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music
25th April 2013, 06:58
This is very important. We all know them, we may even have been taken in by them. Even here, or should I say especially here? In the words of article author Mike Adams
"One of the more offensive duties of being an investigative journalist is taking out the trash -- exposing liars, fraudsters, con artists and scammers for the people they truly are. Each time we investigate a sociopath, we find that they always have a little cult group following of spellbound worshippers who consider that particular sociopath to be a "guru" or "prophet."


10 signs for spotting a sociopath

#1) Sociopaths are charming. Sociopaths have high charisma and tend to attract a following just because people want to be around them. They have a "glow" about them that attracts people who typically seek guidance or direction. They often appear to be sexy or have a strong sexual attraction. Not all sexy people are sociopaths, obviously, but watch out for over-the-top sexual appetites and weird fetishes.

#2) Sociopaths are more spontaneous and intense than other people. They tend to do bizarre, sometimes erratic things that most regular people wouldn't do. They are unbound by normal social contracts. Their behavior often seems irrational or extremely risky.

#3) Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame, guilt or remorse. Their brains simply lack the circuitry to process such emotions. This allows them to betray people, threaten people or harm people without giving it a second thought. They pursue any action that serves their own self interest even if it seriously harms others. This is why you will find many very "successful" sociopaths in high levels of government, in any nation.

#4) Sociopaths invent outrageous lies about their experiences. They wildly exaggerate things to the point of absurdity, but when they describe it to you in a storytelling format, for some reason it sounds believable at the time.

#5) Sociopaths seek to dominate others and "win" at all costs. They hate to lose any argument or fight and will viciously defend their web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.

#6) Sociopaths tend to be highly intelligent, but they use their brainpower to deceive others rather than empower them. Their high IQs often makes them dangerous. This is why many of the best-known serial killers who successfully evaded law enforcement were sociopaths.

#7) Sociopaths are incapable of love and are entirely self-serving. They may feign love or compassion in order to get what they want, but they don't actually FEEL love in the way that you or I do.

#8) Sociopaths speak poetically. They are master wordsmiths, able to deliver a running "stream of consciousness" monologue that is both intriguing and hypnotic. They are expert storytellers and even poets. As a great example of this in action, watch this interview of Charles Manson on YouTube.

#9) Sociopaths never apologize. They are never wrong. They never feel guilt. They can never apologize. Even if shown proof that they were wrong, they will refuse to apologize and instead go on the attack.

#10) Sociopaths are delusional and literally believe that what they say becomes truth merely because they say it! Charles Manson, the sociopathic murderer, is famous for saying, "I've never killed anyone! I don't need to kill anyone! I THINK it! I have it HERE! (Pointing to his temple.) I don't need to live in this physical realm..."

How to spot a sociopath (http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html)

lunaflare
25th April 2013, 07:11
Thanks music.

Two questions spring to mind:
Are sociopaths born or created?
And why are there sociopaths in our world?

music
25th April 2013, 08:15
Good questions. While there is debate about this, I would say they are born. Testimony from a sociopath forum (sociopathworld) (http://www.sociopathworld.com/) reveals that they themselves knew from an early age that they were different. For example, while they might think things like "Hmm, it would interesting to poke that burning stick into an eyeball and see what happens", they soon learn to hide that behaviour, even the penchant for that behaviour, because society tends to take a dim view of that sort of thing. I would encourage everyone to dip into this forum, their way of relating to each other has a consistancy that can help identify them, and their modus operandi certainly rang a bell with me when considering people I have come into contact with. It would also be wise for us to be able to identify the sociopaths in our own lives. I wouldn't advocate culling them, they are what they are, but since they are unable to feel love, or even know what it is, they certainly need controlling for the greater good of all. I would venture that if it is a natural condition, there may be a genetic disposition that would mean that certain dynastic families may be made up largely of sociopaths. Perceived struggles within the elite, in fact, may turn out to be as simple as the divide between the "normals", who have the capacity for love, and the sociopaths, who don't.

Why are they in this world? This reminds me of questions like: Why are there lethal viruses? Why are there spiders that are loaded with more venom than they need to procure food and ensure survival? There may be a reason, or there may not be a reason. If we assume that we have created this illusion, why did we create sociopaths? Perhaps to learn - perhaps to show us what happens when we live a life that is the ultimate abnegation and rejection of love? Perhaps the sociopath is the supreme example of the selfishness and seperation of duality consciousness?

edit: I should add that by "control", I mean inform and identify, and so disempower their toxic and hurtful manipulation. I don't mean lock up, sterilise, or in fact, any of the things they would do to us if we inconvenienced them (and they could get away with it).

Maunagarjana
25th April 2013, 08:44
I too recommend sociopathworld.com, it's very informative. I discovered it last year. There's a lot of good information on there, and commentary by actual sociopaths and people who have been involved with them before. There's also good information about psychopaths and malignant narcissists and how they differ from sociopaths. What I walked away from after spending some time reading that site is the question of "how do we keep these people (sociopaths, psychopaths and malignant narcissists) out of positions of power?"

music
25th April 2013, 08:51
When we look to people who are ruthless in the pursuit of power, are we not observing sociopathic tendancies at work? I think it may be too late to keep them from positions of power, but for me, love is a power far greater than cold and ruthless manipulation. I would say, as in everything, our unity is the key.

Beren
25th April 2013, 09:14
When we look to people who are ruthless in the pursuit of power, are we not observing sociopathic tendancies at work? I think it may be too late to keep them from positions of power, but for me, love is a power far greater than cold and ruthless manipulation. I would say, as in everything, our unity is the key.

Great thread!

Love is the key. But as we should know -Love isn`t just roses and bees, sometimes tough Love is the required key for the greater benefit of all including the sociopath one.
First step:

becoming aware what is manipulation and then act accordingly.

Eram
25th April 2013, 09:40
Hang around with a poet and you will find that you begin to choose your words carefully and become aware of their power.

Hang around with an enlightened person and you will find that your heart opens up.

Hang around with a sociopath and you will find that consciousness drops like a brick.

mosquito
25th April 2013, 09:53
Seems very similar to a psychopath to me.

Here's an interesting article discussing the two ........

http://depressiond.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath-differences-between-psychopathic-sociopathic-personality-disorders/

music
25th April 2013, 10:13
It is a fine balance, love/tough love. I agonise a fair bit over toughness, and yes, we need to be something other than a push-over :) Perhaps it's just semantics, and I don't like the word "tough" because it has connotations for me it might not for others. As a parent I appreciate that at times we must deny our children's wishes because our contract with them is to nurture them and keep them safe until they can decide for themselves whether or not to do things that are injurious to them. Hopefully, by that time we have allowed them to become themselves so fully, that the draw of self-destructive behaviour is no longer there.

Yes, Beren, thank you, awareness is the point of this thread. From sociopathworld:


Karl Marx says that religion is the opiate of the masses. That may be, but it's not the only drug in their cocktail. They have a lot of things that sociopaths don't have, one of which is the feeling of interconnectedness that comes from allowing considerations for other people to dominate their decision-making.

This is wrong on so many levels, and we begin to see the contempt within which the sociopath holds us. What we see as our beautiful essential nature, they see as analogous to opium induced torpor.


I am always charmed when someone sees through me. Obviously not everyone can or would want to share our worldview. For those that do not or cannot, it seems best for all concerned that they continue to be deceived.

No, it is best for the sociopath that they remain undetected, it is not good for society. They damage all who they come in contact with them who are unaware of what they are. Sometimes in small ways that are hardly noticed, sometimes at greater cost.

What follows is how sociopaths describe how to pick them, from the same forum:

Sociopath test: How to spot them before they target you (http://www.sociopathworld.com/2010/12/sociopath-test-how-to-spot-them-before.html)

Everyone wants to know how to identify a sociopath, it's one of the most frequently asked questions I get. The problem is that no one has discovered a definitive means of identifying them, even in a clinical setting with trained psychologists, even with a brain scanner. For the average layperson, the advice for spotting a sociopath is as varied and unreliable as "evil eyes," social parasite/criminal, and (my favorite for being both too specific and overbroad) Martha's Stout's "pity play" litmus test. I had hoped that there would be physical manifestations of sociopathy, but the results, while suggestive of potential promising areas of follow-up (why don't sociopaths take cold medicine?), were far from scientific or conclusive. Still, from my own personal experience with sociopaths, I believe that there are some easily observable behaviors or traits that correlate relatively well with sociopathy. I came up with 12.

1. Sociopaths typically don't smalltalk about themselves as much as normal people do. They will direct the conversation back to the new acquaintance as much as they can.

2. A sociopath will reveal "personal" details about himself strategically, i.e. for the purposes of misdirection or a false sense of intimacy/trust. Revelations of actual truths are very rare and may be perceived as a small slip of the mask.

3. Sociopaths frequently hesitate before responding. It will be unclear to you whether they are bored, annoyed, lying, or all three.

4. No strong reactions to illogical hotbed political/social topics (e.g. Octomom or Catholic priest child molestation).

5. Monotone voice (I am told).

6. A tendency to take things too literally or otherwise not respond appropriately to small emotional cues.

7. Cold indifference to one or more family members.

8. Seemingly a different person when "distracted."

9. Disconnect between what the sociopath says and does, e.g. seems charitable but does not give money to homeless or vice versa.

10. Never shows signs of embarrassment. Easily wins over large crowds with confidence. "Poise" in this case = lack of nerves.

11. Does not fit stereotypes for gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, or career. Could seem foreign, bisexual, older or younger, pious, wealthy or poor, but may also just seem unplaceable.

12. Can flip flop between keeping a very low profile (the observer) to being the life of the party (the actor).
I don't think all of these would apply to all sociopaths, and certainly many of them apply to people who aren't sociopaths, however they all have the advantage of being directly observable by a layperson, at least without the aid of a brain scan or 10 page questionnaire. Also, because they're seemingly inconsequential and not directly related to the classic sociopath/antisocial traits, a sociopath would have less reason to mask them.

* ... and from the comments to that post:

13. Can often appear to be tender, loving, or passionate, yet able to switch to completely self-centered, cold and unapologetic on a dime, and vice versa.

14. Seemingly able to relate to almost anyone's issues in some capacity, from a logical standpoint, and apt to give advice if needed.

15. (Related to 14) When not being able to relate to someone's issues, will instead be highly inquisitive as opposed to empathetic, seeming to want to know more about the issue than comforting and helping the person.

16. Well versed in giving advice on social manipulations in the guise of "help" to friends, loved ones, and family, with great enthusiasm instead of hesitancy.



Eram (here): Hang around with a poet and you will find that you begin to choose your words carefully and become aware of their power.

Hang around with an enlightened person and you will find that your heart opens up.

Hang around with a sociopath and you will find that consciousness drops like a brick.



Haha, I would have to agree, well put.

Sérénité
25th April 2013, 10:13
Thankyou for this thread Music and also the link to the website, Im going to check that out for sure.

There is someone i know who fits every part of this descriptive. Over the years I seen his veil slip slowly but surely. He is either adored or hated by others, no in between. The ones who hate him have seen through his guise and avoid him like the plague, it is the only way to triumph over him, and people like him.

In my experience, they cant be defeated. My only solace is to ignore them, avoid them and most importantly, give them absolutely no way to control over you.
This is what they yearn for and desire the most, adoration and control.

The soul destroying part of it all is to watch those you love, who cant see past the false façade, slip slowly into decay while under their power... :tsk:

music
25th April 2013, 10:23
Seems very similar to a psychopath to me.

Here's an interesting article discussing the two ........

http://depressiond.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath-differences-between-psychopathic-sociopathic-personality-disorders/

Thanks for the link. Yes, similar but different. Here is the sociopath take on it which I think illustrates it well:


If you subscribe to the Hare criteria for a psychopath, then you see the conning, manipulative narcissistic liar and user as a psychopath, as long as he or she is completely lacking in remorse or empathy. The sociopath, however, is capable of guilt, caring, building relationships, etc., but only within a certain context. He or she will have loyalties to a specific group but not to society at large. They care nothing for social norms and will break them with impunity if it serves their purpose. So, on the surface, they may resemble psychopaths. However, they might genuinely feel remorse over harming someone within their group or family. They will have a moral code specific to that context: they might not lie, exploit, or manipulate within the group. Thus, they exhibit psychopathic behaviors in certain contexts but not all.

Society sees psychopaths as "born", and sociopaths as "made", perhaps because of the differences detailed above, society finds conscious or unconscious direction in the manipulation of the sociopath, but as mentioned before, they themselves sense their difference early on.

Eram
25th April 2013, 10:28
Thanks music.

Two questions spring to mind:
Are sociopaths born or created?
And why are there sociopaths in our world?

What makes people become sociopath? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_makes_people_become_sociopath)

What makes a person sociopathic is a long and hard question to answer. In truth, there probably isn't a correct answer. There are some theories, which I will outline, briefly, here. But one must remember psychoanalytic theories are difficult, if not impossible, to prove completely via scientific method. The reason for this is that, unlike many chemicals, personality is mutable and difficult to define. The way mental illnesses affect people is also quite diverse. In each individual a mental illness most likely will run a course different from that in the next individual. And personality disorders, such as antisocial personality, can range over a broad spectrum when considering its similarities and differences in different people.

The most commonly accepted predeterminant of sociopathy would be a grave degree of early parental neglect. If anything, this seems to be the most diagnostic factor in forming antisocial personality. A person, even an animal, needs some form of just post-natal bonding with another person or animal in order to form proper relationships with others as he or she ages. When this is not provided, all h-e-double-toothpicks, as they say, breaks loose. As an aside, it does not matter the race, age or sex of the individual with whom the baby must bond. In the animal kingdom, a duck may bond to a dog, a penguin to a wildebeest. As long as the elder animal is nurturant, the animal does well. In the animal world, this bonding is called imprinting. In the human world, the lack of such bonding results in something called "mental illness."

Other considered factors are problems with the cortex and, possibly, heredity. A theory I find of interest is that very low or very high intelligence may play a role. Risk-taking behavior is more a symptom than a precursor. I am unsure where upon the spectrum would fall impulsivity. Is it a cause of sociopathy? Does the psychopathic personality just gravitate to problems with impulse control? Of course, substance abuse is always mentioned. But sellf-medicating substance use or abuse is a component of all mental illnesses.

As an aside, when people refer to sociopathy, they are referring to one or possibly more of the following. These are different, but largely by degrees. Learning about sociopathy, psychopathy, asocial personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, disocial personality disorder will further your enlightenment, such as it may be in the darkness, about the others.

source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_makes_people_become_sociopath)

seeker/reader
25th April 2013, 11:23
---------------

northstar
25th April 2013, 11:43
I have encountered a few psychopaths over the years and here are some factors I have noticed:

- superficial charm: psychopaths "present well"
psychopaths often have an animal magnetism that makes others gravitate to them. It is a bit like the "life of the party". I suspect that is because psychopaths have supreme self confidence and they like the attention (life force) which they get in abundance when others give it to them.

- a trail of tears: psychopaths often leave a trail of chaos, havoc, misery and devastation behind them.

- words as a weapon: psychopaths are very good at weaving a web with their words, into which unsuspecting victims are trapped.
Once you are trapped in the web of a psychopath, unless you get away you will definitely be eaten. Obviously I don't mean this literally, but the psychopath will destroy your good name, your relationships, your peace of mind, your finances, your health, and pretty much anything else they can before they get out of Dodge.
When you are with a person like this notice very carefully the effect they have on your energy. I work with a woman who appears lively and superficially charming but who has done many negative and destructful things to co-workers. When I have to spend hours with her at a meeting at the end of the day I am utterly drained and feel like a husk. I told a friend about this and he said she was an energy vampire and he gave me a simple psychic protection technique to do around her. The point is that often these people are not easy to spot so it is helpful to check your inner discernment.

GoodETxSG
25th April 2013, 14:46
You have no idea how important this Thread is. It should be required reading.

There are so many functional sociopaths in society and you brush shoulders with them each and every day! Not to mention the ones running our corporations and countries.

Being able to SPOT one is something everyone should become adept at. It is difficult at first, they are chameleons. Once you get it down they stick out to your well trained eye.

After reading the list above you can see why they are singled out in boot camp and other fields for certain OP's Teams and Organizations.

During the times we are in now and the ongoing operations against the public we all need to hone this skill as well as be observant of our surroundings. I know, who wants to life a life of paranoia right? But if you have loved ones to protect... these are the soulless bastards we have to keep an eye out for.

Thank you again for the Thread OP!

EsmaEverheart
25th April 2013, 15:26
Wow! All those traits describe my ex-husband. Which I know sounds funny but it is the absolute truth. I count myself very lucky to have gotten away from him.

Star Mariner
25th April 2013, 15:58
Thanks for this. It's very sad isn't it, that so many damaged people of this variety are walking the world (and running it).


As a great example of this in action, watch this interview of Charles Manson on YouTube.

Haha. Well to be honest, this sentence could read: "As a great example of this in action, watch any interview with any Politician on Youtube."

Sidney
25th April 2013, 16:12
If you are a victim of sociopath or narcissistic abuse, join the Avalon group for info and support.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/group.php?groupid=26

actually i believe this is an invite only group. So you need to ask for an invite from the owner of the group.:rolleyes:

Linda Joy Crutcher
25th April 2013, 17:11
I will tell you what I have been given about sociopathy. They come into the realm as sociopaths and are not created. They are living in mind without the benefit of an emotional body to balance them. The only emotional reality they have is the impact upon themselves because of circumstances they can't control. They are brilliant maniuplators by reflecting exactly what others want to hear or believe. They are human consciousness without an emotional base and they are fascinating!

Sociopaths teach us much about ourselves in that we fall 'victim' to their persuasions quickly and put trust into them absolutely. The question is not, what are they doing, but; what are we doing? These people have a masterful ability to tell us exactly what we want to hear and believe, and if we look back and examine our participation in those relationships, we can easily acknowledge what it was in ourselves that needed to hear and believe what they had to dish out.

People who engage with sociopaths always get hurt because they misplace trust. In many, if not most cases, sociopaths calculate to get something; usually money or material treasures (they have no interest in hearts except to manipulate them). Because they live in mind and have no concept of how they impact people emotionally, they simply play an emotional game in order to extract what they want. Most people are looking for love and are easy prey for the cleaver mind of the sociopath; we become so-called victims because we are emotionally void.

It is imperative to observe and listen before putting trust into anyone. The only thing we can trust is that each person will be who he is and perform according to the consciousness in which we lives. When we pay attention, signs always surface as to what we're dealing with.

Sociopaths are here to show us what we're capable of while experiencing ourselves in a separated or dual state, without an emotional body. We learn compassion and love through the emotional body and because of that, are less likely to target others for material gain. However, as evidenced by history, people across the board are capable of sociopathic behavior; it's the greed factor!

Hope that helps you understand this psychology a little better.

Sidney
25th April 2013, 17:26
I will tell you what I have been given about sociopathy. They come into the realm as sociopaths and are not created. They are living in mind without the benefit of an emotional body to balance them. The only emotional reality they have is the impact upon themselves because of circumstances they can't control. They are brilliant maniuplators by reflecting exactly what others want to hear or believe. They are human consciousness without an emotional base and they are fascinating!

Sociopaths teach us much about ourselves in that we fall 'victim' to their persuasions quickly and put trust into them absolutely. The question is not, what are they doing, but; what are we doing? These people have a masterful ability to tell us exactly what we want to hear and believe, and if we look back and examine our participation in those relationships, we can easily acknowledge what is was in ourselves that needed to hear and believe what they had to dish out.

People who engage with sociopaths always get hurt because they misplace trust. In many, if not most cases, sociopaths calculate to get something; usually money or material treasures (they have no interest in hearts except to manipulate them). Because they live in mind and have no concept of how they impact people emotionally, they simply play an emotional game in order to extract what they want. Most people are looking for love and are easy prey for the cleaver mind of the sociopath; we become so-called victims because we are emotionally void.

It is imperative to observe and listen before putting trust into anyone. The only thing we can trust is that each person will be who he is and perform according to the consciousness in which we lives. When we pay attention, signs always surface as to what we're dealing with.

Sociopaths are here to show us what we're capable of while experiencing ourselves in a separated or dual state, without an emotional body. We learn compassion and love through the emotional body and because of that, are less likely to target others for material gain. However, as evidenced by history, people across the board are capable of sociopathic behavior; it's the greed factor!

Hope that helps you understand this psychology a little better.

This is a VERY insightful post on the subject. I also wonder if they (the sociopaths themselves) have been a deliberate hybrid, created fully for their lack of emotion, and if so is that fact in itself for our learning benefit, or for the deliberate dismantling of our spirit.(or both)?

Maunagarjana
25th April 2013, 17:43
After reading the list above you can see why they are singled out in boot camp and other fields for certain OP's Teams and Organizations.

I wonder if they have certain techniques for spotting them. Or maybe it just becomes obvious after while.

About the military using sociopaths, I'm reminded of the old HBO Documentary about the hitman Richard Kuklinski, where there was a doctor diagnosing Kuklinski with several personality disorders and saying that some people with personality disorders find ways of being beneficial to society. One example the doctor gave is that people who do not feel fear in pressure situations could be good at defusing bombs. I'm sure the military has many uses for every type of personality disorder that exists.

noprophet
25th April 2013, 18:08
God forbid people lack strong emotional reactions.

That's never been used against anyone.... Xx

911, ww2, advertising, propoganda

Do not believe social pathologies are inherently destructive. Just lines in the sand.

Sidney
25th April 2013, 18:26
My ex sociopath had fear, of snakes believe it or not. Explain that one. he screamed like a little girl when he saw a snake from over 10 feet away. Is that ironic? Or worse. : /

Linda Joy Crutcher
25th April 2013, 19:47
It has been given me this way:

We are here to discover who we are. I don't mean this in terms of who we are spiritually. . . we all actually know who we are spiritually and just haven't brought it to consciousness. This realm is one of condensed energy and reflection. Every aspect of consciousness must be demonstrated here; present itself to us so that we may observe and find our relationship with it. We are learning what god (that's us) does when it is separated from itself, living in duality and with free will. We are looking at human nature and how it functions as individualized deities in many different psychologies.

We cannot know ALL that we are if we cannot SEE what we think we are not. The objective is to observe these different levels of consciousness, recognize ourselves in them (however slight), and how they impact us as a whole. What exists in mind, exists in us all; we are one mind, one body and one love. Only through understanding will we come to true love of self and others.

We are preoccupied with finding that 'thing' outside, or inside, of ourselves and missing the magnificence of the human experience simply by paying attention and listening to the minds and hearts in front of us. We negate this idea of oneness by continuing to see separation in our own human connectedness and earthly experience.

Alien intelligence has come to me for answers as to why we do what we do here; they cannot understand it. Many here do not understand what they are doing or why they are here. We are one planetary experiment in zillions and more privileged than we know. We get to be and touch physical, tangible, visual, audible and loving god through each other, while we learn how destructive we can be because of the gifts we've been given, like free will and egos to get us through it!


Sociopaths are blessings to us; they extract the needs in us so we can see them; they teach us how easily manipulated we are when we misplace trust; they show us how man in his ego state functions when he is devoid of an emotional or love base; he shows us what we are, in our human form, capable of when we operate from the point of mind only; he is the answer to the question of why people like Hitler can do what they do.

Linda Joy Crutcher
25th April 2013, 20:06
posted by mistake

Linda Joy Crutcher
25th April 2013, 20:16
Sociopaths have no fear of people, not the natural world. They do recognize their vulnerability to nature's creatures. . they are brilliant, remember?

Linda Joy Crutcher
25th April 2013, 20:24
On this subject, it was given me that sociopaths come into the realm that way. There is no cause nor cure for their mental state. . . it is what it is. Psychopaths, on the other hand are created by early childhood trauma and their psychocology can be changed via therapy.

If this information is correct; sociopaths are here for a specific reason; to teach us something very specific. Psychopaths mimic sociopathic behavior, but have chosen the psychology in order to learn their way out of it as they teach others.

music
25th April 2013, 22:05
"The most commonly accepted predeterminant of sociopathy would be a grave degree of early parental neglect"


Thanks for the link Eram. If sociopaths are born, not made, then there may be some genetic basis, so therefore it would seem likely that their parents would be somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum, so therefore, not great nurturers.


“But self-medicating substance use or abuse is a component of all mental illnesses”


This perhaps comes from the psychiatric perspective that only the medical profession can tell us which drugs we need. Self-medication is not damaging in the empowered and aware individual, and there is always the shamanistic application of drugs. Of course, drug abuse is a problem, but the definition of drug abuse depends on where we sit within society

music
25th April 2013, 22:09
In my experience, they cant be defeated. My only solace is to ignore them, avoid them and most importantly, give them absolutely no way to control over you.
This is what they yearn for and desire the most, adoration and control.



Thank you for your personal testimony, and thank you for the good advice highlighted above, which I highlight to bring before our gaze again.

music
25th April 2013, 22:18
Maybe the reason these type of people feel no love/remorse/empathy is due to the fact that they lack the soul component that rest of population has.

Without the soul, they have no connection to the divine source, through which love emanates. These people are strictly human animals that operate as a predatory animal would, predate on others in order to survive. Without the soul connection they would learn to mimic others who do demonstrate "normal behaviors" in order for them to hide or camouflage themselves, as a predator would so as to not give their position away.

Now I am not saying that all animals lack a soul component. I look at my dog and do see something behind her eyes and in her behavior that I feel indicates that she does have a soul, but that is a topic for another thread.......


Yes, they themselves refer to this mask they develop. This comment made me think of the “Predator” film, and I could easily see this predator as a metaphor for, or analogue of, the sociopath.

This may tie into a possibility that I have entertained that perhaps the provenance of the sociopath is not terrestrial

Yes, animals have a soul component in my experience :) 

music
25th April 2013, 22:37
I will tell you what I have been given about sociopathy. 1) They come into the realm as sociopaths and are not created. They are living in mind without the benefit of an emotional body to balance them. The only emotional reality they have is the impact upon themselves because of circumstances they can't control. They are brilliant maniuplators by reflecting exactly what others want to hear or believe. They are human consciousness without an emotional base and they are fascinating!

2) Sociopaths teach us much about ourselves in that we fall 'victim' to their persuasions quickly and put trust into them absolutely. The question is not, what are they doing, but; what are we doing? These people have a masterful ability to tell us exactly what we want to hear and believe, and if we look back and examine our participation in those relationships, we can easily acknowledge what is was in ourselves that needed to hear and believe what they had to dish out.

People who engage with sociopaths always get hurt because they misplace trust. In many, if not most cases, sociopaths calculate to get something; usually money or material treasures (they have no interest in hearts except to manipulate them). Because they live in mind and have no concept of how they impact people emotionally, they simply play an emotional game in order to extract what they want. Most people are looking for love and are easy prey for the 3) cleaver mind of the sociopath; we become so-called victims because we are emotionally void.

It is imperative to observe and listen before putting trust into anyone. The only thing we can trust is that each person will be who he is and perform according to the consciousness in which we lives. When we pay attention, signs always surface as to what we're dealing with.

Sociopaths are here to show us what we're capable of while experiencing ourselves in a separated or dual state, without an emotional body. We learn compassion and love through the emotional body and because of that, are less likely to target others for material gain. However, as evidenced by history, people across the board are capable of sociopathic behavior; it's the greed factor!

Hope that helps you understand this psychology a little better.

Thanks Linda joy. 1) This is a concept over which there is much debate! Though it is probably of less importance than how to spot and deal with them.

2) This is very important. We create our reality in everything we say and do. The concept of the vacuum inside us ties into the phenomenon of "possession", which if you are interested you may read my take on in my thread Entities, possession and psychic attack (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55207-Entities-Possession-and-Psychic-Attack)

3) cleaver mind/clever mind: both are appropriate :)

Nanoo Nanoo
25th April 2013, 22:49
I think the lists have described pretty much every one i know ...

even me ! " They often appear to be sexy " i have often been toold i am sexy .... for an ant that is : 0 )


N
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DouglasDanger
25th April 2013, 23:07
I disagree fully, as a child of a sociopath, learning thier naturre who and what they come from is not easy. When they are attempting to teach thier brand of sociopathy is when you learn where when and by whom thier sociopathic button was pressed, once pressed it cannot be easily turned off, as it is an off button to begin with, you turn off your caring for anything else but yourself... But IMHO it is a button or switch that is pressed or turned off, Not something you are born with. We learn to become a sociopath from our mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles grandfathers and grand mothers.... It is labeled " family tradition" most of the time it is hidden..( competition and sport is an in your face display of training for sociopaths, " you must be number one, must be the smartest, must be the the most liked and popular, you must be the best"..). This would explain why certain families generation after generation have so many prominant sociopaths and psycopaths. It is something they have been teaching thier offspring for many generations..

music
25th April 2013, 23:09
I think the lists have described pretty much every one i know ...

even me ! " They often appear to be sexy " i have often been toold i am sexy .... for an ant that is : 0 )


N
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haha, gives new meaning to the phrase "ants in your pants"



DouglasDanger: I disagree fully, as a child of a sociopath, learning thier naturre who and what they come from is not easy. When they are attempting to teach thier brand of sociopathy is when you learn where when and by whom thier sociopathic button was pressed, once pressed it cannot be easily turned off, as it is an off button to begin with, you turn off your caring for anything else but yourself... But IMHO it is a button or switch that is pressed or turned off, Not something you are born with. We learn to become a sociopath from our mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles grandfathers and grand mothers.... It is labeled " family tradition" most of the time it is hidden..( competition and sport is an in your face display of training for sociopaths, " you must be number one, must be the smartest, must be the the most liked and popular, you must be the best"..). This would explain why certain families generation after generation have so many prominant sociopaths and psycopaths. It is something they have been teaching thier offspring for many generations..



As already mentioned, the debate rages over nature or nurture, but my take is that in most things, it is most likely a bit of both. The best example of the nature/nurture problem I can think of is the case of the 1960s London gangster twins Reggie and Ronnie Kray. Identical twins, identical upbringing, yet one was heterosexual, and one was homosexual. For me, the logical solution to this is that each identical twin has a individual soul, and one needed to be straight to learn what was needed in this lifetime, the other needed to be gay. Nature and nurture debates often neglect to consider the "spiritual" or energetic contect within which we all function. By the time they were fully mature, the "identical" twins were very different facially, behaviourally, tempermentally, and bodily.

Carmody
26th April 2013, 00:20
Tribal religion is the giant gauze or cover, that is thrust over and in the gaping wound of grouped sociopathy. This is both genetic and taught/learned.

Ie, the killer is many times deep into the world of tribal religions. The very face of us vs them. Tribal religion is inherently damaging to humanity, as a form of entrenched sociopathy, which is handed down through generations, polluting and shaping the gene pool of said adherents, all along the way.

The book never changes, the people shift themselves and their genetic expression to it. Extreme danger, here.

Nanoo Nanoo
26th April 2013, 00:33
The question is , do you have ants in your pants ? and if not , would you like some ? ba haaa baaa !

im so sexy right nooow !


N
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SieS
26th April 2013, 00:43
Hi, I am not a frequent poster here but like to add my 2 cent here. I thoroughly investigated this subject a long time ago and although the subject is well covered in this thread, there are two books that are invaluable and not yet mentioned. Both are downloadable:

1 is: Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work.

Researchers Paul Babiak and Robert Hare have long studied psychopaths. Hare, the author of Without Conscience, is a world-renowned expert on psychopathy, and Babiak is an industrial-organizational psychologist. Recently the two came together to study how psychopaths operate in corporations, and the results were surprising. They found that it's exactly the modern, open, more flexible corporate world, in which high risks can equal high profits, that attracts psychopaths. They may enter as rising stars and corporate saviors, but all too soon they're abusing the trust of colleagues, manipulating supervisors, and leaving the workplace in shambles.

and 2. Ups and Downs a book by Ruth Minshull

Sidney
26th April 2013, 01:09
Im afraid saying they are a blessing is stretching it a bit. They may serve a purpose for us to learn our weaknesses and vulnerabilities, but my ex was/is anything BUT a blessing.
My beautiful child is a blessing. My animals are blessings. The roof over my head, and the car in my garage, food on the table, blessings.......Someone who brought nothing but pain and chaos and stripped me of my well being (temporarily), a blessing????NOT SO MUCH.We will have to agree to disagree on that one. :p

music
26th April 2013, 02:46
Im afraid saying they are a blessing is stretching it a bit. They may serve a purpose for us to learn our weaknesses and vulnerabilities, but my ex was/is anything BUT a blessing.
My beautiful child is a blessing. My animals are blessings. The roof over my head, and the car in my garage, food on the table, blessings.......Someone who brought nothing but pain and chaos and stripped me of my well being (temporarily), a blessing????NOT SO MUCH.We will have to agree to disagree on that one. :p

I know exactly where you are coming from here. I sorrow for your past pain, but I am happy that you have survived, and that your life is now full of blessings. I would like to share something from my past though, that has relevance here. This is not advice from me to you, merely my perspective, one of many.

I was sexually abused as a child, pretty badly, and repeatedly. Despite my avatar, I am a male, and my abuse was uncovered when my mother discovered that my anus was bleeding. I was five years old. Initially, this was anything but a blessing for me. I retreated into myself, eventually repressing the entire memory. As a teen, I engaged in self-destructive behaviour, developed a kind of super-hero complex where I wanted to save the world, and if I was hurt or killed in the process, that was OK by me. I bear the physical scars of some of these exploits to this day. The emotional scars, however, are no longer there.

While on one level, I was in denial, on another level, I was in the deepest truth. I began having spiritual visions by the time I was seven. I became the quite observer, I developed empathy, a capacity for wonder, a desire for love. Eventually, after years of self-destructive behaviour, I started to address the issue. I really went off the rails as a teen when the memory resurfaced, but luckily found my way through, and had the good fortune to meet some amazing people, right when I needed to. My journey has very much been shaped by my experience, and there is no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't be the kind, loving, and (I think) aware person I am today had it not been for the abuse I suffered, and all that followed.

If I could go back in time and change what happened to me, I wouldn't. In doing so, or even in wishing to do so, I am saying there is something wrong with the person I am today. It was all part of my journey, and I am happy where it has led me so far. I have no residual ill-feeling toward my abuser. This doesn't mean I condone what he did, merely that what he did no longer has any power over me. Far from it. I am empowered, not disempowered.

Sidney
26th April 2013, 04:04
Im afraid saying they are a blessing is stretching it a bit. They may serve a purpose for us to learn our weaknesses and vulnerabilities, but my ex was/is anything BUT a blessing.
My beautiful child is a blessing. My animals are blessings. The roof over my head, and the car in my garage, food on the table, blessings.......Someone who brought nothing but pain and chaos and stripped me of my well being (temporarily), a blessing????NOT SO MUCH.We will have to agree to disagree on that one. :p

I know exactly where you are coming from here. I sorrow for your past pain, but I am happy that you have survived, and that your life is now full of blessings. I would like to share something from my past though, that has relevance here. This is not advice from me to you, merely my perspective, one of many.

I was sexually abused as a child, pretty badly, and repeatedly. Despite my avatar, I am a male, and my abuse was uncovered when my mother discovered that my anus was bleeding. I was five years old. Initially, this was anything but a blessing for me. I retreated into myself, eventually repressing the entire memory. As a teen, I engaged in self-destructive behaviour, developed a kind of super-hero complex where I wanted to save the world, and if I was hurt or killed in the process, that was OK by me. I bear the physical scars of some of these exploits to this day. The emotional scars, however, are no longer there.

While on one level, I was in denial, on another level, I was in the deepest truth. I began having spiritual visions by the time I was seven. I became the quite observer, I developed empathy, a capacity for wonder, a desire for love. Eventually, after years of self-destructive behaviour, I started to address the issue. I really went off the rails as a teen when the memory resurfaced, but luckily found my way through, and had the good fortune to meet some amazing people, right when I needed to. My journey has very much been shaped by my experience, and there is no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't be the kind, loving, and (I think) aware person I am today had it not been for the abuse I suffered, and all that followed.

If I could go back in time and change what happened to me, I wouldn't. In doing so, or even in wishing to do so, I am saying there is something wrong with the person I am today. It was all part of my journey, and I am happy where it has led me so far. I have no residual ill-feeling toward my abuser. This doesn't mean I condone what he did, merely that what he did no longer has any power over me. Far from it. I am empowered, not disempowered.

Wow music, thank you for sharing, and I am so sorry for what you endured as a child. i do now understand your point!! And you are farther down the road than I in the forgiveness department. You are indeed very insightful, and you are so right about how our experiences shape our journey.
Hugs and Blessings to you.:grouphug:

Maunagarjana
27th April 2013, 09:15
That was very inspiring, music, and I'm sorry that happened. But as you say, it made you stronger and wiser. I find it interesting how many people cannot see that the things they detest the most are in fact (in the big picture) good for them. Not because they are good, but because they are not, and because they challenge you to bring the best out in yourself. It's so easy to get stuck in this "why me, poor me" viewpoint and never get wise to the larger patterns playing out. And before people think "But what hardship have you gone through to say such a thing"....haha, I'm not as brave as you, music, but suffice to say, I know precisely and intimately of what I speak.

I'm reminded of some lines of poetry I wrote:

For all curses are blessings in grotesque disguise
When you can suffer to open up your eyes
And pull yourself from that egoistic dream
To see few things in life are ever as they seem

music
27th April 2013, 11:03
Thanks for the blessings and love. I know my description was a bit full on, TMI for most people, but really, I wrote bluntly for those few souls who might read my words and feel more empowered or less alone. Apologies to those who were put off, but hey, consider it a test of the old empathy circuit - if it's hard for you to read, imagine what it would be like to live. Blunt talk wins few friends, but my opinion is that in matters like this it is the only way to go. The time for sweeping this stuff under the rug of denial or false-memory syndrome is long passed. My partner commented that the thread kind of died after, but I kinda knew it would anyway :) I'm not saying most people don't care, bacause most here do, just acknowledging how difficult it is to reply to something like that.

Guest
29th April 2013, 23:49
Thank you for the thread very informative and good advice.

One of the most difficult tasks for me has been in understanding and seeing clearly that there are human beings in the world that do not consider other, lack the ability to have compassion and view other human beings as prey.

I do not know if the psychopath/sociopath has a soul or not, whether they are more connected to the hind brain or if it is nature/nurture. These are all questions I've thought a lot about since I discovered that wiring complexities in some human beings are completely different than most.

In the case of the Soul maybe it is detached from the spirit and body or significantly underdeveloped. Maybe they are predisposed to it genetically and it is enforced by their environment. Perhaps it is a combination of spiritual, genetics and environment. I don't know.

It brings about in me a degree of sadness that they do not have a full spiritual and emotional human experience.

Music, I'm so sorry that something so horrific happened to you as a child. Amazing you forgave the person that molested you. You are very brave and strong.


Love

Nora

minkton
2nd May 2013, 11:30
I disagree fully, as a child of a sociopath, learning thier naturre who and what they come from is not easy. When they are attempting to teach thier brand of sociopathy is when you learn where when and by whom thier sociopathic button was pressed, once pressed it cannot be easily turned off, as it is an off button to begin with, you turn off your caring for anything else but yourself... But IMHO it is a button or switch that is pressed or turned off, Not something you are born with. We learn to become a sociopath from our mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles grandfathers and grand mothers.... It is labeled " family tradition" most of the time it is hidden..( competition and sport is an in your face display of training for sociopaths, " you must be number one, must be the smartest, must be the the most liked and popular, you must be the best"..). This would explain why certain families generation after generation have so many prominant sociopaths and psycopaths. It is something they have been teaching thier offspring for many generations..

Searingly astute. Thanks for clarifying about the "off button" that has been pressed. Makes complete sense of the entire pathology.

music
2nd May 2013, 17:00
This would be a good point to ask if anyone has every heard/read/experienced a sociopath being "unmade". If we are "made" something, we can be "unmade", if we are born something, that is what we are. Sport, as an example, feeds off so many insecurities, I don't think we can label all people who overly push their kids to succeed at sport as sociopaths. This would appear to me to just as easily be the action of one who is grossly insecure and disempowered psychologically (no matter how "strong" they appear), where a sociopath is the opposite of this. True they have one point in common - they are both good at hiding who they really are. Or maybe sociopaths are sociopaths because they know only fear, nothing but fear. Could their behaviour stem from this?

And also, back to a former point - what are they here to teach us? Where do they fit in? Perhaps they are a warning to us of what we shall become if we continue to labour under the fear-based reality we allowed ourselves to be hoodwinked into?

Sérénité
3rd May 2013, 15:56
The sociopath who I'm unfortunate enough to know has two children (both now adults)
One who is most definately the carbon copy of his father, is also a sociopath, quite possibly worse than his father, if that is at all possible!
The other child, a daughter, has slowly over the years increased in the negative traits leaning towards this disposition also.

The father/grandfather of those mentioned, I believe had severe mental health issues, but am unaware as to the exact clinical diagnosis/personality disorder genre for him.

I guess this means they could fall into either or both of the nature and nurture conclusions for the root of sociopathic tendancies? But the fact the daughter has only over the past decade during her 30's increased these traits makes me wonder...

...is it a genetically imprinted trait? but maybe conditioning during childhood/early adulthood either allows the individual to suppress and over come it, or push them to the edge into full-blown sociopathy?

Sérénité
3rd May 2013, 16:11
And also, back to a former point - what are they here to teach us? Where do they fit in? Perhaps they are a warning to us of what we shall become if we continue to labour under the fear-based reality we allowed ourselves to be hoodwinked into?

In my experience, these people have taught me valuable life lessons. At first, for the first 10-15 years they were just a constant bain in both mine and a loved ones life. I cursed the day they were brought into my life and looked forward to the day they would hopefully be removed from it. It never happened!
Over the past few years Ive come to realise that everything happens for a reason and even the bad things that happen to us, the bad people that come into our lives, are here to teach us a life lesson, about either what we need to change in ourselves or make sure we do not ever become.

These people have taught me so much. Rely on nobody, stand on your own feet and be beholden to nothing and nobody. Have self respect and compassion for others. Do not let the world around you make you hard, but stand bold and stand strong. Above all, love and be loved, with integrity, passion and pureness of soul.

That's something these people will never, ever, be blessed enough to have and behold!

Eram
3rd May 2013, 16:47
One more sign to spot a psychopath is to study the fathers of woman who are very firm on remaining childless.

Many daughters of male psychopaths, for some reason, do not want to have children.
When talking about the subject, they tend to be 100 % sure about not wanting to bring children into this world.

seeker/reader
3rd May 2013, 21:32
------------------

music
3rd May 2013, 22:06
And also, back to a former point - what are they here to teach us? Where do they fit in? Perhaps they are a warning to us of what we shall become if we continue to labour under the fear-based reality we allowed ourselves to be hoodwinked into?

In my experience, these people have taught me valuable life lessons. At first, for the first 10-15 years they were just a constant bain in both mine and a loved ones life. I cursed the day they were brought into my life and looked forward to the day they would hopefully be removed from it. It never happened!
Over the past few years Ive come to realise that everything happens for a reason and even the bad things that happen to us, the bad people that come into our lives, are here to teach us a life lesson, about either what we need to change in ourselves or make sure we do not ever become.

These people have taught me so much. Rely on nobody, stand on your own feet and be beholden to nothing and nobody. Have self respect and compassion for others. Do not let the world around you make you hard, but stand bold and stand strong. Above all, love and be loved, with integrity, passion and pureness of soul.

That's something these people will never, ever, be blessed enough to have and behold!

Thank you so much, Sérénité, your strength and wisdom garnered from your experience is inspiring, and your ability to remain in the heart is a blessing and hope to us all. I really can't thank you enough. I think we can certainly learn from others, from the "good" and the "bad", and I like the way you say "do not let the world around you make you hard". This is a key point for me too. In this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52114-Natural-Teleportation&p=669454&viewfull=1#post669454) unrelated thread, I say some things I think are relevant here "We grow when we learn to listen to others, but see as truth only what we find within ourselves" and "Magic is the intelligence of Love in action.

You earlier post too is interesting. It is true that in most things we look at, both nature AND nurture play a key role, and it can be difficult to tease out which is which.

music
3rd May 2013, 22:17
My partner reminded me of something just now. Her father was at a psychology conference having a discussion with a world leader on psychopathy and sociopathy. He said one way to spot a sociopath is to look at their shoes. If the top half is well-presented, but the shoes are old, scuffed or generally crappy, there is a chance we are dealing with a sociopath. They are so secure in the belief that we will be captivated by their faces, they neglect the bottom half.

music
3rd May 2013, 23:10
I wonder if the sociopaths are utilized or influenced by the phenomena called "dark satellite".

I have listened to a few interviews with Santos Bonacci where he mentions something called "the dark satellite". He references the Thomas H. Burgoyne book, "The Light of Egypt".

Santos states that this dark satellite, which is the animal chakra of the planet Earth, is the possible source/mechanism behind the malignant forces that operate on this planet (TPTB). The dark satellite, is called by Burgoyne, the realm of the undeveloped good in Nature.

It reminds me somewhat of the description of the Arcontic forces that John Lash says exist in another dimension, that try to deviate humanity from their true path.

I started a thread that has excerpts from Burgoyne's book that describe the dark satellite here http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58851-The-dark-satellite-the-realm-of-the-undeveloped-good-in-Nature-Thomas-H....

Hi seeker/reader, I reproduce here the reply I made to the thread you linked to. You will see I am in polite disagreement :)

Hmm, thanks for posting, but this seems like disempowerment to me. Though I could be wrong of course. In this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52114-Natural-Teleportation&p=669454&viewfull=1#post669454) post in another thread I say:


Kundalini is a feminine energy (as is Christ consciousness), but like all in this physical realm, She is made up of a masculine and a feminine stream. Just as the ley lines that circuit the earth, meeting at points of power (fundamentally earth chakras) are made up of a feminine and a masculine stream. In the context of this thread, we may posit that the miracles of Christ stem from a mastery of Kundalini. Christ is Love (which is the God that we all are), and it is no mistake that the most commonly portrayed hand gesture of Christ in art is the mudra for dispelling fear. To be beyond fear is to be Love.

In my opinion, evil is a product of ego-based consciousness, whether that consciousness be embodied or not. We have been manipulated into demonising our darkness to disempower us and prevent us from achieving unity consciousness. The dark principle is the feminine principle, and it one half of all physical manifestation, including life. It is one third of the trinity of masculine/feminine/magic. Magic is the thread that ties us to all that is BEYOND the physical, including all higher dimensions.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing"? This is classic ego-based consciousness stuff. This is a disempowering tactic, and a lever to gain the author elitism over the reader. The problem is, in my opinion, that we have allowed ourselves to be led into the trap of the mind, when our true nature and intelligence lies in the heart. We have been tricked into believing nature (which is analogous to our nature) is evil, harsh, something to conquered. The opposition of the poles is the fundament of physical mainfestation, and it is the game we have set up for ourselves. The problem is, most of us have now lost the rules of the game, and we live our lives based on the rules of those who have prospered under the dominance of the masculine principle only (which they themselves made pre-eminent). These people put ideas like this (evil earth death-star chakra whatever) into our heads to draw us away from our truth. How better to re-inforce and maintain the fear-based paradigm than making us fear the very earth we walk on, which is analogous to the feminine principle.

Sammy
3rd May 2013, 23:29
Hi Music, interesting post.

I decided to run down your check list as there have been times I was convinced I was a psychopath (which seems to be just about the same thing as a sociopath).

I am and/or do #1, #2, #5, #6 and #8

I am opposite #3 a.) as I feel shame, guilt and remorse at times and even regret, but then I examine my error and do my best to grow from the situation. #3b – when I obtain new information, I may shift my point of view which might be a surprise to others who counted on me to remain in the old point of view. Then sometimes, because of my new point of view I may perform actions which are considered betrayals by these others. I think that’s their problem, not mine. I perform actions based on my best judgment at the time as to what might be best for others in the bigger picture and over the long run. I don’t care what they think about it – again, that’s their problem.

#4 – I did this when I was young. I am now incredibly and rigorously and sometimes brutally honest. I do not have to embellish any aspect of my historical story at all whatsoever.

More about #5 - If I am to enter into any contest, I will absolutely do everything I can to win but within the pre agreed rule set. If no rule set is established, I do whatever I have to do to “win” unless I feel that the person I am beating is handicapped. I have learned to do this though still not at all as good at this as I hope to be. It is seen in the fact my post count has dropped so much. If I posted what I would like to post, I would become 9justone9.

#7 – I exist to experience love, which I find I experience the most love when I am giving in some form that is appreciated by the target.

#10 – I used to be quite delusional. I believe I am much less delusional now. Am I deluding myself? Perhaps.

music
4th May 2013, 00:10
I think all of us could relate to some of the points, we all have our place on the spectrum. True regret for harm to others counts you out. Sociopaths regret only what affects their control, when they lose a lover one, they regret the hassle of having to find another.


#7 – I exist to experience love, which I find I experience the most love when I am giving in some form that is appreciated by the target.


haha, sorry, definitely not a sociopath!

carnavas
6th May 2013, 12:04
As we are different and yet similar, we may all have perspectives but different ones,so I would like to give another perspective on this matter,this is just my opinion
what if this is stereotyping?I always thought if only one swan of the pond is black we can't say swans are white, this type of generalizing and putting white as a characteristic of the swans will violet the very rights of that only black swan(as ignoring its existence)and thus it would be wrong. I have always encouraged eveyone to break the limitations, to break the boxes, to push the barriers in everything. no matter how much you read and describe the color red, if you don't have the eyes to see you will never be able to spot that color. if we open our eyes to see, we will never again read the descriptions to spot things, we will meet everything and act accordingly as it comes to us and then we will know. sure there are people that hurt and harm and people who plan destruction in complex and unbelievable designs but this is how this world is anyway, we can either simplify and add lightness or overcomplexify and add darkness. life is full of mystery and wonders be it good or bad, we should not havoc in fear and remorse and go on hanging a warning sign everywhere we can. I think it would be better to put that energy into eliminating the fear and remorse that we don't need, sociopaths psychopaths devils beast dragons reptilians and etc are just the symptoms of a cause that is just here in this world in every one of us, these symptoms are either by our own self centered ego caused by separation or others, we are all part "sociopath" part "mentally illed" part bad and part good, some overcome those parts and some havent still, what have we done in the bigger picture to help? if we focus more on the harms and our open doors that they enter from instead of the harmer itself, we would have more control. it is as simple as closing the door. it would be better to not to give common sense branches and leaves until it ends up like a big unbeatable evil tree!if we practice to be suspicious of unknown things then we will be suspicious of everything cause everything has an unknown side and what of a good will it do?maybe we'll dodge one or two harms by stressing ourself all the time but if we look at it in another way, to invite harm cause we know this is what makes us who we are, we will be freed of their greed. how these dark streets are all part of us, we will come to love even the unlovable. when we're dying we will be thinking of all the things that made us who we are not the things we avoided, nature, our own body, is telling us this one truth, we shall not harm each other and as we continue, unite, the beings that are caught in a delusion and get incapable to understand this are incapable of the power of oneness and being incapable is to be destroyed and to fall.
Even in the side of the victim who wants to spot the traitor, it all depends on how much you're connected. if you see and feel humanity as a whole organ in a whole body then you wont be willing to lock away the spotted "sociopaths" cause they are just the diseased cells of a cause, but we will put our power for eliminating the cause instead of removing and locking the symptoms.we can kill the pain of our leg with a painkiller, but if we are more connected to our body and respect that part of our body as our leg, we will instead listen to its pain and focus on helping the cause not killing the pain and thinking everything is good now and go on with our lifes, well our body is our life anyway!I dont know if I'm putting my words right or if anyone is getting what I'm saying, but the more you get selfless instead of selfish the more these people cannot harm you.
this truth is even within us and as we look inside we will see, the more selfless the cells are and see themselves as a whole the more conscious and united you will be in the soul,or the consciousness of the cells are so united that they seem selfless.
By the way, I still do have thoughts about wanting to save the world and I'm okay if I die along and I don't put this as a self harming behaviour, I put it as the selflessness that is needed now to eliminate the causes, just like the cells that put you first than themselves. you must be empty to contain the magic.
I respect and cherish the human race so much that I cannot accept that someone is being born a "sociopath" or with something wrong in it, they either rise or fall. just because they fell it doesn't mean they were born wrong, they choosed wrong.
You see, my mother sometimes has very bad behaviours wich hurt me to the point of losing the will to live! but as soon as we forgive each other and get back the relationship I feel like I can even move the world. it is the best feeling.my hurt turns to a blessing.
Just my thoughts
Love

Delight
6th May 2013, 13:23
Thank you for this list and the discussion.
I read a book a few years ago called "The Saint and the Sociopath".
That is a provocative subject and the title implies that the two may be hard to distinguish because an element of glamor (the glow) attracts us to the ones who stand apart from the herd.

We all have heard that it is the "thought" and the intention and not the behavior that signifies the meaning. It is to society's advantage that we all police ourselves. So, despite the problems we have when we become mixed up and manipulated by people, maybe sociopathy by any other name means uncontrolable?

By any definition, a person who is outside the bounds of the socially accepted norms is capable of acting in very unpredictable ways, being without "conscience" (and conscience might only be the fear of shunning for approval oriented persons). I have had discussions with friends about "sociopathy" and we have come to the conclusion that sociopathy is only considered to be a problem for the victims of manipulation.

I was raised by crazy people and I have emotional scars and yet, here I am and will continue to be.
I think the whole notion of what is labeled sociopathy is purely about control and security measures attempted to prevent "perpetration"

That in turn is based on the idea that people are EVER victims.

I am really sure that we have a game plan as beings which may include some ugly looking experience.
However, I definitely suspect that there is advantage to being unattached to the ties of social bounds.
Despite feeling I am an affectionate and loving being, I also may be a sociopath because when I see victimization, I chalk it up to that being's attachment to victimization.

Sidney
6th May 2013, 13:28
A sociopath has no caring bone in their person. If they refuse to get help for their abusive routines, then it is self destructive to continue a relationship with that person. We have to protect ourselves. i am sure they don't say when they are small "i wish to become a sociopath when I grow up". But it happens. And I believe that somehow evil has found their way into the persons aura and taken over. This is my personal opinion.

BrianEn
6th May 2013, 13:32
Find a sociopath in your life lose them as quickly as possible. You will not be able to change them so don't even try. I had one in my life for a long time. They were so deeply entrenched in my life I found it impossible to get rid of them. Here's my to remember fact about sociopaths.....They need you a #&^ lot more than you need them. So ditch them as quickly as possible.

Here's some more web help.
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/psychopathy_checklist.html


How do I get rid of a sociopath in a way that does not show?
http://www.justanswer.com/mental-health/4qb75-rid-sociopath-does-not-show.html

Flash
6th May 2013, 13:54
My partner reminded me of something just now. Her father was at a psychology conference having a discussion with a world leader on psychopathy and sociopathy. He said one way to spot a sociopath is to look at their shoes. If the top half is well-presented, but the shoes are old, scuffed or generally crappy, there is a chance we are dealing with a sociopath. They are so secure in the belief that we will be captivated by their faces, they neglect the bottom half.

So wow interesting. i had never made the link, but yes, the psychopath I knew did not take care of his shoes that much, very expensive shoes, but not brushed or cleaned to a point where it was detrimental to the whole appearance.

Sidney
6th May 2013, 14:58
I don't know how common this is, but, he had no sense of smell, and he had terrible body odor and was not aware of it. Total lack of hygiene, yet was obsessed with things like his hair and exercise.

I guess I just answered my own question. Found this on Huff post.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A new study has suggested a poor sense of smell may be a marker for psychopathic traits.

Australian researchers studied 79 non-criminal adults and found those with psychopathic tendencies were more likely to struggle to both identify smells and tell the difference between them.

In a statement, the authors concluded: "Our findings provide support for the premise that deficits in the front part of the brain may be a characteristic of non-criminal psychopaths."

Psychopathy is a broad term that covers a severe personality disorder characterized by callousness, manipulation, sensation-seeking and antisocial behaviors, traits which may also be found in otherwise healthy and functional people.

Previous studies have shown that people with psychopathic traits have impaired functioning in the front part of the brain - the area largely responsible for functions such as planning, impulse control and acting in accordance with social norms.

In addition, a dysfunction in these areas in the front part of the brain is linked to an impaired sense of smell.

Researchers added: "Olfactory measures represent a potentially interesting marker for psychopathic traits, because performance expectancies are unclear in odour tests and may therefore be less susceptible to attempts to fake good or bad responses."

The research is published in online in Chemosensory Perception.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/26/psychopaths-poor-sense-smell_n_1915341.html

music
9th May 2013, 16:04
Hi Leili, of course, there is truth in what you say, and from the perspective of the high heart, it is the only way to see it. You mention the colour red, and whether we have eyes to see it, but you know, while the colour red is an outward sign for us of a certain wavelength, how do we have any proof that what you see as "red" is what I see as "red"? We might find agreement as to what name we assign to that wavelength, but do we actually perceive it the same? But still, there is a social agreement as to what red is.

And so too, there is a social agreement as to what constitutes acceptable behaviour. While all behaviour, from the perspective of our high heart and true nature is acceptable because it is part of the human game, we find ourselves for now in a world where people feel very real physical, emotional and psychological pain. We also find that often the real masters of inflicting this pain do so behind a facade of seeming decency, or even a "glow", and so rise to places of prominance. And from these places of prominance, they may be in a postion to prevent all but a few from realising their true natures.

I feel that I transcend the game, I connect with my true nature through my high heart, and when I do, I know that all is well. But still, I am compelled by my human heart to certain acts and words because we are not all there yet. I am not even there yet all the time myself. If I were, my need to be incarnate here would cease to exist, as I would be truly myself (one part of ourself), outside of all dimensional and temporal existance.

The dicotomy of saint/sociopath and the phenomena of the associated glow and attraction of each, while interesting, is still yet another form of duality polarisation.

Eram
25th July 2013, 14:28
Interesting!

A scientific study, done at the University of Groningen (the Netherlands) seems to indicate that sociopaths can feel empathy after all.

-----------------------------


Psychopathy is a personality disorder associated with a profound lack of empathy. Neuroscientists have associated empathy and its interindividual variation with how strongly participants activate brain regions involved in their own actions, emotions and sensations while viewing those of others. Here we compared brain activity of 18 psychopathic offenders with 26 control subjects while viewing video clips of emotional hand interactions and while experiencing similar interactions. Brain regions involved in experiencing these interactions were not spontaneously activated as strongly in the patient group while viewing the video clips. However, this group difference was markedly reduced when we specifically instructed participants to feel with the actors in the videos. Our results suggest that psychopathy is not a simple incapacity for vicarious activations but rather reduced spontaneous vicarious activations co-existing with relatively normal deliberate counterparts.

source: brain (http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/136/8/2550) oxfordjournals

northstar
25th July 2013, 15:50
Interesting!

A scientific study, done at the University of Groningen (the Netherlands) seems to indicate that sociopaths can feel empathy after all.

-----------------------------


Psychopathy is a personality disorder associated with a profound lack of empathy. Neuroscientists have associated empathy and its interindividual variation with how strongly participants activate brain regions involved in their own actions, emotions and sensations while viewing those of others. Here we compared brain activity of 18 psychopathic offenders with 26 control subjects while viewing video clips of emotional hand interactions and while experiencing similar interactions. Brain regions involved in experiencing these interactions were not spontaneously activated as strongly in the patient group while viewing the video clips. However, this group difference was markedly reduced when we specifically instructed participants to feel with the actors in the videos. Our results suggest that psychopathy is not a simple incapacity for vicarious activations but rather reduced spontaneous vicarious activations co-existing with relatively normal deliberate counterparts.

source: brain (http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/136/8/2550) oxfordjournals

I have found that psychopaths are able to feel or appear to have feelings but when you step back and reflect on it, their feeling capacity is always shallow, self - centered and/or insincere.

Research indicates that part of the reason psychopaths can operate effectively (do a lot of damage) for so long without being detected is that most of them are able to demonstrate their own shallow emotional resources when they feel it benefits them to do so.

For example, sometimes violent murderers appear contrite in court and hang their heads and mumble "I'm sorry". When I read the energy of those situations often what appears to me is that the person is not sorry for the terrible harm they have caused another (human empathy) they are actually only sorry for themselves (self pity and self involved narcissism). There is clearly emotion there, but how deep is that emotion?

If you are not sure about a person who is causing a lot of suffering in your life, I would encourage you to carefully reflect on the damage the person has caused, and the reaction of the culprit. Do they brush it off, do they make excuses, do they blame the victim? It is extremely common for psychopaths to explain away hurt and damage they have caused by blaming the people they hurt for their own victimization. Psychopaths can often pull this off because they are charming and they possess "animal magnetism", and they often weave a web with their words.

Agape
25th July 2013, 16:01
10 signs for spotting a sociopath

#1) Sociopaths are charming. Sociopaths have high charisma and tend to attract a following just because people want to be around them. They have a "glow" about them that attracts people who typically seek guidance or direction. They often appear to be sexy or have a strong sexual attraction. Not all sexy people are sociopaths, obviously, but watch out for over-the-top sexual appetites and weird fetishes.

Look to the Mirror

#2) Sociopaths are more spontaneous and intense than other people. They tend to do bizarre, sometimes erratic things that most regular people wouldn't do. They are unbound by normal social contracts. Their behavior often seems irrational or extremely risky.

Look to the Mirror


#3) Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame, guilt or remorse. Their brains simply lack the circuitry to process such emotions. This allows them to betray people, threaten people or harm people without giving it a second thought. They pursue any action that serves their own self interest even if it seriously harms others. This is why you will find many very "successful" sociopaths in high levels of government, in any nation.

Look to the Mirror


#4) Sociopaths invent outrageous lies about their experiences. They wildly exaggerate things to the point of absurdity, but when they describe it to you in a storytelling format, for some reason it sounds believable at the time.


Look to the Mirror



#5) Sociopaths seek to dominate others and "win" at all costs. They hate to lose any argument or fight and will viciously defend their web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.

Look to the Mirror




#6) Sociopaths tend to be highly intelligent, but they use their brainpower to deceive others rather than empower them. Their high IQs often makes them dangerous. This is why many of the best-known serial killers who successfully evaded law enforcement were sociopaths.

Look to the Mirror


#7) Sociopaths are incapable of love and are entirely self-serving. They may feign love or compassion in order to get what they want, but they don't actually FEEL love in the way that you or I do.

Look to the Mirror


#8) Sociopaths speak poetically. They are master wordsmiths, able to deliver a running "stream of consciousness" monologue that is both intriguing and hypnotic. They are expert storytellers and even poets. As a great example of this in action, watch this interview of Charles Manson on YouTube.

Look to the Mirror


#9) Sociopaths never apologize. They are never wrong. They never feel guilt. They can never apologize. Even if shown proof that they were wrong, they will refuse to apologize and instead go on the attack.

Look to the Mirror



#10) Sociopaths are delusional and literally believe that what they say becomes truth merely because they say it! Charles Manson, the sociopathic murderer, is famous for saying, "I've never killed anyone! I don't need to kill anyone! I THINK it! I have it HERE! (Pointing to his temple.) I don't need to live in this physical realm..."

How to spot a sociopath (http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html)[/QUOTE]

Look to the Mirror




If you did not break your nervous circuits upon this machine till now you are not eligible for medical assessment so what , anyway .



:panda:

Sidney
25th July 2013, 17:35
Agape, thanks for that list. I can assure you and other readers that it is accurate, according to my experiences with one. every single item on that list rings true.

Oouthere
14th May 2015, 22:18
I realize this is an old topic, but is sociopathy strictly a physical condition, spiritual condition, or a combination of both?

Tangri
15th May 2015, 01:08
I realize this is an old topic, but is sociopathy strictly a physical condition, spiritual condition, or a combination of both?

Probably, it is a spiritual condition, I was witnessed a lot of physically weak creatures just want to attack regardless of his opponent's abilities, I believe their instinct tell them to destroy all the potential dangers on their existence's way. They always kill,/ harm others, not them self, in the name of victim's salvation .

Flash
15th May 2015, 01:58
Agape, thanks for that list. I can assure you and other readers that it is accurate, according to my experiences with one. every single item on that list rings true.

I thank you Agape too, the list is quite on the point in my views.

However, Sidney, we shall not forget to look in the Mirror for each point as suggested by Agape.

Maunagarjana
15th May 2015, 11:08
I realize this is an old topic, but is sociopathy strictly a physical condition, spiritual condition, or a combination of both?

I tend to think that personality disorders are largely if not completely spiritual conditions. The causes can be anything from chakra blockages, past-life or current-life unhealed emotionally charged traumas, and entity attachments. Or all of the above, plus other things. Some people have clusters of personality disorders, not just one.

I think people who are sociopaths, psychopaths and malignant narcissists are people who have over many lifetimes chosen a negative path. People who have no conscience or empathy whatsoever to me seem like people who have completely blocked their heart chakra through the choices they have made over many lifetimes in relation to how they view and treat others, but also in the way they deal with their own emotions. It's really hard to be cruel and cut-throat and manipulative if you can feel for the people you are harming. So in a way, I think it starts out as a way to cope with their bad behavior.

But not everyone with these afflictions is an extreme case. I think there are degrees of pathology. Some people have slight personality disorders. I've met quite a few people who I consider to be just a touch sociopathic or psychopathic, and in those cases they can recognize such tendencies within themselves and guard against them. But I do think that, depending on how they live their life, who they hang around, and the experiences they have, they can get better, and they can get worse.