Going into light after death... or not?

[Demeisen]

Going into light after death... or not?

After our body dies our existence continues in non-physical form. It’s been often said that there is a white light where we all should be going. If we don’t go, we are supposed to be trapped in earth astral plane as “ghosts” or lost spirits. However, I have some serious doubts if this is the whole truth in this matter. First of all, I don’t personally believe that our endless reincarnation cycle with “karma” and memory loss (aka tabula rasa) is a natural state, but rather an artificial creation. By whom, I don’t know, but most likely it’s a part of the control system of this prison planet. After we physically die, our spiritual essence must be collected somehow to be prepared for the next round in physicality with erased mind. I suspect that the white light we supposedly see after death is the actual means for this “soul collection”. Some wild speculations even say that there is some kind of machine in moon that stores our souls and puts them back into the treadmill of 3d physicality.

On the other hand if you don’t go into the light. What happens then? You miss the heaven? The next level up from 3d physicality is the astral plane. If we have a control system going everywhere, I doubt that the astral would be an exception. Following that logic, leaving earth astral plane freely would not likely be possible either.

If you are a person who doesn’t agree with being slave or controlled by any means, you might not like either of the options above. Supposedly we have given our agreement to play these games and get trapped into the cycle when we first arrived here. And supposedly by soul evolution in aeons of time we are going to get free from it. On the second thought aren’t we free spirits now, not after another half million years in an artificially created control system with blank mind? Some of you might say that revolt is the certain sign of not being ready to leave earth plane yet. Regardless of that, I believe acquiescence is a state of mind like self sovereignty is another. I would like to have some discussion about this topic. Are you going into the light? Why? What other options there might be?

If this topic has been discussed already, feel free to post the link.
Thanks for reading.

[MargueriteBee]

For a few years now I have had the suspicion that these ascended masters, gurus, and most ETs are like the otherside of the coin of the material world but just another distract or delusion. I feel the reality of the spirit world is not completely known and most are just guessing or repeating the words of others.

[tnkayaker]

this seems to tie into the thread The Astral City possibly, i dont know how to tie thread/posts together , someone else should probably make that decision , none the less its all good info and warranted reading/listening as far as im concerned, thanks for the post Demeisen, peace,dennis

[Mercedes]

It is a most anguishing subject for me, because for no reason do I want to come back to THIS. I feel so helpless when it comes to the soul subject, I have no past memories like so many of you in this forum do so that I would have a frame of reference to what this is about. I love this earth and everything about her, but this reality is so so painful to acknowledge that I do not wish to repeat it. I do believe we are here to learn and evolve, but it is so terribly painful in so many aspects of human, animal, plant and mineral life that I may want to continue in this reality for who knows how many more cycles. The only thing that makes it worth the trip is LOVE , and that I guess is the teaching. We must end this life feeling love for everything we experienced... still... do not want to come back... ha ha ha.

[greybeard]

The bottom line.
Is do you know what you are?
Everything else is entertaining and has its place, but a distraction if you are serious about enlightenment--escaping the cycle of birth and death Karma etc.
I have never heard or read in a book by any commonly accepted enlightened one even one paragraph about ascended masters aliens etc.
Yes Jesus mentioned, Angels briefly but the whole focus is about the reader realising that they are in fact God. (God-realisation---Self relisation)

Now assuming thousands of years, generations of enlightened teachers are right, then who needs ascended masters?
To your own self be true.
Teachers point the way but inherent within every one is the Truth--- you are One without a second.
Just a question of realising that--- not easy but possible.
Going into the light?---You are the light
Dannion Brinkley of NDE fame said The being that you meet on the other side is you.

Chris

[Observer1964]

If I die I plan not to go into the light, I also believe this is something to erase our memory.

[Prodigal Son]

Hi Damiesen

What the Tibetan Book of the Dead (http://www.near-death.com/experiences/buddhism01.html) has to say about this rings true to me.


The Tibetan Book of the Dead

The Great Liberation Upon Hearing in the Immediate State

The Tibetan Book of the Dead, whose actual title is "The Great Liberation upon Hearing in the Intermediate State" or "Bardo Thodol", is traditionally believed to be the work of the legendary Padma Sambhava in the 8th century A.D. The book acts as a guide for the dead during the state that intervenes death and the next rebirth. He is considered to be one of the first persons to bring Buddhism to Tibet. The Bardo Thodol is a guide that is read aloud to the dead while they are in the state between death and reincarnation in order for them to recognize the nature of their mind and attain liberation from the cycle of rebirth.

The Bardo Thodol teaches that once awareness is freed from the body, it creates its own reality as one would experience in a dream. This dream occurs in various phases (bardos) in ways both wonderful and terrifying. Overwhelming peaceful and wrathful visions and deities appear. Since the deceased's awareness is in confusion of no longer being connected to a physical body, it needs help and guidance in order that enlightenment and liberation occurs. The Bardo Thodol teaches how we can attain Nirvana by recognizing the heavenly realms instead of entering into the lower realms where the cycle of birth and rebirth continue.

The following is a description of the bardo realms that one travels through after death.

The First Bardo Afterlife Realm

The first bardo comes at the very moment of death, when there dawns the Clear Light of the Ultimate Reality. This is the very content and substance of the state of liberation, if only the soul can recognize it and act in a way to remain in that state. The instructions intended to be read at the moment of the person's death are designed to help him do this. He is told, first of all, to embrace this supreme experience not in a selfish and egoistic way but rather with love and compassion for all sentient beings. This will aid him in the second step, which is to realize that his own mind and self is identical with the Clear Light, implying that he himself IS the Ultimate Reality, "the All-good Buddha", transcending time, eternity, and all creation. If he can recognize this while in this supreme state at the moment of death, he will attain liberation-that is, he will remain in the Clear Light forever. This condition is called the "Dharmakaya", the highest spiritual body of the Buddha.

Most souls, however, will fail to do this. They will be pulled down by the weight of their karma into the second stage of the first bardo, called the Secondary Clear Light seen immediately after death.At this point, there are separate instructions to be read according to the spiritual condition of the person while in life. For an individual advanced in meditation and other spiritual practices, there is repeated over and over the same instructions as at the moment of death, enjoining him to recognize himself as the Dharmakaya.For a person who was still at a student-level on the spiritual path, there is the injunction for him to meditate on his "tutelary deity", that is, the particular god for whom he performed devotional practices while alive. Finally,"if the deceased be of the common folk", unpracticed in any spiritual disciplines, the instruction is to "meditate upon the Great Compassionate Lord", which is to say an "Avatar" worshipped by the multitude, equivalent to Jesus as conceived by the average Christian.

The Second Bardo

If the soul is still not liberated at this stage, it will descend into the second bardo, which is said to last for two weeks. The second bardo is also divided into two parts; in the first, the soul of the deceased encounters what are referred to as "the Peaceful Deities."On each of the seven days, a particular Buddha-being will appear in radiance and glory, with a bevy of angelic attendants. At the same time, on each day in turn there will shine a light from one of the six worlds of the Buddhist universe, called"Lokas" (the basic meaning is "place";our English words "location" and "locale" are derived from the same Sanskrit root).

On the first day of the second bardo, there appears to the soul the divine Father-Mother - that is, the supreme deity of the universe, transcending all dualities, including the division into sexes. The next step in the destiny of the soul is determined by his reaction to this God. If his life on Earth was well lived, he will now be in a state of purity and grace, and he will enter into the joy of the God and attain liberation. If on the other hand he has lived an ignoble and impious life, the effects of his bad karma will cause the intense radiant presence of the God to strike fear and terror in his heart, and he will be drawn instead to the softer light of the Deva-Loka, which has dawned along with this deity. This is still a fairly attractive fate, for the Devas are the Gods (or angels), and their Loka is equivalent to the Christian heaven; however, the Buddhist teaching is that even heaven is not the highest spiritual objective, because it is still only a temporary state in the manifest universe. Liberation is believed to be the only final and permanent resting-place for the soul, an un-manifest state beyond all existence.

On the second day, there appears the second-highest God in the Buddhist pantheon - in fact, he is actually the Second Person in the literal Buddhist Holy Trinity. At the same time, there dawns a smoky light from hell; and here we note that, just as the Buddhist heaven is not a permanent, eternal state, neither is its hell. Even the most wretched souls will eventually work their way out of even the deepest pit of hell, just as even the highest and purest souls will eventually lose their footing in heaven and descend again into the cycle of death and rebirth. Liberation is the only way out.

Once again, if the soul responds to the "dazzling white light"of the second God with the joy of a pure heart, he will be liberated thereby; but if he specifically reacts with ANGER from having indulged in this vice on Earth, he will recoil from the light in fear and be drawn into hell.

The pattern is repeated on the third day; this time it is the fault if egotism that will cause the soul to react to the God with fear, and he will be drawn to the human world, where his next incarnation will thereby take place. On the fourth day dawns the God of Eternal Life; if the soul has a negative reaction to him because of miserliness and attachment, he will be drawn toward rebirth in the Preta-Loka, a world of"hungry ghosts"who have huge stomachs and throats the size of pinholes, and so they wander about in a constant state of unsatisfied ravenous desire. On the fifth day comes God in the form of an Almighty Conqueror; this time it's jealousy that will unseat the soul, and he will be born into the Asura-Loka, a world of fierce warrior-deities (or demons). On the sixth day all the deities return and dawn together, along with the lights from all six Lokas. On the seventh day there appear the Knowledge-Holding Deities, who are more fierce and demonic-looking than those that have previously dawned;and in fact they are sort of a transitional element to the next stage of the second bardo, where the soul encounters the wrathful deities. Meanwhile, if because of stupidity the soul cannot face the Knowledge-Holding Deities, he is drawn toward the Brute-Loka - that is, he will be reborn on Earth as an animal.

In the second week of the second bardo, the soul meets seven legions of Wrathful Deities: hideous, terrifying demons who advance upon him with flame and sword, drinking blood from human skulls, threatening to wreak unmerciful torture upon him, to maim, disembowel, decapitate and slay him.The natural tendency, of course, is for the soul to attempt to flee from these beings in stark, screaming, blood-curdled terror;but if he does, all is lost. The instructions at this stage of the Bardo are for the soul to have no fear, but rather to recognize that the Wrathful Deities are really the Peaceful Deities in disguise, their dark side manifesting as a result of his own evil karma. The soul is told to calmly face each demon in turn and visualize it as the deity it truly is, or else as his own tutelary deity; if he can do this, he will merge with the being and attain the second degree of Liberation, that lesser aspect of it which is now the best he can hope for here in the second bardo.

Furthermore, he is told to awaken to the fact that all these fearsome creatures are not real, but are merely illusions emanating from his own mind. If he can recognize this, they will vanish and he will be liberated.If he can't, he eventually wanders down to the third bardo.

The Third Bardo

In the third bardo the soul encounters the Lord of Death, a fearsome demonic deity who appears in smoke and fire, and subjects the soul to a Judgment. If the dead person protests that he has done no evil, the Lord of Death holds up before him the Mirror of Karma, "wherein every good and evil act is vividly reflected." Now demons approach and begin to inflict torments and punishments upon the soul for his evil deeds. The instructions in the Bardo Thodol are for him to attempt to recognize the Voidness of all these beings, including the Lord of Death himself; the dead person is told that this entire scene unfolding around him is a projection from his own mind. Even here he can attain liberation by recognizing this.

The soul who is still not liberated after the Judgment will now be drawn remorselessly toward rebirth.

The lights of the six Lokas will dawn again; into one of these worlds the soul must be born, and the light of the one he is destined for will shine more brightly than the others.The soul is still experiencing the frightening apparitions and sufferings of the third bardo, and he feels that he will do anything to escape from this condition. He will seek shelter in what appear to be caves or hiding-places, but which are actually the entrances to wombs. He is warned of this by the text of the Bardo Thodol, and urged not to enter them, but to meditate upon the Clear Light instead; for it is still possible for him to achieve the third degree of liberation and avoid rebirth.

Finally there comes a point where it is no longer possible to attain liberation, and after this the soul is given instructions on how to choose the best womb for a favorable incarnation. The basic method is non-attachment:to try to rise above both attraction to worldly pleasures and repulsion from worldly ills.

The final words of the Bardo Thodol are: "Let virtue and goodness be perfected in every way."

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead

[Eagle Eye]

It's this physical life I would worry because that will define your next path.

You can't control the universal laws and "divine process" because if you do that , you will no longer need to be here.

[JohnEAngel]

Buddha said, ' i teach one thing and one only, that is, suffering, and the end of suffering.' that is my intent. my fear is not death but of rebirth.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

I have learned to never worry about that which you have no control over

I have understood never judge something you know nothing about

I have studied these things with a belief that i know nothing

and i feel peace as to whatever comes and i have no fear

i live a free life as a result as i am not making my mind a prisoner to fear

does a car have a choice where it goes when its done its life here ? no ... it gets recycled , re born as a toaster or a fridge magnet

thankfully we have a bit more scope in that department

one thing i dont do is wonder what im doing when i die because on my death bed i will be wondering what i did with my life

Live today

Naniu

[BrianEn]

I`m not worried about it anymore. I`m more worried about leaving the people here that I have bonded with behind. I worry about them having to carry on without me. I still have stuff to do on this planet and I`m not willing to leave at this time. When that time comes I know that someone who passed before me will come to guide me to the other side. If I`m wrong about this, I`m sure I`ll get filled in but this info is probably given out on a need to know basis, and I don`t need to know it just yet.

[truthseekerdan]

How can one describe or understand something that due to human limitations (language, concepts, etc.) is only pointing to IT however, it is not IT?

If one believes that is going to experience "light after death", that is what one is going to experience. Light and Love is a manifestation of All That Is or God.

Otherwise whatever one believes, thinks and desires will create his (her) own reality.

Ascension is "more or less" an expansion of consciousness and awareness...

"When I see that I am nothing, that is Wisdom. When I see, That I am everything, that is Love.
My life is a movement between these two." -- Nisargadatta Maharaj

[greybeard]

It took me a long time to understand conceptionally and still a bit to go, that we are not human beings.
We are consciousness in the disguise of human form.
Consciousness is formless and therefore neither male nor female
As Dan said the thought/belief system is so powerful that it will take the belier to whatever it believes is so after leaving the body.
If enlightenment has occurred in this life time then thats the last incarnation here.
If we still have not realised what we are then return to misery is inevitable as pointed out in the Buddha quotation.
We are not the body not even a who--that denotes duality---we are the totality all of it.

Nasargadatta was a spiritual Genius as was Ramana Maharshi they are coming from direct realisation of Truth, not second-hand book learned information but direct awareness.
Time spent reading what they have left behind is time well spent.
Its not necessarily easy to understand but the words in the books carry the energy of enlightenment.
You in your essence is what you seek. Eckhart Tolle said "Consciousness is evolving to know it self"
If you want to know what happens when you leave the body the look at the NDE on u tube-- their experiences are similar.
Here is Dannion


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt5ji7b9ig

[DarMar]

if you think for a bit you will notice one thing, since you came to this world you entered conditioning world and everything is based mostly on choice.
Do you choose dark or light side?
Do you love or hate to drink milk?

Do not fall into trap that you have to choose light or dark after death. Human spirit has greater power than choosing, it is called creating!

[Bongo]

You should read The Eye Of Ra by Truman Cash.

He is an alien abductee who has recovered past life and inbetween life memories and says the same as you about the white light after death, that it is part of the controlling mechanism that keeps us enslaved here.

he is a member here at avalon aswell, here is one of his threads

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions

his books are downloadable from his signature that is at the bottom of his posts

[Billy]

When you live life on earth as an example of Love in action, You create your own light. You shine.

Only one question you will ask yourself when you passover, Did i love. You will know the answer.

Do not worry about which light to follow after death. Live a life of love in the moment then the light you follow will be yours.

Shine on, Peace.

[Wind]

I have my faith in the creation and the Creator so I'm not worried about "death". When your life will be viewed on the astral level it doesn't matter who or what you were. It only matters that what you did... Were you kind and loving or hateful and violent? Karma is the ultimate universal judgement, but there is no other judge than ourselves. When you have exhausted all your karma then you are ready to move on the next level. It's all a big cycle and it never ends, but it only gets better.

Only in this physical form we are susceptible to control, but in spirit form we are eternal and divine beings. And soon humanity will once again understand it's divine place in the cosmos. For too long we have forgotten our true being, but that time is almost over now. Everything is consciousness and we are part of it.

[ghostrider]

The light is you, you just don't remember it yet ... every spirit that dwells in a human body is part of creation, one of it's creatures... you are the light, just in a body for now, you will re-unite with the light and remember, the light is creation and it is you ...

[Craig]

The OP reminds me of the AlienInterview sites, http://alieninterview.org/blog/ and http://www.alieninterview.org/
Where it was mentioned about ancient alien forces battling each other and as indestructible beings we were caught and imprisoned here over and over again. Far to advanced for me to understand and quite soul destroying if true. But for some reason it rings an off tune bell to me that I can't ignore.

[DNA]

So I'm reading the Horus-Ra (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit) thread by Houman and folks are worried about something termed a soul harvester. This is explained as a machine that tricks folks into walking into a tunnel of light when they die.

And then I'm reading the Can a soul be captured (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?51678-Can-a-soul-be-captured) thread by Pieneal and it's pretty much the same question. So, I'm just going to state I don't think this is the case. I've heard the John Lear stuff, I've heard the L Ron Hubbard stuff, and there is just no way in hell I'm buying that.

I think this is important to addresse because though I think there is a energetic conspiracy of sorts involved with siphoning our being this does not extend to capturing our immortal soul.
I think it is hard enough to deal with the dark parasitic nature of our universe: we need to know that our immortal souls are protected by a higher more powerfull force than the dark.




The Taittiriya Upanishad describes the five affected bodies with which our untouchable immortal soul resides.


1. Anna Maya Kosha: The body made of physical matter

2. Prana Maya Kosha: The body made of vital energy

3. Mano Maya Kosha: The body of thought energy

4. Vijnana Maya Kosha: The body of higher intelligence

5. Ananda Maya Kosha: The body of mystical awareness


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfgMJHHjxY1MbtDYQxeJWTpowdVf4H3 6TfKm_M-twd0LwBPUNSOQ


Now, though I don't believe in a soul harvester that sucks down our soul if we let's say walk into the light tunnel upon death, let me clarify that I absolutely think there are mechanisms in place that feed on the residuals of our soul.

It is my belief that this feeding takes place on these extra energy bodies that are associated with our soul, and that these extra energy bodies, though folks are a tad oblivious to them are not the same thing as the soul.
As a matter of fact these aspects atrophy with age and neglect, and in fact die and disintergrate with the body upon death.
I just want to reiterate that the energy bodies are not part of the immortal soul.
They are part of the mortal coil, and they are going to die.

This small but very important difference is very significant to me. And to the point of this thread I think.

Edgar Cayce and many others told of the fact that we are multidimensional beings, and it is to this I am pointing.
It may very well be the case that we are indeed stuck in a matrix of sorts, and that the reason for our limited awareness and atrophied energy bodies is the result of organized forces feeding upon them.


I find this intriguing to no end because of a powerfull vision I once had.
In the vision I had actualized momentarilly one of my atrophied energy bodies.

Which one I do not know, all I know is that when I looked from the eyes of this body I saw not the world we know but a structureless flat plane, a few rolling hills.
And in this world I saw fields of human sized coccoons with humans inside, not physical bodies, but the energy bodies that apparrantly are in fact multidimensional and are kind of in a vegatative state.

And this is the freaky thing, a being was acting as a worker or harvester of sorts, and I described it as a stick man.
The being looked like a humanoid version of the walking stick insect. This is not to far off from what the Horus Ra being was described as looking.
I posted this on a thread here on June 13th 2011
The Horus Ra thread was started Feb 18th 2012
I obviously was not influenced by this thread when I wrote about the experience.
A Brief Multidimensional Encounter (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22614-Holographically-Projected-Human-Alien-Healers&p=243156&viewfull=1#post243156)


It is my belief that there may in fact be multiple forces acting in accord so to speak.
A different force for each energy body.
A different tactic or manuever for each different vibration of the energy body.
A multi-pronged attack.


http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8247/grey081406bfa5.jpg


I think the depections Dr. Malanga (http://evelorgen.com/wp/articles/military-abduction-milabs-and-reptilians/horus-ra/#more-1095)displays are unnerving to say the least.
But just as unnerving is the idea of the shadow being.
And more pervasive and more inclusive in my opinion is this pantheon of parasites headed by the arch-parasite if you will, the demiurge.
It is this force which propels and regulates the forces who wish to by-pass reincarnation and escape the natural order of the universe.

I'm sure many beings of many different races through out our galaxy and then some have joined it.
As such we can get many different forms for which we attribute the negative race of aliens perpetuating parasitism on our race, but in reality they all share this same shadow master.

Dr. Malanga (http://evelorgen.com/wp/articles/military-abduction-milabs-and-reptilians/horus-ra/#more-1095)stated
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png So, the transdimensional form is Horus, the dark entity within is Ra. It is in actuality nothing more than a black shadow or dot


I find this intriguing to no end. Dr. Malanga further contends that

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png Ra is a dark entity coming from another Universe, a universe archetypally situated behind our universe. There is dark out there, no physical bodies, no light, no love, no souls. This Ra entity places implants on the tailbone, below the sacrum, from where he hangs on to the abductee’s body, parasiting the persona and performing a perverse type of mind control. Ra may come and go to his liking.


This stuff blows me away, when I was reading the Wendelle Steven's book "UFO CONTACT FROM IARGA (http://abundanthope.net/pages/Books_-_eBooks_27/UFO-CONTACT-FROM-PLANET-IARGA-Pdf.shtml)" I was blown away when the contactee asked if Jesus in fact existed the Iargans replied of course and gave affirmation to him being a powerfull force for good. When the contact asked if satan existed the Iargan replied affirmative, it was synomous with what we term black holes.

This served as confirmation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52785-A-Soul-Cannot-Be-Captured#) of sorts because I had an experience with a shadow creature that I knew was no mere ghost.
The shadow creature was of human form, but make no mistake, it could have been reptillian, a grey, a Sirian or whatever.
I did not know then what I know now, but knew the connection it had to me was in my base chalkra area, and that it in my opinion fed on sexual energy.
This corresponds with what Dr. Malanga states above when he states

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/misc/quote_icon.png This Ra entity places implants on the tailbone, below the sacrum


Here is the post where I mention this, again, this post is from July 8th 2011, so again, I was not influenced by Horus-Ra thread which was created Feb 18th 2012

Shadow Beings Attracted to Human Sexual Energy? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings&p=258028&viewfull=1#post258028)




It is my belief that souls who do not enter the tunnel of light upon death become hungry ghosts. Bill Ryan mentions these hungry ghosts here HITCHHIKERS (a sort of partial possession) - and how to handle them (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52553-HITCHHIKERS--a-sort-of-partial-possession--and-how-to-handle-them). If you do not cross over into the tunnel of light, your energy body is going to die, and when that happens you will have no choice but to feed off of the energy bodies of the living.


Entering the tunnel of light has always been termed a enjoyable experience by those who return (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52785-A-Soul-Cannot-Be-Captured#) and tell of the experience, as is the case here with Pam Reynolds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k). This is the best documented NDE of all time in my experience and helps to illustrate the good in crossing over.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k



It is my belief that if you do not cross over and in turn become one of these hungry ghosts, you are then more at risk of being recruited by the Demiurge, and basically turned into a shadow being.
I think we are all here to learn through the natural order of reincarnation, and as such we have folks watching out for us that are yes, more powerfull than the demiurge.

I do not think we need to fear the light upon death, it is there to guide us, to embrace us and to welcome us.

[DNA]

The OP reminds me of the AlienInterview sites, http://alieninterview.org/blog/ and http://www.alieninterview.org/
Where it was mentioned about ancient alien forces battling each other and as indestructible beings we were caught and imprisoned here over and over again. Far to advanced for me to understand and quite soul destroying if true. But for some reason it rings an off tune bell to me that I can't ignore.

I thought this story might hold some kernal of truth to it,,it was told in a powerfull manner, but it turns out that Bill Ryan and Graham Hancock proved this story to be fiction and inspired mostly by L Ron Hubbards stuff.

[lookbeyond]

The OP reminds me of the AlienInterview sites, http://alieninterview.org/blog/ and http://www.alieninterview.org/
Where it was mentioned about ancient alien forces battling each other and as indestructible beings we were caught and imprisoned here over and over again. Far to advanced for me to understand and quite soul destroying if true. But for some reason it rings an off tune bell to me that I can't ignore.

I thought this story might hold some kernal of truth to it,,it was told in a powerfull manner, but it turns out that Bill Ryan and Graham Hancock proved this story to be fiction and inspired mostly by L Ron Hubbards stuff.

Hi DNA, do you think this holds true for another book by Kyle Griffiths-"War in Heaven"

Thanks lookbeyond

[DNA]

The OP reminds me of the AlienInterview sites, http://alieninterview.org/blog/ and http://www.alieninterview.org/
Where it was mentioned about ancient alien forces battling each other and as indestructible beings we were caught and imprisoned here over and over again. Far to advanced for me to understand and quite soul destroying if true. But for some reason it rings an off tune bell to me that I can't ignore.

I thought this story might hold some kernal of truth to it,,it was told in a powerfull manner, but it turns out that Bill Ryan and Graham Hancock proved this story to be fiction and inspired mostly by L Ron Hubbards stuff.

Hi DNA, do you think this holds true for another book by Kyle Griffiths-"War in Heaven"

Thanks lookbeyond

I have agreed with quite a bit of stuff from Griffiths. There is no denying the genius displayed here.


This is as good a place as any to refer to the groundbreaking visionary work of Kyle Griffith, found in his book War in Heaven (1988).


As a physical framework, Griffith speaks of "astral matter" that has an atomic and subatomic particle structure resembling that of physical matter, but possessing much less mass than the physical counterpart. Although the mass ratios among the various astral subatomic particles is the same as that of the physical ones, all have much less absolute mass than physical electrons.

Astral subatomic particles have gravitational properties that resemble but do not interact with the gravitation of physical particles. Likewise there is astral energy that does not interact with physical systems.

There is however one very important exception to this general lack of interaction, and this actually is the basis of "the secret of life": Astral matter forms complex organic molecules just as physical matter does, and their respective chemical bonds have similar energy levels and photon frequencies associated with them. This allows for resonance and chemical bonding between physical and astral matter. It is the combined molecular system that exhibits the basic characteristics of "life", such as irritability and the ability to reproduce.

This is how astral matter and the soul, which is constructed of astral matter, become involved in the reduplication of DNA and many aspects of cell metabolism.

The bonding provides a pathway by which some of the cell's metabolic energy can be converted into astral energy that feeds the soul, powering its various functions, and providing for regeneration of its astral matter, which is then used to perform cellular growth and repairs.

Death is caused by breaking the bonds between physical and astral matter.

The soul spoken of here is a primitive analog of the physical body. It is alive, but it is not sentient. It has a nervous system but not a mind. Griffith calls this the somatic soul. The "true" soul is the astral soul.

The astral soul is a body of astral matter linked to the somatic soul's nervous system by the famous silver cord. This is structured like a segment of plant root with feeder roots at both ends, tapping into the two souls' nervous systems.

Energy flowing from the body into the somatic soul and through the silver cord to the astral soul is the astral soul's only truly efficient source of nourishment.

When the body dies, the somatic soul decomposes. The astral soul does not, but it loses its best source of energy.

A new somatic soul is created during the embryological development of every new human being.

Griffith provides a complicated discussion of various methods of reincarnation, involving ways in which the astral soul connects, and interactions with the mother's astral soul. Although quite interesting, this is beyond the scope of our page.

What is important for us here is this: the astral soul (or spirit) normally receives its energy from the living physical body and must reincarnate within ten to fifty years in order to revitalize itself. If it does not accomplish this, it faces illness, insanity, and death.



I agree with most of the first part of this, but not the very last paragraph. It is my understanding that the astral soul or spirit is not only fed by the physical body and the somatic soul, but it is connected to source or God. This is especially true when our souls have crossed over. The crossing of the tunnel of light described by so many NDE experiencers is the leaving of this world we know and entering a higher world, one that is closer to God and the sustenance God provides.

Neither do I agree that souls can be parasite bled to death and killed as Griffiths states in this same book.
Though I honestly don't know this for sure.
It is my experience that those the Tibetan Book of the dead calls hungry ghosts are beings that have not crossed over and as such do not have a somatic body to feed their astral body, as such these hungry ghosts feed on the living, and it is my experience that they are everywhere, almost all of the time.
It is also my experience that these hungry ghosts, if they persist in their activities and refuse to cross over can eventually be enlisted by these dark angels as griffiths calls them and be turned into shadow beings.

I state this stuff in the post I made that is like two posts before this one.
So, I dont' know the end result of a shadow being. Can it die? I honestly don't know. I've always kind of assumed that it would not and that it would eventually find it's way back to the source.

[Fred Steeves]

You know, I'm beginning to think that even the way we consider "death" is yet another layer of our programming. Something more akin to night and day seems more appropriate. Do we fear a beautiful sunset, and what we will do afterwards? Well, I reckon so if we haven't prepared for it. Did we gather our food, firewood, and make a comfy place to sleep when it was still light out?

It can mean the difference between warmly telling stories around the camp fire, or sitting shivering and hungry, wondering how it got this way. It's not rocket science, and we don't even need to know what type of wood our fire is built out of, but if we take care of the basics during the day, the night will take care of itself.

[dpwishy]

The light is what strips you of your memories and experiences and tosses you back into the cycle of reincarnation. Enlightenment is knowing not to go into the light. Your life should be a preparation for death. You should be preparing and practicing for that one moment, that way at the moment of death you can keep your awareness and not drift off into a "sleep". This is why meditation and astral projection is so important! They are preparations to be able to keep your consciousness at the moment of death. If you can stay conscious here, the first thing you should ask for without hesitation is to ask to experience your "true self". Program yourself so that this is the first thought and only thought that goes through your mind. Don't be distracted by the realization of death, by the astonishment, beauty and so forth. Your only desire and demand should be to experience the true self.

You are fragmented over many realities, countless. You interact with them to some capacity wen you sleep, this should be familiar to you at some level. You should be able to have a free connection to these other parts of you. You are jailed off locked into this reality made to believe this is what you truly are. Some how we did this to ourselves. We were tricked in a sense to try a new experience not knowing that the experience would keep us trapped here over and over. You are put in a place where its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to learn what you need to learn within a single life to get "out". When you die, everything you have learned is scrubbed clean. Does this sound like a system that is designed for your progression and evolution?

But here is the kicker in my opinion. A secret I don't tell many. This is just a video game. Say that to yourself and remember, "This is just a video game". The population will wake up to that realization soon enough. And in doing so, they will realize that they have the power to play what ever game they choose collectively. They were always choosing which game to play from the very beginning, they were just manipulated in their choosing. They were choosing to pick unconsciously, thus were heavily influenced by outside forces. This is were the technological singularity comes in, technology will advance to a point until we realize that we are that technology and them BAM! I believe our education system, religion systems, political systems, authoritative systems, music, clothing, media, movies, radio, invisible frequencies and so forth are all being used to form our mind to make certain choices on auto pilot. It is this that keeps us playing this game unconsciously. Soon enough people will realize that this is a video game, the only rule until the technological singularity being you have to forget you are playing to play. And in doing so, we will choose consciously what to play together.

I'd like to add one more thing. About ten years ago I was taken from my body and I had an experience with the creator source. I saw the whole shape of the realities and dimensions, they looked like dna spirals that made up this weird X that rotated around its middle axis. It had this spin to it. I was sucked into a very tiny section of this. When I broke through to its dimension, the membrane was orange from the outside and only blinding white light after I broke through. I heard a voice telling me that I was not alone and that it loved me. I asked who it was and it said it was "God". I couldn't see anything only hear it and knew its presence was there. An amazing presence, that was undeniable. The light was so blinding and warm. I told it i did not believe in God and it told me it could "touch me", it could prove it. Without time to process what it said something went through my soul that just knew this was the creator. The most pure love I have ever felt. It honestly hurt to feel it, I felt it only for a second and it was gone. If I felt it for any longer it would have destroyed me, it was so powerful. I have been in love with girls, I love my parents, my family. But I realized at that moment I have never felt true love before. It changed my life forever and was the kick start I needed for my remembering. I came back to my body crying for an hour repeating "I'm sorry I didn't believe you". The reason I share this is because I broke through an orange membrane and came into the blinding light. I did not follow and go into the light. Those are two different things all together! That is important to realize.

[Joe Akulis]

My recommendation to the OP is to seek out as many astral travellers as they can, specifically those who have performed numerous "retrievals" from lower 4-d realms. Most of your answers can be found with these folks. Studying Near-Death Experiences is also a good way to gain understanding, as long as you don't just scratch the surface. You can't read three books from three different NDE'ers and then think you have some revelations. Read at least a hundred, then and only then, begin to formulate some hypotheses of your own. Then keep seeking.

I still believe that what you are faced with upon death is, partially, going to be exactly what you expect. Mixed with another percentage of what your higher self is going to use to assist you along the path of your spiritual progress, but not so far as to detrimentally challenge your current beliefs.

Once you gain more understanding of the different layers of 4-d and their characteristics, and how astral retrievals are performed, then I think the purpose of the light will become clearer to you.

[etheric underground]

lest we forget that we are amazingly creative all potential gods and goddesses.....we are more than you give yourself credit for DEMEISEN.
As you unfurl the inner light and knowing from your personal soul contract, you begin to expand your consciousness which allows you to comprehend that we are but an inkling of our full awesomeness....sometimes we can analyse and critique that which isnt making true sense....to this I say let it go and allow this reality ( 3d physical life lesson) to be all it can be from a positive perspective....the understanding of your death and next incarnations will become clear as we flow....much respect and gratitude kere.

[Finefeather]

The light that is seen by most at death is the very center or atom of the Being which is you...your Higher Being...your Spirit...your point of creation. This is the Spiritual Entity...it is like our son is the center of our Solar System.
Every object which has life has such a center...or permanent atomic source. This light is the attractive force which pulls us back 'home'...if I may use such a simple analogy.

If we have not fully accomplished our goal, in the life which has just ended, we will remain in some level of the higher astral and or mental planes...which is determined by the level of our vibrational state (enlightenment).
Here we will life for as long as we desire until we decide that another incarnation in some other body, with some other experiences, might help us attain the level of enlightenment or vibrational state, where we would then be able to avoid further incarnation...and merge with our true Self.

The Beings...who some people insist are holding us back...are those who assist us to prepare and choose a life situation which would best suit the vibrational state we are trying to improve on.

There is no one in existence, other than our own self, who holds us back or forces incarnation...it is a vibrational scientific issue. We cannot move into higher realms if our vibrational state does not allow it...this is why all good spiritual teaching tells us of the need to seek higher states of awareness or consciousness...more consciousness = more enlightened.

The problem of accepting this, arises when those who believe they are all squeaky clean and free from any negative attitudes...get all upset because they cannot actually accept their own failings...the good old ego having a bad day..."I'm perfect why do I have to reincarnate?"

Of course there are forces in this world which prevent us from accomplishing what we set out to do in each incarnation...these are the material forces...and they come in all shapes and sizes...in all lower realms also.
The plain truth to our destiny when we die in a life is held in our own hands and is determined by our own actions and if you are really unlucky some external forces as well...but they are rare.

All stories about the light being some trap is pure non sense...and comes from ignorant people who are trying to impress others by giving us the story of their fantasies which are driven by their own inner fear.

Take care
Ray

[BrianEn]

You know, I'm beginning to think that even the way we consider "death" is yet another layer of our programming. Something more akin to night and day seems more appropriate. Do we fear a beautiful sunset, and what we will do afterwards? Well, I reckon so if we haven't prepared for it. Did we gather our food, firewood, and make a comfy place to sleep when it was still light out?

It can mean the difference between warmly telling stories around the camp fire, or sitting shivering and hungry, wondering how it got this way. It's not rocket science, and we don't even need to know what type of wood our fire is built out of, but if we take care of the basics during the day, the night will take care of itself.

All I know is that I wanna go out as I came in. My time line has been shortened considerably since my hospitalization. It really made me think about what is important. Whats important to me is the people in my life. I have been able to forgive people in my family. Something that was a lot more difficult in my life. Im trying to repair the relationship with my nephew, Hes a man now but he still needs to be trust that I wont dissapear again. That will take a long time to gain that trust. The biggest difference is I dont put with people trying to bs me. I dont have time for that. Why would I want to have an honest relationship with a liar. I used to put with lies but now I cant in all good conscience. Now things are just different.

[dpwishy]

All stories about the light being some trap is pure non sense...and comes from ignorant people who are trying to impress others by giving us the story of their fantasies which are driven by their own inner fear.

That is a pretty bold statement....

[Finefeather]

All stories about the light being some trap is pure non sense...and comes from ignorant people who are trying to impress others by giving us the story of their fantasies which are driven by their own inner fear.

That is a pretty bold statement....
It just depends which side of the wall you'r on...of course, you'll need to climb over to my side to see what I see.

[dpwishy]

All stories about the light being some trap is pure non sense...and comes from ignorant people who are trying to impress others by giving us the story of their fantasies which are driven by their own inner fear.

That is a pretty bold statement....
It just depends which side of the wall you'r on...of course, you'll need to climb over to my side to see what I see.

There is a difference between the light that you talk about and going into the light the moment after death. It is two different things. But you're probably right, I must be on the wrong side of the wall.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

what if what we believe to be true in this life meets us as a construct the after life ?


our own perception extends beyond the physical as we have programmed our soul during life to emerge in another reality . . .


be careful what you think you know , you may just get your wish. : 0 )


N
N

[greybeard]

It is suggested on the path to enlightenment that all belief systems all concepts must be released for good reason.
Exiting the body in an unenlightened state will take you to what is in your belief system.
Jesus said "In my Fathers House are many mansions"
The preparation for exiting this world should be started as early as possible.
You came from Love, You are going back to Love, You are Love

So treat "others" as you would treat yourself--- you dont have to love them ---just be kind and considerate.

Chris

[Nanoo Nanoo]

IMO

the soul when in soul state is one with the All. it returns to its star home or energetic family called a soul group.

the soul then is flux energy in its purest state , loose , free , formless , everything and nothing all in the same moment experiencing the All and sonnetically connected to everything and all experience that is proportionally required in order for it to learn without influence upon its self beause it is fluid state.

When the soul enters a Formed Body its then reduced to a re writeable program and we are the mother board experiencing life and are able to re write the soul codes in accumulated experiences. This is a way for the soul to enter another state to experience its self .. to " feel " one must immagine being in existance for millions of years one would desire to forget so to experience things again for the first time.

One would be prudent to look inside and see the " possibility " that this concept to be true.

The wonder of our lives if we could see past death and fear would open up to TRUE experiences of love and wonderment . . .

the experiences we adore and those we attest will be sifted through as a learning program after we die to give our souls " purpose "

if we did not have this in the first 6 vales then we would be lost.

we choose to come back to experience brave things and forget on purpose or the game would have no meaning ..

there is no point getting lost in a forrest of which you know well . . . how will you discover the field of flowers ? or escape the clutches of the bears den ?

the experiences are what we adore and we are here to do judt that , with " Purpose "

Naniu

[Nanoo Nanoo]

It is suggested on the path to enlightenment that all belief systems all concepts must be released for good reason.
Exiting the body in an unenlightened state will take you to what is in your belief system.
Jesus said "In my Fathers House are many mansions"
The preparation for exiting this world should be started as early as possible.
You came from Love, You are going back to Love, You are Love

So treat "others" as you would treat yourself--- you dont have to love them ---just be kind and considerate.

Chris

Slainte mhor agus a h-uile beannachd duibh !


Hugs


Naniu

[Nanoo Nanoo]

You know, I'm beginning to think that even the way we consider "death" is yet another layer of our programming. Something more akin to night and day seems more appropriate. Do we fear a beautiful sunset, and what we will do afterwards? Well, I reckon so if we haven't prepared for it. Did we gather our food, firewood, and make a comfy place to sleep when it was still light out?

It can mean the difference between warmly telling stories around the camp fire, or sitting shivering and hungry, wondering how it got this way. It's not rocket science, and we don't even need to know what type of wood our fire is built out of, but if we take care of the basics during the day, the night will take care of itself.

Awesome Fred! what a beautifully simple and elegant way to look at it. this made me truly smile

thank you : 0 )

Naniu

[Finefeather]

All stories about the light being some trap is pure non sense...and comes from ignorant people who are trying to impress others by giving us the story of their fantasies which are driven by their own inner fear.

That is a pretty bold statement....
It just depends which side of the wall you'r on...of course, you'll need to climb over to my side to see what I see.

There is a difference between the light that you talk about and going into the light the moment after death. It is two different things. But you're probably right, I must be on the wrong side of the wall.
I have found no difference at all...I am talking about the same light that can be seen in advanced meditation, as well as in higher realm OB ventures, as well as at the point of death. This light is all exactly the same.

It seems pointless to me to attempt any explanation of this process in view of the fact that we are all in different states of awareness. I was giving you my opinion based on 40 years of OB rescue work I have been involved in. This work involves both the living and the 'dead' and I have helped people who have died literally minutes after the event. In all variants of this experience I have had, I have seen and being in the presence of the higher self of the person involved and in all cases this takes the form of a most beautiful white light which draws the person to a place of knowing and comfort.

Some people do become stuck in the lower astral realms because of fear...but mostly because of confusion...because of their belief system.

Where people are stuck in these lower states...and this is not the norm...is also where dubious entities also exist, and it is quite common for these entities to harass the confused person who has just died...this can result in a long and frightening experience if they are not assisted.

This could very well be confused by the wary and the less experienced Soul as some kind of control and manipulation. This same thing can happen to living persons who practice lower astral, out of body ventures, without knowing the probabilities involved.

This has lead to people reporting this layer of realm...which exists...but is not normally frequented...as been some kind of trap. Well the trap is what they have got themselves into as a result of fear...confusion and just plain ignorance...and I use this word ignorance in it's literal form...not knowing...and not in a defamatory sense. This experience is obviously disturbing to those who are not informed of the many inhabitants of the astral planes and unfortunately this has lead to stories and speculation of things which just do not happen.

In my experience the majority of people who get themselves 'trapped' in these lower planes are...drug addict...alcoholics...those who are involved in some form of cult like practice...and the extreme emotionally distraught person.

Take care
Ray

[dpwishy]

It seems pointless to me to attempt any explanation of this process in view of the fact that we are all in different states of awareness. I was giving you my opinion based on 40 years of OB rescue work I have been involved in. This work involves both the living and the 'dead' and I have helped people who have died literally minutes after the event. In all variants of this experience I have had, I have seen and being in the presence of the higher self of the person involved and in all cases this takes the form of a most beautiful white light which draws the person to a place of knowing and comfort.

Agreed, some even higher than yours.
But whos to say whos where and who knows what?
Seems like a giant generalization to me.
I could spit out my credentials also,
but I have no desire to seem any more credible.

This trap system goes all the way up to the top my friend,
there are evolved beings that are VERY highly evolved in this system,
that still do not see it for what it truly is.
They are lost in the illusion just as much as lower beings.
Just because there are layers, doesn't mean it isn't a trap.

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

[Flash]

dpwishy, i do not think finefeather is spitting out his credentials, but rather he is spitting out his own personal experience. In these terms, he is whos to say shows where and whos knows what, in his experience, studies, etc. There is a wide difference, in my views, between a giant generalization and experience one has lived.

You just need to be fully in your soul (or your soul fully, completely in your body, as it should, but i had not had this yet), to have thorough contact with your higher self, call it what you want, once, to be able to follow up on these words.

Yet, it may be the ultimate trap, as you say. However, if we create what we believe (project outward), I would rather create freedom and evolution, love and light. In my humble opinion.

[Finefeather]

It seems pointless to me to attempt any explanation of this process in view of the fact that we are all in different states of awareness. I was giving you my opinion based on 40 years of OB rescue work I have been involved in. This work involves both the living and the 'dead' and I have helped people who have died literally minutes after the event. In all variants of this experience I have had, I have seen and being in the presence of the higher self of the person involved and in all cases this takes the form of a most beautiful white light which draws the person to a place of knowing and comfort.

Agreed, some even higher than yours.
But whos to say whos where and who knows what?
Seems like a giant generalization to me.
I could spit out my credentials also,
but I have no desire to seem any more credible.

This trap system goes all the way up to the top my friend,
there are evolved beings that are VERY highly evolved in this system,
that still do not see it for what it truly is.
They are lost in the illusion just as much as lower beings.
Just because there are layers, doesn't mean it isn't a trap.

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....
Hi dpwishy
Try not to fall off your horse as you race to all your assumptions...I was not giving you credentials...I was giving you perspective...and my opinion based on it.
I have heard your argument and view many times in life, as well as here on this forum, and you will continue with your thinking until you see another side of the story...if you do...in this life...I accept that...such is the nature of consciousness...but when we cease to seek out truth...that is when stagnation causes the ego to invent it's own reality based on it's own assumptions.
You also make the biggest error when you assume that...and I quote you... "there are evolved beings that are VERY highly evolved in this system, that still do not see it for what it truly is."...did they tell you this?...and if not...how would you know what a highly advanced Being knows? I would suggest to you that the illusion lies within yourself and certainly not with them. Your entire post is in my opinion an assumption based on your own lack of knowledge and first hand experience...together with all the many stories you have read by those who have the same point of view as you do...at this point in your life...does that make it right?
Take care
Ray

I

[dpwishy]

It seems pointless to me to attempt any explanation of this process in view of the fact that we are all in different states of awareness. I was giving you my opinion based on 40 years of OB rescue work I have been involved in. This work involves both the living and the 'dead' and I have helped people who have died literally minutes after the event. In all variants of this experience I have had, I have seen and being in the presence of the higher self of the person involved and in all cases this takes the form of a most beautiful white light which draws the person to a place of knowing and comfort.

Agreed, some even higher than yours.
But whos to say whos where and who knows what?
Seems like a giant generalization to me.
I could spit out my credentials also,
but I have no desire to seem any more credible.

This trap system goes all the way up to the top my friend,
there are evolved beings that are VERY highly evolved in this system,
that still do not see it for what it truly is.
They are lost in the illusion just as much as lower beings.
Just because there are layers, doesn't mean it isn't a trap.

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

I would suggest to you that the illusion lies within yourself and certainly not with them. Your entire post is in my opinion an assumption based on your own lack of knowledge and first hand experience...together with all the many stories you have read by those who have the same point of view as you do...at this point in your life...does that make it right?
Take care
Ray

I

And I make the assumptions?
:)

Blessing and light

[Joe Akulis]

Starting to wonder about the original intent of this post. Was it mainly just to lay down a warning to everyone? Because the way it was worded made me think that it was a legitimate search for truth. Perhaps those of us trying to provide some insights are all making a bad assumption then.

[Demeisen]

Thank you everyone for the replies. It's been lot's of different point of views already here.
My original post was made entirely for research purposes. I apologize if it seemed otherwise. This is the question that I have been wondering myself quite a while now. I've been feeling I'm stuck with my own assumptions and I wanted to broaden my perspective. I hope this discussion serves the same purpose for others too.

I have some further inquiries concerning the afterlife. What do you think that would happen if person dies with severe disease? Like mental illness or cancer etc.? I have read somewhere (many sources) that diseases start in energy body and then materialize into physical body. So when physical body dies, does the original disease remain and do we need some external healing & mending?

[Camilo]

I resonate to the information that says we are here to find out (remember) who we are = spirit/god, and once we achieve this, the universe presents other possibilities for us to explore. But it helps to at least try and have some fun in the process.

[Borden]

There is an irony for me in people giving advice based not on their own experience but on the writings and teachings of others.

Perhaps the 'light' is an insectocutor. Zap! 'You failed the credulity test required to warrant further incarnation ... back to the ocean of unconsciousness for those who failed to honour evolution and progression!'

Lore, tradition, teaching and doctrine are irrelevant to your own, personal experience of a universe in which only you will ever have the experience of being you. Whatever you do when you die, do you really want it to be based on what someone else told you to do?

[observer]

[....snip]

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

Allow me to interject a brief historic observation into this debate.

Two thousand years after the death of the one alleged to be called Jesus, in 1945, there was unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt a library of fifty some Gospels and other assorted text. This library was written around the turn of the Common Era. This Library was unmolested, buried in the desert for nearly two thousand years.

These Text tell a completely different story than the book known as the New Testament. They tell of a man who was crucified by the Roman Empire. They describe a man who was not someone claiming to be the Son of God, rather someone telling Humanity that we are all a Part of God. His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

According to these Nag Hammadi Text, Yahweh (Jehovah) is the representation of the Dark Force. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of Jehovah being a trap, that there were Archons who were part of this trap, and most important, how to avoid this trap.

Now, two thousand years later we find-out the whole Holy Bible Mythology is one big lie, cleverly concealed in a book with a whole lot of Truth.

This little view of our history is a textbook example of how the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

Now....

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm

[lookbeyond]

[....snip]

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

Allow me to interject a brief historic observation into this debate.

Two thousand years after the death of the one alleged to be called Jesus, in 1945, there was unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt a library of fifty some Gospels and other assorted text. This library was written around the turn of the Common Era. This Library was unmolested, buried in the desert for nearly two thousand years.

These Text tell a completely different story than the book known as the New Testament. They tell of a man who was crucified by the Roman Empire. They describe a man who was not someone claiming to be the Son of God, rather someone telling Humanity that we are all a Part of God. His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

According to these Nag Hammadi Text, Yahweh (Jehovah) is the representation of the Dark Force. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of Jehovah being a trap, that there were Archons who were part of this trap, and most important, how to avoid this trap.

Now, two thousand years later we find-out the whole Holy Bible Mythology is one big lie, cleverly concealed in a book with a whole lot of Truth.

This little view of our history is a textbook example of how the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

Now....

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm

Hi Observer, in re to those who have had NDE and come back in awe and reverence of this experience, are you able to explain(for arguements sake) how their blissful feelings can be as a result of supposed deceit, i am going to spend some time on the Nag Hammadi library,but it would be good to keep this thread going if possible,

Thanks lookbeyond

[Craig]

It was the idea of UFO's that got me going on whatever meandering path I am currently staggering including coming to Avalon but it took the unexpected passing of my father 10 years ago this Friday to now realise this is where my interest lies, but the more I read about it, the less I know and the less I can recall later, it is like I am crossing this memory wiping veil again. I wish I could read more without forgetting, or getting headaches and loss of focus, all ideas seem to have their own merit but I can't recall why a few hours later, but the one thing that does burn my bridges so to speak is this memory wipe upon birth - I have trouble seeing the point, if there were lessons to be learnt\relearnt should the world be improving over time? Why do I sense an underlying level of evil that seems to be insurmountable? Why does society chase the material continually over the spiritual without waking up? I am caught in the cogs of life so i can keep myself and family surviving but what am i learning?

anyway, thanks guys for allowing this vent\rant

[Demeisen]

Lore, tradition, teaching and doctrine are irrelevant to your own, personal experience of a universe in which only you will ever have the experience of being you. Whatever you do when you die, do you really want it to be based on what someone else told you to do?

I think everything we do, say or experience represents our own belief systems in a way or another.
I definitely don't want to do anything based on what I have been told to do. But rather what I feel right to do. That's the best I can do.

[Maunagarjana]

The light is what strips you of your memories and experiences and tosses you back into the cycle of reincarnation. Enlightenment is knowing not to go into the light.Your life should be a preparation for death. You should be preparing and practicing for that one moment, that way at the moment of death you can keep your awareness and not drift off into a "sleep". This is why meditation and astral projection is so important! They are preparations to be able to keep your consciousness at the moment of death.If you can stay conscious here, the first thing you should ask for without hesitation is to ask to experience your "true self". Program yourself so that this is the first thought and only thought that goes through your mind. Don't be distracted by the realization of death, by the astonishment, beauty and so forth. Your only desire and demand should be to experience the true self.

I'll have to remember that.....ask to experience my true self. I would not have thought to do that. And see, that's how we're at somewhat of a disadvantage. We don't know the rules of this "game" that we're in, and so we have to figure it out, partly by trial and error, partly by listening to those seekers who came before us (scrutinizing, of course, for ways that what has come down to us could be further deceptions), and partly by dumbly stumbling ourselves onto things that happen to work.


You are fragmented over many realities, countless. You interact with them to some capacity wen you sleep, this should be familiar to you at some level. You should be able to have a free connection to these other parts of you. You are jailed off locked into this reality made to believe this is what you truly are. Some how we did this to ourselves. We were tricked in a sense to try a new experience not knowing that the experience would keep us trapped here over and over.

This is one of the things I wonder about. Were we *really* tricked? Or is this more of a reflection of how we feel here being in the position we are in. What I wonder about is, if before we came into this cyclic existence, we were beings who knew who we were, who had abilities far beyond what we could conceive now, so how could we possibly be tricked? This level of reality (so to speak) is a realm of illusion, where very little is what it seems and deception runs rampant, but outside of this realm, I have have to wonder if there is any such thing as deception. Many people speak of their extraordinary spiritual experiences where they have memories where things are known to them as soon as they even formulate a question to ask. So, how could we be tricked? Maybe we knew *exactly* what we were getting into. Which, in a way, is an even more disturbing thought. It is said that there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity, right?

Maybe before we came here, we were the spiritual daredevils of the higher realms, and this time we just got a wee bit more than we bargained for. And maybe we suspected that would happen, but didn't care. Just a thought. But perhaps because we can't see the whole picture, it looks much more harrowing than it is, and perhaps this idea of being "tricked" is a reflection of a victim mentality generated belief that could in some ways be a hindrance, but could in some ways be advantageous - even if it were not entirely true! Think of it as maybe an improving myth. Personally, I tend towards the view that we were not tricked, but that's just what I choose to believe.


You are put in a place where its nearly IMPOSSIBLE to learn what you need to learn within a single life to get "out".

It's funny, when I read this, I immediately thought of a video game I've been playing where I have to question if the level I'm on is actually winnable. I think everyone who plays video games knows that feeling. Like, "WTF, are the designers of this game just trolling us???" But then you do it enough times and "get in the zone" and against all odds, manage to - just by a hair - complete the level or mission. Whew! Wasn't so bad. So, I suppose it could be a matter of perspective, especially when considering that we are eternal divine beings who have eternity to play around in and get stuck in places like Earth, for better or worse.


When you die, everything you have learned is scrubbed clean. Does this sound like a system that is designed for your progression and evolution?

I suppose this is where the video game analogy becomes a bit strained, because at least with a video game you can get the hang of it and retain what you learn from one attempt to the next. However, there are many people who say there *are* ways to know your past lives. From past life regression, to even OBE's, and many other ways. I just read a part of a William Buhlman book where he asked during an OBE to be shown his past life, and he was shown his previous life as a Nazi tank commander. So it's all (arguably) still there, not erased at all, and we just have to know the tricks to be able to access it.


But here is the kicker in my opinion. A secret I don't tell many. This is just a video game. Say that to yourself and remember, "This is just a video game". The population will wake up to that realization soon enough.

I think this could be more or less true, that we (as individual incarnations) are like virtual reality characters in a way that have been deployed into this world for learning purposes, and it's only when we return to wherever the hell we were deployed from that we really see that isn't really who we are, but is really just a thimbleful of our greater being. And oh, the plight of the little virtual reality character who doesn't know it is one. It might begin to feel that there was some type of malicious plot to cause it to be kept in the dark and suffer so terribly, and maybe it would generate a whole belief system based around this feeling.


And in doing so, they will realize that they have the power to play what ever game they choose collectively. They were always choosing which game to play from the very beginning, they were just manipulated in their choosing. They were choosing to pick unconsciously, thus were heavily influenced by outside forces. This is were the technological singularity comes in, technology will advance to a point until we realize that we are that technology and them BAM! I believe our education system, religion systems, political systems, authoritative systems, music, clothing, media, movies, radio, invisible frequencies and so forth are all being used to form our mind to make certain choices on auto pilot. It is this that keeps us playing this game unconsciously. Soon enough people will realize that this is a video game, the only rule until the technological singularity being you have to forget you are playing to play. And in doing so, we will choose consciously what to play together.

I share your distrust of the transhumanist techno-fetishism and see it as a dead end. Perhaps one that could be recovered from once entered, but not without great effort. And who knows, it could be possible that such past existential tangents in other forms are what has resulted in us being here in the state we are in. And maybe those higher beings out there (assuming they are out there - or care) are looking at down at us wondering if we are going to fall into every single pitfall possible along our path.


I'd like to add one more thing. About ten years ago I was taken from my body and I had an experience with the creator source. I saw the whole shape of the realities and dimensions, they looked like dna spirals that made up this weird X that rotated around its middle axis. It had this spin to it. I was sucked into a very tiny section of this. When I broke through to its dimension, the membrane was orange from the outside and only blinding white light after I broke through. I heard a voice telling me that I was not alone and that it loved me. I asked who it was and it said it was "God". I couldn't see anything only hear it and knew its presence was there. An amazing presence, that was undeniable. The light was so blinding and warm. I told it i did not believe in God and it told me it could "touch me", it could prove it. Without time to process what it said something went through my soul that just knew this was the creator. The most pure love I have ever felt. It honestly hurt to feel it, I felt it only for a second and it was gone. If I felt it for any longer it would have destroyed me, it was so powerful. I have been in love with girls, I love my parents, my family. But I realized at that moment I have never felt true love before. It changed my life forever and was the kick start I needed for my remembering. I came back to my body crying for an hour repeating "I'm sorry I didn't believe you".

Thanks for that, that's fascinating story. And I do know the feeling. I have felt what I thought to be the presence of "God" before, though it was on magic mushrooms, so it's easy for people to diminish my experience as some sort of hallucination. But in that experience I felt the most incredible boundless love I have ever felt, possibly to this day. Unconditional love, despite all of the ways I felt I fell short of deserving such love, which goes beyond what even another human being could show. It does leave an impression on you.


The reason I share this is because I broke through an orange membrane and came into the blinding light. I did not follow and go into the light. Those are two different things all together! That is important to realize.

One thought I have had is that there is the natural reincarnational cycle that is part of a natural system of soul improvement, and then there could be an artificial overlay that has sort of tampered with that cycle and made it a....shall we say, a *vicious* cycle. It could be some form of transdimensional technology that, once activated, is very difficult to disable. And perhaps this is actually allowed by the source creator because, while it seems like unspeakably foul play, could possibly end up exponentially increasing our souls evolution beyond what is usual. But what I do wonder is whether or not this state of affairs has an expiration date. I know, we can't really count on that, but supposing, as some sources have said (the Law of One books come to mind) that there is a predetermined end to the cycle, regardless of how the reincarnational cycle has been hacked or hijacked. Or perhaps that is just more "cosmic disinformation". I suppose only time will tell on that account.

[heyokah]

[....snip]

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

Allow me to interject a brief historic observation into this debate.

Two thousand years after the death of the one alleged to be called Jesus, in 1945, there was unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt a library of fifty some Gospels and other assorted text. This library was written around the turn of the Common Era. This Library was unmolested, buried in the desert for nearly two thousand years.

These Text tell a completely different story than the book known as the New Testament. They tell of a man who was crucified by the Roman Empire. They describe a man who was not someone claiming to be the Son of God, rather someone telling Humanity that we are all a Part of God. His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

According to these Nag Hammadi Text, Yahweh (Jehovah) is the representation of the Dark Force. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of Jehovah being a trap, that there were Archons who were part of this trap, and most important, how to avoid this trap.

Now, two thousand years later we find-out the whole Holy Bible Mythology is one big lie, cleverly concealed in a book with a whole lot of Truth.

This little view of our history is a textbook example of how the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

Now....

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm

Hi Observer, in re to those who have had NDE and come back in awe and reverence of this experience, are you able to explain(for arguements sake) how their blissful feelings can be as a result of supposed deceit, i am going to spend some time on the Nag Hammadi library,but it would be good to keep this thread going if possible,

Thanks lookbeyond

Hi look beyond,
An interesting question.

In 1971 ( 24 and mother of a one-year-old daughter) I was in a coma for 3 weeks. I saw 'Hell', as an observer, experienced a peaceful stay in a cave, with a view of a sunny sky from the entrance and a stay with 'Light Beings', with whom I communicated telepathically.
In those last two places I felt free and peaceful, nothing more or less.
I 'was told to go back', because "there was still a lot to do for me in this earthly existence".

Was this a NDE? Specialists told me it were images of my brain, as I had been suffering from an inflammation of my brain caused by virus.
I was confused, it 'changed my life' and my 'Search' began....
I can still see the whole 'picture' before me and it has stayed with me my whole life without changing. (I'm 66 now).

There was no feeling of bliss, just silence and peace of mind, as in meditation. And yes, I would have liked to stay there and felt very ashamed to admit that when I was "back", because I had a happy marriage and a lovely little daughter....

I can go back to that 'cave' whenever I want, often by using Drunvalo Melchizedek's "Living in the Heart" method.

I'm posting hereby a quote from a site about near-death experiences.


There are several theories to explain how coming close to death can give rise to near-death experiences. Lack of oxygen is often implicated, although many near-death experiences occur when people are not deprived of oxygen, as in falls from mountains, during suicide attempts by jumping from heights, or after accidents. In such situations, however, the production and actions of various hormones and neurotransmitters may be affected. There are theories based on stimulation of receptors in nerve cell membranes called NMDA receptors, on the effects of the neurotransmitter serotonin, and on the level of endorphins (the brain's own morphine-like chemicals). Endorphins are known to produce positive emotions and reduction of pain, and may be responsible for the blissful feelings in the midst of pain and fear. Disruption of the brain's neurotransmitters can produce random or excessive firing of neurons and this, depending on where it occurs, may produce the other experiences. For example, electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe of the cerebral hemispheres can produce life reviews and sensations of floating or flying, while random firing in the parts of the visual cortex (which also occurs with drugs such as LSD) causes the perception of lights, tunnels, and spirals.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/near-death-experience#ixzz2TLdhj6ub

This was just MY experience and it doesn't prove or explain anything :)

[greybeard]

This might be helpful.

Proof Of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey Into The Afterlife with Dr. Eben Alexander III

"Proof Of Heaven is Dr. Eben Alexander III's #1 New York Times Bestselling book about his near-death experience. A Harvard and Duke associated academic neurosurgeon, Dr. Eben Alexander's brain was suddenly attacked by a rare illness. In fact, it was the part of the brain that essentially makes us human, thereby making his near-death experience much more compelling to scientists and skeptics because his brain was incapable of imagination or hallucination. For seven days he lay in a coma while journeying into the afterlife. Guided by a spiritual being yet having no memory of his physical (human) existence, Eben learned about life after death, our purpose for being here, the power of prayer, insights about why evil is allowed to exist in our world, and so much more. I'm honored to share this in-depth interview with one of the most likable and eloquent scientists of our time." ~ Bob Olson, Afterlife TV http://www.afterlifetv.com





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSb3G53HsA

[observer]

[....snip]

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

Allow me to interject a brief historic observation into this debate.

Two thousand years after the death of the one alleged to be called Jesus, in 1945, there was unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt a library of fifty some Gospels and other assorted text. This library was written around the turn of the Common Era. This Library was unmolested, buried in the desert for nearly two thousand years.

These Text tell a completely different story than the book known as the New Testament. They tell of a man who was crucified by the Roman Empire. They describe a man who was not someone claiming to be the Son of God, rather someone telling Humanity that we are all a Part of God. His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

According to these Nag Hammadi Text, Yahweh (Jehovah) is the representation of the Dark Force. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of Jehovah being a trap, that there were Archons who were part of this trap, and most important, how to avoid this trap.

Now, two thousand years later we find-out the whole Holy Bible Mythology is one big lie, cleverly concealed in a book with a whole lot of Truth.

This little view of our history is a textbook example of how the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

Now....

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm


The evidence will show, moving into the White Light is taking one's spirit into the high technology apparatus installed on the Moon. There are many researchers who have independently discovered a five mile high antenna on the Moon. John Lear and Richard Hoagland are two that come to mind who have mentioned NASA photographs of this antenna.

There are also several whistle blowers who have come forward who talk about the telepathic thought implant apparatus the black-ops wing of the secret global government have been using against the Masses since the end of the Second World War. This is technology from antiquity which has been used against the Masses since the Dawn of Man, controlled by an hyperdimensional species. They are very clever at what they do, and this technology is now in the hands of the Global Elite. The evidence is clear on what I'm reporting. All one need do is the research.

Following the Golden Light of Love, on the other hand, takes one directly into the singularity that is our Sun. This is the doorway into another dimension.

Theoretical science tells us there are the mathematic possibilities for at least ten other dimensions. Ancient religious theology tells us there are 12 Heavens. This similarity is no coincidence. Understanding both are pointing at the same concept is only a matter of understanding that semantics is involved in naming these similar concepts. It is increasingly understood that a singularity (black hole) is the opening to a wormhole.

Going into the White Light is a direct trip into the Soul Trap that is harvesting and consuming Soul-Essence. This has been an operation on the Moon since the Dawn of Man.

Going into the Golden Light is a direct trip out of this Prison Universe.

Research the evidence and draw your own conclusions.


Research Resources:

Dr. Barrie Trower -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdB-tbzJSrk&list=PL0B83B0D0497E84C6&index=1
(Pay attention at about 11 minutes into the video)

Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlttdaFBKA&list=PL0B83B0D0497E84C6

John Lear Disclosure -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTRFhrAr8us


The 'Grays' of which John Lear speaks are one-in-the-same as the Archons which were spoken of by the Nazarene Essenes (Yeshua ben Joseph)

[SlickWillie]

"Going into the White Light is a direct trip into the Soul Trap that is harvesting and consuming Soul-Essence. This has been an operation on the Moon since the Dawn of Man."

What is the purpose of this?

"Going into the Golden Light is a direct trip out of this Prison Universe."

What is outside the "prison universe"?

[observer]

"Going into the White Light is a direct trip into the Soul Trap that is harvesting and consuming Soul-Essence. This has been an operation on the Moon since the Dawn of Man."

What is the purpose of this?

"Going into the Golden Light is a direct trip out of this Prison Universe."

What is outside the "prison universe"?

This Particular Reality is a feeding operation, SlickWillie.

This Soul Harvesting Antenna has been on the Moon since Man first arrived, here on this planet. Understanding the process of birth-death-rebirth with little or no recollection of your former lifetime is all part of the harvesting operation. The essence of your Soul-Stuff is consumed and only a seed of your former self is replanted into another body to grow another crop. This process leads to the a$$-biting loops of endless lifetimes.

Very few who have had the where-with-all to make it out of this loop have ever returned to tell the story of how one escapes. The few who were able and did return, have had their stories manipulated into lies.

The astral plane (or, the quantum field of infinite potential) is patrolled by Archons who can appear in any form they desire. There is no objective evidence to conclude any astral experience was not manipulated. Faith-based testimonies are not evidence.

This harvesting operation is the only explanation that makes any sense, if one follows all the abstract trails of evidence.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. The evidence ALL points to this conclusion. Answer "why" to the reason Humanity has been continuously lied to.

As to what lies beyond This Particular Reality, all I can say is: something else.

[Bongo]

Getting trapped after death can happen and this is how you get out, its called holographic kinetics.

http://www.holographickinetics.net/default.html

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38458-Dreamtime-Healing-Using-Holographic-Kinetics&highlight=holographic+kinetics

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?55608-D-Day-Company-Interview-Steve-Richards-Founder-and-Creator-of-Holographic-Kinetics&highlight=holographic+kinetics

I have just recently had a HK session and found out that my spirit has been enslaved for a very long time, what was happening was that I was getting delivered back to my captors after death, (I don't know if there was a white light or not but that does not matter, the fact that I was delivered back to them is enough at least for me to know that this actually CAN happen) at times I was ritualistically murdered as a child by humans that had been taken over by these aliens. when my captors got removed my spirit said "I feel like a puppet without the strings" This was then healed and I am no longer enslaved by these aliens that are the SCUM of the universe.

I know for a fact that I am not the only one on this planet that has had this happen to them. Its time for us as a race to get healed so we are no longer under any kind of influence by anyone.

[Wind]

Maybe we knew *exactly* what we were getting into. Which, in a way, is an even more disturbing thought. It is said that there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity, right?

I couldn't have said it better myself and I wholeheartedly agree with your message. :)

[lookbeyond]

Ok,thanks observer, so are visions all manipulations, what about those prior to WW11.How is my vision which was not at all a classic christian one
made to appear to me? Are we all implanted so that when we pray some of us are answered with a vision?Who am i really praying to anyway!!?? (sorry...going a little crazy here as the rest of my world crumbles away)

[dpwishy]

Maunagarjana you have such a beautiful mind,
I felt the need to say that.
Your replies were brilliant and sent me for a few loops.
I thank you for taking the time to say such thoughtful responses.

Don't ever distrust your experience.
You know very well what you experienced.
The tool you used doesn't discredit it at all.
I am a shaman and know how you feel 100%.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

[heyokah]

This Soul Harvesting Antenna has been on the Moon since Man first arrived, here on this planet. Understanding the process of birth-death-rebirth with little or no recollection of your former lifetime is all part of the harvesting operation. The essence of your Soul-Stuff is consumed and only a seed of your former self is replanted into another body to grow another crop. This process leads to the a$$-biting loops of endless lifetimes.

Very few who have had the where-with-all to make it out of this loop have ever returned to tell the story of how one escapes. The few who were able and did return, have had their stories manipulated into lies.

The astral plane (or, the quantum field of infinite potential) is patrolled by Archons who can appear in any form they desire. There is no objective evidence to conclude any astral experience was not manipulated. Faith-based testimonies are not evidence.

This harvesting operation is the only explanation that makes any sense, if one follows all the abstract trails of evidence.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. The evidence ALL points to this conclusion. Answer "why" to the reason Humanity has been continuously lied to.

As to what lies beyond This Particular Reality, all I can say is: something else.

I'd like to add this.
Seems there is going on something we are not aware of.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_li5XJimk

[DNA]

[....snip]

I know the light you talk of but I argue it is not the same as the light construct that appears after death. This can be by passed and should. This is what gives us amnesia of our experiences. If a God truly wanted us to grow and learn from our experiences, why would they give us such an amazingly short period in a body in which its almost nearly impossible to ever free yourself or learn what we need to in one life to move on. Then, even if we get 98% of the way there in a life, when we die we forget everything. You really think this is the creation of the Source of Love? How loving....

Allow me to interject a brief historic observation into this debate.

Two thousand years after the death of the one alleged to be called Jesus, in 1945, there was unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt a library of fifty some Gospels and other assorted text. This library was written around the turn of the Common Era. This Library was unmolested, buried in the desert for nearly two thousand years.

These Text tell a completely different story than the book known as the New Testament. They tell of a man who was crucified by the Roman Empire. They describe a man who was not someone claiming to be the Son of God, rather someone telling Humanity that we are all a Part of God. His name was Yeshua ben Joseph.

According to these Nag Hammadi Text, Yahweh (Jehovah) is the representation of the Dark Force. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of Jehovah being a trap, that there were Archons who were part of this trap, and most important, how to avoid this trap.

Now, two thousand years later we find-out the whole Holy Bible Mythology is one big lie, cleverly concealed in a book with a whole lot of Truth.

This little view of our history is a textbook example of how the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

Now....

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm

I hear what you are saying. But no where did I read that the Gnostics regarded the tunnel of light as a trap.
I understand what you are saying in terms of Yehwah being Yaldaboath the blind idiot God, but for me, this was more of a metaphor as to how culturally practiced religion is a trap, and that the only way to know God is to know God personally, through introspection and individual experience.
What this says to me is that God is a very real thing, a very real thing that is capable of being experienced by those who spend the time to make the personal journey.
How Yaldaboath and the Archons feed, is ussually inflicted through dogma, and faith.
The gnostic gospels dispel the myth of faith and are predicated on personal knowledge through experience and knowing God.

[observer]

Thank you DNA,

The observation regarding the white light being a trap didn't come from the Gnostic Gospels, it came from a synopsis of the evidence currently available - all such evidence not available to the Nazarene Essenes (Gnostic Christians - the ones the Roman Empire eliminated from the planet).

Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of another God. He referred to that God as, "my father in heaven". In John 8:44, one of the rare places in the New Testament where Yeshua's actual words were reported, he denounces Jehovah as the Devil:

When speaking to the high priests in the temple, Mathew 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Much of what we have learned in the two thousand years since the Gnostic Christians walked the planet comes from a greater understanding of high technology - just such technology which has been used against the Mass of Humanity since the Dawn of Man.


Author C, Clark - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[observer]

Ok,thanks observer, so are visions all manipulations, what about those prior to WW11.How is my vision which was not at all a classic christian one
made to appear to me? Are we all implanted so that when we pray some of us are answered with a vision?Who am i really praying to anyway!!?? (sorry...going a little crazy here as the rest of my world crumbles away)

This telepathic thought implanting apparatus has been accessed by the Global Elite since World War II. It is the same technology that has been used since the Dawn of Man by an hyperdimensional species.

World War II was a great technological leap for the New World Order. The same dynasties that placed the Nazis into power now run the global banking network. They always have....

[lookbeyond]

Ok,thanks observer, so are visions all manipulations, what about those prior to WW11.How is my vision which was not at all a classic christian one
made to appear to me? Are we all implanted so that when we pray some of us are answered with a vision?Who am i really praying to anyway!!?? (sorry...going a little crazy here as the rest of my world crumbles away)

This telepathic thought implanting apparatus has been accessed by the Global Elite since World War II. It is the same technology that has been used since the Dawn of Man by an hyperdimensional species.

World War II was a great technological leap for the New World Order. The same dynasties that placed the Nazis into power now run the global banking network. They always have....

Thanks observer, to clarify, are you saying that visions in response to prayer are of "non spiritual" origin ie visual manipulations from either hyperdimensional species or global elite.
If so- how do they know who to target?

Thanks lookbeyond

[DNA]

I personally believe the white light IS part of the trap. There is entirely too much evidence to draw one to this conclusion.

If it were my choice, I would search for the GOLDEN LIGHT. Gold is the color of LOVE.

Research Reference:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/nag_hammadi/contents.htm


I find it interesting that you state a color indication may offer clues as to wether a portal presented after death is legitimate or not. I don't think that is the case, but just for the record, I have an experience I"ve shared where I was witness to a departed individual who crossed over and the light filling the room seemingly spilling over from the portal opening was pinkish in color.
It can be found here. How To See A Ghost For Your Self (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Your-Self)

For the record, I'm aware of some of the literature where this soul catcher on the moon is discussed.
Rayellan Alan talks about it here In search of the Soul catcher (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/01archives/Soul_Catcher_Moon.htm)
There is quite a bit of remote viewing involved, and I don't know if I've ever considered myself a believer in RV.

Alien Interview by Lawrence Spencer (http://www.exopoliticshongkong.com/uploa...erview.pdf)has been responsible for folks including John Lear to jump on this band wagon, but the book has been proven to be a fraud, a work of fiction by Lawrence Spencer, this was found so by our very own Bill Ryan and Graham Hancock. This can be read in a thread here on Avalon By Bill Ryan which can be found here HOAX: Lawrence Spencer's 'ALIEN INTERVIEW' (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?6865-HOAX-Lawrence-Spencer-s-ALIEN-INTERVIEW)

[greybeard]

Yes but!!!!
What exactly leaves the body and crosses over into ?
If we are to believe a multitude of mystics, god is going home to God.
Part of consciousness evolving to know itself---remember.
If Eckhart Tolle and other modern and ancient sages are to be believed--- there is only one conciousness.
If recent scientific findings are true--there is no separation its a unified field.
Tolle said that "You are the field in which everything arises"

Nasargagadatta said "Ask what were you before you were born?"
Ramana said "You existed before all universes came into being and will exist after all universes dissolve"

Now assuming these sages are right--what exactly can be captured imprisoned by something more powerful separate?
Is there any thing separate?
Is there anything more powerful that you in the enlightened state?
Are you God in disguise?---thats what the sages say.
When full realisation happens the sages testify---- "I am the totality all of it"

Think carefully before you decide there is something out there waiting to get you.
For me the evidence says otherwise.
Yes in the dream state possibly
Yet you are the dreamer.

Chris

[Rich]

Personally I wouldn't worry about it, whatever the attitude is now, is going to be what it is when we leave at least that's my logic.

[Maunagarjana]

Thank you DNA,

The observation regarding the white light being a trap didn't come from the Gnostic Gospels, it came from a synopsis of the evidence currently available - all such evidence not available to the Nazarene Essenes (Gnostic Christians - the ones the Roman Empire eliminated from the planet).

Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of another God. He referred to that God as, "my father in heaven". In John 8:44, one of the rare places in the New Testament where Yeshua's actual words were reported, he denounces Jehovah as the Devil:

When speaking to the high priests in the temple, Mathew 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Much of what we have learned in the two thousand years since the Gnostic Christians walked the planet comes from a greater understanding of high technology - just such technology which has been used against the Mass of Humanity since the Dawn of Man.


Author C, Clark - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."


You're right, Jesus never says "Yahweh/YHVH", he often uses the Aramaic word "Abba" meaning Father.

Yahweh, as depicted in the OT, acts and speaks like a tyrannical alien overlord who lacks compassion and wisdom and who doesn't come close to resembling the real nature of the creator.

[heyokah]

Yes but!!!!
What exactly leaves the body and crosses over into ?
If we are to believe a multitude of mystics, god is going home to God.
Part of consciousness evolving to know itself---remember.
If Eckhart Tolle and other modern and ancient sages are to be believed--- there is only one conciousness.
If recent scientific findings are true--there is no separation  its a unified field.
Tolle said that "You are the field in which everything arises"

Nasargagadatta said "Ask what were you before you were born?"
Ramana said "You existed before all universes came into being and will exist after all universes dissolve"


Now assuming these sages are right--what exactly can be captured imprisoned by something more powerful separate?
Is there any thing separate?
Is there anything more powerful that you in the enlightened state?
Are you God in disguise?---thats what the sages say.
When full realisation happens the sages testify---- "I am the totality all of it"

Think carefully before you decide there is something out there waiting to get you.
For me the evidence says otherwise.
Yes in the dream state possibly
Yet you are the dreamer.

Chris


Yes Chris, maybe this is how it originally was, or how it was meant to be..... Paradise???

Perhaps, for some 'fully realized' human beings, it still is working this way.
But the masses are under a "spell",  so they are victims of manipulation. 
They are trapped in that cycle of reincarnation, forgetting their former lives, in which they "would have learned" something.

WHO told them 'they had to learn' something? 
WHO set up this loop of coming back, life after life? Forgetting and forgetting..... 
That was NOT GOD, The Father, the Ultimate Creator, the One Consciousness !
This is not how it was meant to be.

" There is something rotten in the state of Denmark", like Shakespeare said.  
That's for sure.




 

[greybeard]

Hi heyoka
I agree that its not exactly ideal at the moment--- however yes childhood conditioning has a lot to answer for.
People through fear or badness very often have to control.
Free will has that downside.

I was one of the lucky one I rebelled against religion about the age of 4.
My parents took me to catholic church I lasted about 5 minutes-- then it was "Im out of here."

The cross the bleeding heart--- no way.

So I have never felt controlled restricted in any way apart from what you might call society idea of appropriate behaviour, most of which makes sense and im ok with.
The fear of what may come after death is down to the very belief in conditioning that people are warning off.
I honestly believe that there is nothing to fear after death--- any other thought is just a thought.
Yes thoughts are powerful but they can be changed.
Fear not.
Love or fear you can choose.

Chris

[Rich]

I read that when we pass over and are somewhat close to enlightenment/freedom
our guru will identify as us and together undo our remaining thoughts (concepts)
and thereby we attain enlightenment at the time of our physical death.

This exact same thing from both Christ (in the Christ letters which have been
channeled after Lester was long gone) and Lester Levenson (actually an audio of Lester).

[Prodigal Son]

Thank you DNA,

The observation regarding the white light being a trap didn't come from the Gnostic Gospels, it came from a synopsis of the evidence currently available - all such evidence not available to the Nazarene Essenes (Gnostic Christians - the ones the Roman Empire eliminated from the planet).

Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of another God. He referred to that God as, "my father in heaven". In John 8:44, one of the rare places in the New Testament where Yeshua's actual words were reported, he denounces Jehovah as the Devil:

When speaking to the high priests in the temple, Mathew 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

That's a great scripture, and you and I and the Gnostics could see what it was saying, but it doesn't actually name Jehovah as their father. Fundies can easily dance around this one by saying that they were "secretly" from the Devil. A straightforward reading says it's very obvious that Jesus is talking about the warmongering desert god YHWH, who was the father that they prayed to and worshipped. But that would never compute to an Orthodox Christian.

These scriptures however, leave no wiggle room for interpretations, that is, before they were redacted by the Revisionists. They had the audacity to publish this nonsense:

Luke 9:54-56

New International Version (©2011)

When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them. Then he and his disciples went to another village.

You can click on the links to see several different versions. The King James and similarly older versions contain the whole text, whereas the redacted ones are grammatically incorrect and ridiculously lacking in context and details.

I have bolded the redacted words:
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Luke 9:54 (http://biblehub.com/luke/9-54.htm)

And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55 (http://biblehub.com/luke/9-55.htm)

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luke 9:56 (http://biblehub.com/luke/9-56.htm)

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

There you have it. It doesn't name Jehovah, but it names his prophet Elias (Elijah) as having an evil manner of spirit and that his god was into destroying men's lives and not saving them. Guilt by association.

Back to topic :pop2:

[heyokah]

Hi heyoka
I agree that its not exactly ideal at the moment--- however yes childhood conditioning has a lot to answer for.
People through fear or badness very often have to control.
Free will has that downside.

I was one of the lucky one I rebelled against religion about the age of 4.
My parents took me to catholic church I lasted about 5 minutes-- then it was "Im out of here."

The cross the bleeding heart--- no way.

So I have never felt controlled restricted in any way apart from what you might call society idea of appropriate behaviour, most of which makes sense and im ok with.
The fear of what may come after death is down to the very belief in conditioning that people are warning off.
I honestly believe that there is nothing to fear after death--- any other thought is just a thought.
Yes thoughts are powerful but they can be changed.
Fear not.
Love or fear you can choose.

Chris

Dear greybeard, 

Many of us think (or hope) rebelling against religion, education or any other human programming, and having a positive attitude towards life and death, will secure them of a free ticket to a beautiful "what may come after death", 
OK, but this will still not be enough to free them from the Wheel of Karma.

There seems to be another force in charge over humanity's fate....

[greybeard]

Hi heyoka
I agree that its not exactly ideal at the moment--- however yes childhood conditioning has a lot to answer for.
People through fear or badness very often have to control.
Free will has that downside.

I was one of the lucky one I rebelled against religion about the age of 4.
My parents took me to catholic church I lasted about 5 minutes-- then it was "Im out of here."

The cross the bleeding heart--- no way.

So I have never felt controlled restricted in any way apart from what you might call society idea of appropriate behaviour, most of which makes sense and im ok with.
The fear of what may come after death is down to the very belief in conditioning that people are warning off.
I honestly believe that there is nothing to fear after death--- any other thought is just a thought.
Yes thoughts are powerful but they can be changed.
Fear not.
Love or fear you can choose.

Chris

Dear greybeard, 

Many of us think (or hope) rebelling against religion, education or any other human programming, and just having a positive attitude towards life and death, will secure them of a free ticket to a beautiful "what may come after death", 
OK, but this will still not be enough to free them from the Wheel of Karma.

There seems to be another force in charge over humanity's fate....

Dear heyokah
Of course until one is enlightened then one has to reincarnate.
According to Adyashanti and other current spiritual teachers an increasing number of people are in a non-duality/unity consciousness enlightened state.
The process, the path, is the way it is and has always been---it takes more than one life time for seeming individual consciousness to realise, to remember its true state.
I doubt very much that an external source can prevent this happening.

Its all levels of understanding/spiritual frequency.
An enlightened teacher like Ramana can say to those ready to hear "There was neither creation nor dissolution" God, that is you, dreamed it all.
However that is not helpful to those seemingly caught in the Maya (illusion of duality)
In dream time one story is as invalid as another. The dream is not real but it sure hurts to be in it.
The Buddha teaching was all about freeing you from misery, freeing you from illusion.

Regards Chris

[heyokah]

Hi heyoka
I agree that its not exactly ideal at the moment--- however yes childhood conditioning has a lot to answer for.
People through fear or badness very often have to control.
Free will has that downside.

I was one of the lucky one I rebelled against religion about the age of 4.
My parents took me to catholic church I lasted about 5 minutes-- then it was "Im out of here."

The cross the bleeding heart--- no way.

So I have never felt controlled restricted in any way apart from what you might call society idea of appropriate behaviour, most of which makes sense and im ok with.
The fear of what may come after death is down to the very belief in conditioning that people are warning off.
I honestly believe that there is nothing to fear after death--- any other thought is just a thought.
Yes thoughts are powerful but they can be changed.
Fear not.
Love or fear you can choose.

Chris

Dear greybeard, 

Many of us think (or hope) rebelling against religion, education or any other human programming, and just having a positive attitude towards life and death, will secure them of a free ticket to a beautiful "what may come after death", 
OK, but this will still not be enough to free them from the Wheel of Karma.

There seems to be another force in charge over humanity's fate....

Dear heyokah
Of course until one is enlightened then one has to reincarnate.
According to Adyashanti and other current spiritual teachers an increasing number of people are in a non-duality/unity consciousness enlightened state.
The process, the path, is the way it is and has always been---it takes more than one life time for seeming individual consciousness to realise, to remember its true state.
I doubt very much that an external source can prevent this happening.

Its all levels of understanding/spiritual frequency.
An enlightened teacher like Ramana can say to those ready to hear "There was neither creation nor dissolution" God, that is you, dreamed it all.
However that is not helpful to those seemingly caught in the Maya (illusion of duality)
In dream time one story is as invalid as another. The dream is not real but it sure hurts to be in it.
The Buddha teaching was all about freeing you from misery, freeing you from illusion.

Regards Chris

Hi Chris,

Would you be surprised if I told you that reincarnation is not a Buddhist teaching? 

If you define reincarnation as the transmigration of a soul into a new body after the old body dies, then no, the Buddha did not teach a doctrine of reincarnation. 
For one thing, he taught there was no soul to transmigrate....

However, there is a Buddhist doctrine of rebirth. According to this doctrine, it is the energy or conditioning created by one life that is reborn into another, not a soul. 
Theravada scholar Walpola Rahula wrote, "The person who dies here and is reborn elsewhere is neither the same person, nor another," 

So you don't have to "believe in" rebirth to be a Buddhist. Many Buddhists are agnostic on the matter of rebirth.

Yes, you are right, the Buddha teaching was all about freeing you from misery, freeing you from illusion.

Now, who or what force is creating the illusion? Is it the ignorance of the person itself? 
Or is life actually a hologram. Then the force, that is in control and projecting the hologram, is responsible for the ignorance/misery.
Is the concept of karma and reincarnation perhaps part of the control?


http://buddhism.about.com/od/karmaandrebirth/a/reincarnation.htm


Heyokah, a "Buddhistic yogini with shamanic tendencies" ;-)

[greybeard]

Yes Heyoka at the back of my mind was the knowing that Buddhist teaching was different from the pathless path I find myself on.
Eckhart Tolle said that he does not want to give you the concept that there is reincarnation.
The indian sages like Ramana Maharshi that I followed to begin with---tended to meet people where they stood with their belief system then bit by bit remove their illusion that they were separate from God.
A paradox being that he had no problem with praying to a God even though he knew that he was One without a second.
Its easy to get caught up in the linguistics particularly words like Mind -- No mind, it would seem they both mean the same thing.
I try not to hop from one persuasion to another.
I see it simple---- Only God is. I have to realise THAT.
In my simplicity I cant see a loving God sending himself, in a form that has forgotten, to everlasting hell.

Chris

[donk]

If it's one field and all is one, "reincarnation" doesn't make much sense.

We are all. Who does the separating? You (me, everyone)

Fear of death is the cause of experiencing separation. Or is it the other way around?

Did a being/consciousness, that cannot experience experience physical death, implant that within--for selfish reasons? Is there really "selfish", in an existence within a unified field?

[greybeard]

If it's one field and all is one, "reincarnation" doesn't make much sense.

We are all. Who does the separating? You (me, everyone)

Fear of death is the cause of experiencing separation. Or is it the other way around?

Did a being/consciousness, that cannot experience experience physical death, implant that within--for selfish reasons? Is there really "selfish", in an existence within a unified field?

Hi Donk
The challenge is giving little bits of in formation distilled from years of reading spiritual teachings.
One way of looking at it is this.

God and I dont much like that word, knew everything, but being formless had no experience of all that It knew.

So it became all of us in form without diminishing Itself.
In order for the play of consciousness to be a valid experience the actors on stage had to forget that they were actors.
So we play our part, each player has unique potential. hence free will.
For some its time to remember out true nature and leave this stage with no return performance.
The ancient sages describe it as Indras dream-- and the in breath and out breath of God.
On the out breath everything comes into being and on the in breath everything returns into God.
Scientists have seen that everything is interconnected ---string theory--- all originating coming from One place.
Does that not sound like all is connected on the out breath?
Anyway it has taken years to come to this understanding yet I can not claim that I know.

Chris

[donk]

Nice, well in that case: I'm not ready yet, I'll have to feel out the light when I get there.

I can't distinguish between white & yellow & golden & orange lights too well anyway (I found from staring in setting sun this eve), so I'll have to use my ears or some other sense to figure out which way to go.

I sho' ain't done for a damn sight...ill probably sign me up for another dozen or so lifetime contracts given the chance...I can't wait to see what happens next!

[greybeard]

Hi Donk
you might be ready and not know it.
It doesn’t really matter, for at some point, everyone goes home and the way things are going in this world it may be sooner than we think.
We might all get an upgrade of consciousness.
As far as choosing the colour on death--- I dont think we have a choice the tunnel opens and we automatically go.
The late Dr David Hawkins said that our spiritual vibration. which we have created by our choices in this world, takes us to heaven that we are comfortable with. Jesus said In my Fathers House are many mansions (Heavens)
Regardless we will be just fine.

Chris

[observer]

[....snip]

As far as choosing the color on death--- I don't think we have a choice the tunnel opens and we automatically go.

[....snip]

Chris

I would suggest we do have a choice, Chris. When you see the tunnel of White Light open in front of you, turn around and look for the singularity that is the sun (Golden Light). The White Light is a direct expressway to the Soul Harvesting Apparatus installed on the Moon. That is the reason the light is White.... the Moon is White.

When you do turn around, this is when you will encounter the Archons spoken of in the Nag Hammadi Text - blocking your way.

The Sun is Golden, the color of Love. The sun is the doorway to an hyperdimensional wormhole. It is the way out!!!

This analysis too is the result of a lifetime of studding "information distilled from from years of reading spiritual teachings", and coming to the conclusion - based on the best objective evidence - that the Mass of Humanity is being lied to.

The Moon is a reincarnation trap keeping souls imprisoned here within this three dimensional Living Hell.

[donk]

I was sort of joking, I didn't think there was a choice of tunnels...what I am hoping from bits & pieces I'm picking up from the thread that there is a choice, if you can manage not to be enchanted--whether it's truly the overwhelming beauty of Source or a trap--that's what I meant I will have to feel out once I get there.

As to whether I am ready, again we will see...at the moment I find this existence amazing enough to stick with it as long as possible, and want to see what happens here even longer. I'm flexible though, that bridge can be crossed when i get there...

I think objective evidence shows only one thing beyond doubt: very few things degrade personal experience and empowerment more than the fear of death

[Billy]

When you live life on earth as an example of Love in action, You create your own light. You shine.

Only one question you will ask yourself when you passover, Did i love. You will know the answer.

Do not worry about which light to follow after death. Live a life of love in the moment then the light you follow will be yours.

Shine on, Peace.

Within the many prisms of consciousness and love there are many colours. Violet, Blue, Yellow, gold, white, Etc.

It is very simple.

Which one you create depends on how you lived your life on earth. Now is the time to take responsibility for your choosing,

If there exists a light trap for souls and you follow it after passing, then it is only because you did not do your homework while you had the choice.

Have no fear. read my signature.

Peace

[greybeard]

Hi Observer
I have a respect for your studies and of course you.
I can not say that I am right.
If and only if the likes of Adyashanti are correct then I am the dreamer and every thought I have is part of the dream which seems very real to me.
You have your dream/experience which because you created it is as valid for you as mine is for me.
So we both can be correct and incorrect.
And yes its a holographic universe--- the only thing is I have no way of knowing did God/I am that create this or something else?
I dont see something other than "I am that" creating it.
Yes we have been lied to big time--I have no doubt about that.
Bottom line is I believe enlightened souls who are uniform in what they say for thousands of years.
The cycle of life and death, reincarnation, karma can be escaped from.

Chris

[observer]

In response to billyji's comment #84

The Ancient Egyptians referred to this as, "balancing the weight of your heart against a feather", billy.

I agree, it is all about living your life in Love. But there is also a trapping mechanism in place. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of this, but you must be able to interpret his metaphors. This is what the Gnosis was all about. This is why the Roman Empire - as agents of Rex Mundi - annihilated the Gnostic Christians, who were the original Christian Society.

[Billy]

In response to billyji's comment #84

The Ancient Egyptians referred to this as, "balancing the weight of your heart against a feather", billy.

I agree, it is all about living your life in Love. But there is also a trapping mechanism in place. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of this, but you must be able to interpret his metaphors. This is what the Gnosis was all about. This is why the Roman Empire - as agents of Rex Mundi - annihilated the Gnostic Christians, who were the original Christian Society.

Therefore living your life as an example of love, as Yeshua did. You have no worry of being trapped.

Peace

[Finefeather]

The White Light is a direct expressway to the Soul Harvesting Apparatus installed on the Moon. That is the reason the light is White.... the Moon is White.

Just take a quick look at this and tell me how white the moon is? Looks more golden to me..

http://www.atalaia.org/filipe/moon/colorofthemoon.htm

[observer]

In response to billyji's comment #84

The Ancient Egyptians referred to this as, "balancing the weight of your heart against a feather", billy.

I agree, it is all about living your life in Love. But there is also a trapping mechanism in place. Yeshua ben Joseph spoke of this, but you must be able to interpret his metaphors. This is what the Gnosis was all about. This is why the Roman Empire - as agents of Rex Mundi - annihilated the Gnostic Christians, who were the original Christian Society.

Therefore living your life as an example of love, as Yeshua did. You have no worry of being trapped.

Peace


Archon, Pronunciation: Ar-konz • (noun)

Archon, in Greek, means "authority," and comes from the same root as "arch," as in "archangel."

In Gnostic belief, Archons were planetary rulers and guardians of the spiritual planes. The archons were associated with the seven visible planets, and perceived as agents of the Demiurge, predatory beings who inhibit spiritual awakening by convincing humanity of a false reality, forces of sin and temptation. - emphasis added by observer.

According to the Nag Hammadi Text, there are methods for avoiding them, but one must first be aware of their presence, how they work, and how to avoid them. This is why the reports of what Yeshua said regarding them were excluded from the New Testament.

Having a heart filled with Love is not enough. Understanding the mechanism of control is the key to ascension.

Wishing you Greater Peace....

[observer]

The White Light is a direct expressway to the Soul Harvesting Apparatus installed on the Moon. That is the reason the light is White.... the Moon is White.

Just take a quick look at this and tell me how white the moon is? Looks more golden to me..

http://www.atalaia.org/filipe/moon/colorofthemoon.htm

Come-on Ray, you can do better than that. The website you offered is all about how to color-enhance the Moon using Photoshop.

Photoshop is a image manipulating tool, and has nothing to do with what is being reported.

I challenge you to go-out and stare at the Moon. Then report-back how much Golden Color you see.

The color examples I'm reporting are for comparison values only. The telepathic mind manipulating technology installed on the Moon dates back into antiquity to the Dawn of Man. It is all designed to trap individuals into this particular reality.

Take that knowledge into Photoshop and try to confuse the issue with the results....

[greybeard]

There is enough to fear in life without being frightened of what happens when you cross over.
David Icke said "There is nothing but unconditional love everything else is just an illusion"
I agree with that.
It was a welcome relief to find that there is no judgement-- apart from our own life review.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXQsb7tSwUE



Neurosurgeon for the last 25 years, Eben Alexander, M.D., discussed his transcendental Near-Death Experience (NDE), in which he was driven to the brink of death and spent a week deep in coma in 2008 from a severe case of bacterial meningitis. In contrast to many other NDEs, his memory of his life on Earth was wiped out during his experience. He first went into a long period of being in a dark, murky place with the sense of roots or vessels around him, and a monotonous pounding sound. "It was from that that I was actually rescued by a floating, very fine white light," that had a beautiful melody, he said. From there, the spinning light opened into a lovely, verdant valley with butterflies and flowers, and a beautiful girl, whom he later learned was like his guardian angel. This area turned out to be a gateway, where he first recognized "the divine creative power beneath it all."

He felt a sense of love, and then traveled out to the universe, into "an infinite cold black void that was filled with that love, and also had this brilliant orb of light...There was this awareness of three of us, that divine infinitely knowing and loving creative source whom many would call God, this brilliant orb of light, and then my consciousness which was far beyond the consciousness of any individual," he detailed. During the experience, Alexander was told that he would be shown many things, but he was only there temporarily, and would eventually be returning to Earth. After his recovery, one of his conclusions based on his NDE, was that neuroscience is very far from understanding how memory works, "and I now believe that a lot of memory is actually associated with processes that are outside of the physical brain and physical universe"

Show from 2012-11-29 with George Noory & Linda Moulton Howe
----------------------------------------­----------------------------------------­--------------

Investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe discussed the extraordinary near-death experience (NDE) of Dr. Eben Alexander.


Link to the book:
http://amzn.to/VHLed5

Coast To Coast AM
http://www.coasttocoastam.com

[Billy]

Thank you Greybeard for the above video. The video compliments the experience of André Luiz - Astral City. Which i found in another thread here on Avalon. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?58739-THE-ASTRAL-CITY-Movie-of-the-story-of-a-doctor-s-odyssey-in-the-Spirit-World-after-death.&p=668474&highlight=brasilian#post668474

http://www.geae.inf.br/en/books/ac/AstralCity.PDF



Here is a small quote.

On Earth, however, our good resolutions are like a flickering flame in a
immense see of aggressive forces. “
“Don’t say that.” Answered the generous Minister. “You mustn’t attach
so much importance to the influence of the lower zones – it would be the same
as arming the enemy against ourselves. The field of ideas is also a battlefield.
Any really constructive light we may kindle on Earth will shine forever, for
the hurricane of human passions can never blow out a single one of God’s
lights.”
Our hostess seemed deeply impressed by the Minister’s words. She
radically changed her mental attitude and spoke cheerfully:


And here.

A Message from André Luiz
Life never ceases. Life is an overflowing source, and death is only an
obscure effect of illusions.
The great river follows its own course before joining the vast sea.
Likewise, the soul follows equally varied routes and passes through different
stages, receiving here and there tributaries of knowledge, strengthening its
personality and perfecting its qualities before reaching the Ocean of Eternal
Wisdom.
The closing of our earthly eyes is such a simple event.
The shedding of the physical body does not solve the fundamental
problems of enlightenment, just as changing ones clothes has nothing to do
with the deep questions of life and destiny.
Ah, paths of the soul, mysterious ways of the heart! One must walk
their full lengths before facing the supreme equation of Eternal Life. It is
essential for you to live all their conflicts and to know them fully in the long
process of spiritual ascension.

How childish to imagine that the mere "ringing down of the curtain"
would settle transcendental questions of the Infinite.
One life is but a single act.
One body - a garment.
One century - a day.
One task - an experience.
One triumph - an acquisition.
One death - a breath of renovation.
How many lives, how many bodies, how many centuries, how many
tasks, how many triumphs, how many deaths are still allotted to us?

End Quote:

[Finefeather]

The White Light is a direct expressway to the Soul Harvesting Apparatus installed on the Moon. That is the reason the light is White.... the Moon is White.

Just take a quick look at this and tell me how white the moon is? Looks more golden to me..

http://www.atalaia.org/filipe/moon/colorofthemoon.htm

Come-on Ray, you can do better than that. The website you offered is all about how to color-enhance the Moon using Photoshop.

Photoshop is a image manipulating tool, and has nothing to do with what is being reported.

I challenge you to go-out and stare at the Moon. Then report-back how much Golden Color you see.

The color examples I'm reporting are for comparison values only. The telepathic mind manipulating technology installed on the Moon dates back into antiquity to the Dawn of Man. It is all designed to trap individuals into this particular reality.

Take that knowledge into Photoshop and try to confuse the issue with the results....
What amazes me is that some people still think that the moon gives off light of it's own..
The moon appears white in the day because of the filtering in the atmosphere...it changes color at times also depending on the angle and it's position relative to where you are.
I have seen it an orange color and a yellow and even a blue hazy color. When you are in the open away from the cities you will be amazed how beautiful it can be sometimes.

Of course the link I gave is a photoshop...it says so...I was showing the beauty of the moon.

You dear observer are just trying to convince people of some idea you have in your mind, which despite your so called evidence is just not true.
Of course the only time you are going to get your true answer...the one that will convince you...is the day you die...hope you'll contact one of us on earth to inform us of the truth.
Take care brother
Ray

[observer]

In response to Finefeather's comment # 93.

As an observer, Ray, my job is to report on the observations I've made. I'm not here to "convince" anyone of these analyses. It is the responsibility of each individual to decern for themselves what has been reported. It is my habit to give research references with many of my comments, so that any individual is free to look at the evidence themselves. Few among the members do the actual research.

The foundational hypothesis of these reports is that the Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man.

This continuing lie is obvious with any in-depth study of multiple sources of what is commonly referred to as "channeled material". It matters not whether that source is a prophet, seer, clairvoyant, or any other name you wish to apply to this telepathically implanted thought process. The general message is - and has been since the Dawn of Man - "go back to sleep.... everything will be OK".

If you happened to be among the many who have had their world cave-in on them, say for instance, that Palestinian mother holding the lifeless body of her dead infant, while huddled in a corner of her bombed-out home, you will clearly see that "everything is NOT OK. Yet, the telepathically implanted message remains the same.... since the Dawn of Man.

This, sir, is why I report my observations to the members. Many among us don't see that the telepathically implanted message is tainted.

I'm certain that gentle animal, trained to lead the flock down the chute to the slaughter house, has no idea of what it is doing either....

[greybeard]

Some of what you say Observer is without doubt correct.
I believe that our ancient history is very different from that which we are taught.
I have no doubt that there is a very serious attempt to control us.
Fear is the main control tool.
You without realising it are pointing to a frightening end result, which I dont believe for one moment.
Can God be captured imprisoned, be fed off by parasitic beings?
I think not.
Just one enlightened story.
Alexander the Great heard of a Yogi who could do amazing things. Alexander summoned the mystic--he did not come.
Alexander went to see him and said "If you do not come with me I will cut off your head with my sword"
The mystic said "Then we will both watch it fall to the ground"
The strongest weapon of fear was lying to people about what would happen after death.
You are not lying Observer but the people who wrote the books etc you have got the info from have perhaps been lied to.
Every single mystic and most of the Near Death Experiencers tell of a loving God that they are one with---separation never occurred-- even science is now proving that everything is interconnected.
The Sage will say--"I am the totality, all of it"
They are coming from a place of direct experience not book knowledge.
Literally anything that happens to one happens to all.
Anything that adds to fear lowers the collective consciousness.
Any act thought word or deed that is kind lifts the collective as proved in "Power vs Force" by Dr David Hawkins
As far as choice goes there is only love or fear-- choose wisely is the standard advice.

Chris

[observer]

In reply to greybeard's comment #95.

Why don't we all.... just go back to sleep, and submit to another a$$-biting eternity of birth-death-rebirth?

I would submit, Chris, this "fear mantra" is simply more regurgitation from the telepathic thought controllers. I have seen this "fear is our great enemy" mantra reappear in the channeled message, ad infinitum.

It is my impression that the emotion of fear is not what is being fed upon. All forms of extreme emotions are what draw the Archons to your presence. It is the memories of your past lives that is being taken from your eternal soul.

Fear can be one of our best survival tools. Use it wisely....

[Finefeather]

Fear can be one of our best survival tools. Use it wisely....
Hi observer...
Sure...if you meet up with a great big grizzly bear in the forest...run like hell :)

But it certainly does not beat wisdom...when you can lie down and pretend your dead and relieve the threat from the bear, who will himself recover from his fear of you.
Fear is lack of understanding of the outcome of an event...and most times it ends up in a false alarm.
Fear is what gets us into an emotional state from which we accept things we would not normally accept...and do things we would not normally do.

Do not confuse fear with smart thinking.

Wisdom is knowing who you are and what the real outcome of threats are...and knowing what the best course of action would be to neutralize the threat.

Take care
Ray

[greybeard]

In reply to greybeard's comment #95.

Why don't we all.... just go back to sleep, and submit to another a$$-biting eternity of birth-death-rebirth?

I would submit, Chris, this "fear mantra" is simply more regurgitation from the telepathic thought controllers. I have seen this "fear is our great enemy" mantra reappear in the channeled message, ad infinitum.

It is my impression that the emotion of fear is not what is being fed upon. All forms of extreme emotions are what draw the Archons to your presence. It is the memories of your past lives that is being taken from your eternal soul.

Fear can be one of our best survival tools. Use it wisely....

Hi Observer
yes fear can be positive.
As to going back to sleep-- its a question of who exactly is in the dream and who is awake?
I put my money on the sages being fully awake and some personal experiences lead me to believe what they say.
The path they point to and have trod is right for me.
When David Icke can say "Only unconditional love is real--the rest is an illusion" I think with his vast knowledge he is worth listening to.
Fully awake is to be fully aware of the challenges of the world---to be in the world but not off it as Jesus said.

I have no doubt of your genuine concern and compassion Observer --we just see things differently
Regards Chris

[lookbeyond]

Hi Observer, i would be interested in knowing where to look for what Yeshua said in reguard to protecting self/avoiding deception of archons etc at death- if you hav time, where in Bible or Nag H library- thanks lookbeyond

[heyokah]

Sure...if you meet up with a great big grizzly bear in the forest...run like hell :)

But it certainly does not beat wisdom...when you can lie down and pretend your dead and relieve the threat from the bear, who will himself recover from his fear of you.

---

Do not confuse fear with smart thinking.



A hungry bear will think.... "Wow, I love those 'smart thinkers', I don't even have to chase them. They really make my day!" :wink:



Fear is lack of understanding of the outcome of an event...and most times it ends up in a false alarm.
Fear is what gets us into an emotional state from which we accept things we would not normally accept...and do things we would not normally do.



I agree with that.
It's all just ignorance and fear of death...... and the Archons love it, like they love all kinds of extreme emotions.
Just read the news, watch TV..... and so on.





Wisdom is knowing who you are and what the real outcome of threats are...and knowing what the best course of action would be to neutralize the threat.


Yes, that requires a lot of discernment, which is one of the highest levels of spiritual growth.
Then good information about the control and the 'Lie We Live In' will not result in fear anymore.

Like I said in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?56913-What-controls-the-hologram&p=658972#post658972):

"When information is falling like seed on unprepared ground, it might end up in fear, anger or the feeling of being personally attacked.
All that depends on the energy level on which the receiver is vibrating at that moment, the element Earth, Water or Fire (fear - basic emotions - pride and ego).

Only from the vibration level of Air (where Heart resides) and higher (Ether, Sound and Light), the information will probably be understood with discernment, creativity and in full awareness (consciousness) so it can be transformed into something fruitful."



And yes, greybeard,
"Only unconditional love is real--the rest is an illusion"

Unfortunately, we are stuck here in this illusion, this hologram we are forced to live in. And we need a lot of information being spread to free ourselves and the masses out of this prison.

Much love,
heyokah

[Finefeather]

A hungry bear will think.... "Wow, I love those 'smart thinkers', I don't even have to chase them. They really make my day!" :wink:

Hi heyokah
Thanks for the post...then we hear of these stories...which makes you think about our relationships with our animal friends.
Love to you
Ray



This reminds me of a story of cougars and bears in Yosemite. A very private person I know told me this story that happened to her, while in an altered state. She was with some rangers in Yosemite, at the upper levels somewhere. She asked the rangers if she could sing to the animals. I assume humoring her, they said yes. She sang, and cougars and bears came out of the forest to her. She sang it is bad right now but soon it will get better. It will get better.

The lions and bears left. When she left Yosemite, the some rangers lined the road, and bowed to her as she departed.

The animals know. :) (course the bear seized the entire barrel, it was *his* ... lol)

Sierra

[markpierre]

The part of you that makes up scary stories doesn't leave the scary stories. It, along with them, fades into the unreal, because they never were real.
That part of you was entirely made up, and the basis of the story you just extricated yourself from. That story is over.
So it was about slavery? Did you learn anything about yourself?

Who in the hell do you think you're not? that you're going to get caught by something outside of totality, and kidnapped.
Doesn't that sound more like a movie plot?
Something that's you is going to capture you and eat your soul.
You won't get highjacked by anything other than your own ideas and fears. I'm sorry. I enjoy them too. We waste time with them.
If you have to stop and search around for the right light, or else you're screwed, you're going to hang around for a long time, because you'll never be sure.
If you had a choice you probably would screw it up. When you do screw it up, it's okay. You always just keep making choices and getting what you ask for.

You've never been alone and unprotected, and you never will be. There's nothing real that defies Reality.
You reject the story of Hell, do you really prefer this one? You don't want to be one of those guys who have to be nursed into realizing they're dead, and that it's okay. God didn't go anywhere, it's still in you. You're still in it. Dying is just waking up from a really weird and unnatural dream.

You think what you want, but I'd just be getting on to perfecting that love in you here, instead of having to distinguish it from all the other love that surrounds you all the time. That really was the point of this sojourn by the way. Finding that thing in you here.
If it isn't something at least that magnanimous, what are you doing in this stupid place? Just figuring it out?

And so you don't need to worry, because you'll probably beat yourself home by the time you die. If anybody is interested in that. Not usually.

I've met too many people who want to remain people, and the best they can do to be that, is to keep looking down. Stay in their stories.
You can give yourself to whatever you want to. Will you give yourself to the unfathomable? That you never really left home? You're still looking in stories.

My best advice to everyone is to look up.

[Finefeather]

The part of you that makes up scary stories doesn't leave the scary stories. It, along with them, fades into the unreal, because they never were real.
That part of you was entirely made up, and the basis of the story you just extricated yourself from. That story is over.
So it was about slavery? Did you learn anything about yourself?

Who in the hell do you think you're not? that you're going to get caught by something outside of totality, and kidnapped.
Doesn't that sound more like a movie plot?
Something that's you is going to capture you and eat your soul.
You won't get highjacked by anything other than your own ideas and fears. I'm sorry. I enjoy them too. We waste time with them.
If you have to stop and search around for the right light, or else you're screwed, you're going to hang around for a long time, because you'll never be sure.
If you had a choice you probably would screw it up. When you do screw it up, it's okay. You always just keep making choices and getting what you ask for.

You've never been alone and unprotected, and you never will be. There's nothing real that defies Reality.
You reject the story of Hell, do you really prefer this one? You don't want to be one of those guys who have to be nursed into realizing they're dead, and that it's okay. God didn't go anywhere, it's still's in you. You're still in it. Dying is just waking up from a really weird and unnatural dream.

You think what you want, but I'd just be getting on to perfecting that love in you here, instead of having to distinguish it from all the other love that surrounds you all the time. That really was the point of this sojourn by the way. Finding that thing in you here.
If it isn't something at least that magnanimous, what are you doing in this stupid place? Just figuring it out?

And so you don't need to worry, because you'll probably beat yourself home by the time you die. If anybody is interested in that. Not usually.

I've met too many people who want to remain people, and the best they can do to be that, is to keep looking down. Stay in their stories.
You can give yourself to whatever you want to. Will you give yourself to the unfathomable? That you never really left home? You're still looking in stories.

My best advice to everyone is to look up.
Hi markpierre
Wonderful stuff...
Take care brother and much love
Ray

[greybeard]

Adyashanti - The End of Your World (Disk 1 of 6)


More and more people today have had a glimpse of genuine spiritual awakening, only to see it slip away after a few hours or days. Adyashanti calls this the "I got it/I lost it" phenomenon, and it perplexes many of his students. For those caught between what he calls "non-abiding" awakening and the ultimate state of "abiding" enlightenment, Adyashanti offers The End of Your World--an in-depth look at the remarkable yet enigmatic process of spiritual awakening. With straight talk and penetrating insight, Adyashanti helps readers navigate the pitfalls and cul-de-sacs that "un-enlighten" us along the journey, including: The trap of meaninglessness How the ego can "co-opt" realization for its own purposes The illusion of superiority that may accompany intense spiritual breakthroughs The danger of becoming "drunk on emptiness". "I often ask people who come to me, `Are you ready to lose your world?", explains Adyashanti, "Because true awakening will not fit into the world as you imagine it or the self you imagine yourself to be." Covering a range of topics ordinarily kept private between student and teacher, The End of Your World invites you to join Adyashanti for an honest investigation of what you really are--and how to live when you discover it.

Find us on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MonkeyMindSo...


This is echoing what markpierre has said.

A genuine enlightened teacher tells it as it is.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPG4MMkkb9U

[Flash]

Fear can be one of our best survival tools. Use it wisely....
Hi observer...
Sure...if you meet up with a great big grizzly bear in the forest...run like hell :)

But it certainly does not beat wisdom...when you can lie down and pretend your dead and relieve the threat from the bear, who will himself recover from his fear of you.
Fear is lack of understanding of the outcome of an event...and most times it ends up in a false alarm.
Fear is what gets us into an emotional state from which we accept things we would not normally accept...and do things we would not normally do.

Do not confuse fear with smart thinking.

Wisdom is knowing who you are and what the real outcome of threats are...and knowing what the best course of action would be to neutralize the threat.

Take care
Ray

i agree with the principles of your post, but it made me laugh.

The last thing you want to do when encountering a bear, and more if a grizzly, is to run like hell. You then make an appealing prey. They will outrun you anytime. Like your own fear if uncontrolled will outrun you.

With a bear, grizzly or not, you put your eyes down, facing it, and very slowly you back up (hoping there is no branch to stumble on and that the bear is not too hungry (has eaten some bays and fishes or rodents before). You check the environment to make sure you are not between a cub and its mother (the worst bear situation). If you are, you pulled away from that position.

This means almost complete control of one's own fears. Danger is known, fear arise, senses are ultra awakened and fears transforms into prudence and wisdom.

Compare that with my sister who jumped on my back thinking I could protect her and carry her when hearing the roar of a bear. We were both doomed. I had to handle her too, telling her to slowly get down and walk backward for a while. It is my voice who controlled her, while I was sh ng in my pants and controlling my urge to run. Often, the "awakened" has to temporarily do the job of many.

While I am thinking of it, my sister almost made me sink at a bottom of a river when I saved her, cause she could not control herself, she panicked. Once again, I controlled my fright and made sure we were seen from the shore by letting her climb over my shoulders - well, she left me no choice, but yet, I did not panicked - so that i could touch the bottom (we were not that far).

My lesson here should be "don't try to save the fear driven individual, they will sink you" lol or "know that what you fear maybe less dangerous than your illusions about what you do not fear, be prepared for all eventualities, always".

[sheme]

I met a young lady on pilgrimage once - she had awful claw scars on her scalp- shaved head -she was a Buddhist nun, I asked for her story- she said she was in India in the Mountains and met a (?Himalayan) Bear and it attacked her, she said she just stood perfectly still and repeated the "Om" mantra expecting to die -but- the bear stopped and left her alone. Guess it was awestruck? As I was.

[Finefeather]

i agree with the principles of your post, but it made me laugh.

The last thing you want to do when encountering a bear, and more if a grizzly, is to run like hell. You then make an appealing prey. They will outrun you anytime. Like your own fear if uncontrolled will outrun you.

Hi Flash
Yes that is why I put a smile at the end of the sentence :) When I was very young I grew up on a smallholding with lots of animals and when we approached the geese used to hiss like mad and we used to run away and they all chased us down the path :) great scary stuff...until we learnt to stand our ground. There were 5 of us and we eventually used to go climbing trees, and all the animals...ducks, geese, chickens, dogs, cats, and cows used to follow us around the place and we all seemed to get on great. We even used to share our lunch packs with them.
Of course I have never faced a bear so I take my hat off to your brave...wise actions.
Love to you
Ray

[heyokah]

Sorry, wrong thread.

[STR]

So much fear mongering! And by so many that have not actually even been out of their body. At least this is my suspicion because if you have been you would surely know nothing sinister is going on here. Loving reunions take place if you step out of yourself briefly. I agree with Simon to focus home. But there is a loving light being often in my life. Been there since I was very young. I've been out and about and seen the crystal city, visited relatives, friends deceased, and was told some were no longer there but had gone back to do it again. My beliefs before this were nothing to do with this nonsense and I pretty much walked the atheist path somewhat. Not all that took place was recalled by me, even to this day but I saw enough to learn much and I don't believe the fear based reports at all here. Just don't see evidence of it.

What I see is that we are all the same. As above so below. We function no different in our life cycle than the earth herself does, or the universe itself does. We all turn in and out within ourselves, the implicate order forward then the explicate and in and out with apparent transition states of awareness, even preparation in between these new now experiences. All there is, is right now. Memory does not necessarily get included in this equation. We all approach the threshold horizon, or event horizon as described by physics with the only difference between us and planets is the life cycle for when this event horizon is approached. Eventually earth will once again approach the event horizon of the 'black hole' if you will. She, like universe, like us and all other singularities this roll over is a natural event. The reason all of earth is suffering a mass amnesia is for the same reason we don't recall but bits and pieces of past lives. As we fold over and into ourselves in this cycle the amnesia is a built in part of the experience and simply part of the great plan for avoiding stagnation. Life always moves forward, is always new, is always pushed to the limit. Things settle for a time, then whammo! Unsettled, pushing us to the limits, keeping us from becoming complacent and as a result we learn and grow faster. Calm seas have never once made for a skillful sailor! Proverbs

STR

[STR]

"Going into the White Light is a direct trip into the Soul Trap that is harvesting and consuming Soul-Essence. This has been an operation on the Moon since the Dawn of Man."

What is the purpose of this?

"Going into the Golden Light is a direct trip out of this Prison Universe."

What is outside the "prison universe"?

This Particular Reality is a feeding operation, SlickWillie.

This Soul Harvesting Antenna has been on the Moon since Man first arrived, here on this planet. Understanding the process of birth-death-rebirth with little or no recollection of your former lifetime is all part of the harvesting operation. The essence of your Soul-Stuff is consumed and only a seed of your former self is replanted into another body to grow another crop. This process leads to the a$$-biting loops of endless lifetimes.

Very few who have had the where-with-all to make it out of this loop have ever returned to tell the story of how one escapes. The few who were able and did return, have had their stories manipulated into lies.

The astral plane (or, the quantum field of infinite potential) is patrolled by Archons who can appear in any form they desire. There is no objective evidence to conclude any astral experience was not manipulated. Faith-based testimonies are not evidence.

This harvesting operation is the only explanation that makes any sense, if one follows all the abstract trails of evidence.

The Mass of Humanity has been lied to since the Dawn of Man. The evidence ALL points to this conclusion. Answer "why" to the reason Humanity has been continuously lied to.

As to what lies beyond This Particular Reality, all I can say is: something else.

You said it yourself! Faith based claims are not evidence! All of this is faith based unless you can prove by some means other than words the claims made. Even if there is an antennae on the moon, what evidence is there it is this trap? If Archons exist where is the proof? Jesus supposedly existed and it is hotly debated if it is true or myth. I believe there is more to prove Jesus existed than Archons.


I say, with all due respect. Look in the mirror. One must realize to say one faith based claim is more credible than another is fallacy?

[birddog]

I had a NDE and I went through the tunnel. The tunnel had white fire light...it was so white that is the only way that I can describe it. No fire, but the light was just like white fire light. (If one can imagine.) The tunnel had rocks all around, and a smooth white path going up the center. I saw a golden angel in front of me, and I noticed that she moved, rather floated upright, and stopped, looked around to see where I was, and then I moved (floated upright) this was done by intent...and then I stopped. I could remember my family, and friends, and other things...and realized my memories were with me in spirit. I was wearing a white gown with cumberbun and robe, although I don't remember changing. I looked human...the same. I could feel, but I didn't touch the ground. I floated above the ground. When I finally stepped through the tunnel, it was onto a cloud. Then, I found out it was not my time.

Sometimes family is there to meet the newly departed. However each time is different. I would never be afraid to go into the light. Spirit will take you where you need to go. Spirit knows the way. I would just let my higher self lead. :)