Dear Avalon (Dear John) post - "It is time for me to leave..."

[Arc]

This is the topic of my thread. Why do members feel the need to "announce" their decision to leave a forum?

As I quietly observe Avalon over a number of years you get like 1-2 of this type of post every other month.

"Dear Avalon (Dear John)... I just can not stay as a member of this forum any longer... [sigh]...also here is some other personal baggage, that I want to share to hopefully elicit an emotional response from you... "
(and with this message, sad piano or perhaps violin, or melancholy guitar was playing in the background, for sure)

I am trying to understand why, and if it is constructive. While I do have an opinion, I do not claim to have the final answer, and hope members can help us understand - perhaps this is part of human nature and vital to our experience, or perhaps it is a distraction by an individual's ego.

"[Dear Avalon]... I have been beckoned by my Ego, and the Universe, to leave the membership of this, mostly anonymous internet blog, and I MUST announce it publicly, because that will likely help to feed my Ego in hopes that lots of other members will feed me attention and tell me they will miss me! and make me a nice big cake! and cry a tear while they wave their handkerchief out of the train window, and sniffle, for them leaving...."

(by the way, some of these same folks return to the forum later - I have observed it right here on Avalon.. why??)

"Oh, members of Avalon, I will miss you so much, and I have to urgently stop posting here... BUT - I will keep posting here on this thread, where I am purportedly quitting the forum, but only for more attention to bid me farewell, so that my Ego can feast on it ... will you please BEG me to stay?!? please!! beg me!!!"

Ok, so here is my point. Look up at the header/title of this Avalon Forum. Tell me if you read this same message:
"The Project Avalon Forum, Chronicles of the Human Awakening... where Science and Spirituality meet."
So, if you make a post for your Ego, about leaving this forum, does that contribute to the goal or vision of the forum?? Does your leaving have any positive impact on anyone's awareness, or awakening, or growth?? or is it just a way to tickle your own Ego, by threatening the forum that you may commit "forum-cide" and leave the forum??
My point is - is it constructive in any way at all to the awakening of humanity or meeting of science and spirituality???

My deduction, is likely that it's not. I reserve the possibility that I may be wrong, and so this is why I am asking the forum for feedback, as well as also hopefully making the forum aware that these Dear John posts really do not do much to help the forum, but merely may just feed personal egos.

I do admit there are exceptions to this. For example, if Bill Ryan ever wanted to leave the forum (one he created) it would warrant a large explanatory post or even series of posts and videos as to why. Similarly, we have some popular, "anchor" type posters here who, when they might leave, we would all want to know about it. My main, recent example is Modwiz. He was such a common and loved poster with much respect, that we all would expect a farewell message. But, for those of us (me too)... "Hello Avalon... I... Joe Schmoe.. would like to leave this forum.... blah..." - Who cares??

I compare it to suicide a bit. That is a serious topic, and I do not want to make light of it, but my point is, that is a very "final" type of decision, and so you can easily sort out the ones who truly want to kill themselves quietly, versus those who just want attention that they might do it, and expect the public about them to react. Those who really want to kill themselves will do it quietly without a whisper.. those who want attention, will write a dramatic letter, let you find it, make superficial cuts on their body, lie on the floor as though injured... and hope everyone will weep and pick them up.

So, I mean, if you want to leave, my advice is to, NOT leave. Just stop posting and reading the site for a bit. I mean I have done it. Instead of a large dramatic display (with cake and tears)... just log off, ok? I mean, you may want to come back in 6 months or something. I have been there. Instead of making some drama about it, just disappear quietly, and return when you feel it's time.

[Vitalux]

I am trying to understand why, and if it is constructive. While I do have an opinion, I do not claim to have the final answer, and hope members can help us understand - perhaps this is part of human nature and vital to our experience, or perhaps it is a distraction by an individual's ego.


My guess is it boils down to just two reasons;

1. They do that just to piss you off :angry:

or

2. Source made them do that, just so you would have something to complain about :yell:

*laughs* :laugh:

But in all seriousness I think they do that out of LOVE just to let their friends know that they enjoyed the experience while being a member but they are moving onto new experiences.

Myself, I appreciate someone saying farewell. :hug:

[bram]

Usually, people want to make a break in a formal way, with announcement cakes and sad piano music (as you put it) because this forum is addictive and they are having trouble breaking away. I told everybody I was going offline for a bit in an online announcement because that was the only way to force myself not to log on and post trivial responses to ongoing arguments. I put a timeframe on it as well, and forced myself to stay away for the prescribed time, coming back calmer and more refreshed.

before i did this, I tried to stay away, deleted the site from my favourites and everything, but it didn't work. Project Avalon- harder to quit than heroin!

Love, bram

[Wookie]

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Wait did I write that in my outside typing? My Bad. I know such post help me to not say everything I'm feeling :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wui-PNqJrxs
MMM four drumsticks instead of two

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[Arc]

Usually, people want to make a break in a formal way, with announcement cakes and sad piano music (as you put it) because this forum is addictive and they are having trouble breaking away. I told everybody I was going offline for a bit in an online announcement because that was the only way to force myself not to log on and post trivial responses to ongoing arguments. I put a timeframe on it as well, and forced myself to stay away for the prescribed time, coming back calmer and more refreshed.

before i did this, I tried to stay away, deleted the site from my favourites and everything, but it didn't work. Project Avalon- harder to quit than heroin!

Love, bram

Hah! Wonderful! So glad you posted bram!

That is what I was fishing for. Perhaps there is a human need for the attention, even on a web forum, for human empathy. And, that personally, you truly desired to return. Look, so have I before also! So, now that we both (all of us?) know that ... why leave a forum?? Just post when you feel you need to... rest when you feel you need to... etc. You can stay in the Avalon Family. Just modify your activity as appropriate...

[markpierre]

How and why do egos decide they're able to determine what's ego and what isn't? And then complain about it.

[Mulder]

This is the topic of my thread. Why do members feel the need to "announce" their decision to leave a forum?

So, I mean, if you want to leave, my advice is to, NOT leave. Just stop posting and reading the site for a bit. I mean I have done it. Instead of a large dramatic display (with cake and tears)... just log off, ok? I mean, you may want to come back in 6 months or something. I have been there. Instead of making some drama about it, just disappear quietly, and return when you feel it's time.

Let's hope people start taking this advice. It reminds me of death scenes in old silent movies - so dramatic and played-out for way too long.

[Lettherebelight]

My response to this thread op, is that if 'farewell' threads don't interest you, just accept that fact rather than try to analyse the psychology (ie. discuss what you perceive to be flaws in their logic) of the forum member.

If they actually annoy you, then perhaps you need to look at your own psychology and ask yourself why.

If one expects others to behave the way they wish, especially on personal matters, then one is setting themselves up for frustration indeed.

I personally do not mind 'goodbye' threads, as it gives me the opportunity to thank the other human being for sharing their time and viewpoints...if I wish to.

[Daft Ada]

My question would have to be why does anything other forum members do bother anyone if it does not directly affect them? There seems to be a lot of self appointed behaviour police on forums.

[greybeard]

When people arrive they announce their presence.
Some may think it good manners to say "Im going"
There is also then the opportunity to exchange e mail skype for anyone who wishes to remain in contact.
It can be difficult to get in touch with all your friends instantly unless you are really organised.
Different strokes for different folks--- I think its human nature to want to feel that we made a difference.
Chris

[ulli]

I've done both. Some situations are best left behind by sneaking away quietly, while there are some others where it is only polite to let everyone know what's going on, lest they start worrying.
There are so many people here on Avalon Ive got to know quite well...when I don't see them around in a while I become concerned if they are ok.

[Fred Steeves]

I did that once. I wanted to both thank Bill and the forum for being here, and I also thought leaving might change something I didn't like that was going on in the forum in my wake. I "knew" that I would never return, it was not a bluff. Hell, I didn't even know you could come back after retiring. (LOL) Well it took some time to begin coming to the realization that I wasn't seeing the forest through the trees so to speak, it was ME that needed to change some things.

Very valuable lesson, as that scenario can play out in many ways in life. Like, you can't change the world, but you CAN change yourself.

Have some softer eyes when people do this. Sure some do it just out of ego, but for others it's a monumental decision. It may be the right or the wrong decision, for the right or wrong reasons, but it's important for them in that time. They want to share it, and they DO truly want to say goodbye.

[Rich]

It reminds me of death scenes in old silent movies - so dramatic and played-out for way too long.

reminds me of, not a silent movie but still pretty dramatic...
BRGTVvOfzjs

[Cidersomerset]

I don't like goodbyes............I usually say 'See You Later'
even to strangers, who are friends you have not met yet !


xNs3nK31DKc

Not the best of quality.......

[Joe Akulis]

"Have some softer eyes when people do this." Well spoken, Fred.

Everyone's opinion on this subject will depend on the friendship you have cultivated with the person leaving. Don't know them from Adam? *shrug* I try to just flip to the next post then. I have seen a few that have this same effect on me, like, "Ohmigosh, what an ego trip." BUT, there are some people that I can think of, if they were to call it quits here, I would probably hit them up on the side and see if they would like to continue to email with me from time to time to keep each other up to date on our progress and experiences. Not having that chance to stay in touch with someone would be a downer.

[Mandala]

Project Avalon- harder to quit than heroin!

I love that quote, because it's true for me also. At least I've got my habit more manageable at this point.
It used to be the first thing I did in the morning, with periodic checks during the day, and the last thing I did before bed.

I think one reason people announce that they are leaving is to see if they will be missed.
( Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs, level three - Love and acceptance)

Why announce it? Just take a break from the forum. You might want to post again at a later date. Announcing you are leaving seems a bit grandiose to me.

[Camilo]

No feedback needed, you just said it all as it is.

[buckminster fuller]

I thought humility was a step stone towards enlightenment... Dramatizing things only expresses our own fears, I see no need to share those things in a public forum. Pathos plays a major role in our enslavement, I wish each and everyone of us would see that and turn to a less romantic, superficial stance.

[The One]

Oh, members of Avalon, I will miss you so much, and I have to urgently stop posting here... BUT - I will keep posting here on this thread, where I am purportedly quitting the forum, but only for more attention to bid me farewell, so that my Ego can feast on it ... will you please BEG me to stay?!? please!! beg me!!!"

Wow its not about who can score enough brownie points.Its like me saying you started this thread to see what reaction you would get mmmmmmmm ego not that word again.Dont you just love the word ego.Maybe my ego made me respond to your thread.

Some members here have been here a long time and its just their way of being polite and letting members know they have decided to move on.Nothing more nothing less.I think its great that members can be so open and tell us when they leave,its like one big happy family


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umag84Fqk4I

http://25.media.tumblr.com/e6c4213317608c838571899e6f7da9de/tumblr_ml4pkrSfM61rtegdro1_400.gif

Remember folks SAYING GOODBYE IS GREAT it dont matter if its on a forum or to a loved one.And remember every goodbye makes the next hello closer

[Poly Hedra]

When someone says good bye I do find it hard to understand why but to each their own.
I'd much rather if they took some time away instead.
I slip away on a regular basis when i want a break from PA and just not post anything for weeks, and then I'm all over PA like a rash :)

[Team Zen]

Whatever the motivation for a member to say a goodbye, if someone is "hip" enough for this type of forward thinking forum, then recognizing and accepting that person for who/how they are I would expect to be the natural reaction...meaning, if one does it to fish for attention, fine- that's their way of asking for what they need. And we all need a little reassurance now and again. Whatever, give them some attention if you got some to spare, that's the point, show you care. if you don't, save your energy for something more worth your while- Moreover, it seems like some here think the ego is a bad thing, how can you be possibly be truly enlightened or awakened if you have an ego? Ego is part of what makes us human, we can't escape it, why deny/condemn it? Of course keep it in check, but it can be positive, too- gives us self-esteem, self-respect, helps us to not take any s**t from nobody...With all the battles to choose from, why bag on someone else's harmless prerogative?

[Carmody]

It is what it is

It ain't what it ain't

whatever that might be....

[bruno dante]

What it is is annoying.;) Oh, and emotionally manipulative...or at least it's trying to be. It shouldn't, but it still shocks me when members fall for this. It's just embarrassing, not just for the op but for the entire forum.

But here's the thing: much like an impending train wreck, I have to witness it. So I scroll the thread for about as long as I can before I'm overcome with a profound sense of embarrassment and an unrelenting need to vomit onto my keyboard. There have been times where I've read these types of threads and literally begun sweating with embarrasment - not just for the op but for the members who have fallen for the ruse - and to a lesser degree myself for having spent the time reading it. And it's during these times I will go drink a beer or 10 and lament the state of the human race...

Oh, I'm exaggerating a little, but this is just one example (not just on the forum but in life in general) where ego (fragile one's usually) is masquerading as selflessness and magniminity. It drives me nuts.

These types of threads couldn't possibly be more unneccesary. If you want to notify friends of your departure, please do so in private. If you want to thank Bill Ryan, send him a pm or an email. It may seem like a small gesture, but for those of us who are already existentially tortured, it's a significant one. Thanks ahead of time.

[InCiDeR]

EGO is a part of the whole, and as a part of the whole I am here to experience it.

Some would say a thread like that is EGO, other would say leaving without such a thread would be EGO.

I would say both statements are true and false at the same time, it is up to my EGO to define which.

And that is ok, because I am here to experience it.

[Arc]

My response to this thread op, is that if 'farewell' threads don't interest you, just accept that fact rather than try to analyse the psychology (ie. discuss what you perceive to be flaws in their logic) of the forum member.

If they actually annoy you, then perhaps you need to look at your own psychology and ask yourself why.

If one expects others to behave the way they wish, especially on personal matters, then one is setting themselves up for frustration indeed.

I personally do not mind 'goodbye' threads, as it gives me the opportunity to thank the other human being for sharing their time and viewpoints...if I wish to.

I accept the fact that anyone can post what they please here, within forum guidelines. I am just saying, I did not think they really contribute much beyond some self indulgence. People can post what they want, for sure. But, let's say you are in a forum about Trigonometry or Cooking, and folks keep posting farewell notices. I mean that is not helping me solve any more trig problems, nor cooking any new dishes, respectively. See my point?

[buckminster fuller]

Ego is definitely not self-centeredness, or egocentrism, which is was what the OP meant, and what we're discussing. It is an important matter because we're all possible subjects to this. It happens often on this forum, and I do have a problem with that in the sense that we NEED to get over it. Individualism, selfishness are eating this world, and we should be aware that individual liberties make sense only if we find the right compromises to make it happen for all.

Behind the obvious moral reasons, being self-centered is at the root base of many deviant behaviors. It is an intermediate stage before narcissism, and then the individual enters a world where, paradoxically, his need for control and attention extends and shut his connection to others down. Then he falls, as the controllers succeeded to impose on some individuals, into traps as sociopathy, psychopathy, and begin taking part in the big orgy.
I'm obviously not saying that people feeling the need (this is the piece to discuss) to dramatize their virtual (in all possible meanings) departure are psychopaths. Only that the dynamic is negative.
As reasoning, loving beings, we have to not turn a blind eye and be open-minded enough to handle questioning our collective behaviors. I thank the OP for his courage.

[Arc]

I am trying to understand why, and if it is constructive. While I do have an opinion, I do not claim to have the final answer, and hope members can help us understand - perhaps this is part of human nature and vital to our experience, or perhaps it is a distraction by an individual's ego.


My guess is it boils down to just two reasons;

1. They do that just to piss you off :angry:

or

2. Source made them do that, just so you would have something to complain about :yell:

*laughs* :laugh:

But in all seriousness I think they do that out of LOVE just to let their friends know that they enjoyed the experience while being a member but they are moving onto new experiences.

Myself, I appreciate someone saying farewell. :hug:

I love your 1 and 2 points! That is good humor and I can appreciate poking a bit of fun on me also.

You make a valid point about notifying friends on the forum, and that some people appreciate the notice when someone departs.

This is exactly why I did not accept my own opinion (or many others who share it) as the only one, and asked for folks like you to give me the other side of the coin.

I appreciate it! Cheers-

[Carmody]

'An old tiger is at it's most dangerous, just before it goes down'.

In the same way, our old emotional patterns are at their most accentuated, just before they end (within us). the heart's most potent and extreme beat, can, many times, be the last one it beats, as the blood runs out.

When you see emotionalism on this forum, think again. It's not that we can live in others heads, can we? Therefore, we don't really know.

At the same time I wish there were those who would not make such threads, I also do not berate them for it. I've not been perfect and don't expect to be any time soon.

Keep walking, I guess, and sooner or later the distance traveled will show itself.

[Arc]

My question would have to be why does anything other forum members do bother anyone if it does not directly affect them? There seems to be a lot of self appointed behaviour police on forums.

It's true, it really does not affect me much. If people want to post and read those kind of posts, go for it. I just did not think it adds much to the forum vision.

For example, I could write a series of posts, titled, "Hey, I just sat on the toilet a few minutes ago." ... or "I have made X number of bowel movements this week!".

But, I would think many of you don't really want, nor need to know about this, especially on a forum where we are looking for more enlightening, or at least broadly informative topics.

And, the great part is that after I posted those 2 new threads (wait, I just might as a fun experiment), then Daft Ada, when anyone dissents on my posts, I will expect you to be one of my allies, by telling them, "My question would have to be why does anything other forum members do bother anyone if it does not directly affect them?"

Deal??

[Arc]

When people arrive they announce their presence.
Some may think it good manners to say "Im going"
There is also then the opportunity to exchange e mail skype for anyone who wishes to remain in contact.
It can be difficult to get in touch with all your friends instantly unless you are really organised.
Different strokes for different folks--- I think its human nature to want to feel that we made a difference.
Chris

It is a very good point. Human nature and culture appreciates greetings and salutations alike. Good manners, tie off loose ends, politely notify your friends - that is the counter argument I am seeing pop up and I agree it is a valid point.

And, some of you are already influencing my opinion. Again, this is why I made the post instead of quietly holding my thoughts. And, again, this is why I rather not see any of you go - because this is a great forum of diverse perspectives and thoughtful debaters. So, hope folks can still just take breaks/returns instead of full out quit the group.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I've done both. Some situations are best left behind by sneaking away quietly, while there are some others where it is only polite to let everyone know what's going on, lest they start worrying.
There are so many people here on Avalon Ive got to know quite well...when I don't see them around in a while I become concerned if they are ok.

True. It's nice to here an announcement. I thought some of these personal contacts could be handled via personal messages for the closer friends on the forum, but public may be more efficient/appropriate.

[Arc]

I did that once. I wanted to both thank Bill and the forum for being here, and I also thought leaving might change something I didn't like that was going on in the forum in my wake. I "knew" that I would never return, it was not a bluff. Hell, I didn't even know you could come back after retiring. (LOL) Well it took some time to begin coming to the realization that I wasn't seeing the forest through the trees so to speak, it was ME that needed to change some things.

Very valuable lesson, as that scenario can play out in many ways in life. Like, you can't change the world, but you CAN change yourself.

Have some softer eyes when people do this. Sure some do it just out of ego, but for others it's a monumental decision. It may be the right or the wrong decision, for the right or wrong reasons, but it's important for them in that time. They want to share it, and they DO truly want to say goodbye.

Great post Fred. I appreciate your experience. It sounds like you truly were moving in another direction at some point in leaving, but then you realized you fit in well here. I am not truly judging anyone. Sure, I may make some light of a topic, but the reason I asked for some feedback was to understand the flip-side.

And, by the way, I am glad you returned, as I tend to read many of your posts. Which is also my alterior point. Why do people just want to abruptly quit the membership? Just take a break instead, and leave your account there. No one will mess with it, and you can log back in anytime when you feel ready to contribute.

That is the great part of these kinds of forums. I would rather share with a robust, diverse group at Avalon membership who can help me see alternative view points and new ideas.

[Arc]

Oh, members of Avalon, I will miss you so much, and I have to urgently stop posting here... BUT - I will keep posting here on this thread, where I am purportedly quitting the forum, but only for more attention to bid me farewell, so that my Ego can feast on it ... will you please BEG me to stay?!? please!! beg me!!!"

Wow its not about who can score enough brownie points.Its like me saying you started this thread to see what reaction you would get mmmmmmmm ego not that word again.Dont you just love the word ego.Maybe my ego made me respond to your thread.

Some members here have been here a long time and its just their way of being polite and letting members know they have decided to move on.Nothing more nothing less.I think its great that members can be so open and tell us when they leave,its like one big happy family

Remember folks SAYING GOODBYE IS GREAT it dont matter if its on a forum or to a loved one.And remember every goodbye makes the next hello closer

Those are good points, and it is beginning to aggregate onto what I see as a main consensus on the counter point argument. People appreciate the formality of a salutation - both poster and audience.

Also, I am not saying ego is all bad nor the root of the problem. All of us, as humans, are imbued with and require some healthy amount of ego to remain in some arm's length state of being from the ocean of Source. Ego is how we maintain ourselves as individual units.

But, what I was pointing out is that I feel some of these farewells are a bit self-indulgent as opposed to informative and salutatory.

[Rich]

Why do people just want to abruptly quit the membership?


I did that once for a few weeks because I spent many hours on this board, and I wanted to use the time for something else instead so i asked the moderators to retire me for a short time to make it easier for me.

[Mandala]

To me it's more a question if they feel they are simply ready to move on OR did we as web members offend the op who has decided to move on and escape. If we are the reason, I would like to know in order to possibly rectify the situation.