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Swami
28th September 2010, 18:14
http://www.redicecreations.com/ul_img/11100vigeland9.jpg

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=866954

Steven
28th September 2010, 19:03
There is a lot more in this statue then just a reptilian creature 'loving' a human female.

Unfortunatly, I can't get more information about this statue, the link you provide says the server is having problems.

Do you know who made it? Why it was made? Where is it standing?

Namaste, Steven

Swami
28th September 2010, 19:08
Yep, link is dead, lets see if I can retrieve it somewhere......

Look what I found Steven..........

http://www.redicecreations.com/ul_img/11100vigeland16.jpg
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=11101

Seems that forum is dead for now..........

heyokah
28th September 2010, 19:24
It is a statue in the Vigeland Statue Park in Oslo Norway , called
Lizard clutching Woman....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/5004003916/

Steven
28th September 2010, 20:12
Yep, that's it Heyokah.

Thanks Swami, that was an interesting reading, along with a little search on the man and his art.

Despite the original intention from the creator of these master works, the theme of dragon and reptile in art history worth some peculiar attention. Of course, we are always told from experts that it symbolises 'evilness' in the world, or any other explanation of this kind. But I'm still not satiated with these explanations.

Personally, I beleive their is more to it than just symbolism of human 'evilness'.

Take the history of saint George for example. When you read it, you notice the historians agrees to accept a large portion of the information coming to us by legends, writtings, arts, etc... As long as it doesn't involve the famous fight with a dragon. Then, they all agree to discard it as fact and explain it with symbolism of the time.

If it was a lone story, I would agree. But it isn't the case. Dragons and reptilians presence in our history are part of all the cultures on Earth. And they all say quite the same about them. Considering what we know today from courageous people, like Credo Mutwa, or David Icke, as just two notorious example, I beleive their is much more than symbolism here. Especially how the relationship between Human/reptile is portraited.

Thanks for the thread.

Namaste, Steven

Swami
28th September 2010, 20:33
Despite the original intention from the creator of these master works, the theme of dragon and reptile in art history worth some peculiar attention. Of course, we are always told from experts that it symbolises 'evilness' in the world, or any other explanation of this kind. But I'm still not satiated with these explanations.

Personally, I beleive their is more to it than just symbolism of human 'evilness'.


This popped up in my head straight away when I read your comment:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3628-Bases-7-Britain-s-Project-Monarch&p=32229&viewfull=1#post32229

heyokah
28th September 2010, 20:37
In Gustav Vigeland's works the reptile represents sin.

The man has his arms bound behind his back, and sin is embracing him against his will ...
The woman has her arms behind her back as well..
See how the reptile/lizard "bites" her in the neck...

Looks like a reptile feeding on men's essence.......like a vampire on blood......
*

Solphilos
28th September 2010, 20:42
Yep, that's it Heyokah.

Thanks Swami, that was an interesting reading, along with a little search on the man and his art.

Despite the original intention from the creator of these master works, the theme of dragon and reptile in art history worth some peculiar attention. Of course, we are always told from experts that it symbolises 'evilness' in the world, or any other explanation of this kind. But I'm still not satiated with these explanations.

Personally, I beleive their is more to it than just symbolism of human 'evilness'.

Take the history of saint George for example. When you read it, you notice the historians agrees to accept a large portion of the information coming to us by legends, writtings, arts, etc... As long as it doesn't involve the famous fight with a dragon. Then, they all agree to discard it as fact and explain it with symbolism of the time.

If it was a lone story, I would agree. But it isn't the case. Dragons and reptilians presence in our history are part of all the cultures on Earth. And they all say quite the same about them. Considering what we know today from courageous people, like Credo Mutwa, or David Icke, as just two notorious example, I beleive their is much more than symbolism here. Especially how the relationship between Human/reptile is portraited.

Thanks for the thread.

Namaste, Steven

There is a definite reptile/serpent/dragon theme that cannot be ignored here.
During my own Ayahuasca and mescaline experiences, the serpent symbolism is blatant and consistent, not only myself but countless others who have taken these plants as well. Of course, all psychedelic experiences are subjective, but the serpent theme persists and seems to be a constant for many people. From slithering snake visions, to larger than life serpents that communicate with you directly, many people are reporting similar events and that has to be taken into consideration before we just start assuming that these are hallucinations that bear no objective meaning.
Even looking back at artwork throughout the ancient world there is always the theme of the snake or dragon that unites almost every culture. The royal family uses it, as did Vladimir Dracula, King Arthur Pendragon, etc.

Celine
28th September 2010, 20:48
Snakes are used to represent many different things..

depends on perspective..

In the Chinese zodiac, snake is listed after the dragon, but its place and the significance as the symbol of worship is far behind the dragon's. The snake carries the meanings of malevolence, cattiness and mystery, as well as acumen, divination and the ability to distinguish herbs. In some places, people believe that a snake found in their court can bring delight. In Spring Festival, people like to paste onto their doors and windows the paper-cut 'Fu' character (happiness), combined with the snake twisting around a rabbit as a popular pattern indicating wealth.

People born in the year of the snake often have a good temper, a skill of communicating, and a gracious morality, but they are likely to be jealous and suspicious. They should be cautious about discussion with others, as that might cause them to lose friendship and opportunities. Women under the sign of the snake do well in housework but are irritable. They might gradually enjoy happiness in their old age.



Some see The snake symbolizing, through the shedding of its skin, the renewal of life ...

In Eastern Indian myth the Sanskrit word for snake is naga and these are associated with the element of water.

In some cultures snakes were fertility symbols, for example the Hopi people of North America performed an annual snake dance to celebrate the union of Snake Youth (a Sky spirit) and Snake Girl (an Underworld spirit) and to renew fertility of Nature.



Just food for thought..

Beth
28th September 2010, 21:58
Women under the sign of the snake do well in housework but are irritable.

Yep, that's me :p

UKIPster
28th September 2010, 22:16
Reptiles Cant Kiss. (No even when their Posing) Get a grip Lizards! Bet you cant Dance either

Solphilos
28th September 2010, 22:28
Reptiles Cant Kiss. (No even when their Posing) Get a grip Lizards! Bet you cant Dance either

They can hug pretty well though :laugh: Can't dance? Ever seen a Cobra? :p

UKIPster
28th September 2010, 22:35
African or European?

observer
5th October 2010, 15:01
'Gnosis in a Nutshell':

First extrapolation:
The 'Great Secret' that modern Freemasons swear oaths of "nothing short of death" to keep from public knowledge is that the 'Great Architect', A.K.A. 'The Masonic God, A.K.A. Lucifer is what Masons of the highest initiation venerate.

This is the reason that most investigators who stumble upon this 'secret' say Freemasons are Satan worshipers. At the highest levels of initiation, this is true. (more accurately, Lucifer Worshipers - the Brightest Light in the Heavens) The most secret levels of all these Cabals practice blood rituals.

Second extrapolation:
This 'Great Secret' has come all the way from antiquity in the form of Gnostic (hidden/occult) knowledge.

The early Gnostics believed the 'Snake in the Garden' was really a manifestation of Sophia, The Great Mother Goddess. That her offer of the fruit of the 'Tree of Knowledge' was an act of love to elevate Humanity out of the slavery for which we were created. (this all relates to the Sitchin translations of the Sumerian Texts where Enki expands the Human genome to include a soul) These earlier Gnostics taught that the Jehovah of the Bible was really a representation of The Fallen Angel, and was a vengeful, jealous, egotistical god. i.e. a perfect candidate for the title 'King of this World' - otherwise known as Rex Mundi. (again, relating to the Sumerian text where Humanity was created as a slave race to work for the Anunnaki - the gods who came down to earth)

Third extrapolation:
The Cathar (the last living extension of true Gnosticism) were not into the blood ritual worship in their pursuit of the God of Love.

They were into Amour. They were so into Amour that they didn't even kill to feed themselves. Much like Buddhism, these early Gnostics were true vegetarians. Their beliefs were in stark contrast to the Roman Catholic Church (Empire). In fact, the Cathar believed the Pope was a representative of Rex Mundi. This is the reason the Demonic Draconians (the reptile god depicted throughout history) had the Cathar annihilated.

Fourth extrapolation:
The Templar, on the other hand, were into the blood rituals. Their claim to fame was the slaughter of the Muslim hoards in the Holy Lands. The Templar were contemporaries of the Cathar, both originating in the same geographical area. So, they were also aware of the Gnosis. The Templar were the ones that perverted the understanding (the gnosis) from that of 'Love' to 'Demon Worship' in their centuries-long quest to dominate the world.

These guys were the quintessential expression of demon worship. They still are today. The highest order of Freemasonry is The Order of Knights Templar - an 'honorary' degree of initiation in the Scottish Rite. The highest initiation within the Templar is to be 'Knighted' by the Queen. The Queen and all of her cohorts are into blood rituals, child sacrifice, and demon worship.

Conclusion:
All of this summation is an expression of Gnostic belief regarding the Sophia phenomenon, however it was all 'perverted' when the Cathar were annihilated. They were the last Gnostic tradition to relate the Sophia Goddess to the God of Love, Amour. All the modern extension of Gnostic belief, i.e. Freemasonry, Rosicrucian, Theosophists, etc. all have drifted into the dark side of Good v. Evil.

This is the reason you have all of these contemporary historians giving dissertations on Gnostic belief and relating it to ritual magic, and evoking spirits. The spirits they are evoking are all related to the Draconian Reptiles. The God of Love is out of the picture. He/She/It died with the Cathar....

© observer 2010

This should shed some light on the imagery of the Reptile. It should also allow one to understand that Humanity is nothing more than an extension of two reptilian 'gods' - Enlil and Enki. i.e. two separate and opposite forms of worshiping the same deities, or a classic Hegelian Dialectic.

They are very clever at what they do....

sojorner
5th October 2010, 17:35
Thanks Observor

You clarified many questions I had regarding the gnostics. I couldn't understand why some sources say they walked in the light..take Marcel Messing and Jay Weidner, they promote gnosticism...and yet others like Bill Cooper say they are pure evil and behind all the dark plans. ...Your explanation helps me see that they were all correct. It's what your intent is.

Soj

Carmody
5th October 2010, 18:46
African or European?

Norwegian Blue.

I guess he's Pining for the Fjords.

Carmody
5th October 2010, 18:57
'Gnosis in a Nutshell':

First extrapolation:
The 'Great Secret' that modern Freemasons swear oaths of "nothing short of death" to keep from public knowledge is that the 'Great Architect', A.K.A. 'The Masonic God, A.K.A. Lucifer is what Masons of the highest initiation venerate.

This is the reason that most investigators who stumble upon this 'secret' say Freemasons are Satan worshipers. At the highest levels of initiation, this is true. (more accurately, Lucifer Worshipers - the Brightest Light in the Heavens) The most secret levels of all these Cabals practice blood rituals.

Second extrapolation:
This 'Great Secret' has come all the way from antiquity in the form of Gnostic (hidden/occult) knowledge.

The early Gnostics believed the 'Snake in the Garden' was really a manifestation of Sophia, The Great Mother Goddess. That her offer of the fruit of the 'Tree of Knowledge' was an act of love to elevate Humanity out of the slavery for which we were created. (this all relates to the Sitchin translations of the Sumerian Texts where Enki expands the Human genome to include a soul) These earlier Gnostics taught that the Jehovah of the Bible was really a representation of The Fallen Angel, and was a vengeful, jealous, egotistical god. i.e. a perfect candidate for the title 'King of this World' - otherwise known as Rex Mundi. (again, relating to the Sumerian text where Humanity was created as a slave race to work for the Anunnaki - the gods who came down to earth)

Third extrapolation:
The Cathar (the last living extension of true Gnosticism) were not into the blood ritual worship in their pursuit of the God of Love.

They were into Amor. They were so into Amor that they didn't even kill to feed themselves. Much like Buddhism, these early Gnostics were true vegetarians. Their beliefs were in stark contrast to the Roman Catholic Church (Empire). In fact, the Cathar believed the Pope was a representative of Rex Mundi. This is the reason the Demonic Draconians (the reptile god depicted throughout history) had the Cathar annihilated.

Fourth extrapolation:
The Templar, on the other hand, were into the blood rituals. Their claim to fame was the slaughter of the Muslim hoards in the Holy Lands. The Templar were contemporaries of the Cathar, both originating in the same geographical area. So, they were also aware of the Gnosis. The Templar were the ones that perverted the understanding (the gnosis) from that of 'Love' to 'Demon Worship' in their centuries-long quest to dominate the world.

These guys were the quintessential expression of demon worship. They still are today. The highest order of Freemasonry is The Order of Knights Templar - an 'honorary' degree of initiation in the Scottish Rite. The highest initiation within the Templar is to be 'Knighted' by the Queen. The Queen and all of her cohorts are into blood rituals, child sacrifice, and demon worship.

Conclusion:
All of this summation is an expression of Gnostic belief regarding the Sophia phenomenon, however it was all 'perverted' when the Cathar were annihilated. They were the last Gnostic tradition to relate the Sophia Goddess to the God of Love, Amor. All the modern extension of Gnostic belief, i.e. Freemasonry, Rosicrucians, Theosophists, etc. all have drifted into the dark side of Good v. Evil.

This is the reason you have all of these contemporary historians giving dissertations on Gnostic belief and relating it to ritual magic, and evoking spirits. The spirits they are evoking are all related to the Draconian Reptiles. The God of Love is out of the picture. He/She/It died with the Cathar....

© observer 2010

This should shed some light on the imagery of the Reptile. It should also allow one to understand that Humanity is nothing more than an extension of two reptilian 'gods' - Enlil and Enki. i.e. two separate and opposite forms of worshiping the same deities, or a classic Malkavian Dialectic.

They are very clever at what they do....

Yes. the problem comes when you get into the ego function aspect in astrology. The point of the horizon where the sun meets the dawn. Known as the ascendant, and the point at which the soul enters the body.

Also Demiter, Ishtar, Isis, Diana. Venus. Goddess of love, the inner self, the inner worlds, closest to the sun. (after mercury, the mind, or Loki being closest to the over-soul, the Sun...or Sol Invictus the ego in astrology.)

War, is mars, outer to the body, external to.

Then we find our quandary.

The descriptor for Lucifer, the angel of the dawn. Ie, the ascendant? The ascendant, in astrology, is the permanent and non-removable (but recognizing it and dealing with it is possible) rose colored glasses' (ego function interference and coloration on all information, bi-directionally) that the individual human sees the world through, both in and out.

Reminds me of the stories of the moon, then you bring in all the moon anomalies....

in Hebrew religion, he involves Venus, in this case, the light of the dawn. The morning Star. Lucifer brings or marks the dawn of the light.

So we seemingly have a direct quandary, don't we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

lunaflare
5th October 2010, 21:05
Yes, Lucifer- the morning star- light-bearer...
Venus, Inanna, Isis, Diana, Ishtar, Columbia, Sophia, Enki (and so forth)...is about worship of the Goddess. The rising sun-star...
She who brings light and thus life.

Freeman gives an informative and well researched explanation of Freemasonry, dragon symbols, Templars, Hollywood, Goddess worship and ritual (http://thefreemanperspective.blogspot.com)

As Sojourner summed up from Observer's varyihng extrapolations ("Gnostic in a Nutshell")...tiz all about intention.

Our electrical impulses (thoughts) create the magic of creating...the art, as it were. and will our intent be to cause harm or not?
The Dark Arts as defined in Harry Potter "culture"...not so good!
Can it be this simple? But how do we know if we do not understand the science, the lore of the ancients....?
It can be so overwhelming
I can understand why the magic is hidden. so powerful. And how responsible are we as human beings? That too is a matter of perspective. One needs to just look at our earth today.

Our mythologies have become distorted due to our collective preference for war, fear and violence. When the shift returns to an honouring of the feminine principal within all beings, all Life...balance will return. Reptiles included.

Reclaiming the morning star to one that does not represent "evil". But, the second sun. The return........

Carrera
8th October 2010, 08:37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4jaUe4TCzU&feature=player_embedded

There is also an article, written on a Norwegian online newspaper (tip: use http://translate.google.com/ if interested in wht they say)

Carrera
8th October 2010, 08:42
Sorry! The link to the online newspaper: http://www.nyhetsspeilet.no/2010/07/skrekk-og-gru-i-viegelands-reptilpark/

heyokah
8th October 2010, 10:16
Thank you, Carrera, for this video. For me it could have lasted much longer.....

I visited the Vigeland Statue Park some years ago and it really fascinated me.

It shows how reptiles have humans in their grip. Even reptiles in human form.
There are also big group-statues of satanic rituals
Impressive morbid statues.

I wonder what Gustav Vigeland knew.......

http://i55.tinypic.com/bejgk.jpg

a Human Obelisk

http://i56.tinypic.com/9vi102.jpg

Man captured in his Wheel of Karma ?????

Carrera
8th October 2010, 11:16
Thank you, Carrera, for this video. For me it could have lasted much longer.....

I visitsed the Vigeland Statue Park some years ago and it really fascinated me.

It shows how reptiles have humans in their grip. Even reptiles in human form.
There are also big group-statues of satanic rituals
Impressive morbid statues.

I wonder what Gustav Vigeland knew.......

http://i55.tinypic.com/bejgk.jpg

a Human Obelisk

Your'e Welcome! It's years since I visited, and long before I was aware of whats going on, and about the reptilian race. But this really makes one think, doesn't it? How far does it all go back, regarding what ppl have been aware of. What the purpose is, is hard to say... And what Vigeland really knew. I'm not sure whether it was his intention or not, really. But they are there....

But its a beautiful park, and one of the most famous "attractions" in Norway. But this really puts another perspective to the attraction....

Ki's
8th October 2010, 12:20
Many of the images depicted of human/reptiles leaves me with the feeling that I need to take my brain out and wash it.

Galaad
16th October 2010, 21:00
I like this one, one of the four 'vertues cardinales' here 'la force' (strenght?):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/DSCN2037.JPG

§=[Post Update]=§

(the right side is missing, but the dragon is 'extracted' from the tower)

hyundisonata
16th October 2010, 22:34
Very strange place .put the title art to something and no one questions it. Itís a true saying that the best place to hide something is out in the open right under peoples noses. Ok this is not about ET or in fact the so called reptilian race even though they used reptiles. This park is dedicated to the occult, Masonic lodge. Hence the thirty three statues in the center of the park, you have thirty two surrounding the one. Look at an Ariel view of the park itís quite impressive. They give the impression it is mans fight against evil but in reality it is evils dominance over man hence the pedophilia and bestiality .the whole thing is nothing but a Masonic temple .Norway is a new world order stronghold that is why they have built arks there, in other words it stinks to high heavens. But donít confuse it with ET folks. By the way its proper name is Frogner Park.

Steven
17th October 2010, 12:53
...This park is dedicated to the occult, Masonic lodge. Hence the thirty three statues in the center of the park, you have thirty two surrounding the one. Look at an Ariel view of the park itís quite impressive. They give the impression it is mans fight against evil but in reality it is evils dominance over man hence the pedophilia and bestiality .the whole thing is nothing but a Masonic temple .Norway is a new world order stronghold that is why they have built arks there, in other words it stinks to high heavens. But donít confuse it with ET folks. By the way its proper name is Frogner Park.

Thanks for the information! It wouldn't surprises me much indeed. I'll look further into Frogner Park. So, if it is indeed a freemason park, it makes a connection between freemason and the secret intervention of a reptile group on Earth. It would corroborate Credo Mutwa's and David Icke's testemony.

Namaste, Steven

Carrera
17th October 2010, 13:41
Very strange place .put the title art to something and no one questions it. It’s a true saying that the best place to hide something is out in the open right under peoples noses. Ok this is not about ET or in fact the so called reptilian race even though they used reptiles. This park is dedicated to the occult, Masonic lodge. Hence the thirty three statues in the center of the park, you have thirty two surrounding the one. Look at an Ariel view of the park it’s quite impressive. They give the impression it is mans fight against evil but in reality it is evils dominance over man hence the pedophilia and bestiality .the whole thing is nothing but a Masonic temple .Norway is a new world order stronghold that is why they have built arks there, in other words it stinks to high heavens. But don’t confuse it with ET folks. By the way its proper name is Frogner Park.

Its actually called both "Vigelandsparken" and "Frognerparken". Most people who lives in Oslo calls it Frognerparken. I'm not sure if its due to the large Park at a place called Frogner in Oslo, with Vigelands sculptures within the middle of it. I would suggest its a "park within a park"....

Carrera
17th October 2010, 13:45
Some more pictures from the park: http://maps.google.no/maps?client=opera&rls=nb&q=kart+over+oslo&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Oslo&gl=no&ei=cvu6TKZMx4Q6ubrolw0&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

Carrera
17th October 2010, 14:09
There is also a Vigeland museum (which I've never been to, now its closed due to renovation.) http://www.vigeland.museum.no/en

noxon medem
17th December 2010, 16:05
this is just indirectly relate, but is on the theme of the art of time and motion.
here a dead reptile being devoured by the ants. interesting viewing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Mt2E1M6dU&NR=1&feature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Mt2E1M6dU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

made by time-lapse technique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-lapse

heyokah
17th December 2010, 16:22
noxon medem,
now I know that my Mediterranean house geckos, that are always in and around my house in France, serve a good purpose when they're dead :)
Ants enough around the house as well ....

Beautiful video.
A real piece of art indeed.

Thanks !

plumr2007
30th January 2011, 19:38
That lizard should have had better insurance.