the betterment of the world, i feel we as a peaceful and positive people can change the world for the better, it just starts with one positive vision and a little or a lot of faith to charge that vision up and put it out into the universal mind to make room for these positive changes

i believe if ones vision is for the betterment of the people or the world around us, than it will come to pass, in my mind whatever is presently happening started with one persons mis guided vision of a world they think (thought) will make their world better, regardless of everyone elses experience

it makes sense to me that more people want and in-vision positive changes for the world so that we as a positive collective will be able to effect positive changes in our future ,prayer is a powerful force, it can and should be used collectively to help these positive changes come about. well thats about all i have for now folks, keep the faith, peace,dennis

[indigopete]

devilpideon said: BitCoin??? Are you serious?????? A "currency" that's worthless once you're off the internet???


I actually think Bitcoin is pretty good. In many ways it's better than metals.

I don't subscribe to the idea that Gold and Silver are a "Haven". For a start, they are not a currency - their value is intrinsic and they are pretty useless as a currency. (Unless all the Gold in the world gets minted into tiny coins and equally distributed to the world's citizens).

On the other hand, Bitcoins have no intrinsic value - their value derives from it's use as a currency - so straight away you can see it' works'. (By the way, that previous comment about it not being of any use outside the internet is simply not true. Physical bitcoins are available - ones that you put in your pocket).

It's got ALL the makings of being a saviour from the "money as debt" financial system as far as I can see. In particular:

- it has no intrinsic value so ALL it's value derives from it's use a currency

- its quantity is controlled and limited to an absolute (No more will be issued after around 2030 I think)

- its quantity is not managed by any interested party (in particular not by and NWO psychopathic control freak tyrants)

- its use (and therefore value) is soaring. It's unlikely to go into reverse

- it's supremely convenient. Works at weekends and holiday, can be emailed etc

I changed my mind quite a bit about Gold and Silver after watching Bill Still's fantastic treatise on financial systems in the film "The Secret of Oz" - the best and most comprehensive appraisal I've ever seen about financial systems in general. He checks them all out going back to the Romans and concludes that what we want is a "Debt free" currency that's centrally issued and "spent" into the economy rather than borrowed. He describes the systems of "Tally sticks" that the Bank of England used centuries ago and how powerful this was in supporting an active economy.

Well, Bitcoin is basically an electronic "Tally Stick". Check it out (the tally sticks bit starts around 16:25)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g

Pete

[indigopete]

Just to add - although Gold and Silver have a high value just now, while there is a fully functioning currency, what happens when that currency collapses ?

People will not want to be buying Gold and Silver - they will want to be buying practical things like food, clothing and housing. For that you need a currency. You can't walk into a shop with a lump of gold and buy a loaf of bread - there just isn't enough gold around to do that.

That's why I think that all this precious metal hysteria is potentially misguided. They might end up having no value in a crash (if there is a competing form of currency that's far more practical in allowing people to survive and function on a day to day basis).

I don't see any alternative whatsoever to Bitcoin as a currency capable of surviving a massive economic crash. It has that supreme advantage and trump card over all other currencies which is that it does not derive it's value from an underlying debt. It has a second supreme advantage over metals which is that it works as a currency when they do not.

Just sayin. The world is an unpredictable place. I vote for Bitcoin.

[RMorgan]

Alternatives to Banks if you need to put it somewhere other than under the matterass ?

Bitcoin. possibly the best option atm.

Best

N

No way; I don´t advice anyone to invest in Bitcoins.

It´s already starting to be regulated by the government:

http://mashable.com/2013/03/23/bitcoin-regulatio/

Of course, did you expect that the banking cartel would allow for complex alternative currencies to grow out of control? They will probably kill it before it starts to cause them trouble.

Also, bitcoin was already hacked many times and I don´t consider it to be safe enough:

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/05/top-us-bitcoin-exchange-hacked-250000-btc-stolen/

http://www.dailytech.com/Second+Bitcoin+Hack+Highlights+Challenges+Resilience+of+Anarchic+ECurrency/article27776.htm

Bitcoin is not reliable and not stable enough as an alternative currency.

Raf.

[indigopete]

Also, bitcoin was already hacked many times and I don´t consider it to be safe enough:


Oh please. :rolleyes:

That's like saying money's not a "safe form of currency" because a bank got robbed the other day. It's the bank that's not safe - not the currency. It will still work for whoever stole it. Those news stories refer to Bitcoin EXCHANGES being hacked - not the integrity of the currency ciphers themselves.

Also, bitcoin cannot be "regulated" any more than the post office can regulate email. I dare say it could be made illegal to transact in bitcoins - but if that happened it would just underline that bitcoin WAS the right solution in the face of the conventional corrupt financial system.

All this scaremongering about bitcoin isn't going to kill it - the longer it survives as a useable currency in the face of all the scare stories (that are hot air as far as I can see) the stronger it will get.

[RMorgan]

Also, bitcoin was already hacked many times and I don´t consider it to be safe enough:


Oh please. :rolleyes:

That's like saying money's not a "safe form of currency" because a bank got robbed the other day. It's the bank that's not safe - not the currency. It will still work for whoever stole it. Those news stories refer to Bitcoin EXCHANGES being hacked - not the integrity of the currency ciphers themselves.

Also, bitcoin cannot be "regulated" any more than the post office can regulate email. I dare say it could be made illegal to transact in bitcoins - but if that happened it would just underline that bitcoin WAS the right solution in the face of the conventional corrupt financial system.

All this scaremongering about bitcoin isn't going to kill it - the longer it survives as a useable currency in the face of all the scare stories (that are hot air as far as I can see) the stronger it will get.

So, would you take your money out of the banks to invest them in Bitcoins? Go ahead...

In the worse case scenario, it´s a digital currency, and if it´s digital it can vanish. The internet environment isn´t even close to be safe. And what if the governments make it it illegal, which is something that´s very likely to happen? Do you have any idea what would be the devaluation consequences to bitcoin? It becomes worthless if suddenly you can´t buy anything with it within the legal environment.

Anyway, I´m not advocating keeping your money in the bank.

All I´m saying is that there are much better and reliable ways to invest your hard earned money than digital intangibles. In case of a major collapse, could you even be sure you would continue to have free access to the internet?

Also, Bitcoin is a secure system only so long as you keep your wallet secured. What if someones hacks into your wallet and steals it, like happened to this guy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0) (someone hacked into his computer and stole the equivalent of U$500.000,00 in bitcoins)? No, digital currency is not safe, my friend.

At least, in conventional banking, if someone hacks into your account and steals your money, the bank will give it back to you.

Raf.

[indigopete]

So, would you take your money out of the banks to invest them in Bitcoins? Go ahead...
In the worse case scenario, it´s a digital currency, and if it´s digital it can vanish. The internet environment isn´t even close to be safe.

I kind of see it the other way around. It's the fact that it IS electronic that's going to make it viable and valuable - even in a crash.

I agree that anything that 's electronic is volatile, but since the dawn of man currency had been mostly numbers in a ledger. Gold is only of any value if there is a viable currency around with which to value it. It's not a "currency" in it's own right.

Sure, there will still be some people who want to buy precious metals - but only some. On the other hand, EVERYBODY will require to get their hands on a viable form of currency. So if there is one around that emerges relatively un-pummelled by the crash then it will be extremely valuable.

My point is that any big financial crash is likely to be caused by a debt implosion (i.e. all the money in the world loses it's value because of mass defaulting and subsequent loss of confidence - remember it's debt that underwrites the value of today's money).

Bitcoin would not be affected by such a crash - at least not directly. It's unique properties make such a debt implosion survivable.

On the other hand, there's no telling if precious metals would be - they might just crash with everything else due to lack of demand since they have no practical value in such a crisis. That's why I referred to all the furore over gold and silver as "hysteria" earlier - because people are just ascribing value to precious metals because everyone else does (and Alex jones and Mac Kaiser - for all his greatness and I do like him). They don't actually think it through for themselves. (Present company excepted of course - I'm sure everyone on this thread has thought it through and I respect people's opinion if they want to put their cash into metals - I just think it's not as clear cut a safe bet as it seems).

Just sayin - the world's an unpredictable place. Nothing's as it seems.

[RMorgan]

On the other hand, there's no telling if precious metals would be - they might just crash with everything else due to lack of demand since they have no practical value in such a crisis.

Hey pete,

Man, I assure you. In a scenario where even precious metals become worthless to trade for essential goods, bitcoins will be completely worthless.

Please folks, don´t do this. It´s ok if you want to try bitcoin, but don´t invest big money on it. The bitcoin forum is full of cases where people had their "wallets" hacked and never managed to get their money back, like the one I posted on my previous reply.

Raf.

[foreverfan]

u4q-OuQVDLE

[indigopete]

RMorgan -

You referred to bitcoin's "volatility" being an electronic currency but this comparison is not appropriate. I think you are confusing "electronic" with "debt based".

i.e. it's not the fact that it's electronic that makes cash volatile - it's the fact that its * created as debt * and levered on a fixed capital base. It's therefore dependent on the confidence that the ultimate creditors on whom that debt falls will not default.

Bitcoin on the other hand is not debt-based. It cannot "disappear" the way classic cash can - it's got nothing to do with being electronic or otherwise, its got to do with the nature of the currency, so I don't accept the comparison in terms of volatility - they are chalk and cheese.


In a scenario where even precious metals become worthless to trade for essential goods

When have precious metals ever been "tradeable" for essential goods ?

If there's a worldwide bank run and the bottom drops out of the classic debt-based currencies, what are you going to do with a few slabs of silver under your bed ? Shave off some filings and take them down the baker's ? No - realistically you'll have to trade your precious metal for a functioning currency in order to deploy whatever "wealth" you managed to preserve and therein you have a problem. You'll have to find a buyer for your metals that wants the metal more than they want their currency.

Lets consider for a moment what it is that gives precious metals their "monetary" value (because they don't much of any other type of value):

[1] - their scarcity. This is the primary property - they can function as a BASIS for a currency (not a currency in their own right) because there is a limited amount

[2] - their attractiveness. I'd say this is of secondary importance but it probably does contribute an element of their value

[3] - there is some industrial value - e.g. in teeth and circuit boards but, again, of secondary importance to it's 'scarcely'

What makes something like bitcoin potentially far more valuable and "safe" than metals in a bank run situation is that it has the first property above but ADDITIONALLY can function as a fully fledged universal currency. (Note I said "potentially" - all this is hypothetical, however, these are the reasons I don't subscribe to the general Gold and Silver kneejerk solutions).

So what you might have in a crash is masses of people who are using the one currency that was immune to the crash to trade, plus a small minority who have nothing but gold and silver standing around with their pants around their ankles not being able to buy anything.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think it's automatic that precious metals are wealth preserver that their being cracked up to be in a modern electronic world.

[RMorgan]

Hey pete,

I agree with you on this point; gold or silver are useless in case of an extreme crisis. There are stories from WWII of people trading 1Kg of gold for 1Kg of food.

In case of an extreme global crisis, the farmers are the new "millionaires".

Anyway, I never said bitcoins are debt based. I know they are not. I just said that, if they make it illegal, it will become worthless. It will have no value if you can´t buy stuff with it within the legal market.

The point is, bitcoin is digital. Just browse around the link I posted on reply #15 about a guy who had the equivalent of U$500.000,00 stolen in bitcoins.

Bitcoins are damn fragile, mate. The security measures you must take to make your wallet file safe are totally out of the "average Joe´s" capabilities. The bitcoin system is far from being safe for regular computer users. I mean, FAR.

As I said before, the digital environment is very fragile; There are countless cases of people who lost large amounts of money in bitcoins, and as the use of bitcoin grows, more and more people will be stolen.

And what if there´s a big internet crash? What if there´s a solar storm that fries the whole grid? What it the government decides to make bitcoins illegal, which may happen eventually, do you think they would keep their value?

Mate, at least if someone hacked your bank account and stole U$500.000,00 from it, the bank would give your money back. If someone manages to steal your bitcoins, you´ll never see them again.

Listen to my advice folks, if you invest large sums of money in bitcoins, you´re crazy unless you know what you´re doing. Bitcoins are not safe for the average computer user and even computer savvy people had their bitcoins stolen; Just browse around the bitcoin forum.

Anyway, you don´t need to trust me on this one. Just browse around the web to see many horror stories regarding bitcoins. You´ll see many in the bitcoin forum itself.

Read this great article if you are interested; The Rise and Fall of Bitcoin (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/all/), then tell me if you think I´m wrong. Bitcoins are simply not stable and not safe.

Raf.

[indigopete]

I just said that, if they make it illegal, it will become worthless

Yes - I can see that, and also the issues with wallet theft and stuff. So you might be right that it's still a risky bet for large amounts of money.

At the same time, I really like the whole principle of the way the thing works. I think it's quite a bit of genius and I hope it takes off. I hope they manage to progressively solve the security problems and allow it to gain a foothold because I don't see anything else that's anywhere near being a 'people's currency'. Bitcoin just has all the necessary properties to be exactly that, plus it can't be 'bought' or 'hijacked' the way money issuing was by private interest parties.

I don't think its story has been fully written yet.

[RMorgan]

I just said that, if they make it illegal, it will become worthless

Yes - I can see that, and also the issues with wallet theft and stuff. So you might be right that it's still a risky bet for large amounts of money.

At the same time, I really like the whole principle of the way the thing works. I think it's quite a bit of genius and I hope it takes off. I hope they manage to progressively solve the security problems and allow it to gain a foothold because I don't see anything else that's anywhere near being a 'people's currency'. Bitcoin just has all the necessary properties to be exactly that, plus it can't be 'bought' or 'hijacked' the way money issuing was by private interest parties.

I don't think its story has been fully written yet.

Yeah, I believe it still can evolve into a secure currency as well, but for that to happen, many security measures will have to be taken. Frankly, I have no idea how they will manage to do that.

Nowadays, it´s just dangerous; It´s floating all the time pretty much like a bad stock market asset and hackers all over the world are creating specific ways to steal people´s wallet.

Also, the major problem is that it isn´t backed up by anything and it´s based on trust, pretty much like fiat currency, except that fiat currency has a whole bunch of legal mechanisms to protect it while bitcoin doesn´t have anything.

There´s a loooooong way to go if they want to make bitcoin a safe currency for everyone. If it ever happens. Judging by how people had lost trust on this system, including some of its biggest advocates, I don´t keep my hopes high.

Raf.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

ok so we have established that the banking world in general is unstable territory. Moving forward what other investment and safe houses can we work with ? lets look at other avenues to safeguard.

Let us also look at the basis of this thread. Its to warn people that its coming , go to your banks and take your cash out a little ata time till you have the bare minimum in there.

This way theres not so much of a loss when this thing hits.

In the mean time wise investments for people on the shoe string. Id say long store food and filtered water stores. For $30 you can buy a 100 litre water tank and capture rain water. This is free water and its missing most of the chemicals they put in it.

Lets face it if the fit hits the shan its food and water that will be commodities oh and fuel , id store at least 5 to 20 gallons of fuel.

What else is there from you guys that know this stuff ? lets give the bit coin debate a rest and look at practical things for the people to invest in that will help them.

N

[indigopete]

lets give the bit coin debate a rest and look at practical things for the people to invest in that will help them

I have to confess I haven't a clue apart from the obvious common sense things as you've just mentioned. I have a bit of a mortgage left so I just make sure I owe the bank more than they owe me (i.e. I've got less savings than the value of my mortgage, so no matter how fast money looses it's value, I'll still owe the same amount).

Don't own anything (apart from tangibles) and don't owe anything - that's my strategy :)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Ok well things i have stocked up on which are important imo

Bi Carb
Hydrogen Peroxide
Candles
Magnesium Sparker ( to start fire )
Fuel
Methanol or methylated spirits
Kerosine ( very handy stuff )

In terms of Food i have

Baked Beans and other tinned foods with 2 year expiry dates, 15 kg of rice. Enough for 2 people to last a week.

I have started growing basic foods in my yard eg: beans , carrots , cucumber , spinach , herbs , rocket , lettuce ... these are really easy to grow and maintain. You would be surprised how much i save by growing just these few items. We also have wild chikory growing and i have tried it in a salad and i havent died yet ... lol

All these things you should invest in ,they cost very little to get started other than some seeds and fertilizer. They will strech your dollar when you need it.

Also people with high rentals or city dwelling .. its so much cheaper and healthier to move to the country. A small farm house with some land is quater the cost of city living. And the city centres are reportedly going to get nasty. These are all the things you can consider but it starts with a consolidation of ideas and looking at whats around you.

Theres no denying that its beyond fear porn to effect us all. Its clear as day .. but when this stuff really hurts is when we are not prepared. take action , its your decision , dont be fearful , just act peacefully and do what is right to help your table. Act in a timely manner , sooner than later. Then relax as you know you have been prepared.


N

[indigopete]

Actually, I'm going to return to the Bitcoin debate because things seem to be developing in front of our very eyes.

The value of Bitcoin is soaring around the financial uncertainty in Cyprus. What does that tell us ? It tells us that none of the scaremongering reservations expressed about it will matter - it's value and integrity as an alternative currency are a self fulfilling prophecy if there's sufficient uptake.

The other thing it tells us is that - regardless of it's merits or otherwise - it's uptake may reach a critical mass which starts to undermine regular currency (i.e. people feel that their savings are safer in bitcoin than in regular bank accounts).

I'm sorry, but this is just showing what an archaeic idea precious metals are as an investment choice. They just aren't something people can readily escape to to get out from under the thumb of central banks. Max keiser seems to think that Bitcoin has the potential to "kill central banks" and I agree with him. Put it this way - whatever level of "fraud and hacking" BCT is subject to, regular cash is subject to the same or far worse.

However, as a form of currency, Bitcoin is a * million * times safer than cash - because it is not Fiat. Detractors don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around this very subtle point - the idea of scarcity, uniqueness and how cleverly these concepts have been implemented in a digital algorithm.

Even if they outlaw it they can't stop it from existing - I think there are interesting times ahead. (Just as an example - if you had invested $1000 in bitcoins 8 weeks ago you'd be sitting on $7000 worth by now).

http://blog.brocktice.com/2011/05/22/why-bitcoin-is-smart-and-not-a-scam/

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/03/21/bitcoin-value-hits-70-and-keeps-climbing-cyprus-bailout-connection-speculated/

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

I don't think that bit coin is the way to go, though it is an alternative. what they give they can take, sop if they want to shut it down, then really, what's stopping them?

The only thing that stops them from doing anything significant to shut us all down is their own greed. If you can take that away from them, they I think it puts you/us in a better position.

My advice fwiw (probably not much) is, that if you are going to 'invest' in something, make it something that provides a resource for you. I.e a generator, or solar panels, small wind turbine, your own seeds.

They cannot take the wind from you, nor can they block out the sun (i mean if they do we are all gone anyway) find ways to sustain yourself, and live outside the digital world as best as you can from these sources.
PVM

[indigopete]

what they give they can take, sop if they want to shut it down, then really, what's stopping them

Hi Positive Vibe Merchant

I'm just wondering if you really understand how Bitcoin works. I can't help thinking that if you did, you would not have made such a remark as "what they give they can take".

Also, why is it "not the way forward". Why look a gift horse in the mouth ?

I know quite a lot about software and the likes - I write it for a living - and I still can't see a way in which something like Bitcoin can be subtly 'stopped' as such. That's not to say there isn't one, but the thing is, they didn't stop the internet - because it was too prolific and it would look like overt fascism ( as opposed to creeping fascism which it possibly is). Well BCT is similar - it's just something that's "out there" which is going to go wherever people want it to go. The only way to really stop it is to try to convince people that it's risky or unsafe - which it isn't. Maybe the methods of storing it could be improved - also, it could loose all its value if it directly outlawed, but if it reaches a critical mass then it most definitely IS the "way to go" - there's nothing that comes close to contending as an alternative system IMHO.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

LMAO ! i love you guys , dont talk about Botcoin ok ... yeah ok Nanoo ... So Bitocin bla bla bla ..

Priceless ! '


N

[Positive Vibe Merchant]

Apologies, what I was refering to is the internet, and all things digital. if the decision is made to shut it all down, what happens to your bitcoins if you cannot access the account? Even if it is a re-boot, everything gets wiped.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I don't think that bit coin is the way to go, though it is an alternative. what they give they can take, sop if they want to shut it down, then really, what's stopping them?

The only thing that stops them from doing anything significant to shut us all down is their own greed. If you can take that away from them, they I think it puts you/us in a better position.

My advice fwiw (probably not much) is, that if you are going to 'invest' in something, make it something that provides a resource for you. I.e a generator, or solar panels, small wind turbine, your own seeds.

They cannot take the wind from you, nor can they block out the sun (i mean if they do we are all gone anyway) find ways to sustain yourself, and live outside the digital world as best as you can from these sources.
PVM

good points.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

My 2 cents

regarding Bitcoin , if you were to make an investment as some do ,its wise not to sink all of your liquidity into it. So as a rule of thumb only invest what you can afford to lose IF something goes belly up.

Bitcoin has a sentiment of changing the power structure of the banking cartels over to the people , its why it was designed and its really ruffling some feathers. Wether they ban it or make it this or that is moot really. They bnned so many things that just made the price of what was banned sky rocket and is still avail. Where there is a market there is a way.

so if you had a total of say 1000 dollars in total liquidity you would take this out of your standard bank, close the account. Then spread your portflio, eg

$200 on Bitcoin
$300 on long term food stores ( that woould be enough to feed 2 people for a month )
$150 on tangibles
and the rest readily avail for needs that may arise.

so what you have done is spread risk over from medium risk to low risk investments , the addiage is if you were to lose the 200 on bitcoin it wouldnt really hurt too much as its only 1/5 of your total asset pool. With the remaining 4 /5 you can still get by .. byt if it takes off and you can double your money then you can trde out and have a profit to show for it and support a new currency thats designed to give control back to the people.

N

[ThePythonicCow]

Bitcoin. possibly the best option atm.

Clif High's latest wujo agrees with you: http://www.halfpasthuman.com/wujo/clifswujo3252013bitcoin.mp3

(Caution - salty language :).)

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I never thought id see the day when a " wujo " agreed with me ... lol

intersting charachter , salty, sweet and sour too .

thank you Paul

Naniu

[Conchis]

A lot of this debate seems, to me at least, to depend on the depth of the crisis. If we're talking about a true crash, then few things beyond food will have any value. You think you'd have to trade a kilo of gold for a kilo of food, you'd have to trade every bitcoin you'd ever own for a kilo of food. If the crash is just more of the same slide we've been seeing, then something like bitcoin might be a part of the answer. I'm thinking that having a bit of food that I can both barter and just plain old give away is an advantage.

[GrnEggsNHam]

I think everyone here needs to take a step back from this and broaden their individual perspectives. It was a great start and push to begin discussions of dissolving banking interests. However the intent was side swiped by this "currency" debate.

No currency is the best answer here. Not physical nor digital. The only reason it's even brought up in the debate is due to our cultural programming. We have been nurtured and raised on currency and the idea behind it(CONTROL). To the point most can't even imagine human life existing without it. Ask yourself this. Why do humans seek reward for producing? Why is the production not reward in itself?

If you can change the outlook and create a culture where production is not tied with payment(reward) then you are starting to head in the right direction.

As for preparing and such I would advise everyone invest in themselves. Acquire skills and knowledge outside of your comfort zone. I will be the first to tell you that this is not easy. The temptations of our current culture are abound and can easily sidetrack your progress or even dilute your passion for learning. Take it one step at a time and don't be afraid to feel good about yourself.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone but I have been waiting for this terrible system to disintegrate ever since I was 11 or 12 and "learned the value of a dollar". What a bunch of malarkey :wizard:

I found this in the bitcoin thread and I feel it is a nice accompaniment to my post.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57353-Will-Bitcoin-Kill-the-Federal-Reserve


Hi,

IMO only true abundance (and that is necessarily energy abundance) will make the FEDs (and everything we think of as "economy") obsolete.

Using any kind of currency (time dollars, bitcoin, dollars, you name it!) has the background, unchallenged assumption that you need to work for a living, that you need a currency to keep track of scarce resources so you can tell who deserves what amount... This is old (very very old) paradigm. I challenge that! Give me energy, I could not care less of any form of currency or accounting or book keeping or whatever...

[conk]

Just to add - although Gold and Silver have a high value just now, while there is a fully functioning currency, what happens when that currency collapses ?

....
Just sayin. The world is an unpredictable place. I vote for Bitcoin.Gold and silver have been considered real money for 5,000 years. Bitcoin has been around for, what, 30 minutes? People will ALWAYS recognize gold as payment, always. Granted, food, water, ammo, guns, land, supplies, tools will be incredibly valuable and even preferable in the months right after an event, but soon some stability will return and gold will resume it's place at the top of the heap.

[Gardener]

Honey is a good investment :)
and wooly jumpers, blankets etc (if in northern hemisphere)
Get a skill in your hands to exchange for food
Barter has always been a good currency
A good spade and some quick lime.
Get to know your neighbours well.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

This is good stuff , these little jewels of info will help peole who are stuck for ideas.

I whole heartedly agree with being contect with the achievement rathr than getting some credits to buy a new i phone .. ( i cannot stand i phones )

Excellent debate

N

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Money in the bank, paper certificates and cash may become valueless due to the hyperinflation that is likely to come.

In a severe crash, long term storage food (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=736), a water filter (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=736), garden tools, non-hybrid seeds, soap and a wood stove (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=669) are a better investments than gold and silver for basic survival needs.

After purchasing that which is needed for basic survival, if there is any money left over, gold and silver coins in your hands are a good way to protect what remains of your cash. For those who can, purchasing a debt free hobby farm away from the cities may be the best investment of all.

Gold and silver have more than a thousand year history of being stored value. It may not be possible to convert gold and silver to food if grocery stores are closed due to food riots and empty grocery stores, but when a new unknown system replaces the current system, gold and silver will still have value. Does anyone think people would barter away food for gold and silver after the grocery stores are empty and the supply trucks no longer run? If you are lucky, maybe someone will trade you a loaf of stale bread for a 1 ounce gold coin. That is just common sense.

Gold and silver will be a storehouse of value *after* the grocery stores are restocked, however long that takes. Could be years.

Bitcoin is worthless during internet outage, and your computer can be hacked, losing all value stored in bitcoins. Only gamble with what you can afford to lose.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Money in the bank, paper certificates and cash may become valueless due to the hyperinflation that is likely to come.

In a severe crash, long term storage food (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=736), a water filter (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=736), garden tools, non-hybrid seeds, soap and a wood stove (http://ronmauer.net/blog/?page_id=669) are a better investments than gold and silver for basic survival needs.

After purchasing that which is needed for basic survival, if there is any money left over, gold and silver coins in your hands are a good way to protect what remains of your cash. For those who can, purchasing a debt free hobby farm away from the cities may be the best investment of all.

Gold and silver have more than a thousand year history of being stored value. It may not be possible to convert gold and silver to food if grocery stores are closed due to food riots and empty grocery stores, but when a new unknown system replaces the current system, gold and silver will still have value. Does anyone think people would barter away food for gold and silver after the grocery stores are empty and the supply trucks no longer run? If you are lucky, maybe someone will trade you a loaf of stale bread for a 1 ounce gold coin. That is just common sense.

Gold and silver will be a storehouse of value *after* the grocery stores are restocked, however long that takes. Could be years.

Bitcoin is worthless during internet outage, and your computer can be hacked, losing all value stored in bitcoins. Only gamble with what you can afford to lose.

This is IMO a comprehensive and valuable post. i would have liked to be able to word this myself but thank you RMAUERSR for this.

I have concluded an experiment with Bitcoin

2 months ago i bought 6 bitcoins @ $52 each. 2 weeks later i sold 3 @ $128 each , this covered my position. Then a few weeks after that my wallet was hacked , the company i bought them from Instawallet has no idea how to recover them and the rest of my coins are gone.

This concludes my experiment

N
N

[Azt]

Food for thoughts ...

$1 billion of gold has been shipped from New York to South Africa this year.

http://qz.com/83396/1-billion-of-gold-has-been-shipped-from-new-york-to-south-africa-this-year

[fmkmrf]

Yes, closed all of ours and open a small account in local trust co. leave no more than $200 in it. Also stopped taking all credit cards and cheques.
We need to change the system totally.