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Sammy
27th March 2013, 03:27
Ok, we each have our own definition for what a psychopath is. I have mine and it is far more than what most "normal folks" think it might be.

Yes, there is what you find in the most dictionaries and Wikipedia, etc. But then there's what some of my former shrinks would consider as a definition for a psychopath which actually is the labeling of a type of person whose mind functions much differently than the norm. Far, far differently.

More precisely, how a psychopath is able to manage his actions in part due to his method of managing what is generated by his various components which manifests into what others then try to consider to be the overall mindset behind what then becomes the outputs of a being - the thoughts, words (written and spoken) and ultimately the deeds.

And I have been searching for some time now as to how I can label myself a psychopath and how I am able to be a "good person" because most people cannot imagine a psychopath capable of being good.

Why I know I am a psychopath is because I am able to "be" that awareness behind all that arises within my awareness which includes my own physical body.

That's the whole key to being a successful psychopath. You simply know with no doubt you are not this physical body through which you are manifesting into this physical world. And so, you are able to decide when you want to "pretend" to be this body and thus play the game of this physical world and conversely when you do not want to play in this world. And you can always make that choice with one exception - that being when you are subject to extreme (undesired) torture where even the best psychopath would do anything to stop the pain, even if it is only mental torture.

The whole key here though is having that ability to switch instantly into that mindset (because the psychopath knows 100% with no doubt that nothing in the material realm matters in the bigger picture). Their core screams this fact to the mind of the psychopath when there's a call for action that is clearly not what the actions would be of a "normal" human. But the actions of a psychopath all come from decision at their deepest levels unless they descend into their pure animal state where then the animal takes over. A wise psychopath walks (acts... like an actor as its all directed from their mind) on the safe side of that fine line between the realm of normalcy (the world the psychopath judges is "normal" in the eyes of "normal" people) and the world of the beast fully unleashed.

I believe I am a wise psychopath. Of course, only after the demise of my physical body can history tell the tale of whether or not I crossed that line and went too far in doing so. But do not interpret my words here to imply I may be prone to violence or have some strange desire to hurt another being (human or otherwise) physically, because I am not that type of psychopath.

But I am very prone to twisting folks up with words to where they resort to violence (have done this many, many times - even with mafiosos) but I also have this strange talent to instantly shift the energies and I guess I have been fortunate somehow to still be alive. If you only knew the stories or better still... if only you had been there - haha.

Anyways, I have written this lovely OP to begin the conversation regarding psychopathy.

****Please, understand, if you pull out the classic definitions, you will only be considering a sub set of the group of humanity I hope to discuss here of which I am a part and of which I am fully comfortable in calling "psychopaths" and I am not alone in so doing.

Be aware that the very best psychopaths are rarely considered by casual acquaintances to be psychopaths but when you really get close to one, and start to see how the mind of the psychopath works - realizing (and sometimes with utter horror) that this mind does not work like "normal" folks, you begin to realize that the person is definitely a psychopath.

So hopefully this OP (in normal justonewookiee "monster post" style) can get the ball rolling.

Heeeeeeeeeeeere's Johhny! (can't you just see my smile?)

gripreaper
27th March 2013, 04:49
OK, I'll bite;

A psychopath is a creature of foreign origin, not indigenous to this planet, who has no heart or soul, has no access above the three terrestrial chakras, whose connection to the celestial is completely severed. The psychopath operates in the terrestrial energy centers without the benefit of boundary, and therefore sees the whole universe as an extension of the self, and therefore has no empathy for "other" because to them, THERE IS NO "OTHER".

The psychopath only cares about personal power with which to accumulate material wealth, through fear, anguish, horror, pain and death. Their elixir of life is satiating their own hedonism, by taking from others anything they want, sucking energy like vampires, without any regard for the sanctity of life, for they see no value in living except for themselves. They are severed from their right brain feminine aspects and operate only from the left brain patriarchal brain, without any access to the higher spiritual centers.

In other words, these inhuman foreign creatures, are selfish, arrogant, murderous, callous, greedy, sick, cold blooded, heartless, inhumane, ruthless, blood thirsty, murderous, pedophile shapeshifting reptilian, animalistic oligarchical power mongers, who are reprobate and cannot be changed or rehabilitated or saved or made to become empathic. Impossible.

Jeffrey
27th March 2013, 04:49
Hello Chester,

I think "psychopath" is a label, just like any other label. It can be a hollow term, or it can reflect one's ability to occupy this term and imbue it with the qualities in which it is supposed to symbolize.

If you have changed your qualia, then you have outgrown the term in my opinion.

The label shouldn't be retrofitted for your new state because you've broken that mold.

"Good person" was probably a label you've carried your whole life, it was just in the shadow of the "psychopath" label. I think people carry many labels -- like the layers of an onion.

I know we are getting philosophical here, but even names are labels. The ultimate label is "I".

From time to time, I've thought that I could be "bi-polar". Then I just reminded myself that I didn't want to fill that label (this is still a process that I go through occasionally, which has gotten better throughout the years).

It's tough living in this society and maintaining sanity. I think that's a misnomer because the label of "sanity" in this society doesn't reflect any ability to imbue the term with the qualities in which it's supposed to represent. So, here we are, truly sane people trying to fill a societally sane label that isn't really sane at all. This makes me feel crazy.

Then I remember, society is insane. In which case I become sane once again.


Objectivity and subjectivity were traps that people fell into. I prefer the terms "insanity" and "outsanity." Insanity is your life inside yourself. It's very private and you don't allow anybody in there because it's so crazy. Every so often I find somebody that I can talk to about it. When you go into the isolation tank outsanity is gone. Now, outsanity is what we're doing now, it's exchanging thoughts and so on. I'm not talking about my insanity and you're not talking about yours. Now, if our insanities overlap then we can be friends.
-John C. Lilly

I will add that just because someone may experience psychotic disturbances doesn't mean that they are a psychopath.

Hazel
27th March 2013, 06:38
Vivek you have so nailed it in that stigma diluting response to what psychopathy 'is'...

After all .. we are but cosmic forces in the material world attempting to adjust to a socialised expectation of who we are...
What bollocks we are immersed in.. when all we 'is'.. is a force of Nature in the illusion of 'separation'.. and then we so often emerge forth, only to find ourselves fractured through a trained lens of self dissolution. Is not self dissolution / psychopathy a means to an end = self knowledge without the boundaries of 'moral/socialised constraint'=the self sabotage of the belittled. Is living beyond constraint so horrific? Is freedom a state beyond self doubt.. ?

And yes... the term 'insanity' in so many ways feared and misunderstood 'out there' represents, after all.. uncertainty / the natural state of human existence

If the 'psychopath' asserts control over that uncertainty in amoral/questionable ways... who are we 'the lost to self'.. to question? Excuse the convolution... but it seems to fit.

To my eye.. this thread is an opportunity to question self/to see beyond limitations.. lets explore and be honest about the challenge, so opportune here..

If you are game to name the layer of your own onion of self knowing to this point, regards your survival techniques over/amongst others..

Let the naming begin..

Gardener
27th March 2013, 09:55
Hi Chester,
I don't know why you seem hell bent on aquiring the diagnosis and label of psychopath, perhaps you would like to achieve some fame and noteriety or maybe just plain old attention grabbing (feeding of another type) but I haven't yet seen any evidence that you 'might' be this lifelong, unchanging, non-treatable, aberation. To continually subject the people of this forum to you trying to convince them of such is not productive.

What Grip wrote above is fundamentally correct, the main difference in psychopaths is the degree of intelligence, the less intelligent ones are the ones who end up in jail because they weren't bright enough to not get caught. (16% in forensic settings) The bright ones (successful psychopaths) go undetected, unless of course one is on the sharp end of their unrelenting pathological behaviours, ie. partners, family, and associates even can fall prey particularly in commercial environments.

Its important to remember there is a huge difference between an essential psychopath, and a person with psychopathic traits, the former can not ever be rehabilitated period, the latter can, because their behaviour was a result of some horrendously bad experiences. Anyone can exhibit psychopathic traits under enough pressure or influence, in much the same way that everyone has narcissistic traits, but doesn't mean they are a malignant narcissist.

A psychopath cannot be loved better, will not respond to kindness (unless you have something they want) but will almost without exception turn round and bite you on the arse, steal your money, lie to you, and leave you feeling 'worked over' and thinking wtf just happened. Its not a joke Chester to endow these people with heart and soul, they have no insight into the results of their actions because to them you do not exist as a human being with feelings. They will say and do anything to get what they want in any way necessary.

So Chester, do you still want to think you are a psychopath? If so I would like you to tell us all, once and for all, so we can get on with the purpose of this forum. I do not speak lightly.

Btw, here is a link to a PDF of a book still valued and referenced in acccademic study on the subject.

The Mask of Sanity
by Hervey Cleckley

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

There are a lot of good reference works on psychopathy, but an easy read is 'Without Conscience' by Robert Hare, he is the world authority on the subject. My forensic psychology supervisor Roxanne Khan was trained by him so I guess i am a bit biased.

sigma6
27th March 2013, 12:50
Cool,

I think I get where you are coming from, but I am going to have to really give this thought, I might suggest that what you are referring to could be a subset of "psychopathy" (and I am not sure if that is the word, but for now I can see how you are relating it) I suggest subset, since the major definition has been, more or less already taken, and by definition this is a more specialized definition of that larger whole. And I do like the idea there could be a whole range of variation, absolutely. And of course I can see the potential for huge misunderstanding that will ensue in using such a word. This reminds me of the opening premise in Ayn Rand's book "The Virtue Of Selfishness" when asked why she used the word, she responded something like "because of the response it would garner" i.e. she was making a prediction of human perception and values etc... Anyhow I like this idea, because I have tried to articulate this kind of thing in my own head, not sure if I considered the word psychopathy, but if I did, it may have been why I didn't pursue it further. Again, I do feel I am getting the gist of what you are trying to articulate. And this is not an easy thing to articulate... will see if I can add more upon further contemplation of this... my intuition says there is an existing corresponding concept out there to describe this...

spiritguide
27th March 2013, 13:48
What role does EGO play in the game of labels? Where is the dividing line in labels between selfless and selfish? Is any or all easily compartmentalised within any label? We are all able to fit within any label/condition depending upon the environment and conditions at the moment, at any given time. We are our own keepers or givers. IMHO

northstar
27th March 2013, 15:22
The psychopath only cares about personal power with which to accumulate material wealth, through fear, anguish, horror, pain and death. Their elixir of life is satiating their own hedonism, by taking from others anything they want, sucking energy like vampires, without any regard for the sanctity of life, for they see no value in living except for themselves. They are severed from their right brain feminine aspects and operate only from the left brain patriarchal brain, without any access to the higher spiritual centers.

In other words, these inhuman foreign creatures, are selfish, arrogant, murderous, callous, greedy, sick, cold blooded, heartless, inhumane, ruthless, blood thirsty, murderous, pedophile shapeshifting reptilian, animalistic oligarchical power mongers, who are reprobate and cannot be changed or rehabilitated or saved or made to become empathic. Impossible.

Eloquent and accurate!!





A psychopath cannot be loved better, will not respond to kindness (unless you have something they want) but will almost without exception turn round and bite you on the arse, steal your money, lie to you, and leave you feeling 'worked over' and thinking wtf just happened. Its not a joke Chester to endow these people with heart and soul, they have no insight into the results of their actions because to them you do not exist as a human being with feelings. They will say and do anything to get what they want in any way necessary.

So Chester, do you still want to think you are a psychopath? If so I would like you to tell us all, once and for all, so we can get on with the purpose of this forum. I do not speak lightly.




This is an insightful assessment, grounded in established literature. I suspect that the OP has not read widely on the topic of psychopathy.

buckminster fuller
27th March 2013, 16:32
A shrink definition would be that a psychopath is an egomaniac being that suffered traumas in his earlier period.

Gardener
27th March 2013, 17:34
Not necessarily, essential psychopaths are born deficient, but egomania yes pretty much, though that applies more to narcissism, egomania doesn't necessarily mean a person has no conscience, lol it gets tricky and there can be overlap.

A shrink definition would be that a psychopath is an egomaniac being that suffered traumas in his earlier period.

161803398
27th March 2013, 20:21
There's an interesting video discussing psychopaths (particularly the wall street variety) and that people are rendering themselves psychopathic with the use of some prescription drugs. Apparently the brain of an actual psychopath will actually show up different on a cat scan. One of the scientists was asked to describe a psychopath and he said he had helped Nicole Kidman play a psychopath in a movie. He said this: the character should see a child injured in an accident on the street; people gather around; one of the people is the child's mother who is distraught; instead of looking at the child, the character watches the mother. Then she goes home and into her bathroom. She looks in the mirror and starts making faces to imitate the expressions on the face of the child's mother. This is a psychopath.

buckminster fuller
27th March 2013, 20:40
Not necessarily, essential psychopaths are born deficient, but egomania yes pretty much, though that applies more to narcissism, egomania doesn't necessarily mean a person has no conscience, lol it gets tricky and there can be overlap.

A shrink definition would be that a psychopath is an egomaniac being that suffered traumas in his earlier period.

Yes egomania is a strong form of narcissism. (like homosexuality) I don't see how one can be born deficient, we can pay the price of trans-generational deeds, but this is not a deficiency per say. I don't think the OP is actually talking about psychopathy, but schizophrenia which is much more common. I'm a tad schizophrenic like many of us curious souls.

Sammy
29th March 2013, 17:06
Vivek you have so nailed it in that stigma diluting response to what psychopathy 'is'...

After all .. we are but cosmic forces in the material world attempting to adjust to a socialised expectation of who we are...
What bollocks we are immersed in.. when all we 'is'.. is a force of Nature in the illusion of 'separation'.. and then we so often emerge forth, only to find ourselves fractured through a trained lens of self dissolution. Is not self dissolution / psychopathy a means to an end = self knowledge without the boundaries of 'moral/socialised constraint'=the self sabotage of the belittled. Is living beyond constraint so horrific? Is freedom a state beyond self doubt.. ?

And yes... the term 'insanity' in so many ways feared and misunderstood 'out there' represents, after all.. uncertainty / the natural state of human existence

If the 'psychopath' asserts control over that uncertainty in amoral/questionable ways... who are we 'the lost to self'.. to question? Excuse the convolution... but it seems to fit.

To my eye.. this thread is an opportunity to question self/to see beyond limitations.. lets explore and be honest about the challenge, so opportune here..

If you are game to name the layer of your own onion of self knowing to this point, regards your survival techniques over/amongst others..

Let the naming begin..

Thank you, recap1, for seeing ahead of where I hoped to take this.

I have not yet been able to reply because I have yet to find the best way to clear up the various misunderstandings that have occurred in many of the posts in this thread... but again, recap1 - you reacted and responded as I had hoped some posters would.

I did my best in the OP to make sure folks here understood I do not agree with the term "psychopath" as so much of the "psychology/psychiatry" industry wants us to define it and my theory as to why they do is to cover up the actual roots of psychopathy so that the vast majority of psychopaths that pretty much run the show here on earth (whether you agree with this view or not, is no concern to me) can remain in charge and under cover.

There are "thinkers" who think outside of the "formal box" who understand this like I do and one in particular has written quite an interesting book on the matter.

The Wisdom of Psychopaths What Saints, Spies and Serial Killers can teach us about success

by Kevin Dutton

For quite some time I have suspected I am a psychopath - NO... not the "psychpath" as described by gripreaper (though I am definitely an avid fan of the 2nd chakra) nor the clinical definition I believe Gardener refers to. And yes, I am quite narcissistic and yes, I love attention... but neither of those are why I started this thread - recap1 hit the mark further than I had imagined might occur... I hope we go further here too.

Anyways, if you read the above noted book and knew me well like some of my good friends, you would be quite open minded that yes, indeed, Chester may very well be a psychopath... one who has chosen to live in positive, right relationship with all and the All... simply a wise decision and nothing more.

Most of my closest friends are also very much psychopaths according to what a psychopath is from the point of view of Kevin Dutton.

Sammy
29th March 2013, 21:51
Hi Chester,
I don't know why you seem hell bent on aquiring the diagnosis and label of psychopath, perhaps you would like to achieve some fame and noteriety or maybe just plain old attention grabbing (feeding of another type) but I haven't yet seen any evidence that you 'might' be this lifelong, unchanging, non-treatable, aberation. To continually subject the people of this forum to you trying to convince them of such is not productive.

What Grip wrote above is fundamentally correct, the main difference in psychopaths is the degree of intelligence, the less intelligent ones are the ones who end up in jail because they weren't bright enough to not get caught. (16% in forensic settings) The bright ones (successful psychopaths) go undetected, unless of course one is on the sharp end of their unrelenting pathological behaviours, ie. partners, family, and associates even can fall prey particularly in commercial environments.

Its important to remember there is a huge difference between an essential psychopath, and a person with psychopathic traits, the former can not ever be rehabilitated period, the latter can, because their behaviour was a result of some horrendously bad experiences. Anyone can exhibit psychopathic traits under enough pressure or influence, in much the same way that everyone has narcissistic traits, but doesn't mean they are a malignant narcissist.

A psychopath cannot be loved better, will not respond to kindness (unless you have something they want) but will almost without exception turn round and bite you on the arse, steal your money, lie to you, and leave you feeling 'worked over' and thinking wtf just happened. Its not a joke Chester to endow these people with heart and soul, they have no insight into the results of their actions because to them you do not exist as a human being with feelings. They will say and do anything to get what they want in any way necessary.

So Chester, do you still want to think you are a psychopath? If so I would like you to tell us all, once and for all, so we can get on with the purpose of this forum. I do not speak lightly.

Btw, here is a link to a PDF of a book still valued and referenced in acccademic study on the subject.

The Mask of Sanity
by Hervey Cleckley

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

There are a lot of good reference works on psychopathy, but an easy read is 'Without Conscience' by Robert Hare, he is the world authority on the subject. My forensic psychology supervisor Roxanne Khan was trained by him so I guess I am a bit biased.

As you can see, I waited several days to post again. In part to reflect carefully on all these excellent posts. You are right, Gardener. I may have the ability to emulate the state of a psychopath at times but I am no classic psychopath. The more I have read of Dutton's book today, I am finding more exceptions than connections.

I had a reason to explore this subject that had just about zero to do with me, personally. I hope we can continue anyways. I cannot reveal my goal now as it would taint the thread.