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Fred Steeves
13th April 2013, 20:05
Just stumbled across this old thread I started nearly 2 years ago here (May 2011), and was suddenly quite curious as to how it might play out now in comparison:

"The long awaited shift has occurred, the balance of power on Earth has finally shifted as well. Humanity, having awakened, is no longer suffering under it's endless oppression, and is now free to live life as they please.

TPTW have been identified, each and every major player. Every soul on the planet is now fully informed as to their true history, and what has been done over the many millennia to them and their ancestors.

A jury panel of 12 highly respected people from around the world has been set up to decide what the consequences should be for these oppressors, and you have been chosen to be a member of this panel due to your understanding of these matters, and your spiritual awareness.

The arguments have been made. The guilty now bow their heads before you, and you can hear a pin drop as the whole world stops, and waits to hear the recommendations for sentencing.

This is your chance to set things right once and for all, what would your recommendation be?"

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Cheers,
Fred

christian
13th April 2013, 20:28
Other. For if it would really come to the point where they would stand before a judge and their true history would be known, then a massive shift in awareness of the general population must have occured first to facilitate that. With this new awareness, there would be a solution that would involve the utilization of higher discernment and abilities, I think we'd come up with something truly ingenious then.

Orph
13th April 2013, 20:33
Well, you didn't say what you would do. :) Since I don't believe in punishment, I wouldn't be sentencing them to some kind of prison or anything. I would do nothing to them at all. Since we all are free from this oppression, that means they no longer have any power over us. They would have to become "one of us" or they would simply shrivel and die of their own accord. (Of course, I could be wrong)!! Maybe it's not such a good idea for me to be on the jury panel.

Star Tsar
13th April 2013, 20:34
Hey Fred & Fellow Avalonians,
I voted for Exile, Having given it some more thought I wish to change my vote.
If we have "awakened" why would we feel the need to punish Reckless/Undesirable/Criminal behaviour?
I feel its better to turn the other cheek & lets just all live in peace & harmony like we never have been able to before!
For this reason I'd like to abstain...

:eek:

CD7
13th April 2013, 20:34
Welp hopefully ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the old world remained... so court system who? Prison wht? The ptb Who? lol ALL tht would matter to me is tht there IS CHANGE.

gripreaper
13th April 2013, 20:48
Who was it who said, a problem cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness which created it? Therefore, the answer lies in the next level of consciousness, because courts, judgment, punishment and such notions are part of a dying paradigm and would not exist.

Part of the transformation, is we become transparent, all is brought into the light of day, and separation is found out to be what it truly is, a figment of the illusion.

So, if we are all godsparks of the one, all a light filament of the whole, then these godsparks, no longer playing the game of duality and polarization, would not provide contrast from which to view the polarities, and would just be, as they are now, part of a co-creation.

Only difference is we would be conscious. And therein lies my 2000'th post at Avalon.

william r sanford72
13th April 2013, 20:59
i feel that being left behind...from the shift itself would consume whatever they had left of a soul..spirit..that moment of realization of what they lost.....potent stuff. thats why i choose other.

Fred Steeves
13th April 2013, 21:07
Well, you didn't say what you would do. :)

Well no I didn't Orph, mainly because of not wanting to influence anything. But now that you've called me out, :) I voted other as well.

Sammy
13th April 2013, 21:11
Other. For if it would really come to the point where they would stand before a judge and their true history would be known, then a massive shift in awareness of the general population must have occurred first to facilitate that. With this new awareness, there would be a solution that would involve the utilization of higher discernment and abilities, I think we'd come up with something truly ingenious then.

I could not imagine a better answer than this - wow dude... just wow.

and wow again... every single post after too - congrats on 2,000 gripreaper - all always quality posts.

great thread Fred.

yes - "other."

Deej
13th April 2013, 21:16
Can I pick a time a little further out in this timeline? How about a time when humanity has awakened to the conclusion that there is no evil, bad, oppression, etc... there is only perspective on what is?

Pick any historical event you want, say, Hiroshima and the atomic bomb. We can read the history books from our schools and see the necessity for that bomb for USA and ally interests... from the Japanese point of view? Not so much... Do you really think that Japanese school children are taught that bomb saved the day!

Take any event and you can build a case for different perspectives on it, IF your morality allows you to think outside your moral constraints.

My particular bent on all the events that are taking place is that they are necessary! I make that statement with the full knowledge that it might come with great resistance. It is not a widely held understanding!

I encourage people to let go of their judgements and let the fear of "not knowing all the answers" wash over them and be replaced with the confidence that everything happens as it should.

Everyone, from sage to elite, is playing their part in this wonderful drama we call life. If you feel it is necessary to protest on Washington or work in your garden and let the politicians handle the politics, then play your part. All the roles are important.

Without delving deeper into my philosophy behind these statements. The question was asked what I would do... and I'll stick to the topic of this thread and answer. This is only my opinion and I don't ask anyone to concur...

I would thank these evil bastards for bringing this corrupt, unsustainable system to its knees and wish them a happy journey as they are carted off to be publicly be-headed or imprisoned or rehabilitated or whatever the ones making that decision decided.

Deciding their fate is not my particular role... and I am thankful for that!

:rantoff:

Deej
13th April 2013, 21:21
Welp hopefully ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the old world remained... so court system who? Prison wht? The ptb Who? lol ALL tht would matter to me is tht there IS CHANGE.

That is a beautiful summary to what took me paragraphs to say! Thanks

Sidney
13th April 2013, 21:30
Full and ABSOLUTE RESTITUTION..... Pay us all the money they have stolen from us. Rehabilitate the earth to its original pristine state. Reinstate a fair and realistic law based on our rights as citizens. Put balance back into the economy. Get rid of harmful pharmaceuticals, and allow only beneficial healing modalities be used. After they do all of that, then they should be hung upside down by their ($&)@(*+ eternally.

crosby
13th April 2013, 21:33
i said 'other' because here is what i would like to see: every person arrested and formally charged should be placed in a prison facility surrounding with mandatory hard labor for 18 hours a day. they should have to suffer the same way that others have had to suffer under their regime. no parole, no pardon, and no reprieve. for the rest of their lives they should have to live this way. or not live. oh yes, i would like electronic surveillance going on 24 hours a day.........you know, the kind that messes with the brain, maybe makes them suicidal or homicidal and they can try to kill each other every day..... no escape, no where to hide...... this is what i envision.
regards, corson

music
13th April 2013, 21:36
I started a similar thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?37916-The-Ultimate-Moral-Dilemma) a while ago too, though I think people were unable to see the point of the exercise. We consider moral dilemmas as a "practice run", so that when we are presented with a tough decision, we stand more chance of making the right one. This ties in with this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54752-Can-We-Avoid-Bad-Luck) also, where my mother's advice to me to "prepare for the worst and it won't happen" is expressed - because energetically we have learned the lesson first so no longer need the experience.

The reaction I received to my moral dilemma thread is actually a good example of pack dynamics and elitism within a community, where an alpha male type member came in and criticised me because he misunderstood the intent of the thread and so a bandwagon was created. The issue with mine perhaps too was that in mine, I asked people to consider what they would do if offered a chance to join the oppressors, rather than cast themselves as magnanimous judges with power of life or death over them. All in all, an interesting exploration of human pyschology, for me at least.

BrianEn
13th April 2013, 21:39
I went with rehabilitation. It just seemed like the right option. Now if they can't be rehabbed Life Without depending on the severity of their involvments. In the end I'm not realy sure. Case to case I believe becuse I can't think you can fix a problem with the same attitudes that created it. So in the end just don't know.

Sunny-side-up
13th April 2013, 21:58
If after the shift there was anything left like ego! Well at the very most I would have shocked them by holding there hands while giving them a light kiss on the forehead and a smile, that would be a shock ha.

But I think along the lines of christian's =


Other. For if it would really come to the point where they would stand before a judge and their true history would be known, then a massive shift in awareness of the general population must have occured first to facilitate that. With this new awareness, there would be a solution that would involve the utilization of higher discernment and abilities, I think we'd come up with something truly ingenious then.

and the gripreaper's =


Who was it who said, a problem cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness which created it? Therefore, the answer lies in the next level of consciousness, because courts, judgment, punishment and such notions are part of a dying paradigm and would not exist.

I voted Other.
Interesting post Fred, liked it

BrianEn
13th April 2013, 22:04
If after the shift there was anything left like ego! Well at the very most I would have shocked them by holding there hands while giving them a light kiss on the forehead and a smile, that would be a shock ha.

But I think along the lines of christian's =


Other. For if it would really come to the point where they would stand before a judge and their true history would be known, then a massive shift in awareness of the general population must have occured first to facilitate that. With this new awareness, there would be a solution that would involve the utilization of higher discernment and abilities, I think we'd come up with something truly ingenious then.

and the gripreaper's =


Who was it who said, a problem cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness which created it? Therefore, the answer lies in the next level of consciousness, because courts, judgment, punishment and such notions are part of a dying paradigm and would not exist.

I voted Other.
Interesting post Fred, liked it


I think it was Albert Einstein that said. I heard it before I knew who said it.

CivilDawn
13th April 2013, 22:25
With this new awareness, there would be a solution that would involve the utilization of higher discernment and abilities, I think we'd come up with something truly ingenious then.

A hard yes to this statement.

With this awareness would a panel of deciders even exist?
With this awareness these beings would never have power over us again because we would have a full knowing our origins, our present state of being and our potential.
Would we want to impose on their free will? I don't believe I would. Punishment would be succumbing to the fear of being hurt again. Such an action might be a step backward from this new awakening.

I would want to spend more time connecting with and repairing the earth and its inhabitants than deciding what to do with "deviants".

I vote other, as I am still in the same state of awareness.

Mandala
13th April 2013, 22:42
My ultimate choice would to reincarnate to learn the lesson of the harm and hurt they cause. They signed up to be the villain last time , now they can be the victims.

Ba-ba-Ra
13th April 2013, 23:01
How about having them do community work service and at the same time require them do to some reading, watching of videos, etc., that would help bring them to a place of understanding that there is a better way.

gripreaper
13th April 2013, 23:02
How about forcing them to listen to AC/DC every day for 24 hours? They'd go crazy in a couple days.

Sérénité
13th April 2013, 23:16
I didn't vote previously as I was viewing as a non-member, but I would then and now have voted 'other'.

I believe oppressors feed off fear and control. Take away their control and have no fear of them and they become nothing. One thing a person of this nature fears the greatest is being a nothing or nobody, with no power or control...that is their karma, what goes around comes around. They get to live with their conscience and what good is left of their soul, providing they had one to start with!

BrianEn
13th April 2013, 23:19
Make them watch the entire series of Coronation Street. An okay show but for 16 hours a day. Maybe 20 and sleep deprive them.

Kryztian
13th April 2013, 23:26
I would probably go on the middle ground of these two possible answers:

1) Truth and Reconciliation - Detain the perpetrators and their accomplices and demand a full history of the truth. Once most of their testimony has been given and it has been verified, allow them their freedom, however, they would still be required to testify as long as they are on this planet. They would be forced to live in the sunlight of the truth and live amongst those whom they have deceived, instead of allowing them to hide in a dark cell somewhere. (I guess this part is a vote for REHABILITATION, although it might take MANY incarnations considering some of their deeds.)

2) Consider the battle that occurred to remove them from power. Did they go willingly and without resistance, or did they put a big fight and cost many innocent lives? Were deals made to get them out of power? Were threats made if they didn't relinquish power. Then those deals have to be honored before the Truth & Reconciliation option is pursued.

Finefeather
13th April 2013, 23:32
Hi Fred and All
Of course the sentence is of no real significance or even of any value...no matter what we decide, in our higher state of unconditional love...if the 'accused' have no idea of the reality of their 'crimes'...because to them, they were just doing what they, in their own minds, thought, was the right thing to do.

Like an animal...how do you go about convincing it not to kill for it's food...especially if it has been doing this for the last million years? ...you start feeding it until the instinct fades from it's unconsciousness...and a new consciousness is born.

Take care
Ray

Deega
13th April 2013, 23:33
Who was it who said, a problem cannot be solved from the same level of consciousness which created it? Therefore, the answer lies in the next level of consciousness, because courts, judgment, punishment and such notions are part of a dying paradigm and would not exist.

Part of the transformation, is we become transparent, all is brought into the light of day, and separation is found out to be what it truly is, a figment of the illusion.

So, if we are all godsparks of the one, all a light filament of the whole, then these godsparks, no longer playing the game of duality and polarization, would not provide contrast from which to view the polarities, and would just be, as they are now, part of a co-creation.

Only difference is we would be conscious. And therein lies my 2000'th post at Avalon.

Gripreaper, Einstein said it, and I concur with your point of view!

Wind
13th April 2013, 23:48
I think that it is absolutely wrong to cause suffering to others, but I still wouldn't be judging them.

If they could see themselves through their higher perspective then they would probably choose the parts of victims the next time around. Unless they're polarized enough to go into a higher state of being in their service the self (negative) path. Not too many of those around! The ptb are souls too, they too are part of the Creator like each and every one of us are.

Honestly I think that this game of separation and illusion is nearing it's end... The End is just the beginning of a new chapter. Nothing ever really ends.

Lifebringer
13th April 2013, 23:49
I chose exile, to be away from them and to be able to meditate and evolve further. They can't get in my head even if imprisoned, and conformity of rules were never a problem with me, but always the possibility of escape, should torture be involve, and a caged cate with martial art skills and a lot of channeled anger in just the right places will get me out. Torture me, and I do unto them the same way, using whatever God gave me.

Exile if I had only a choice to continue the life of lack. I think I would do better in the wilderness, and reading can pass the time as well as writing when the spirit moves you to.
Cave carvings and such. lol.

BrianEn
13th April 2013, 23:54
I think that it is absolutely wrong to cause suffering to others, but I still wouldn't be judging them.

If they could see themselves through their higher perspective then they would probably choose the parts of victims the next time around. Unress they're polarized enough to go into a higher state of being in their service the self (negative) path. Not too many of those around! The ptb are souls too, they too are part of the Creator like each and every one of us are.

Honestly I think that this game of separation and illusion is nearing it's end... The End is just the beginning of a new chapter. Nothing ever really ends.


The game of seprration is all over. I see it more now than I ever did. Simple yet effective tactics.

westhill
14th April 2013, 00:06
We have to think of how they came to power (on this earth) to begin with and how they were able to manipulate
this planet and us. No repeats!

I choose Other, which is Exposure. Everything out in the open and known, and more importantly, studied.
Their secrets unveiled and true history and science taught. Shine a cauterizing light! Some will die, some rehab,
some discover/make their own prison and others will live in exile. A few may learn to forgive themselves.

onawah
14th April 2013, 00:18
I think AllThatIs has arranged a system for the evolution of individual souls and so it is not for us to decide what should be another's fate.
From what I've read of channeled and psychic information that resonated with me, I think the souls in question, upon their death, will reincarnate into whatever stage of evolution that is appropriate for their next step.
Most likely they would not be returning to this planet, but would have to go back to a lower dimensional reality to learn the lessons that they failed to learn here.
Or, if there was no chance of rehabilitation, it might be a case of complete erasure of their individual identity and recycling back through primordial consciousness--in effect, starting all over again.
I think it is also possible that some of them will have seen the Light and will be ready for some kind of karmic rehabilitation.
I don't know if there would be anyone on Earth capable of knowing what would be appropriate for those souls until the time of their death, but there are psychics around who can tap into akashic records, etc. and would probably be able to see what would be the most viable solution.
Or perhaps there would be highly evolved ETs or EDs who would be able to openly interact with us by then, and could advise us.
If not, then personally, I don't think it would be wise to allow them to go free, as they would probably be incapable of staying out of trouble.
I don't believe in punishing sick individuals, and to me, extreme orientation of service to self is a kind of mental illness.
Most likely it would not be a burden on taxpayers in this theoretical future to keep them in some sort of high security rehabilitation center until they died.
So that is probably what I would opt for if I had to choose.

BrianEn
14th April 2013, 00:22
Never thought of that. Exposure is a great answer. Just being exposed to the world for what they really is most likely one of their worst fears. The repercussions on them would be endless.

Fred Steeves
14th April 2013, 00:34
Concerning the "exposure" angle, just keep in mind that was part of the original scenario.



TPTW have been identified, each and every major player. Every soul on the planet is now fully informed as to their true history, and what has been done over the many millennia to them and their ancestors.

ginnyk
14th April 2013, 01:10
I voted Other, with a slightly different viewpoint. I feel that on a higher level I signed up for this "course" and the teachers that came with it. Just as if I had been accepted by a martial arts master who would nearly kill me over and over until I finally mastered the skills. The master has his own agenda and karma and we chose to connect because it was part of the Plan for my own development before I incarnated here. Maybe the skill is to become non judgmental, or more compassionate.

In my own life, my worst oppressor became my greatest teacher. Accepting this was the only way I could let go and become free of attachments. in my opinion, remaining attached would be the real prison, and I would still be his victim. I don't want to have to do it over and over until I finally get it right. Of course, I might have a few choice words with my Higher Self when we finally meet.

Tesla_WTC_Solution
14th April 2013, 01:46
thank you, Fred! this is a great thread.

I chose exile -- because the technology to leave the planet is here, and they deserve that.

@@

Vitalux
14th April 2013, 02:00
It is said that the road to hell is :flame: paved with good intentions.

Upon consideration, I think the road to heaven :angel: is often done by first having to pave a road to hell :flame:.

When I look around and see how much humanity has benefited by technology, I am thankful, because it could have been much worse.

Then again, like others, I understand ....a bit more....of exactly,.....where here is. :sleep:

Craig
14th April 2013, 02:26
I think the first time around I voted death, only because when I voted death is time it said that I had already voted. I was strongly for death previously and embarrassingly enough still want death again this time around, but for hopefully different reasons. Last time would have been through anger and fear, this time the fear is still here but no longer the anger. I am still not evolved and further along and this is my burden I admit but I can't turn the other cheek for this lot, the billions that suffered, the trillions that were stolen etc hopefully the other side could impart wisdom more than this side could and who says it wouldn't happen again? I have read the ringing cedars collection and their utopia was overrun by evil eventually so there is a part of me that thinks it could happen again and probably in this part of life evolution perhaps it is the case?

So I choose death at my own expense but if I am to be stuck on this merry go round I would like it to be a better place. And I may never get off the roundabout until I change my mind about it.

Sorry for the rant I have just read an article about foster care and it angered up the blood a bit and these bastards are a perfect receptacle for it to disapate.

What's worse is that I know I should be better but I can't be rather ironic I know and curse you Fred for such thoroughly thought provoking and challenging scenario :p unless of course I am the only one that thinks that way in that case curse me :o

ghostrider
14th April 2013, 03:45
Exile, forced to start over with nothing and be totally open to warrior barbaric space travellers who might come to their place of exile... let them feel the boot of opression on their necks ...

music
14th April 2013, 07:01
Hi Fred and All
Of course the sentence is of no real significance or even of any value...no matter what we decide, in our higher state of unconditional love...if the 'accused' have no idea of the reality of their 'crimes'...because to them, they were just doing what they, in their own minds, thought, was the right thing to do.

Like an animal...how do you go about convincing it not to kill for it's food...especially if it has been doing this for the last million years? ...you start feeding it until the instinct fades from it's unconsciousness...and a new consciousness is born.

Take care
Ray

I don't think we can force human ideals onto animals. The lion kills the lamb because that is the nature of things. There is no judgement, there is no right or wrong, lions just kill lambs, that is all. We can feed a carnivore, but that food must be killed before it is given to it, so which is best for the prey species? To be killed by humans or to be killed by the lion? We should try to interfere less - nature (which is our creation) knows what it is doing. When we try to mess with nature, that is ego talking - our true nature created this nature of physical reality perfectly.

PurpleLama
14th April 2013, 11:04
Give 'em a hoe and put their butts to work in the garden, growing some real food.

Timreh
14th April 2013, 11:05
I chose Clemency..
Believing that beyond the hurt and anger forgiveness can be an invaluable lesson to learn..
After all aren't we here to learn, grow and be tested?
If the shift had occurred and humanity had awakened would we really be interested in resentment, judgement or negative emotions?
It's nice to think we would have moved outside of "right and wrong"
Personally I struggle with duality but my better half votes this way!

Finefeather
14th April 2013, 11:27
Hi Fred and All
Of course the sentence is of no real significance or even of any value...no matter what we decide, in our higher state of unconditional love...if the 'accused' have no idea of the reality of their 'crimes'...because to them, they were just doing what they, in their own minds, thought, was the right thing to do.

Like an animal...how do you go about convincing it not to kill for it's food...especially if it has been doing this for the last million years? ...you start feeding it until the instinct fades from it's unconsciousness...and a new consciousness is born.

Take care
Ray

I don't think we can force human ideals onto animals. The lion kills the lamb because that is the nature of things. There is no judgement, there is no right or wrong, lions just kill lambs, that is all. We can feed a carnivore, but that food must be killed before it is given to it, so which is best for the prey species? To be killed by humans or to be killed by the lion? We should try to interfere less - nature (which is our creation) knows what it is doing. When we try to mess with nature, that is ego talking - our true nature created this nature of physical reality perfectly.
Hi music
You just missed my point by thinking too literally :)
On the other hand...have you forgotten that we once were animals and that you can trace every human quality to some animal instinct or behavior? All we possess above animals is rational thinking, and then there are degrees of that too...in humans...and even in some rudimentary ways in animals.
By tracing these instincts and behaviors from animals to humans it is clear to me that rationality has brought in qualities like cunning, intelligence, planning etc...and if you think what that could result in when paired with a lower awareness of...lets call it...spiritual thinking...then we can see the reasons and motivations of these types of people.

If and when we get to a certain level of awareness of life, our leaning turns from self to other...or from singular to group thinking.
If we are going to believe in the story of service to self and service to others...with the idea that we choose to be bad or choose to be good...then we have gone astray...IMO.
Service to self is just another way of saying that the person or persons have not reached the point in their evolution where they can clearly see the 'wrong' in it...else what is life about?...some game where today I am the 'Indian' and tomorrow I'm the 'Cowboy'?...no...it is about the refinement of the qualities in us which best serves us, on earth, as the human race, to become peaceful and conflict free and filled with love...we do not do this by observing and comparing ourselves to the bad guys...we do this by becoming aware of our own inner shortcomings and what best serves our human family as a group.

Take care and love to you
Ray

westhill
14th April 2013, 11:47
Concerning the "exposure" angle, just keep in mind that was part of the original scenario.



TPTW have been identified, each and every major player. Every soul on the planet is now fully informed as to their true history, and what has been done over the many millennia to them and their ancestors.


Then the work/judgement concerning them is done. Now we have to decide if we will keep this list for ourselves.
In big and small ways we sentence ourselves. Know thy self is like self-exposure/freedom. It's a never ending process.
We need to be careful not to recreate what was familiar.

Fred Steeves
14th April 2013, 11:52
Hi Fred and All
Of course the sentence is of no real significance or even of any value...no matter what we decide, in our higher state of unconditional love...if the 'accused' have no idea of the reality of their 'crimes'...because to them, they were just doing what they, in their own minds, thought, was the right thing to do.

Like an animal...how do you go about convincing it not to kill for it's food...especially if it has been doing this for the last million years? ...you start feeding it until the instinct fades from it's unconsciousness...and a new consciousness is born.

Take care
Ray

I don't think we can force human ideals onto animals. The lion kills the lamb because that is the nature of things. There is no judgement, there is no right or wrong, lions just kill lambs, that is all. We can feed a carnivore, but that food must be killed before it is given to it, so which is best for the prey species? To be killed by humans or to be killed by the lion? We should try to interfere less - nature (which is our creation) knows what it is doing. When we try to mess with nature, that is ego talking - our true nature created this nature of physical reality perfectly.

Now there's a sticky one, and likely one the panel would be deeply engaged in. So fellow panel members here's my 2 cents, as it now stands anyway. This is wading into the realm of psychopaths me thinks. A psychopath simply does what they do don't they? Like the lion eating the lamb, or the spider waiting in it's web. But exactly where does being a psychopath end, and acting according to programming begin? And, just what is normal?

The best way to explain what I'm thinking is a personal example. Not all that long ago I thought war was the answer, and peace came through firepower superiority, (as a Marines t-shirt sports). Basically war=peace.:doh: Also, that meant I had no problem with innocent civilians being slaughtered (collateral damage), and I was thus both proud and giddy watching the "shock and awe" bombing campaign of Baghdad live on t.v. Now obviously I'm not and wasn't a psychopath, but the programming that I was allowing to run my thoughts automatically exhibited some psychopathic characteristics. Until the program began to jump the rails one day that is.

So then, at what point do we assume someone is a pure psychopath, or just operating under a program? Of course we all know the world is teeming with pure psychopaths, but even then, are they just running under a program themselves? A program of a higher order?

Back briefly to the cycle of nature. We humans consider ourselves of a higher order than animals, and in certain respects we are. Therefore we can have a much broader view than the lamb being eaten by the lion, we can see the cycle, the 'order' of things.

Now what if we could place our consciousness in the shoes of seeing our human realm, from the same perspective as we see the animal realm? (As Above So Below, As Below So Above) Would we see a certain order? A cycle of nature?

Cycle, order, program, all the same thing. Some humans can survive without eating (What happened to the program?), and if one can do it all can do it. Is the animal kingdom really supposed to be the way it is? Or, are we programmed to accept the carnage of that program as normal? And so on up the chain.

Just asking the questions...

Craig
14th April 2013, 12:09
Could it be that as we are here in the now to learn could others be here to prevent learning? Like a video game where each successive challenge becomes harder? In that case what is at the end? A series of never ending challenges? Would they know they are a challenge or just programmed that way?

Now I think that is a thought that will confuse me for a while

Fred Steeves
14th April 2013, 12:34
Could it be that as we are here in the now to learn could others be here to prevent learning? Like a video game where each successive challenge becomes harder? In that case what is at the end? A series of never ending challenges? Would they know they are a challenge or just programmed that way?

I like the video game analogy Craig, there's always the thrill of victory and accomplishment when yet another level is mastered isn't there? It also reminds me of the passage below. Is this the evil Satan? Or the loyal opposition, the gatekeeper so to speak, there to ensure our breakthrough to the next level is well earned?


O sons of earth, like Saturn ye are bound with
three rings, hand and foot; body, Soul and Spirit.
These rings are the three days in the tomb.5 These
ye must break through, and conquer the force that
binds ye, a day for a ring. These binding conditions
must hold ye until the very force which bound ye
is turned into the stability of the indomitable will
of undaunted courage and unquenchable faith; the
faith that has touched the confines of life and has
penetrated its Mysteries. And when I am conquered
ye will find me Lucifer the brilliant Angel of Light,
the bright Star of the Morning who shall make all
things plain unto thee.
But to know me ye must meet me face to face.
Ye must see my gaunt arms reaching out for ye and
boldly walk into those ghastly limbs and tear the
mask from my dead and frozen face; must warm my
cold heart with the warmth of thy breasts. Come to
me and wrench from me the power of Silence; of
quiet contemplation; of standing still. To know me
ye must study me and find out my secret.
I come not to give ye my force. I cannot. Ye must
wrest it from me in battle. I am the dread God of
the Threshold guarding all Wisdom! How dare ye
pass me? I am placed here at the end of things to
weigh and measure ye all. After ye pass me there
is no other. Ye are free to pass onward and inward
toward the Fount of all Light and Wisdom. No more
can the forces assail ye nor the terrors of the Abyss
draw ye down; for ye have passed the edge and are
inside the Spiral and turn back only of thine own
free will.
But ye dare not pass me until ye meet me; until
ye feel the grip of my grizzly hands at thy throat
shutting off thy life’s breath; until ye feel my icy
breath on thy cheek. Thus must ye wrestle. If I
conquer, down into the Abyss ye go, to begin over
again thy Cycle of Manifestation. But if ye conquer
I am thy Servant and Savior.

naste.de.lumina
14th April 2013, 12:37
How gripreaper .

Maybe menudo if needed radicalize some conviction.
Only fun.
peace

naste.de.lumina
14th April 2013, 12:51
Hello Fred.
Inflection thought my friend.
Including being the bad boys taken by full consciousness, I leave them to their own conscience decide which individual plan for their own upliftment.
I'm pretty sure that the higher self of each indivualidade apparent on earth, has the best ability to use this profound experience (even if negative it is still valuable), to his own mastery.
Option - Other.
Thank you for your attention.
Wander Brazilian.

Finefeather
14th April 2013, 13:58
Hi Fred
Your poll is quite interesting so far...and I do not expect it to change too radically. It reflects the thinking on this forum and to me it looks very good.

I would love to see the results in a different sample of people...like the military...or in my own country, South Africa :)

Recent comments I have read in our news articles on rape and abuse indicate very strongly that they want the death sentence back...and fast !
No mercy...just string the guy up...less cost to the taxpayer. There was even a lot of talk of using old mine shafts to make sure they cannot escape.
Imagine all the ptb down a mineshaft...;)

wavydome
14th April 2013, 14:11
Could it be that as we are here in the now to learn could others be here to prevent learning? Like a video game where each successive challenge becomes harder? In that case what is at the end? A series of never ending challenges? Would they know they are a challenge or just programmed that way?

I like the video game analogy Craig, there's always the thrill of victory and accomplishment when yet another level is mastered isn't there? It also reminds me of the passage below. Is this the evil Satan? Or the loyal opposition, the gatekeeper so to speak, there to ensure our breakthrough to the next level is well earned?


O sons of earth....

Yes Fred and Craig, I too believe the game aspect has a place very high up the ladders of consciousness. Despite that this concept is most often forbidden... So we might call for justice in a court of law. Though justice was hijacked so long ago.

Contract law as well, might have been grossly distorted over earth's time track. Who really knows? Earth-being or animal nutrition is based upon the dying life force of other beings. Is this a pyramid scheme? Does such a contract function very well for ever? Is this a cycle devised by Lucifer, who let it come to this? Are light beings, (ones high up the ladders), provided with project-arenas, (Galaxy sectors?) Was it Lucifer screwing up, now letting others clean his mess? Or was it the Archon mythology of Gaia Sophia, who purportedly was in class one day, as a young Goddess on high, whose life-lab-experiment failed?... At least Gaia dove into her test tube, to suffer the fate of her being-animals, (to suffer and evolve with them, in some respect).

I expect the many individuals fell into sociopathic traps and will continue dealing with this (karma). The psychopaths too, may have specific, unfamiliar processes to go through, as specialized robots, who provide challenges, for life.

IMO humans have their unique fate arena-- To what extent has the individual human reached out towards justice, within their own life-plan? To what extent has each human fulfilled their higher purpose? Is there a human goal or reward, for reaching higher and in some pro-active manner? Did one improve upon the pyramid scheme, which tradition has called sustenance or called nutrition? Now that seems to me the highest human challenge of all. In that war-industries are the biggest employers. In that rehabilitative and creative arts are twarted by the psychopaths. Can love manifest as an actual upgrade-action, by upgrading life sustenance? Can the individual get out of the box set up by Lucifer's system? Can an individual move sufficiently inspired. Inspired to live in a positive epoch? (Without getting lazy on an easy street, on a sphere of light).

I wonder ~~~y

WhiteFeather
14th April 2013, 14:23
After Dick Cheney cleans out my dirty boiler that ran off of out dated, tired and obsolete fossil fuels. He and all his Assclown Party Friends would then be sent to exile in another universe. Preferably to a planet with not many trees and plantlife and or very minimal oxygen to breathe. Hey Kinda like what they have done to this planet. Karmas a Bitch.....

Daozen
14th April 2013, 14:42
None of the above.

If they've taken 100,000 lives, let them provide food and water for millions.

If they've suppressed technology for 40 years, let them spread beneficial tech in the cosmos for 400.

If they've made billions sick, make them cure trillions.

If they won't take this offer, life sentences or worse. Only a small, highly dangerous minority need to be dealth with harshly.

Remember their story is the story of Anakin Skywalker, who secretly hated his boss. That's why their 'conversion' has been prophesied, and why events on this planet are such a big deal.

Daozen.

Fred Steeves
14th April 2013, 14:59
Hi Fred
Your poll is quite interesting so far...and I do not expect it to change too radically. It reflects the thinking on this forum and to me it looks very good.

I would love to see the results in a different sample of people...like the military...or in my own country, South Africa :)


Hi Ray. That would be interesting, but the best I can do is provide the link to the original version of this thread. There was no poll with that one, but for any who care to they can thumb through and see how we thought about it 2 years ago. There are some eyebrow raisers, and for various reasons. Some different names to boot.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21431-What-Would-YOU-Do

mahalall
14th April 2013, 15:56
Change our criminal mind through feeling the consequences of actions,

Some hope is coming out of the Indian judicial system through turning them into ashrams.

b8tZX3dGSM8

genevieve
14th April 2013, 17:55
I especially agree with Reilly. Put them out in gardens where they produce their own food and food for others.

Gardening is a very quick way to raise consciousness.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
Genevieve

Spiral
14th April 2013, 19:59
I voted "Exile" under the impression that this must be off planet ?

It seems most have little grasp of what these entities are (& why they do rituals & child abuse etc), its probably just as well really...

There is no way these entities could be turned around or re-habilitated, its not possible, and who really wants their vibrations on this planet ?

If they can't be exiled to a prison planet with no escape (and a grim one hopefully ;)) then they should be put down, and then they can go through the second death, which is the only way they can be cleansed.

Putting them down would be a humane act, because they would suffer indescribable torments in pretty much the mirror effect of a positive having to watch vivisection or child abuse.

music
14th April 2013, 22:28
Hi Fred, Ray. Death for the human, or the lion, or the lamb is nothing to fear. It is merely birth into another phase or form of existence, or a return to the all. Yes, we are animals, and we have developed to the stage where we don’t kill and eat each other because we have these things called consciousness and individuation. We feel these things are wrong, and most would agree that is the case. Where we need to exercise care is when we start to anthropomorphise. When we put human traits onto an animal, we rob that animal of the dignity of its own spirit, and we divert it from the course that the energy contained within it has chosen for itself.

We chose this world of duality – of eternally opposed yet interacting/inter-reliant opposites – because it is the perfect space within we which we can learn the true value of our perfection. There is nothing to be learned in a state of perfection. As a worldly example, it is easy to be generous if we are rich, but how much more meaningful when we are poor? Yes, there is a place where the lion doesn’t kill the lamb, but that place is not within a duality framework – here, the lamb has chosen a form which will be eaten, as have we all.

Everyone ends life in a massive way every day. Are we going to waste time thinking about training our bodies not to kill bacteria and viruses within us? Do we attempt to take every step without killing any soil micro-organisms? Or do we get on with the business of doing what we came here for, which is the rediscovery of our perfection within imperfection. It is in doing so that we discover that the concept of “lion lying down with lamb” is a metaphor, not a concept that we need waste energy on, trying to shoe-horn into a reality that we specifically created to be the way it is. Ray, I doubt I missed your point in being literal, since you say “Like an animal...how do you go about convincing it not to kill for it's food...especially if it has been doing this for the last million years? ...you start feeding it until the instinct fades from it's unconsciousness...and a new consciousness is born”. Using the word “like” at the start, you are putting the entirety of what follows into the realm of the literal, and then using that as a metaphor for dealing with errant human souls. This is not a competition, we are not competing for points of favour, we are merely expressing how we see things. I don’t think it is helpful if every time someone expresses a point of view different to our own we assume they must have misunderstood what we were saying. True, this happens, I just don’t think it was the case here, and for our benefit, it is a pattern that can be observed.

Yes, we have conscience, but what we call morality, what we call good and evil, are human constructs. The natural world does not know good or evil, merely differing degrees of evolving consciousness that indicate that this world of strife is not our true nature, merely a game we are playing. I can put myself in the place of the lamb and be perfectly OK with being eaten, because eventually as a human I will eaten too.

zen deik
15th April 2013, 00:35
Until you can understand what created the offence they should be studied to gain understanding about prevention of cause and effect to prevent recurrence

Deega
15th April 2013, 23:11
Thanks Mahalall, I voted for ''rehabilitation'', and this video said it all, wonderful what the spiritual can do, loved it!



Change our criminal mind through feeling the consequences of actions,

Some hope is coming out of the Indian judicial system through turning them into ashrams.

b8tZX3dGSM8

Craig
18th April 2013, 08:01
Fred,

Can I be as bold as to ask has anybody had a change of heart since Boston? If a false flag I still vote for death as music eloquently said body death isn't end so just wipe them from this time and let them become some other entities problem

westhill
18th April 2013, 12:28
Fred,

Can I be as bold as to ask has anybody had a change of heart since Boston? If a false flag I still vote for death as music eloquently said body death isn't end so just wipe them from this time and let them become some other entities problem
I think we have to be careful imposing our beliefs of what happens at death. Do we really know for certain?
Are you willing to be at the mercy of another's belief when it comes to your life? It's a beautiful idea that death
is just one end to another beginning but I don't feel I have the right to impose that idea onto another person.
Death is rather permanent. We also can't pass off our perceived problems onto "other entities." Killing to get rid of
a problem sounds a lot like the very evil we are fighting. No quick fixes, just hard work.