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opihikaobob
18th April 2013, 23:33
What I find of particular interest is that we are appointed a certain number of circuits,
and that we will at one point not be able to reincarnate as the number of perfected souls will have been reached

Pistis Sophia
translated by G. S. R. Mead

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CHAPTER 125

Mary continued again and said unto the Saviour: "My Lord, if the faith and the mysteries shall have revealed themselves,--now, therefore, if souls come into the world in many circuits and are neglectful of receiving mysteries, hoping that, if they come into the world at any other circuit, they will receive them, will they not then be in danger |317. of not succeeding in receiving the mysteries?"

Of those who procrastinate, saying they have many births before them.The Saviour answered and said unto his disciples: "Herald unto the whole world and say unto men: Strive thereafter that ye may receive the mysteries of the Light in this time of affliction and enter into the Light-kingdom. Join not one day to another, or one circuit to another, hoping that ye may succeed in receiving the mysteries if ye come into the world in another circuit.

"And these know not when the number of the perfect souls will be at hand; for if the number of the perfect souls shall be at hand, I will now shut the gates of the Light, and no one from this hour onwards will enter in, nor will

p. 263

any one hereafter go forth, for the number of the perfect souls is completed and the mystery of the First Mystery is completed, for the sake of which the universe hath arisen,--that is: I am that Mystery.

Of the time of the completion."And from this hour onwards no one will be able to enter into the Light and no one be able to go forth. For at the completion of the time of the number of the perfect souls, before I have set fire to the world, in order that it may purify the ćons and the veils and the firmaments and the whole earth and also all the matters which are on it, mankind |318. will be still existing.

Those who procrastinate are excluded from the Light."At that time then the faith will reveal itself still more and the mysteries in those days. And many souls will come by means of the circuits of the changes of the body, and coming back into the world are some of those in this present time who have hearkened unto me, how I taught, who at the completion of the number of the perfect souls will find the mysteries of the Light and receive them and come to the gates of the Light and find that the number of the perfect souls is complete, which is the completion of the First Mystery and the gnosis of the universe. And they will find that I have shut the gates of the Light and that it is impossible that any one should enter in or that any one should go forth from this hour.

Their entreaties at the gates of Light."Those souls then will knock at the gates of the Light, saying: Lord, open unto us! And I will answer unto them: I know you not, whence ye are. And they will say unto me: We have received of thy mysteries and fulfilled thy whole teaching and thou hast taught us on the high

p. 264

ways. And I will answer and say unto them: I know you not, who ye are, ye who are doers of iniquity and of evil even unto now. Wherefor go into the outer darkness. And |319. from that hour they will go into the outer darkness, there where is howling and grinding of teeth.

"For this cause then, herald unto the whole world and say unto them: 'Strive thereafter, to renounce the whole world and the whole matter therein, that ye may receive the mysteries of the Light before the number of the perfect souls is completed, in order that they may not make you stop before the gates of the Light and. lead you away into the outer darkness.'

"Now, therefore, who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Mary interpreteth the same.When then the Saviour had said this, Mary started forward again and said: "My Lord, not only hath my light-man ears, but my soul hath heard and understood all the words which thou sayest. Now, therefore, my Lord, concerning the words which thou hast spoken: 'Herald unto the men of the world and say unto them: Strive thereafter, to receive the mysteries of the Light, in this time of affliction, that ye may inherit the Light-kingdom. . . .

. . . . . .

[A CONSIDERABLE LACUNA HERE OCCURS IN THE TEXT.]

. . . . . .



p. 265

Next: Chapter 126
Return to the Gnostic Society Library

golden wonder
18th April 2013, 23:48
What are you trying to say?

GarethBKK
19th April 2013, 00:24
Thank you, Bob. Interesting and timely. I'm joining a Buddhist discussion on 'Rebirth' tomorrow, and the Gnostic parallel to the 'end of suffering' is inescapable. The idea that there is a limit to the circuits adds something new.

lookbeyond
19th April 2013, 02:22
Hello Bob, do you understand the text to be referring to imminent times,

Reguards lookbeyond

deridan
19th April 2013, 11:06
I obtain this from the Diamond Sutra:

"SECTION VI.
RARE IS TRUE FAITH
Subhuti said to Buddha: World-honored One, will there
always be men who will truly believe after coming to hear
these teachings? Buddha answered: Subhuti, do not utter such
words! At the end of the last fivehundred-year period
following the passing of the Tathagata, there will be selfcontrolled
men, rooted in merit, coming to hear these
teachings, who will be inspired with belief. But you should
realize that such men have not strengthened their root of merit
under just one Buddha, or two Buddhas, or three, or four, or
five Buddhas, but under countless Buddhas; and their merit is
of every kind. Such men, coming to hear these teachings, will
have an immediate uprising of pure faith, Subhuti; and the
Tathagata will recognize them. Yes, He will clearly perceive
all these of pure heart, and the magnitude of their moral
excellences. Wherefore? It is because such men will not fall
back to cherishing the idea of an ego-entity, a personality, a
being, or a separated individuality. They will neither fall back
to cherishing the idea of things as having intrinsic qualities, nor
even of things as devoid of intrinsic qualities."

In the above text, I see the congruence of [wo]men strengthening their root under many self-realized ones.
I am glad, that here [from OP text] we can see that the churches views are largely falsified.

The teaching of Jesus himself here takes into account many lives....
but again a thread of teaching which is found in the Apocrafa (pre-to-AD--of about 300years), of the narrow entrances is reiterated here by the Melchizedek of Judaisms teaching stream

...post2:[?part of Q ans:]
mention of aeons, firament and veils....
veils being intrinsic to the teaching of Kaballah,...showing our christian roots have indeed been obscured

Prodigal Son
19th April 2013, 12:06
It doesn't make sense to me, nor does it ring true with my intuition, that the johnny-come-latelies are permanently rejected by the Master for procrastinating. What I think happens is that there are windows of opportunity that arise at the apex of the 26,000-year cosmic day cycle or Precession of the Equinox to escape the "Wheel of Life" or "Wheel of Samsara". This is called the Door to Eden or Eden's Gate, we are approaching it now, and the procrastinators who don't make it will have to stay in cyclic existence or rebirth until the next window in another 26,000 years. Eternal destruction or eternal suffering with no chance of escape is a Satanic idea/concept.

westhill
19th April 2013, 12:29
In an infinite universe it doesn't sound right that only a finite number (quota) are to be admitted
and only at a certain time. All about limits. Sounds very human. Kinda like a sales pitch.
Not buying it.

sirdipswitch
19th April 2013, 15:42
Prodigal Son[/B];663586]It doesn't make sense to me, nor does it ring true with my intuition, that the johnny-come-latelies are permanently rejected by the Master for procrastinating. What I think happens is that there are windows of opportunity that arise at the apex of the 26,000-year cosmic day cycle or Precession of the Equinox to escape the "Wheel of Life" or "Wheel of Samsara". This is called the Door to Eden or Eden's Gate, we are approaching it now, and the procrastinators who don't make it will have to stay in cyclic existence or rebirth until the next window in another 26,000 years. Eternal destruction or eternal suffering with no chance of escape is a Satanic idea/concept.



A thinker of truth among us. Heed his words and begin your new journey, for Wisdom, has been placed before you.

conk
19th April 2013, 18:55
Arrogance or ignorance presumes to know the answers. Will we ever know? I don't believe we can, but it's one heck of an interesting journey of exploration. One truth dissolves into another, while others are left behind. Truth changes. Essence prevails. I'm still peeking around corners, searching for mine.

Essence is like my little bunny rabbit hiding behind the couch. He knows I'm searching for him and will put him in his cage for longer than he has been allowed out.

lunaflare
19th April 2013, 19:11
Am I procrastinating reading these posts?

deridan
20th April 2013, 16:01
no kidder,
you focus your efficiency on the wrong time scales... the minutes in your natural day,

whereas the scales here spoken of, seem to be of choices and actions in lifetimes.

.fu.

Sammy
20th April 2013, 17:35
"All that is, has no time." J Krishnamurti

Are you? Or are you not? If your answer is, "Yes, I am," then time plays no role in reality. Yuga's and such not are constructs like all the other constructs. Do you think it is acceptable you be subject to any form of machinations of a construct?

I don't.

I am awakened. Join those who are.

opihikaobob
20th April 2013, 21:15
What are you trying to say?

I believe in re-incarnation so I thought that others might in fact enjoy this acknowledgement of same by the Gnostic tradition, especially if they are Christians .

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Thank you for your reply! Also I would be interested to hear what you learned in your discussion.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Thank you, Bob. Interesting and timely. I'm joining a Buddhist discussion on 'Rebirth' tomorrow, and the Gnostic parallel to the 'end of suffering' is inescapable. The idea that there is a limit to the circuits adds something new.

Thank you for your reply to this post, and I would be interested in hearing a little about that discussion

opihikaobob
20th April 2013, 21:19
Hello Bob, do you understand the text to be referring to imminent times,

Reguards lookbeyond

Yes I do , Thanks for your reply

opihikaobob
20th April 2013, 21:29
I obtain this from the Diamond Sutra:

"SECTION VI.
RARE IS TRUE FAITH
Subhuti said to Buddha: World-honored One, will there
always be men who will truly believe after coming to hear
these teachings? Buddha answered: Subhuti, do not utter such
words! At the end of the last fivehundred-year period
following the passing of the Tathagata, there will be selfcontrolled
men, rooted in merit, coming to hear these
teachings, who will be inspired with belief. But you should
realize that such men have not strengthened their root of merit
under just one Buddha, or two Buddhas, or three, or four, or
five Buddhas, but under countless Buddhas; and their merit is
of every kind. Such men, coming to hear these teachings, will
have an immediate uprising of pure faith, Subhuti; and the
Tathagata will recognize them. Yes, He will clearly perceive
all these of pure heart, and the magnitude of their moral
excellences. Wherefore? It is because such men will not fall
back to cherishing the idea of an ego-entity, a personality, a
being, or a separated individuality. They will neither fall back
to cherishing the idea of things as having intrinsic qualities, nor
even of things as devoid of intrinsic qualities."

In the above text, I see the congruence of [wo]men strengthening their root under many self-realized ones.
I am glad, that here [from OP text] we can see that the churches views are largely falsified.

The teaching of Jesus himself here takes into account many lives....
but again a thread of teaching which is found in the Apocrafa (pre-to-AD--of about 300years), of the narrow entrances is reiterated here by the Melchizedek of Judaisms teaching stream

...post2:[?part of Q ans:]
mention of aeons, firament and veils....
veils being intrinsic to the teaching of Kaballah,...showing our christian roots have indeed been obscured

A beautiful exposistion of Buddist thought - thank you very much for this ! Also I totally agree about the obscuration of true Christian teaching.

opihikaobob
20th April 2013, 22:04
It doesn't make sense to me, nor does it ring true with my intuition, that the johnny-come-latelies are permanently rejected by the Master for procrastinating. What I think happens is that there are windows of opportunity that arise at the apex of the 26,000-year cosmic day cycle or Precession of the Equinox to escape the "Wheel of Life" or "Wheel of Samsara". This is called the Door to Eden or Eden's Gate, we are approaching it now, and the procrastinators who don't make it will have to stay in cyclic existence or rebirth until the next window in another 26,000 years. Eternal destruction or eternal suffering with no chance of escape is a Satanic idea/concept.


I have a difficult time with eternal destruction, or suffering as well .In the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi H. Dowling
http://home.netcom.com/~mokeeffe2/AquarianGospel1-15.htm Jesus talks about being cast into the fire for purification , not total destruction
That being said , in The post he warns about procrastination, iT seems like they procrastinated so that they could do evil , and in the end they were late to the gate, as well as doers of iniquity.

rickyc
20th April 2013, 22:04
Heads up on a TV program

I watched a very interesting TV program last week. It is being repeated on the Smithsonian channel at 0900 EST Thursday and 0500 Friday. The name is "Decoding Immortality".

An Australian Nobel scientist has discovered what makes cells age and maybe a way to reverse it. She and others formed a company - I think it is Geron.

The downside seems to be that causing cells to grow younger also may causes cancer cells to grow.

It's an interesting program if that's your thing.

opihikaobob
20th April 2013, 22:28
[QUOTE=Prodigal Son;663586]It doesn't make sense to me, nor does it ring true with my intuition, that the johnny-come-latelies are permanently rejected by the Master for procrastinating. What I think happens is that there are windows of opportunity that arise at the apex of the 26,000-year cosmic day cycle or Precession of the Equinox to escape the "Wheel of Life" or "Wheel of Samsara". This is called the Door to Eden or Eden's Gate, we are approaching it now, and the procrastinators who don't make it will have to stay in cyclic existence or rebirth until the next window in another 26,000 years. Eternal destruction or eternal suffering with no chance of escape is a Satanic idea/concept.

When I look around at this incredible universe, and the order inherent in it, I am in total awe and reverence of it. To me, something has created this order, and by extension , ourselves as well.


Below probably deserves it's own thread -

http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2007/04/st-einstein-100-plagiarist.html


By the way, Einstein was a plagiarist
sunday, 15 april 2007
St Einstein the 100% plagiarist
The name "Einstein" evokes images of genius, but was Albert Einstein, in fact, a plagiarist, who copied the theories of Lorentz, Poincare, Gerber, and Hilbert?



A scholarly documentation of Albert Einstein's plagiarism of the theory of relativity, Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist discloses Einstein's method for manipulating credit for the work of his contemporaries, reprints the prior works he parroted, and demonstrates through formal logical argument that Albert Einstein could not have drawn the conclusions he drew without prior knowledge of the works he copied, but failed to reference. Numerous republished quotations from Einstein's contemporaries prove that they were aware of his plagiarism. The book includes 567 endnotes, countless references and an index.

"As a matter of fact, reading this text should be a must for all people professionally interested in the history of Physics or of Science (for these readers the book, its "polemical" thesis notwithstanding, could become an indispensable tool, packed as it is with information, quotations, meticulous references, etc.), but it is highly recommended even to teachers, scientists of all kinds, philosophers, epistemologists, in general to every person interested in the evolution of human civilization and knowledge." -- Professor Umberto Bartocci in his review of Albert Einstein: the Incorrigible Plagiarist.

. . . "Albert Einstein the Incorrigible Plagiarist suggests that Einstein had a tendency to incorporate the work of contemporary scientists without properly crediting them, and even offers a body of evidence that his wife, Mileva Einstein-Marity, was the true author of his attributed works. Albert Einstein The Incorrigible Plagiarist is a fascinating, albeit controversial treatise, packed cover to cover with meticulous references to document and support its seemingly outrageous claim." -- Midwest Book Review.


In 1997, noted Einstein scholars Leo Corry, Juergen Renn and John Stachel attempted to rewrite the history of the gravitational field equations of the general theory of relativity. Their radical revisionism was largely based on a set of printer's proofs of an important paper by the world-famous mathematician David Hilbert, in which Hilbert published the field equations of general relativity five days before Einstein copied them from Hilbert. Corry, Renn and Stachel claimed that these printer's proofs of Hilbert's paper did not contain the equations which appeared in Hilbert's final published paper. However, in their 1997 article in the journal Science, "Belated Decision in the Hilbert-Einstein Priority Dispute," Corry, Renn and Stachel failed to disclose the fact that these printer's proofs were mutilated, and are missing a critical part--the very part which contained the equations Corry, Renn and Stachel claimed Hilbert did not know. Anticipations of Einstein in the General Theory of Relativity refutes the baseless historical revisionism of Corry, Renn and Stachel, and proves that Einstein did not originate any of the major concepts of the general theory of relativity by comparing the original source material by Einstein and his predecessors. Einstein even fudged his equations in order to achieve the results others had published long before him.

Library of Congress
Cataloging-in-Publication Data

sms
20th April 2013, 22:51
In so called “Eastern Gnosis” we have an interesting view on reincarnation, as well.

An excerpt from "Gnosis – Study and Commentaries on the Eastern Orthodoxy"; Book One; (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/mouravieff1.pdf) pages 232 and 233; (we have to consider that these books were first published in French language in 1961):



The life of man is film. It is certainly difficult for our Cartesian minds to grasp this concept.

Our three-dimensional minds are badly adapted to ideas and facts which touch on the domain of the eternal.

Incomprehensible as it may seem, our life is truly a film produced in
accordance with a script. This film goes on continuously, without stopping,
in such a way that, at the time of his death, man is born again. What seems
absurd is that he is born in the same place, at the same date where he was
born before, and of the same parents. So the film goes on again.

Each human being, then, is born with his own particular film. This
represents the field of action in which man is called to apply his
conscious efforts. The repetition of the film is not reincarnation, although
these two notions are often confused. For the reasons we have already
mentioned, exterior man, who lives in the system of the Future-Past,
cannot embrace in a single moment the ensemble of his film, nor even
the part that contains his immediate future. To do so, he would need
to enlarge the slot of his Present. It thus happens to him that, faced with
certain events, he will feel that he has already seen or lived those events.

Some see in such phenomena the proof of so called reincarnation. In
reality, phenomena of this sort are the result of a casual and temporary
surge of fine energies in the organism: the slot of the individual Present
then enlarges for a few instants, and some significant facts of the immediate
future slip into the waking consciousness. In this way, the impression is
created of a return of another time.

In a certain way this is true, although the impression of having lived
before is only caused by mechanical unfolding of the film. By reincarnation,
we must understand a phenomenon of a very different order. Although the
theoretical film revolves integrally on the plane of possibilities, meaning in
eternity, the film of the exterior man clings to the plane of realization, that is,
of Time, but only to the extent strictly necessary to satisfy the ends of the
Ray of Creation. True reincarnation, on the other hand, occurs entirely in
time, and belongs integrally to the domain of the Real, well understood as
part of the broader frame of Manifestation. We have insisted on the fact
that the human Personality is not a reality in the proper sense of the word,
but a possibility. It plays a role in the film to which it is attached, from
which it will not disappear until the moment of the second Birth. At that
moment, it will cease to be a Personality. Because of its indestructible
union with the real 'I', it will be transfigured, and so it will become an
Individuality.

As long as man lives in the wilderness, self-satisfied and immersed in lies
and illusions, the film will unfold with mechanical inflexibility, and the
Personality will remain entirely unchanged. These circumstances start to
change the moment man crosses the first Threshold. This passage can be
compared to the conception of the future Individuality. The Staircase symbolizes
the period of gestation, and the crossing of the second Threshold
represents the second Birth, the birth of Individuality. During his later
development, corresponding to the notes MI and RE of the Way, the
Individuality becomes progressively integrated with the higher cosmoses.
By acquiring the gifts of the Holy Spirit appropriate to his nature, he
progressively participates in real, objective existence, which finally characterizes his being.

This is Salvation; liberation from the bonds of the film.
It is only at this point of evolution that true individual reincarnation
becomes possible. This is not mechanical; it is done consciously, generally
to accomplish a mission.

It is important to grasp clearly the difference which exists between the
film, a mixture of possibilities, and reincarnation in time, which belongs to
the domain of the Real, and to understand the meaning of this difference.
At the time of the second Birth, that is to say, by crossing the second
Threshold, man escapes his bondage to the film, and enters the domain
of redemption.

Looks like we were characters in a simulated virtual reality or a SIMS game?!